Greetings all....
I did apply to have an actual account here, but no email has shown up yet, so I'll post this way in the mean time.

HP Laptop.
Failing 40Gb HD.
Used SpinRite to get it safe (and booting, just slow, but all appears intact)
Great.
Grabbed a new 80Gb HD for it, and a bootable Ghost 8 CD we have in the lab. (we use them all day long to clone student drives, from images, from other drives, etc -- no problem)

Two adapters, and a tower machine later, I have the old drive, and the new drive, on separate cables, running, and Ghost 8 doing a Disk to Disk copy.
I let it re-size the parition on the new one, to the full space of the drive (not usually a problem).
I also (the second time) added the -IB (I think) option... the one that's supossed to copy the boot info.

Copy went fine... took about 35 minutes.
Exit, turn off machine.
Take new HD to laptop, and install.
No boot.
Bios POST finishes, it checks the DVDRom for a bootable, and then just black screen, flashing cursor in the upper left.

I've been digging in google for answers... but never seem to find a clean copy of this problem. And then I found you guys. :)

Anyhow... the drive is there, it's running, the data is intact.
If I boot from the XP/sp2 CD, into recovery console, I can connect to the OS install, dir the drive, run commands etc.

I have tried fixboot, fixmbr, and a few others, to no avail.
It seems to change how much HD light activity there is at boot time, but still nothing more than the black screen...

Funny thing is, after years of GHost 7, 7.5 and 8, I've only ever seen this once before, and it was another HP laptop... and Windows 98. At the time, I think we just booted a floppy of 98 dos, and "sys C:" the thing, and that did it.

These days... I'd think that's what fixboot is doing... but maybe I need more? Or in the correct order?

Since I do still have a master, that I consider sort of safe, I did try a repair install of XP overtop... but that wouldn't boot either.

If the bios couldn't see it, I shouldn't be able to get into the recovery and see it... is my logic... so I don't think it's a HD size limit. Besides, that usually happens at 32gb, and the original is a 40.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Andrew

Further...

After searching more (yes, I do search)... I grabbed that MBRWizD and put it on a bootable CD.

Ran it...

Disk 0, size 76Gb.
pos 0, MBRndx 0, type 07-NTFS, size 76g, active yes, hide no, start secotor 63, sectors 156,296,322

That help any?
I tried using the set active menu option, but nothing changed.

Andrew,

It doesn't sound typical but have you tried Method #3? Bottom of page.

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm

Thanks for the reply... I don't think it applies, since I don't get any boot activity at all, and those topics seem to deal with OS where the initial boot has actually happened....

But I tried it anyhow, and it didn't help. :(

XP recover console sees the install, as C:\WINDOWS

Andrew Bienhaus


Quote:

HP Laptop

Many laptops appear to have *hidden* recovery and utility partitions--which change the *normal* default settings you would expect in the *boot.ini* file.

Do you know if there are/were additional *hidden* partitions on the HP laptop's old HDD?

Can you use Recovery Console to *grab* the *boot.ini* off the new HDD, and also get the *boot.ini* off the old HDD--compare and/or post here for review.

Here's a tool for looking at and editing *boot.ini* on a NTFS partition from a DOS floppy boot disk (or bootable optical media that boots to DOS) :

TeraByte Unlimited Freeware--See *EditBini*

Well, problem APPEARS to be fixed.

And, yes, many HP/compaq units come with special partitions, but this is one I bought refurb, so I installed XP fresh on the HD originally.

SO, the solution?

In a logical effort to narrow possibilities... I tried a fresh FULL install of XP on the new HD, on the laptop. In other words, kill existing partitions (which it did see), format the drive, install XP.... and see if it can actually boot. (thus, eliminating or confirming hardware conflict between HD and Laptop)

Well, it formatted, installed, and rebooted with success!

So, rather than letting the install finish, I just shut it off.

Back to the bench, where the original laptop drive was still on the IDE adapter... Ghost 8, partition copy, overtop of the new partition on the new 80Gb. Theory being, just overwrite the data, and leave any "whole HD boot specific info" alone.

Clone successful.

80Gb back into laptop.... and I'm in. :)

New hardware found... (the HD).... and one more reboot at it's request. I'm back where I should be.

Few more tests, to check that everything works... but it looks good, and booted faster than it has in a while... I guess the old girl's HD was in a bad way for a while.

Andrew Bienhaus

Just to clarify--in your last post you state you did a *partition copy*, and in your original post you stated a *Disk to Disk* copy--these are two different procedures and could have different outcomes.

*Disk to Disk* *should* have been successful, and *partition copy* probably would not be successful in creating a bootable *clone*.

Looks like the partial install of fresh WinXP corrected some unknown problem in the Master Boot Record/Boot Sector on the new HDD.

Maybe I need to be more clear...

All Ghosting, was done from a standalone PC, with a bootable disk, so NO operating system other than DOS was loaded.

Originally, I did several (and I mean many) copies, always as "disk to disk", with no success. (old working but tired HD, to new HD)
As you noted, that should have been enough.
On normal PCs, it always is.
Laptops, seem to have something odd...

What fixed it, was doing a partial INSTALL of XP on the new hard drive, enough of an install to prove that the new HD was actually booting on it's own, in the laptop...

Then, a Ghost partition-to-partition copy, from the original HD, overtop of the new partial XP install.

Does that make it more clear? :)

I'm glad you have it fixed, Andrew.

I haven't "cloned" a laptop drive but I have restored an image. The C drive partition (single partition HD) was imaged to a desktop computer over the network. The new HD was installed in the laptop and I used a BartPE/ Ghost 9 CD to restore the image over the network.

NightOwl, all of my "clones" have been partition to partition. I did 15 a few days ago and all booted. I've never tried disk to disk.

Brian wrote on Feb 12^th, 2006 at 2:03pm:

NightOwl, all of my "clones" have been partition to partition. I did 15 a few days ago and all booted. I've never tried disk to disk.

Brian, your title needs changing from "Official Rad Warrior" to "Official Cloning Warrior"

That's a record!  Any advice for us Rad Noob's?

John, I was really trying to make the clone process fail, but couldn't. Several times I did the no-no. Copied old HD to new HD, then made new the Master and old the Slave, then booted to the Master. It booted. Conventional advice is to boot to the new master HD on the first occasion with the slave HD not attached. Then the slave can be reattached and the slave will have an active primary partition with a drive letter (not C drive).

For Ghost 9/10 you should copy into Unallocated Space, don’t assign a drive letter and Copy the MBR. Remove the old HD before booting to the new HD.

Brian


Quote:

NightOwl, all of my "clones" have been partition to partition. I did 15 a few days ago and all booted. I've never tried disk to disk.

Probably talking *apples and oranges*--I'm referring to Ghost 2003--you are probably referring to Ghost 9 or 10--where I think you select options to transfer the Master Boot Record and/or make the copy the boot partition--Ghost 2003 has none of that!  

You will only get the Master Boot Record transferred *automatically* using Ghost 2003 if it's a *disk to disk* or *disk to image* and then a *whole disk image to disk restore* procedure.  If you do just a *partition to partition* or a *partition to image*, the Master Boot Record is usually not included in the transfer, unless you use a *switch* to force the transfer.

NightOwl wrote on Feb 12^th, 2006 at 5:43pm:

Brian Probably talking *apples and oranges*--I'm referring to Ghost 2003--you are probably referring to Ghost 9 or 10--where I think you select options to transfer the Master Boot Record and/or make the copy the boot partition--Ghost 2003 has none of that!

I agree for Ghost 9. But I doubt copying with Partition Magic does copy the MBR. And that booted too.
In the Acronis TI group they say the same about a disc to disc copy as you are saying about Ghost 2003. I haven't tried copying with Acronis TI.
So I remain confused about the partition to partition copy. With new HD's I've always done an image to partition restore, but not with Ghost 2003, and that always works.

"Apples to Oranges" sums it up.

Brian

Could you clarify--


Quote:

I agree for Ghost 9. But I doubt copying with Partition Magic does copy the MBR. And that booted too. and all of my "clones" have been partition to partition. I did 15 a few days ago and all booted. I've never tried disk to disk.

So, you are talking about doing partition *clones* with PartitionMagic using it's copy feature--and not Ghost of any flavor?!


Quote:

But I doubt copying with Partition Magic does copy the MBR. And that booted too.

You could test this--use a *wipe* program that also *zero outs* the boot sector so there is no Master Boot Record or Partition Table--i.e. a factory fresh HDD that needs to be partitioned and formatted before you can use it (either using a partitioning utility (ex.--fdisk or WinXP Disk Management) and a formatting utility--or using a program that does both internally like Ghost--or maybe PartitionMagic's copy program does this too?!)

If using the *copy* partition with PartitionMagic onto a *factory fresh* HDD renders it bootable--then PartitionMagic must be creating the Master Boot Record and Partition Table *on the fly* while creating a copy to that new HDD--but how does it *know* it's supposed to be a bootable OS partition--would have to be checking all that out as part of preparing to *copy*!

What happens if you copy a *hidden* partition to a *factory fresh* HDD--would that be *bootable*--I suspect not--would it even allow the copy?  Could it then be made unhidden and active with PartitionMagic and then bootable?

Oh.....so many questions  ;) , so few answers !!!

NightOwl,

I started out to see if the “Copy a Partition” in Partition Magic could produce a bootable “clone” on another hard drive. It does and it’s very easy to use. I then became sidetracked into using Ghost 9 and CasperXP but that was mainly because I was trying to make the process fail.

My statement about PM and the MBR was glib and I have no evidence.

The HD’s that I used were partitioned and I simply deleted the first partition to create Unallocated Space for the copy. (PM will only do the copy into Unallocated Space but Ghost 9 can copy to a partition as well.) The original MBR may have helped me inadvertently. I don’t have a factory fresh HD to try your suggestion but the results would certainly be interesting.

When is the MBR created? Say you have a fresh HD and you partition it (using PM floppies) to an active primary partition and an extended partition with logical drives, does it now have a MBR?

Brian wrote on Feb 12^th, 2006 at 6:40pm:

In the Acronis TI group they say the same about a disc to disc copy as you are saying about Ghost 2003. I haven't tried copying with Acronis TI.

With your extensive experience with Ghost 9, Ghost 10, Casper XP, have you ever considered testing the (I think free) version of Acronis XP? I would be very interested in your comparative opinions about the differences of the competitive products.  I know Ghost, Acronis, and Casper arent' the exhaustive list of imaging products, but certainly Symantec Ghost and Acronis TrueImage are often considered two of the top contenders.

Of course this may end up like comparing Word vs. WordPerfect a few years ago.

Brian


Quote:

When is the MBR created? Say you have a fresh HD and you partition it (using PM floppies) to an active primary partition and an extended partition with logical drives, does it now have a MBR?

I think the moment you create a partition, you create a MBR--yup--here's a reference:

How It Works:  Master Boot Record (MBR)

*Absolute Sector 0* is the boot sector--of which only part of it is actually used--to contain the MBR, the Partition Table, Disk ID, Disk Overlay if your system uses it, and possible other stuff depending on your system setup and software (i.e. linux *Grub Loader*).  This is also where Ghost 2003 *marks* the HDD that Ghost 2003 requests to do, and it stores the Ghost *fingerprint* which shows the last Ghost procedure done on that HDD.

Ghost 2003 has *gdisk.exe*, which is a DOS based Ghost version of MS *fdisk.exe*.  It's a *command line* program that you run after booting to DOS from the floppy disk or after booting to DOS, you can change to some other directory that DOS has access to and run *gdisk.exe* from that directory.

GDisk.exe is found here on my system:

C:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks\Norton Ghost\gdisk.exe


To see how Gdisk enumerates the HDD's on the system use:

gdisk /status

Here's my status report on a system with two HDD's:

Disk  Partitions  Cylinders  Heads  Sectors  Mbytes  Model
  1       8        14593     255      63  114473.5  HPT37x RAID 1 Array SCSI Di
  2       4        14593     255      63  114473.5  ST312002 6A SCSI Disk Devic

Once you know which HDD is which number, then use the following command line (using the appropriate disk #--example below is *2* for the second HDD above that has 4 partitions on it so I know which HDD it is) to wipe the whole HDD which will include the *absolute sector 0*--so the MBR and Partition Table will be zeroed out:

gdisk 2 /diskwipe

Quoting from the Ghost 2003 User Guide:


Quote:

The /diskwipe switch wipes the entire disk, partitions, partition table, MBR, and all used and unused space.

If you installed Ghost 9.x from Norton SystemWorks Premier, you can find *GDisk.exe* on the installation CD here:

X:\SUPPORT\GHOST\GDISK.EXE

If you have the stand along Ghost 9.x CD, I suspect it's in the same sub-directory.

John, I've used Acronis True Image 8 for imaging and restoring. I liked it. Nice GUI and easy to use. I haven't tried True Image 9 as there has been so much bad press in the TI group. It sounded like a pre beta when first released but more recent builds seem to be stable. TI is very hardware dependent and some people just can't get it to work.

There is a BartPE plugin to use if the Recovery disc doesn't work properly. Apparently the recovery disc uses USB 1 drivers so imaging to an external USB HD is slow. I don't know if the drivers have been updated in recent builds.

NightOwl wrote on Feb 13^th, 2006 at 3:41pm:

I think the moment you create a partition, you create a MBR--yup--here's a reference:

Maybe that's why I've had success with imaging in the past. I create partitions similar to the old HD with PM before I restore the image.

My Ghost folders don't contain gdisk. When I get my test computer back (it has a new home) I'd like to try wiping a HD.

NightOwl wrote on Feb 13^th, 2006 at 3:41pm:

"... GDisk.exe is found here on my system: C:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks\Norton Ghost\gdisk.exe..."

I am now running "plain-Vanilla" Norton SystemWorks 2003 on my Dell Dimension 8100, with Norton Ghost 2003 being derived from the spare CD included with a Ghost 9.0 retail kit for pre-XP users.  Therefore, gdisk.exe is found here on my particular system:

C:\Program Files\Symantec\Norton Ghost 2003\gdisk.exe

EP :'(