I've spent so long trying to find out what will work for me I think I've used up all the time I was due to save if my notebook disk died. Anyway, I'm persevering.

Here's my situation. I have a Dell Inspiron 9400 running XP Media Centre Edition 2005. Sony DVD/CD-ROM. No SATA interface to motherboard. I'm a novice so didn't know anything about partitioning. Thus everything is on C: - about 70GB of 100GB disk used (60GB in My Documents) so too late to move unless i backup My Docs, delete contents, create partition, move My Docs, put contents back in new place - is this wise? I now want to safeguard my data and operating system so I bought a Seagate 7200.10 3.5" 250GB internal SATA disk and an enclosure which connects to my notebook via USB. I'll call this my enclosure disk. I have no floppy drive.

OK so now to my problem: what's the best way to minimise misery when my notebook disk or operating system dies?

Here's my thinking so far. Data i can just copy to and from the external drive so need no special knowledge or software, though it would doubtless be neater and easier with some. So how to recover the operating system and apps? Well, that's what Ghost does but do I really need it (maybe there is something that comes with XP that'll do what I need)? And how easy will it be for a fool like me to get it to work?

If I assume I need Ghost (or at least it is the best solution) I'm thinking v10 is the one to go for because of the USB support and no need for this DOS/FAT disk dependency I've read a little about.   Because the key, I think, is that the Recovery Disk Environment can browse to the enclosure disk via USB (to find my Ghost images) and then write to the internal disk when Windows (and drivers) is unavailable. The Ghost 10 user guide says some stuff about loading drivers from a disk if you can't get to local drives so maybe using the disk that came with the enclosure disk will get me to the enclosure from the Recovery Environment.

I think, to recover the entire computer I need to have an entire drive image, so because I have only 1 partition this image will be large and one good reason to have it on the enclosure drive. Creating the baseline may take ages but the differentials will be OK I suppose. At least doing the entire disk at once will do my data and OS. Talking of which this gets me a bit confused as I always thought Ghost was just for the OS. Now I understand it to do everything (well everything if you select everything). Correct?

Right, 'bout time to wrap this up. In summary:
1. Do I need Ghost, and if so v10?
2. Should I try and rectify my lack of partitions in spite of the amount of data already written?
3. If I go with Ghost, I'm slightly concerned that after lots of effort I won't actually be able to recover the OS when I actually need to so I might as well not bother and stick with just manually backing up data files and reconfigure/reinstall the rest. Do you think a novice is capable of Ghosting with my setup?
4. Are they any glaring misapprehensions in my waffle above?

Thanks to all who have managed to read this far and are kind enough to offer advice.

Tom

Tom, a brief scenario to consider.

Buy Ghost 10
Move the contents of My Documents to your external HD so you will only have 10 GB in the C: drive
Use Ghost 10 to create a recovery point (backup image) of the C: drive, writing it to the external HD
Copy My Documents back to the C: drive (leaving a backup copy on the external HD)

At this point you are fully covered in the event of a laptop HD failure.

Look at http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/notes.htm#13 to see the advantages of partitions in a backup strategy. When you are ready we could help you partition your laptop HD without losing data.

Just read Ghost4me's "Simple solutions: USB2/Firewire drives & Ghost" (as well as the lengthy discourse on the reasons for sometimes not being able to see USB connected drives) and it has given me confidence that I can get Ghost 10 working for me with my enclosure. Still not sure if Ghost's a bit overkill for me and if my lack of partitions is gonna give me grief.

Tom

tommy_tank wrote on Nov 20^th, 2006 at 8:48pm:

Still not sure if Ghost's a bit overkill for me

You won't say that WHEN the HD fails or the C: drive becomes corrupted. You will have no trouble using Ghost 10.

Ghost is never overkill. An imaging prgm is a necessity.

Lack of partitions *can* generate challenges. Partitions offer flexibility.

http://partition.radified.com/

tommy_tank wrote on Nov 20^th, 2006 at 7:40pm:

"... what's the best way to minimise misery when my notebook disk or operating system dies?..."

If I were in your situation and wanted to "hit-the-ground-running", I would buy a retail boxed copy of Norton Ghost 10.0 (which should have a CD of the latest release of Norton Ghost 2003 enclosed as lagniappe) just as Brian suggests above.  However, as a prelude to following his very sound advice I would advocate using Norton Ghost Version 8.2 in the Ghost Windows Preinstalled Environment to create a "(whole-physical) disk-to-image" legacy Backup on your external HDD before proceeding any further. To do so, simply boot from the the Ghost 10.0 installation CD itself and immediately engage the legacy Backup/Restore or Clone "cold-imaging" procedures by following the path 'Recover > Recover Data on My Computer > Recover using a legacy Ghost image' which has the side benefit of bypassing both the troublesome USB mass-storage device and SATA HDD glitches associated with DOS-dependent Ghost 2003.  In essence, this procedure uses restoreghost.exe (an alternate name for ghost32.exe) to allow either cloning or the immediate creation of legacy Norton Ghost Backup images concomitant with Recovery of such images that are in fact totally compatible and interchangeable with those *.gho/*.ghs files created with the ghost.exe of Norton Ghost 2003 - but not with those created with Ghost 9, Ghost 10.0, or Norton Save & Restore during "hot-imaging".

Then, once your physical disc universe is comprehensively backed up, go on over to the "Dark Side" with a light heart resulting from the full knowledge and total confidence that you have exercised what is IMHO is both a reliable and a robust method of securing the contents of your MASTER HDD in all of its aspects. However, be advised that should the need ever arise to perform a legacy Ghost "image-to-disk" Restore, the result is a process where the whole-disk Backup image overrides and overwrites pre-existing drive letter assignments, partitions, file file system formats, and logical drives (if any) on the Destination HDD.

Further, be advised that once you do "cross to the Dark Side" to dabble in the "hot-imaging" technology of Norton Ghost 10.0 (a derivative of PowerQuest Drive Image 7.n), you will likely be compelled to use the 25-character Product Key to register the Ghost 10.0 product.

CLICK HERE to view my preferred - but admittedly convoluted - "path-less-traveled" of using ghost32.exe on a BartPE-XPE (reatogo edition) CD to generate Norton Ghost 2003-compatible files independent of DOS.

EP :'(

Thanks to all for the advice.

So my main question is answered. Ghost 10 is what I need and I can get it to work quite easily with my current hardware config. Cool. Also answered is whether I should move towards getting a sensibly partitioned HD. Yes I should. I knew partitions were good but my problem was I didn't know if I should partition a 100GB HD when 70GB has already been written to it. So what next?

I like EP's plan to create a "(whole-physical) disk-to-image" legacy backup using 8.2 before doing anything, so let's say I do this.
Brian suggests moving My Docs, imaging C:, put them back. I infer from this that imaging everything (data & OS) regularly on C: is unwise or impossible and anyway I want a 10GB C: image (which I can't maintain without moving off My Docs each time) because I will use it to recreate C: once partitioning is complete?

EP, I think it would be wise for me to stay away from the 'convoluted - "path-less-traveled"' so let's say I proceed with Ghost 10. I didn't understand the advice that I may be compelled to use the Product Key to register Ghost 10. Is this a problem (assuming I have bought it legitimately)?

So then I partition my drive in the knowlege I can recover all the way back to my original just C: config if need be, and when I lose all OS and data in the partitioning process, I can image the 10GB C: OS back and copy my data to the new D:, all from the external HD. And these recovery procedures will be easy for a novice like me. It is critical that I can recover from a complete system wipe. I am not unaware of the irony of giving myself misery, by taking action to prevent misery. Please stop me if my reasoning thus far is flawed.

So, my trail will lead to partitioning and Brian has kindly offered help with this. I shall be taking the forum up on it. All I need to know at this stage about this is whether it is pretty easy and not risky (backups as above assumed). I have read "Doc's FDISK Guide to Hard Drive Partitioning" (I don't want to buy Partition Magic) and think I am up to it but I get the impression that I can do what I need to within XP with no floppies (I have no floppy drive), CDs or booting into funny pre-OS modes. Also I will want NTFS not FAT32 so partitioning through DOS I don't think is an option. Anyway, the point is that if I can do it through XP then I'd feel more confident. If too much talk of partitioning in this topic or forum is inappropriate let me know.  

Thanks all,

Tom

tommy_tank wrote on Nov 21^st, 2006 at 10:18am:

"... Also answered is whether I should move towards getting a sensibly partitioned HD. Yes I should. I knew partitions were good but my problem was I didn't know if I should partition a 100GB HD when 70GB has already been written to it. So what next?..."

IMHO your 250GB SATA NCQ Seagate Barracuda with twin 133GB platters is the optimal internal HDD for mounting in an external enclosure kit.  It should perform the job in an excellent manner while operating in a desirable temperature range whether actively or passively cooled.  Seriously, you really should give some thought to letting a portion of those files that are consuming 70GB while residing on your notebook PC's MASTER HDD be given a permanent berth on your external HDD setup.


tommy_tank wrote on Nov 21^st, 2006 at 10:18am:

"... I didn't understand the advice that I may be compelled to use the Product Key to register Ghost 10. Is this a problem (assuming I have bought it legitimately)?..."

Actually, no - but I am one of those folks that likes to put off registering any such software to really "get-my-money's-worth" by initiating the 12-month licensing framework at the latest practical moment. Using the lagniappe Norton Ghost 2003 software, the Norton Windows Preinstalled Environment on the Norton Ghost 10.0 installation CD, or incorporating the Norton Ghost Version 8.2 elements into a BartPE CD or a Reatogo-X-PE CD plugin can all be done without using the Product Key to register.


tommy_tank wrote on Nov 21^st, 2006 at 10:18am:

"... I don't want to buy Partition Magic... what I need to within XP with no floppies (I have no floppy drive), CDs or booting into funny pre-OS modes. Also I will want NTFS not FAT32 so partitioning through DOS I don't think is an option. Anyway, the point is that if I can do it through XP then I'd feel more confident..."

If the internal 250GB Seagate HDD came with the DiscWizard utility software on CD, you already have a superb tool for partitioning a HDD from scratch - albeit not in midstream - while running in XP. Furthermore, there is a dandy - albeit DOS-dependent - tool for performing a "low-level format" (actually a zero-fill routine) to thoroughly "scrub" a physical HDD which is located on the Ghost 10.0 CD at x:\Ghost\Support\GDisk.exe.

EP :'(  

Tom,


Quote:

I want a 10GB C: image (which I can't maintain without moving off My Docs each time)

My suggestion was for a once off image and data move. Partitioning to be done afterwards.

EP finds good $ deals on PMagic. PM really makes it easy. You just shrink the C: drive partition (when it has 10 GB of data) and add a data partition. Without PM you have to delete everything from the HD, create partitions and then restore the C: drive image. Can be done, but takes longer and seeing your C: drive disappear for the first time is scary.

Whichever way you go, we'll help.

Brian wrote on Nov 21^st, 2006 at 3:21pm:

"... EP finds good $ deals on PMagic.  PM really makes it easy.  You just shrink the C: drive partition (when it has 10 GB of data) and add a data partition. Without PM you have to delete everything from the HD, create partitions and then restore the C: drive image. Can be done, but takes longer and seeing your C: drive disappear for the first time is scary. Whichever way you go, we'll help..."

Ditto what Brian says.  Symantec Partition Magic 8.0 was in my toolkit back when it was labeled PowerQuest, and it has never let me down while modifying partitions in midstream, i.e., where there were contents on the HDD to safeguard.

EP :'(

I have read a bit on the Dell notebook partitions today - http://www.goodells.net/dellrestore/mediadirect.htm. Because it has 3 Dell partitions outside the C: which I want to keep intact and may be difficult to Ghost (notably the Host-Protected Area which holds Media Direct and may not even be backed up with a Ghost 8.2 "(whole-physical) disk-to-image" as it's so hidden), I am wary of doing anything that may wipe these other partitions (or change the Master Boot Record and stop them being usable - e.g. I really want to keep the Dell recovery partition which could be useful if things go really badly). So I think that means I really should/need to use Partition Magic. Again, please stop me if I'm not reasoning this out right.

EP, I plan to give some data a permanent berth on the external HDD but it won't be hooked up much of the time so I only really want to move stuff I rarely want. The plan is to use the HDD for backups and storage only, keeping it somewhere separate from the notebook so I am more portable and thieves are less likely to take both.

So, I think Ghost 10 and Partition Magic are the tools for me. Any advice on places for good deals?

Right so unless I've really misunderstood something I'm good to go. Thanks all, and I'll be back - hopefully from my own PC :) .

Tom

Tom, you mentioned 3 Dell partitions. The first is the 50 MB Utility partition. This can be imaged and restored. I've done that. The second is (I assume) the Dell restore partition which contains an image of your C: drive as it was when the computer arrived. I delete this partition because I'm making current Ghost backup images and I have no need to restore the computer to day 1. But others keep this partition. The third is the HPA for Media Direct. I don't know if this is included in a whole disk image.

You probably noticed in Dan Goodell's site that as soon as you make partitioning changes to the HD, the Restore partition and the HPA stop working. Dan has tutorials on how to fix each partition. I've fixed the HPA partition but I haven't tried fixing the Restore partition as I don't use it anyway.

So the partitioning plan would be to temporarily move the My Documents contents to your external HD again. Then use PM to shrink the C: drive to your desired size and make a Data partition from the unallocated space created by shrinking the C: drive. The other partitions would remain intact and Dan Goodell's fixes would be used to get them working again. It's all straight forward stuff.

Before you start partitioning you will have done the whole disk image suggested by EP and the C: drive image and data backup that I suggested. Belt and braces.

One last point, backup your Dell MBR before you partition, as suggested by Dan. You will need this MBR to get the Restore partition working again.

tommy_tank wrote on Nov 21^st, 2006 at 6:19pm:

"... So, I think Ghost 10 and Partition Magic are the tools for me. Any advice on places for good deals?..."

[glb]EXPIRES COB 11/22/2006: Norton Ghost 10.0 Retail Box with Norton Ghost 2003 CD included inside as lagniappe :o[/glb]
CLICK HERE to view FREE offer on retail boxed Norton Ghost 10.0 in banner above - after $60 in MIRs.

CLICK HERE to download $40 MIR form.

CLICK HERE to download $20 MIR upgrade form.

EP :'(

That's excellent help Brian. Much appreciated. I'm clear on what needs to be done now, though a little nervous. Anyway, I've come this far...

A query about partitioning my notebook HDD with Partition Magic. Currently I have an 87GB C drive. My OS & apps take up 10GB, My Documents 60GB and 17GB is unused. Let us assume I will keep the Dell Restore partition and want the new C drive partition to be 15GB and the D: 72GB.

Having moved off My Docs, when I then shrink the C: drive will the data left on the disk to the right (centre) of 15GB (that part of the disk that will become the D drive) get moved into the 15GB partition or will I trust that a defrag will move it?

If it is the case that I will lose the data not in the 15GB partition I suppose I could just recover the C: drive Ghost image I took at the beginning to the new C:?

Tom

tommy_tank wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2006 at 1:14pm:

Having moved off My Docs, when I then shrink the C: drive will the data left on the disk to the right (centre) of 15GB (that part of the disk that will become the D drive) get moved into the 15GB partition

You don't lose any data. All data is moved "to the left" as the partition is resized smaller.

Could you look in Disk Management and let us know the order of the partitions in the Disk 0 rectangle and their sizes?

Tom, how much RAM do you have? How large is your Page File? Do you have Hibernation enabled? How much % of the C: drive is allocated for System Restore. This gives us an idea of C: drive data usage.

Disk 0:
From the left
1. 78MB FAT
2. 87.03GB NTFS
3. 4.64GB FAT32

RAM = 1GB
Virtual memory: total paging file size for C: = 1524MB
Hibernation enabled
12% (10694MB) of C: used for System Restore

In restoring the DSR and Media Direct partitions I believe I will need to do the eivalent of booting to DOS from a floppy disk. As I have no floppy drive and will want to write the MBR to my boot media, using my USB flash drive seems the best choice. I have looked into the various methods for doing this and am having little joy. I downloaded the "HP Drive Key Boot Utility" which is supposed to to the business but I get to the stage where it asks for an image file (*.img) to put on the drive and I don't know what file to use. Doesn't help that I don't really understand the boot disk concept. Am I trying to to find the image of something that will interface with the HDD without starting any operating system stuff? That is to say something that will run a DOS interface to the XP kernal? Tempted to ditch the DSR if it meant forgetting all this boot stuff but think I'll need to boot from disk for the Media Direct recovery and I definitely will want this back.

Thanks,

Tom

perhaps a word of caution is in order regarding pmagic. it is a great prgm but not flawless. it has rendered more than one hard drive unuseable.

but there are things you can do to make it easier for pm to do its job, such as:

1. delete all files you don't need.

2. uninstall all prgms you don't (no longer) need/use.

3. delete temporary internet files.

4. defrag.

5. fresh restart right before launching pm.

6. know exactly what you want to do. stop and ask if unsure

7. perform only one operation at a time. in other words, don't que up a bunch of operations and then tell pm to execute them all. take one small step at a time.

8. make a back-up image ahead of time so you can restore if pm trashes your drive.

if you think about it, it will make sense.

i have never had a prob with pm, and have used it many times, but there are plenty of horror stories out there.

i need to put this info on a separate web page, cuz i've written it so many times.

To Rad's list, I'd add chkdsk /f /r

Tom, I'm just thinking how much of your C: drive is taken up by the page file, hibernation file and System Restore. Probably over 3 GB. So 15 GB for your final C: drive should be fine. You can disable System Restore if you like when your recovery points are safe on another HD. I don't use it.

The easiest way to create a bootable USB flash drive is to use a computer with a floppy drive. Plug in your USB stick (containing a few files for identification) and boot to a Win98 floppy. If you don't have one....

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm     (Windows 98 OEM)

At the A: prompt   type C: to change to the USB stick. Type dir to make sure it is the stick. Type A: to return to the floppy. Type sys c:
You should now have a bootable USB flash drive.



If you use the HP app you will need the files from a WinXP startup floppy so harvest these from another computer and put them in a folder in your C: drive. Use this folder in step 5.

1.Install SP27213.exe
2.Run the installed application
3.Select appropriate device, file system (FAT) and volume label
4.Check Create DOS Startup Disc and then click sub option of "Using Dos System Files Located at"
5.Select the folder you created containing the startup files
6.Click Start



To "fix" the HPA partition you just need to boot from a CD. No floppy needed. I'm pretty sure you don't need a floppy to fix DSR either. Your decision, but I delete that partition. With the ability to create Ghost images, I can't see its value. I suggest leaving it there for the time being until you decide. It's easy to delete later if you change your mind.

HPA fix


Do you have an i386 folder in your C: drive? How large?

Correction:   i386 folder in the root of the C: drive.

[glb]7. perform only one operation at a time. in other words, don't que up a bunch of operations and then tell pm to execute them all. take one small step at a time ::)[/glb]

Tom,

HP Windows Format Utility for USB Drive Key

ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/softpaq/sp27001-27500/SP27213.exe

This may be different from the one you have.

OK guys, just waiting for PM and Ghost 10 to arrive and I can get busy.

Been thinking about the My Documents move (after doing the Ghost backups). This folder I want to reside entirely on my new D: data partition. I'm thinking the plan is (only interested in the My Docs stuff here, I accept there are many steps/checks related to other stuff, notably the partioning (thanks Rad)):

1. Back up My Documents folder to the external HDD
2. Delete entire contents of My Docs
3. Do partition stuff
4. Right-click My Docs folder on C: and select Move and place on D:
5. Copy contents of My Docs from ext. HDD to D:\My Documents

At the moment I have just an Windows Backup File of the My Docs folder (a *.bkf file). Can I be 100% sure this can be restored to the new D drive ?

Continued thanks and appreciation,

Tom

Tom, when you have My Documents data on both HDs you can delete the .bkf.

Christer has written a very helpful guide about moving special folders off the C: drive. You could consider this when all the hard work has been done.

http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=49222

Quote:

... when you have My Documents data on both HDs you can delete the .bkf.

You're saying i want a full literal copy of My Docs on the HDD irrespective of the .bkf file? The .bkf on it's own is insufficient (for My Docs)?

oh yeah, and the C:\i386 folder is 1.11GB.

That's how I'd backup the data drive. Have a mirrored copy of all files that are in your data drive, stored on the external HD. It's nice to be able to see the actual backup files rather than see a single file such as .bkf. So if your laptop HD fails you have everything stored on the external HD ready to be restored to a new HD in the laptop.

I use Second Copy 7 to do this. All done on a scheduled basis.

http://www.centered.com/download.html

EZBack-it-up is a good freeware alternative.

http://www.rdcomp.net/ezbackitup/index.php

With these apps you can exclude files that you don't need to have backed up. A daily backup of 50 GB takes 2-3 minutes depending on how many new files you have added.

tommy_tank wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2006 at 4:59pm:

oh yeah, and the C:\i386 folder is 1.11GB.

C:\i386 folder isn't really necessary and I delete it a few months after I receive a new Dell computer. When I'm convinced that it isn't being used. It seems part of the way Dell install WinXP. I think they leave it so you won't be asked to insert the WinXP CD to do something, but I've never been asked to insert the CD.

I suggest moving it off the C: drive to the external HD when you move the contents of My Documents. That will make the C: drive image smaller when you run Ghost because your Used Space is less . When you copy My Documents to your new data drive, copy i386 to the data drive as well. If it's not in the C: drive it doesn't become part of your Ghost images. In a few months, if you are like me, you can delete it.

Cool.

Dan Goodell reckons you have to boot into DOS mode (boot disk equivalent) to run dsrfix and I'm having issues with the bootable USB flash drive so gonna ditch the DSR partition. Makes sense as I will have better images on my ext. HDD but you know how it is, until you've see it working you are nervous. Anyway, you give me confidence so I'll happily use the space it gives up. Is it as simple as using Disk Management or Partition Magic to delete the partition then get the D: logical volume (when I create it) to fill the space?

tommy_tank wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2006 at 6:22pm:

but you know how it is, until you've see it working you are nervous.

I certainly do.

We'll give you detailed instruction for the PM stage. You will finish up with the Dell Utility partition, the OS, the data partition and the HPA which you can't see.

Ghost 10 & Partition Magic have arrived so I am busying myself with Ghost recovery points before the partitioning work begins and I risk something nasty happening to my hard drive.

As Brian has kindly offered that the Forum will give me "detailed instruction for the PM stage" I shall stop short of the partitioning business but will read up on things anyway should I need to go it alone.

Tom

Tom, things are starting to happen. I didn’t ask the drive letter of your CD/DVD drive. To avoid potential drive letter conflicts in the future, in Disk Management I suggest you change it to Y: drive. Before using Partition Magic follow Rad’s list and also use chkdsk. Disconnect your USB external HD.

Boot to the Partition Magic CD (PM doesn’t need to be installed at this stage). You will see three rectangles. Light green, pink and dark green, representing your three partitions. If you make a mistake at any stage click General, Discard All Changes (for that stage) or simply Exit PM and start again.

Right click in the dark green DSR rectangle and click Delete. OK, Apply. When it’s finished…

Right click in the pink WinXP rectangle and click Resize/Move. In the New Size field type 15100 then use the up/down arrows to adjust the value to around 15000 or whatever C: drive size you desire. You won’t get it exactly 15000. You will now see Free Space Before = 0.0, New Size = (around) 15000, Free Space After= (my guess) 77000. Click OK, Apply. When it’s finished…

Right click in the 77000 MB Unallocated Space rectangle and click Create, Create as Logical Partition, Partition Type NTFS and Label DATA. Don’t worry about the Drive Letter: None (with NTFS choice). Leave Size, Cluster Size and NTFS Version alone. Click OK, Apply. When it’s finished…

Click Exit, remove the CD and boot to Windows. You should be happy with your result.

OK, some good news and some bad news - well for me anyway. All instructions followed, notably the chkdsk \f \r. Looking back the only differences were that I installed Partition Magic and rebooted rather than just use the disk, and also the partition I deleted (the DSR) was a yellow not dark green rectangle, but I knew it was the right one. So the bad news is PM produced an error and when I exited I couldn't start Windows. And the good news is Ghost did its job and restored my C drive from external HDD perfectly and I'm back in and all looks good. So here's what happened:

1. I boot to PM and delete DSR partition. OK - Apply
2. All looking good I select to resize C:
3. I put in new size and OK - Apply
4. Can't remember exactly how far it got, at least 25% and then said:


Code:

Error #1552 The requested FRS entry is unused (free)

5. I exited and restarted the PC
6. Windows error saying the starting of Windows has been stopped for the safety of the system
7. Repeat 5 & 6
8. I boot to Ghost recovery CD and restore computer from C image (recovery point) held on ext. HDD

I Googled the error and people say a chkdsk \f sorts it out but I did that. I am doing it again now and unless I get any sage advice to the contrary from the forum I'll have another go tomorrow.

Despite the PM gremlin I'm pretty pleased about the recovery. Something of a forum triumph I think.

Tom

tommy_tank wrote on Nov 26^th, 2006 at 6:19pm:

Despite the PM gremlin I'm pretty pleased about the recovery. Something of a forum triumph I think.

Tom, you have gained a lot of experience in a short time. Having that image was a life saver.

PM from DOS is regarded as safer than running it from Windows. I hope the current run is trouble free.

I've tried to shrink C: in PM 3 times now, with the same 1552 FRS entry error each time, last time almost immediately after clicking Apply. I can't help feeling something fundamental is wrong. I have looked for anyone saying partitioning C: in a Dell Inspiron 9400 is impossible and can find nothing. chkdsk /f or /f /r doesn't help (unless I need to do it without rebooting before running PM but can't seem to move to the c drive at the PM DOS prompt).

Something that is interesting is in the XP defrag tool the C: has 2 small file stripes labeled "Unmovable files" that are a both well into an area of the disk that would become the new drive.

Also, when I am about to resize in PM the Information box says: "This partition crosses the 1024 cylinder boundary and may not be bootable".

For my PM preferences I have left Skip Bad Sector Checks unchecked. Maybe it's worth trying with this on.

Finally, in DOS-PM you get the list of drives in the main window with the bar representation above. The PM user guide says than only hidden, "partitions with file systems not supported by the active operating system", extended and unallocated drives are marked with an asterisk, yet my C: has an asterisk rather than "C:", yet is listed as Primary and Active. Probably nothing but you never know.

Something I forgot to mention before: throughout all attempts I have had XP's System Restore turned off as I read somewhere PM prefers/needs this.

If no one has any bright ideas here, anyone know a good forum I can go to for PM issues?

Thanks,

Tom

El_Pescador wrote on Nov 21^st, 2006 at 8:20pm:

[glb]EXPIRES COB 11/22/2006: Norton Ghost 10.0 Retail Box with Norton Ghost 2003 CD included inside as lagniappe :o[/glb] CLICK HERE to view FREE offer on retail boxed Norton Ghost 10.0 in banner above - after $60 in MIRs. CLICK HERE to download $40 MIR form. CLICK HERE to download $20 MIR upgrade form. EP :'(

EP.....

I bought the whole Symantec deal from Fry's you listed in June and sent in the rebates by priority mail with delivery confirmation and have yet to receive any money. So to Tommy I would be leery about the rebates. I triple checked all info and had my wife also check everything and of course I copied everything to make sure it was as they requested and still nothing. It may just be me, but I will think twice before doing ANY rebates in the future. My total was close to $100 so that kinda makes you wonder. Just my .02

Harold

kaletonto wrote on Nov 28^th, 2006 at 7:01pm:

Sorry about this, I made the post before reading the whole thread.

Tom, the observations you describe in PM, apart from the error, are normal. I hope someone has a workaround. Maybe it could work by doing it piecemeal. Could you try shrinking C: drive by 5000 MB and if that works then shrink by another 5000 MB etc. Until you hit a wall. At least it will tell you how far you can go without an error.

Do you have to restore the recovery point after each error?

kaletonto wrote on Nov 28^th, 2006 at 7:01pm:

"... I bought the whole Symantec deal from Fry's you listed in June and sent in the rebates by priority mail with delivery confirmation and have yet to receive any money. So to Tommy I would be leery about the rebates. I triple checked all info and had my wife also check everything and of course I copied everything to make sure it was as they requested and still nothing. It may just be me, but I will think twice before doing ANY rebates in the future. My total was close to $100 so that kinda makes you wonder. Just my .02..."

My experience has been the absolute opposite of yours.  Check your Private Messages.

EP

A few updates just to round things off. Trying to shrink the C volume piecemeal produces errors also. As Brian suggested, I just tried to shrink it by 5GB and soon got an error. This one was different from the usual ones and said:


Quote:

Error #1517 Required file attribute missing

Each time I attempt to partition C and get any sort of error the OS becomes inoperable and I need to recover using Ghost.

As with the last error I can find no better advice on it than running chkdsk. I am resigned to the fact that Partition Magic will not work for me (although I have written to Symantec so they may be able to advise something, though I'll be surprised). After all the time and problems I've had I am struggling to find the motivation to embark on attempting to use another partition application. Think I'll have to just be content with what I have.

Thanks for everyone's help. All the best,

Tom

I am having problems receiving my Symantec rebate because I purchased at frys.com, just a heads up for you...I purchased Symantec products from frys.com BECAUSE of the rebates, but Symantec said the "place of purchase" is invalid...meaning they will not honor items purchased from frys.com...
Then why is frys.com purposefully advertising the prices after rebate and putting links to download the rebate forms???
I am trying to get this resolved because I have spent a lot of $$ at fry.com in the past month...lets see how they plan to resolve this issue.
 I sat ON HOLD with frys.com for 1/2 hours today, only to be disconnected...I am now on hold with them AGAIN as I type.
 This does not look good on frys.com's behalf. Buyer beware.

Wanted to give you an update on the situation concerning rebates btwn Symantec and frys.com
Symantec IS accaepting their rebates BUT for some reson their computer generated stuff has it spitting out INVALID PURCHASE LOCATION (I was told specifically by Richie badge #es0096--this is because frys.com is new, and used to be outpost.com, and this is the reason for the conflict--this is what the customer service rep at symantec said VERBATIM). He DID VALIDATE my rebate...the NEW PROBLEM---It had to be REGENERATED--And will take an ADDITIONAL 4-6 weeks...meaning no rebate before Xmas...and it has already been 6 full weeks...I strongly suggest that IF you receive the tracking postcard or online info that you purchased at an "invalid location" that you DEFINATELY call them. Symantec will fix the problem, but you WILL have to wait for an entirely new "regeneration" time of 4-6 weeks...
The phone # for Symantec rebates is 1-866-206-8800 for those of you experiencing problems getting your rebates.
As far as the customer service at Symantec, they were very helpful and very fast, hold time was less than 5 minutes.
I will repost here when/if I receive more info, or my actual rebate from Symantec, letting you all know if I actually do receive or if I have more problems.
  This is an issue to consider because many people make purchases based on rebates--for me, I purchased in October, certain products for Xmas gifts, figuring I'd used my rebates gift cards and checks to purchase additional Xmas gifts in December...because I SHOULD have recieved my rebates this week...but not for the technical error on Symantecs part. Note, the error IS NOT based on anything concerning frys.com, it is Symantec. So, being that my money is tied up with Symantec, and my credit cards are maxed from the products I purchased due to rebates...I am broke and without my rebate $$ to purchase the rest of my xmas gifts...live and learn...I was not trying to be cheap...I was trying to get the biggest "bang" for my buck...and give some really awesome gifts that I normally would not be able to afford to give if not for the rebates...but now, xmas is gonna be tighter than ever...

I still, despite my best efforts and several calls to frys.com was not able to speak to a human being, and had been disconnected several times after very long holding times...

Here is an update to my Symantec rebate coming back as "Invalid Purchase Location"
The problem is on Symantec's end, NOT frys.com.
Symantecs automatic generation system is spitting out postcards to consumers stating that they "could not honor request due to Invalid Purchase location" for frys.com purchases AND outpost.com purchases. The customer service rep at symantec said this should not be happening, and that he "Re-Validated" my rebate...Meaning I will receive my rebate, but not for another 4-6 weeks because it has to be REGENERATED...Sucks, as I made these purchases in October as Xmas gifts, with the sole intention of using the visa gift card to purchase other items in December for Xmas gifts as well. I thought I had a really good and executable plan, getting the biggest "bang" for my bucks...Well, IF it would've worked, it would've been great, but now, at best, I will receive my rebates mid January, so the purchases I planned to make with all of my Symantec rebates are not gonna get made cuz that is where my $$ is tied up.
Again, the problem is not frys.com, it is Symantec.
Symantec's resubmissions phone # is 1-866-206-8800  for those of you experiencing problems with your rebates.
They will validate rebates purchased at frys.com, but you MUST call and give your tracking number and such.
And you MUST WAIT an additional 4-6 weeks.
Shame on Symantec!!!  They are supposed to have it together...I should not have to wait for it to "regenerate", it was their mistake in the 1st place. Symantec should, of all companies have measures in place to avoid this, or to fix a conflict to the CUSTOMER's SATISFACTION.
I will post back when and IF I actually receive the rebate, or if I have additional problems concerning Symantec.

Call this phone # 1-866-206-8516--this is Symantecs Rebate center.

wrote on Dec 4^th, 2006 at 3:19pm:

"... I am having problems receiving my Symantec rebate because I purchased at frys.com, just a heads up for you..."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/El_Pescador/NIS2007reb.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/El_Pescador/NIS2007upg.jpg

tommy_tank wrote on Dec 4^th, 2006 at 2:59pm:

Each time I attempt to partition C and get any sort of error the OS becomes inoperable and I need to recover using Ghost.

Tom, I realise you are probably sick of partitioning at present but would you like to try something different? From the PM discs, delete the WinXP partition, apply, OK. Then create a primary partition 10 GB smaller than the original. So you will have 10 GB of unallocated space after the partition. Now try restoring your image to this smaller primary partition. If it doesn't work then delete the partition, create a full size primary partition and restore your image as before.

Could you let us know what happens? If it works it could hold promise for further changes.

Brian, thanks for the continued assistance. As you may suspect, I have little faith in Partition Magic. If I were to delete the C (XP) partition and then could not create a new one in PM (of whatever size) then wouldn't I be in quite a lot of trouble? I have the full "disk to image" Ghost 8.3 file on external HDD but I don't really want to use this as I'll lose the Dell MediaDirect HPA partition and therefore have to do all the work to partition, reinstall it, fix the MBR etc.

Tom, I understand your frustration with PM and it's even worse because none of us have seen that error and we can't help. It's possible that deleting and recreating the partition will fix the problem but I'm guessing.

As far as restoring your Ghost 10 image, it will restore to Unallocated Space or to a partition. It doesn't matter. So I don't think that deleting the partition will put you in a worse situation than what you have been through, multiple times. Deleting the partition is what I would have done after the first failure. It seems a drastic step but it's not. We know your backup image is good.

OK, more fun with PM & Ghost 10. Here's what happened:

1. chkdsk /f
2. Boot to PM, delete C volume
3. Create new volume 75GB
i. Labelled it "OS"
ii. NTFS type
iii. Left as "Default" cluster size
iv. Some other selection i made Windows XP (3.1 somthing), not sure what it was
v. Left 18GB unallocated (12GB of old C and 5GB old Dell Restore Partition)
4. Made OS partition Primary
5. Made OS partition Active - this required reboot

# all error free so far

6. Booted to Ghost 10 and recovered
7. Got 99% complete then got the following error in the Ghost 10 Recover My Computer wizard:


Quote:

Info 60BB0031: Partitions ending past cylinder 1024 may not be bootable. Error EA 390610: The requested FRS entry is unused (free,0).

8. Did Norton disk diagnose in Ghost and no errors found on OS
9. Restart
10. Windows won't boot. Said something couldn't be found
11. Back into PM, and unallocated partition had an unused size of about 76GB which was strange. Checked properties and had many errors. Forced to hard reboot
12. Back to PM and delete C. Then create OS as before but made 87GB, the original size
13. Make Primary and Active
14. Start Ghost and select recovery point. Select Express as usual and Ghost says:


Quote:

Cannot complete Express recovery operation. Click Yes to do a custom recovery of the same recovery point.

15. Click Yes, follow steps and recovers successfully
16. Back into PM and try to resize C to 17GB. Same old FRS entry error
17. Recover with Ghost

So, do you think I should give up now? Just don't think it's meant to be. Not that I believe in that sort of thing.

Tom

tommy_tank wrote on Dec 5^th, 2006 at 5:49pm:

So, do you think I should give up now? Just don't think it's meant to be. Not that I believe in that sort of thing.

Tom, I think you have done ten times more than the average person would have attempted and it's sad that you didn't succeed. I wish I knew the answer. At least you are an accomplished Ghost 10 user so some good has been done.

I wonder if Rad could ask Dan Goodell whether he has any comments?