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Rad Community Technical Discussion Boards (Computer Hardware + PC Software) >> Norton Ghost 2003,  Ghost v8.x + Ghost Solution Suite (GSS) Discussion Board >> Test Bootable Floppy
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Message started by Radministrator on Apr 29th, 2005 at 3:43pm

Title: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by Radministrator on Apr 29th, 2005 at 3:43pm
I've been getting mail that ppl are having trouble booting form Chris (Sirhc's) bootbale floppy, which he designed specifically for WXP Pro SP2.

Posted here:

http://radified.com/Files/

.. labeled "Ghost boot floppy" .. 3rd file down on left-hand side.

.. background info contained in this thread:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1110614006

One poster there thinks it might be due to  IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS staying hidden (no matter what he does in the properties).

Can someone try to reproduce? Offer suggestion?

Muchos gracias.
R.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on May 1st, 2005 at 3:09am
Radministrator

The outline and files work as indicated, but it has to be done 'exactly' as outlined...


Quote:
1. The (floppy) disk must be formatted and created using Windows 98.


and:


Quote:
PS. I found that if the files are copied to a blank floppy that was formatted by Windows ME, the disk works ... but if they are copied to a floppy that was formatted by Windows XP Pro SP2, it doesn't.


If you simply copy the files from the zipped download to a new blank floppy disk--it will not work.

You must format the floppy using Win98 or ME first, then add the files, and then everything works!



Here's an 'Easter Egg'--if you don't happen to have Win98 or ME to work with, you can put a floppy in the drive (you will be formating it and erasing everything that's on it so make sure you want to use that one!),

--in WinXP, start Windows Explorer, left click on the A:\ drive and select 'Format...',

--in the dialog box that opens--at the bottom it says 'Create an MS-DOS startup disk'--put a check in that check box and click 'start'.

After it's done, 'close' the 'Format 3 1/2 Floppy ( A: ) dialog box, and now right click on the A:\ drive in Windows Explorer.  

Delete all the files that were copied to that floppy, and then add the files from the zipped file, add the Ghost.exe file to the subdirectory 'Ghost', and it works fine!




Having said all the above, I'm not sure what the advantage of following Sirhc's outline is...unless it's to create a boot disk without ever installing Ghost 2003 onto your WinXP system (in which case you will have to 'grab' Ghost.exe from the DOS sub-directory on the CD--but, unless it's a recent CD--the version on the CD may not be the most recent one--you will have to check this--you will not have 'live-update' available to get the most recent version if not installed on your system).

If you download the WinME boot disk creation file from the Radified Download page, or a Win98se boot disk file from BootDisk.com, and use one of those to create a boot disk--you can use that boot disk to supply MS-DOS boot files to the Ghost Boot Wizard if you have installed Ghost on your WinXP system.

When you use the Ghost Boot Wizard, choose to create a Standard Ghost Boot disk, do not add any extra USB, firewire, or SCSI drivers (unless you want these), and when it asks if you want to supply MS-DOS files, pop the Win98se or ME boot disk in the floppy drive, and tell the Wizard to get the files.  Now you can choose MS-DOS files or PC-DOS files as the boot files.  You will end up, after completing the wizard, with essentially the same boot disk as outlined by Sishc.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by Radministrator on May 1st, 2005 at 2:20pm
So, if someone doesn't have W98 or WMe, if won't work? It sounds like the files come from a system formatted with/from W98.

What is the difference? I mean, I wonder why it won't work if formatted by WXP.

Oh, and thanks for the test, and the Easter egg.  :)

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on May 1st, 2005 at 2:38pm
Radministrator


Quote:
So, if someone doesn't have W98 or WMe, if won't work?


If you use the 'Easter Egg' procedure under WinXP--that floppy will work--so you don't have to have W98 or WMe.


Quote:
What is the difference? I mean, I wonder why it won't work if formatted by WXP.


I checked with a disk editor program--WinXP's floppy using the standard format command has a pointer in Absolute Sector 0 to NTLDR--the NT based boot file.

The floppies created with the 'Easter Egg' procedure above or the Win98 or WinME formated floppies have 'io.sys and MSDOS.sys pointed to in Absolute Sector 0 instead of NTLDR.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by Radministrator on May 1st, 2005 at 3:39pm
Okay.

Thanks for the insightful info.

I will unsticky this thread & link to it on the 'Files' page & in the guide where I mention these files.

R.


Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by Newbie_steven on May 18th, 2005 at 11:02pm
Hie all,

I have 2 questions here, please help ...

1 - Can this bootable disk be used in Windows Xp Pro Service Pack 1 instead of Service Pack 2 ?

2 - Where can i download the Ghost.exe executable file ?

Thanks for replying  ;)

Newbie_steven

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by Ricardo on May 18th, 2005 at 11:20pm
1. It is make for SP2, but you can try it and see if it works for SP1.

2. Symantec's "Live Update" is where you download the latest Ghost executable.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on May 19th, 2005 at 2:11am
Newbie_steven

1.  The floppy boot disk boots the system to DOS--WinXP SP1 or SP2 is irrelavant.

2.  Ghost.exe is found on the Symantec CD that you purchase.  You have to supply that by copying it to the boot floppy.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by blu.sockz on May 24th, 2005 at 1:23am
Thanks for the replies  :D  I've successfully ghost my C partition. But actually I used Nero to create boot 'disk' and not boot diskette because I'm using a notebook which doesnt have a Floppy Drive.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by green_meanie on Jul 13th, 2005 at 3:10pm
Good thing I noticed this thread. I downloaded the Ghost Xp SP2 boot zip formatted the floppy in XP slid the files over from the zip and autoexec.bat, command.cpm, and config.sys are hidden files. I had to click view and uncheck hide system files. The boot didn't work so i'll do it again as mentioned above.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by Rad on Jul 13th, 2005 at 4:09pm
If your system doesn't have a floppy drive, see NightOwl's guide here:

http://nightowl.radified.com/bootcd/bootcdintro.html

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by green_meanie on Jul 13th, 2005 at 4:26pm
I got the floppy to work, I used the "easter egg" approach.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by H on Oct 29th, 2005 at 1:45pm
When I tried the Easter Egg approach, not all the files get copied to the floppy.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by H on Oct 30th, 2005 at 5:50pm
A friend suggested to use a boot disk that you would use with Windows 98 and to download a copy from Bootdisks.com. Well, the disk worked and I was able to use Ghost! How simple! Woohoo! ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by robh on Oct 30th, 2005 at 10:15pm
ok, i managed to get a working floppy (2 really, one boot the other containing ghost.exe) using the easter egg method.

I then could see the usb external harddrive i wanted to save the image to when booting into dos-ghost. woohoo

i made the image, seemingly no probs, but when i booted back into the win environment and tried to check the integrity, i got an error saying that the file was stored on an unrecognised drive. even though the ext. hdd is still usable in windows explorer?

any advice?

the image is my C_drive (xp sp2) and i saved it onto an ntfs logical partition on the ext. hdd

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by john897578484 on Oct 31st, 2005 at 3:45pm
its probably an unrecognised drive because DOS does not support the NTFS file format. it can only recognise FAT drives.

i have a problem of my own also, DOS says the command file that came with the download is missing or corrupt. (its there trust me) so it must be corrupt. is there any other place to download this from or how can i create a new command file?

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by O.Lamoree on Nov 15th, 2005 at 11:19pm
Great work guys, ......but...... I have Ghost 10 and it is on the now defunct XP SP1a machine.  I can see the Ghost backup file on the back up drive in Restore Console, I can make the nifty Win98 boot disk on a secondary Win98SE machine...BUT.... the necessary program file, Ghost.exe is trapped on the C: drive as my Ghost 10 was an internet download, the one with the trashed XP install where it is installed and even the DL files is stored there. I tried an old Ghost 2001 v6.5 diskette but it does not show the Ghost 10 backup even on a Fat32 drive.   I have tried Repair Install, and during the WinXP file copy, lists anywhere from two to 9 files that "can't load" and altho the Repair says Repair Has Been Attempted Before and hit Enter to try to repair again, upon restart, I get the perpetual XP flash screen with the running blue line, but it never gets past that. I tried the SP2 XP Slipstreamed and it seemed to load but then upon reboot, the perpetual XP flash screen (without Professional)  It all started suddenly, "hal.dll is invalid, re-install the file" and I suddenly found that I had a Boot.ini file which I never had before and I have been unable to delete it nor get hal.dll to load....  This is the first time XP has betrayed me, and savagely!  Any ideas?  (R & R, lol, reformat and reinstall)  Thanks.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 16th, 2005 at 1:48am
O.Lamoree

Unfortunately, you are *mixin' and matchin'* apples and oranges!

Ghost 10 does not run from a *ghost.exe* executable--and for that matter, doesn't run from a bootable floppy either!  You should have got a *.iso* file for burning a bootable CD--a *Recovery Disk*--that gives you access to your Ghost image for restoring should your WinXP OS go under.

Did you get some sort a *receipt* that allows you to re-download Ghost 10 in case of just this kind of problem--or didn't they instruct you on how to create a backup of the download for future use--I've never done it that way so I don't know how they handle it.

Since Ghost 9.x--older versions of Ghost are not compatible and will not be able to access and use the newer Ghost image files.

If you have WinXP--you always have a *boot.ini* file--required for booting--but it can become corrupt.


Quote:
It all started suddenly, "hal.dll is invalid, re-install the file"

What were you doing at the time--what exactly happened?

Using the *Recovery Console*, you might be able to repair the problem with *bootcfg /rebuild* or the *fixboot* command:

Description of the Windows XP Recovery Console

But, if you want to *protect* your HDD from loss of data, it would be best to create a copy of the HDD using Ghost 2003 from DOS onto a spare HDD so you can attempt repair on the copy and not the original.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by Ghost4me on Nov 16th, 2005 at 8:02am

wrote on Oct 31st, 2005 at 3:45pm:
i have a problem of my own also, DOS says the command file that came with the download is missing or corrupt. (its there trust me) so it must be corrupt. is there any other place to download this from or how can i create a new command file?


A good resource to create all versions of boot disks is
http://www.bootdisk.com/

You don't need to be running DOS, Windows 9x, etc to create the boot disks.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by olamoree on Nov 17th, 2005 at 12:20am
Thanks Night Owl, but I guess I am screwed.  I did make the .iso but didn't burn it because my burner was not working right. Dumb, dumb.

I was only "wishing" that my old Ghost2001 disk would work..... As for a Boot.ini file, I was playing around with BootIt NG and always got a message upon Boot that "Boot.ini file missing or invalid, booting from C:\Windows"  and it would boot fine.  So I went to Run/msconfig and there was NO Boot.ini tab nor file.  I searched on the root of C: and there was no boot.ini file either (hidden files revealed) and I was not concerned because I read somewhere where XP doesn't need a Boot.ini file.....

I am not sure what provoked the missing/invalid Hal.dll message.  I had made no hardware adjustments but I did look to see about the missing Boot.ini file and made one, based upon careful assesment of what Fat32 disks I was running and carefully constructing the file accordingly.... and that is when the Hal.dll error messages started.  I tried reinstalling hal.dll in several versions that I found on the internet using Recovery Console but every reboot reported the Hal.dll error and I was never able to get past the XP start up screen.  I have made a DiskImage of the corrupted XP installation on the C: drive but have not yet formatted and reinstalled, hoping I could find a way around that to save my files.  I have no access to Ghost 10 but still have my old Ghost 2001....could I use it to make a Ghost image of the corrupt C: drive and save it for salvage purposes?  So now what I have is a Ghost 10 backup of the C: drive that is inaccessable because I don't have the Ghost 10 .iso burned which is trapped on the corrupt C: drive and not sure what I will be able to save from the DiskImage of the same drive.   I have "bootfix /rebuild" and "fixboot" with no success.

By the way, BootDisk.com is now $4 to dowload.  But is there anything there that would save my bacon?  Would you advise making a separate copy of principal data files on the corrupt C: drive in order to be able to say, copy MY DOCUMENTS to a new installation?  Can I save my Outlook Express files that way too?  I can't understand why the Repair Installation doesn't work and why I get "cannot load xxxx.xxx, press Escape to continue without loading the file" as it is an original XP CD, and every time I try to run the Repair Installation I get from two to 9 files like that and usually never the same ones, except for kbdes.dll which is always reported as not there. Appreciate your experience and insight and would like to hear your ideas.  Thanks.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 17th, 2005 at 1:05am
olamoree


Quote:
I was playing around with BootIt NG and always got a message upon Boot that "Boot.ini file missing or invalid, booting from C:\Windows"


How were you booting to Windows before *BootIt NG*?--no error message prior to using *BootIt NG*?


Quote:
I had made no hardware adjustments but I did look to see about the missing Boot.ini file and made one, based upon careful assesment of what Fat32 disks I was running and carefully constructing the file accordingly.... and that is when the Hal.dll error messages started.

Your *boot.ini* file is messed up--if it points to the wrong partition, it will not find the *Hal.dll* file where it's looking and you get that error.

Try deleting that *boot.ini* file you created--if you were able to boot without it before--why not again--does that help?

(Can you post a copy of the *boot.ini* file you made?)

You can create an *emergency boot floppy* for WinXP if you have access to another WinXP machine with a floppy drive:

How to use System files to create a boot disk to guard against being unable to start Windows XP

You need to format the floppy using WinXP, and do not choose to make a *MS-DOS Boot Disk*.

Copy the indicated files to the floppy.

Here's a generic *boot.ini* file:

[boot loader]
timeout=10
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /SOS

To find the correct partition with your OS on it, try the above first.  Then change the *1* to *2* and try that.  The try *3*, and then *4*


Quote:
still have my old Ghost 2001....could I use it to make a Ghost image of the corrupt C: drive and save it for salvage purposes?

Is your file system NTFS?--not sure Ghost 2001 can handle it--may be able to make image of NTFS to FAT32, but probably not able to save an image to a NTFS partition.


Quote:
and not sure what I will be able to save from the DiskImage of the same drive.

Well, if you *purchase* another copy of Ghost 10, create the *Recovery Disk*, then you should be able to use that image to recover your image to that HDD (but I would get a spare HDD to use, and keep that original for *safe keeping* until you know you can't recover anything!), and, if you recover everything--get a refund for the 2nd purchase of Ghost 10  ;) !


Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by olamoree on Nov 17th, 2005 at 11:37am
Wow, thanks NightOwl, lots of good info.

Yes, before BootIt NG, everything was peachy keen with NO XP problems whatsoever for years! with SP1a....  However, I think that, in view of the BING message, "Missing or invalid Boot.ini, booting C:\WINDOWS", it just booted from C:\Windows without
any message.  It was BootIt NG that brought it to my attention and confirmed in run/msconfig that there wasn't even a Boot.ini Tab (with Hidden files showing).  That is when I started screwing things up by making a boot.ini......

In Recovery Console I did try to delete boot.ini but get access denied.  I notice that when logging into Recovery Console that it asks for the Win installation, but does NOT offer me Admin login, and even when I call  LogOn, it askes which Windows installation I want to Log Onto and when I type in "1", it just returns the C:\Windows> prompt.  I DO have an Admin logon which is NOT "Admin".... but it never asks for it.  But maybe the Repair Installations I have run changed it back to *Admin* and therefore it does not ask for password.......

I did try copying NTLDR to C: and it accepted it, but when I tried to
copy NTDETECT (from the i386 file) to the C: drive, it said File Not
Found?????? and that was from CD drive:\i386 on the original XP disk.  I do see that when loading Recovery Console "NTDETECT
is scanning hardware...." so it must be there....somewhere.....

This is NOT the boot.ini file that I loaded to make a Boot.ini.
The one I did load is/was very similar to your example altho I don't have a copy of it available; *something* changed it.....

In Recovery Console at C:\ in response to type boot.ini,
I get:

[boot loader]
redirect=usewindows
redirectbaudrate=
timeout=1
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect c:\WINDOWS
C:\CMDCONS \BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons

You say to try different numbers for the *partition(1)* and I am sure(?) that XP is on partition 1 of that disk....and there are only 2 partitions on that disk, a 16gigger with XP and another 68gigs with some file back ups.  Will await your further comments.

I do not have another XP machine to make your "generic boot.ini", if you find serious problems with the one above, however, I suspect I could use this Win98SE machine to copy your version to an existing diskette that was made/used/formatted in the XP machine and delete existing files before writing boot.ini ....is that possible? Using *copy a:\boot.ini c:\* .... does that sound right?

Yes, I could buy another Ghost 10 to create the "Recovery Disk" but have  no XP machine to make it on.... I could even find a "Trial Download" for it but still, no XP machine.

So, I have a Ghost 10 incremental backup 3 days old (from before the "problem") and a Disk Image of the screwed up C: drive for safekeeping.  Do you think I may need more?  I thought as a "last resort" I could reformat the C: drive, reinstall XP (and necessary proggys and files) reinstall Ghost 10 (I have the original Download on another drive), make the Ghost 10 Recovery Disk and then restore the Ghost image..... that is "last resort"
as I would prefer to repair what I have.

My file system is on 3 different drives with a total of 5 partitions (C & D on an 80 gigger, Fat32) (E virtually empty 40gigger, NTFS) (F & Y, Y being the backup partition, both Fat32).
 XP is in Fat32 and my backup drive is Fat32 and another drive is NTFS in order that I can store files larger than 4Gigs...  Maybe then I could use the Ghost 2001 to make a  "just in case" copy of the damaged C: drive, altho it is 9Gigs to back up?

Thanks again.  

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 17th, 2005 at 1:04pm
olamoree

Hmmmm.....


Quote:
Yes, before BootIt NG, everything was peachy keen with NO XP problems whatsoever for years! with SP1a....  

Have you messed around with other *boot* programs?  Were you booting with some other method, other than the Microsoft's way?  I have never seen any reference to booting WinXP without *boot.ini* unless it was using a non-Microsoft boot method.


Quote:
when I call  LogOn, it askes which Windows installation I want to Log Onto and when I type in "1", it just returns the C:\Windows> prompt

You have *other* Windows installatiions to choose from?


Quote:
This is NOT the boot.ini file that I loaded to make a Boot.ini.  
The one I did load is/was very similar to your example altho I don't have a copy of it available; *something* changed it.....

How did you *load* the boot.ini you *created*?

*something* changed it!!!!!?  That makes me wonder!  What would be doing that?


Quote:
In Recovery Console at C:\ in response to type boot.ini,
I get:

So, where did this *boot.ini* come from?


Quote:
I do not have another XP machine to make your "generic boot.ini", if you find serious problems with the one above, however, I suspect I could use this Win98SE machine to copy your version to an existing diskette

So, you have a Win98 system available, and you said your WinXP is on a FAT32 partition.

Use the Win98 system to create its *Emergency Boot Disk*.  I believe that will have the DOS program called *Edit*.

Use the boot disk to boot the WinXP machine to DOS.  Change to the C:\ HDD, and at the DOS prompt type "edit boot.ini".

You should be able to edit the contents of the boot.ini file--then save the changes.  I would try this:

[boot loader]
redirect=usewindows
redirectbaudrate=
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect c:\WINDOWS
C:\CMDCONS \BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons

What happens now?


Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by olamoree on Nov 17th, 2005 at 10:08pm
Thanks for your prompt response.  No, haven't used other boot proggys except BootIt NG to see if it would be right for dual booting with Win98SE which I never got to.  Before, it was the normal XP boot with a flash of the WinXP/Recovery Console screen that I had put up to avoid having to load XP to get to the Recovery Console, just in case..... Could it be that with the installation of BING that the boot.ini file was removed? or as a hidden file, modified?

No, no other Win installations to choose from nor installed, just the  WinXP/Recovery Console selection screen that lasts for one second (5 seconds now with your version).

For my "created" boot.ini file, I relied on information here:
http://www.sysinternals.com/Information/bootini.html
and used the example provided and installed it by moving it from NotePad to a diskette and then using copy to put it in C:\root.  I then checked it and it seemed to work, once or twice and THEN I started to get the hal.dll missing or invalid errors and it was downhill from there.  *Something* changed the boot.ini file and it may have been BING, but I am not knowledgeable enough to determine that --I am not even sure that the boot.ini file was "bad", it just didn't boot!  Now I can see that it is NOT just a simple job of re-installing hal.dll as M$ would lead me to believe, it would appear that you have to first determine WHICH hal file is needed and re-install that one, like halipsc.dll and other versions......That's another headache......

Took a look here: http://www.digitalwebcast.com/2002/03_mar/tutorials/cw_boot_toot2.htm
 to try to get back some original files and got thru Page 2 Step 1 but upon reboot, I still get the perpetual XP flash screen with no HDD activity.  Then went back into the Recovery Console and NOW, when I select the Windows installation I want to see, I enter "1" and up pops the Administrators Password dialog....that's rogress!  And the password was not taken back to Admin but was my own of two years ago.

Charlie White had done a good job on this article but I couldn't get past Step 1 to get access to the System Volume Information folder to try and pull out the various _registry_user_default, _registry_machine_security etc. files that he talks about.  I tried but see no way to get at them (to copy them) in Restore Console.

OK, was able to Edit the boot.ini file to your specifications (had to Attrib  -H -R -S first (lol) then I plussed them again and only added /noguiboot after /fastdetect to be able to *see* if anything is hanging up.

Results:  After *Verifying DMI pool data.....*
Black screen, no HDD activity, nothing on screen (but monitor does not shut off even after it's 15 minute setting) and that was with /noguiboot switch and when I removed that switch, again, the perpetual XP splash screen.

What's next?  Thanks again.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 18th, 2005 at 1:50am
olamoree


Quote:
Before, it was the normal XP boot with a flash of the WinXP/Recovery Console screen that I had put up to avoid having to load XP to get to the Recovery Console,

I was going to ask you if you had installed the *Recovery Console*--and if you got that brief flash of the *boot menu*--because the only way you get the *boot menu* is if *boot.ini* exists!

The fast one second flash of the menu was the *timeout=1* setting, and the fact that you installed the *Recovery Console* is why you get that listed in the *menu* choices--so you did have a *boot.ini* if that was happening before you installed BING.


Quote:
to try to get back some original files

Because your WinXP is on a FAT32 partition, you could hook it up to your Win98 system as a *slave* drive, and you should have access to the that *C:\* partition--it will be assigned a different drive letter--as will other partitions if you have other HDD's as well on that system--if the letters effect booting programs, you might get a bunch of errors saying programs can't be loaded--or it might *freeze* the system--but, if you can boot successfully, you could copy all the important data file from that partition to another HDD on the Win98 system.

You won't be able to run Ghost 10.x on the Win98--but you could probably get the download installation file, and if the *Recovery Disk* is a separate *.iso* file, you could get that, too!  If you get the *iso* file, then find someone with an WinXP system with a functioning burner and create that *Recovery Disk*--then you might be able to simply restore your backed up image.

In another thread on the forums--this was mentioned on how to contact Symantec for a replacement CD:

Pls help - Symantec Recovery Disc for Ghost 9


This link:

Order Information



Quote:
only added /noguiboot after /fastdetect to be able to *see* if anything is hanging up.

Try this switch instead--*/SOS*--so like this:

[boot loader]  
redirect=usewindows
redirectbaudrate=  
timeout=5  
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS  
[operating systems]  
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /SOS c:\WINDOWS
C:\CMDCONS \BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons

That gets rid of the WinXP *splash screen* and should allow you to see if there is an error screen *hidden* behind the *splash screen*.

Let me know if you are successfull in getting the important files off that partition--and if you can retrieve the Ghost download files and the *Recovery Disk* *.iso* if that's what you have.

And is there an error message now that the splash screen is gone?

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by WilliamP on Nov 18th, 2005 at 4:57pm
I know I'm a dummy but please help. I have XP Pro. and I did the EasterEgg  trick down to the Ghost EXE. I haven't gotten that yet . Please lead me in the right direction.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 18th, 2005 at 8:30pm
WilliamP

Not sure what *direction* you are looking for?

The *Easter Egg trick* is how you can format a floppy disk so it can boot to DOS correctly when formatting a floppy on a WinXP system--where the *std WinXP* format does not create a DOS bootable floppy.

*Ghost.exe* is the DOS Ghost executable file that you have on your Ghost installation CD, or Norton SystemWorks Pro installation CD, or on your HDD if you have installed Ghost to your Windows system.

The other DOS files are described in the links in the first post of the thread:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1110614006

and the zipped file that has those DOS files are available here:

http://radified.com/Files/

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by WilliamP on Nov 18th, 2005 at 10:06pm
Night Owl I have Ghost on my computer . How do I get the Ghost exe. to the floppy? I have tried to find it . Don't know what I'm doing wrong. OK I finally found the exe. I had been looking for Norton Ghost  or Ghost not Symantec. So I have found the exe. How do I get it to my floppy?

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 18th, 2005 at 11:04pm
WilliamP

Well, there are multiple ways to transfer files in Windows--*copy* and *paste* is one:

In Windows Explorer or My Computer--highlite the *ghost.exe* file, right mouse click and select *copy*.

Put a floppy disk in the drive, and navigate to the A:\ drive in Windows Explorer or My Computer--click on the right panel, and then right mouse click and select *paste*.  

Ghost.exe should now be copied to the floppy disk.

If you want to create a subdirectory to put Ghost.exe into, first right mouse click and select *New* and then *Folder*--type the name you want--for instance *Ghost*, click on that folder, and then do the *paste* command above.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by olamoree on Nov 20th, 2005 at 1:11am
Thanks for your reply Night Owl.  The only progress, so far, is that
for a moment, I got a screen that said, as my only two choices, choose SafeMode or RecoveryConsole and I clicked SafeMode and it opened!  However, I noticed that it only registered the C: and E: drives in MyComputer, primary and secondary partition of the first drive (The D: drive is a 2nd physical HDD stuck in between and
the F: drive is a big 160Gig as the 3rd physical drive). I am/was delighted to see that  all my files and proggys seem to still be there in SafeMode but as the C: and E: drive were the only ones showing, couldn't access my back up drive, F:.  In ControlPanel, tho, it listed the 3 physical HDD's in the machine and says that they are working..... I ran sfc /scannow and got a flash of a black square, ran some other fix-its that were on the C: drive and
when I rebooted, still perpetual XP loader screen.

I now notice that BootIt NG has disappeared from the scene.....  

Now, when I F8 to try for SafeMode, I get the screen run of multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(0)WINDOWS(1)System32\Drivers\about 60 .sys and .dll files..... and it never goes any farther.  I would mention here that when I first started getting this "problem", I would get the "Windows was shut down to protect your computer (and so you can't fix it either!) and at the bottom, the cryptic 0x0000008C etc. and on the second line, SymSnap.sys and I investigated that and find it is a Symantec file from SNapShotDevelopment Edition Storage Craft Volume and I renamed it but it reappeared in System32/Drivers.  I mention it
only as it is the ONLY file that has appeared on an error screen.

Using a Win98 StartUpDisk (a handy Cerelli one), I have worked over the boot.ini file as you suggest using /SOS and after Saving and Type the boot.ini to see if all is well, rebooting and instead of of XP splash screen, I get the two-tone XP screen, two dark blue bands top and bottom with white Windows XP logo top right, light blue center, with the NON-moving orange runner at the bottom between the two blues and in the lighter blue with white letters, that says:

Microsoft (R)Windows(R) Version 5.1 (Build 2600: Service Pack 1)
1 System Processor [992 MB Memory]

and nothing happens.......


(OT: Meanwhile, a friend came by with his digital Kodak camera wanting to download some pictures on the now full MCC chip.  Put in the EasyShare CD, loaded the proggy, and Powie! the Win98SE --AMD 550gHz-- machine BSOD to the death!  I removed all of the cards and still no joy, then the memory strip and that was the problem... now it is working.  Thus my delay in replying.)

I was wondering, IF I could get back into SafeMode, is there something that I could do (with only the primary first HDD showing) to improve the situation?


Thanks again for your help.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 20th, 2005 at 3:05am
olamoree

That's somewhat weird behavior--being able to boot to *Safe Mode* one time--and then not again.

All of this sounds like there's some *problem* with the BING installation and useage--and your attempt to create that *boot.ini*--it sounds like something is being loaded during boot that is causing a system error/conflict.

That *SymSnap.sys and I investigated that and find it is a Symantec file from SNapShotDevelopment Edition Storage Craft Volume*--is that associated with Ghost 10?

I'm running out of ideas to try with the *present* system--another *recovery* idea could be tried--called a *parallel Windows install*--this is where you take your installation CD for Windows and boot from it, do a clean install on the C:\ partition (you have to have enough room), but choose a different installation directory like *Windows2*--you're not re-formatting, repairing, or over-writing your original Windows installation--just a second install--your original *Windows* directory remains untouched.

The hope is that the second install corrects whatever initial boot conflict that is occurring and allows you to boot to a functional new copy of WinXP.

You then have an operational WinXP OS--if you repair your optical burner problem--you should have access to the Ghost 10 download and the *Recovery Disk* .iso.  Boot to the 'Recovery Disk' attempt to restore your backup of your original C:\ partition.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by WilliamP on Nov 20th, 2005 at 12:00pm
I am still having problems getting my boot disk. I followed the Easter Egg. After the Create an MS-DOS Start up disk, I closed the box and right clicked on the A drive, but it does not give me the option to delete the files. Do I fomat at this point? I can double left click on A drive to open it,then delete all the files on individually. Is that is what I am supposed to do?

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 20th, 2005 at 1:32pm
WilliamP


Quote:
I can double left click on A drive to open it,then delete all the files on individually. Is that is what I am supposed to do?


Yes--it's a *manual* operation--you are deciding to alter the contents of that *MS-DOS Startup Disk*--this is not a *default* Windows behavior.  

You can highlite the first file, hold down the *Shift* key and then left click on the last file--this will highlite all the files in that *range*.  Then delete them all at once.

Alternatively, you can hold down the *Ctrl* key, and left click each file you wish to select--each file you click will then be highlited, and you can delete the bunch all at once.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by WilliamP on Nov 20th, 2005 at 2:21pm
Does the Zipped file from the web  go on the floppy zipped ? If it does, at what point is it unzipped? I want to thank you for your help.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 20th, 2005 at 3:36pm
WilliamP


Quote:
Does the Zipped file from the web  go on the floppy zipped ?

No.  

Once you have downloaded the zipped file to your HDD, you can *extract* the files to the floppy--or *extract* the files to a directory on your HDD and then copy the files to the floppy.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by WilliamP on Nov 20th, 2005 at 3:56pm
Just want to get this straight. Delete everything from the floppy including the  MODE DOS Application.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 20th, 2005 at 4:20pm
WilliamP


Quote:
Delete everything from the floppy including the  MODE DOS Application.

Yes--if you want to use *Sirhc's* boot script that is included in the download--then you use only the files contained in his zipped file--plus add the *ghost.exe* executable.  The *Easter Egg* step is simply to create an *MS-DOS* bootable disk onto which to save the boot files in the zipped file.

Just to be sure, you did see this comment in reply #1:


Quote:
Having said all the above, I'm not sure what the advantage of following Sirhc's outline is...unless it's to create a boot disk without ever installing Ghost 2003 onto your WinXP system (in which case you will have to 'grab' Ghost.exe from the DOS sub-directory on the CD

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by olamoree on Nov 20th, 2005 at 4:52pm
Thanks NightOwl.  Yes, a parallel install sounds possible and I will give it a try.  Are there any special precautions that you could give me?  Too bad I can leave off IE and OE during the install as they might overwrite me present installation... or would it?  Come on, talk me into it!  

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by WilliamP on Nov 20th, 2005 at 4:52pm
Bless you my friend. I appreciate the help. Have a good day.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 20th, 2005 at 6:12pm
olamoree

I'll be honest--I have only read about doing this--sounded like there would be few issues--any *common* files that are installed should be the same as what was originally installed (I'm assuming you are using the same installlation CD--I noted you said originally you had WinXP SP1--and then used a *slip-streamed WinXP SP2 in one of your latter attempts to solve the problems--mixin' and matchin' can have unknown effects!).

And, because you are not re-formatting--any files and settings since the first install that are not part of the install should be untouched by the second install--like data files--but the new install will not *inherit* the settings of the previous install--unless the *config or ini* files are a shared item that do not get over-written during install.

But, persumably, those are mute points if your intention is to use Ghost 10 to restore your previous backup image using the *Recovery Disk*--the *new install* will have never existed once you use the image and restore the C:\ partition.  

You must use the *Recovery Disk*--you can not restore an OS partition that you are running Ghost 10 from!

Make sure you are restoring the *master boot record* as part of the restore!

Of course--you have done a bunch of things to the system trying to trouble shoot--hard to say what unknow *kinks* may occur doing a second install!  

And, did you do an integrity check on that original backup image to be sure it's good?  And everything hinges on a successful restore using Ghost--sometimes that doesn't work out for some folks for whatever reason!

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 20th, 2005 at 6:13pm
WilliamP

You're welcome!

Report back with the results of your efforts!

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by WilliamP on Nov 20th, 2005 at 7:11pm
Night Owl everytime I try to put Ghost into the floppy it says the disk is full. When I check properties it isn't. There is an empty Ghost folder on the floppy. What am I supposed to look for in the program file. There is Ghost with .98MB in it. I have tried[ copy and paste] also[ send to]. I didn't actually see anything that said Ghost EXE.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by olamoree on Nov 20th, 2005 at 7:36pm
Thanks again NightOwl.  I Googled on Parallel Windows Install and found a few sites.....

This one:  http://www.windowsreinstall.com/winxppro/installxpcdparallell/indexfullpage.htm
gives a step by step, but really, no caveats....  but then I went to
their forum: http://www.probz.com/bbs/index.htm and on Page 1, Subject:  "Is it time for an XP Reinstall?"  The moderator, the same author of XP Reinstall above, says, "Make sure you save everything you don't want to loose onto a cd or 3rd party backup device, as all on the drive will be lost."
So is that a caveat or not?  lol   In the Reinstall guide above, there is no mention of backups and at the end, it even implies that drivers "may" have to be reinstalled.....  I have a DiskImage of the screwed up C: drive, for what that is worth.  It would be "difficult" to extract individual files from that.
So I am hinging everything on the Ghost10 backup.....

M$ offers this:  http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;316941#XSLTH3153121122120121120120

with even less information......

What do you think?  Is it time for an XP Parallel Install?


Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 20th, 2005 at 8:40pm
olamoree


Quote:
So I am hinging everything on the Ghost10 backup.....


Well,....it all depends on how important your data is on that drive.  You said it's a FAT32 partition--you have a Win98 system that can read FAT32 partitions--you have options....

You could get another HDD and another copy of Ghost and *clone* the current *bad* HDD to the other HDD--use the new other HDD clone to do the parallel install so that the original is still untouched for possible future recovery if things don't go well on the *test* HDD.  If the parallel install works and you are able to recovery the other Ghost 10 *Recovery Disk* .iso, able to use it to restore your image successfully--you're back in business--with a spare HDD to use for whatever.

If something goes wrong, you still have your original to work with for some other try.

Basically--each time you have tried some *recovery* effort, you have been at risk of loosing it all, being as the system is flakey and not responding in a positive fashion.

You will have to decide how fast you want to proceed--and, what additional precautions to take--unfortunately, I have no way to know if your Ghost image will work successfully on your system--only you can determine that--and you have to make the decision as to how to *safely* proceed from here.

You have never answered the question as to whether you can access the Ghost *Recovery Disk* .iso that's needed to create the *Recovery Disk*--if you can get that and have the *Recovery Disk* burned on someone else's system--you would at least have that to work with--I would still want to have a spare HDD and try my recovery to the spare HDD and keep the original for safe keeping until I knew everything was going to work okay.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by WilliamP on Nov 20th, 2005 at 9:03pm
Night Owl I have XP Pro SP2  and have Ghost loaded. If I go to the boot Wizard and create a boot floppy, will I have what I need to boot this thing?

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 21st, 2005 at 1:08am
WilliamP


Quote:
everytime I try to put Ghost into the floppy it says the disk is full

Your floppy can hold a max of 1.44 MB (approx. 1440 KB)--total up the files on the floppy--if there isn't at least .98 MB (approx. 980 KB still free, then the Ghost executable will not fit and you will get that error.


Quote:
I didn't actually see anything that said Ghost EXE

Sounds like you do not have your *folder view settings* set to show the file *extensions*.

Open Windows Explorer or My Computer, click on *Tools/Folder Options ... *, click on the *View* tab:

Select:  *Show hidden files and folders*
Uncheck:  *Hide extensions for known file types*
Uncheck:  *Hide protected operating system files (Recommended)

Click *Apply*

Now, you should be able to see all files on the system, and their extensions.


Quote:
If I go to the boot Wizard and create a boot floppy, will I have what I need to boot this thing?

The *Std Ghost Boot Disk* will allow for basic Ghosting under most circumstances--you can add USB support as part of that boot disk if needed.  You will not have general DOS access to your optical drives with the Std Boot Disk--but if Ghost is compatible and recognizes your optical drives--they will be seen inside the DOS Ghost Program and you can store image files to them, and restore image files from your optical drives.

The other Boot Disk Options are for various *special* circumstances.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by WilliamP on Nov 21st, 2005 at 8:33pm
Hi Night Owl,I'm cofused. I checked the floppy and after doing the Easter Egg there is only 835 MB free space, so the Ghost exe. can't be installed. So how is anyone getting it done?  OK. I have it now. I unhid my files as you said and that is the reason there wasn't enough room on the floppy. Not all the files were deleted from the MS DOS boot disk because they were hidden. I started over and this time I opened the floppy and installed the Ghost EXE into the empty Ghost folder. The only thing I am concerned about is with the floppy in A drive when I double click it ,iit shows Ghost_2003_boot_floppy_for... Then if I double click on that it shows Ghost 2003 bootable floppy for WinXP Pro SP2. When I double click on that it opens up to show whats on the floppy. And Ghost still shows as a Folder.  

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 21st, 2005 at 8:56pm
WilliamP

Clarify--you have only 835 MB after creating the MS-DOS boot disk, and deleting *all* (you have to be able to *see* system files and *hidden* files) the files on it before adding the files from the *zipped* file?

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by WilliamP on Nov 21st, 2005 at 9:15pm
Please see what I added above.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by WilliamP on Nov 21st, 2005 at 9:41pm
I think I have finally arrived.  I went to My Documents where I put the file and opened it. I deleted the empty Ghost folder. Then I went to my program files and sent the Ghost exe to the file. Now the file that I downloaded from the web page has everything. I then sent the 9 things individually to the A drive. Now when I double click on the A drive it opens to show all the files including the Ghost.exe

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by olamoree on Nov 24th, 2005 at 2:11am
Hey NightOwl, no joy.... yet... but something.....

Proceeded with Parallel WindowsXP Install according to the site mentioned previously and what a headache!  Copied files from the CD (XP Pro) fine, but when it got time to install those files, it indicated that it could not find such and such a file (ex: ipsink.ax, kodak_dc.icm, etc.) and called for the CD, which was already in the drive, and it would NOT display the i386 file of the MS original CD!!!  I had made a slipstreamed SP2 CD off of the original and YES, the slipstreamed one DOES show the i386 files and so I had to keep switching between the original and the SSed one to get the files to load.  I was never able to find/load ipsink.ax even tho the SSed disk was showing "SP2.CAB" where the rest of the "missing" files were eventually found..... The installation shows
to be plain XP, not even SP1a, and "Professional" is still there.

I made a new directory on the Active/Primary C: called WINXP2 and it shows up as a new Directory when restarted with Win98 Cerelli Boot Disk as do ALL of my 3 Physical Drives.... but not in Restore Console nor during all of this Parallel Install, only the C: and D: partitions of the 1st Physical Drive shows.....

So on the reboot, I have the two MS WinXP Pro installs listed and selecting the second one, which is supposed to be the Parallel nstall, WINXP2 (as opposed to WINDOWS, the damaged one) I STILL get the two tone blue XP screen.  Then I look in the boot.ini file and see that the Parallel Install is listed first and the second one is the original damaged one.  Rebooting and letting the first entry select viola! there is the WinXP Setup and I move on to the new XP installation! BUT, there are ONLY the two partitions of the first HDD, C: and D: which I guess is better than a jab in the eye with a sharp stick, yet the BIOS shows the 1st and 2nd Physical drives.....  

Now, I would certainly appreciate hearing of your recommendations for using the "temporary" Parallel Install to "fix" the REAL WinXP which, up until the "crash", ran my life contentedly.  Some clues.... as I said, it started with the hal.dll invalid or not found, Windows cannot start.  Throughout this adventure, trying "corrections" and "tweaks" here and there, I always run into a suspicious behavior when using "fixmbr" where I am told that "This computer appears to have a non-standard or invalid MBR...." and cautions me about proceeding as it could make the partitions unreadable.  I applied the "fdisk /mbr" using the "new" fdisk, but got the same message....  There is NO disk management proggy on any drive.  It could be that there  is a problem with the MBR that I can't/haven't been able to fix.  What do you recommend to "restore" it?  Should I be able to find an MBR backup?  

And altho 2nd Physical drive is detected in BIOS, it does NOT show up in My Computer, nor the 3rd Physical drive which is on a Promise card that I have to find the driver for so it will show (maybe?), but the IDE 2nd Physical is NOT showing up and I would like to register that one before I initiate the Promise card for the 3rd Physical Drive (Proggys, MyDocs, BackUp, etc) for drive letter assignment.

Thanks again for your patience and help.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 24th, 2005 at 2:58am
olamoree

Well...didn't expect the *parallel install* to be quite that difficult...but, sounds like you made it--good effort!


Quote:
there are ONLY the two partitions of the first HDD, C: and D: which I guess is better than a jab in the eye with a sharp stick, yet the BIOS shows the 1st and 2nd Physical drives.....  

Weird!  Things to double check--in the BIOS--make sure *auto-detect* is selected for each HDD.  Re-check your HDD jumpers if using those to make sure they are set properly.  If using jumpers to specify master and slave, consider changing to *cable select*--or the other way around if already using *cable select*--change to jumper settings--see if any of that helps.

If there is a BIOS option to force the BIOS to re-detect and re-assign resources--tell the BIOS to do its re-detect and assign *thing*.


Quote:
Throughout this adventure, trying "corrections" and "tweaks" here and there, I always run into a suspicious behavior when using "fixmbr" where I am told that "This computer appears to have a non-standard or invalid MBR...."

and:

There is NO disk management proggy on any drive.

The BING program may be the culprit that altered the MBR, and that may be where the problems lie.


Quote:
Should I be able to find an MBR backup?

I've seen some references to a backup MBR that is stored on the HDD--but I'm not knowledgeable about that--may have to try a forum on HDD's for that info.


Quote:
Now, I would certainly appreciate hearing of your recommendations for using the "temporary" Parallel Install to "fix" the REAL WinXP

Well, do you have access to your Ghost 10.x download file?  Do you have access to your *Recovery Disk* .iso file--or do you have to install Ghost 10.x to create the *Recovery Disk*?  Have you fixed or replaced your CD writer so you can create the *Recovery Disk*?

When you made the Ghost 10 image of your HDD, did you check the box to include the MBR?

Before you proceed, you probably have to get the other HDD's to show up--but it may not be necessary if your Ghost *Recovery Disk* can be created from file on C:\ or D:\.  After you have the *Recovery Disk*--boot it to the *Recovery Environment and see if all the HDD's show up there--if you are doing a restore of the backed up image--all may be *fixed* after the restore.

I hope your image file included the MBR--make sure to check the box to restore the MBR!

Report back with your progress!


Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by olamoree on Nov 29th, 2005 at 2:33am
Yikes NightOwl, this YaBBa board has dropped the thread?  I had replied and you had replied I had replied and now it's Sunday Nite and the thread shows last post on 24th???????  The turkey got it?  Also notice that when I put this cursor in this message, it "selects" the whole paragraph, like it was ready to cut/copy...

Anyway, I am still fooling around.  I am DLing a Hiran disk and going to try to burn an ISO and work with the tools on it that may help.      

I noticed an odd thing:  When I went to hook this Win98 box up to the sick XP box (have Linksys BEFSR41) and see on Local Area Connections Properties/Advanced, a message saying that Windows Management Instrumentation (WMI) information might be corrupted and to use System Restore to put the box back in time....... lol, wish I could!    

I have run SpinRite 6 and it says that all of the files are intact on all 3 HDD's and that it corrected 149 access errors, probably the number of times I tried to boot XP!, but still doesn't boot in the original XP install, just the Parallel Install.  I ran BootMaster trial and altho the "repair" feature is dependent upon US$30, I could send the log to them for "evaluation" even in trial mode..... I could not make heads nor tails of the log......

I am going to look into Partition Table Doctor and a couple of others to see if that MBR and Partition Table for the C: drive will be fixable.....

I sure did hope that the Parallel XP Install would be useful to fix the original install, but find that I am adding more and more to the Parallel Install and altho termed "temporary", for now it is all I have!  I now have the 1st Physical and 3rd Physical showing up on the Parallel Install, but NOT the 2nd Physical.  I am going to reset the cables and try it and if no joy, swap it into the Win98 box to see if it is recognized.  It is a 40Gig WD, a little long in the tooth, but with no important files on it.  I may even leave it out for now.

As always, your comments, suggestions (and encouragement!) are important.  Thanks.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 29th, 2005 at 10:45am
olamoree


Quote:
Yikes NightOwl, this YaBBa board has dropped the thread?

Yes--it seems to have an occassional *hic up*--always a good idea to *copy-n-paste* (especially long responses) to WordPad or Notepad as you create the message as backup until you verify the response shows on the board!  Don't want to admit how many times my stubby, fat fingers have hit the wrong key on the keyboard and I have lost my whole post--the *Back* key does not help  ;) !  I even compose some responses in WordPad and *copy-n-paste* to the board to avoid possible loss!

Have you looked at the *BING* website for trouble shooting the install and/or uninstall of their program--do they have email support for problems?

The fact that you were able to do the parallel install suggests that it's something (software or setting(s)) that is creating the problem--but, efforts so far are not addressing the issue.

Curious--you have never mentioned any effort to reach your Ghost image, Ghost download file(s), or resolving the problem creating the Ghost *Recovery Disk*.  If you have a good Ghost image that is prior to the problem(s) beginning--the restoring of that image would seem to offer the fastest, and possibly, best chance of recovery.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by olamoree on Nov 29th, 2005 at 12:27pm
Hey NightOwl, yes, I thought that YaBBa had hiccuped... or maybe one of those stubbys got too close to the Remove button..... And yes, I DO compose my response in Notepad and copy and paste and even in Gmail.... which is cranky with Paste (secret: Ctrl V)....

The problem with the Parallel install is that it of course has no drivers, proggys or anything and what I wanted to do was use it to "fix" the original XP install, but it looks like I have to do more in the Parallel first..... like install Nero to get the Hiran ISO burned and maybe even Office as there doesn't seem to be WordPad in this turkey, just NotePad....

BING, well, not sure what it has to do with the problem, but I do see its files.  It is a trial copy so it may have stopped working on its own.  There are bigger fish to fry.

The Ghost Image.  Yes, when the 3rd Physical Drive showed up, (the 2nd is still not seen) there is a partition on it (Y: in the original XP and now H: in the Parallel install) that has the Ghost files, GIGAbytes of them!, apparently current and incremental up to Nov 11th, the fatal day..... The reason I have not addressed that issue out loud are the complications.  I would have to install Ghost 10 in the Parallel XP, which is at SP1a right now,  and then get the BootCD ISO ready for burning, which means ASPI layers, Nero, etc. and then the possible complications of using the Parallel XP to reinstall in the Original XP, which, in my opinion, is not "fixed" enough to trust an overwrite of what I have preserved so far.... and the dread of losing the files of the Original XP because of a bad Ghost Restore..... And what would be the implications/complications of Ghost restoring into the Parallel Xp install?  Could I control that?  I have never used Ghost 10 to do a restore because I have not had this crash before and only used Ghost 2001 v6.5 one time for a restore..... Yes, I KNOW that that is what Ghost is supposed to be for but it does not have my trust in such a situation.  If it was virus damage and the Original XP would boot, then no problem, I would risk it, but here we are dealing with two XP installs and they may not like each other and in IT circles would be considered BadHair.  lol

I am scrapping together yet another box to put XP on as box #2 will only tolerate Win98SE ("legacy" stuff as in ISA) and thought that I would put in a burner and burn the Ghost ISO Restore CD on that machine rather than overload the Parallel XP install with double installations of everything I need.  I managed to get the Oki Okipage 4W (1996 Win3.1/95 laser beauty) cranked up and printing on the Parallel XP Install so I can go on with my life but it is getting tedious to keep switching machines......

I put the /sos switch in the boot.ini on both installations and like I said, in the original XP, it stops at the Win XP NT 5.1, 1 processor, 922MB memory blue page.  The Parallel XP does that same screen, but then shortly proceeds to show a list of things like Drive C: clean, Drive D: clean, Drive E: clean, etc. very quickly and then loads the Desktop.  Now, what does the Parallel XP have that the Original XP doesn't at that point, that would say, Go Ahead, check those drives and load that Desktop?  MBR?  Partition Table?  I strongly feel that once those babies are properly configured that the Original XP install will boot..... and no, I am NOT on drugs.... just optimism!  lol

So I am going to try Partition Table Doctor and maybe BootMaster and some others to at least "see" what the problem is, even if I can't correct it immediately.  I have read some interesting stuff about how the MBR and Partition Table work (detailed) and that area has my greatest suspicions.  A single bit could be the problem...... As BootMaster offers to analyze their Diagnostics Log for free! I am considering imposing upon them as I do have the log done for the Original XP install..... If they say "just buy our proggy and hit "MBR/Partition Table Restore"  and boot into your Original XP, I will spring for the US$30...... but as it is a DataRecovery service, I suspect they may say send us the drive....  maybe I am being paranoid.....

Your opinions, comments and tolerance are always appreciated....





Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 29th, 2005 at 1:16pm
olamoree


Quote:
to reinstall in the Original XP, which, in my opinion, is not "fixed" enough to trust an overwrite of what I have preserved so far.... and the dread of losing the files of the Original XP because of a bad Ghost Restore.....

Well, your understanding of what a Ghost restore will do is on the wrong track--it does not simply write to files that are already on the partition--leaving the ones that are there in place, and only changing the ones that are *different* or *missing*--the partition is essentially re-formatted--all the data from the previous install will be gone--only the restored data will be present--the parallel OS will never have existed as far as the restored OS is concerned--it will be as if time stood still since you created that image.


Quote:
then the possible complications of using the Parallel XP to reinstall in the Original XP,

You will not be using the Parallel XP to restore the OS partition--you will use the Parallel XP to create the *Recovery Disk* from which you will boot to the *Recovery Environment*--so no active OS from the HDD--you can not restore the OS on the HDD from the active OS on the HDD--so you have to boot to the *Recovery Environment*, which is a *Win PE* OS (PE = pre-install environment)--which is a Windows *lite* OS that is running from RAM--not from the HDD.  The HDD can not be in use by the OS if you are restoring the OS!


Quote:
Yes, I KNOW that that is what Ghost is supposed to be for but it does not have my trust in such a situation.

I would use Ghost 10.x's *Recovery Disk*  to *clone* the problem HDD to a spare HDD--remove the original HDD for safe keeping and putting the spare *cloned* HDD in the place of the original.  Then proceed with the restore on the *spare HDD* to see if all goes well.  No harm comes to the original if you run into problems--you simply start over and correct the problem(s).


Quote:
Now, what does the Parallel XP have that the Original XP doesn't at that point, that would say, Go Ahead, check those drives and load that Desktop?  MBR?  Partition Table?

I actually think it's a driver conflict--something is either not loading or is misbehaving and colliding with some other software during the WinXP boot process--the fact that the Parallel XP OS loads tends to rule out MBR and partition tables--the stopping point for your original WinXP is where XP is beginning to load its files for continued booting--and that's where it's hanging--you are past the initial boot process for the MBR and partition tables.


Quote:
I strongly feel that once those babies are properly configured that the Original XP install will boot.....

Nothing wrong with optimism--but I think you are looking at the wrong issue(s)--as noted above.


Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Nov 30th, 2005 at 1:44pm
olamoree

I ran across this reference--hard to say if it has relevance to your situation--but may be worth a look:

How to Repair Corrupt master file table (windows 2000 domain controller will not boot)

Don't focus on the *Windows 2000*, but instead on the tools and steps that were followed to repair the problem.


Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by olamoree on Dec 2nd, 2005 at 1:04pm
Hi NightOwn and thanks for the tip.

There have been developments...... good ones and problems.

I removed the 2nd Physical drive (NTFS) that wasn't showing up in MyComputer, but every place else, unplugged the CD drives (2) and restarted in Parallel XP and everything looked fine, but the 1st physical drive showed up as C: and D: (two partitions, primary C:) and the ex-3rd Physical drive, now the 2nd, showed up as F: --apparently it was saving the E: for something else!  And when I plugged in the two CD drives again, they register as E: and G: ...all that to say that now proggys aren't where they are expected to be.

When I rebooted during all of this, I clicked on the Original XP install, just to see what would happen and miracle-of-miracles, there was the /sos screen showing ACTIVITY!!!  doing a chkdsk and the boot continued to an XP install in progress at 39 minutes, probably a remnant of one of my "repair installs" of weeks ago, and then proceeding nicely and viola, when the reboot arrived, there was my old desktop with everything scattered about on it!  

I checked out what I had and was pleased..... Altho there are still many things still trapped on the NTFS drive, I can deal with it.  So as I was still in SP 0, I tried to install SP1 and the Original XP install where I am administrator and Users, Power User too, would not allow acceptance of my Admin login, thus SP1 (on MS disk) would NOT install.  So, being brave, I tried the MS Disk for SP2 after running System Mechanic 5 Prow and cleaning out trash and defragging and getting Ckhdsk /f and all that in order.  An hour after starting, pop, the computer reboots, runs a chkdsk on the C: drive and "corrects errors", reports that the install failed and to uninstall SP2 in Control Panel and start over.  Okey, I have started over 4 times now.... a couple of hours or more for each intent, but "something" is breaking the install.  To confirm the MS CD good, I booted into Parallel XP and ran SP2....went like a breeze, and then went to WinUpdate and installed all the rest of the MS crap from since SP2 and the Parallel XP is up-to-date completely and runs fine..... except it has no programs.  I had 15 Gigs on the C: partition and with Original XP and Parallel XP SP2, the disk ran out of space and had to PartitionMagic 8 to add room to the C: drive, dealing with Error 2003, dealing with it giving me Unallocated Space instead of More Space and then recovering the Unallocated Space into the C: drive where I now have 22 Gigs but with those huge files that SP2 creates to "go back", I only have 1.7 Gigs left on that drive!!!  (Yes, I DID make new PM8 Rescue Disks!)

I might mention that thru this I am getting several BSOD's where Win was shut down to "protect" me...mostly 000007E's and then it takes 6 minutes to do the "physical memory dump"......  When it reboots, it says that it has recovered from a "serious error" and wants to send report to MS and it lists a bunch of "BCC Codes" mentioning the SP2 install disk.....???

Should I try installing SP2 in Safe Mode?  Should I read the WinXP install on Radified?  Is there something I could do to ease the SP2 install?  Don't have any PCI cards to yank out.  Could stop one CD drive and the 2nd HDD to "lighten the load"... what do you recommend?

Oh, Ghost 10.  The proggy is on the NTFS HDD that Original XP will not yet recognize...... and I am getting notices that my Ghost 10 has expired.....

The great thing is that whatever it was has repaired itself without apparent data loss and I am on the way again.  Your comments are appreciated.

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Dec 3rd, 2005 at 12:01pm
olamoree

As before--Wow!  Interesting recovery and results--based on you original install XP install re-appearing after removing the other HDD and the optical drives--I'm guessing something was effecting (interfering) the drive letter assignments--the system was not able to follow the *correct path*--did you add any hardware (HDD's or optical drives) or change where hardware was hooked up to back when all the problems began?


Quote:
I might mention that thru this I am getting several BSOD's where Win was shut down to "protect" me...mostly 000007E's and then it takes 6 minutes to do the "physical memory dump"......  When it reboots, it says that it has recovered from a "serious error" and wants to send report to MS and it

You can change this behavior.  Go to My Computer, right mouse click on it, select Properties, Advanced tab, *Startup and recovery* settings, in *System Failure* select *None* under Write debugging information--and if you do not want WinXP to automatically re-boot if a system error occurs (so you can see the error message), uncheck *Automatically restart*.

Then, go to *Error Reporting* on the Advanced tab, and make your choices there.


Quote:
Should I try installing SP2 in Safe Mode?  Should I read the WinXP install on Radified?  Is there something I could do to ease the SP2 install?  Don't have any PCI cards to yank out.

Really don't know what to say here--you said you were able to do the SP2 upgrade on the Parallel WinXP install--you have during your trouble shooting tried so many *fixes* that it's hard to say where the original WinXP is at--now that you have access again--perhaps a *repair* install would solve the issues--but, I don't know.

I do know that on my system, when I first tried to install WinXP--it refused with repeated BSOD's critical errors--removing my sound card and network card until after the initial install and then letting WinXP re-detect each device with a re-boot in between each re-installing of the device was necessary.  I was installing WinXP with SP2 slip-streamed with the original WinXP SP1.


Quote:
Oh, Ghost 10.  The proggy is on the NTFS HDD that Original XP will not yet recognize...... and I am getting notices that my Ghost 10 has expired.....  

So, it was a *trial* version--well your image is still there and may be a good backup if you checked it's integrity, etc.--but you'll need the program to access it.

By the way--are you doing any backups prior to trying all these major trouble shooting efforts--or SP2 upgrades, etc.--if *No*--you're flying *solo* as far as potentially loosing it all  ;) !

So, even though your original WinXP is up and running, that HDD that was previously recognized in the original WinXP before the problems began--still is not recognized now?!--but, it is recognized by the Parallel WinXP install?

You could try making WinXP *forget* its previous drive letter assignments and have it re-detect and re-assign drive letters--but, be cautious--if your bootup depends on drive letter assignments that could be different if WinXP re-detects and assigns new drive letters that are different from the original--the boot process may get lost!

Fixing Windows 2000/XP Drive Letters

Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by olamoree on Dec 14th, 2005 at 12:25am
Hi NightOwl..... Defying gravity!  What went up is now down!  I was doing some clean up work on the Resurrected XP Original Install and trying to get some of the files off of the ex-Physical Drive 2 (NTFS) and had R-Studio demo running.  Closed it down and went to bed.  Next day..... Took 1 minute to show onboard memory,  2 minutes to List IDE devices, two more minutes of wait to get to the IRQ table, and three more minutes to get the message, "Partition Table Invalid!"   Yikes!  Reboot, took 6 minutes before the Del key would bring up the BIOS and it misreported the AMD XP2500+ (as an AMD 1100) and so reset the CMOS on the M/B.  STILL, POST slower than anything since Pentium 1!  

Would appreciate some ideas on recovering the Partition Table.  Read the M$ KB articles on it and it pretty much says that if you didn't know what it was before the problem, you can't "reconstruct" it.  It is time to spring for BootMaster?  What are my options?  Tempted to "reinstall" XP SP2 over what there is now, which seemed to work before....would that rebuild the MBR and Partition Table?  I can still boot from XP CD ...... if I wait long enough....  Thanks again....


Title: Re: Test Bootable Floppy
Post by NightOwl on Dec 14th, 2005 at 11:14am
olamoree

To be honest--this is completely uncharted territory for me!  I do not know where to begin.

I can only offer 20/20 hindsight--if it had been me, I would, prior to making any major changes, create a Ghost image of the currently working system--personally, I use *whole* drive images and not individual partition images--*whole* drive images seem to offer a safer route to restoring if the Master Boot Record gets trashed--or similar issues.  

Then proceed to make changes.  If I discover that a problem was created by my efforts, I'd boot to DOS Ghost, restore my good, working OS, and start the changes again--trying to avoid the problem that was created the last time.

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