Hi all.....

I am new here and to newer versions of Ghost.  The last version that I used was back in the 1990,s and I don't remember what version.

I work at a school and I guess you could call me the resident tech ( I remember dos), at least for our building. We just received 25 pcs (Dell) loaded with various programs (each 5 has a different set).  I would like to ghost to image each different type of pc in case we have a crash (we are prone to that with all of the students) and am not sure what to do. I have ghost 2002 and can get version 9 (or 2003) if I need to.

?  I have done some research and see that version 9 has problems because of imaging while live ( makes sense to me) and that there is a reatogo build with a version 9 plugin.

My questions are

1. If I make the reatogo cd from a machine loaded with version 9 can I run it on another machine without version 9 on it?  I could go back and load later this would just help me get the labs going.

2. Will version 2002 make a image for backup across both the XP file system (NTFS) and fat32?  I found a post saying that it would after upgrade (no longer on web-site) and others where it would not.

3. Would I be better off with 2003 as it seems to be what most of you are using?

All backups would either be to a usb key, external HD, or a CD.

Thanks for the help and feel free to offer any other advice that you think might help. We will of course buy all license needed to do this.

James

Brian will be by to help you. He is the resident BartPE guru.

Ok...Thanks

br549,

I can only reply for Ghost 9 and the Reatogo CD. Ghost 9 can image partitions while Windows is running but can't do any imaging at all from the boot CD (Recovery Environment). I like this live imaging feature, others don't. Reatogo BartPE/Ghost 9 CD can do imaging from the Recovery Environment without needing to have Ghost 9 installed on your computer.

The license issue is for you to sort out but this is what I suggest.

Install Ghost 9 on one of your computers. It doesn't matter which one. Make the Reatogo CD. You can decide whether you need Ghost 9 installed on all computers for future imaging. This could be done now or later.

Use the Reatogo CD to image the C: drive of each of your five classes of computer. Don't bother imaging the other Dell partitions. I usually delete them as they aren't essential. So, a total of five images. I'd write the images direct to your external HD (don't forget to tick Verify) as that is the quickest way . You can burn to DVD later if you desire your images on two different backup media. Don't use CD's as restoring from multiple CD's would be torture.

I'd imagine your images will be less than 4 GB but if they are larger and you think they won't fit on a single DVD, then choose a split size of 4480 MB.

Should be straight forward. Good luck.

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1119240262


Any questions?

If you can create & restore images with Ghost 9 from the BartPE CD, that's worth noting in the guide.

Any nuances I should be aware of?

Other than the license issue?

All Ghost 9 functions can be done from the Reatogo BartPE/Ghost 9 CD. Create and Restore images, image to and restore from a network share, write an image to DVD but two optical drives are needed, browse images and restore individual files. It is more user friendly than the Ghost 9 Recovery Environment and has the same appearance as the Windows component of Ghost 9.

Multiple plugins can be run from the same CD, some relevant, others less so. You can even surf the net using Firefox from a computer without a hard drive. Deleting the "undeletable file" is very handy.

Brian

I do have a couple of questions.

1. If I make the cd with the Reatogo/Ghost 9 I am assuming it will see the usb ports?  I think all of these new machines will boot from a usb key.

2. Is there anything I need to do tho burn the images to a DVD from the external hard drive other than a normal copy?  I think (I have read so much my mind is in overload) someone said that there was a certain way to image the machines.

Thanks for the reply.  I am going to try a cd today so I am sure there will be more questions.

James

James, plug your USB external HD into the port before you boot to the Reatogo CD. The external HD will be seen from Reatogo. I have no experience booting from a USB key.

Nothing special about burning the images but if they are larger than 2 GB (probably will be) then choose UDF format, not UDF/ISO. I use Nero.

The images can be split into smaller chunks later if there is a problem. Ghost Backup Image Browser can do this.

James,

You needn't read this until you have to restore one of the 4 computers that wasn't imaged. If that ever needs to be done. So you should make a note of which computers were imaged.

http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/NewSid.html

I've never done it so I'm unlikely to be able to answer questions on computer SID's.

Updated the guide to note you can use a BartPE bootable CD/DVD to *create* (and restore) images, which would give you the same environment for both operations, which would make me more comfortable.

http://ghost.radified.com/norton_ghost_90.htm

Rad, I looked at your text describing Ghost 9.0 (http://ghost.radified.com/norton_ghost_90.htm) that was referenced in the prior thread, and in the spirit of accuracy, I recommend that you consider making the following corrections:

"Another concern is that Symantec is unable to update the version of Ghost contained on the Restore CD (the ghost.exe executable).":  
(A)  "Unable" isn't quite accurate.  I do not see any technical reason why Symantec could not disseminate a patch (or new version) of the Restore CD, in the event that a problem was discovered.  To-date, this has not proven to be necessary.
(B) In fairness, I recommend that you also make clear that Ghost 2003 hasn't had an update in several years, and is quite unlikely to be updated at any point in the future.  While in theory Ghost 2003 could be updated, in practice the likelihood is nil.  At minimum, the Restore CD for Ghost 9.0 is updated annually, whereas the same cannot be claimed for Ghost 2003.

"Symantec did not convert their Corporate version of Ghost to the Windows-based (Drive Image-based) application":  This is simply inaccurate.  The 'corporate' version of Ghost 9.0 is the Symantec LiveState Recovery suite of applications.  In fact, if you go to the Symantec website, you'll see that Symantec doesn't even list the corporate version of Ghost 2003 any longer as an option within its solution set for "Backup and Disaster Recovery" (http://enterprisesecurity.symantec.com/content/productlink.cfm).

Ghost 9.0 "requires you to install Microsoft's .Net bloatware":  True, but you should be aware that .NET is the underlying framework of Windows Vista which Microsoft is using to incorporate a Service Oriented Architecture (SOA) structure into the new operating system (called Indigo; see http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/support/lhdevfaq/indigo.aspx#a4e7myrr).  Thus, far from being a disadvantage, Ghost 9.0 is already a long way toward compatibility with Windows Vista.  As noted in another thread, it is quite unlikely that Ghost 2003 will work with Windows Vista if either Full Volume Encryption (http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/pcdesign/secure-start_tech.mspx) or WinFS (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwinfs/html/winfs03112004.asp) is utilized.

Kind regards,
Pleonasm

Ah, Pleo,

We all need someone to keep us honest. For that I thank you.

Give me a few days to examine your comments, and I will modify my text as appropriate.

Pleonasm  

Your defence of Ghost 9.x is admirable--but read this comment by *clevelandtxus* here:

Ghost 9 - BSOD!


Quote:

I do not see any technical reason why Symantec could not disseminate a patch (or new version) of the Restore CD, in the event that a problem was discovered.  To-date, this has not proven to be necessary.

Evidence exists that *there is/are (a) problem(s)*--but, Symantec is not addressing it (them)!

What good ia the *ability* to update a program, if they don't exercise it?

NightOwl, the BSOD problem reported by clevelandtxus is in reference to booting the PC after installing Ghost 9.0 - it is not in reference to using the Recovery Environment CD disc.  Therefore, the issue of Symantec's ability (or willingness) to distribute a patch for the Recovery Environment CD is not applicable in this case.

Nonetheless, your general point is well taken.  I do not claim that either Symantec or any of their products are without defects.  In fact, I would go so far as to say that I am not personally aware of any major application by any software manufacturer that is completely fault free.  I trust you will agree that Ghost 2003 has its own collection of known defects - as documented in the postings in this forum - which Symantec has ignored by failing to disseminate any updates whatsoever for Ghost 2003 for several years.

As frustrating as the BSOD issue is for those who experience it, I think it is worthwhile to put this in perspective.  Since Drive Image 7 reported that over 1 million copies were in use, let's conservatively assume that there are 1 million copies of Ghost 9.0 in use.  In looking at the BSOD thread, there are - let's say - 10 individuals who have reported that problem.  If only 1 in 100 actually takes the time to report the issue, then there are approximately 10,000 individuals experiencing this difficulty.  That is 1% of the total user base for Ghost 9.0 - and that estimate is probably quite high, given my lax assumptions.

I am not trying to justify a programming defect, only trying to note that the BSOD problem is not commonplace.  If it were, then forum boards like this one would be inundated with postings on the subject.

Why hasn't Symantec fixed this problem?  Probably for the same reason that Symantec hasn't fixed various problems with Ghost 2003:  namely, with limited resources, they are focusing on delivering the greatest good for the greatest number of users rather than repairing niche issues.

I sincerely hope that Symantec does address the BSOD issue in Ghost 10.0, together with all other known issues.

NightOwl, a description of a sample of known defects in Ghost 2003 will be found in the following Symantec Knowledge Base articles:

• Ghost compatibility with USB cables
  

• Error: "19205 Compression error -4" while creating a spanned or split image
  

• How to troubleshoot problems when writing to CD-R and CD-RW drives
  

• Ghost cannot see a drive or partition in the drive selection window
  

Symantec hasn't fixed these (plus other) problems with Ghost 2003 – and probably never will.  I offered my viewpoint on why such is the case, but I would appreciate hearing your perspective on why Symantec has the ability to issue an update for Ghost 2003 but has not done so.

Additionally, allow me to suggest that the BSOD difficulty reported in conjunction with Ghost 9.0 may not necessarily be a problem with Ghost 9.0 per se.  To illustrate, consider that Chris Skory reported the "PQI file problem" (see thread "Ghost 9.0 gives an error for undocumented PQI file"), but as a consequence of my post, he determined that the difficulty really was due to an improper BIOS setting – and changing that setting made the "Ghost 9.0 problem" disappear.  Some (certainly not all) problems that appear to be defects with Ghost 9.0 may in fact be occurring as a result of interactions with other installed software and/or hardware configurations.  Troubleshooting requires an open mind, and to entertain the possibility that the source of the problem is not where you think.  The lesson:  it is probably wise to initially avoid assuming that a problem in using Ghost 9.0 is in fact due to a defect in Ghost 9.0.  (In contrast to Ghost 2003, the Symantec Knowledge Base contains no articles describing "known problems" with Ghost 9.0.)

Pleonasm


Quote:

but I would appreciate hearing your perspective on why Symantec has the ability to issue an update for Ghost 2003 but has not done so.

There is no doubt that Ghost 2003 is *dead* as far as development and keeping up with new hardware and new software standards for that hardware.

As I said in another thread, I have *old* hardware--I built the system in 2001--so Ghost 2003 is working just fine for me, for now.  It's going to take some dramatic new feature that I just *gota have--and can't live without* at this point to make me invest in newer hardware any time soon.


Quote:

The lesson:  it is probably wise to initially avoid assuming that a problem in using Ghost 9.0 is in fact due to a defect in Ghost 9.0.

Actually--most Ghost 2003 problems usually turn out to be *user defects* (wet-ware), and not *software defects*  ;) !


Quote:

(In contrast to Ghost 2003, the Symantec Knowledge Base contains no articles describing "known problems" with Ghost 9.0.)

Now, that would not be the best marketing ploy for the product you are trying to sell to the masses, would it?  I'm sure Symantec did away with their customer support forum because it *advertised* for all to see--the problems people were having with their software--even if the real percentage is small--it looks really bad if all the post are about problems folks are having--better to keep that from the public's *eye*!

NightOwl, with respect to the Symantec customer support forum, isn't it the case that Symantec discontinued this support mechanism for all of its retail products and not simply for Ghost 9.0?  If my memory is correct, then Symantec can be criticized for failing to provide such a user-to-user support option in general, but not for attempting to 'hide' problems with Ghost 9.0 in particular, as you suggest.

In addition to this forum, others that are available for individuals to discuss issues with Ghost 9.0 include:
  http://groups.google.com/group/symantec.customerservice.general
  http://castlecops.com/f82-General_Symantec.html

Please add any others that you know about, so that the interested reader of this post has full and complete access to all discussions about Ghost 9.0, with nothing hidden.

Pleonasm


Quote:

for attempting to 'hide' problems with Ghost 9.0 in particular, as you suggest.

You have read your bias into my statement!--I did not directly target Ghost 9.x--I was in fact making a *general* statement about marketing all their products--not just Ghost 9.x  ;) !


Quote:

I'm sure Symantec did away with their customer support forum because it *advertised* for all to see--the problems people were having with their software

Where did I say *Ghost 9.x*?  But, I suppose--it's a thread about Ghost 9.x--so I guess it could be *implied*  ;) !

Quote:

Actually--most Ghost 2003 problems usually turn out to be *user defects* (wet-ware), and not *software defects*

What a fascinating term.. wet-ware. NightOwl, what is the derivation of this term? Wet behind the ears?

Brian

Wetware

A 30 year old term that has never entered my wetware.

NightOwl, you are correct - I 'read-between-the-lines' and (incorrectly) assumed that your comment was in reference to Ghost 9.0.  My bad.

Although my reading of your post was incorrect, I think that we can agree on the conclusion:  the termination of Symantec's user forums was not an attempt to 'hide' anything about Ghost 9.0 (or other Symantec products), but may have been simply a marketing action designed to minimize the visibility of dissatisfied users of all Symantec products in general.

Brian, you may enjoy this piece of trivia.  Years ago, there was a software development company called "Underwear, Inc." (software, hardware, wetware, and then underwear?).  No joke:  their major product was called BRIEF (i.e., Basic Reconfigurable Interactive Editing Facility - an outstanding character-based editor, by the way).

NightOwl was being nice. He could have used the more derogatory term "meatware". =)

Pleo, why don't you copy-n-paste your comments into another separate new thread, and I'll drop a link to it in the guide. I would incorporate you comments into the page itself, except the dang page is too long already.

I try to encourage dissent & debate, cuz that's how we learn things we didn't know before.

Note that I have linked *twice* to our long-@ss thread where we debated the relative merits of DOS-based imaging vs Windows-based imaging. Remember?:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1112928340

.. which currently has more than 5,000 page views. So I am not trying to exclude anyone's opinion (no matter how misguided it might be ... just kidding).

Since you are a Pro-Ghost9 user, I encourage you (and any other Ghost9 users for that matter) to post a thread on 'Why Windows-based imaging with Ghost9 is better than DOS-based imaging with Ghost 2003, and I will code in a prominent link to it in the guide.

Fair?

R.

Pleonasm wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2005 at 6:43pm:

a software development company called "Underwear, Inc." (software, hardware, wetware, and then underwear?).  No joke:  their major product was called BRIEF (i.e., Basic Reconfigurable Interactive Editing Facility

We'd call it Y-Front Applications.

Rad, I will create a new thread on the theme of Ghost 2003/Ghost 9.0 reliability in a few days, as you recommended.  I am pleased that you seek a "fair & balanced" perspective on this forum, and hope that I contribute to that objective in some small way.

Do you also intend to edit the http://ghost.radified.com/norton_ghost_90.htm page to incorporate the 'corrections' that I noted in "Reply #10 on: 29. Aug 2005" within this thread?

Best wishes,
Pleonasm

Hi.
I have with great interest read this Ghost-BartPe discussion.I prefer NortonGhost 2300 because it is simple.dependable and it works very well in spite of being a Symantec product..Symantec bought Ghost a few years ago and has done important improvement in its practical use..I have been using Ghost (since 1998)and cant imagine feeling secure on a PC without this recovery program.

BartPe,Reatogo,Ghost 9 ?

BartPe is a magnificent free recovery program too but after having built one BArtPe CD and booting into a PC that oterwise couldnt be entered I ask myself WHAT NEXT?Once u boot with BartPe?What next?
Id love to see,read,learn a way that explains HOW to repair,test,use and import because so far I did not see any guide telling me WHAT TO DO step by step once u open and boot.
It is said one can do marvels by network support,but HOW I have not yet seen..Anybody can help?
Ghost is simple..Once u boot it in dos via its bootable flopy u go to PREVIOUSLY done image of your cdrive u may revive all u have saved on ghost image..In 5-25 minutes u got a perfect instant recovery..I dont recommend any other Ghost but NG2003..Why?The new ghost 9 works only in Windows I been told./.It is very nice that it may work w Vista but I need a instant recovery NOW and in case if my Windows XP PRO fails to boot.I think that is a better reason than using a new ghost for an OS that is for time beingnon-existent..Right now if Im in trouble I DONT CARE ABOUT FAR FUTURE and Vista..
BartPe may be wonderful but unfortunately I dont know what to do with this and how to test,repair,import useful tools as there is no practical guide for that purpose..Or I did not find it.I dream about a BartPe with programs that are explained and easy to use.Reatogo?No way..I did not suceed to import programs into that AT ALL ..Sorry but so far NG2003 has saved my surfing a dozens of times..No program can be as useful as this dos-ghost has been for me so far..My first Ghost cost me 100 $..Much?No way..U know how much those arrogant stockholm IT repair experts charge?Well minimum 70$ per hour and one has to wait 7 days for a PC to be repaired.I revive my ghost in 30 minutes at most..So that is a good reason to love that program,isnt it?
Id love to learn how to use BartPe,Reatogo etc and that is the purpose of reading all forums where I can meet knowlegable troubleshooters who may help,like Brian or others..
Thanks in advance..
Zdenko

 
I am new here and to newer versions of Ghost.  The last version that I used was back in the 1990,s and I don't remember what version.

I work at a school and I guess you could call me the resident tech ( I remember dos), at least for our building. We just received 25 pcs (Dell) loaded with various programs (each 5 has a different set).  I would like to ghost to image each different type of pc in case we have a crash (we are prone to that with all of the students) and am not sure what to do. I have ghost 2002 and can get version 9 (or 2003) if I need to.


Please allow me to post a few practical words for the school teacher and others..

1/Try to make your cdrive as lean as only possible'..Clean all that is not apsolutely necessary for your Windows OS.Some guys even run programs from D drive (or other partitions..)

2/Make a NortonGhost2003 image of your C drive.U can do that while on Winsdows..Dos too.Ghost has excellent help for that..

3/Store the Ghost image on another partition,drive or even DVD
CD.
4/Make a new image at least every 3 months.Be sure to make an image only if your OS works perfectly well.if it is cleaned,no bugs,tested and defragmented..

5/Delete previous ghost if u want ..

6/Once u need a perfectly running OS ,if any troble with the one u got,take the DVD bootable ghost CD or Ghost floppy disk and
start your Windows in dos go to image and restore what u saved..
Be sure u went to bios and got your booting sequence to CD or Floppy first..

7/If you want to have your OS revived and running how it once was,then FORGET about BartPe,Reatogo or Ghost theory and future..If u got a problem then u dont care about Ghost 9 being better in Vista or BartPe opening every PC,you maybe in need for help and PC right now..I love to research and learn about new ways but when in trouble I love my OS running and if u are like me USE NG2003..

I felt I got to add this few words to my previous text

regards zdenko

Yes, Ghost 2003 is a good application. No-one would argue otherwise. What we use depends on personal preference and prejudice as Ghost 2003 and Ghost 9 are both reliable.

I gather you would like some help with Reatogo BartPE. What problems have you had making the CD? Some people just can't do it on their computer through no fault of their own.

Reatogo is the easier version of BartPE to use. It has almost the same appearance as WinXP and is very intuitive. Recovering data, fixing data corruption, removing viruses, all from computers that won't boot. Networking computers that can't easily be networked in Windows, for data transfer. Several imaging programs (but not Ghost 2003) can be run from BartPE, which is handy when these apps are not running appropriately in Windows. Editing the boot.ini has been useful for me in the past.

Reatogo lets you have access to most of the WinXP registry and many of the Administrative Tools for troubleshooting purposes. Many apps can be run as plugins but often these are curiosities. The more you use it the more potential you see for recovery purposes.

Bart sees it "as the next generation rescue platform". He stopped creating DOS boot disks in 2002 when he first saw a WinPE CD and realized what could be done.

Of course if you have an image then you can do a restore. But my friends don't tend to have images. BartPE has been helpful in resolving some of their problems.

Hi Brian,
U are apsolutely right that Reatogo IS SUPPOSED to be easier in use than BartPe..
Not for me.
.unfortunately..My problem are plugins import..reatogo autoHelp plugins have been explained even in a private letter by Siegfried Bethine (reatogo creator)but I could not import one single plugin..He sent me a letter,very nice letter,but  still it is a mistery how to do that plugin install???
BartPe I created and my CD is running perfect.A few days ago I found in our cellar an abandoned PC..Ok I used my BartPe and it s windowsopened without any problem..I saw it had a WinXP Home that asked me for right code.I did not have any code so I formated its C drive and used a set of web found 6 floppy sert ups that could start a new install.
Install started well but broke down soon with an error message..No way to boot this..no way to repair..
Ok if I had my Windows Commander,NSW WIN DOC,CRU checker,or if I could do a SFC..etc I might    perhaps  repair .U mention doctoring boot ini,sure but HOW?Im very much interested in this ..Could u temm  me more or point to a practical guide..Yes I had full access to registry but it did not do much for repair.I run checkdrive although and found out that the small 3 g  drive was OK..

My BartPe Cd is working FINE but I dont know what to do w it..I cannot install pluing either in BP nor Reatoge..Sorry..There is no practical explanation what it means the NETWORK SUPPORT..If I had any access to Hardware Device Manager I could have a look at this PCs  problems..but NO WAY..U say boot Ini..Ok but what to edit?Which useful text u may point out for me in this direction?Thanks..

Why I want to be able to use this wonderful Cd tools?To help myself?No way..

t is my hobby to help old people with PC problems (free of charge).It is very interesting to repair abandoned PCs..And help people have a modest PC..

Regarding my own problems I know how to troubleshoot my PCs and ceertainly I got an image and with  NG2003 no problem to restore and enjoy..If not I takes me several hours to reinstall my OS and it is fun too.

But my handicaps with BartPe and Reatogo frustrate me..I have a bootable BartPe,I open that damned unbootable PC,I check its registry with checkdrive,but what NEXT?

This problem might interest certainly a lot of potential troubleshooters..Therefore Id love to have more knowledge about HOW TO import those (very easy..??) plugins and start using them..Until then my BartPe is just good for almost NOTHING..Practically it is ZERO for me..Same with Reatogo..
Too bad..

Regards Zdenko

Zdenko,

Sorry to hear Reatogo couldn't fix your problem. If the autoHelp plugins don't work for you then plugins can be added in the same way as BartPE adds them. Directly to the Plugin folder. They work just as well as autoHelp plugins.

Have a look at this thread. There are instructions on using the A43 program (like Windows Explorer) and Networking. Boot.ini can be edited in A43.

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1117736753;start=0#0

@Brian, @Zdenko and @All

Just happened to jump over to the Radified Ghost site to see what had been updated for version 10.

Came across this thread linked from the home page.

Thought id post a message saying a Ghost v10 for Bart PEBuilder should not be too long off, ive been working on it for the past few days and it doenst look too different (as you would expect) from v9 in a Bart PE plugin kinda way.

Incidentally, i notice that Reatogo (Seigfried) gets all the credit for Ghost v9 under Bart PE. I was actually the original creator, Siegfried cleverly repackaged it for his Reatogo version of Bart PE.

I mention this for two reasons:

1) Everyone likes a bit of credit

and mainly...

2) I want to see if Siegfried reads this, he seems to be everywhere :P :P

Ill post again when Ghost v10 is done.

Oops, almost forgot, a bit of self promotion.

Ghost v9 for BartPE and my other plugins for Bart PE can be accessed

over at http://sourceforge.net/projects/frodope

Frodo, my apologies cobber. I only realized in the last few days that you were the author of the Ghost 9 plugin used in the Reatogo CD. Your web site or at least my interpretation of the site led me to believe that you put development on hold in June. The plugin version has been “Semi-Final 2” since June. Reatogo has an April date on the Ghost 9 plugin so it now makes sense. Does your plugin work in the standard BartPE as well as the Reatogo version?

You are to be congratulated for developing this plugin which has certainly helped Ghost 9 users in this forum who were experiencing difficulties with the Symantec Recovery CD. I think we already have a few members ready to test the next plugin.

Thanks for providing this information.