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Message started by Ivanov on Dec 15th, 2005 at 11:17am

Title: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP installatio
Post by Ivanov on Dec 15th, 2005 at 11:17am
Hello Mr. Christer,

Read your responses to XP installation thread & found them to be very informative & helpful.
Before reading my questions do keep in mind that am a med doc, new to computers related stuff & English isn’t my first language.

The following is the method, I use to install XP Pro slipstreamed with SP2 on my machine.
1. Fresh install XP with SP2 using a bootable CD.
2. Than chipset /modem drivers etc.
3. Next tweak the services as required, keeping in view Vipers recommendations.
4. Change desk top settings to classic view etc.
5. Get connected to the net for automatic updates to be downloaded & installed. Takes around 2 hrs.
6. Install AVG, Spy bot after updating run a system scan.
7.  Install Office XP with its SP3.
8. Get online; go to MS Office updates site. It performs a scan after downloading an active X control & than installs approx 7/8 security updates of around 14 MB in size.
9. After all this install Ghost 2003, & other utilities.
10. Take an image of my OS & save it.

I would like you to give your comments about the above.

Now after reading your replies it really is interesting if one can download all the security updates, save them/ burn them on to a media for the future. It can save a lot of hassle if the OS gets corrupted or those updates can be used on other machines running XP Pro & Office.
The following is now what I have gathered from the replies.
1. Firstly download all the updates & save them.
2. Make a fresh install of XP with SP2.
3. Than install drivers.
4. Install office with SP3.

5. Now the real issue. In which orders should the updates be installed?
a.Windows & Package installer first & than reboot.
b.Than all updates & reboot.
     The list for Windows XP:

040924-885884 (only if Office XP will be installed)
041015-887472
041021-886185
041028-885835
041029-885836
041103-887742
041116-888113
041117-873339
041207-888302
050111-891781
050119-885250
050321-890859
050503-893803 (#1)
050507-894391
050510-896422
050511-896428
050517-890046
050517-898461 (#2)
050525-893066
050527-896358
050629-901214
050630-896423
050630-899587
050630-899591
050709-893756
050726-902400
050818-899589
050822-905414
050823-905749
050830-904706
050910-901017
050928-900725
051005-896688
051006-896424

c. After a reboot since Office XP with SP3 shall already have been installed, than install the following:
The list for Office XP:

040312-833858
040828-873379
040914-837253
050129-873352
050202-890829
050618-895589
050925-904018

d. Finally, the latest Malicious Software Removal Tool:

051102-890830.

Is this CORRECT??

1. When going online the windows update service should be running on startup?
2. I use Spy bot Tea Timer settings on my OS, while installing various utilities, messengers etc it gives various pop messages, such as Global entry value added, Active X allow, Value Added to System Registry & for each asks whether Allow or Deny...your views?
3. How do you rate Disk keeper as OS defragmenter?
4. I use a combo of AVG, Ad aware SE Pro & Spy bot with Tea timer protection for system protection……..your views?

Sorry to have bothered you which I can well imagine, as being a doc I rarely get time for myself before I get paged or my cell rings.

Like in med, what I learnt in med school books at times is far different from on ground situation. One has to be flexible & adjust according to the patients’ situation. I feel the same rule at times, apply to computers too……..

Waiting to hear from you.
Take care.
Regards!

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Pleonasm on Dec 15th, 2005 at 2:22pm
Ivanov, concerning question #3 about Diskeeper, see the thread “Diskeeper 10” on this forum at http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1133810219

A review of disk defragmentation tools by PC Magazine may be found at http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1811993,00.asp

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 15th, 2005 at 6:49pm
Hello Ivanov!

Downloading as much as possible prior to installing an OS from "square one" is something I always do. For me, it's easy since I have downloaded all updates to Windows XP SP2 (SP2 set the counter back to zero updates) as and when they have been released. Downloading all of them at once may be a bigger task but in my opinion, it's worth the trouble. I also download all (or as many as possible) of other updates to drivers and software I plan on installing.

All the above is to delay connection to the internet as long as possible and the reason for that is to install the AntiVirus and FireWall last. Why, you may ask?

Like most (?) people on this forum, I have partitioned my hard disk in two partitions, C: for the operating system and D: for data. A second hard disk is partitioned E: for backups of the data and F: for Images of the system. This makes "disaster recovery" so much simpler and quicker.

There is a partitioning guide around here somewhere. Some people create several partitions for different use but my basic strategy is to separate the operating system from the data. To get "some degree of order" among the drive letters, some of them have to be changed. If you create C: during setup but no other partitions, the opticals will become D: and E: (if you have two of them). In Disk Manager, these drive letters can be changed to X: and Y: to get them out of the way. When you create further partitions in Disk Manager, they will become D:, E: and F: and so on. Only make the system partition C: a Primary. Make all other partitions Extended with Logical Volumes. (some people will disagree but with no intention to multiboot several operating systems, I think that's the best choice).

This means that after partitioning, formating and installing Windows XP, certain folders have to be moved from C: to D:. I have compiled a guide on how to do this in Moving Windows XP default folders Rev1.

When all partitions have been created, all folders moved, all drivers installed and XP SP2 fully updated and tweaked, I create an Image (#1) of the system partition (using Ghost 2003, Partition-to-Image).

Next, I install all hardware, like keyboard, mouse, scanner and printer. I create Image #2.

Next, I install and fully update all software that I know I will keep for a consideable length of time. Examples are Office XP, Adobe Acrobat (full, not Reader), Adobe Photoshop and other "high priced" programs. I create Image #3.

Only now do I install AntiVirus and FireWall. After connecting to the internet, I immediately do an update of the AV and FW. I also visit Windows Update and Office Update to verify that I have not missed anything. I create Image #4.

Finally, I install other software that either come in new versions quite often or applications that I know is not "for keeps". I also do the Services Tweaks at this point. I create Image #5.

All these Images is a safety net during the installation procedure. If anything goes wrong, I don't have to start over from square one but can restore the appropriate Image.

When the subscriptions for AV and FW run out, uninstalling is easy. Restore Image #4 install the new AV/FW and the small applications that were lost in the roll back. That is much quicker than uninstalling AV/FW and doing a manual cleanup. Reinstalling updates to Windows and Office will be a quick task since you will have them on your hard disk.

I have disabled System Destroy ...... :-X ...... sorry, I meant System Restore since my strategy is much more reliable. It has never let me down whereas SR has never done its work properly (when I was using it on WinME). In my opinion, SR is a waste of space for a Gost user but better than nothing for everyone else.

A few comments:


Quote:
1. Fresh install XP with SP2 using a bootable CD.

Since you have managed to slipstream SP2 ...... ;) ...... you're not totally new to computers!


Quote:
2. Than chipset /modem drivers etc.

I would install all updates to Windows first.


Quote:
3. Next tweak the services as required, keeping in view Vipers recommendations.

I would hold that until after installing updates. Some of them may depend on Services that you disable.


Quote:
4. Change desk top settings to classic view etc.

Anytime you like.


Quote:
5. Get connected to the net for automatic updates to be downloaded & installed. Takes around 2 hrs.

Hmm ...... :o ...... still connected via modem ...... 8) ...... makes it even more sensible to download to the hard disk since you will only have to do it once!


Quote:
6. Install AVG, Spy bot after updating run a system scan.
7.  Install Office XP with its SP3.

See my prefences as described above regarding the order of installation.


Quote:
8. Get online; go to MS Office updates site. It performs a scan after downloading an active X control & than installs approx 7/8 security updates of around 14 MB in size.

If you do it "my way" this will only be a check point but it should be done.


Quote:
9. After all this install Ghost 2003, & other utilities.


Create the Ghost Boot Disks (only one floppy if no CD/DVD support) on the current system. Use it to create the sequential Images during the installation procedure. It's my advice to do it booted into DOS because that's what you need to do when disaster strikes (note that I said when ...... :-/ ...... not if).


Quote:
10. Take an image of my OS & save it.

You say nothing about to what media (CD, DVD or to a different partition/hard disk but you know my drill. A second hard disk is not a big investment and sooo much faster than a CD/DVD.


Quote:
The following is now what I have gathered from the replies.

1. Firstly download all the updates & save them.
2. Make a fresh install of XP with SP2.
3. Than install drivers.
4. Install office with SP3.

I believe we have covered my preferences regarding the order of battle.


Quote:
5. Now the real issue. In which orders should the updates be installed?
a.Windows & Package installer first & than reboot.
b.Than all updates & reboot.

The update marked #1 (MS Installer) and #2 (Package Installer) should be installed first with a reboot (after both). #1 is most important but #2 less so because it will only come in play when using web updates.

All others are installed in order of date (first six digits YYMMDD). Do them all at once with a single reboot when done (otherwise it will take "for ever").

The list is outdated by the december batch of updates:

For Windows XP, 051201-905915 has substituted 051005-896688 and 051202-910437 is new.

No changes for Office XP.

A new Malicious Software Removal Tool, 051209-890830 has substituted 051102-890830.

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 15th, 2005 at 7:14pm
...... and you thought that I had finished ...... ;D ...... well, me too but then I scrolled further down:


Quote:
1. When going online the windows update service should be running on startup?

I use the setting to "notify but neither download nor install until I say so". I never "say so" but take notes on the new updates and download them to my archive and install from there.

(There is one "update" that can not (to my knowledge) be downloaded: "Microsoft Genuine Advantage Tool" which will be offered the first time you visit Windows Update or through Windows Automatic Update.)


Quote:
2. I use Spy bot Tea Timer settings on my OS, while installing various utilities, messengers etc it gives various pop messages, such as Global entry value added, Active X allow, Value Added to System Registry & for each asks whether Allow or Deny...your views?

I use Spybot S&D, Ad-Aware and other similar applications as scanners only. I don't like having unnecessary stuff running in the background. (My tweaked, 4½ years old BOAC [Box Of Assembled Components] with a 1 GHz Athlon and 512 MB RAM runs like a 2.5 GHz P4 with all the crap loaded ...... 8) ......)


Quote:
3. How do you rate Disk keeper as OS defragmenter?

I only use the free version Diskeeper Lite and have no opinion on the other versions.


Quote:
4. I use a combo of AVG, Ad aware SE Pro & Spy bot with Tea timer protection for system protection……..your views?

I have used Norton System Works 2003 and Norton Internet Security 2003 for the last couple of years. (Norton stuff is difficult to uninstall, that's why I install them late in my sequence, to be easy to get rid of by rolling back.)

I have only heard "good reviews" of AVG free but it does not have all the bells and whistles. Does it include a FireWall? If not, you should get one! The Windows Firewall only monitors incoming but any bad stuff that has sneaked in can do anything outgoing unmonitored. Kerio Personal Firewall is one that goes well with AVG free (that's what I've heard). Kerio has sold it to another company, I don't have all the details but it should still be free.

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by huntnyc on Dec 15th, 2005 at 8:37pm
Very informative and thank you for your explanation of arranging a system in this way.

I am wondering since I already have my documents on my E partition and photos on F with CD on D, would there be any big advantage after a system is already set up of rearranging drive letters so the OS and data are labeled concsecutively and the optical drive letter is changed?  I am sure if I tried to do this I would have to tweak many registry and prgram entries to reflect the changes.  But, from a logical point of view, I do like the idea you presented on bringing order to drive letters.

Thanks.

Gary

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Rad on Dec 15th, 2005 at 9:53pm
Re: the excellent Christer guide:

http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=49222

I would be more than happy to give you your own web space, with your own subdomain even, if you like, similar to what I did for NightOwl:

http://nightowl.radified.com/bootcd/bootcdintro.html

.. for a place where you can have more control over the formatting and style of content than is offered by forum software.

We can even code in some Google ads and make you some money .. if you like. No pressure.

Lemme know.

Seems to me, it's this very specific type of guide that seems to do so well on the web.

You could have your own FTP log-in, and access your guide(s) whenever you like (24x7x365). You could even include some gfx, etc. It's really a very good and useful guide.

Rad

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 15th, 2005 at 10:45pm
Hello Mr. Christer,

Thanks for the very prompt & elaborate response.  Its simply superb, splendid & a pleasure to read.

One question on which site & how do I find the various updates.

Like went to MS download center, in search when typed e.g. this update 041015-887472, the search result gave the same KB# BUT did different date of release. Windows Messenger Update, but the release date was not in 2004 but 2005.

Could you please bother to clarify this in detail?

Thanks for pointing to tweak the services after updating. System Restore like some others are just a waste of system resources in my view, far better to image an OS.

I create images on another drive.

Regarding having a slipstreamed bootable XP CD, it was done for me by a friend working for some IT company. I want to learn to do computer related things myself than relying on others.

I get connected using a broad band modem.

Personally I prefer a combo of AVG & Kerio, Norton, MacAfee aren’t my preferences. They have poor uninstallers; even after removing them, leave behind many files folders & invalid registry entries. In my opinion the best product is by Symantec is Ghost, only.

Would just type what I have gathered.

1. Install XP with SP2 first.
2.  Later Office & its SP3.
3. All updates for XP & Office.
4. Than tweak services.
5. Image OS.
6. Install AV & FW & update them.
7. Than Utilities etc.
8. Finally image OS again.

Waiting to hear your comments,
Have a great evening,
Regards.


PS: Mr Christer, this reply is by me Ivanov Yezinki. Had to become a guest as I get logged out, after trying to post a reply? I had earlier emailed about this issue to the forum moderators.....

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 16th, 2005 at 5:02am
Gary,


Quote:
I am wondering since I already have my documents on my E partition and photos on F with CD on D, would there be any big advantage after a system is already set up of rearranging drive letters so the OS and data are labeled concsecutively and the optical drive letter is changed?

No advantage at all, it's just my sense of "law and order". Windows assigns drive letters according to certain rules and the drive letters should be the same each time you reconnect a device.

If you have one internal HDD, another in a mobile rack and the third is in a USB enclosure, they might be C:, D: and E:. If you power off the mobile rack and connect the USB drive, it will still be E:. Windows remembers. Now, if you buy a card reader or even a printer with an integrated card reader, you must have all drives connected when connecting the card reader the first time for it to receive "unused drive letters". A friend forgot that and it became a mess (he told me but I've never seen it).

Rad,

that guide has its origine here. I wrote a very short one which you included in the Guide to Ghost. I referred a few people to that section and some of them messed up their computer because they didn't know enough "computer geek" to follow the instructions. A member over at Windows BBS asked so many questions that I decided to create a more "easy to follow" guide that can be used by people knowing next to nothing. Rev0 had a few thousand hits and a few hundred downloads the first month. Then the current Rev1 was posted. I give credit to two members of the Windows BBS staff who assisted with feedback during writing and correcting my most flagrant mistakes in translating what my swedish speaking computer says to proper english. This means that it wouldn't feel right to move it to RADIFIED.

I'm flattered by your offer of "my own little corner" but as you yourself has said, "it takes time to maintain at a decent level" and I don't feel that I have that time right now. The Swedish Soaring Federation is planning and preparing the World Gliding Championships which will be held in Eskilstuna next year and being responsible for flight safety, I will have to devote my time to that but ...... :-X ...... maybe later.

Ivanov,

I will get back to you later ...... ;) ...... must do some proper (paying) work now.

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 16th, 2005 at 8:15am
Ivanov,


Quote:
One question on which site & how do I find the various updates.

Like went to MS download center, in search when typed e.g. this update 041015-887472, the search result gave the same KB# BUT did different date of release. Windows Messenger Update, but the release date was not in 2004 but 2005.

As I mentioned in the previous thread (from which you quote the list) the date I use is not the release date but "the date (YYMMDD) according to the digital signature". The digital signature can be found by right-clicking the file > Properties > Digital signatures. The date of the signatures do not change but I have noticed that the file creation date when downloading to the local hard disk will be the current date and not the "actual date of creation". When looking at the file itself, it is impossible to use the release date since it is not there but only in the documentation (KB-article or Security Bulletin). My date is only there to sort the updates in a chronological order but I am not sure it is necessary to install in that order but I do that since "better safe than sorry". Focus on the KB-number, get them downloaded and install, preferrably in chronological order.


Quote:
They have poor uninstallers; even after removing them, leave behind many files folders & invalid registry entries.

I agree and that's why I use my "modus operandi" to make it easy to uninstall by rolling back an Image.


Quote:
In my opinion the best product is by Symantec is Ghost, only.

I have used Norton SystemWorks 2003 but only for the convenient utilities "One Button Checkup", "Norton WinDoctor and "Norton System Doctor". I have nothing running in the background but use them only at my discretion.

Norton Internet Security 2003 has everything running and it has worked well. Some people accuse it for being a resource hog but in my opinion, not worse than other AV/FW software.

There is a limp to that statement since I have not compared different AV/FW software on my computer, only my computer with NIS and other computers with other AV/FW software. I do notice a difference when running my computer with NIS disabled from startup (disconnected from the web) but not to the magnitude indicated by a number of "loud voices" on some forums.

If you install "late iterations of software" on "earlier iterations of computers", then there is a mismatch between the hardware and the software which may be regarded as "resource hogs". On computers with the GHz and MB to handle them > no problem. I will soon transfer to NIS 2005 or 2006. I wonder if my single GHz and 512 MB will be able to handle it or if it will become a "resource hog" on my system?

Norton Ghost 2003 has been of good service to me since I migrated to WinXP. While on WinME, I was using Ghost 2001. I will stick with Ghost 2003 and DOS until a new file system which Ghost 2003 can not read is introduced. I hope that the, at that time, current iteration of Ghost will have matured (and gotten a DOS inteface ...... ;D ......) !


Quote:
Would just type what I have gathered.

1. Install XP with SP2 first.
2.  Later Office & its SP3.
3. All updates for XP & Office.
4. Than tweak services.
5. Image OS.
6. Install AV & FW & update them.
7. Than Utilities etc.
8. Finally image OS again.

Sounds good to me but it is with Images as it is with partitioning. Everyone will come to his or her own conclusions. I don't bother with separate partitions for the pagefile and temp files. Neither do I have a leading FAT32 partition to be able to acces the whole drive from DOS and to trick malware and hackers by not installing the OS on C:. The discussions have prompted me to think about what I need and to what extent I want to complicate things and the result is my simple basic partitioning strategy. I hope that I have triggered some thinking on your part to make a decision on what you think is right for you and your needs.

Two weeks ago, I reinstalled a system for a friend according to my preferences. When I moved the "My Documents" folder from C: to D:, I took it one step further. I also moved the "My Pictures" folder and the "My Music" folder out from "My Documents" onto the root of D:. The reason was backup considerations. He will be able to backup his pictures or music without backing up everything else. Replicator is a good backup utility which is free. You can create different jobs and either schedule or run manually. I run them manually since my backup drive sits powered off in the mobile rack during normal usage.

Replicator can backup a folder like "My Documents" and include all subfolders but not exclude certain subfolders. That's why it makes sense to get some folders out from "My Documents".

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 16th, 2005 at 8:47am
Hello Mr. Christer,

Following is the list of windows updates that  have been downloaded,present in the windows folder, size 101 MB, till today!

1. KB873339
2. KB885250
3. KB885835
4. KB885836
5. KB886185
6. KB887472
7. KB887742
8.KB888113
9.KB888302
10.KB890046
11.KB890859
12. KB891781
13. KB893066
14.KB893756
15.KB894391
16.KB896358
17.KB896422
18.KB896423
19.KB896424
20.KB896428
21.KB896688
22.KB898461 ……..# 2
23.KB899587
24.KB899589
25.KB899591
26.KB900725
27.KB901017
28.KB901214
29.KB902400
30.KB904706
31.KB905414
32.KB905749
33.KB905915
34.KB910437

A few things:

1. Windows update history reveals that have downloaded 40 updates till now, where could be the rest?

2. Secondly the Windows Installer update (050503-893803 (#1)), can’t find that?

3. Lastly where are the office updates stored?

Regards!

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 16th, 2005 at 8:53am
Sorry one more question.

On a fresh install of XP, is it necessary to install Ghost 2003, before imaging, despite the fact that a Ghost 2003 created PC DOS floppy diskette is  already at hand?

Regards.

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 16th, 2005 at 9:51am

Quote:
Following is the list of windows updates that  have been downloaded,present in the windows folder, size 101 MB, till today!

A bit confusing, if they are in the root of the Windows folder and blue colour, it is uninstall information. If they have the *.log extension, they are install logs. Neither can be copied to anywhere else and used for installation.


Quote:
1. Windows update history reveals that have downloaded 40 updates till now, where could be the rest?

I have no idea but the update history is cumulative, everything is counted from your first visit and on and I believe it includes Windows Automatic Update. It also includes non-critical updates.

You will have to download the updates directly to the hard disk. There are different versions of each update. Verify that you download for Windows XP SP2!

I use either

Download Center (which seems to have received a face-lift today)

which includes all Microsoft Updates or

Windows Update Catalog

for Updates to Windows only.


Quote:
2. Secondly the Windows Installer update (050503-893803 (#1)), can’t find that?


Get Windows Installer 3.1 Redistributable (v2) from the Download Center.


Quote:
3. Lastly where are the office updates stored?

At the Download Center. Always do the search for the complete number > KBxxxxxx not xxxxxx only or the search engine may miss it.

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 16th, 2005 at 9:54am

Quote:
On a fresh install of XP, is it necessary to install Ghost 2003, before imaging, despite the fact that a Ghost 2003 created PC DOS floppy diskette is  already at hand?

No, I always create the Ghost Boot Disks in advance on a current installation that is fully updated. I only use Ghost from within Windows to browse Images in Ghost Explorer. I install Ghost at the same time as NSW and NIS.

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 16th, 2005 at 10:14am
Hello Mr. Christer,

1.They are in the read only/ hidden folder named $hf_mig$, which is black & not blue which are the uninstall ones. Present in the main Windows (C:/windows) folder.

2.Thanks for clarifying about Ghost software install query.

3.Regarding office updates I meant where are they stored in the OS, folder etc?

4.Presently have installed only the critical updates for XP Pro SP2 & office XP SP3. No driver or recommended updates.

Regards!

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 16th, 2005 at 10:59am
Hello Mr. Christer,

Found 2 more updates, text files, unhidden, in C:/windows.

1. KB893803v2……….# 1
2. KB885884

The first is the Windows installer, yours No1. Don’t know about the second.

Regards!


Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 16th, 2005 at 11:03am

Quote:
1.They are in the read only/ hidden folder named $hf_mig$, which is black & not blue which are the uninstall ones. Present in the main Windows (C:/windows) folder.

Okey, you didn't specify the subfolder. That folder contains files which Windows Update use to cross reference file versions. This is to prevent an older version of a file being substituted for the most recent version (some files are shared and may be affected by different updates).

Are you telling me that you have used the stuff in $hf_mig$ to install the updates on the new installation?


Quote:
3.Regarding office updates I meant where are they stored in the OS, folder etc?

I don't think they are, I have searched for uninstall information but found nothing. I have also searched the registry but found no reference to Office Updates. There must be a reference ...... ??? ...... but where?

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 16th, 2005 at 11:06am

Quote:
Found 2 more updates, text files, unhidden, in C:/windows.


I have no idea whatsoever about what you are doing but it is clear that you are not following my suggestions!

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 16th, 2005 at 11:27am
Hello Mr. Christer,

No I didn’t use the stuff in $hf_mig$ folder to update.

The updating was done automatically the moment I got connected to the net after a fresh install XP SP2. I keep the auto always on & the Bits to manual.

I haven’t even started following your suggested way. Was just telling you where the updates were lying. This OS was installed months ago.

Once I get all the updates downloaded than shall I format & make a fresh install, updating XP & Office your way.

As far as services & software’s are concerned it’s not just hogging of resources, but more for security & utility.
I have had bad experiences with Norton & MacAfee so either I use AVG, Bit defender, Nod 32…….

As you mentioned earlier about your machine, despite poor installation, my machine with 1.8 GHZ CPU is more efficient than 2 GHZ plus machines & smoother in performance with only 512 of memory.

Basically am getting back ground knowledge to make a trouble free OS to last for a year at least.

Regards!

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 16th, 2005 at 12:06pm

Quote:
No I didn’t use the stuff in $hf_mig$ folder to update.

You got me worried there for a while ...... ;) ...... since I've never heard of anyone trying or being successful!


Quote:
Was just telling you where the updates were lying.

Those are not the complete updates. I have compared the size of the update with the size of the files in $hf_mig$:

For WindowsXP-KB905915-x86-SVE.exe the size is 4.75 MB compared to C:\Windows\ $hf_mig$\KB905915\update folder which is 1.13 MB.

Clearly not the same or even close.


Quote:
Once I get all the updates downloaded than shall I format & make a fresh install, updating XP & Office your way.

You should have the information you need to do that now.

One additional hint, if the updates to Office are burnt to CD, if you install from the CD, you will be prompted for the Office XP CD. If you copy to the hard disk and install from there, no need for the Office XP CD.

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 16th, 2005 at 12:33pm
Hello again Mr. Christer,

The sub folder $hf_mig$ of windows is of 101 MB size, contains 488 files, 101 folders, size on disk is 103 MB.

The KB905915 sub folder of it, contains 28 files, 2 folders, size 11.2 MB on disk.

Regards!





Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 19th, 2005 at 2:46pm
Hello Mr. Christer,

The following is a created list of XP SP2 Updates till today.

I made up this list keeping in view your created list & the list of updates already installed on my machine, running XP with SP2 & Office XP with SP3.

I have downloaded & saved them.

I shall be grateful if you could scan through the list & give your expert comments, views.

Following are my queries are:

1. Why are the build dates different on some of the updates, especially windows installer 3.1?

2. Why are there some extra updates installed on my OS?

3. Regarding KB-904706, there are 2 updates. One for just Direct Show & the other for Direct X 9. The one in your list (date wise) matches for the later, but in its properties it says it’s for XP SP1?

4. Reboot is required after Installer & Package update. Rest all should be installed in one go & the machine than rebooted or should reboot be performed after each update installation??

5. In what order should the XP updates be installed after Installer & Package updates, build date wise?

6. In your personal opinion is the GDI detection tool update critical & necessary?

Waiting to hear your expert views,

Regards!

List:

040924 – KB85884…Off XP later has to be installed.
041014 - KB887472.
041021 - KB886185.
041027 - KB885835. (041028)?
041028 – KB885836. (041029)?
041103 - KB887742.
041116 - KB888113.
051102 - KB890830. (To be installed at the last).
050502 – KB883939.
041117-KB873339
041207-KB888302
050111-KB891781 (05110)?
050119-KB885250 (05118)?
050321-KB890859 (050319)?
050503-KB893803 (#1) (041206)?
050507-KB894391.
050510-KB896422.
050511-KB896428. (050510)?
050517-KB890046.
050517-KB898461.
050525-KB893066.
050527-KB896358. (050526)?
050629-KB901214. (050628)?
050630-KB896423.
050630-KB899587.
050630-KB899591.
050709-KB893756. (050708)?
050726-KB902400. (050725)?
050818-KB899589. (050817)?
050822-KB905414.
050823-KB905749. (050822)?
050830-KB904706. (1.3MB) (051028)???
050830-KB904706. (966KB for Direct X 9.0)(050830) But it’s for XP SP1???
050910-KB901017. (050909)?
050928-KB900725. (050927)?
051005-KB896688.  (051004)?
051006-KB896424. (051005)?
041117-KB873339.
051130-KB905915.
041025-KB888240.
050318-KB890923.
050719-KB896727.
051201-KB910437.

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 19th, 2005 at 6:45pm
Hello Ivanov!


Quote:
1. Why are the build dates different on some of the updates, especially windows installer 3.1?

As I mentioned in Reply #8, my dates are the date of the digital signature, not build-, publish- or release-date. We have different language versions, I have swedish and you english (I presume). Don't worry about that.

About Windows Installer 3.1, there have been two versions, it should be WindowsInstaller-KB893803-v2-x86.exe


Quote:
2. Why are there some extra updates installed on my OS?

If you refer to the ones that I have marked RED then they are old cumulative updates to Internet Explorer, all superseeded by the last one = KB905915 (GREEN in your list).

KB888240 is strange. It is an update to Internet Explorer but I have only found it in the english version. I only found the download, not the descriptive KB-article. Don't install it but follow my list. Later, when you have connected to the internet and check Windows Update, if it is offered, install it but I don't think it will be.


Quote:
3. Regarding KB-904706, there are 2 updates. One for just Direct Show & the other for Direct X 9. The one in your list (date wise) matches for the later, but in its properties it says it’s for XP SP1?

There have been two versions, it should be WindowsXP-KB904706-v2-x86-ENU.exe and I quote the KB-article: "Microsoft DirectX 8.1 on Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 1 and Microsoft DirectX 9.0c on Microsoft Windows XP with Service Pack 2".

Your date is correct but mine also. I downloaded the update when it was "new" and the file name is WindowsXP-KB904706-x86-SVE.exe ( 050830 ) but the file I downloaded today is named WindowsXP-KB904706-v2-x86-SVE.exe ( 051028 ) but since I have not been prompted for it, I assume it is the same (but different ...... :-X ......)


Quote:
4. Reboot is required after Installer & Package update. Rest all should be installed in one go & the machine than rebooted or should reboot be performed after each update installation??

I recommend to reboot after #1 and #2 which are out of sequence. Install the others with a single reboot when done.


Quote:
5. In what order should the XP updates be installed after Installer & Package updates, build date wise?

I don't have the time to check the build dates. As I mentioned earlier, I refer to the date of the digital signature and install in that order. (I don't think it is important. I believe that after SP2 it can handle any order by the information in the $hf_mig$ folder.)


Quote:
6. In your personal opinion is the GDI detection tool update critical & necessary?

No, that's a piece of garbage that Microsoft should be ashamed of. It only directs to a download of other updates. Those "other updates" are included in my list and if you follow that one, you will not be prompted for the GDI detection tool.

Your list with my comments, bold = correct date according to the digital signature (for the swedish version of the file, other language versions may differ):

040924 – KB85884…Off XP later has to be installed.
Office XP does not have to be installed later but if you don't get KB885884 and install Office XP afterwards, you will be prompted for it when you visit Windows Update.
041014 - KB887472.
041021 - KB886185.
041027 - KB885835. ( 041028 )?
041028 – KB885836. ( 041029 )?
I proof-read my list but got them wrong ...... :-[ ......
041103 - KB887742.
041116 - KB888113.
051102 - KB890830. (To be installed at the last).
Not necessarily but I have them in a separate folder. As I mentioned earlier, this one has been replaced by 051209-890830.
050502 – KB883939.
041117-KB873339
041207-KB888302
050111-KB891781 ( 05110 )?
050119-KB885250 ( 05118 )?
050321-KB890859 ( 050319)?
050503-KB893803 (#1) ( 041206 )?
050507-KB894391.
050510-KB896422.
050511-KB896428. ( 050510 )?
050517-KB890046.
050517-KB898461.
050525-KB893066.
050527-KB896358. ( 050526 )?
050629-KB901214. ( 050628 )?
050630-KB896423.
050630-KB899587.
050630-KB899591.
050709-KB893756. ( 050708 )?
050726-KB902400. ( 050725 )?
050818-KB899589. ( 050817 )?
050822-KB905414.
050823-KB905749. ( 050822 )?
050830-KB904706. (1.3MB) ( 051028 )
050830-KB904706. (966KB for Direct X 9.0)( 050830 ) But it’s for XP SP1
050910-KB901017. ( 050909 )?
050928-KB900725. ( 050927 )?
051005-KB896688.  ( 051004 )?
051006-KB896424. ( 051005 )?
041117-KB873339.
051130-KB905915.
[041025-KB888240.]
The strange one, don't install until later if prompted by Windows Update.
050318-KB890923.
050719-KB896727.
051201-KB910437.

This means that we are back to my list and as I said, don't worry about the dates, just install in my order from top to bottom with the exception of #1 and #2. The reason why I install those two before all others is that when going to Windows Update with a virgin (no updates, just SP2) system, those two are offered first with a reboot and the next visit will offer the rest in one batch.

What I (myself) have learnt from this:

1) The updates are dynamic and may be replaced by equivalent new versions which means that the dates may not be the same.

2) I will no longer quote the dates but only the KB-article number. #1 and #2 will still be marked for installation first and second but the rest in "random order" relying on the $hf_mig$ folder.

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 19th, 2005 at 7:42pm

Quote:
I proof-read my list but got them wrong ...... :-[ ......

Comparing the original list it seems like I didn't get them wrong but that someone made several typing errors ...... 8) ...... !

To compensate, I discovered mistakes among the updates to Office XP ...... :-[ ...... !

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 20th, 2005 at 8:59am
Since SP2, three updates to Windows XP have been released in revised versions:

KB893803 > KB893803-v2
KB893066 > KB893066-v2

Users were notified of the revised versions of the above updates through Windows Update and/or Windows Automatic Update. (Well, I was!)

I found the fact that KB904706-v2 had been released without notification through WU or WAU disturbing and wanted to find out the three W's (What-When-Why).

According to Microsoft Security Bulletin MS05-050 the update was revised for the following reason:

There are many possible combinations of Operating System and DiectX version. If the correct version of the original update is chosen, then all is OK. If an incorrect version is chosen, it appears to install OK but nothing gets updated and the user gets no message. The revised update give the user a message if installation of an incorrect version is attempted.

It also says that users who installed the correct version of the original update need not take any action. (My conclusion is that if the original version installed OK, the revised version is not offered through WU or WAU.)

No matter what, I downloaded the revised version and replaced the original one in my archive ...... 8) ...... !

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 20th, 2005 at 11:39am
Hello Mr. Christer,

Thanks for sharing your expert views, comments.

This is my list of XP Updates with digital signatures now.

040924 – KB885884…Off XP later has to be installed.
041015 - KB887472.
041021 - KB886185.
041028 - KB885835.
041029 – KB885836.
041104 - KB887742.
041117 - KB888113.
051209 - KB890830. (To be installed at the last).
050503 – KB883939.
041118-KB873339
041208-KB888302
050111-KB891781
050120-KB885250
050321-KB890859
050505-KB893803…. (#1)
050507-KB894391
050510-KB896422
050511-KB896428
050517-KB890046
050518-KB898461…. (#2)
050526-KB893066
050527-KB896358
050629-KB901214
050630-KB896423
050701-KB899587
050630-KB899591
050709-KB893756
050726-KB902400
050818-KB899589
050823-KB905414
050823-KB905749
051029-KB904706 (1.3MB) WindowsXP-KB904706-v2-x86-ENU.

050830-KB904706 (966KB for Direct X 9.0) but it’s for XP SP1??? WindowsXP-KB904706-DX9-x86-ENU

050910-KB901017
050929-KB900725
051005-KB896688
051006-KB896424
041118-KB873339
051201-KB905915
041026-KB888240
050319-KB890923
050720-KB896727
051202-KB910437

1. Thanks for your personal comments regarding GDI detection tool.
2. You mean to say that I can safely remove the update KB-904706 (966KB),

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=36fbed29-e264-4bc7-ab48-2cc4a59acaa1&DisplayLang=en

It’s conflicting & confusing, since SP2 has Direct X 9 present  in System 32 folder, the update is for X 9 but SP1. Whilst the other update is for SP2 but is for Direct Show.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2636cfce-49ea-4d06-80ba-21a84f3658a5&DisplayLang=en


3. Thanks again for sharing your views regarding Windows Installer update & other non required updates like KB-896688, KB-890923, and KB-896727. Can I remove them from my list?

4. KB-888240, which I shall not install & let you know what happens.


The list of updates for Office XP:

040312-KB833858
040828-KB873379
040914-KB837253
050129-KB873352
050202-KB890829
050618-KB895589
050925-KB904018

Waiting to hear your expert views,

Regards!

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 20th, 2005 at 2:19pm
Hello Ivanov!


Quote:
1. Thanks for your personal comments regarding GDI detection tool.

You're welcome ...... ;) ...... !


Quote:
2. You mean to say that I can safely remove the update KB-904706 (966KB), ...

Yes, I don't have it and I'm not prompted for it at Windows Update, conclusion > not needed!

WinXP SP1 came with DirectX 8 and this update is for WinXP SP1 upgraded to DirectX 9. You have SP2 which includes DirectX 9 and that's different.


Quote:
It’s conflicting & confusing, since SP2 has Direct X 9 present  in System 32 folder, the update is for X 9 but SP1. Whilst the other update is for SP2 but is for Direct Show.

I agree that it's confusing. It's the second one you need.


Quote:
3. Thanks again for sharing your views regarding Windows Installer update & other non required updates like KB-896688, KB-890923, and KB-896727. Can I remove them from my list?

Yes, I indicated items to be removed by a strike-through in my recent comments!


Quote:
4. KB-888240, which I shall not install & let you know what happens.

Good decision, will be interesting to hear about that one!

Apart from having 041118-KB873339 twice, your lists are looking like my lists now. Your Office XP list is the same as mine. When installing updates to Office XP, reboot as prompted.

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 25th, 2005 at 10:09am
Hello Mr. Christer,

Merry Christmas! Hope you are having a great one.

I did as you had suggested.

Wanted to experiment & let you know the results.

Following is the way I fresh installed XP, Office & other utilities.

The reason for the detailed reply is for you to analyze, suggest & answer some questions still lurking in my mind.

I would prefer to have an OS which should at least give me about 6 months of trouble free before having to reformat & install.

1.Installed XP with SP2 & Office with SP3.

2.Firstly installed XP updates, starting with Installer & Package than reboot & later the rest in one go.

3.Reboot than installed Office updates in one go.

4.Reboot again.

5.Created an image using Ghost 03, at this stage did not change any services etc.



040924 – KB885884…Off XP later has to be installed.
041015 - KB887472.
041021 - KB886185.
041028 - KB885835.
041029 – KB885836.
041104 - KB887742.
041117 - KB888113.
051209 - KB890830. (To be installed at the last).
050503 – KB883939.
041118-KB873339
041208-KB888302
050111-KB891781
050120-KB885250
050321-KB890859
050505-KB893803…. (#1)
050507-KB894391
050510-KB896422
050511-KB896428
050517-KB890046
050518-KB898461…. (#2)
050526-KB893066
050527-KB896358
050629-KB901214
050630-KB896423
050701-KB899587
050630-KB899591
050709-KB893756
050726-KB902400
050818-KB899589
050823-KB905414
050823-KB905749
051029-KB904706 (1.3MB) WindowsXP-KB904706-v2-x86-ENU
050910-KB901017
050929-KB900725
051006-KB896424
051201-KB905915
051202-KB910437




The list of updates for Office XP:

040312-KB833858
040828-KB873379
040914-KB837253
050129-KB873352
050202-KB890829
050618-KB895589
050925-KB904018


6.Installed the required drivers & went one line. On scanning no updates were required for either XP or Office. You were very correct AS ALWAYS. Neither the STRANGE one or the old cumulative ones.

7.But will scanning MS downloaded an Active X for Office update Engine & WUW class control.

8.Any how decided to see how good I was at image restoration, so successfully restored the created image over the OS.

9.So at the moment I have only 1 raw image created after initial install.

10.Than I changed some of the services to my needs.

11.Installed required drivers.

12.Installed AVG from a CD & updated.

13.Than Ad aware SE & Spy bot 1.4 & updated both.

14.To my utter surprise, on reboot I found MS dumping tool, in Spy bot start up. I had some info regarding it & why it occurs & such an entry can safely be deleted & the exact cause of its appearance can be found through some file in system 32 folder? Could any services configuration change be the culprit, because I did not have any power shut down etc?

15.Than had to go online to www.macromedia.com to download flash player 8.0 & shock wave player 10.

16. Installed WinZip, WinRAR, Adobe reader 7.0, Disk keeper, Tune up Utilities all from another drive.

17.Ghost 2003 from a CD & updated it.

18. Installed Nero for my burner & Logitech for the cam drivers both again from a CD.

19.Lastly used Disk keeper to configure MFT & defrag.

20.Tune up to defrag system registry.


Now my questions are:

1.Regarding software/ drivers installations what steps did I take wrong?

2.At what other steps should I have imaged the OS?

3.What should the settings be for windows update?
4.Should I keep the windows update at automatically download & install OR notify me?

5.Spy bot system internals to be ignored gives this message:

a.% JavaDir%QT java.zip Missing shared DLL.
b.Install exe wrong path.
c.MsoHtmEd.ex  wrong path.
d.Winnt.32.exe   wrong path.


6.How can one be alerted about any new security/ express/ critical update regarding XP & Office, asides from scanning?

7.Is it ok to install Office update engine active X & WUB class control?

8.If supposing new updates are released, what exactly should be the procedure to install them……..install on the current running OS OR download & install them the initial raw image after its restoration?

9.Can you please specify what caused the MS dumping tool entry to appear?

10.Finally is image restoration over an OS is as good a format?

Sorry to have bothered you again.

After your response I shall once again fresh install OS, Office, updates, utilities etc, imaging side by side as per your recommendations.

Regards!

Ivanov


Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 25th, 2005 at 10:58am

Sorry Mr. Christer,

Just to add, I installed acdesee 8.0 from a CD & Java run time (Java 2 Runtime Environment, SE v1.4.2_07) from my drive.

While creating an image should the Documents, Local Settings, Temp folder be emptied along with the Windows, Prefetch? Apart from doing a drive defrag?

Hoping to hear your comments.

Regards!

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 26th, 2005 at 7:45pm
Hello Ivanov!

Merry Christmas to you too, mine is proceeding as usual, no surprises.


Quote:
I would prefer to have an OS which should at least give me about 6 months of trouble free before having to reformat & install.

I installed WinXP in february 2004 and reinstalled in september 2004, not because it needed a reinstallation but because it was part of my "learning curve". With a good imaging strategy, you will not have to reinstall WinXP from square one, unless you want to.


Quote:
1.Regarding software/ drivers installations what steps did I take wrong?

None that I can see.


Quote:
2.At what other steps should I have imaged the OS?

At whichever point you think would be convenient to "roll back" to.


Quote:
3.What should the settings be for windows update?
4.Should I keep the windows update at automatically download & install OR notify me?

I have set it to notify but do nothing until I say so. I never say so but take notes on which updates are available and go to Microsoft Download to get them. I always store the updates in my archive.


Quote:
5.Spy bot system internals to be ignored gives this message:

a.% JavaDir%QT java.zip Missing shared DLL.
b.Install exe wrong path.
c.MsoHtmEd.ex  wrong path.
d.Winnt.32.exe   wrong path.

You've lost me here. Even if there is a question, I probably don't know the answer since I don't use Spybot the way you do.


Quote:
6.How can one be alerted about any new security/ express/ critical update regarding XP & Office, asides from scanning?

You are alerted of updates to Windows by the above settings but not to Office. When alerted and downloading the updates to Windows, I check Office Update manually.

Microsoft Update is an "upgrade" that I have denied. It would replace Windows Update and Office Update giving you all in one place. The reason on my part for not "upgrading" to Microsoft Update is that I like to have them separated, no question about what is what.


Quote:
7.Is it ok to install Office update engine active X & WUB class control?

Yes, without it ...... ;) ...... no updates to Office!


Quote:
9.Can you please specify what caused the MS dumping tool entry to appear?

Regrettably no, I have no idea.

"To my utter surprise, on reboot I found MS dumping tool, in Spy bot start up." > How did you run Spybot to find it?


Quote:
10.Finally is image restoration over an OS is as good a format?

It equals a quick format in that it rewrites the Master File Table. The difference between a quick format and a full format is that the latter includes a test to verify each sector. If you suspect disk error, reinstall WinXP and do a full format during the installation. If no errors, the test is done and you can restore the appropriate image.


Quote:
Just to add, I installed acdesee 8.0 from a CD & Java run time (Java 2 Runtime Environment, SE v1.4.2_07) from my drive.

That version of Sun Java is no longer recommended or continued (as far as I know). Get Version 5.0 Update 6 instead.


Quote:
While creating an image should the Documents, Local Settings, Temp folder be emptied along with the Windows, Prefetch? Apart from doing a drive defrag?

I always do some "house cleaning" prior to creating an Image. I clear all temp folders, in Internet Explorer (or whichever browser is used), I clear cookies, temporary internet files and history. I empty the recycle bin and as a Norton SystemWorks user, I also purge the norton protected recycle bin. I see no reason to clear the prefetch folder. It would actually slow things down for a while until it gets "reconstructed". Finally, a defragmentation.

When it comes to the target location for the Images, I use a partition dedicated to Images and nothing else. The reason is that I never defragment that partition. I delete Images when I run out of space but I never ask for trouble by defragmenting.

Each month, prior to installing the batch of updates to Windows, I create an Image. There is room for 4-6 Images and when space runs out I delete all those but not any of the "master" Images created during the installation.

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 27th, 2005 at 10:28am
Hello Mr. Christer,

Thanks for your very prompt, elaborate reply which answered most of my questions.

As earlier said you are ALWAYS CORRECT.

I hope you aren’t getting offended by simple/ stupid queries. Please do realize that am new to this computer related stuff, but a fast learner too. (I think so.)

Thanks for clarifying about Office Update & WUW class active X controls, settings for Auto updates, views about imaging & image recreation being good as a quick format, software installation, new version of Java Run time.

Firstly regarding Spy bot, I use it in the advanced mode option. When opened in this mode, on the left corner is “Settings”. The last one is “Ignore System Internals”, in that I found the 4 errors regarding Java missing shared dll, Install exe. wrong path, Winnt32.exe. wrong path & MsoHtmEd.exe wrong path.

If you go in the section beneath Settings is the “Tools”.  That shows the Startup programs, where I found the MS dumping tool.

It’s smart indeed, to note when a XP update is available & download it later & adding to your archieve.

Regarding an office update I agree totally that they could be checked either manually or by Office Update Engine X.

Just a point I noted while online. If one subscribes to this site, having a hotmail account, one can be notified about an Office Product Alerts?

http://www.microsoft.com/office/using/newsletter.mspx

Now some queries about imaging.

What happens to a Ghost image, if that drive is defragmented?

As you mentioned you create & delete several images according to your needs/ requirements. The first basic/ Master one always stays……. Supposing you find new updates for XP or Office, which image shall you restore to install those, the last best or the first basic?

Hoping to hear your views, as always & please tell me to stop when I start to bug you.


Regards!

Ivanov.

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 27th, 2005 at 5:09pm
Hello Ivanov!


Quote:
I hope you aren’t getting offended by simple/ stupid queries. Please do realize that am new to this computer related stuff, but a fast learner too. (I think so.)

There are no stupid quiries ...... ;) ...... only dumb answers!


Quote:
Firstly regarding Spy bot, I use it in the advanced mode option. When opened in this mode, on the left corner is “Settings”. The last one is “Ignore System Internals”, in that I found the 4 errors regarding Java missing shared dll, Install exe. wrong path, Winnt32.exe. wrong path & MsoHtmEd.exe wrong path.

Hmm ...... :-[ ...... I have used Spybot for years but only ever hit two buttons, "Search for Updates" and "Check for problems". I have the same entries as you do. It says that they are detections that I (myself) have excluded but I don't remember having done that.


Quote:
If you go in the section beneath Settings is the “Tools”.  That shows the Startup programs, where I found the MS dumping tool.

I don't have it (now) but I remember that I found it in the RUN section of the registry on one occasion. I don't remember what I did but once invoked, it remains in the RUN section. I deleted it manually and had no problems. I will try to remember ...... ??? ...... !


Quote:
Just a point I noted while online. If one subscribes to this site, having a hotmail account, one can be notified about an Office Product Alerts?

http://www.microsoft.com/office/using/newsletter.mspx

I had a quick look and it seems like you can subscribe to different "notifications". However, and I quote from that site:


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Then sign in to Microsoft .NET Passport with your e-mail address (or register for a .NET Passport and then sign in).

I once had a Microsoft .NET Passport linked to my hotmail account (which I have for trash). At that time, I had trouble with Windows Messenger auto-starting and logging me on. All of a sudden a message popped up, informing me that someone wanted to chat with me. It was totally random and very efficient at pissing me off. It took a while to put the Passport in connection with the problem and how to remove it from the computer but once removed, Windows Messenger has behaved itself. I wouldn't touch such a Passport with a ten-foot pole!


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What happens to a Ghost image, if that drive is defragmented?

If the defragmenter is smart, then it doesn't even try but if it is less so, it may go sour. An image file is large. I have set a split at 650 MB to be able to burn to CD's if the need should arise. The last span of the image may be smaller, anything from a few kB to 650 MB. So, if one span gets fragmented, the percentage of fragmented files is high.

How the files get fragmented depends on the file system:

On FAT32, Ghost 2003 leaves a tiny slack space between each span of an Image but the files themselves are not fragmented. The defragmenter will "fix" that slack space but a lot of things can go wrong when a file is moved a fraction of its size.

See: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/Engdahl/Ghost/E-drive-FAT32-created.jpg

On NTFS, Ghost does not leave any slack space between the spans but there are two obstructions to Ghost, the reserved MFT (Master File Table) zone and the copy of the first MFT entry. When the writing gets to one of the obstructions, the file will be parted in two, technically "fragmented" but not really.

See: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/Engdahl/Ghost/G-drive-NTFS-created.jpg


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As you mentioned you create & delete several images according to your needs/ requirements. The first basic/ Master one always stays……. Supposing you find new updates for XP or Office, which image shall you restore to install those, the last best or the first basic?

During the last installation, I created six Images at different stages and all of those are sacred. I have them on two partitions on two different hard disks. The monthly image is by me considered to be a "snapshot" for speedy recovery with no reinstallation whatsoever. When a new "snapshot" is created, all previous ones get obsolete and when the partition gets full, they get deleted.

As long as things work OK, I install new updates and new applications as I wish. Of course, I do some house cleaning prior to creating a new "snapshot" but I don't roll back unless I have a specific reason. One such reason is the expiry of my Norton Internet Security 2003 subscription. When that happens, I will roll back to the Image created prior to installing Norton and take it from there. I will have to reinstall quite a few updates and some programs but it sure beats removing Norton manually. I estimate ~2 hours of work and the creation of two new Images,  one with only the "rolled back" updates reinstalled and the new Norton installed and another with the other programs reinstalled. Those programs are overdue for reinstallation since they have all been superseeded by new versions.

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 28th, 2005 at 4:05pm
Hello Mr. Christer,

Please correct me where I am wrong, regarding Ghost images & defragmentation.

Did your answer imply the following?

Is it better to save images on a FAT32 than an NTFS drive?

Supposing if it doesn’t make any difference, than is it wise not to defragment that NTFS drive?

Are only Ghost images affected on a NTFS drive, if a defragger is used or any type of data/ soft wares affected?

Lastly, supposing if the drive doesn’t show or have any bad sectors/ clusters, is it good enough to perform a Quick format even for a fresh install?

Does a Full, Zero fill format have any adverse affect on a drive (if performed frequently)?

I apologize for my poor understanding & comprehension of your technical comments & images.

Regards!
Ivanov.

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 28th, 2005 at 5:50pm
Hello Ivanov!


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Is it better to save images on a FAT32 than an NTFS drive?

From a reliability point of view: No, it doesn't matter which file system the target partition is formated.

From a performance point of view: It differs from system to system depending on the hardware (chip set drivers and hard disk firmware). On my system, creating to NTFS is executed at ~900 MB/min but to FAT32 at ~150 MB/min. There is a loooooong topic on the issue but we (including SS = Symantec Support) did not find the reason. Other members of this forum had different experiences but in general, NTFS is the safe(st) bet.


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Supposing if it doesn’t make any difference, than is it wise not to defragment that NTFS drive?

No matter which file system - do not defragment.


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Are only Ghost images affected on a NTFS drive, if a defragger is used or any type of data/ soft wares affected?

A ghost image consists of large files which may be in two fragments and as I said earlier, that's not really fragmented. I also explained why I (personally) believe it may go wrong.

Other files that are written to by the system or a program or even the user may be in tens or hundreds of fragments ...... :o ...... and that IS fragmented. All these fragments are merged into a contigous space as an unfragmented file.


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Lastly, supposing if the drive doesn’t show or have any bad sectors/ clusters, is it good enough to perform a Quick format even for a fresh install?

Even if the drive doesn't show anything, you can not be sure unless you run a utility to check the hard disk. Each manufacturer have their own utility. I (almost) never run those utilities but I always do a full format. The time it takes may feel looong but it is a basic test of the hard disk.


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Does a Full, Zero fill format have any adverse affect on a drive (if performed frequently)?

No but I don't see why you would want to do that "frequently".

I have done it once on a IBM Deskstar 60GXP. This model is plagued by unreliability issues and has been called the "Deathstar". The IBM Drive Fitness Test found nothing wrong with it and I'm still using it to temporarily backup systems that I'm working on.


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I apologize for my poor understanding & comprehension of your technical comments & images.

No reason for apologies. It's difficult to give non technical answers to technical questions, though.

Christer

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by yezinki on Dec 29th, 2005 at 9:21am
Hello Mr. Christer,

Thanks a lot for taking out the time & replying to all my queries regarding XP, Imaging etc.

I really do appreciate your kind & valued assistance.

I might bother you again some time.

Till than take care.
Regards!
Ivanov.

Title: Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Post by Christer on Dec 29th, 2005 at 9:52am
Ivanov,
you're welcome ...... :) ...... !

Christer

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