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Rad Community Technical Discussion Boards (Computer Hardware + PC Software) >> Norton Ghost 2003,  Ghost v8.x + Ghost Solution Suite (GSS) Discussion Board >> Multiple Backups on same HDD
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Message started by Evereti on Oct 30th, 2006 at 10:17pm

Title: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Oct 30th, 2006 at 10:17pm
Hi
I am a big fan/user of Ghost 2003 using internal and external (Iomega USB) Cd and DVD burners.....all excellent, no problems.  Saved my life twice now....!

Is it possible to create a series of backups on one HDD......father, grandfather, you know...!  Delete the oldest after a new one etc. AND still use the drive for other stuff :P


I tried this once with a USB external enclosure, managed one backup but Ghost would not use the drive once other stuff was on there.  Is this just a function of the dodgy USB bridge and it will be OK if I have a totally internal HDD??

Thanks

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Oct 30th, 2006 at 10:32pm

Evereti wrote on Oct 30th, 2006 at 10:17pm:
"... Is it possible to create a series of backups on one HDD..."

My preferred approach is to have both an internal physical (as opposed to logical) MASTER HDD and an internal physical SLAVE HDD - PLUS an external HDD of some sort.  I employ a fixed set of alternating titles (such as odd/even, hot/cold, black/white, positive/negative) in maintaining constantly-progressing "disk-to-image" legacy Norton Ghost Backup images.  As a failsafe measure, I use Norton Utilities WipeInfo to obliterate the trailing *.ghs segments beforehand because misdated segments with like names have survived the overwriting process on occasion.  

As time has gone by, I have become increasingly dubious about using optical drives for system backup purposes.

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Oct 30th, 2006 at 10:45pm
Hi EP

Understand your preference for magnetic rather than optical but I seem to have been OK so far, its just that my systems are getting a wee bit big for lots of disks, hence my question about multiple copies and sharing with other apps on one "slave" internal hdd.

Cheers ;D
Ian

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Pleonasm on Oct 31st, 2006 at 8:52am
Evereti, it is not an “either/or” situation.  You could, for example, choose to keep a set of backup images on an internal hard disk drive, and also choose to burn all (or some) of them to DVD discs.

That is basically the approach I have adopted.  I use Ghost 10 to automatically maintain the most recent set of six weekly independent recovery points (aka “images”) on an internal slave hard disk drive, but about every two weeks I burn a recovery point to DVD media (using RecordNow) which I then retain for about six months.  In this way, a good history of the PC is maintained.  You ought to be able to do the same with Ghost 2003, if you wish, although with more manual effort.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Oct 31st, 2006 at 6:52pm

Hi Pleo

Thanks for that, do you have other files on the slave drive? ie will Ghost 10 share a drive?  If I had a large (320gb) slave, it would seem a shame to only use it for Ghost.... >:(

Cheers
Evereti

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Pleonasm on Nov 1st, 2006 at 9:56am
Evereti, yes – Ghost 10 will happily “share” a drive.  As a default storage location, I use “G:\Ghost” where “G” is the secondary (slave) hard disk drive.  I use the same drive to also hold other non-Ghost files, too.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 1st, 2006 at 2:12pm
Thanks Pleonasm

I'll give it a try with NG2003.

My next challenge will be to backup to the same slave drive from my other 2 PCs on my wee network.

Even if I had BartPE, I suspect that NG 2003 will not work as it drops to DOS and would lose sight of the network...??  Might have to go to windows Ghost....

Cheers

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 1st, 2006 at 2:33pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 1st, 2006 at 2:12pm:
"... Even if I had BartPE, I suspect that NG 2003 will not work as it drops to DOS and would lose sight of the network..."

Compile a BartPE with Norton Ghost Ver 8.2; for all practical purpose, it is Norton Ghost 2003 that runs in a Windows Preinstalled Environment but independent of DOS.  All necessary drivers are incorporated during initial construction from what I gather.

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Pleonasm on Nov 1st, 2006 at 2:44pm
Evereti, the following threads will help you with the network issue:
  http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1120798529  
  http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1136760727

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 2nd, 2006 at 6:19pm
Thanks lads

Now I wait for Santa for an extra disk, maybe Ghost 10 and I will get into the networking side. :o

It appears that Ghost 10 has gone some way to making the "non-corp" version back-up across LAN but with some wrinkles.....but then we all have them.  Maybe Ghost 11.0 will come out and be really easy for not so techo like me. :P

As an aside, I have found that the ultimate get out of jail combo is a Ghost 2003 boot floppy and my Iomega USB CD RW.  I once had a HDD fail, and the Ghost boot CD would not recognise the internal CD RW, but somehow the Iomega got connected even though it had never been plugged into this m/c before. Ain't technology wonderful.

PS. If Brian reads this...hello to Lennox Heads from Noosa. ;D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Brian on Nov 2nd, 2006 at 6:57pm
Evereti,

Hi. You live in a beautiful part of Australia too.

Ask Santa to get you Ghost 9. You can create images across a network. Even a wireless network. The big advantage of Ghost 9 over Ghost 10 and S & R (Ghost 11) is that you can create a plugin to use in ReatogoXPE. This allows WinXP type networking which is a vast improvement over Symantec networking. You can't do wireless networking from the ReatogoXPE CD.  WPA is not supported but I've heard WEP does work. I'm set up for WPA2 so I didn't bother trying WEP. Wired networking is easy from ReatogoXPE.

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1119240262

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1119240262;start=114#114

You would only use the ReatogoXPE CD for restoring across a network but it does work for image creation too.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 3rd, 2006 at 1:37am

Hi Brian

I have made a BartPE CD, no troubles.  Haven't got into ReatogoXPE yet......Are they different, do they work together?

Cheers ???

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Brian on Nov 3rd, 2006 at 1:45am

Evereti wrote on Nov 3rd, 2006 at 1:37am:
I have made a BartPE CD, no troubles.  

Then you will have no trouble making a ReatogoXPE CD.

ReatogoXPE is based on BartPE but it contains the XPE plugin which makes it look like WinXP. After using ReatogoXPE, you wouldn't go back.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 3rd, 2006 at 1:50am

Thanks Brian

Downloading the exe now.

Cheers ;)

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Brian on Nov 3rd, 2006 at 2:07am
You should be able to just copy your completed plugins from BartPE to the ReatogoXPE 'Plugin' folder.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 4th, 2006 at 12:57pm
Hi Guys

Two probs.

Reatogo >:(

Installed, did the checklist, cut a CD, fired it up (really slow), and get Internet but no network.  Workgroup Name is set to NONE.  Went into Reatogo builder and see Bootprofiles has Workgroup as NONE, change to MSHOME and save.  Run through settings and it still picks up NONE and undoes my change.

I'm stuck on this one...... ???

Ghost 2003

I have a generic USB caddy with a preloved Fujitsu hard drive in it. Works great for files, Pics, Music, but will Ghost 2003 put an image on there?.....no way.
It seems to find the drive identity OK and assigns "E" then sits and flashes for a while, and then bombs out with "Can't find a device withh that address..etc etc". I have tried it from Windows and from Standard Boot Disk. What is the secret to USB HDD, or is just my dodgy old caddy and drive that Ghost doesn't like.

Cheers :-[

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 4th, 2006 at 5:44pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 4th, 2006 at 12:57pm:
"... Ghost 2003:  I have a generic USB caddy with a preloved Fujitsu hard drive in it... It seems to find the drive identity OK and assigns "E" then sits and flashes for a while, and then bombs out with "Can't find a device withh that address..etc etc". I have tried it from Windows...

I strongly suspect your USB caddy HDD setup is incompatible with the stock Norton/Iomega USB drivers of Norton Ghost 2003.  CLICK HERE to view using Night Owl's Panasonic Universal USB Driver routine adapted to booting Norton Ghost 2003 from the Windows XP GUI (for booting Ghost 2003 from floppies, click on the URL at the start of the initial post).

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 4th, 2006 at 7:10pm

Hi El P

Good plan...fell at second fence.

Downloaded and found necessary files, but could not pick MS-DOS.  Tried "Get MS-DOS files", asked me to have a win 95 or 98 formatted disk in drive A..............don't have any of those around any more.

Where would I find the necessary MSDOS files for Ghost to pick?

Thanks ;D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 4th, 2006 at 7:17pm

Forget last message....dug around and found an ancient win 98SE start up disk which seems to have done the trick....now back to the project....
Cheers

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 4th, 2006 at 7:29pm
OOPS

Me again....thought I had sorted it....buut the MSDOS files from the win98boot disk  made it boot into win 98....funny that....thought I'd seen the last of that boot screen.

So I guess I will remove them and still need to find the correct MSDOS files from somewhere.

Cheers  :-[

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Brian on Nov 4th, 2006 at 10:56pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 4th, 2006 at 12:57pm:
Reatogo
Installed, did the checklist, cut a CD, fired it up (really slow), and get Internet but no network.  Workgroup Name is set to NONE.  

Same here. When you run "Configure my Defaults" it should pick up your Workgroup Name, but it doesn't. I've written to the Reatogo Forum.

Normal startup time for the CD is 4 to 5 minutes.

I ran the "Set up a Home & Office Network" wizard and there were several errors and a "Can't complete.." at the end but my Workgroup name was then present. You can browse your network computers but you can't connect to a computer or Map a Network drive unless you have run winpe-xpsp2-fix.reg on the destination computer. This is in the AUTOHELP folder.

Naturally you would have to run the wizard each time you used the CD. But the Workgroup was created correctly on previous Reatogo versions so we should be able to sort it out.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 5th, 2006 at 12:33am

Thanks Brian

Looking forward to a fix.

PS.  I still use NG2k3 and have been struggling with getting the NIghtOwl floppy together.  Are you aware of how Ghost 9.0 handles USB Hard Drives?  Is it any better than 2003??

Cheers ;D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Brian on Nov 5th, 2006 at 1:13am
Ghost 9 has no problems with USB hard drives.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 5th, 2006 at 1:11pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 4th, 2006 at 7:29pm:
"... OOPS..."

As I recall, you need only to contribute the MS-DOS files from the WIN 98SE diskette to your Norton Ghost 2003 setup one time and it is captured for all future operations - but it is a good idea to specify such in the Options dropdown while in Windows.  And yes, you will see the WIN 98SE Splash screen leading up to Ghost operations.

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Brian on Nov 5th, 2006 at 2:44pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 5th, 2006 at 12:33am:
Looking forward to a fix.


http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=18815

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by NightOwl on Nov 5th, 2006 at 7:42pm
Evereti


Quote:
Is it possible to create a series of backups on one HDD......father, grandfather, you know...!  Delete the oldest after a new one etc. AND still use the drive for other stuff

I do this all the time!  My second HDD is partitioned first as an extended partition for the whole drive, then the first *logical drive* is my *Swap* file partition, the second partition is for all the Windows *Temp* files, and the third partition is my *Bkup* partition where I place my Ghost image files.  

I use a new sub-directory for each new image--using a two digit month and day for the sub-directory name--so today would be *1105*--and then the Ghost file name is also that same two digit month and day.  

But, I have also place Utility programs in their own sub-directories (if it's a DOS accessible file system--i.e. FAT32) such as PartitionMagic, MasterBoot Wizard, etc., so I can access those if I need to in an emergency.

I delete the whole sub-directory when an image file is outdated to make room for the next most recent Ghost image.  Have never had a problem.


Quote:
I tried this once with a USB external enclosure, managed one backup but Ghost would not use the drive once other stuff was on there.

I've done the same with an external USB HDD as I have done above for my second internal HDD--again no problems with multiple uses and files of different flavors sharing with the Ghost sub-directories!


Quote:
buut the MSDOS files from the win98boot disk  made it boot into win 98....

When using the MS-DOS boot files from the Win98se boot disk on a floppy drive--it says *Loading Win98...* when it first reads the floppy disk, but it is just booting to the DOS A:\ prompt--or it will start Ghost in DOS if it's the Ghost boot disk--you don't really get Win98 loaded up!

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 5th, 2006 at 9:02pm
Hi Brian

Redid a CD with the workgroup specified in the .ini and Reatogo now looks for the correct name but still doesn.t find my networked PCs.
Old BartPE CD can find other PCs on network OK.

Also, "Network connections" never shows anything, and browser is really reallly slow, and goes into "not responding" ans task manager can't kill it.  Tried running network wizard and it just never appeared.

Maybe I missed something when I went through autohelp...on the networking plugin area??

Ghost 9.0 is coming via snail mail courtesy ebay.

Cheers ???

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 5th, 2006 at 9:06pm

Hi Nightowl

The MSDOS files from the 98SE startup disk cause PC to display 98SE flash screen and sticks right there, never goes on to Ghost.

My father in law has a 98SE machine so I will format a floppy with the system files on that and then feed that to NG2k3 and see how we go from there.

Cheers :P

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Brian on Nov 5th, 2006 at 9:18pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 5th, 2006 at 9:02pm:
Redid a CD with the workgroup specified in the .ini and Reatogo now looks for the correct name but still doesn.t find my networked PCs.
Also, "Network connections" never shows anything,

Ghost 9.0 is coming via snail mail courtesy ebay.

Did you run "Create Driver plugins" during the build and get drivers for your NIC? Can you see the NIC in Device Manager? Did you run winpe-xpsp2-fix.reg on the destination computers. Without this fix you can see your other computers but you can't browse them.

I was using My Network Places\Entire Network\Microsoft Windows Network\"My Workgroup"

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Brian on Nov 5th, 2006 at 9:55pm
Evereti,

In case you missed this, :\REATOGO-240\plugin\AUTOHELP is the folder to open and run autoHelp.exe.

"Everything" can be accessed from this file.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 5th, 2006 at 10:27pm
Hi Brian

I think I detected NICs but did not click create....done that now and cut new CD...will test later.

Is Reatogo machine specific?  ie if I take this CD and plug it into another PC will it have NIC problems?  

Also how do I run through the plugin picking routine again, I think I picked "Manual Network Services Start" or something like that and might want to unpick it.

Cheers

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Brian on Nov 5th, 2006 at 10:47pm

Quote:
Is Reatogo machine specific?  ie if I take this CD and plug it into another PC will it have NIC problems?  

It should work in all but very old computers. I have a P3 450. Reatogo 235 boots but 240 doesn't. You can "harvest" NIC driver plugins from other computers and put them in :\REATOGO-240\plugin\DRIVERS_AutoHelp. I used to do it with 235 but haven't thought how to do it with 240 yet.

Did you get the Net Driver Pack plugin? This should cover all NIC driver issues and you shouldn't have to manually harvest drivers. It should have covered your earlier situation .


Quote:
think I picked "Manual Network Services Start" or something like that and might want to unpick it.

I can't recall that one. Redo the whole setup from scratch if you are concerned.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Brian on Nov 5th, 2006 at 11:01pm
To harvest drivers, use this folder. :\REATOGO-240\plugin\AUTOHELP\Files\autoDriver

Copy the folder onto a flash drive (or floppy) and run autoDriver.exe while plugged into your target computer.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 6th, 2006 at 4:28am
Hi Nightowl

I am going crosseyed trying to make this work.  It seemed to be stopping on the 98SE flash screen, but a quick esc key uncovered that it was just stuck before it got to Ghost.

I used F8 to get it to step through each stage and eventually discovered that it was the HIMEM.SYS that was stopping it.  I used any old HIMEM.SYS that I found lying around my XP system....do I need a special HIMEM?

Anyway, I removed this file and statement and tried again, went a bit further and looked for USB devices, then complained about lack of High Memory..use low instead, I think it said........then it fired up Ghost but stuck on blank gray panel with nothing but a pointer, and locked......big red switch needed to get system back.

Any ideas?
Cheers
Evereti ;D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by NightOwl on Nov 6th, 2006 at 9:34am
Evereti


Quote:
Anyway, I removed this file and statement and tried again, went a bit further and looked for USB devices, then complained about lack of High Memory..use low instead, I think it said........then it fired up Ghost but stuck on blank gray panel with nothing but a pointer, and locked......

Might post your list of boot files, and a copy of [autoexec.bat] and [config.sys] so we can see what's going on.

What command line is causing the above error message to occur?

But, I suspect the problem is elsewhere.  

Does this happen only when you are trying to hook up your USB HDD with the enclosure you mentioned earlier?

Does everything boot fine with the same files when the USB HDD is not connected?


Quote:
I used any old HIMEM.SYS that I found lying around my XP system....do I need a special HIMEM?

There appears to be more than one *himem.sys* version available!

If you have the installation Ghost 2003 CD, I found it in this *cab* file:  *X:\Install\Data.Cab*.  The file name is:  *F784_HIMEM.SYS.A0EE8843_6A6D_4EAE_931B_F412EEDDF228*.  Extract it and rename to *himem.sys* and it should be good to go!

If you have Ghost 2003 installed, *himem.sys* that is referenced above is found here:  *C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Symantec\Ghost\Template\common*

And if you have a Win98 emergency boot disk, a different version is available from the floppy disk!

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 6th, 2006 at 3:45pm
Hi Nightowl

My Ghost seems to be in a different folder to the one you suggest (c:\Program Files\Symantec\Norton Ghost) so I have put these required files in there.
Anyway, I found the HIMEM on the Ghost CD ;D, and copied it into the Ghost user files option.
Now when I run Ghost it zips through starts Ghost but sticks on the blank grey Ghost screen.  If I use F8 and step through I get the following:

All command work OK (inc HIMEM),

Panasonic drivers load and search for USB devices, then

ASPI driver ver 2.0
ID 0 = HD ..  Fujitsu MPG3204AT E
#1 : LOGICAL  0mb Drive = D

Then later

IOMEGA GUEST DRIVER v8.5
Finding a drive letter
No drive letter added.

Then mouse etc instals

then

CD \GHOST
GHWRAP.EXE

Previous operation failed returning to windows etc etc etc. >:(

------------

As for Boot files, autoexec.bat, and config.sys.  These are places a not so techo like me never goes...in fact my system seems to be doing a good job of hiding them...even if I ask to view hidden and system files.......???

My dumb question for the day...if I have em where do I find em.

Cheers ???

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 6th, 2006 at 4:49pm
Me again Nightowl.

Might have answered my own dumb question.  had a serious word with XP and it finally showed me the files.
I found the Symantec common folder and moved the files into there but the result was exactly the same.

In root of C, I found a boot file:
--------------------------
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
------------------------

Also found Autoexec.bat and Config.sys which both have zero bytes and appear empty??

Also found a Autoexec (NT File) in System32:

----------------------------
@echo off

REM AUTOEXEC.BAT is not used to initialize the MS-DOS environment.
REM AUTOEXEC.NT is used to initialize the MS-DOS environment unless a
REM different startup file is specified in an application's PIF.

REM Install CD ROM extensions
lh %SystemRoot%\system32\mscdexnt.exe

REM Install network redirector (load before dosx.exe)
lh %SystemRoot%\system32\redir

REM Install DPMI support
lh %SystemRoot%\system32\dosx

REM The following line enables Sound Blaster 2.0 support on NTVDM.
REM The command for setting the BLASTER environment is as follows:
REM    SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 P330
REM    where:
REM        A    specifies the sound blaster's base I/O port
REM        I    specifies the interrupt request line
REM        D    specifies the 8-bit DMA channel
REM        P    specifies the MPU-401 base I/O port
REM        T    specifies the type of sound blaster card
REM                 1 - Sound Blaster 1.5
REM                 2 - Sound Blaster Pro I
REM                 3 - Sound Blaster 2.0
REM                 4 - Sound Blaster Pro II
REM                 6 - SOund Blaster 16/AWE 32/32/64
REM
REM    The default value is A220 I5 D1 T3 and P330.  If any of the switches is
REM    left unspecified, the default value will be used. (NOTE, since all the
REM    ports are virtualized, the information provided here does not have to
REM    match the real hardware setting.)  NTVDM supports Sound Blaster 2.0 only.
REM    The T switch must be set to 3, if specified.
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 P330 T3

REM To disable the sound blaster 2.0 support on NTVDM, specify an invalid
REM SB base I/O port address.  For example:
REM    SET BLASTER=A0

------------------------------------------

Cheers :-[

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 6th, 2006 at 6:04pm
Hi Nightowl

Me Again again

I had a thought.....maybe the drivers don't like PCI USB Controllers. :o :o

Plugged USB HDD into native 1.1 port and removed the /E from the usbaspi command, and bingo Ghost fires up and starts to write the image. ;D

Only problem is that its really slow, estimated it would take almost two hours to write 7.7gb, so killed process, it would be quicker to DVD.

As only one of my PCs has native USB 2.0, I think I cannot use this process, and should stick to DVDs, or wait for my copy of Ghost 9.0 to arrive and see how it handles PCI controllers.

That's it for now.  Off to the Pub to watch the Melbourne Cup...a big horse race which stops Australia for a couple of hours...first Tuesday in November every year.....only time I have a wee bet...

Cheers ;D



Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by NightOwl on Nov 6th, 2006 at 10:10pm
Evereti

Hope your favorite horse won!

Back in your post #35, you state that you are loading the Panasonic USB DOS driver:


Quote:
Panasonic drivers load and search for USB devices,

and then you say:


Quote:
IOMEGA GUEST DRIVER v8.5

Something's not *right*--there should be *No* Iomega *Guest* driver loading when using the Panasonic USB DOS driver--those will be two conflicting DOS USB drivers.

And then you state:


Quote:
CD \GHOST
GHWRAP.EXE

I have no idea what boot disk you are using--this certainly is not the boot disk I outlined here:  A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!, for the Panasonic DOS USB driver!


Quote:
As for Boot files, autoexec.bat, and config.sys.  These are places a not so techo like me never goes...

...if I have em where do I find em.

The *autoexec.bat* and *config.sys* files you found were the ones in the main root directory (C:\) of your main HDD--the ones you need to post here are the ones on the boot floppy that you are using to boot your system to DOS.

Or, are you attempting to use El_Pescador's method of running  Ghost from Windows to load the Panasonic USB DOS drivers?

Yes!--it looks like that's what you are doing!  I've never used that method,  as I prefer to create boot floppy's or bootable optical discs rather than using the Windows Ghost interface--which also requires using the Ghost *virtual partition*--which I can not do with my normal setup because I use all 4 of my primary partition table slots for partitions so I can *multi-boot* using the method of switching which primary partition is active and not hidden--so I don't leave one slot unused so Ghost can run from Windows--it needs an open primary slot in the partition table to do that!

I see now that *Iomega's Guest* driver is being loaded because El_Pescador has put a *check* in the option *Assign drive letters*--that would cause that driver to be loaded!

(El_Pescador--if you see this--question--is loading that driver necessary?--Seems like that would be a competing DOS driver with the Mhairudo's DOS driver (di1000dd.sys) which is for assigning drive letters for external HDD's when using the Panasonic DOS USB drivers that mount the USB external HDD's?  Did you find that you need to also load the Ghost DOS driver *guest* for your setup to work?)

If you want to see what lines are being loaded in the boot files when using the Ghost Windows interface (i.e. *autoexec.bat* and *config.sys*), when creating the setup to run the procedure, the last screen before you tell the Wizard to run the procedure, you get a *summary screen* showing what Ghost is about to do.  It lists the *autoexec.bat* and *config.sys* files that it will run when it boots to DOS and Ghost's *virtual partition* to run that procedure.  Unfortunately, Ghost does not allow you to highlight and select text in that summary screen so one can copy and paste the information elsewhere!


Quote:
I had a thought.....maybe the drivers don't like PCI USB Controllers.

I have only native USB 1.1 on my system--I have added a PCI USB 2.0 controller card--Panasonic USB DOS drivers have worked flawlessly--but, I'm sure they do not work with every USB hardware component that's out there!


Quote:
As only one of my PCs has native USB 2.0, I think I cannot use this process, and should stick to DVDs, or wait for my copy of Ghost 9.0 to arrive and see how it handles PCI controllers.

USB 1.x will be the slowest method for Ghost 2003, then optical media, then Firewire, then USB 2.0, and then internal HDD which will be the fastest Ghost method.

Do you have floppy drives to work with--sometimes booting from a floppy boot disk with the correct drivers can solve problems that occur when trying to use the Windows Ghost interface.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 6th, 2006 at 11:28pm

Hi Guys

All I see in on the last screen before execution is the info that we added as part of the procedure, ie User files, etc. Nothing about which Autoexec etc.

I will now try the procedure on my PC with native 2.0.

My horse came last.....its been that kind of week already.

Cheers ;D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 7th, 2006 at 1:24am
Hi El P and Nightowl

I have now tried the windows based procedure on my newest PC (native usb 2.0) and I was very careful to put in all the commands correctly.....IT DIED....a GPF....haven't had one of them for a while.

I now give up...its too scary when it bahaves so differently on two machines.

Nightowl

I would like to try to build a Panasonic boot floppy and have assembled the files on a floppy as per instructions, however, I don't use Partition Magic, don't have partitioned drives.
If I put Ghost.exe on the root of the USB drive (drive E), how do I change the autoexec.bat so that the floppy finds and starts Ghost?  This would also be better if the C drive gets nuked.

Cheers 8)


Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 7th, 2006 at 2:29pm

NightOwl wrote on Nov 6th, 2006 at 10:10pm:
"... Or, are you attempting to use El_Pescador's method of running  Ghost from Windows to load the Panasonic USB DOS drivers?... I see now that *Iomega's Guest* driver is being loaded because El_Pescador has put a *check* in the option *Assign drive letters*--that would cause that driver to be loaded!... (El_Pescador--if you see this--question--is loading that driver necessary?--Seems like that would be a competing DOS driver with the Mhairudo's DOS driver (di1000dd.sys) which is for assigning drive letters for external HDD's when using the Panasonic DOS USB drivers that mount the USB external HDD's?  Did you find that you need to also load the Ghost DOS driver *guest* for your setup to work?)..."

[glb]A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More![/glb]
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1095438251;start=0#0

On September 17, 2004, Night Owl used the subject title up top (source at URL above) when introducing his novel MS-DOS based Panasonic Universal USB Driver routine.  Modifying boot disks generated with the Norton Ghost Boot Wizard, he introduced to these forum boards a method to overcome the shortcomings of various USB 2.0 devices and thus enable them to function in the DOS-based Ghost mode.  (To gather both of the requisite drivers for assembling NightOwl's routine, first CLICK HERE to download the usb-dos.zip file from Radified Binaries and extract only di1000dd.sys which is deeply nested within the MHAIRUDO.ZIP file; then next, CLICK HERE to download f2h_usb.exe and extract Usbaspi.sys - v2.20.)

Based on his research and trials, I believe that I have been able to take the essence of his ideas and extend them to where Ghost 2003 users can now use these same USB 2.0 devices in the XP-based mode of Windows.  So far, it appears that I have successfully managed to embed Night Owl's routine in the User Files of Ghost Options, i.e., they seem to work transparently in the Ghost Windows XP mode as well as the native Norton/Iomega PC-DOS driver set-up.


Click on 'Options'  as indicated above and then select 'Norton Ghost' .


Click on 'DOS type' and select 'MS-DOS' as indicated above.


Click on 'External storage driver settings' and select 'No USB drivers', but do check 'Assign drive letters' as indicated above.


Beforehand, open up the ...\common\... subfolder in the path outlined in blue above and copy the target '*.sys' files therein.  After entering Ghost 2003 later on, click on the 'Add files...' button to add the indicated '*.sys' items as 'Additional files' - the process itself will ensure the paths are indeed accurate.

The 'CONFIG.SYS additions' are self-explanatory, but stress is placed on the 'COMMON' statement being included exactly 'as-is', i.e., [COMMON] - not (COMMON).


****************************************************************************
Neither *guest.exe* nor *aspiehci.sys* are present - nor invoked as far as I can tell - in the *config.sys* illustated above nor in the steps leading to it.  I surmise that it takes a synergistic combination of positively responding to the drive letter assignment option while simultaneously calling for USB drivers - which is certainly not the case above, i.e., by not calling for USB drivers, a solicitation of *guest.exe* is nullified.

EP
:'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 7th, 2006 at 7:41pm

Hi Nightowl

I have tried fiddling with the path statement (with no knowledge) and booting the floppy but no joy...it says Starting Windows 98 (cos I used win98 to get MSDOS files?).....then it reads floppy a bit......instals mouse driver and says bad command to the ghost command....and sits on the A: command line.

It never ran through the loading of Panasonic drivers etc.

I guess I need a correct path command to point it at the config.sys and the USB drive (E?) where I put Ghost.exe.   I need it to go straight to ghost as command lines and me are not good friends..... :-[

My MSDOS.SYS shows 0k and looks empty...is that normal?

Cheers
Evereti ;D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 7th, 2006 at 8:02pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 7th, 2006 at 7:41pm:
"... I need it to go straight to ghost as command lines and me are not good friends..... :-[ ..."

If you live in the USA or Western Europe, feel free to send me your "snail-mail" address via Private Message so that I can send you gratis a functional set of 3.5-inch bootable floppies with the Panasonic drivers onboard::)

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 7th, 2006 at 9:01pm

hello El P

I live in Australia about 250k up the coast from Brian.

You say you have a "set" of floppies...? I thought it was one?
What is in a "set"...... :P

Cheers ;D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Brian on Nov 7th, 2006 at 9:05pm
EP, you could email them to Evereti. WinImage makes a nice compressed file.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 7th, 2006 at 10:41pm

Hi Guys

If email is possible El P....send to ianeverett@optusnet.com.au

Thanks ;D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 7th, 2006 at 11:56pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 7th, 2006 at 9:01pm:
"... I live in Australia about 250k up the coast from Brian.... You say you have a "set" of floppies...? I thought it was one?
What is in a "set"..."

Oz, eh... hmm, in that case let's fall back on Plan B.  CLICK HERE to review the exquisite details outlined in Reply # 15 which will allow you to construct a "set" of floppies (actually a pair) for booting into Norton Ghost 2003 employing a takeoff on NightOwl's Panasonic Universal USB Driver routine.  Therein you will see the necessity for having two floppies, albeit only the first need be bootable.  Were only the "snail-mail" approach more practical, the now-notional two floppy set considered would have conformed exactly to those specifications so outlined.  Just make sure that your version of usbaspi.sys is dated 11/7/2004 or later.

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 8th, 2006 at 3:25pm
Hi El Pescador

I will follow these instructions to the letter and I should be right.......willl take me a little time as my win98 machine is 30 min drive away.....

Also, I don't have partition magic (no partitions on disks), do I need the pqmagic bit in the path statement?

Thanks ;D


Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 8th, 2006 at 5:56pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 8th, 2006 at 3:25pm:
"... I don't have partition magic (no partitions on disks), do I need the pqmagic bit in the path statement?..."

Be sure to leave all 'pqmagic' references out.  They are vestigial remnants from another task where NightOwl was guiding me through a USB tangle, and are quite irrevelant in your case.

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 8th, 2006 at 11:42pm
Hi EP

So my path statement, if USB is "E" should look like this:

PATH=A:\;C:\;E:\

???

Haven't started yet as the trip to the Win 98 machine involves a visit to my Mother -in -law..........nuf sed.... ::)

Cheers
Evereti

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 9th, 2006 at 10:07am

Evereti wrote on Nov 8th, 2006 at 11:42pm:
"... So my path statement, if USB is "E" should look like this:

PATH=A:\;C:\;E:\

???..."

Bear in mind that the "fusion" set of Norton Ghost 2003 bootable diskettes illustrated was originally created with the Norton Ghost Boot Wizard before undergoing subsequent modification.  When firing up the Boot Wizard process to generate MS-DOS 2-Diskette Disaster Recovery Sets, you have to contribute MS-DOS by having formatted WIN 98SE system diskettes in place.  Your path statement is fine, but whereas the Norton Ghost Boot Wizard should create the file folders USB and Ghost for you, to "wear-both-a-belt-and-suspenders" you could even add:

PATH=A:\;A:\USB;A:\Ghost;C:\;E:\

Make sure you have the HIMEM.SYS file derived from C:\WINDOWS of a WIN 98SE OS PC at hand for adding to the Root Directory of A:\ in the latter stages of modification.  If you have to travel to get it, then be sure bring it back on media separate from the WIN 98SE system diskettes.

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 9th, 2006 at 12:18pm

Thanks EP

I will create the floppies, do the Ghost processing, and add HIMEM on the 98se machine, then do the mods and add the new drivers back on the XP machine, and try it out on 2 XP machines (XP Pro with the PCI USB 2.0 ports, and XP Home with native USB 2.0).

I also have a win 2000 laptop with only USB 1.0.  I think I need to leave out the "/e" to get both 1.x and 2.0 drivers?

Better get this done soon as the 98se machine will be converted to win 2000. Its the best operating system particularly for laptop.....XP functionality without the bloat.

Cheers ;D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 9th, 2006 at 12:29pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 9th, 2006 at 12:18pm:
"... Better get this done soon as the 98se machine will be converted to win 2000..."

I have even gone so far as to bulk-format virgin floppies in advance (by the dozens!) as WIN 98SE system diskettes, then go ahead and store them on the shelf.

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 9th, 2006 at 8:35pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 8th, 2006 at 11:42pm:
"... So my path statement, if USB is "E" should look like this:

PATH=A:\;C:\;E:\

???

Rather than work from either a failing memory or from ill-kept notes, I went back and actually used the Norton Ghost Boot Wizard to create a MS-DOS 2-Diskette Disaster Recovery Set from scratch using the Standard Ghost Boot Disk selection (see illustration below).  Despite the fact my external HDD indeed has a single FAT32 primary partition and is actually the personalized 'F:' drive so noted, the Path Statement is strictly "on-the-money" as drive letter assignments on HDDs are otherwise irrelevant and often misleading nowadays in DOS.



EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 10th, 2006 at 4:03am
Hi EP, Pleo, Brian

I may really have gone over to the dark side.

I have been trying a package called Iomega Automatic Back Pro.....very interesting.

It instals really eeeeasy. Self explanatory (big red cross for System Backup), finds all the PCs in my network automatically, backed up my 12.8gb NTFS system across the network in 45mins and compressed to 8.4gb.  It backed up my wireless laptop  (3.5gb W2K) in 25mins.  The process even tells you which path and user name to write down for recovery. It does scheduled back up of files and/or system.


Not yet brave enough to try a recovery, but, it comes with a .ISO image for a recovery environment which creates, with a couple of clicks, a Recovery CD.  This fires up and autodetects the NIC, asks for the path and name written down before, and automatically and instantly finds the image on the other PC, then prompts for the usual stuff, where to restore to etc.  All very simple and quick.

It also, of course, works to local internal hard drives, but I think it is restricted to some Iomega USB devices like REV and there USB hard drives, which it autodetects anywhere in the network.  I am buying an Iomega Portable USB so should be fixed up.

What's even better...its a free download (74mb) from the Iomega site. Also comes free with Iomega USB HDDs.

Has anyone any experience with this product.??? ::)

EP
I have built the NG2003 boot floppy set...worked sort of...my clunky USB HDD still only works on native usb1.1 so the drivers don't like my PCI USB 2.0 card.......On the other machine with the native usb 2.0 it failed when loading and flicks through too quick to see what went wrong and the k/b is inactive when it asks for second floppy.  I will work on this, it might be that my mouse and keyboard are USB and plugged in via a hub??

Cheers ;D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 10th, 2006 at 6:32am

Evereti wrote on Nov 10th, 2006 at 4:03am:
"... On the other machine with the native usb 2.0 it failed when loading and flicks through too quick to see what went wrong and the k/b is inactive when it asks for second floppy.  I will work on this, it might be that my mouse and keyboard are USB and plugged in via a hub??..."

The /norst setting has yet to fail me in maintaining USB keyboard and mouse functions with my perennial favorite, DOS-dependent Norton Ghost 2003.  Making Ghost 2003 function with USB external HDDs and, in particular, internal HDDs mounted in USB external enclosure kits is my singular forte'.

The USB hub sounds spooky, so I recommend temporarily trying PS/2 devices if possible.  Anyway, go ahead and try the config.sys below:

DEVICE = himem.sys
DEVICE = usb\usbaspi.sys /v /w /e /norst
DEVICE = usb\di1000dd.sys
DOS = high,umb
LASTDRIVE = Z

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 10th, 2006 at 6:53pm
Hi EP

Finally made it.

Don't know if it was the /norst  or the fact that I replugged the mouse and k/b native rather than through a hub....anyway it works as it should writing at USB 2.0 speed and sharing the USB drive (NTFS) with the other files already there.

Thanks
Evereti ;D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 10th, 2006 at 7:36pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 10th, 2006 at 6:53pm:
"... Finally made it..."

As I am prone to say at such moments: ::)
[glb]Kowabonga, Buffalo Bob !!![/glb]
EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by NightOwl on Nov 12th, 2006 at 12:36am
El_Pescador

In your reply #41, do you know if your setup fails if you do not select *Assign drive letters* in the *External storage driver settings* options?

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 12th, 2006 at 3:27pm

NightOwl wrote on Nov 12th, 2006 at 12:36am:
"... In your reply #41, do you know if your setup fails if you do not select *Assign drive letters* in the *External storage driver settings* options?..."




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/El_Pescador/Assign.jpg

Regrettably, in a word, yes. Compare the images above, and of the two it certainly appears that the upper image should be the candidate to select in order to turn out a far more streamlined and elegant instruction set for the incorporation of NightOwl's Panasonic Universal USB Driver  routine into a bootable diskette.  Regrettably, taking that path results in the creation of a single bootable diskette with only 16KB free which then cannot be subsequently modified downstream to accept the addition of the 33KB HIMEM.SYS file.  While swapping out USBASPI.SYS and DI1000DD.SYS for ASPIEHCI.SYS is pretty much a wash - and MOUSE.INI is probably not an issue - the circumstances still indicate to me the inevitability of having to generate a twin-diskette set which results from checking the Assign DOS drive letters box.

I even tried to trick the Norton Ghost Boot Wizard by not only dropping DRVSPACE.BIN up front, but preloading the HIMEM.SYS and MOUSE.INI files before selecting the ADD MS-DOS radio button to make it seem that the now-modified WIN 98SE system diskette was the 'real deal'.  It didn't work.

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 12th, 2006 at 4:10pm
Hi Guys

Don't think this is relevant to your discussion, but I found that if your system already has the MSDOS files, you only need a "formatted" set of floppies, not "formatted system disk",

The first thing the ghost processing does is copy the MSDOS files.

Anyway, mine worked....

Cheers ;D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 12th, 2006 at 9:30pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 12th, 2006 at 4:10pm:
"... Don't think this is relevant to your discussion, but I found that if your system already has the MSDOS files, you only need a "formatted" set of floppies, not "formatted system disk",

The first thing the ghost processing does is copy the MSDOS files..."

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1162268262;start=23#23

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 12th, 2006 at 9:48pm

El_Pescador wrote on Nov 12th, 2006 at 3:27pm:
"... Regrettably, taking that path results in the creation of a single bootable diskette with only 16KB free which then cannot be subsequently modified downstream to accept the addition of the 33KB HIMEM.SYS file..."

Well, what happens when the elegant single bootable diskette is used sans HIMEM.SYS.  For me, there was an error message warning of a shift of memory usage to a "lower aspect" of some kind, but once past that Norton Ghost 2003 seemed to operate quite normally for all intents and purposes .  However, since Norton Ghost 2003 is software I rely on strictly for use in extremis, I deem any error messages to be absolutely intolerable.

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by NightOwl on Nov 13th, 2006 at 1:01am
El_Pescador


Quote:
For me, there was an error message warning of a shift of memory usage to a "lower aspect" of some kind

Just after the system *POSTS*, and begins to read the floppy disk, hit F8 and select *step-by-step* confirmation so you can see which line in *config.sys* or *autoexec.bat* causes that error message.

I note you have a *DOS=high, umb* command in one of your setups--is that the one that causes the problem without loading *himem.sys*?

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 13th, 2006 at 11:09am

El_Pescador wrote on Nov 12th, 2006 at 9:48pm:
"... what happens when the elegant single bootable diskette is used sans HIMEM.SYS.  For me, there was an error message warning of a shift of memory usage to a "lower aspect" of some kind, but once past that Norton Ghost 2003 seemed to operate quite normally for all intents and purposes..."

NightOwl wrote on Nov 13th, 2006 at 1:01am:
"... I note you have a *DOS = high, umb* command in one of your setups--is that the one that causes the problem without loading *himem.sys*?..."

In my particular situation, removing both the *DEVICE = himem.sys* line and the *DOS=high, umb* line from the config.sys file of NightOwl's Panasonic Universal USB Driver routine allowed creation of a singular MS-DOS Disaster Recovery Diskette that appears for all intents and purposes to be fully functional with no error messages whatsoever.  Now, my curiosity is genuinely aroused as to what circumstances would these two lines pertaining to high memory in DOS be absolutely required.

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by NightOwl on Nov 14th, 2006 at 10:21am
El_Pescador


Quote:
Now, my curiosity is genuinely aroused as to what circumstances would these two lines pertaining to high memory in DOS be absolutely required.

Probably, for most users, those two commands are not required.  

I remember one poster who was having a problem with Ghost erring out in the middle of a Ghost image creation procedure--I think it was a laptop system--and adding the *device=himem.sys* solved that problem--I don't believe the *dos=high,umb* had any effect on his Ghost error problem.  

I'm not sure where, but I found a reference that stated that some systems (always so vague as to what that means!) do not manage memory in DOS correctly (again, always so vague--what effect does that have on one's system or programs under what circumstances?) without the addition of *himem.sys*--but my personal systems do not require it to run Ghost successfully.

In my original posting about the Panasonic USB DOS drivers, A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!, I included those two commands and added the *himem.sys* file to the boot files because the original source that I was using, Yes, there are USB drivers for DOS..., used those lines.  Looking back however, for some reason I did not use the *devicehigh* commands in [config.sys] as mentioned in that original source, nor the *LH* (short for *loadhigh*) in the [autoexec.bat]--can't remember why I decided not to do that being as I included the *device=himem.sys* line!  (As I worked on this post--I finally remembered why I left out *devicehigh* and *LH (loadhigh)*--see last section of this post.)

**********************************

Now, for the more technically inclined--the *details*  ::) :

The reason for using *himem.sys* is to create additional memory space for DOS to use in what's called *High Memory Area* (HMA)--the first 640 KB of RAM is called *conventional memory* that DOS uses to run programs--the RAM area from 640 to 1024 KB is called the *Upper Memory Blocks* (UMB) area, and then just above that 1024 boundary is an area that's a little less than 64 KB called the *High Memory Area (HMA)--DOS can not access HMA without *himem.sys*.  

The need for HMA occurs if you are running so many DOS drivers and programs that you run out of RAM in that first 640 KB of conventional memory.  If HMA is available, then DOS can load a portion of the DOS OS into HMA rather than using conventional memory,  and that frees up more conventional memory for more programs and device drivers.

Ghost is a small DOS program and most users will rarely load enough other DOS programs or drivers to use up too much of the 640 conventional memory to create a memory crunch problem.

If you want to also use the UMB memory area, then in addition to loading *himem.sys*, you must also load an *Upper Memory Block* memory provider (manager)--MS-DOS's is *emm386.exe*.

One of my favorite references for DOS is Vernon Frazee's MS-DOS v6.22 Help: Command Reference .

Looking at the < DOS > command reference:


Quote:
DOS--Notes

Must install HIMEM.SYS for DOS=UMB or DOS=HIGH

You must install the HIMEM.SYS device driver or another extended memory
manager before you specify either DOS=UMB or DOS=HIGH.


Using the UMB parameter

You must specify the DOS=UMB command in order to load programs and device
drivers into the upper memory area. Using the upper memory area frees more
space in conventional memory for programs. In addition to using this
command, you must install an upper-memory-block (UMB) provider. If your
computer has an 80386 or 80486 processor, you can use <EMM386.EXE> for your
UMB provider.


If you specify DOS=UMB and no UMB provider is installed, MS-DOS will not
display an error message.


Using the HIGH parameter

If you specify the HIGH parameter, MS-DOS attempts to load part of itself
into the HMA. Loading part of MS-DOS into the HMA frees conventional memory
for programs. If you specify DOS=HIGH and MS-DOS is unable to use the HMA,
the following message will appear:


  HMA not available
   Loading DOS low



So, basically, if you use *dos=high,umb*, you must load *himem.sys* in order to have DOS use the *high* parameter successfully, and you will get an error message if you have not loaded *himem.sys*.  In order for DOS to use UMB's, then in additiion to the *himem.sys* driver, you also need to load *emm386.exe*--if you have not provided *emm386.exe* along with *himem.sys*, DOS will not show an error message, but UMB's will not be used!

***************************************

I just looked at the < devicehigh >, and < loadhigh >--I remember now why I didn't use the *devicehigh* and *LH (loadhigh)* commands in my posting for the Panasonic USB DOS drivers:

*devicehigh* (for use in [config.sys],  and *LH (loadhigh)* (for use in [autoexec.bat]) are commands that load programs into the UMB area--and unless you have loaded the UMB memory manager *emm386.exe*--these commands are non-functional and your programs are loaded into *conventional* memory--*devicehigh* and *LH* have no effect unless *emm386.exe* has been loaded!


Quote:
Installing HIMEM.SYS and a UMB provider

To load a device driver into the upper memory area, your computer must have
extended memory. You must use the DEVICE command once to install the
HIMEM.SYS device driver
and then again to install an upper-memory-block
(UMB) provider.
These commands must appear before the DEVICEHIGH command in
your CONFIG.SYS file.

To have been technically correct, and consistent--I should have changed *dos=high,umb* to simply *dos=high*, being as *emm386.exe* was not being loaded and the *umb* in *dos=high,umb* was not going to perform any function!

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 15th, 2006 at 8:13pm

NightOwl wrote on Nov 14th, 2006 at 10:21am:
"... unless you have loaded the UMB memory manager *emm386.exe*--these commands are non-functional and your programs are loaded into *conventional* memory--*devicehigh* and *LH* have no effect unless *emm386.exe* has been loaded!..."

If you were inclined to "pull-out-all-the-stops", then how, where and with what switches/options would you incorporate the *emm386.exe/himem.sys/DOS=high,umb* combo into NightOwl's Panasonic Universal USB Driver routine?

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by NightOwl on Nov 15th, 2006 at 8:57pm
El_Pescador

Patience--I plan on working on this--I want to try to make a couple DOS screen shots to show the memory usage difference with and without using those UMB and HMA!

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 18th, 2006 at 9:24pm
Hi EP and Nightowl

An long update on my efforts, I now have an Iomega Portable 80gb USB 2.0 HDD...its a beaut...fits in shirt pocket, needs no power:
-----------------------------------------------------
Compaq Laptop (Win 2000) with only one USB 1.x port.  

This works 100% with the Panasonic driver floppies, but with the /e taken out of the USBASPI.SYS line.

Also, it works 100% just using the NG2003 windows interface and picking USB 1.1 drivers.  A standard Ghost boot disk (with USB 1.1) works 100% for restore.

Its not too quick but as the whole system is only 3.5gb its all done in 45mins.....no worries. ;D
------------------------------------------------------
Acer (winXP) with native USB 2.0.

Panasonic drivers work 100% (with /e inc) and at full speed....
Excellent ;D
-------------------------------------------------------
Compaq Evo (winxp) with native USB 1.x and Ali PCI - USB 2.0 card.......THIS IS MY PROBLEM CHILD.

Panasonic drivers (without /e) work fine if HDD plugged into USB 1.x....very slow of course 12.5gb system takes over 2 hours.

If I put back the /e and plug it into Ali PCI - USB 2.0 card and boot step by step, everything looks 100% with no error messages, Ghost fires up, I pick the source, then when I pick the destination Ghost shows me the Iomega USB but when I click it, the light goes out on the drive....its like Ghost switched it off, demounted it or something.

My USBASPI.SYS has /v /w /e /norst

/e is for USB 2...what do the others do?

I also tried running from the standard windows interface using usb 2.0 and it said:
quote
Iomega ASPI - USB EHCI 1.0
etc etc
ID4 = HTS421280H9AT00
Installed successfully

Bad or missing Command Interpreter (for example, C:\ Command.com)
C:\ _
unquote

I even tried slipping in the AliEhci.sys from the driver disk for the PCI card but it fell over saying it could not run this program in DOS....probably not a DOS driver.
-------------------------------------------------

Nearly very happy....if only I could solve PCI card problem.

Cheers
Evereti ???

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by El_Pescador on Nov 18th, 2006 at 9:56pm

Evereti wrote on Nov 18th, 2006 at 9:24pm:
"... Compaq Evo (winxp) with native USB 1.x and Ali PCI - USB 2.0 card... THIS IS MY PROBLEM CHILD... if only I could solve PCI card problem..."

The solution is surprisingly simple but somewhat bitter - pitch the ALi-compliant PCI-to-USB2 card and select one that is NEC-compliant... a replacement  PCI-to-USB2 host controller card will address your issue, but I would strongly advise against procuring any card that is not NEC-compliant (which means avoiding ALi-compliant, SiS-compliant, or VIA-compliant plus anything that smacks of Intel or nVidia).

CLICK HERE for an inexpensive card proven to be Ghost 2003-friendly.  

EP :'(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by NightOwl on Nov 18th, 2006 at 11:42pm
Evereti

What El_Pescador said--I second it!


Quote:
My USBASPI.SYS has /v /w /e /norst  

/e is for USB 2...what do the others do?

/e = *enhanced* USB--i.e. USB 2.0

/w = *wait*--when you are booting and you are instructed to plug in your USB device

/v = *verbose*--shows more details of the result of loading the USB DOS driver

/norst = *no reset*--if your system loads *legacy USB support* for keyboard and mouse--this prevents the Panasonic driver from taking over the controllers for the keyboard and mouse--but may not work if your keyboard and mouse are hooked up to USB 2.0 controllers along with your USB HDD

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 18th, 2006 at 11:59pm

Hi Guys

I have found the following available on Ebay OZ:

1) ST Lab PCI card with NEC 720101 chipset
2) Unknown brand card with NEC UPD 720100 chipset
3) Sunix card with NEC chipset (type not specified)

I guess any of these would be OK?

Cheers :D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Nov 19th, 2006 at 1:39am

Hi again

Just tried Ghost Explorer and it works fine through the Ali PCI USB 2.0 card................I guess Ghost is more critical when doing backup and restore....??

Cheers :o

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by NightOwl on Nov 19th, 2006 at 8:52am
Evereti


Quote:
Just tried Ghost Explorer and it works fine through the Ali PCI USB 2.0 card

Ghost Explorer runs under Windows--uses the Windows based USB drivers which is the *native* environment that the USB standard was designed for--so expect *more* compatibility--have to be more compatible to meet the USB standards.

Doing image creation or restores--Ghost has to run in DOS--and those Windows drivers are no longer in play--must use DOS USB drivers--and how compatible those are with various USB hardware components depends on how much work the developer of those drivers put into their driver software.


Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by NightOwl on Nov 23rd, 2006 at 1:45am
El_Pescador

Ok--so back to your question in reply # 67:


Quote:
If you were inclined to "pull-out-all-the-stops", then how, where and with what switches/options would you incorporate the *emm386.exe/himem.sys/DOS=high,umb* combo into NightOwl's Panasonic Universal USB Driver routine?

First--I probably wouldn't--as I mentioned previously--*emm386.exe* does not help Ghost work any better--just changes how much conventional memory is available--but Ghost doesn't need that extra memory!

*Himem.sys* may be needed by some systems--but probably rarely.

But here goes.  First, I *rem*'d (remarked out--this prevents that line from loading during boot) those lines that I did not want to load for the first screen shot--this will be loading the device drivers all in *conventional memory*:

[config.sys]

rem  Device=himem.sys
rem  Device=emm386.exe ram
Device=usb\usbaspi.sys /v /w /norst
Device=usb\di1000dd.sys
rem  Dos=high
Lastdrive=z

[autoexec.bat]

@echo off
SET TZ=GHO+08:00
path=a:\;a:\ghost;a:\usb
mouse.com
rem  echo Loading...
rem  cd Ghost
rem  ghost.exe

[list of files and sub-directories]

[Ghost]   (sub-directory--empty)
[USB]        (sub-directory--usb drivers)
AUTOEXEC.BAT
COMMAND.COM
CONFIG.SYS
EDIT.COM     (optional to edit config.sys or autoexe.bat)
EMM386.EXE
HIMEM.SYS
IO.SYS
MEM.EXE    (DOS program to show memory usage)
mouse.com
MSDOS.SYS

[USB]

di1000dd.sys
Usbaspi.sys



So, after loading--here's the screen shot of the memory usage from the *mem.exe* program:

http://nightowl.radified.com/forumimages/MemBasic.GIF

There's 640 k of conventional memory, 133 k used by the loaded drivers, and 507 k available for running programs.  No Upper Memory (blocks) (UMB) is available.

*****************************************************

Now--un-rem'd the *Device=himem.sys* and *DOS=High*:


[config.sys]

Device=himem.sys
rem  Device=emm386.exe ram
Device=usb\usbaspi.sys /v /w /norst
Device=usb\di1000dd.sys
Dos=high
Lastdrive=z

[autoexec.bat]

@echo off
SET TZ=GHO+08:00
path=a:\;a:\ghost;a:\usb
mouse.com
rem  echo Loading...
rem  cd Ghost
rem  ghost.exe


Now, you see in the last line that DOS is loaded in *high memory area* (HMA), still no UMB's, and now you have 569 k available to run a DOS program.

*****************************************************

Now, un-rem'd *Device=emm386.exe ram*, added *DeviceHigh* for loading drivers in config.sys, and used *LH* (LoadHigh) to load drivers in autoexec.bat:


[config.sys]

Device=himem.sys
Device=emm386.exe ram
DeviceHigh=usb\usbaspi.sys /v /w /norst
DeviceHigh=usb\di1000dd.sys
Dos=high, umb
Lastdrive=z

[autoexec.bat]

@echo off
SET TZ=GHO+08:00
path=a:\;a:\ghost;a:\usb
LH mouse.com
rem  echo Loading...
rem  cd Ghost
rem  ghost.exe

http://nightowl.radified.com/forumimages/MemEmm386.GIF

So, now there is 79 k UMB's to use, of which 57 k is in use and there is 622 k available for running DOS programs.

*****************************************************

Finally--if you use those additional USB DOS drivers, *ghost.exe* can no longer fit on the initial boot disk--you have to go to a 2-disk set--disk #1 for the boot files, and disk #2 for *ghost.exe*.  So, below I'm going to *pull out all the stops* and outline both disk #1 and disk #2--and just to make it a *complete* DOS boot disk set, I'm adding the CD-ROM drivers as well!

[Disk #1--boot disk]

[config.sys]

Device=himem.sys
Device=emm386.exe ram
DeviceHigh=usb\usbaspi.sys /v /w /norst
DeviceHigh=usb\di1000dd.sys
DeviceHigh=oakcdrom.sys /d:nightowl
Dos=high, umb
Lastdrive=z

[autoexec.bat]

@echo off
SET TZ=GHO+08:00
path=a:\;a:\ghost;a:\usb
LH mouse.com
LH mscdex.exe /d:nightowl /l:x /m:16 /v
cls
echo.
echo.
echo  Boot Disk #1 has finished loading.
echo.
echo  Eject Disk #1, and put in Disk #2.
echo.
echo  *Press any key* when you are ready to continue.
pause
echo Loading...
cd Ghost
ghost.exe


[list of files and sub-directories]

[Ghost]   (sub-directory--empty)
[USB]        (sub-directory--usb drivers)
AUTOEXEC.BAT
COMMAND.COM
CONFIG.SYS
EDIT.COM     (optional to edit config.sys or autoexe.bat)
EMM386.EXE
HIMEM.SYS
IO.SYS
mouse.com
mscdex.exe
MSDOS.SYS
oakcdrom.sys

[USB]

di1000dd.sys
Usbaspi.sys

[Ghost]   (empty on boot disk #1)


[Disk #2--*ghost.exe* disk]


[list of files and sub-directories for disk #2]

[Ghost]   (sub-directory--copy your *ghost.exe* to this sub-directory)
AUTOEXEC.BAT
COMMAND.COM

[Ghost]

ghost.exe


Notes:  

1.  For disk #2, the *autoexec.bat* and *command.com* are the same files as you used on disk #1--placing these on the second floppy disk simply avoids having DOS giving you an error message about being unable to find *command.com* or asking you to put in the first boot disk because it's looking for *autoexec.bat* to see if the batch file was completed.

2.  Personally, I would *rem* out the *emm386.exe* line--one can just leave the *devicehigh* and *LH* statements--they will simply be ignored without *emm386.exe*.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Dec 3rd, 2006 at 10:09pm

Hi Guys

Just to close this off....got a NEC PCI USB 2.0 Card (replaced the Ali card) and the dual floppy Panasonic drivers work perfectly.

I see a single floppy set up on another thread, might try one of them.....!

Cheers
Evereti

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Dec 6th, 2006 at 12:29am
Hi Guys

I was thinking of making a Bootable Ghost CD (just like the Panansonic floppy or floppies) and read Nightowl's pages on creating one without a floppy drive and got hopelessly lost. ??? Sorry Nightowl.

Is there an idiot's guide to creating such a CD given that I do have a floopy drive, and I have a Standard Ghost boot floppy, as well as Panasonic Boot two floppy set (will make Panasonic single soon).......?

I have Winimage and can suck in the floppy contents, but am having trouble getting them burnt back onto CD from Winimage.

Cheers
Evereti ;D

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by NightOwl on Dec 6th, 2006 at 3:39pm
Evereti


Quote:
read Nightowl's pages on creating one without a floppy drive and got hopelessly lost.  Sorry Nightowl.

Apology graciously accepted  ;) --I noted that as a possible negative of trying to use my guide!

If you have a floppy drive, and a boot floppy that works the way you want it to--then it's pretty easy to create a bootable CD.

The first floppy will have the needed boot files--most burning programs give you the option of letting the program read a bootable floppy as a source to create a bootable CD.  Just select that option when asked by the program.

The second floppy simply has the Ghost program on it--that needs to be placed on the *data* part of the bootable CD that's being created.

You may have to make some minor adjustments to [config.sys] and/or [autoexec.bat] to point to the drive letter that is being assigned to the optical drive.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Dec 6th, 2006 at 5:48pm
Hi Nightowl

I used Nero, very simple, as long as the CD is really blank, ie if rewriteable, do a full erase, and did not have to change anything from the floppy.

BUT, before that I wanted to create a single panasonic floppy but did not have access to a win 98 PC, but did have a working dual floppy set, so:

Cloned first disk of dual set using WinImage, then modified it to look like El P's single disk....works like a charm.

Point to note here is that WinImage allows you to format the target floppy using "Import format from currently selected disk", thus getting over the need for a Win 98 PC.  So WinImage procedure is:
1) insert working Ghost floppy, click read disk,
2) remove floppy,
3) insert target floppy and format using "import format from currently selected disk"
4) click write disk
5) enyoy.

I now have working single Panasonic floppy, and working Panasonic CD....excellent ;D ;D

I guess I could try creating an ISO image from the CD and then I can always create a new CD or floppy in the future.

Cheers
Evereti

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Dec 7th, 2006 at 8:48pm

Further to previous post, it seems that it is not necessary to perform the format step.

Once you have a working Single Panasonic Floppy, and have used WinImage to "read" the image, and saved it on hard drive, then that image can be opened and "write disk" to any floppy.  I used a win2000 formatted floppy and WinImage just writes the stored image and produces a working bootable Panasonic floppy.

Evereti

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by NightOwl on Dec 7th, 2006 at 8:57pm
Evereti

Ah, beginning to see the *beauty* of WinImage!!!

Also, you do not need a *Win98 PC*!  Download the boot disk file from here:  BootDisks.com

Choose the *Windows 98 OEM* file to download, execute the program file on a system with a floppy drive (it's okay if it's a WinXP system, etc.--the boot disk will be the orginal Win98 ERD (Emergency Recover Disk) regardless of the current OS and file system that you are using!), and supply a formatted floppy disk when requested.

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Jan 1st, 2007 at 4:20pm
Hi   El Pesc   and Nightowl

I'm Back.....!

Few weeks ago I created a single Panasonic Ghost boot floppy (and a CD version) and all seemed well....however my testing regime was flawed.....I tested it by running an Integrity Check on an existing Ghost Image. Using my Iomega USB HDD.

Now that it is time for another backup I used the single floppy and Ghost hung up about 450-460mb (1 min 30 secs) into the backup.....froze the system and required the big red button to get back.  It does this on both my XP systems.

Dual floppy works perfectly....single floppy works perfectly on Integrity check but gets stuck every time 450mb into process......

Any Ideas

Cheers
Evereti >:(

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Brian on Jan 1st, 2007 at 4:45pm
Evereti,

Did you overcome the ReatogoXPE issue with network drivers? Did you make a Ghost 9 plugin?

Title: Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Post by Evereti on Jan 1st, 2007 at 5:24pm

Hi Brian...Happy New Year

I gave up on Reatogo for the time being....concentrating on getting the Ghost CD working..

and getting the new AV 5.1 Recvr and surround speakers, DVD , PVR working....Santa was good to me...... ;D ;D

Cheers
Evereti

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