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Rad Community Non-Technical Discussion Boards >> The Water Cooler >> QUAGMIRE: Is Iraq a new Vietnam or ... http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1096165746 Message started by El_Pescador on Sep 25th, 2004 at 11:29pm |
Title: QUAGMIRE: Is Iraq a new Vietnam or ... Post by El_Pescador on Sep 25th, 2004 at 11:29pm
[glb]QUAGMIRE: Is Iraq a new Vietnam or is it another Guadalcanal ???[/glb]
Quote:
[glb]El Pescador[/glb] |
Title: Re: QUAGMIRE: Is Iraq a new Vietnam or ... Post by thorin on Sep 26th, 2004 at 2:00am
Unfortunaltely your one step above a major is incorrect; I wish he were correct. Iraq is Nam all over again. We sent troops into Nam without a defined purpose, the general populace of Nam did not want us there - just the people we put into power (sound like somebody who visited the States last week?).
El Pescador, I wish your beliefs were correct, but I don't believe they are. |
Title: Re: QUAGMIRE: Is Iraq a new Vietnam or ... Post by El_Pescador on Sep 26th, 2004 at 3:17am Quote:
I do ask that you mull over this: In the closing years of the Civil war, William Tecumseh Sherman was literally considered a madman in every sense of the word - there were even efforts afoot to have him relieved of duty and confined to an asylum. In fact, he turned out to be the visionary who convinced Ulysses Simpson Grant of a revolution in military affairs (railroads, steamboats, rifled muskets/cannon, et cetera) that impelled the Union Army to adopt Draconian tactics to demolish the very industrial, agricultural and economic infrastructure of the Confederacy in contravention of all accepted rules of warfare of the day. Therefore, my contention is that those advisers of Dubya labeled as 'neocons' or the like are one of two things - either they are utter madmen, or they are visionaries working so far out in front of the curve no one will appreciate them for a generation or more. After all, Sherman was never fully accorded his due until this day. [glb]El Pescador[/glb] |
Title: Re: QUAGMIRE: Is Iraq a new Vietnam or ... Post by Karin on Oct 4th, 2004 at 8:58am
Before going into military history read this guy
and than you know the neocon are conman. http://antiwar.com/lind/ |
Title: Re: QUAGMIRE: Is Iraq a new Vietnam or ... Post by El_Pescador on Oct 4th, 2004 at 10:51am Quote:
Both he and I are great admirers of Genghis John (the late and sorely missed John R. Boyd). How did you run across hime (I saw my first reference to him in Air Force Magazine right after 9/11 and have followed his commentary ever since)? In all seriousness, what are your thoughts on improving the situation in Iraq and the Middle East? [glb]El Pescador[/glb] |
Title: Re: QUAGMIRE: Is Iraq a new Vietnam or ... Post by thorin on Oct 4th, 2004 at 6:31pm
AT6 (SNJ) driver,
I believe your bringing up Sherman's advisors, and comparing them to shrub's misses all marks - I am not sure why you brought it up (possibly to obfuscate the obvious)! But as to you request for an exit strategy - the same one we ended up using in nam should work fine - just get out. We are going to do that sooner or later; so, why not do it before more innocents - both American or Iraqi - have to die? I realize I am taking as a given that we cannot do in Iraq what we could not do in nam, but if you wish to use history as a guide, then it appears I will be correct. Oh well, the war got shrub's poll numbers up and the 2004 election is his to loose, but if he would promise to get out during the 1st year of his 2nd term, I would vote for him - not that my vote would make any difference here in Texas. |
Title: Re: QUAGMIRE: Is Iraq a new Vietnam or ... Post by El_Pescador on Oct 4th, 2004 at 8:43pm Quote:
Quote:
Now we face the chronic prospect of a global struggle liable to extend over generations that could ultimately turn out to be the most disruptive conflict in human history from the standpoint of economic, cultural and scientific progress. My personal opinion is that until one has read - and comprehended - Thomas L. Friedman's "The Lexus and the Olive Tree", the actual nature of this struggle cannot be appreciated to any meaningful degree. [glb]El Pescador[/glb] P.S. Congratulations on your sharp eye; that is a 1941 North American AT-6 in SNJ livery; it is used as a jitney by the only female gypsy barnstormer extant. She has another that is a 1946 model, plus a Boeing Stearman done up like the old original "Yellow Peril". As an aside, I am informed through backchannels that the National Museum of Naval Aviation at NAS Pensacola was virtually devastated - much worse than the "official" news releases indicate. |
Title: Re: QUAGMIRE: Is Iraq a new Vietnam or ... Post by thorin on Oct 4th, 2004 at 9:46pm
Lifer in CAF - had not heard about Pensacola - did not get to see it, but have heard it was an outstanding collection.
Viet Nam era vet - served my 3 years in London where the most dangerous mission I had was driving on the correct side of the road after coming out of a pub. You and I will never agree on this general subject (part of what makes America great), but I do disagree with the original light col's assessment of the present conflict; comparing it to WW II is, in my mind, a complete traversity of what WW II was and still means to this Country. |
Title: Re: QUAGMIRE: Is Iraq a new Vietnam or ... Post by El_Pescador on Oct 5th, 2004 at 1:14am Quote:
http://www.cfcforums.com/vbindex.php Quote:
I spent 4 days and 3 nights in late summer of 2002 surrounded by survivors of the four battallions of WWII Marine Raiders at their annual reunion held that year in New Orleans. They were our nation's first SpecOps unit - some actually fighting on Guadalcanal/Tulagi - and all somewhere in the Solomons Chain early in the war. Later on, many wound up in the Sixth Marine Division on Okinawa after the Raiders were piecemealed. During the 'bull sessions' in the Hospitality Room, the consensus was that Western society will eventually face the gravest of threats in the GWOT, albeit a 'twilight struggle'. [glb]El Pescador[/glb] P.S. Here are a couple of Marine aviators (Joe Foss and Jeff DeBlanc) photographed on Pearl Harbor Day, 2001 prior to a parade and dedication ceremony celebrating the opening of the Pacific Wing of the National D-Day Museum in New Orleans: http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/176/176523/folders/128376/1256915CutOutMCc.jpg |
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