On my Win98 desktop, Network Neighbourhood is completely missing as far as I have been able to tell. Without it, I can't share files and a printer over the network between the desktop and my wireless XP laptop. My network consists of a router/access point to which the desktop is wired by an Ethernet card and cable. The laptop has a wireless card. Both computers can successfully access the Internet via the router/access point, which is wired to a cable modem, but neither can see files on the other one, and the laptop can't print to the printer that is wired to the desktop. Does anyone know a way to retrieve Network Neighbourhood or know of a workaround for this situation?

Harold

Any reason you know of as to why the 'Network Neighborhood' system folder has gone 'missing'--something you did--or some other program did for you--or some other member of the family 'did' behind your back'?

You should be able to 'share' folders and printers without 'Network Neighborhood' being present.  In Win98 you have to have printer and file sharing set up in 'Control Panel>>Network'.  Here's how my 'Network' looks after clicking on the Control Panel 'Network' icon:

http://nightowl.radified.com/forumimages/win98networking.jpg

Are you using any software firewalls, like ZoneAlarm?  You may have to configure that to allow each computer to see the other--and you may have to have either drives or folders set to share for something to be 'seen' by the other computer.

Here's a doc that you can either download or open that has an outline of several things to try:

How To Restore Missing Network Neighborhood Icon

You may be able to restore the 'Network Neighborhood' desktop folder using TweakUI v1.33 for Win98--download available here:

Download TweakUI

You may want to check your registry setting--this talks about 'hiding' the icon, but also show the setting for not hiding it as well:

Hide the Network Neighborhood Icon (All Windows) Popular

Let us know what the results are...

NightOwl,

Back when I got my Win 98 desktop, it was not part of any network and I thought it never would be. I had trouble connecting to the Internet and I became convinced that Network Neighborhood had something to do with it. I tried to get rid of it and found someone on the Web who helped me do it. After that, Internet connection indeed seemed far less complicated and I was happy not to have that icon on the desktop. That is, up until I got my wireless XP laptop and began to have ambitions about sharing files between the two computers and sharing a printer that is wired to the desktop. So I get a wireless router/access point and set up a little network. Shared Internet connections for browsing and e-mail worked fine from the start, but no Wizard or network troubleshooter has been able to get file and printer sharing to work. I keep seeing everywhere messages saying that a network cable is unplugged but doubt if that could be the case, since the Internet connection works.

Thanks very much for the information, instuctions and links in your reply. You have raised my hopes after months of discouragement. I will start working through your suggestions and report what happens.

NightOwl,

I went to the link you gave me: "How to restore missing NN ... etc." and in following the third step involving editing the registry, found that in my desktop registry the key ending with "\NoNetHood"  was indeed present. I deleted it as instructed, closed the registry (carefully) and returned to the desktop. However, the Network Neighborhood icon did not reappear on the desktop, even after rebooting. I'm hopeful that this is the first step in getting NN back, but I think there is something more yet to be done. Perhaps there is some other  place to look for it or something else that has to be done to complete the restoration.

Harold

I would try the TweakUI program to bring back the 'Network Neighborhood'.

Alternatively, this article suggests un-installing 'Client for Microsoft Networks' and then reinstalling it to re-establish the 'Network Neighborhood':

How can the Windows Network Neighborhood icon be restored if it is missing?

NightOwl,

I uninstalled and reinstalled 'Client for Microsoft Networks' and went through the 'Tweak UI' procedure, but without success in getting Network Neighbourhood to reappear. Also checked the registry to make sure that I had successfully gotten rid of the 'NoNetHood' key in 'HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\ Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\Explorer\NoNetHood'. It is gone.

From your first message: "You should be able to 'share' folders and printers without 'Network Neighborhood' being present.  In Win98 you have to have printer and file sharing set up in 'Control Panel>>Network'.  Here's how my 'Network' looks after clicking on the Control Panel 'Network' icon:"

I made my 'Network' settings the same as yours.

Perhaps after doing these things I should now go through the networking wizard again to see if anything has changed. I'll do that later tonight and let you know how it comes out.  

NightOwl,

I went through Network Wizard again on my laptop after first checking settings on both computers for Network Client, TSP/IP protocol, services (file and printer sharing) and making sure computer and network names were consistent in both computers. In the wizard, I still see the message that the desktop connection to the network is unplugged and sharing does not happen. I think the "unplugged cable" may be referring to the missing Network Neighbourhood because nothing is physically unplugged. You mentioned that networking can be done on a Win 98 computer without Network Neighbourhood. Maybe it's time to explore that possibility. Can you point me in that direction?

Harold

Harold

You have a router.  Your Win98 desktop is able to connect to the internet fine, but 'Network Neighborhood' is gone from that system.  Your laptop is WinXP and it says your Win98 system is not found (connected).  But, your laptop also connects to the internet just fine.

1.  Are you using a software firewall on the Win98 system?

2.  Are you using a software firewall on the WinXP system?

3.  On the Win98 system, do the following:  Start>>Run>>type 'winipcfg' and click 'Okay'.

Select your 'Network Card' from the drop-down box.

Then click on the 'More infor>>' button.

a.  What's the 'Host Name'?
b.  What's the 'DNS Servers' number?
c.  What's the 'IP Address' number?
d.  What's the 'Subnet Mask' number?
e.  What's the 'Default Gateway' number?
f.  What's the 'DHPC Server' number?
g.  What other boxes have information in them?

The answers to the above questions will set up the next step.

Waiting....

NightOwl,

No firewall on Win98 computer

Microsoft firewall (in SP2) on XP laptop

At Network Card > More Info:

   Host Name     LAPTOP HOME (names of the laptop & workgroup)
   DNS Server    128.143.2.7
   IP Address      192.168.0.1
   Subnet Mask   255.255.255.0
   Default Gateway  blank
   DHPC Server       blank

Other filled boxes:

   Node Type       Broadcast
   NetBIOS Res. Uses DNS  box checked
   Adapter Address  00-0C-41-E7-24-18
   Linksys LNE 100TXI(v5) Fast Ethernet

Harold

Harold

What router do you have--name, brand, and model #?

You may not have your home network set up properly.

Do you have any documentation on your router?

NightOwl,

The router/access point is:

Linksys Wireless G Broadband, Model WRT54GS v1.1

Documentation is on installation dIsk.

Harold

NightOwl,

1:23 AM here and I'm headed for bed. Back in about 6 hours.

Harold

Harold

I want to confirm that the User Guide you have matches what I have down loaded:

Linksys, WRT54G, User Guide, pdf file with 61 pages--last manual page no. is 113--same?

Is that the same as you have on the installation disk?

PDF page 11 has the settings for Win98 and ME, the manual page is 14--same?

NightOwl,

The Linksys router User Guide on my disk is a PDF file with a total of 106 PDF pages (97 manual pages), including Chapters 1 thru 6 and Appendices A thru J. It has a publication number on PDF page 2 at the lower left: 'WRT54GS - UG - 40908ABW'. There isn't a separate section for Win98 and ME.

Harold

Harold

Does this link appear to be your rounter:

http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=33&scid=35&prid=610

The manual I downloaded from here is:  UG-WRT54G-122402A JL.  Still doesn't say WRT54GS.

How did you set up your network and router for your desktop Win98 system?  Did you follow directions that came with the router, or did you get directions from your ISP provider?

The reason I think the network is set up incorrectly it that above you said the 'winipcfg' program returned the IP address of 192.168.0.1 for your Win98 system--but that address should be the router's LAN (local area network) address.  And your Win98 system should be 192.168.0.2, or 192.168.0.3, or 192.168.0.4, etc.

And the LAN's DNS (dynamic name server) should be the router's address--192.168.0.1

So, I need to know if your ISP (internet service provider) has some custom setup that they require that you followed, or if it's possibly just a mis-configuration of the network.

NightOwl,

Yes, that link describes and shows the router I have and gives exactly the same model number except it doesn't have the version number at the end (v1.1). I suspect the version number doesn't matter much because it is different on the equipment and in the PDF file.

The 'S' at the end of the model number stands for Speed Enhanced if that helps.

I set up my router after the ISP had installed the cable modem and had made the settings on my Win98 computer that it is wired to. He didn't know I was going to add the router. I followed very simple, heavily illustrated instructions in a file on the installation disk. The instructions appeared on the Win98 computer screen. There were no mishaps or error messages or messages of any kind, only the instructions and something like 'Successfully Completed' at the end. The ISP doesn't even know the router has been added as far as I know.

When I first finished installing the router, the Internet connection wasn't shared with my laptop, and I had to go into the Windows Firewall on the laptop (the Firewall came with SP2) and put in one exception to get the Internet connection working for the laptop. It  is 'UPnP'. Since then, more exceptions have appeared, including 'File and Printer Sharing'.

Harold

Harold

Ok--it sounds like you do not have a 'custom' setup--you have cable...

So, do you have a 'summary' sheet from your cable ISP that shows the necessary data that has to be entered to access your account--you will need that info to set up the router correctly.

When you initially had just the cable modem and the Win98 desktop--you (or the installer) entered the needed access data into the 'Network' settings menus in Win98.  That 'network' software of Win98 then talked through the cable modem to your ISP and the rest of the internet.

When you add the router, you now need to configure the router to do the job that the 'Network' settings and software on the Win98 desktop was doing.  The router will access your ISP in place of your Win98 desktop.  And the router will be the access point that your Win98 desktop and your laptop access to make the jump to your ISP.

So, again, do you have those settings that you need to gain access to your ISP--did you have to enter those into the WinXP laptop so it could access the internet?


Quote:

The ISP doesn't even know the router has been added as far as I know.

You'd be surprised what they know!  But, you can probably set the router up to 'spoof' the MAC address of the original network card on the Win98 desktop that they 'do' know about for sure, and they will not know that other 'network cards' with different MAC addresses are using that internet connection 'behind' the router.

So, you need that 'access' data because we will be deleting it from the Win98 desktop and entering it into the router--

Let me know when your ready...

NightOwl,

In checking network settings just before I repeated the Network Wizard yesterday, I think I may have goofed up the IP addresss for the desktop. I can't get to it right now because my equipment is in the cellar which is being torn up today to fix a water problem. Should be able to get in there this evening around 6 PM EST (US East Coast).

Harold

NightOwl,

I don't have a 'summary' sheet from my ISP. I have only a few notes giving my User Name and Password, the names of the mail servers and the ISP's phone number. If you tell me what access data is needed specifically, I'll call my ISP and ask for it.

Harold

Harold

The needed information should already be in your 'Network' settings if you can access the internet via your ISP.  Here is the outline for my NetGear Router of how to get the information from the 'Network' item in Control Panel:


Quote:

Login Protocols Some ISPs require a special login protocol. In this case, you will need to know what type of protocol is used, and you will need a login name and password. The two common protocols are: • PPP over Ethernet (PPPoE) Two common PPPoE clients are WinPOET and EntreNet. • RoadRunner Not all RoadRunner service areas require a login protocol. If your ISP is RoadRunner, you should ask whether your PC must run a RoadRunner login program. After your network and router are configured, the router will perform the login task when needed, and you will no longer need to login from your PC. Account Information Unless these items are dynamically assigned by the ISP, your ISP should give you the following basic information for your account: • An IP address and subnet mask • A gateway IP address, which is the address of the ISP’s router • One or more domain name server (DNS) IP addresses • Host name and domain suffix For example, your account’s full server names may look like this: mail.xxx.yyy.com In this example, the domain suffix is xxx.yyy.com. If any of these items are dynamically supplied by the ISP, your router automatically acquires them. If an ISP technician configured your PC during the installation of the broadband modem, or if you configured it using instructions provided by your ISP, you need to copy configuration information from your PC’s Network TCP/IP Properties window (or Macintosh TCP/IP Control Panel) before reconfiguring your PC for use with the router. These procedures are described next. Obtaining ISP Configuration Information (Windows) As mentioned above, you may need to collect configuration information from your PC so that you can use this information when you configure the Model RP114 router. Following this procedure is only necessary when your ISP does not dynamically supply the account information. To get the information you need to configure the router for Internet access: 1. On the Windows taskbar, click the Start button, point to Settings, and then click Control Panel. 2. Double-click the Network icon. The Network window opens, which displays a list of installed components. 3. Select TCP/IP, and then click Properties. (NightOwl note:  this is the TCP/IP that has your network card listed with it.) The TCP/IP Properties dialog box opens. 4. Select the IP Address tab. If an IP address and subnet mask are shown, write down the information. If an address is present, your account uses a fixed (static) IP address. If no address is present, your account uses a dynamically-assigned IP address. Click “Obtain an IP address automatically”. 5. Select the Gateway tab.   If an IP address appears under Installed Gateways, write down the address. This is the ISP’s gateway address. Select the address and then click Remove to remove the gateway address. 6. Select the DNS Configuration tab. If any DNS server addresses are shown, write down the addresses. If any information appears in the Host or Domain information box, write it down. Click Disable DNS. 7. Click OK to save your changes and close the TCP/IP Properties dialog box. You are returned to the Network window. 8. Click OK. 9. Reboot your PC at the prompt. You may also be prompted to insert your Windows CD.

So, go to the Control Panel applet 'Network', find you TCP/IP that is associated with your network card (NIC), and look at the info in the tabs mentioned above.  Record the settings that you find.

Does your ISP require 'special login procedures'--I suspect not for a cable system.

Is your log in to a static address or is it dynamically assigned--again I suspect dynamiclly assigned for a cable system.

When you installed your router--did you run the 'setup wizard' that's on the router's installation CD mentioned in the user manual?

Report back the results of gathering the information.

Harold

Note:  in some of the steps outlined for my router above-it says to change some settings in the TCP/IP properties of the 'Network' applet of Control Panel--I have highlited them in yellow (some other items are yellow too).  

Those setting changes will be the changes you need to make if your Win98 'Network' settings are not as mentioned in the outline above, when you are ready to configure your router and LAN (local are network) settings.

NightOwl,

My ISP --  Road Runner -- does not require a login protocol.

IP Address, Subnet Mask, Gateway IP Address, Host Name and Domain Suffix are all dynamically assigned by the ISP.

In Control Panel > Network > TCP/IP > Properties > IP Address tab, there was an IP Address = 192.168.0.1 and a Subnet Mask = 255.255.255.0. I clicked "Obtain an IP address automatically" and those items grayed out.

On the Gateway tab there were three addresses:
  128.143.2.7
  128.143.22.119
  128.143.3.7
On this same tab Host = "LAPTOP" and Domain = "HOME"
I clicked "Disable DNS".  
Okayed out of TCP/IP and Network and rebooted.

When I installed my router, I ran the Setup Wizard on the Installation CD that came with the router. It's a very simple thing that mostly illustrates how to connect things and does all the settings behind the scenes.

Harold

Harold

Quoting from the downloaded manual for your router:


Quote:

To access the Web-based Utility, launch Internet Explorer or Netscape Navigator, and enter the Router’s default IP address, 192.168.1.1, in the Address field. Then, press Enter. A password request page will appear. (Non-Windows XP users will see a similar screen.) Leave the User Name field blank. The first time you open the Web-based Utility, use the default password admin. (You can set a new password from the Administration tab’s Management screen.) Click the OK button to continue.

You should follow the above instructions and open the router's settings utility.

On the 'Basic Setup' page, you should have these settings:

Internet Setup:  Automatic Configuration - DHCP
Network Setup:  Router IP Address:  192.168.1.1

DHCP Server:  Enabled
Starting Address:  192.168.1.100

(Your Win98 setting was static at 192.168.0.1--I think this may be the reason you couldn't inter-connect with the router and the other laptop!)

Save your setting.

The next tab to check it the 'MAC Address Clone':

Because your cable ISP set things up when you had just the Win98 desktop, the MAC address is the address of the network card on the Win98 desktop.  You found that earlier when you ran the 'winipcfg' program:  Adapter Address  00-0C-41-E7-24-18.  

So if you want the router to send out the original net card MAC address to your ISP--that's the number you should plug in here.

Save your settings.

The above are the critical items--there are a lot of other 'Advanced' settings that can be made and adjusted, but not for now...

Go to the 'Status' tab, and record the information there for your 'Router' and 'Local Network'.

Exit the router utility.  Shut down the Win98 system.  Unplug or turn off the router.  Unplug or turn off the cable modem.

Restart the cable modem after a couple minutes.  After it's done doing its start up tests, restart the router.  After it's done doing its start up tests, restart the computer.

Run 'winipcfg' again and see what you get.

For your WinXP laptop--you probably need to delete the old network settings and run the network wizard to establish a new network connection.

In theory, you should be able to follow normal instructions to set up sharing between the two computers at this point for files and printers.

NightOwl,

I went to the router's settings data on the Web and they were all as you had stated them in your last message with the exception of the MAC address, which has a 'B' instead of an '8' for the final character. I wonder if I misread it and gave it to you incorrectly or entered it incorrectly somewhere. I don't know if I should change it.

After going thru the above steps, the Status tab reads as follows:

Firmware Version: v3.37.1, Oct. 18, 2004    
     Current Time: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:22:01    
     MAC Address: 00:0C:41:E7:24:1B    
     Router Name: WRT54GS      
     Host Name: desktop      
     Domain Name: rochester.rr.com      
Internet
     
Configuration Type
    Login Type: Automatic Configuration - DHCP    
     IP Address: 66.66.183.172    
    Subnet Mask: 255.255.254.0    
    Default Gateway: 66.66.182.1    
     DNS 1: 24.92.226.9    
     DNS 2:      
     DNS 3:      
     MTU: 1400

I am now going to shut down the Win 98 PC, router and modem and then restart them in the order you described in your last message.

Then I will run Network Wizard on my laptop.

Then I will make other settings needed for file and printer sharing. (Not sure I know all that's required.)

I'll report back on how it goes.

Harold

PS Should I change the MAC address before proceeding?

Harold

Re-run the 'winipcfg' on the Win98 desktop system--check what the 'Adapter Address' says--that's the MAC address of your network card on that system.

Your IPS probably is not using that for access--but they probably use it to monitor how many different network cards are using their system--they have the original MAC number from when they installed the cable modem, and now that MAC number (if it's different) that the router is 'cloning' and sending out when it talks to the ISP.

So, should you change it--probably not necessary at this point.

NightOwl,

After going through the procedure you sent, I shut down and restarted the Win 98 PC, the modem and the router, then ran winipcfg and looked at IP Configuration data, which were as follows:

Linksys LNE 100TX(v5) Fast Ethernet
Adapter Address     00-0C-41-E7-24-1B
IP Address         192.168.1.101
Subnet Mask      255.255.255.0
Default Gateway    192.168.1.1

More Info:

Host Name  DESKTOP.rochester.rr.comDEST
DNS Server  24.92.226.9
Node Type   Broadcast
DHCP Server  192.168.1.1

I then went through Network Wizard on the XP laptop and still saw the "Network cable disconnected" message, ignored it and went to completion.

I'm not sure what to do next to see if the sharing situation has changed. I think I will try to print from a file in the laptop to the printer wired to the desktop and see what happens.

Harold

Harold

Looks like the router is now assigning the IP address for the Win98 desktop's network card.

For printing with a shared network printer, you need to make sure the Win98 'Network' applet in Control Panel says 'File and Printer' sharing is enabled.

Then on the WinXP laptop that's hooked up to the router, go to the 'Printers' applet in Control Panel and use the 'Add a printer' wizard.  You will want to select 'a network' printer and then 'browse' to the 'Desktop' system and it's shared printer.

Report back with results...

Harold

We should also check the WinXP laptop network summary:

Start>>Run>>type 'cmd' and click OK

At the command prompt, type 'ipconfig/all'

Summary results?

Harold

Just so you know--I'm out of town for a few days--so, I'm not ignoring you--I'm just not here!

NightOwl,

Here is the Win XP laptop network summary (Run > cmd
> ipconfig/all). Not sure what it all means but I'll study it while you're away. --
 
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Harold Pohl>ipconfig/all

Windows IP Configuration

       Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : LAPTOP
       Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
       Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
       IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
       WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
       DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : rochester.rr.com

Ethernet adapter Wireless Network Connection:

       Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : rochester.rr.com
       Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2200BG Network
Connection
       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0E-35-13-12-E8
       Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
       Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
       IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
       Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
       Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
       DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
       DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 24.92.226.9
                                           fec0:0:0:ffff::1%2
                                           fec0:0:0:ffff::2%2
                                           fec0:0:0:ffff::3%2
       Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Friday, June 17, 2005 5:34:08 AM
       Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Saturday, June 18, 2005 5:34:08 AM

Ethernet adapter HOME:

       Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
       Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) PRO/100 VE Network Connecti
on
       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0E-7B-A1-79-00

Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

       Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
       Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF
       Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
       IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5445:5245:444f%6
       Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
       NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

       Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : rochester.rr.com
       Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface

       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : C0-A8-01-64
       Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
       IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5efe:192.168.1.100%2
       Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
       DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%2
                                           fec0:0:0:ffff::2%2
                                           fec0:0:0:ffff::3%2
       NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

C:\Documents and Settings\Harold Pohl>


PS  I wonder what the following means:

'Ethernet adapter HOME:

  Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected '

NightOwl,

With all the local area network and Internet settings as described previously, I went through all of the printer and printer sharing settings I could find in both the Win 98 desktop and the XP laptop. Then, in the Printers and Faxes folder, I found there were four items: Fax, HP Deskjet 722C (my only printer, which is wired to the desktop by a parallel cable), Microsoft Office Document Image Writer, and something called HP PRINTER ON DESKTOP. I recognized this last item as a name I had assigned to my only printer while making one of the sharing settings. There were sharing hands under the icons for the HP DEskjet 722C and the Microsoft Office Document Image Writer, and the HP 722C had a check mark next to it indicating it was the default printer. Leaving these as they were, I then attempted to send a document from the laptop to the printer over my wireless network for printing. No error messages occurred. The printing dialog box appeared and I okayed it, a progress bar did its thing and all looked well. But it didn't print.

I returned to the Printers and Fax folder and changed the default printer to the HP PRINTER ON DESKTOP, then tried printing again. Bingo. It worked, and I am very happy about that. I think it implies that successful file sharing is also close at hand. But I am puzzled by why there are two printers shown in the Printers and Fax folder when I have only one, and why the one that is now designated as the default pinter has no sharing hand under its icon when it is obviously sharing. (The other one still does have a hand under it.) No doubt it's due to erroneous settings I made somewhere. I would like to get rid of the second printer icon and get a sharing hand under the printer icon that works, to avoid any later confusion,  but I am reluctant to disturb settings i don't really understand that are somehow working. I need advice.

Harold

NightOwl,

With printer sharing working (though with a few unresolved questions; see previous message), I made all the file sharing settings I could find on both the desktop and the laptop. Since I am the only user, I set things up to fully share the C: disks of both computers without passwords or other restrictions. After doing this, I was able to access the Win 98 desktop files from the XP laptop over the wireless network. However, I couldn't go the other way. If Network Neighbourhood were present, I think it would work now, but in attempting to find an alternative to NN (the Run function for example), I think I didn't use the right name for the laptop's C: drive. I received an error message saying the file I was trying to access wasn't logged in. I wonder where to look for the correct name to use, or if something else needs to be done.

Harold

Harold

I was glad to read that you are getting things sorted out!

Here's a reference that may help a bit more:

Set Up a Workgroup

Over on the right side, there are 'Related Articles' that talk about 'file sharing' and 'printer sharing'.

In particular--looks like you want all the computers on 'your' network to share the same 'network' or 'group' name--while each individual computer will have it's own unique name.

As for the printer--can you go to the Control Panel applet for 'Printers' and 'right-click' the specific printer and then select either 'sharing' or 'properties', and on the next menu screen select the 'sharing' tab.  Here, you can select to share or not to share and that should make the printer icon show if it's shared or not.

Sounds like you may have installed the printer driver for your printer more than once, and that's why you have 'extra' printers listed.  I think you can simply uninstall your printer drivers, and then reinstall, and follow the guidelines in the above reference to get everything set up properly.

Report back with your procress...

NightOwl,

Happy to report that file sharing on my wireless network is now working in both directions, from laptop to desktop and from desktop to laptop, and printer sharing is working as well. I don't have Network Neighbourhood back on the Win 98 computer, which I had hoped to do, but as far as I can tell,  everything can be done that could be done if Network Neighbourhood were back. I can use either the Run function or the Find function on the Win 98 computer in place of Network Neighborhood to access the laptop computer files.

The network sharing from desktop to laptop was being prevented because I hadn't realized that the user is required to log in on the desktop at startup to gain permission to access files over the network. As soon as I did that, it began working. I think Microsoft's error message for this situation could be improved. It did mention that something was not logged in but it sounded to me like it was the files in the laptop, not the user of the desktop, that were not logged in.

From the desktop, I am still denied access to some files on the laptop, but I assume this is just a matter of going to those files and marking them as shared in some way (or I may need to log in as the administrator). In particular, I am interested in accessing the DVD drive on the laptop to answer a question that I started this whole thread to answer, and started another thread on Ghost 2003 image recording over a wireless network to answer, namely: can Ghost 2003 send a hard disk image over a wireless network and cause it to be recorded and verified directly on a DVD drive in another computer on the network. I recall there were some posts speculating on whether this was possible. I will report what I find out.

I thank you for guiding me through this whole process of straightening out my network settings and getting my printer and file sharing working. With my sketchy understanding of these things, there were too many variables for me to handle and I wouldn't have been able to do it. It means a lot to me to be able to sit in some comfortable spot upstairs, or even outdoors, with my laptop and send print jobs to the printer in my spartan cellar, then go down later to collect them. I can also sit outdoors in the sun with appropriate refreshment and work on files in the computer in the cellar.

Using computers can be fun, when it's not otherwise!

Harold

PS - I meant to say that your cure also worked for my problem of having two printers showing in my Printers folder, and elswhere, when I actually have only one printer. Removal of a redundant driver from the computer fixed the problem. Now the remainimg printer icon has the sharing hand under it as well as the default checkmark next to it.

Harold

Good to hear of your success!

I wasn't 100 %, but pretty sure that you didn't need 'Network Neighborhood' for sharing.

Did you ever try the TweakUI program to restore the 'Network Neighborhood?  

If 'No', you might still give that a try--I would do the following steps:  1.  Download and install TweakUI v1.33 for Win98 on the Win98 desktop system, 2.  Use TeadkUI to make sure the setting for 'Network Neighborhood' is to 'show' icon on desktop,  3.  Reboot  4.  If still no icon, uninstall and then reinstall 'Client for Microsoft Networks' in the 'Network' Control Panel applet, 5.  Re-boot.  

If still no 'Network Neighborhood', I'm out of ideas for now!

I think I can save you from additional trial and error time testing saving a Ghost image from one computer to an optical writer on another computer:

Using Ghost to save or write an image to a different computer

Under 'Technical Information':


Quote:

Ghost does not support saving an image file directly to a CD-R, CD-RW, DVD, or similar device when the source image is on one computer and the device is attached to a different computer. However, Ghost can save in image file directly to a CD-R, CD-RW, or DVD drive when that drive is attached to the local computer.

and here:

How to save an image file directly to a CD/DVD R/RW disc

Under 'Solution':


Quote:

The Burner must be attached directly to the computer where the Source data is stored.

NightOwl,

I did try using TweakUI to get Network Neighbourhood back previously but will try it again using your steps. I'm not greatly concerned anymore with getting Network Neighbourhood back except for the feeling of completeness of my Windows 98 software. And I think it would be a little easier to click the NN icon on the desktop rather than use the Run or Find function to access the local network.

Thanks for the references to statements that Ghost 2003 can't record an image directly to a DVD drive on a remote computer.  No doubt that's the case, and it seems to be borne out by my experience using BartPE networking. I may try it with Windows networking anyway, on the basis of this experience: When I first had trouble trying to share my printer wired to my Win 98 desktop with the laptop, I contacted Hewlett Packard and asked if my HP Deskjet 722C printer was compatible with the Windows XP OS on my laptop and I could therefore hope to share it . They did some digging in their technical files and came back with the answer, Sorry, they are not compatible; it can't work. I'm glad I tried it anyway.

Harold

Harold wrote on Jun 20^th, 2005 at 12:30pm:

"... When I first had trouble trying to share my printer wired to my Win 98 desktop with the laptop, I contacted Hewlett Packard and asked if my HP Deskjet 722C printer was compatible with the Windows XP OS on my laptop and I could therefore hope to share it . They did some digging in their technical files and came back with the answer, Sorry, they are not compatible; it can't work. I'm glad I tried it anyway..."

Harold -

I am too tangled up in all sorts of ways right now to unravel the mystery for you, but I am running a HP OfficeJet 710 on XP Home Edition SP2 - albeit I went through Hell turning up the software with Google searches to make it happen.

Vice-President John Nance 'Cactus Jack' Garner used to remark that his august office was "not worth a warm bucket of spit"; nowadays, I do not hold such technical advice doled out by the computer industry in much higher regard myself.  Maybe on down the road I will be able to turn something up for you.

[glb]El Pescador [/glb]

El Pescador,

Thanks for your response regarding my search for Network Neighborhood and alternative ways to network locally. I'm in good shape now thanks to NightOwl's help, able to network and share wirelessly between my Win 98 desktop and my XP laptop even without finding NN, but will continue to keep an eye out for NN and would appreciate any future suggestions.

Harold

NightOwl,

Now that network file sharing is working on my wireless network (wireless XP laptop and Win 98 desktop wired by Ethernet to a router/access point), I am getting back to my original purpose in trying to get network sharing to work, namely: to use Ghost 2003 to put a backup image of my desktop hard disk on the laptop hard disk, from which it could be burned to a set of DVD disks using the laptop DVD burner.

After scanning and defragmenting the desktop HD and logging on (I found that networking doesn't work from desktop-to-laptop without logging on to the desktop with a password), I started Ghost 2003 on the desktop and tried to set things up so the image would go directly to the DVD drive on the laptop. I soon got a message saying that the disk in the DVD drive on the laptop couldn't be accessed for direct image recording (it said there was no disk in the drive, although there was). This confirmed what everyone had been trying to tell me. So I restarted Ghost and this time browsed for a "Shared" folder I had put on a separate partition on the laptop hard disk. It was there and showed as: "\\LAPTOP\Shared", to which I added a file name: "Ghost 2003-6-05". I then proceeded to click the Next buttons until Ghost went into DOS and began the imaging. But the following message appeared:

"Ghost cannot continue because the Ghost image is on a network drive that maps a subdirectory of a network share rather than the share itself (the DOS client cannot map to a subdirectory). Please map a network drive to the network share and try again. \\LAPTOP\Shared\Ghost2003-6-05.gho"

I'm not sure I understand this message and wonder if you can enlighten me.

Harold

NightOwl said I should join in.

I found some old notes so see if this helps.


In Win98 open My Computer, click Tools, Map Network Drive, Choose any Drive letter but E is probably on top so E: it is.
In Path type \\LAPTOP\Shared
Tick Reconnect at logon.    OK.

Close and reopen My Computer. You will see your new E: drive. Use this mapped drive as your destination when you run Ghost 2003. That’s the limit of my knowledge here.


I’ve recalled a quick way (3 minutes) of networking a Win98 computer to a WinXP computer. Put your WinXP CD in the Win98 CD drive. When it auto-starts, click Perform Additional Tasks. Then click Set up a home or small office network. Windows copies some files, restarts, installs more files and then runs you through a network wizard where you choose the first dot for gateway, type your Workgroup name etc. It asks for the Win98 CD to copy some files and then you click Finish. It restarts, asks for your network Username and password (the WinXP ones). Now you can connect to the internet immediately if you have a router. File and printer sharing is enabled. Network Neighbourhood is present and shows all your networked computers. A Shared Documents folder is present in My Documents.

Brian,

In Win 98, the Map Network Drive designation was 'F' so I left it, entered the name of the shared file on laptop partition D (I changed it to 'DsktpImage') and checked 'Reconnect at logon'.

In Ghost 2003, I browsed for, found and saved to the above Mapped Drive, then continued with Ghost until it shut down Windows and rebooted to DOS. At that point the following message appeared (something brief preceeded it but scrolled by so quickly I couldn't read it and I couldn't get back to it):

"1. The system may not support the PCI bus.
2. The NIC may not be installed in a slot.
3. Some of the NIC resources in configuration space may be invalid.

Check for possible errors and run diagnostics.

Failure: Driver did not load. NDIS environment invalid."

It added:

"NET 5733: The protocol manager has reported an inadequate binding.   IBM NETBEUI 3.00    Error in loading.
Press F1 to continue."

When F1 is pressed, DOS shuts down and the computer reboots to Windows.

Harold

NightOwl. Help.

Harold

Because you are using Ghost 2003, which must drop to DOS to function when actually doing the Ghost operation, and you are trying to use Ghost over a peer-to-peer network, I think the problem now is you have to have DOS Ghost running on both machines.  See this outline:

How to clone or save an image file over a TCP/IP peer to peer connection

Take heed of their warning:


Quote:

WARNING: This relationship is very important; if the wrong computer is set as Master or Slave, it can cause data loss on the drive you intend to copy. Be certain which computer is the Master and which is the Slave. For further clarification, see the section "Assigning the Master and Slave computers."

Brian,

I am going to have to study this Master/Slave arrangement some. If it requires making a Ghost disk that will run on both computers, I can make and run a floppy on the desktop but can't do either on the laptop, and I can make a DVD on the laptop but not on the desktop. I can run a DVD on both and I can make and run a CD on both.

In the next two weeks I will be involved in travel and family reunioning that won't allow much time for this and I don't want to do the Master/Slave thing unless I can concentrate on it well enough so I don't make the kind of catastrophic error the instructions warn about. Thus I think it is better to postpone this process until I am back home after July 15th. I feel quite secure in the meantime with the desktop HD image made using BartPE and Drive Snapshot, which I now have on two DVD disks.

Harold

Harold

Just for the record--the Master/Slave warning is more important when doing a 'clone' or a 'restore', not when creating an image.

For the laptop, you will need to create a bootable floppy disk using the Ghost Boot Wizard on the desktop with the floppy drive--create the 'Peer-to-Peer Network Boot Disk' with the needed entries that apply to the laptop, if any, then use a CD/DVD burning program to make a bootable optical disc from that boot floppy.  You will use that bootable optical disk for the laptop.

You can just make a boot floppy for the desktop with Ghost Boot Wizard  to create its 'Peer-to-Peer Network Boot Disk' with any specific desktop entries.

See ya when you return--have a good time!

NightOwl, some recent posts raise questions. When Harold succeeds in creating a Ghost 2003 image of his desktop computer on his laptop  will he be able to burn that image to DVD and then use that DVD (DVD's) to restore his desktop in the event of a HD failure?

I'm referring to your posts about "Ghosting to a Remote Burner" and "Won't restore from Nero copy CD".

PS I'm starting to understand what you mean by the two floppy boot set.

Brian


Quote:

will he be able to burn that image to DVD

Should be able to with any burning program that is not the 'drag-n-drop' type like InCD or Roxio's 'Drag to Disc' type programs.


Quote:

and then use that DVD (DVD's) to restore his desktop in the event of a HD failure?

The 'Standard Ghost Boot Disk' that the Ghost Boot Disk Wizard creates for Ghost 2003 floppies will not work if the images were first created and save to the HHD, and then later burned to a CD or DVD.  Ghost must add some imbedded code to an image file that is burned directly by Ghost to optical media that allows Ghost to use the Standard Boot Disk.

If the image file was not burned directly by Ghost to the optical media, then you have to add a DOS driver to 'config.sys' that mounts your optical drive (ex.  'oakcdrom.sys'--there are many others)--and there has to be the DOS companion driver 'mscdex.exe' in 'autoexec.bat' that assigns a drive letter to the mounted optical drives.  Now Ghost will read those files just fine even if burned to the optical media by a third party burning program.