I DO apologize for this intrusion, but this is my last resort, after Dell’s “specialists” supported me so…
First, I will clarify that since purchase (Mid-March 2004) my Dell Dimension 8300 (P4@3ghz/1gbRAM;120gbHDD; XP home) has been kept carefully as a stand-alone system, not networked, even for the Internet I have been using my old workhorse Dell Dim 4100 = both in their ORIGINAL hardware configuration. Norton Antivirus has been regularly updated by a CD download (their latest file size is less than 6mb). Windows XP Home has been updated via MS’s free distribution CD Service Pack 2. All additional Software Programs have been installed in partitions separate from the C:\ (OSystem) which have been successfully created with PQ Partition Magic8.  No games have been installed on this machine, nor music nor any substantial data burden is littering the HDDrive, for I use it for heavy duty graphical work only, saving to CDs and DVDs. Of course I am keeping all original CDs and manuals that came with the system and am optimistic that in this first instance of Call For Help with your good advice I will be able to get it up and running once again.
The crash occurred the other day when I decided to make a Norton Ghost Image of C:\ Partition (or was the whole HDD? I don’t remember; neither if I was running it from the CD -which is possible - or have installed it -which is more probable) The 2003 version of NSW (Norton System Works) has been reviewed as working flawlessly from within Windows (XP included, for it handles NTFS File System too). I used to be more familiar with the 2002 Version of Ghost which was far more tricky to use; so I was happy to purchase NSW2003 as a step forward and before I applied it to my precious Dim8300 I made successfully a Ghost Image on 10 CDs of the whole HDDrive of my Dim 4100 and restored the image to and old junk HDDrive on a salvaged Gateway Performance 1000. With such experience (and before that with Ghost2002 running from a Floppy I tried to ghost an image of Dim8300 to 3 DVDs but this image fails to decompress: “Abort = 27076, corrupt packet length in compressed .IMG file”) I felt encouraged to try to image it again, with 2003, from the PC DOS (not the MS DOS) interface, as recommended on some forums. The system froze at Ghost’s initial proprietary full screen GUI interface = blue textured background only, without the BUTTONS, even without the “Quit” exit button. Neither reacts to Ctrl+Alt+Del to reset. In the absence of a Reset button on the Dim8300 the only thing to do is switch OFF button. It freezes again and again at every start-up with their long scroll “loading PC DOS ... “ etc. to the options “The previous operation has failed. Please enter the number of the action you wish to take: [1] Exit to Dos. [2] Return to Windows. [3] Retry the operation.” Then, in a few seconds: “Returning to Windows ...” and remains there forever, frozen.
My BIOS is set to boot from: 1.FDD; 2.CD ROM D; 3. HDD. So, I tried the two floppies that PowerQuest Partition Magic 8 recommends to make for a boot-up problems; and usually they really show all partitions and one can set a partition “ACTIVE” ans so on, really useful as such. But this time the response was “Partition table error # 113 found” with the only option the button for “Exit” after which comes the blinking DOS prompt for A:\>_.
I left it at that, afraid to damage other things. Haven’t tried the supplied by you MS WinXPHome+SP1 reinstallation CD for the two reasons: first, I hear MS have what they call “Activation” which is humiliating; second, my carefully customized WinXP with all software will probably get messed-up with a clean install...  Of course the useless MS Windows Rescue FDisks lead to clean install: “Load the original WindowsXP installation CD in drive ...” which I am not prepared to do ... yet. With the legendary Dell support I still hope that someone will think of a more clever way to get me out of this trouble. Please, PLEASE, take your time and advise me competently, I will appreciate this a lot. Thanks, best regards, Peter.

Go on the Internet and Google 'Windows XP repair installation' or some such.  When you attempt it, beware of a 'false start'; you won't hurt anything, but you won't accomplish anything either.

I had to do this years back right when I began using XP Home Edition on my Dell Dimension 8100 - and my recollection is quite hazy (my latest PC is a Dell Dimension 8300 running XP Professional).  At any rate, the process does not overwrite anything but the O.S. - then, you have go back to perform your updates with the Service Pack 2 CD.

Don't fret - it won't be long before someone comes along who is totally conversant with the Windows XP Repair Installation.  All I recall about it is that the correct procedure to follow is counter-intuitive to my dyslexic thought processes.

[glb]El Pescador[/glb]

peter s. d.

It's not clear--did you install Ghost onto the system?  And did you run Ghost using the Windows interface to set Ghost up and then start the Ghost procedure?

If 'yes', then sounds like you may be 'trapped' in the virtual partition that Ghost 2003 creates if you run it from the Windows interface rather than from a DOS boot floppy.

See here:

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/ghost.nsf/8f7dc138830563c888256c2200662ecd/bd9808f917bba85b88256c64007dd58b?

and here:

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/ghost.nsf/docid/2002102214015625?

and here:

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/ghost.nsf/docid/2002092510522725?

and the various links in those FAQ's.

Let us know if this seems to be the problem and if it helps.

Last night in a haste I posted the first part of my lenghty saga for brevity (the Forum refused to take the whole). To that description I got from Dell Tech Support the clever suggestion to try 1. to start WinXPh in SAFE MODE (?!thx) or to 2. Reinstall Win. To that I replied: " F8 doesn’t even bring the BIOS, the state of the system is such that it freezes at the screen with the 3 options (described above) 1.exit to DOS 2. return to Windows and 3. retry the operation. At option 2 the system freezes with “Returning to W…” At the bottom of this (DOS) screen with those 3 options I read (I omitted for brevity this the first time for it comes to the same point): F5=Bypass startup files; F8=Confirm each step of Config.sys and Autoexec.bat >>>then it comes to the same point “Returning to Windows …” and remains there, frozen.
Actually I tried to explore within while in DOS; C:\>_     dir gives me one page scroll with ibmbio.com; ibmdos.com; e.exe; e.ex; e.ini; ehelp.hlp; mouse.com; aspicd.sys; oakcdrom.sys; mscdex.exe; autoexec.bat; config.sys; mbr.bin; mouse.ini AND ONE single Directory GHOST <DIR> containing some .exe files: ghreboot; ghost; gdisk; ghstwalk; ghwrap and 2 .txt files: gscript and args.txt. However in DOS I am not trying anything afraid of further damage." The response from (another) Dell "specialist" was to show me the door, to go ask MS or Symantec .... while I paid my good money to Dell.
I highly appreciate your prompt responses and no, I will not fret, I will have all the patience to wait and read through all your replies and try everything. Pete.

peter s. d.


Quote:

AND ONE single Directory GHOST <DIR> containing some .exe files: ghreboot; ghost; gdisk; ghstwalk; ghwrap and 2 .txt files: gscript and args.txt.

I'm pretty sure you're stuck in Ghost's 'virtual partition' based on your additional information.  In the links above it talks about using the 'ghreboot' program and that appears to be in the directory above.  Sounds like you are able to navigate to that directory and list the contents--should be able to run the program once there to see if that lets you out of the 'virtual partition' and back to Windows' partition.

Night Owl, your response seems to be quite to the point. I saved the articles, will print them now and read carefully and report back. Yes, it seems I am "trapped" in the virtual partition; and yes, I installed the Ghost 2003 in Windows and tried ghosting through PC DOS ... will see now. Good day.

peter s. d. -

When you have successfully squared things away, please share details of how you did it.  Such will add to the Knowledge Base of these forums.

[glb]El Pescador[/glb]

Yep, XPh is up and running again, smoothly and sweetly as if nothing happened = thanks to NightOwl and his diagnostic competence which the dummies on Dell's payroll lack. The key is =exactly as you, NightOwl indicated = the ghreboot.exe file which clears the Ghost Virtual Partition and reactivates the WinXPhome partition. No harm done at all, all settings are OK. Checked with (the installed previously) PQuest PartitionMagic 8 the partitions of my 120g HDD = all seems fine there, though at the freezing point their 2 boot-up floppies were reporting partition errors. Now it's OK. Thank you, people, your form is the greatest! Pete S. D.

peter s. d.

Good to hear everything's okay.

I got trapped in the virtual partition too awhile back.  But it was before I read about the ghreboot program.

My PartitionMagic v8.xx also did not work--I got an error message too (cant remember which one), and the program exited to the DOS prompt.

But I tried my old PartitionMagic v4.xx DOS rescue disk and although it reported an error, it still booted up and allowed my to switch the active partitiion back to the OS partition.

Since then, I found the information about ghreboot.

Ghost must create a 'non-standard' partition for its virtual partition that PartitionMagic v8.xx can not properly handle.

Congrats on the succesful resolution.

As I learn things on Ghost, this appears to be a classical user error which leads to "irreversible drive corruption," often mentioned on Ghost user reviews, and resulting in an unexperienced user reformatting the drive. I guess people are spoiled by plug-and-play (i guess it is a good thing though).

Ideally, the boot problem should not happen, but when it does, the user should explore the Symantec support site, where the problem is described in details. Calling hardware vendor support is pointless since they are not trained on Symanthec software.
It is a good thing that peter stumled on this site.

Radified rockes!

I spent some more time on the Symantec site and perused the support documents.  Clearly, one should read these documents BEFORE using ghost.  

Symanthec acctually admitts that:
"Ghost terminology can be confusing. For an introduction to terms such as cloning, imaging, loading, and dumping, see the section "Other terms""

Also:
"Ghost Virtual Partition
The Virtual Partition nearly eliminates the need to create a Ghost bootable floppy disk."  
Nearly, huh-ha, ha, ha

And:
"Ability to save image files to NTFS partitions [...]
Norton Ghost 2003 has been written to be able to access NTFS partitions to save image files, and to restore disks or partitions from image files.
Note, though, that Ghost can save only image files to local NTFS partitions, and not other types of files."  
So, the default operation with log files in addition to image files IS NOT compatible with NTSF.

Look also at this hidden deep in troubleshooting:
"Disconnect other USB devices that are connected to the computer. Because of the way the BIOS enables USB ports and the way these devices are detected by the USB drivers that Ghost uses, any additional USB devices may cause conflicts."
Wow, who doesn't use other USB devices?  I guess the USB keyboard/mouse is a recipe for disaster with Ghost.

jacek


Quote:

any additional USB devices may cause conflicts

The key word is 'may'.  I leave my USB flash card reader with four separate ports hooked up, and my built-in USB hub on my monitor which has a monitor adjustment sub-system, and the USB scanner hooked up without problems.  But every system is different.


Quote:

I guess the USB keyboard/mouse is a recipe for disaster with Ghost.

They can be--there have been posts to that effect here in the past.  Interestingly, one person posted that if he used 'USB peer-to-peer' support on a Ghost boot floppy, he was able to get USB mouse support working fine.  (And, later, I actually saw--I think in the User Guide somewhere--where Symantec mentioned that this might be true for some systems.)

[glb]USB mouse or keyboard got you down, Bunkie ???[/glb]
Well, here is one remedy in an admittedly narrow circumstance - consider it a clue and then follow up on it.  When I wish to retain use of my USB keyboard while forcing USB 2.0 operations using a twin-floppy set of NightOwl's Panasonic Universal USB Driver, I add an extra option to one of his lines in the config.sys file - voila':

DEVICE = Usbaspi.sys /norst /v /w /e

As I understand it, '/norst' means 'No reset', i.e., the legacy USB devices are exempted from the '/e' option which is forcing the USB 2.0 mode.

[glb]El Pescador[/glb]

El_Pescador


Quote:

DEVICE = Usbaspi.sys /norst /v /w /e

Oh, good one!

Did you discover that by trial and error on your own, or is there a source that explains the use of '/norst' for the Panasonic driver?

I do not have a USB keyboard or mouse, so I can't test this, but can you use the '/u' or '/o' switches to keep the USB keyboard (or mouse) functioning?  Do you have to disable 'legacy' USB support in order to use those switches?  And if you use them with the '/e' switch, does your USB 2.0 HDD still run at 2.0 speeds?

/e EHCI, for enabling only USB 2.0 controller
/o OHCI, for enabling only add-on/onboard USB 1.1 controller
/u UHCI, for enabling integrated USB 1.1 controller

NightOwl -

I cannot recall the exact source, but I picked up on it while doing Google searches on 'usbaspi.sys + di1000dd.sys'.  While mulling over your inquiry, I found something for you at Response Number 13 pretty far down the thread at:

http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/13447.html


Quote:

"... And if you use them with the '/e' switch, does your USB 2.0 HDD still run at 2.0 speeds?"

Actually, my USB keyboard always works no matter what - despite all the Ghost warnings about it not being kosher.  It works flawlessly with the settings illustrated in my post upstream - and USB 2.0 speeds are consistently demonstated with a single exception involving my ByteccUSA enclosure and the systemboard USB 2.0 ports on my Dell Dimension 8300.  

[glb]El Pescador[/glb]

NightOwl, since all the credits for solving my Prob are yours; and since you seem to be radINSIDER, while I am just a guest (stiil) may I suggest an ammendment to Rad Ghost Guide (specifically on page 11 of 21.pdf = top of page) be added for such an ordinary case as mine. (Wording should be edited, though, my English is not the best): "Ghosting an image of a HDD with (manufacturer's) diagnostic Primary Partition must be done not from Windows, but from a bootable Floppy disk, formatted with MS DOS (and NOT with PC DOS) = thus avoiding at all costs the Virtual Partition of Ghost" Then, another issue I have stumbled before that -again to do with Virtual Partition- is that this VPartition is Primary; and since a HDD cannot have more than 4 Primary Partitions, the user must be aware to have no more than 3 Primary partitions, or get an error message.
I am still trying to Ghost the abovementioned HDD (or at least the OS Partition C:\) and keep getting "write errors", though... tried various CD Brands media, tried with or without compression, tried to cool down the system till the morning = the same, errors at the 3rd to 6th CD, such a waste...

peter s. d.


Quote:

and since you seem to be radINSIDER

Actually, my 'Official Rad Warrior' designation means I'm an overactive forum poster  ;) --but I can not claim so much to be an 'Insider'.  But, as a personal interest, I've tried to learn as much as I can about Ghost, and I enjoy problem solving.


Quote:

"Ghosting an image of a HDD with (manufacturer's) diagnostic Primary Partition must be done not from Windows, but from a bootable Floppy disk, formatted with MS DOS (and NOT with PC DOS) = thus avoiding at all costs the Virtual Partition of Ghost"

Part of the problem of making that a 'global' recommendation is that these problems do not effect everyone equally--some people are effected, but actually--most are not effected by these problems--so it's hard to make a hard and fast rule.  But it certainly is not a bad recommendation.

I suspect this suggestion is coming from the Symantec FAQ:

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/ghost.nsf/docid/2002092510522725?

If you read through that FAQ, there are a number of different possible reasons why Ghost might fail--not just a 'Diagnositic Partition' or using 'PC-DOS'--it could be incompatibility with your optical drive.  

Now that you know how to recover from the problem--you could test to see if it is the optical drive--with the system shut down, disconnect the IDE communication cable from the optical drive, reboot to Windows, and try to perform a Ghost backup of a small partition to another partition on the HDD, and see if Ghost successfully can do the operation using the virtual partition.

However, I'm suspecting that the 'Diagnostic Partition' may be a non-standard partition, which the FAQ says may mess Ghost up when using the virtual partition.  I'm curious--does PartitionMagic indicate that 'Diagnostic Partition' is in some way different from the other partitions?

Will Ghost let you create an image of the 'Diagnostic Partition' and save it to the HDD?  And if 'yes', does the image pass an integrity check?  If 'yes' again, you could consider trying to delete the 'Diagnostic Partition' and leave the disk space as 'unallocated' disk space, and now see if Ghost can successfully use the virtual partition in a Ghosting operation.  (Don't do the above if you are not reasonably sure the Ghost image is good, and you want to be able to restore the 'Diagnostic Partition', or you do not care if the 'Diagnostic Partition' might be lost.)


Quote:

I am still trying to Ghost the abovementioned HDD (or at least the OS Partition C:\) and keep getting "write errors", though... tried various CD Brands media, tried with or without compression, tried to cool down the system till the morning = the same, errors at the 3rd to 6th CD, such a waste...

This makes me think that the above suggestion that there is a possible compatibility problem with your optical drive even more possible.

Couple different things...

1.  Whenever I see the problem you mention above, it almost always means there some compatibility issue between Ghost and the optical drive.

2.  Ghost 2003's last update was somewhere around Dec., 2003, and Jan., 2004--you stated your system was new in Mar., 2004--so Ghost's most recent update may not include compatibilty with your hardware.

3.  You also say you have never connected your system to the Internet--so if you are using the Ghost.exe from the purchased CD for NortonSystemworks, then your version is older than the last update.  If you had the most recent update, Ghost might work okay with your hardware.

My updated most recent Ghost version is:

C:\>ghost -ver
Norton Ghost 2003 (build=793, cdrlib=3.1.25)
Copyright (C) 1998-2003 Symantec Corp. All rights reserved.

You can check your version this way:


Quote:

To find the version number of Ghost.exe: Click Start > Programs > MS-DOS prompt. Change to the directory that has the file Ghost.exe. Type: Ghost.exe -ver This displays a line similar to: NORTON Ghost version 6.01 (build=58 )

If you do not wish to connect your system to the Internet and use Nortons 'LiveUpdate', you could install Ghost on your other computer that you do connect to the Internet with, use LiveUpdate' to get Ghost updated to the most current version.   And then copy that Ghost.exe over to your other computer--deleting or overwriting the older version.

(Added 12/06/04:  Remember, if you update your Ghost.exe program, it's best to update you Ghost boot disks too so you're using the same version of Ghost throughout.)

4.  If you're having problems with Ghosting to optical media, try to use re-writeable media, if possible, until you get the problems corrected--so you can erase the old media and re-use to try again--to reduce waste  ;) .

nOwl, as always, i am impressed by ur competence; and frankly, i will have difficulty to follow with my English and slow speed. For the time being i will answer only the easiest issue: the diagnostic partition is indeed different (pqPM8 says): it is a different colour, being FAT (non 32); it is tiny; it is located at the very beginning of the HDD; and it is Primary. And yes, I will try and report back to image to the HDD and not to the DVD burner. I don't think I can use RW media to rewrite / reduce wastage unless I format the media first (be it CD or DVD) and that seems to be an issue with Ghost, no? Thx, best rgds, i love yr forum = and you are not even a Moderator or a VIP?

peter s. d.


Quote:

(pqPM8 says): it is a different colour, being FAT (non 32); it is tiny; it is located at the very beginning of the HDD; and it is Primary

It's probably FAT16--and the information seems normal--so probably not non-standard.


Quote:

I don't think I can use RW media to rewrite / reduce wastage unless I format the media first (be it CD or DVD) and that seems to be an issue with Ghost, no?

Actually, no you do not have to format the media first--Ghost takes care of all that, and will ask if it's okay to erase the data if you have already used the media before--of course, that's assuming Ghost and your optical drive work together properly.  But, yes, Ghost may have a problem using a disk that's formated first, if the formating is a file system Ghost can not work with.

But I have made Ghost image files to CD-RW's and reused them, either by having Ghost erase the disk when creating a new image file, or by using the disk tool in Roxio to first erase the disk before reusing it.

And, if it turns out that Ghost can not write an image directly to your optical drive, you still have the option of creating an image of the partition to the HDD using the '-split' command to control the size of each file in the image, then burning the image file(s) to the CD or DVD media for backup.  

Be aware that if Ghost does not burn the image files directly to the optical media, you need to use the boot disk(s) with CD/DVD support so drive letters are assigned to your optical drive(s)--otherwise, Ghost's standard boot disk will say the image files are not Ghost files and can not be read!

Great idea, i will try that (not tonight and not tomorrow...) Briefly, now, i will return to the diagn. part. i see i have omitted that pqPM8 tells me that it is HIDDEN. however i made (and verified) an image of it to another empty partition then deleted the original, who cares. the same done with the OS partition C:\; and the same with the partition P:\ where i install all my programs. all got verified. all this with the dvd rw drive disconnected as per ur advice. now i have a few (uncompressed) images of some 2g each (how does ghost know at what size to cut the spans if user cannot specify if it is a CD or DVD span???) and i wonder how to get those out of the HDD (partition)? tried to open the dim8300 and that was really tricky; then the 120g HDD inside is not connected to IDE via the usual ribbon but some strange cable from the mboard. so my attempt to connect a slave hdd miserably failed. (the idea was to ghost from image to slave hdd) so, there. see u wednesday. thx, a real pleasure to communicate. no paypal, really? all dell (and gates too) know is ask for money...

almost forgot: my version of ghost is exactly like yours, as described. again i am impressed by ur ability to focus on specifics. the dim8300 gets connected to the internet, once in a blue moon. so, there...

Quote:

"...tried to open the dim8300 and that was really tricky; then the 120g HDD inside is not connected to IDE via the usual ribbon but some strange cable from the mboard. so my attempt to connect a slave hdd miserably failed... peter s. d.

The latest Dell 8400 series are using the SATA HDD connection rather than the broad-ribbon EIDE/ATA type.  If you have one SATA port on your systemboard, then you surely have two - but if your spare HDDs are all EIDE/ATA, I am at a loss.

[glb]El Pescador[/glb]

peter s. d.

Okay, it sounds like you are making Ghost images successfully, but you did not mention if you're using the Windows interface (and the virtual partition), or if you're using the Ghost DOS boot floppys.

And, you said you have disconnected the optical drive, and deleted the diagnostic partition--but, did you determine if it's one or the other (or both) that's causing the original problem you were having?

Added later:  

Ah--I think I answered my own question--

Quote:

however i made (and verified) an image of it (the diagnostic partition) to another empty partition then deleted the original,

Sounds like you must have disconnected the optical drive first, then made the image of the diagnostic partition--was that using the Windows interface and the virtual partition?  If yes, then it's probably the optical drive that's the problem--not the diagnostic partition.

Have you tried using the Standard Ghost Boot Disk floppy to see if Ghost will load successfully from the floppy and not freeze when the optical drive is still connected?  I suspect that if Ghost freezes when you reboot to the virtual partition and it's because your optical drive is not compatible, then there is a likelyhood that it will do the same from the boot floppy as well.  

If Ghost will not work with the optical drive still connected, then it's going to be inconvenient to have to constantly disconnect and re-connect the optical drive in order to use Ghost--and then transfer the images to the optical media.


Quote:

i will return to the diagn. part. i see i have omitted that pqPM8 tells me that it is HIDDEN

That's okay, it should be HIDDEN unless you need to use it.


Quote:

and the same with the partition P:\

Wow--lots of partitions!


Quote:

some 2g each (how does ghost know at what size to cut the spans if user cannot specify if it is a CD or DVD span) and i wonder how to get those out of the HDD (partition)?

Ghost will make the files the maximum size of approx. 2 GB each--the DOS limit--and the last file smaller if there's anything left over at the end, by default if saving to the HDD.

How to control the size of the files saved to the HDD depends on whether you're starting Ghost from the Windows interface, or booting from the boot floppys.

If it's from the boot floppys, and Ghost is automatically started, then you have to quit Ghost, and at the DOS prompt you have to restart Ghost with the ' -split=x' switch by typing:

'Ghost -split=650' without the quote marks (and that's a space between Ghost and the -split)--the 650 can be whatever size you want, 600, 630, 680, or whatever up to 2048--whatever will fit on the optical media you're using.

If you're using the Windows Ghost interface, then when you reach the point where it offers you 'Advanced settings...', you will want to select that and then the 'Ghost Command Line' tab.  That's where you would type '-split=650' or whatever size you want.


Quote:

then the 120g HDD inside is not connected to IDE via the usual ribbon but some strange cable from the mboard

Sounds like a 'Serial' cable, i.e. SATA (Serial ATA), but most motherboards have one or more IDE controllers as well as the SATA controller, but you may have to buy a cable--or, your optical drive is probably connected to the IDE controller--should be an extra connector on that cable unless it's connected to an additional optical drive.


Quote:

my version of ghost is exactly like yours, ...the dim8300 gets connected to the internet, once in a blue moon

Then, you must have used live update!--unfortunately, sounds like it did not help with making the optical drive work successfully with Ghost.

Ultimately, you may want to consider a different optical drive--I have had good results with the Plextor line of CD-RW's and DVD optical writers.


Quote:

and i wonder how to get those out of the HDD (partition)?

 

Not sure what you mean--explain.

Hi there NightOwl. It appears you certainly know your stuff about norton ghost. I was wondering if you could give me a hand?

I am also experiencing the same problem as peter, however mine is a little more indepth now. Before reading symantics FAQ i deleted the ghost partition via the Windows XP Setup CD. Now when the PC tries boot into windows, I get a message saying - "reboot and select proper boot device".

For a more detailed description of my problem, please see the below link. I really don't want to have to format my PC. Please assist.

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=446323

I just realised you need to be registered on overclockers to view their forum. So here is my post from their forum below. Thanks for your help. - Scott

"I tried to run Ghost 2003 to ghost the system drive to another partition on the same disk. The system restarted... And never finished (it got stuck).

After a while I restarted the computer, but it kept running the Dos 7 version on a new C ghost system drive , the former windows drive being sent to Q. Impossible to restart windows, using the ghost utilities, or even access my other drives from the C drive.

Using the windows disk, I got back to recovery console on Q, and ERASED THE SYSTEM PARTITION, aiming at restating the windows drive as system partition. After this, the Q windows drive went back to C:.

But now when the computer boots, it says "reboot and select proper boot device".

Using the windows disk and the console, I runned both fixboot and fdisk/mbr. These both didn't fix the problems. I am really out of ideas and not keen on formatting. Your help would be great. Thanks"

Scott Hammo

From you description--it sounds like you were *trapped* in Ghost 2003's *virtual partition* that is created when using the Windows based Ghost interface.


Quote:

Impossible to restart windows, using the ghost utilities, or even access my other drives from the C drive.

It's unclear what you mean by *... using the ghost utilities...*, but here's some references that could help recovering from being trapped in the *virtual partition*:

How to use GhReboot

Cannot start Windows after starting a Ghost 2003 task from Windows

How to restart the computer into Windows if a problem is encountered after running Ghost 2003


Quote:

Using the windows disk, I got back to recovery console on Q, and ERASED THE SYSTEM PARTITION, aiming at restating the windows drive as system partition. After this, the Q windows drive went back to C:.

At this point, I'm not sure of what all you have done and altered on the system--the above recovery suggestions may not work if you have deleted the *virtual partition*.

Are you able to determine if the C:\ partition is set as the *active* boot partition?

Also, if you can create an *Emergency boot floppy disk*, and can successfully boot to you WinXP--this might give you added troubleshooting options:

How to use System files to create a boot disk to guard against being unable to start Windows XP

Hi NightOwl

It definetly does sound like I was having the same problem has peter. Only problem with me is that I deleted the Ghost Partition via the Windows XP CD before reading the troubleshooting guide provided in this thread on this forum.

Id say that you would be correct, those troubleshooting links for Ghost will most probably no longer work as I have deleted the ghost partition via Windows XP Boot CD.

I am able to see the partition left over if I boot off the Windows XP CD, it says "C: Partition1 (LocalDrive) [NTFS] 76309MB (38433 MB free)

Not too sure why it won't boot off it when starting up though. Its weird.

I did take a look at the Microsoft link you supplied me, however, it says to locate the boot.ini file and 2 other files. I am unable to access my PC and therefore unable to copy this files to floppy. I did take a look for these files on another PC in my household, but I couldn't locate the boot.ini file. I tried seraching for it via the Windows search utility but no luck. I could locate the other 2 files though.

I am now sort of out of ideas, and afraid I might need to format. Thanks for your assistance, any more ideas would be great.

Scott Hamilton


Quote:

I am now sort of out of ideas, and afraid I might need to format.

Need to be willing to *fight* a little harder than this--if there's reason to want to recover your system and there's data you do not want to loose!  Formatting is/should be the solution of last resort!

And, if you're willing to do that--well, then you should be willing to try all sorts of things to see if they work--because you have already written off worrying about *safe* recovery!


Quote:

those troubleshooting links for Ghost will most probably no longer work as I have deleted the ghost partition via Windows XP Boot CD

But, I would try *GhReboot* to see if it can still recover the system--yes, it *may not work*--but, *it may*!


Quote:

Not too sure why it won't boot off it when starting up though.

When Ghost set up the *Virtual Partition*, it alters the Master Boot Record* so the boot partition that is *active* is the *Virtual Partition*.  You need a *tool* like PartitionMagic that you can run from DOS to look at the status of the C:\ partition to see if it's *active*--I suspect it's not--and then change it to *active*.


Quote:

I did take a look for these files on another PC in my household, but I couldn't locate the boot.ini file. I tried seraching for it via the Windows search utility but no luck. I could locate the other 2 files though.

You need a WinXP system, and you need to have the system set up to show *all files*.  Open Windows Explorer, select *Tools/Folder Options...*:

http://nightowl.radified.com/forumimages/folderoptions.JPG


http://nightowl.radified.com/forumimages/Viewallfiles.JPG


You can create a *generic* boot.ini--open Notepad, copy and paste the lines below, and save the file as *boot.ini*:


[boot loader]
timeout=10
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /SOS


If your OS is on a partition other than the first one, you have to change the *partition(1)* to *partition(2)* or *partition(3)* .

I've made three boot floppys, one for each of the possible partition options above, so if one doesn't work, I try the other.

Also, you may want to consider trying the *Recovery Console*.  There are two commands that might help--*fixboot* and *fixmbr*:

Description of the Windows XP Recovery Console

I think the best first step is to determine if your OS partition is set as *active*:

The computer does not start after you change the active partition

Scott Hamilton

Here's a possible tool to view the status of your OS partition:

MBRWizard - The MBR utility you've been looking for!

It's freeware.

Boot to DOS and use the *MBRWizD.exe* program with this command line to start it:

mbrwizd.exe /list

It will show which partition is active and which are hidden.

Here's what it showed for my system:

G:\Utilities\MBRWizard\v 1.53>mbrwiz.exe /list
 MBRWiz - Version 1.53 for Windows XP/2K/PE               August 23, 2004
   Copyright (c) 2002-2004 Roger Layton                 software@bigr.net

 Disk: 0   Size=114G
 Pos MBRndx Type/Name  Size Active Hide Start Sector   Sectors
 --- ------ ---------- ---- ------ ---- ------------ ------------
  0    0    07-NTFS    7.6G   Yes   No                 63   15,502,662
  1    1    1C-FAT32x  3.2G   No    Yes   52,163,055    6,490,260
  2    2    0F-EXTEND   86G   No    No    58,653,315  175,783,230

 Disk: 1   Size=114G
 Pos MBRndx Type/Name  Size Active Hide Start Sector   Sectors
 --- ------ ---------- ---- ------ ---- ------------ ------------
  0    0    0F-EXTEND  114G   No    No        16,065  234,420,480

Added 2/5/2006 at 10:50 am:  I used the Windows version for the above sample of the output--but expect the DOS output to be the same.

Great find NightOwl!

Hi all.  first, since this is my first post in any Rad forums, my hats off to all of the moderators.  The articles and topics are all excellent and I find this site to be a very valuable resource.  Thank you.

I see this is an old thread but I am posting here because I ran into a similar problem two weeks ago when trying to ghost a friend's new computer.  I solved the problem eventually -- before I found this forum -- but, like Scott, I was close to reformatting as well.  Unfortunately, due to time constraints, (friend had to go home and took the computer), I no longer have the system, so I cannot do any further testing to try to get Ghost working, but I can tell you what I did that solved the problem, as it may contribute to the thread.  (Solve is actually the wrong word.  I never did resolve the problem to get Ghost to work, but I did manage to recover the system without reformatting.)  This might help someone else.

System:  Acer /Athlon 3400/Windows XP Home
Optical drive:  CD/DVD RW DL (Lite On I think)
160 GB drive partitioned (from factory) as 4 GB hidden, and 2 72 GB (approx) partitions.
The hidden partition is a diagnostic partition (I believe).  A program that came with the system called Acer eRecovery Manager, can be used to create a "factory condition" restore disk set at any time, or do other "image" backups although I'm not confident in them as I have never tried to retore one. (unlike Ghost which I've used many times.)

I wanted to run a Ghost backup, as is my usual practise when working on a system, so that I can at least put the system back to the way it was.  I ran Ghost from a boot CD (standard NightOwl Ghost boot CD "on steroids" - Thank you very much!), and the system froze on the DOS Ghost screen, and a hardware reset was the only option.

Following the reset, the computer failed to boot. It froze early in the boot sequence just at point where it accesses the mbr.  How I know this is because of what solved it.  It froze consistently at a system message "Verifying DMI data pool ....".  (Note: During a normal boot this is almost instantly followed by "Successful", and continuation of the boot sequence.)

The computer would still boot from CD.  I created a boot CD with fdisk (with help from RAD guides - Thank you very much!)

Using fdisk, I set the active partition to the former C: partition, (Win XP), but it still froze at same message.

Eventually , fdisk /mbr fixed the problem and the system booted again with no other apparent damage.  What I think happened is that Ghost froze when accessing/writing the mbr, possible due to the optical drive compatibility, or the hidden diagnostic partition, and the MBR was left screwed up when I did the harware reset.

After reading this thread and the Symantec guides, I'm pretty sure that was the problem. However I was unable to determine this due to not having the system any more.  At the time, I was just glad to have restored the system, and I ended up deleting Ghost and creating a backup with the Acer eRecovery Manager.  A solution I was not happy with (i.e. having an untested backup).

I have been trying to find a solution to get Ghost to run on this system, the next time I'm working on it.  I never thought of the optical drive compatibility issue.  My experience is slightly different than Scott's problem though, and it may still be worth a try to take the optical drive out of the system to see if that helps.

This thread has certainly shed some light on what I experienced.  I will certainly post additional findings if I resolve the issue.  Any of your thoughts on this would also be helpful.

Revved

Thanks for your input.  It's always interesting to hear troubleshooting adventures  ;) !

But, I was surprised that you made this observation:


Quote:

What I think happened is that Ghost froze when accessing/writing the mbr

You stated earlier:


Quote:

I ran Ghost from a boot CD (standard NightOwl Ghost boot CD "on steroids"

It has not been my experience that Ghost access or changes the MBR data unless you are working with Ghost's Windows interface which will create the *virtual partition* by changing the partition table--but that action never occurs, to my knowledge, if booting directly to DOS using either a boot floppy or bootable CD--and no *virtual partition* involved.

But, you later made this comment:


Quote:

At the time, I was just glad to have restored the system, and I ended up deleting Ghost

So...had you installed the Windows Ghost, and were you setting up Ghost from Windows, and letting it create the *virtual partition*, and re-booting to DOS?

This thread talks about using the Ghost partitioning tool *GDisk* in DOS to correct the *virtual partition* problem:  Ghost 2003 -operating system not found.  Make sure you note the incorrect GDisk commands I initially gave and the corrections in a later post.

You could use this tool instead of *GDisk*--using the outline above but this tools commands for the same steps:  MBRWizard - The MBR utility you've been looking for!

Nightowl,

The exact sequence I went through is a little fuzzy after two weeks. (I'm notoriously bad for not documenting the steps I take).

Yes I did install Ghost in Windows.  You are probably correct that the "fatal" problem occurred when running Ghost from Windows.   I didn't put the whole story for brevity, but now that you mention the fact that the Ghost boot disk shouldn't modify the mbr, it makes sense and it probably was the Windows version that caused the problem.  I made two attempts to create a Ghost image.  If recollection serves, my first attempt was using the Ghost boot disk and it froze non-fatally -- that is, a hard reset booted back to Windows.  My second attempt was after installing Systemworks in Windows and trying to run an image with a virtual partition.

So then, the possible sequence was: 1. Ghost Win modifies mbr and reboots system.  2. Ghost DOS freezes due to optical drive incompatibility, non-standard partition problem, or some other unknown issue.  3.  On hard reset, obviously, mbr is not restored and system cannot boot.  4. Restoring mbr solves problem and system can boot.
???
This is still not complete, I think because after #2, the system should have been in a continuous boot back to Ghost DOS, No?

I don't remember that, but at one stage, I decided to use fdisk to restore the active partition.  A continuous boot back to Ghost Dos is probably why I thought of fdisk, and that's when it started freezng at the "Verifying DMI data pool" message, after restoring the active partition but with a bad mbr.

So now the sequence is: 1. Ghost win modifies mbr and reboots.  2. Ghost Dos freezes and computer is in a loop booting to Ghost DOS. 3. Fdisk restores active partition but mbr is bad so system cannot boot.  4. Fdisk /mbr restores mbr and system can boot?

Does this sound plausible?

Really, this is two problems:  one is how the mbr got hooped, and the second, which I haven't even started on, is why Ghost DOS froze.

I really must start keeping a log -- despite my aversion to doing so. :-/  I should know better after 20+ years of working on computers.

The problem is that the next time I work on this system I will likely be at my friend's place out in the boonies with no internet access, and without my own computer systems to work with.  I'll have to take everything with me.
I hate fixing a problem without understanding it.  That's luck not expertise, and while its good that the problem was fixed, its only marginally better than not having fixed it, in my opinion.