I have been a longtime radster (although I just signed up today).  It is rare for me to post as I almost always answer my own questions through research, but alas to find this more than likely simple answer is taking to long and I am chickening out.  Please help.

I run a dozen computers at my office.  As I own them I have absolute authority and can pretty much set policy at will.  I have been ghosting to dvd's for years for backup, but generally when problem arises, the ghost I have is old.  I have nightly automated backup of files (task manager + robocopy = divine) of each computer to a robust server, and the idea was even a 2 mos old ghost saved a day of loading software, should something fail.

Well I am tiring even of that.  I want there to be a weekly ghost of everyone’s computer in the middle of the night.  All computers are always left running with all apps closed anyway (company policy :)) and pretty much I'd like it to be they don't even know anything happened as screen saver logs them out anyway.

I figured a batch file run from task manager was simplest way to do this.  Right now I backup across the network, but it appears that may be a bit challenging via batch file (all the network settings to map the drive etc.)  so I am thinking of adding a hard drive to each computer with ghost.exe on it and where the .gho files will reside, only to be "backed up" to the server the next day through another automated task.

Okay, so how do run a dos command that tells windows xp to reboot and run program on a particular partition?  Or is there an easier way to accomplish my end goal?

Thanks!

hi scott. let's see what you have here. have to run out but will be back.

i will move you over to the other forum. more traffic (eyes) there.

why is that the best illusion ever?

we are talking about ghost v2003?

Thanks for the move (and bump).

Why is it the best?  Go to http://www.architectsassociates.net/scottpeach/miscpics/illusion4.jpg and study hard.  My brain is convinced the claim is wrong.  (until I use paint shop to provie myself wrong: http://www.architectsassociates.net/scottpeach/miscpics/illusionproof.jpg .

Yes I am using ghost 2003 (never saw a good reason to use anything else).

Really what I need is some program that can be started/switched on the command line that reboots to dos and initatiates a given batch file.

Peach, you may wish to investigate the use of Symantec Backup Exec System Recovery which is based on the newer "Ghost 10" technology.

okay, i see what you are trying to do.

first, that optical illusion is .. like you say, unbelievable, until you sample the colors (i used photoshop). still hard to believe (my mind says "no way, can't be").

regarding your endeavor, yeah, (like pleo says) ghost 10 is certainly gonna be easier, since that's what's it made to do.

i have no experience w/ ghost 10, but many here do.

but, come to think of it, it sounds like something that shouldn't be very uncommon.

if you drop in a 2nd hard drive into each machine, that removes the network config from the equation, and will make things easier.

i have already shot an email to dan goodall, to see if he has experience in this area, and will do the same the same with nightowl. magoo might also have some insight, or someone who does.

i'm sure someone has been down this road before. we just need to find who.

sounds like something that would go good in the guide.

my batch file page is here:

http://ghost.radified.com/automated_batch.htm

altho this is not my area of expertise. others provided all info.

how's things down in mobile? just saw spike lee's hbo documentary on katrina this eve (1st part). amazing devastation. more this year?

http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2006-08-22T120043Z_01_N18410596_RTRIDST_0_WEATHER-HURRICANES-NIGHTMARE-GENERAL-FEATURE.XML

you are right there:

http://www.infoplease.com/atlas/state/alabama.html

zelda & aidan? happy & healthy?

Pleonasm, I had a look at that website.


Quote:

Dissimilar Hardware Restoration combines hot imaging with the ability to restore to different hardware platforms including different storage controllers and hardware abstraction layers on the fly. Dissimilar hardware restoration reduces recovery times and saves significant hardware investments by eliminating the need to recover systems to the identical hardware platform where recovery points were created.

At $69 it looks better value than Ghost 10. I tried to download a Trialware program but Symantec wanted more personal information than I was prepared to give.

Hmmm, my experience is mostly Linux lately, and I could tell you how to get it done, but you already said they are XP machines...

There are programs that I have used that can shutdown and reboot a computer.  Getting the computer to run a Ghost batch on the way back up is the trickiest part.  I'm not the expert, but I think the batch file itself is doable.

You could use a bootloader, like GRUB, to manage booting the computer from Windows and the Ghost environment.  You would just have to figure out how to pass an option to GRUB.

Ahh, it just came to me.  There is an option in the GRUB conifguration file that sets which option it should boot by default.  You could set up a batch file that runs in Windows to change the GRUB configuration to default to your Ghost boot and then reboot the computer.  On reboot, the computer would boot to the Ghost environment and run your batch file.  Then, you just change the default back and reboot the computer when your Ghost batch is finished, causing the computer to boot back into Windows.

I've left you with a lot of details to fill in, but that should get you started.

Here is one of the shutdown programs:
http://www.drivermagician.com/autoshutdown/

And GRUB:
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/

Unattended ghosting is not something I've had any interest in, so it's not something I've tried before.  First, I concur with the earlier suggestion that this kind of task is probably something Ghost 10 is better suited for--if nothing else, for the likelihood of better error recovery in the event the process fails somewhere.

But if I were to try to do this with Ghost 2003, I would create a small DOS partition and dualboot.  To illustrate:

Partition-1:  boots DOS; autoexec.bat launches Ghost with all command-line parameters to create the image unattended; autoexec.bat ends with a call to "pqboot /p:2" to reboot into partition-2 when Ghost finishes.

Partition-2:  boots XP; add a scheduled task to call "pqboot32 /p:1" at the appointed time, which will reboot into partition-1.

Pqboot/pqboot32 are utilities that come with Partition Magic.  They are command-line programs (DOS and Win32, respectively) that simply change the active partition and reboot--dualbooting with no boot manager required.

You could script Ghost to image onto a local partition for later transfer, or design it to image straight to a network share.  The fancier you get, the more risk there will be of random failures.

One drawback with these multiple reboot schemes is that there really is no graceful error recovery if something hangs up somewhere.  We're all familiar with that as a weak point when Ghost 2003 is installed in Windows and run from there.  OTOH, the dualboot approach is probably more stable than the Windows-Ghost "virtual partition" trickery.


p.s.: re: illusion . . . okay, I'm impressed!

Brian, concerning Reply #5, I believe that you can't purchase less than 10 licenses for Symantec Backup Exec System Recovery Desktop Edition (formerly known as LiveState Recovery), so your cost is $69 x 10 = $690, unfortunately.

Symantec is targeting the product to both the small and medium/large corporate environments (which matches the circumstance of Peach).

Pleonasm, are you sure? You can buy single licenses in Australia.

I did download the trial. I used your name. Well, sort of…

Apparently it won’t work on WinXP Home. The initial GUI resembles Ghost 9 but sub menus are just like Ghost 10 and it uses Ghost 10 terminology. There is no mention of Restore Anywhere in the Help file. I imagine that functionality is on the Recovery CD but I was surprised that there was no documentation.

Overall, it’s almost identical to Ghost 10 without the Files and Folders backup.

MrMagoo wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2006 at 3:11am:

Ahh, it just came to me.  There is an option in the GRUB conifguration file that sets which option it should boot by default.  You could set up a batch file that runs in Windows to change the GRUB configuration to default to your Ghost boot and then reboot the computer.  On reboot, the computer would boot to the Ghost environment and run your batch file.  Then, you just change the default back and reboot the computer when your Ghost batch is finished, causing the computer to boot back into Windows. I've left you with a lot of details to fill in, but that should get you started. Here is one of the shutdown programs: http://www.drivermagician.com/autoshutdown/ And GRUB: http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/

Brilliant.  I like this option, and will work on it (hopefully I'll get some time to day).

Three comments I would be interested in everybodys feedback on:

1) I don't trust windows, nor any software that runs in it to the degree I have confidence in Ghost 2003 (running in DOS).  As much as Ghost 10 sounds like it does and is meant to do what I am looking for, it *seems* from the posts and reviews I have read thus far it is at best almost as reliable as ghost 2003.  Pardon the analogy, that's like trading up a race car for a slower one because it has a bigger engine.  I use ghost for reliability.  

2) Given 1, I wanted to go the route as discussed in this thread, and with GRUB I might be able to, but I am not one for re-inventing the wheel.  If there is another way to do this as reliably I am game.

3) The one gripe I have about Ghost is when I upgrade computers, I am basically sunk.  I used tot upgrade a lot, and I solved this frequent problem by creating a slipstreamed automated windows install.  Does anyone have any experience with the Dissimilar Hardware Restoration feature of Symantecs backup exec?   Although I might not generally back up this way, this has obvious benefits during upgrades.


Quote:

first, that optical illusion is .. like you say, unbelievable, until you sample the colors (i used photoshop). still hard to believe (my mind says "no way, can't be"). regarding your endeavor, yeah, (like pleo says) ghost 10 is certainly gonna be easier, since that's what's it made to do. i have no experience w/ ghost 10, but many here do. but, come to think of it, it sounds like something that shouldn't be very uncommon.   if you drop in a 2nd hard drive into each machine, that removes the network config from the equation, and will make things easier.   i have already shot an email to dan goodall, to see if he has experience in this area, and will do the same the same with nightowl. magoo might also have some insight, or someone who does. i'm sure someone has been down this road before. we just need to find who. sounds like something that would go good in the guide. my batch file page is here: http://ghost.radified.com/automated_batch.htm altho this is not my area of expertise. others provided all info. how's things down in mobile? just saw spike lee's hbo documentary on katrina this eve (1st part). amazing devastation. more this year?   http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=bondsNews&s toryID=2006-08-22T120043Z_01_N18410596_RTRIDST_0_WEATHER-HURRICANES-NIGHTMARE-GENERAL-FEATURE.XML you are right there: http://www.infoplease.com/atlas/state/alabama.html zelda & aidan? happy & healthy?

(about the illusion) yes - my father (generally considered quite intelligent) nearly got to blows with me arguing that it was wrong.  When I toggle the pages, I swear the B spot changes color.  Freaky.  Here's another great illusion - stare at the dot and move your head towards and away from the screen.  I like it because I can envision building a tunnel with the bricks set up like that at the top.  It would freak everyone out driving in the tunnel - The Bricks are moving!! http://architectsassociates.net/scottpeach/miscpics/moving%20rings.jpg

several illusions: http://architectsassociates.net/scottpeach/miscpics/

(about family/kids) We are doing great.  We just bought a new house in a great subdivision with lots of kids and neighborhood facilities like pool, tennis etc.  We are very content here.  My Daughter started school this week, as in started for the first time in her life.  My wife (who stayed at home with her thus far) misses her terribly.  I'm loving that my family is actually moving to a daily schedule similar to mine!

(about Katrina/docs etc.)  I actually don't have my sat up yet so instead of TV I have been playing a lot of Xbox.  I am not a fan of Lee's politics, and given the ilk who was at least promoted during commercials I'd suggest we should be careful to recognize this as using history to provide entertainment, and not an historical account.

To make an analogy: (and for the purposes of it you will have to place yourself in pre xp sp2 days) Imagine someone who has never had their computer crash, never had a virus, never been given spam even.  Ok, so how up are they on ant--spamming software? (none) Do they keep their AV software up to date?  Do they even have it? (probably not) What kind of back up do they have? (none)  Can we say Carrie's notebook from Sex and the City?  Suddenly they're spammed with a virus that crashed their computer and wiped the hard drive.  This person is blaming anyone and everyone for everything.

[rant]Look shit happens. As much as prudent intelligent people tried to prepare, it did not save the wrecking of Pass Christian, Bayou la Batre (Forrest Gump anyone), Biloxi, Gulfport, or Ocean Springs.  For example: do not have a home below the flood plane (which below sea level is obviously well below).  Remove all tall pine trees (the ones most likely to fall and cause damage) from near the home.  Have plywood prepared to cover the windows. Leave when a cat 3 or stronger is potentially going to hit in a less than 40 hours.

Most of those houses (not sure if this is well publicized or not) were built above the flood plane, and most all of those communities did evacuate.  These fairly understood and normal practices cannot be said of New Orleans.

Do I think the overall the people who were in NO the day of the Hurricane are pretty dumb, Yes.  Do I think that's to be expected and the LOCAL government should have been instrumental in preventing that catastrophe.  Yes.  Given the importance of this task, should have the STATE government taken steps to ensure the blind were not leading the blind into certain death. Yes.

Please understand, it is the coastal consensus that NO and Louisiana have the two most corrupt and inept governments of any we know, and that was a common belief before the Hurricane.  How is it that it is just understood and accepted that you can walk down a street (Bourbon obviously) and anything goes as long as you don't hurt someone else doing it, and you walk one block off that street it is just accepted that you will likely be mugged, raped and or killed.

As far as the federal government?  Sure they screwed up, but it is like the computer analogy.  They just never really thought it would happen to them, and even as it was happening it was like, "What, I'm supposed to have predicted this??"

And the answer is yes.  When you have a significant portion of your population, police, and government that is blatantly corrupt, it is fore gone conclusion that should a disaster occur, they won't know their ass from their elbows.  [/rant]

Peach wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2006 at 9:24am:

"... Do I think the overall the people who were in NO the day of the Hurricane are pretty dumb, Yes..."

Many issues pertaining to Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath will never see the "light-of-day" in the MainStreamMedia.  One such issue is the significant number of people in the City of New Orleans (but not necessarily the surrounding communities) who had the means to evacuate and yet still refused to do. Their motive was knowing with absolute certainty that stay-behind looters would have them cleaned out before the storm ever made landfall.  Evacuation was tantamount to a total forfeit of personal possessions even if the storm passed by and left the Big Easy untouched.

EP :'(

Brian, concerning Reply #9, I stand corrected:  you are right – Symantec’s ordering system does now seem to accept a single unit purchase, much to my surprise.  Perhaps my memory is failing me, but I tried to do exactly the same thing a few weeks and every time I entered a quantity of “1” it would automatically be changed to “10”.

Peach, for information on restoring an image to dissimilar hardware, please see this thread.

El_Pescador wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2006 at 9:58am:

Evacuation was tantamount to a total forfeit of personal possessions even if the storm passed by and left the Big Easy untouched. EP :'(

Fair statement.  Their are more perspectives to be listened to.  That was a very civil reponse, and I imagine anyone in that situation would be very pressed.  I'm interested in your experience.

While that fact remains, I ponder the questions Why take residence where there is so little trust in the police and community? and If it is so unsafe that your belongings are in peril, what about your person?

Obviosuly easy to say, but there's elements of logic in these qeustions that are difficult for me to ignore.

When I left for Katrina, I was mentally prepared to come home to a slab to either my house here or my condo in Biloxi.  Mostly we took pictures, computers and my fire safe.  I must say, there wasn't much left in Biloxi.

On a last note, I have been through many huriccanes when I was younger and in my early 20's.  They were VERY unpleasant experiences.  At this point with children, just the experience *cough* torture isn't what I like to subject us.  Should there be looters out there?  All the more reason I'd rather be some where else.

It was wrong to generalize that those who were there the day before were dumb, but I do believe they were ignorant about Hurricanes.  (this is not an insult, we are all ignorant of most everything)

Of course, many wouldn't have perceived them as having any other options.  As a city, this is a case where after the fact is not the time to be thinking of how to respond.  The plans and drills should be well rehearsed and pragmatic.


p.s.  Rad - see why I originally posted in High Rad?  lol

Pleonasm wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2006 at 10:01am:

Peach, for information on restoring an image to dissimilar hardware, please see this thread.

Back on topic! thanks for the thread, although I think it was the wrong link.  I read the htread, and it more or less affirmed my xperience so far with ghost.

I'll research the dissimilar stuff later, though.  Thanks again.

Peach wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2006 at 11:14am:

"... I have been through many huriccanes when I was younger and in my early 20's.  They were VERY unpleasant experiences..."

In my estimation, Saint Bernard Parish and Orleans Parish east of the Inner Harbor Navigation Canal (aka Industrial Canal) were subject to Category 3 hurricane forces which overwhelmed the levees there.  On the contrary, the City of New Orleans west of the Canal suffered much less from the storm itself than from a massive civil-engineering failure.  The deaths and property damage from flooding in the latter area was due not only to the breaching of the 17^th Street and London Avenue Canals, but moreover to the hardly-mentioned fact that several hundred feet on the western bank of the Orleans Avenue Canal was reduced in height from fourteen feet to seven feet in years past and nobody in authority seemed to cognizant of the fact until after City Park became a lake on the 30^th of August, 2005!

EP :'(

glad we've got you some help.

got the little guy today, so i'm busy putting out forrest fires, following him around.

I happened to have on hand a spare laptop and a spare hard disk to fool around with, so here's a follow-up on my "concept" in msg #7 earlier in this thread.  It turned out to be rather trivial to setup.  I did a quick-and-dirty installation of the hard disk as follows:

Partition-1:  4GB, FAT32, booting MS-DOS 7.1; additional files include ghost.exe (from Ghost 2003 CD) and pqboot.exe (from Partition Magic CD); autoexec.bat file shown below.

Partition-2:  4GB, FAT32, booting Windows 2000; additional files include pqboot32.exe (from Partition Magic CD) and reboot.bat; scheduled task added in task scheduler to run reboot.bat at a predetermined time.

Listing of partition-2 reboot.bat file:

pqboot32 /p:1

Listing of partition-1 autoexec.bat file:

del test.gho
ghost -clone,mode=pcreate,src=1:2,dst=c:\test.gho -sure -quiet
pqboot /p:2

Without any user intervention, at the appointed time:

• Windows runs the scheduled task
  
• reboot.bat executes pqboot32 to shut down and reboot into partition-1
  
• partition-1 boots to DOS
  
• Ghost starts up, creates image of partition-2 and stores on partition-1
  
• pqboot shuts down system and reboots back into partition-2
  
• partition-2 boots back into Windows
  

Issues:

• Windows task scheduler can't pass a parameter directly to pqboot32--hence the use of a batch file, reboot.bat, as intermediary
  
• If disk not 'marked', Ghost pauses at the 'disk not marked' screen and waits for user input
  
• del command deletes old image file to avoid Ghost pausing for confirmation to overwrite

Once the issues were resolved, the entire process ran completely unattended at the appointed time.

What makes this easy is the pair of pqboot files.  If you don't have Partition Magic, you'll have to find some other means of switching the active partition and rebooting.

But the concept works.

Dan Goodell

Ah...excellent!

I haven't actually put it together yet myself, but I have been thinking about how to set up an automated backup routine for a non-tech friend--I was planning on having the first step be *manual* in that the person used Pqboot32 from a desktop shortcut to start the process.  But scheduelling so it's totally automated may be a better answer!

Your report shows that what I hoped would work does!

The freeware MBRWizard has both a 32-bit Windows version and a DOS version of its program--perhaps that could be substituted for those who do not have PartitionMagic's *pqboot* programs.  Looking at the command line switches, it has a */shutdown=#*, where # 1 forces an OS shut down, and #2 forces an OS reboot!  Looks like it should work similarly to PartitionMagic's programs.

When I've the time to work on this, I will post the results of my efforts as well--but may be awhile--have to complete several end of summer projects, and have a brief vacation coming soon  ;) !

very slick.

Even for a Ghost 9/10 fan, I have to agree that is slick.

The freeware MBRWizard has both a 32-bit Windows version and a DOS version of its program--perhaps that could be substituted for those who do not have PartitionMagic's *pqboot* programs.

Taking a look at MBRWizard, it looks like it would work.  Going from Win->DOS, it looks like the command-line: mbrwiz /active=0 /shutdown=2 is all you would need.  Going from DOS->Win, you could use the /active=1 switch, but it looks like there's no /shutdown switch in the DOS version??  Very strange!  It only takes about half a dozen bytes in a DOS program to generate a reboot, so I wonder why the programmer didn't put that in?

Oh, well, it's no big deal.  DOS reboot programs are a dime a dozen.  On the DOS side you can just use a combination of MBRWiz with a separate reboot program.

Dan Goodell wrote on Aug 27^th, 2006 at 6:11am:

I happened to have on hand a spare laptop and a spare hard disk to fool around with, so here's a follow-up on my "concept" in msg #7 earlier in this thread.  It turned out to be rather trivial to setup. ... What makes this easy is the pair of pqboot files.  If you don't have Partition Magic, you'll have to find some other means of switching the active partition and rebooting. But the concept works.

This is awesome!  I have licenses of Partition Magic 7 & 8.  I have seen their boot utility but never used it.  Thanks for the help!  I will work on this today, and let you know when it is working.

Very nice, Dan!  I suspect that there will be other uses of this same technique arising in the future.

I’m surprised, though, that “Windows task scheduler can't pass a parameter directly to pqboot32--hence the use of a batch file, reboot.bat, as intermediary”.  I have passed command-line switches to programs invoked by the Windows XP task scheduler without issues.  Is this a problem specifically with the PQBOOT32 utility?

Although it may be too obvious to mention, did you include the command-line switch outside of the quotes containing the program and path?  For example, the task invocation should be:

“C:\Program Files\Partition Magic\pqboot32.exe” /p:1
and not:
“C:\Program Files\Partition Magic\pqboot32.exe /p:1”

Years ago, I used Powerquest Bootmagic, which came with Partition Magic, which I think is the same thing .. to multiboot various flavors of Windows & Linux. Don't recall any problems. It was easier/simpler than I expected. I beleive it walks you thru the creation of a back-up/restore floppy prior to (during) installation.

i included a link to this thread in the guide, on the page which discusses batch files:

http://ghost.radified.com/automated_batch.htm (~1/3rd the way down the page)

so any comments regarding lessons learned on this (cool, elegant) endeavor would be welcome.

Consider:  It ought to be possible, using the same general approach, to boot into a Windows PE partition (rather than DOS) and launch Ghost 8.2 to perform a backup or restore operation on the Windows XP system partition.  The advantages would be improved access to USB and FireWire storage devices, plus network access.

See:

Can I run BartPE from my harddisk where Windows 2000/XP/2003 is already installed?
Windows Preinstallation Enviroment

P.S.:  Although this multi-boot technique is certainly clever, one must remember that it is a solution to a problem that can be avoided more simply through the use of Ghost 10.

By the way, according to this post, PQBOOT32 will only reboot when run as a Windows XP scheduled task if the user is logged in.

Pleonasm wrote:
"I have passed command-line switches to programs invoked by the Windows XP task scheduler without issues.  Is this a problem specifically with the PQBOOT32 utility?"

I did try a few ways, including "c:\pqboot32.exe" /p:2 with quotes, but Task Scheduler still complained, "The task name may not contain the characters <, >,:,/,\, or |."  Substituting a batch file was easy so I didn't spend a lot of time fiddling with Task Scheduler.

"according to this post, PQBOOT32 will only reboot when run as a Windows XP scheduled task if the user is logged in."

Hmm, I found that post interesting, but for a different reason.  Scheduling a task requires setting a password, so I've always assumed that naturally meant you had to be logged in.  But I guess not, even if pqboot32 is an exception.

"one must remember that it is a solution to a problem that can be avoided more simply through the use of Ghost 10."

Agreed.  I mentioned that in reply #7, but it's worth pointing out again.  This 'reboot-to-use-Ghost-2003' technique will reboot at the appointed time, even if you happen to be using the computer at the time.  Scheduling a Ghost 10 task wouldn't pull the rug out from under you like that.

Dan, concerning the problem that “This 'reboot-to-use-Ghost-2003' technique will reboot at the appointed time, even if you happen to be using the computer at the time”, one possible solution is to use the A_TimeIdlePhysical function within AutoHotkey to confirm that the PC has been idle for a specified duration.

For example, a continuously active AutoHotkey function could examine the keyboard/mouse idle time once every X second(s), and set an environmental variable to TRUE if the idle criterion has been achieved and FALSE otherwise. The batch file which is started by the Windows XP Scheduled Tasks facillity could then examine the status of this environmental variable, and only launch PQBOOT32 if the PC is in the desired state.

Well, yes – it’s yet another layer of complexity and another possible fault point for the entire process, but for the person who really wants to do this, this tip might be of assistance.

Concerning Reply #29, there may be an easier solution.  In the Windows XP Scheduled Tasks – under the Settings tab – there is an option “Only start the task if the computer has been idle for at least _____ minutes”.

Pleonasm wrote on Aug 28^th, 2006 at 4:48pm:

Concerning Reply #29, there may be an easier solution.  In the Windows XP Scheduled Tasks – under the Settings tab – there is an option “Only start the task if the computer has been idle for at least _____ minutes”.

Pleonasm wrote on Aug 28^th, 2006 at 4:31pm:

Well, yes – it’s yet another layer of complexity and another possible fault point for the entire process, but for the person who really wants to do this, this tip might be of assistance.

Thank you both.  I will be checking that box.

Dan or others, I ask of you some more help.

I hit some road blocks (not mentioned thus far), bashed through a few of them, but alas I'm now stuck.

Here is my setup:
I have onboard RAID 0 SATA running two 36gb raptor drives.
The paired raptors are partitioned to a 30gb 64 OS (c:) and a 40gb XP OS (D:).  I use and keep open the xp os.

I added a 320gb ide drive as a master to the secondary bus (only drive).  The primary has two DVDRW drives on it.

I partitioned the 320 with a 50mb FAT and installed OpenDos 7.01 on it.  The remainder of the drive is partitioned as NTFS for the backups.

Previously, my computer boots to the question “XP or 64” – I had reduced the time to 4s using a registry edit so it is not a nuisance.

From XP I installed PQ BootMagic (from a Partition Magic 8 disk) – this was before OpenDos was installed.  I noticed on reboots nothing BootMagic was not loading.  It turns out it also installed itself on the FAT drive and only loaded the menu when I booted to that drive.

When I rebooted and installed the OpenDOS to the FAT partition, BootMagic picked it right up, and it appears to work fine, i.e. if I boot to the IDE drive, the BM menu comes up and if the DOS OS is selected goes to it fine.  However, the two entries to for the XP and 64 OS do not work.  The only way to boot back to my XP OS is redfine the boot order back to the SATA drives.

Why doesn’t the BM work?  Was the installation location of BM on the FAT the correct one, or is that the problem?

In proofreading this I came up with the idea that the OpenDOS screwed up the BM when it installed over it on that partition.  I am going to test that theory now and reload BootMagic.

Oh Yeah, Forgot the most important problem...
All of the above is still the case, but in addition to this, now, when I reboot to XP I Can't see the H Drive!

This would not be the end of the world if it were running fine, because it will simply be there to boot and ghost my OS drives.  In fact given the instructions to do so will be written into the autoexec.bat files, this will nearly have to be an exclusive purpose.  (note I will provide a time sensitive opt out with that bat file).

Anyhow, Im am really stuck right now as PQ BM will not reinstall because it cannot find it's orginial install location.

I am suspecting the solution lies somewheren in the diskmanagment, as when recovering from the stumbling block of setting up the drive as dynamic, I seem to remember something about hiding or not hiding other OS's from xp.  We'll see and post.

Any contributing thoughts and help is welcome.

Aggg.  I haven't figure this one out yet.  A picture is worth a thousand words so here is a screen shot of my disk managment: http://architectsassociates.net/scottpeach/pictures/disk_manag_peach_8-29-06.jpg.

Until I can see H, I am dead in the water, and I really am at a loss as to how to fix H short of reformat, star over.  WTH?

Peach, I don’t have a solution to offer for your current difficulty.  I do recommend, however, that you step back and look at the bigger picture.  How much is your time worth?  Wouldn’t it really be better to use a tool that is designed for the task at hand than trying to build one with ‘duct tape & twine’?

Have you considered the use of Symantec Ghost Solution Suite or the newer Symantec Backup Exec set of products?

Best wishes for whatever path you choose.

P.S.:  The fact that it is possible to use a screwdriver to pound a nail into a board doesn’t mean that it is a wise alternative to using a hammer.  ;)

You didn't indicate which is supposed to be your 'H' partition.  Judging from your screenshot, I'll guess it's the one labeled 'BU_DOS'.  The first step in diagnosis would be to examine the partition table of the second disk in ptedit32.  My guess is the partition has been marked "hidden".

"Why doesn’t the BM work?  Was the installation location of BM on the FAT the correct one, or is that the problem?"

Yes, that's a problem.  BootMagic is just not a very good boot manager.  Last time I checked, BM could only be installed in a FAT/FAT32 partition.  BU_DOS is the only qualifying partition in your system, so that's where it installed itself.

I'm not clear what you're trying to do with BM, anyway.  If you're trying to build an unattended reboot scheme like I was talking about in reply #17, no boot manager is required.

Furthermore, the method I outlined will not work in your setup because the DOS partition must be on the primary boot disk.  The two pqboot files work by switching the 'active' partition on the primary boot disk, but what you're expecting to do is also switch the boot disk.  That's a whole different can of worms.

I agree with Pleo here.  You're spending a lot of time trying to come up with a bandaid solution when there are more appropriate versions of Ghost for the task you want to perform.

Out of my league at this point. Kudos for troubleshooting determination. Admirable. You seem close. I *do* enjoy troubleshooting, tho. Gets my brain crankin'.

On a tangential note, can someone (Pleo?) confirm that Ghost Solution suite is based on the original Ghost software (originally developed by Binary Research), whilst Symantec Basckup Exec is based on Drive Image, originally developed by Powerquest? True/Flase?

I've used the trial version of Symantec Backup Exec and it's like a combination of Ghost 9 and 10. So it is derived from the PowerQuest software.

Peach

Read your replies 32, 33, and 34!

I then went back to your original post!

You're proving to be a *moving target*--Dan gave you a very good suggestion--and actually set up a test system as a *proof of concept*--and reported back with a good summary.

I have re-read that outline and I just don't see installing and attempting to use PartitionMagic's BootMagic boot loader as part of the solution he suggested.

If you want to boot from a different HDD, and that depends on the BIOS boot order being altered--you're going to have to find a boot loader that can run a script--and has the ability to adjust the BIOS as well--I have not run across anything like that--but may exist somewhere!

I suggest you keep the BIOS set to boot from you Disk1, use PM to shrink your D:\ partition by about at least 20 MB, and then shrink the Extended Partition around it, create a primary partition with the new unallocated space, and then follow Dan's outline, and you're done--problem(s) solved!

Dan Goodell wrote on Aug 29^th, 2006 at 3:55pm:

…If you're trying to build an unattended reboot scheme like I was talking about in reply #17, no boot manager is required. Furthermore, the method I outlined will not work in your setup because the DOS partition must be on the primary boot disk.  The two pqboot files work by switching the 'active' partition on the primary boot disk, but what you're expecting to do is also switch the boot disk.  That's a whole different can of worms. I agree with Pleo here.  You're spending a lot of time trying to come up with a bandaid solution when there are more appropriate versions of Ghost for the task you want to perform.

Dan, seriously – thanks for all the helpful posts.  I do believe my understanding of this whole process is full circle now, and that in of itself is worth going through the effort (on my end anyway).

I am not interested in a Band-Aid.  I don’t believe that is a fair analogy, though, as it implies a temporary solution with an inferior end result.  Should I get this working, albeit a lot more work than Ghost 10, I believe it would be more secure and therefore a superior end result: a bulletproof auto backup that I implicitly trusted.  

I did however go get Ghost 10 yesterday, installed it and ran it.  It was incredibly easy and intuitive to use in every way that I saw.  Its Achilles heel though is it runs from and during Windows, and in that respect I didn't *trust* it like I do 2003.  Trust is earned, and 2003 has my trust.  To date anything that runs from Windows has only earned distrust.  I am very interested in feedback on this – how *reliable* is the image by Ghost 10?  In my speed reading of Ghost 10 comments/posts/guides/review etc. I gathered it was fairly good, but *not* as reliable as 2003.  Is that fair? or can I take these images to the bank?

NightOwl wrote on Aug 29^th, 2006 at 11:31pm:

Peach Read your replies 32, 33, and 34! I then went back to your original post! You're proving to be a *moving target*--Dan gave you a very good suggestion--and actually set up a test system as a *proof of concept*--and reported back with a good summary. I have re-read that outline and I just don't see installing and attempting to use PartitionMagic's BootMagic boot loader as part of the solution he suggested. If you want to boot from a different HDD, and that depends on the BIOS boot order being altered--you're going to have to find a boot loader that can run a script--and has the ability to adjust the BIOS as well--I have not run across anything like that--but may exist somewhere! I suggest you keep the BIOS set to boot from you Disk1, use PM to shrink your D:\ partition by about at least 20 MB, and then shrink the Extended Partition around it, create a primary partition with the new unallocated space, and then follow Dan's outline, and you're done--problem(s) solved!

NightOwl, it is not my intent to *appear* to be a moving target - nor would I agree that I am.  I believe I clearly stated in reply #10 that I wasn't out to reinvent the wheel, and that if there was an easier way I was game.  The Ghost 10 is clearly that wheel, and when that was made clear I reconsidered.  I got it yesterday, installed and used it

I agree that Dan's solution was very good - I believe my response was that it was "excellent" and that I would go for it.

As far as you "just don't see installing and attempting to use PartitionMagic's BootMagic boot loader as part of the solution he suggested." Well pqboot.exe is clearly part of his required files for the c:\ partition and the file comes from the Partition Magic CD  - Dan said as much.

I had not realized that pqboot or any boot loader for that matter could not boot to other drives, only other partitions.  Dan pointed this out reply #36, and when he did, it all became very clear what was happening and why.

If I was to pursue this method of auto backup, your suggestion about putting a partition at the end of the d:\ sounds good except I think the order of a multi boot on the same hard disk must go in the order of DOS - 98 - XP, and that dos must be at the front of the drive.  This was the case in Dan’s example.  I believe the only way would be to start from scratch with DOS up front and XP in back like his was.  Then it (clearly) would work.  

Peach

Ghost 10 is very reliable--for most folks--most of the time--just as Ghost 2003 is--for most folks--most of the time!

You won't know if you can *take it to the bank* until you have tried it on each system, made sure there are no *internal* conflicting software/hardware issues--and you actually do a test run of your backup routine--i.e. storing your images on your server, and then doing a restore to confirm all has gone as it *should*!

NightOwl wrote on Aug 30^th, 2006 at 9:45am:

...do a test run of your backup routine-i.e. storing your images on your server, and then doing a restore to confirm all has gone as it *should*!

Yes.  A test run is the only sure test, but what if it ruins the working system during the test?

I only got it yesterday late afternoon and had time to just run one backup.  I certainly will play with it more.  Who knows, maybe I will be its biggest fan.

Thanks to all who helped (pleo, dan, NOwl, rad)

Peach

I think we are talking *apples and oranges*--I don't think you are understanding what Dan outlined based on your responses.


Quote:

Well pqboot.exe is clearly part of his required files for the c:\ partition and the file comes from the Partition Magic CD

Yes--but *pqboot.exe* is not *BootMagic*!

*pqboot.exe*, *pqbootx.exe* are DOS command line programs that will switch which primary partition is active on the boot HDD and hide the previous active partition while booted to the now active partition.  *pqboot32.exe* is the Windows version of those two DOS command line programs to do a similar action while within Windows.

*BootMagic* is a boot loader that allows for multi-OS booting without using the *Microsoft* way of multi-booting--and without having to *start over* so that the older OS is installed first, and then the newer Windows version(s) installed next so that you get a *multi-boot* menu to choose from and the critical files are not overwritten by the older OS that is not *multi-boot aware*.  (By the way, I think the MS multi-booting method only became available *recently*--maybe Win2k was the first!?  And I don't think the MS multi-boot method will add an option to boot to DOS as an OS option--I think it only adds Windows OS's to the boot menu.)


Quote:

If I was to pursue this method of auto backup, your suggestion about putting a partition at the end of the d:\ sounds good except I think the order of a multi boot on the same hard disk must go in the order of DOS - 98 - XP, and that dos must be at the front of the drive.

As mentioned above, the order is important only if you are setting things up the MS way of multi-booting.

I could be wrong about where the DOS partition *needs to be*--but I think that requirement was back when the Master Boot Record boot code could not use LBA addressing for large HDD's--and I think that was pre-Win95b fdisk and older.  Easy solution, if it's a problem--use PM to shrink C:\ at the beginning of the partition to create new unallocated space there--create the primary DOS partition there, and populate it with the needed *config.sys* and *autoexec.bat*.

Using *pqboot* will then *hide* your Windows primary partition, make active the DOS primary partition--it becomes C:\ now--and the Windows partition will not be *seen* in DOS, but Ghost 2003 is able to *see* hidden partitions in it's interface--and it also can be NTFS and Ghost 2003 will still *see* it.  When done using the DOS active partition, *pqboot* will then *hide* the DOS primary partition, make active the Windows primary partition, and Windows will boot as usual.

Multi-booting--yes--but not the MS way--or *BootMagic* way either!

Dan has a very good website about multi-booting if you really want to understand what's going on:  Understanding MultiBooting and Booting Windows from an Extended Partition

Peach


Quote:

what if it ruins the working system during the test?

Well, testing should not be done on a system that is *mission critical*--once you know the routine works, before you *go live* with the system--then place it *in service*!

You said you have been using Ghost 2003 for some time, and you were looking for a *new* way to create backups--I would assume you can use the same backup routine with Ghost that you have used in the past to create a backup image of the system HDD that can simply be restored if your testing efforts do not go as planned.

Peach, couldn’t have said it better than NightOwl:  ”Ghost 10 is very reliable--for most folks--most of the time--just as Ghost 2003 is--for most folks--most of the time!”

To help alleviate your concern that the “Achilles heel [of Ghost 10] though is it runs from and during Windows,” you may wish to review this thread.  I certainly agree with your perspective that “trust is earned,” and in the early days of Drive Image 7/Ghost 9, there was some natural human apprehension about the technology.  I think the world has moved beyond that conversation, and those days are well behind us.  Today, Ghost 9/Ghost 10 has earned a reputation as a stable, reliable and robust solution.  It seems to me, at least, that this issue has faded into the pages of history.

Pleonasm wrote on Aug 30^th, 2006 at 12:51pm:

Peach, couldn’t have said it better than NightOwl:  ”Ghost 10 is very reliable--for most folks--most of the time--just as Ghost 2003 is--for most folks--most of the time!”

It was an interesting point.  I realize that there are occasions where 2003 let someone down, and that nothing is bullet proof, and, it was on point for comparing the reliability - that they compare evenly.


Quote:

To help alleviate your concern that the “Achilles heel [of Ghost 10] though is it runs from and during Windows,” you may wish to review this thread.  I certainly agree with your perspective that “trust is earned,” and in the early days of Drive Image 7/Ghost 9, there was some natural human apprehension about the technology.  I think the world has moved beyond that conversation, and those days are well behind us.  Today, Ghost 9/Ghost 10 has earned a reputation as a stable, reliable and robust solution.  It seems to me, at least, that this issue has faded into the pages of history.

That does help a lot.  I have some more time today, and expect to do some test runs (of 10).  Thanks again everyone.

Thanks for helping my friend.

Interesting thread.

Peach, what solution did you choose to implement?  What did you learn that you can share with the forum community?