I did chkdsk /r on 80GB hd which XP did at startup. Afterwards I noticed that there were several problems. My ZoneAlarm gave a security error and I was not able to get to the net. I then tried to reboot the computer and was given the following error:
"c000021a unknown hard error" with the infamous BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH. Had to shut of the computer with on/off button.  Does anyone know what this error is? Is this error related to the HD? Does hard error refer to the type of system error or the hard drive?

I did notice when doing help in dos command that chkdsk give options of  /F /R etc. All are capitalized but when one uses capitals it states that it does not recognize the option. I finally figured out it would recognize it if done in lower case. What a trip! If the options are case sensitive then they should be shown in the proper case I think.

Anyway, does this sound as though it might be related to the chkdisk issue. This is the HD that I cloned off of the original 40GB HD Dell installed.

The c000021a seems to have several possible causes.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=c000021a

If one of your disk sectors was bad or corrupted, it would depend upon what application was using that bad sector.

Did the chkdsk x: /r complete normally?  You can find the results of the boot time chkdsk in the xp Event Log.  Look for a application Winlogon entry.

Ghost4Me,
 I got this error when I was rebooting the computer and in shutdown.  While it was trying to shutdown it was unable to shutdown XPeventlog. The file was not responding. After several attempts to shut it down I went ahead and manually shut the machine down. Then when I rebooted everything came up normally without incidence.
  I have also noticed another problem and wonder if the two are related. I have been attempting to do a NG10 backup. It was supposed to take 2 hours on my USB2 HD. It is at least 3 hours past the deadline now and everytime I look at the remaining time it has gone up from 13 minutes left to 26 minutes left after 3 hours. Drives "C", "F" have been backup but drive "N" appears to be stuck. Maybe this is the HD error you were mentioning.
  I did do chkdsk on all drives and all passed. Partition Magic also said partions were ok.

What is the configuration of your computer?  For example, you have 2 internal IDE drives.  Drive1 (C NTFS partition and F NTFS partition), Drive 2 (N NTFS partition), one external USB2 500gb drive, ntfs.

Run the partinNT.exe program from the Partition Magic folder and copy the contents of the output to the clipboard and post here.

I would create 3 separate Ghost 10 definitions.  One for each backup.  That way you can back up the partitions separately.

===========================================================================================================
Disk Geometry Information for Disk 1:    9729 Cylinders,  255 Heads,  63 Sectors/Track
System              PartSect  # Boot BCyl Head Sect  FS    ECyl Head Sect    StartSect     NumSects
===========================================================================================================
DellUtility                0  0  00     0    1    1  DE       3  254   63           63       64,197
                          0  1  80     4    0    1  07    1023  254   63       64,260  149,083,200
Info: End C,H,S values were large drive placeholders.
 Actual values are:
       0  1  80      4    0    1  07   9283  254   63     64260 149083200
                          0  2  00  1023    0    1  DB    1023  254   63  149,147,460    7,132,860
Info: Begin C,H,S values were large drive placeholders.
Info: End C,H,S values were large drive placeholders.
 Actual values are:
       0  2  00   9284    0    1  DB   9727  254   63 149147460   7132860

===========================================================================================================
Disk Geometry Information for Disk 2:    2498 Cylinders,  255 Heads,  63 Sectors/Track
System              PartSect  # Boot BCyl Head Sect  FS    ECyl Head Sect    StartSect     NumSects
===========================================================================================================
SWAPSPACE2                 0  0  00     0    1    1  82     261  254   63           63    4,208,967
                          0  1  00   262    0    1  83    1023  254   63    4,209,030   14,795,865
Info: End C,H,S values were large drive placeholders.
 Actual values are:
       0  1  00    262    0    1  83   1182  254   63   4209030  14795865
                          0  2  00  1023  254   63  83    1023  254   63   19,004,895   21,125,475
Info: Begin C,H,S values were large drive placeholders.
Info: End C,H,S values were large drive placeholders.
 Actual values are:
       0  2  00   1183    0    1  83   2497  254   63  19004895  21125475

===========================================================================================================
Disk Geometry Information for Disk 3:    3649 Cylinders,  255 Heads,  63 Sectors/Track
Info: Disk Manager is installed on this drive.
System              PartSect  # Boot BCyl Head Sect  FS    ECyl Head Sect    StartSect     NumSects
===========================================================================================================
                          0  0  80     0    1    1  0C    1023  254   63           63   37,351,062
Info: Begin C,H,S values were large drive placeholders.
Info: End C,H,S values were large drive placeholders.
 Actual values are:
       0  0  80      0    1    1  0C   2324  254   63        63  37351062
                          0  1  00  1023    0    1  0F    1023  254   63   37,351,125   21,270,060
Info: Begin C,H,S values were large drive placeholders.
Info: End C,H,S values were large drive placeholders.
 Actual values are:
       0  1  00   2325    0    1  0F   3648  254   63  37351125  21270060
DATA1             37,351,125  0  00  1023    1    1  0B    1023  254   63   37,351,188   21,269,997
Info: Begin C,H,S values were large drive placeholders.
Info: End C,H,S values were large drive placeholders.
 Actual values are:
37351125  0  00   2325    1    1  0B   3648  254   63  37351188  21269997

===========================================================================================================
Disk Geometry Information for Disk 4:    60802 Cylinders,  255 Heads,  63 Sectors/Track
System              PartSect  # Boot BCyl Head Sect  FS    ECyl Head Sect    StartSect     NumSects
===========================================================================================================
                          0  0  00     0    1    1  07    1023  254   63           63  976,784,067
Info: End C,H,S values were large drive placeholders.
 Actual values are:
       0  0  00      0    1    1  07  60801  254   63        63 976784067



===========================================================================================================
Partition Information for Disk 1:    76,316.6 Megabytes
Volume         PartType    Status    Size MB    PartSect  #   StartSect  TotalSects
===========================================================================================================
*:DellUtility  Dell        Pri          31.3           0  0          63      64,197
C:             NTFS        Pri,Boot 72,794.5           0  1      64,260 149,083,200
              CP/M, Concurrent DOS, CTOSPri       3,482.8           0  2 149,147,460   7,132,860
              Unallocated Pri           7.8        None -- 156,280,320      16,065


===========================================================================================================
Partition Information for Disk 2:    19,594.9 Megabytes
Volume         PartType    Status    Size MB    PartSect  #   StartSect  TotalSects
===========================================================================================================
*:SWAPSPACE2   Linux Swap  Pri       2,055.2           0  0          63   4,208,967
              Linux Ext2  Pri       7,224.5           0  1   4,209,030  14,795,865
              Linux Ext2  Pri      10,315.2           0  2  19,004,895  21,125,475


===========================================================================================================
Partition Information for Disk 3:    28,623.6 Megabytes
Volume         PartType    Status    Size MB    PartSect  #   StartSect  TotalSects
===========================================================================================================
F:             FAT32X      Pri,Boot 18,237.8           0  0          63  37,351,062
              ExtendedX   Pri      10,385.8           0  1  37,351,125  21,270,060
              EPBR        Log      10,385.8        None --  37,351,125  21,270,060
N:DATA1        FAT32       Log      10,385.7  37,351,125  0  37,351,188  21,269,997


===========================================================================================================
Partition Information for Disk 4:    476,945.4 Megabytes
Volume         PartType    Status    Size MB    PartSect  #   StartSect  TotalSects
===========================================================================================================
G:             NTFS        Pri      476,945.3           0  0          63 976,784,067

Ghost4Me,

I also came to the conclusion that I would need to do seperate backups for each hd with NG10. It appeared to hang on drive N: at 89% completed and stayed there for hours. I tried to cancel and it didn't appear to do so. Finally I closed the window. It appeared that drives C & F got completely backed up but N didn't complete for whatever reason. Chkdsk /r were just fine.

Disk F:

Volume Serial Number is 17EE-2827
Windows is verifying files and folders...
File and folder verification is complete.
Windows is verifying free space...
Free space verification is complete.
Windows has checked the file system and found no problems.
  18,639,104 KB total disk space.
       2,228 KB in 34 hidden files.
       2,016 KB in 481 folders.
  10,614,308 KB in 2,581 files.
         128 KB in bad sectors.
   8,020,420 KB are available.

       4,096 bytes in each allocation unit.
   4,659,776 total allocation units on disk.
   2,005,105 allocation units available on disk.


C:\Documents and Settings\Henry>chkdsk N: /r
The type of the file system is FAT32.
Volume DATA1 created 9/23/2006 1:55 PM
Volume Serial Number is 4515-3CBB
Windows is verifying files and folders...
File and folder verification is complete.
Windows is verifying free space...
Free space verification is complete.
Windows has checked the file system and found no problems.
  10,624,600 KB total disk space.
         192 KB in 10 hidden files.
         144 KB in 18 folders.
   6,791,760 KB in 82 files.
   3,832,496 KB are available.

       8,192 bytes in each allocation unit.
   1,328,075 total allocation units on disk.
     479,062 allocation units available on disk.

Ghost4Me,

Here is my configuration:

Disk1   C:    80GB    NTFS     internal
Disk2          20GB    ReiserFS   internal
Disk3   F:    18GB    FAT32     FW400
         N:    10GB    FAT32     FW400
Disk4  G:   500GB    NTFS       USB2

Disk2 is for Suse Linux and not acknowledged by Windows.

Had to divide your answers into several posts to accomodate length restrictions. Still did not give all of info on partinfo.

That clarifies your configuration.  I didn't realize you were backing up from firewire to usb2.

Summary:  your c: NTFS internal drive backs up fine, and your f: fat32 firewire partition backs up fine, but the n: fat32 extended firewire partition doesn't.

I would concentrate on what is going on with the firewire issues if any and Dell bios updates (search Dell website).

First though, if it were my pc, I would try to cleanup Disk3:  

** First try a Ghost 10 backup of just n, then try Ghost 10 backup of just f.

1. See if you can use XP Windows Explorer to make backup copies of f: and n: to your new usb2 drive, such as g:\fat32backup
2. Delete n: partition and delete extended partition.
3. Use Partition Magic to expand f: to full size of firewire drive.  (I assume you want fat32 for some linux reason.  If not change to ntfs.)
4. run chkdsk f: /r
5. Try to take Ghost 10 backup of f:

For your Dell 3000 do you have a separate firewire/usb2 card in the pc or did it come that way?  

Basically what happened I believe is that during the heavy i/o load from usb2 to firewire there was some data recovery error.  There are other threads of usb2 failing on some motherboards under heavy i/o loads, which is basically the case here when Ghost image backup is running.  Same can apply to firewire.

So, verify that you have the latest Dell BIOS (if not update) for your Dell Dimension 3000 and the latest software/firmware for your firewire drive.

Bottom line, I think you are getting closer as to what the problem(s) are/were.  With your large 500gb usb2 drive now, maybe you don't need your older 28gb fw400 drive.
It's often better to simplify (my opinion).

Ghost4Me,
Originally I had a 40GB C drive with only 10% of free space left. So I decided to add some spare HDs I had laying around to provide more space to install software. That is  how I ended up with the externals. Also I had intended to place my iTunes on an external that I could then take with me and my laptop. So I added the 28Gb and divided it into 2 drives (F, N)  FAT32 to provide either storage for Linux & Windows or even to add Linux for booting. I was still thinking it over. Recently, I added the second internal and made it the Linux hd. Now I can boot either linux or Windows.     With the failure of NG10 on the NAS and Acronis' success and ur input I decided to change my config to backup on USB2 drive. Norton may have failed here and Acronis has just now finished a full backup and verify on all three disks in a single file. I say NG10 may have failed because I still have some doubts but it did not finish like it should have.
 I think your advice is good and I will need to followup on why NG doesn't seem to finish. Maybe it failed during the verify or maybe it didn't finish the image on N:. Backups of F & N are both sceduled today and we will see what happens. FW was added by me.     I should say that previous attempts to backup to G: were FW to FW. It only became USB2 when I installed the 500GB drive from LaCie.
 I will probably move the files over to C: from F: & N: now that I have 40GB of free space. I will probably completely remove all partitions on Drive 3 and store away until needed. So the configuration will only be drives C:, Linux, G:. More than enough space. I need to find a program to move the files; got any suggestions?
 Chkdsk /r  of F: and N: were both provided on my second post today. I have ran it several times without incidence.
  KISS,  Keep It Simple Stupid,  the moto of all good engineers and one I usually try to follow.  
     
 

From what I read on the Dell website, the Dell Dimension 3000 does not have firewire, so I assume you purchased a separate PCI firewire card and put it inside your pc?

Everything else sounds fine now, but verify that you have the latest updates for your card.  Older pc's had more problems with heavy i/o loads with usb2 and firewire than current ones.  If your usb2 and firewire cables are both plugged into the same card, try putting the usb2 in the Dell connection to separate the two.

You don't have Norton GoBack do you?  That was one of the errors mentioned from google.

Yes, the Dell didn't come with firewire and so I added it with a PCI card. I did this because the enclosures I bought had both USB2 and FW400 and I wanted to try FW. I was told that FW didn't load down the CPU like USB did. I now don't believe that that is correct.  The Dell came with USB2. I believe that the PCI card is FW400 only. I will need to stop the system and get back to you on that. I have a lot of other things plugged into USB and maybe I need to look at that also.

The driver for FW is written by M$ and Device Manager says that FW is Texas Instrument OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller. I suppose that means the chip. I would have to pull the card out of the computer to see if I recognize the mfr.

But there is one nagging haunt in the back of my mind. Why does Acronis backup the system to either NAS or USB2 without a hitch and NG10 is having these difficulties? If it is an I/O problem I would think that it would affect both programs the same.

No, I don't have Norton GoBack. This sounds like  Windows rollback.

ollie90680 wrote on Mar 15^th, 2007 at 5:09pm:

I have a lot of other things plugged into USB and maybe I need to look at that also.

One of the first suggestions most techs recommend regarding usb2 debugging is to be sure the device you are having a problem with (in your case 500GB drive) is plugging directly into the pc, and not into a usb2 hub (again simplify).  Since your Dell Dimension 3000 has two usb ports in the front I believe, be sure the 500GB USB2 drive is connected directly to that, or to one in the back.

I've seen some USB2 problems resolved by using a PCI card instead of the motherboard usb2 connection (this may not apply to you, but that is why I suggested checking the Dell BIOS level.)

Regarding the success of TI9/10 vs. Ghost 10, you should do more reading on the TI support website:

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=65

I have used both products, but prefer the reliability of Ghost over True Image.  The methods each uses to backup images is different.  TI has many threads of people who say they backed up their hard drive, verified it, and then found out on restore that the image was corrupt.  Most of the issues tend to point to memory, because as I understand it, TI uses the pc's memory extensively to hold back any disk activity while the hot image backup is occurring.

Ghost uses a different method and doesn't seem to be so memory sensitive.  However, problems with Ghost and problems with True Image failing are usually hardware related.

Not previously mentioned, but I assume (hope) you have all the XP updates installed on your pc.  Norton Ghost is dependent upon that especially .NET.

Does TI backup to your NAS drive in 30 or 45 minutes or 6 hours?

I am anxious to hear how the separate Ghost 10 full independent backup of just your n: drive goes.  Sometimes i/o errors don't occur until after a period of activity.

Also, I'm assuming the c000021a blue screen of death error went away?

I'm not trying to slam True Image, but there are lots of threads like these, and they all concern me:

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=167418

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=163541

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=157384

Are F: and N: the two partitions that you couldn't defrag?  Just wondered if that issue was ever resolved.

How much free space in f: now?  It occurred to me that may be contributing to the Ghost 10 backup problem with that partition.

Ghost4Me,
 I have much to still check on given all of the information that you have given me. It appears that I do have several updates on the Dell that are not yet installed but I have not yet identified as to whether or not the is a bios upgrade. I will be visiting the Dell website again today and reviewing all of the the Dell issues.
 Last night I did a complete update with Acronis and all looked well. I explored drives F & N backups and they looked normal. I did not mount them which maybe I should do.
 I attempted backups of drives N & F on NG10. Drive N went well and I made two backups. Drive F failed twice. Error/Information messages are herein attached. Apparently there is an I/O problem and difficulty reading certain sectors. This does not appear to be a problem with Acronis  or a problem for NG10 on Drive N which is a partition of Disk3. I am intending to  change Disk3  from Firewire to USB2 as it has both interfaces.

Friday, March 16, 20076:32:32 AM
Description: Error EC8F17B7: Cannot create recovery points for job: Recovery point of F:\. Error E7C3000F: Device \\.\SymantecSnapshot1 cannot read 4160 sectors starting at LBA 263888. Error EBAB03F1: The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error.
Details: 0xE7C3000F
Source: Norton Ghost

Friday, March 16, 20072:46:37 AM
Description: Info 6C8F0437: A scheduled base recovery point of N:\ completed successfully.
Details:
Source: Norton Ghost

Friday, March 16, 200712:44:58 AM
Description: Error EC8F17B7: Cannot create recovery points for job: Recovery point of F:\. Error E7C3000F: Device \\.\SymantecSnapshot1 cannot read 4160 sectors starting at LBA 263888. Error EBAB03F1: The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error.
Details: 0xE7C3000F
Source: Norton Ghost

Friday, March 16, 200712:20:51 AM
Description: Info 6C8F0434: A manual base recovery point of N:\ completed successfully.
Details:
Source: Norton Ghost

Quote:

Friday, March 16, 20076:32:32 AM Description: Error EC8F17B7: Cannot create recovery points for job: Recovery point of F:\. Error E7C3000F: Device \\.\SymantecSnapshot1 cannot read 4160 sectors starting at LBA 263888. Error EBAB03F1: The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error. Details: 0xE7C3000F Source: Norton Ghost

How much of the F: 18gb partition is used?

I think Ghost ran out of room on F: during the backup process.  Can you move a couple of the larger folders and/or files off of F:, defrag it, chkdsk f: /r and try again?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=E7C3000F

This occurred, I believe, because the hard drive ran out of space, thus causing the error.
http://forums.scotsnewsletter.com/lofiversion/index.php/t11104.html

Ghost4Me,
 I haven't seen the Blue Screen of Death since I first reported to you that it occurred when shutting down the computer. Dell powered up ok and nary another sign. Don't you just love computers?
 I have looked at the USB configuration. I have a self-powered USB2 hub which has the CX4200 printer/scanner plugged into it, plus floppy, plus card reader, and is plugged into port1 USB2. Drive G: 500GB is plugged into port3. Each USB cable only uses one port of dual ports. Should I place the 2 HD's on the same pair of USB2 ports???, when I change Disk3 from FW to USB2?
 I don't remember there being a problem with defragging drive F and N. Did I mention this?  Anyway this am Analysis of F & N was kind of strange. F said it didnt' need to be defragged and N said it needed to be.  Attempts to defrag N showed little change but completed with "some files could not be defragged". I am currently engaged in defragging F. We will see how it turns out.

Drive N: Before Defrag

Volume DATA1 (N:)
   Volume size                                = 10.13 GB
   Cluster size                               = 8 KB
   Used space                                 = 6.48 GB
   Free space                                 = 3.65 GB
   Percent free space                         = 36 %

Volume fragmentation
   Total fragmentation                        = 27 %
   File fragmentation                         = 55 %
   Free space fragmentation                   = 0 %

File fragmentation
   Total files                                = 92
   Average file size                          = 72 MB
   Total fragmented files                     = 1
   Total excess fragments                     = 2
   Average fragments per file                 = 1.02

Pagefile fragmentation
   Pagefile size                              = 0 bytes
   Total fragments                            = 0

Folder fragmentation
   Total folders                              = 21
   Fragmented folders                         = 1
   Excess folder fragments                    = 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fragments       File Size       Most fragmented files
3               3.61 GB         \Downloads\Suse\openSUSE-10.2-GM-DVD-i386.iso



After Defrag:

Volume DATA1 (N:)
   Volume size                                = 10.13 GB
   Cluster size                               = 8 KB
   Used space                                 = 6.48 GB
   Free space                                 = 3.65 GB
   Percent free space                         = 36 %

Volume fragmentation
   Total fragmentation                        = 27 %
   File fragmentation                         = 55 %
   Free space fragmentation                   = 0 %

File fragmentation
   Total files                                = 92
   Average file size                          = 72 MB
   Total fragmented files                     = 1
   Total excess fragments                     = 2
   Average fragments per file                 = 1.02

Pagefile fragmentation
   Pagefile size                              = 0 bytes
   Total fragments                            = 0

Folder fragmentation
   Total folders                              = 21
   Fragmented folders                         = 1
   Excess folder fragments                    = 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fragments       File Size       Files that cannot be defragmented
3               3.61 GB         \Downloads\Suse\openSUSE-10.2-GM-DVD-i386.iso

Well Ok that now makes sense. It cannot defrag an ISO.

Guess I need to clean up Drives F & N:

Drive F is a 17.7GB drive with 7.64GB free.

Drive F is now, after removal of several GBs, 13.3GB free.

Failed to backup drive. Still connected FW.

C:\Documents and Settings\Henry>chkdsk F: /r
The type of the file system is FAT32.

Chkdsk cannot run because the volume is in use by ano
process.  Chkdsk may run if this volume is dismounted
ALL OPENED HANDLES TO THIS VOLUME WOULD THEN BE INVAL
Would you like to force a dismount on this volume? (Y
Volume dismounted.  All opened handles to this volume
Volume Serial Number is 17EE-2827
Windows is verifying files and folders...
File and folder verification is complete.
Windows is verifying free space...
Free space verification is complete.
Windows has checked the file system and found no prob
  18,639,104 KB total disk space.
         804 KB in 15 hidden files.
       1,696 KB in 402 folders.
   4,612,004 KB in 2,081 files.
         128 KB in bad sectors.
  14,024,468 KB are available.

       4,096 bytes in each allocation unit.
   4,659,776 total allocation units on disk.
   3,506,117 allocation units available on disk.

Volume (F:)
   Volume size                                = 17.78 GB
   Cluster size                               = 4 KB
   Used space                                 = 4.40 GB
   Free space                                 = 13.37 GB
   Percent free space                         = 75 %

Volume fragmentation
   Total fragmentation                        = 0 %
   File fragmentation                         = 0 %
   Free space fragmentation                   = 0 %

File fragmentation
   Total files                                = 2,087
   Average file size                          = 2 MB
   Total fragmented files                     = 1
   Total excess fragments                     = 1
   Average fragments per file                 = 1.00

Pagefile fragmentation
   Pagefile size                              = 0 bytes
   Total fragments                            = 0

Folder fragmentation
   Total folders                              = 404
   Fragmented folders                         = 7
   Excess folder fragments                    = 21

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fragments       File Size       Most fragmented files
2               20 KB           \System Volume Information\_restore{202550A8-7A33-4BCA-9586-051D24DDBF8F}\RP631\CHANGE.LOG
2               8 KB            \Programs\2.0\BIN
2               8 KB            \Programs\GIMP-2.0\SHARE\GIMP\2.0\BRUSHES
3               12 KB           \Programs\GIMP-2.0\SHARE\GIMP\2.0\gradients
2               8 KB            \Programs\GIMP-2.0\SHARE\GIMP\2.0\PATTERNS
3               16 KB           \Programs\GIMP-2.0\SHARE\GIMP\2.0\SCRIPTS
12              48 KB           \Programs\GIMP-2.0\SHARE\GIMP\2.0\THEMES\Default\IMAGES
4               16 KB           \Programs\GIMP-2.0\LIB\GIMP\2.0\PLUG-INS

I have several programs installed on F including NG. Do you think that there is some sort of interaction here. None of the USB or FW conflicts makes sense. I had to dismount F to run chkdsk. Any thoughts?

ollie90680 wrote on Mar 16^th, 2007 at 1:51pm:

Drive F is now, after removal of several GBs, 13.3GB free. Failed to backup drive. Still connected FW. I have several programs installed on F including NG. Do you think that there is some sort of interaction here. None of the USB or FW conflicts makes sense. I had to dismount F to run chkdsk. Any thoughts?

You are really patient.  It is hard to visualize everything.

But, first you should uninstall Norton Ghost from F: and then reboot and install it on c: drive.  After installing it run the liveupdate; there may be an update for NG 10, I can't remember.

Anytime you run chkdsk and it asks you to dismount a drive because it is in use, you should say no.  Then reply yes to next question which is do you want it to run at the next startup.  Then reboot.

Definitely remove the possible problem of the Ghost program running off of a firewire drive.

According to the Dell website, you should have 4 USB2 connectors in the back of your pc.  Connect the 500gb usb2 drive to the usb2 port in back of the pc.  You shouldn't use a hub for hard drive in my opinion.

Can you change the firewire to usb2?  I want' clear on that.  If you have the option of connecting that external unit either way, then change from firewire cable to usb2 cable.  Connect to usb2 port in back of your pc.

It seems now the problem is isolated to reading from the firewire F: drive.  That plus the fact that Ghost was also on that drive, which we now know, could be the problem.

Good luck.  Long struggle here.  Getting closer I think.

I'm patient, what about you? I'm an old electronics troubleshooter from way back. At least this is not one of those here today and gone tomorrow and back the day after. It is persistant. The Blue Screen of Death may be that though.

ok, I can uninstall and reinstall NG10 but I was hoping that maybe I could just move the files. I guess it is cleaner to just do as you suggest.

I ran the check disk yesterday both ways and it was the same. No problemo.

Drive G is connected to the USB2 port on the back of the Dell. All other USB devices are connected to the self-powered hub which is not connected to the same USB pair as Drive G.

I can and will replace FW cabling with USB cabling but I believe after much thought that if that had been a problem it would have shown up on Drive N also since both are part of Disk3. Therefore I am leaning more to some sort of interaction between handlers on Drive F for installed programs. When I brought F up in Suse I noticed that iosys and msdos were both present on the drive.  I think these may be the problem.

I will get back to you after I have uninstalled all programs off of drive F and reinstalled them. Also after changing interface of Drive F to USB2.

Question: If I have backed up files on one drive and wish to reinstall them on drive C can I do so. Will all references in the Registry be correct?

Quote:

ok, I can uninstall and reinstall NG10 but I was hoping that maybe I could just move the files.

You can't move the files.  NG10 must be uninstalled, then reinstalled on c: or else registry and other pointers would be wrong.


Quote:

Question: If I have backed up files on one drive and wish to reinstall them on drive C can I do so. Will all references in the Registry be correct?

No.  If you have data files (such as music, video, documents, etc.) you can use Windows Explorer to just copy or move the folders to a different drive.  But any program must be uninstalled, then re-installed.  You can't move programs manually.

You probably don't have to uninstall/re-install the other programs that are on f.  But they will run better and faster if they are on the internal IDE c: drive.  Definitely put Ghost on internal c: drive.

I could tell you are a tinkerer because of all the devices, and configurations you have plus macs etc.  Makes it fun! (but sometimes challenging to debug)

Ok, I am now using USB2 on Disk3, Drives F & N. No change, well not exactly, it did fail to backup Drive F but it looks like the reason has changed at first look. It is now indicating a CRC error.

Description: Error EC8F17B7: Cannot create recovery points for job: Recovery point of F:\. Error E7C3000F: Device \\.\SymantecSnapshot2 cannot read 4160 sectors starting at LBA 266104. Error EBAB03F1: Data error (cyclic redundancy check).
Details: 0xE7C3000F
Source: Norton Ghost

Prior to it just said I/O error. Same thing I guess but some difference.

So now I will go ahead and uninstall NG10. On thing at a time, Baby Steps, until I know just why this creature is putting me through the wringer.

uninstalling and reinstalling:
You are really cautious aren't you. Good troubleshooting techniques to be so.

After re-installing Ghost 10 on the c: drive, you will have to redefine your backups.  I recommend choosing a different folder name on your 500gb external to hold backup images, such as G:\Ghost10a to make sure there is no confusion from the older ones.

http://www.google.com/search?&q=EBAB03F1

Just one of many Google results:
http://service1.symantec.com/Support/powerquest.nsf/docid/2005111019380362


Quote:

When you schedule an incremental backup or as the backup takes place, you see one or more of the following error messages: "Error EC8F17B7: Cannot create recovery points for job: Complete System Backup" "Error E7C3000F: Device \\. \SymantecSnapshot2 cannot read 4096 sectors starting at LBA 13671576" "Error EBAB03F1: Data error (cyclic redundancy check)" Several causes exist for these messages: Hard drive problems, such as file system errors or bad sectors To prevent this problem, make sure that you check the option "Ignore bad sectors during copy" while the Backup Wizard is in progress. Multiple USB devices that are connected to the computer Disconnect all devices except for the USB destination hard drive.

ok, I have reinstalled NG10. I had it save all previous data. When I installed it on C drive it already contained my backup profiles. I hadn't seen your message and I didn't want to lose all of the backups that I had already done.

It failed to backup drive F: again. This time it seems that the errors are smaller and different.

Description: Error EC8F17B7: Cannot create recovery points for job: Recovery point of F:\. Error E7C3000F: Device \\.\SymantecSnapshot1 cannot read 2736 sectors starting at LBA 266416. Error EBAB03F1: Data error (cyclic redundancy check).
Details: 0xE7C3000F
Source: Norton Ghost

The number of sectors that cannot be read has shrunk from 4160 sectors to 2736 sectors now. That is a 5.6GB difference if I assume 4GB per sector.  Still CRC error.

I wonder what will happen when I remove all installed programs on F?

I can't explain why Ghost 10 is having problems reading the data on F: but TrueImage does not have any problems.

I looked at one of your earlier posts about f: drive.


Quote:

chkdsk F: /r The type of the file system is FAT32. Chkdsk cannot run because the volume is in use by ano process.  Chkdsk may run if this volume is dismounted ALL OPENED HANDLES TO THIS VOLUME WOULD THEN BE INVAL Would you like to force a dismount on this volume? (Y Volume dismounted.  All opened handles to this volume Volume Serial Number is 17EE-2827 Windows is verifying files and folders... File and folder verification is complete. Windows is verifying free space... Free space verification is complete. Windows has checked the file system and found no prob   18,639,104 KB total disk space.     804 KB in 15 hidden files.   1,696 KB in 402 folders.    4,612,004 KB in 2,081 files.     128 KB in bad sectors.   14,024,468 KB are available.

What bothers me is that it says there is 128KB in bad sectors.  While that is not a large amount of bad sectors and the hard drive technology allows for bad sectors (by marking them bad and unusable), most of the time for disks there are 0 KB in bad sectors unless there is some problem with the drive itself.

I hate to give up on a problem and just say "Drive f/n is bad, get rid of it".  But...

I would probably uninstall any programs that are on F: and N: and re-install them on your c: drive.  That's just a safety precaution in case whatever problem is on f: spreads.

Then move all of the data files to either c: or g:.  Then use XP Disk Manager to delete f and n partitions and then define/format a new partition on the drive if you really want to save it.  Use NTFS if possible.

It's not a perfect answer, but gives you a couple options to consider.  (You could search the Internet or your drive manufacturer for drive diagnostics if you want to spend more time on it.)  What is the brand/model of the firewire/usb2 external?

Frustrating isn't it. There is a point of diminishing returns and we may have reached it. I have started removing the installed programs on F: already.  I didn't install any programs on N: as it was only to be used for Data. I agree that 128K isn't much to worry about and if it was wouldn't chkdsk have reported it as a problem. If the 128K bad sectors had been a problem it should have been a problem for TI10 as well. It may just boil down to the algorhythm used by Symantec versus the one used by Acronis. Having grownup in the electronics industry I am familiar with the minute differences in chip specs that can affect whether or not a product is successful. Not all chips are equal even when they carry the same product number. Minor differences can make a big difference.

I used TI to make the clone of C: which seems to be working fine. NG was able to backup C: as well.  I don't need F/N anymore so I will move everything over to C: and G: and then I will reformat Disk3 to one drive and either EXT2/3 or NTFS.
Then maybe I will try a test to see if NG10 can make a backup of Disk3 just to see if the reformat does away with the problem.

Ghost4Me I want to thank you for hanging with me for so long. It has been real and I won't forget it. You guys have got a great forum here. I would only make one small suggestion; if it was devided into more topics it might be easier to navigate.  

Quote:

If the 128K bad sectors had been a problem it should have been a problem for TI10 as well. It may just boil down to the algorhythm used by Symantec versus the one used by Acronis.

We don't know if the other possible errors on f: partition are in USED sectors or UNUSED sectors.  If the errors are in unsed sectors, then TI would not be reading them or trying to back them up.  The algorithms are different; its possible Ghost was writing to the f: partition at the end of the backup process as part of reconciling.  As I mentioned previously, TI uses memory primarily, not the drive for working space.

As I recall, you had only about 4gb of used space on f: so clearing that off should not be too bad.

I like your plan to reformat f/n into one drive.  Be sure and NOT check the quick format option.  You want the reformat process to rewrite every sector.

Please post back if Ghost 10 is able to backup the reformatted f/n.

What is the brand/model of the f/n firewire/usb2 external?

I used Partition Magic to reformat the two partitions of Disk3 to NTFS. You raise a good point as I do not really know whether or not PM uses quickformat or full format, I would expect and hope for the latter, to do the format. Drive F chkdsk showed 85K of bad sectors. Since I had F&N backed up on TI I wasn't concerned with losing any data. Besides I can reinstall those programs from the original disks which I decide that I truly want and will do so on C where I have plenty of room. After I install these programs I can do an incrimental of NG10 on Drive C and all is well. But for drive F I will install something just to see if NG10 can back it up. If not I will remove all installed programs, remove all partitions, make one partition on Disk3, and refomat to EXT2 so that I can use it for Linux storage.

I haven't yet tried to 'ignore bad blocks' which you suggested so I also may give that a try. First I would like to exhaust all normal profiles.

Disk3 is a Seagate ST3300621A  30GB unformatted. I bought it a long time ago.

I remember that one of the programs, either TI or NG, was using F for temporary storage. I will have to go check that out. I am using my laptop right now so I will need to get back to you on it.


The enclosure was made by Accomdata and has the built in FW and USB2. Seems to be a quality product.

Quote:

I haven't yet tried to 'ignore bad blocks' which you suggested so I also may give that a try. First I would like to exhaust all normal profiles.

I wouldn't recommend that at this point.  That was back when you were just trying to get NG10 to finish.

Since you have nothing on Disk3 at this point, use the XP Disk Management tool to reformat it:
My computer/Right click/Manage/Disk Management

Select the drive/partition and right click for the options to delete partition, delete extended partition, etc until disk is empty.  Then reformat.

Be careful that you are selecting the correct disk drive you intend because there is no "undo" command. It's permanent!

ollie90680 wrote on Mar 16^th, 2007 at 9:23pm:

Ghost4Me I want to thank you for hanging with me for so long. It has been real and I won't forget it. You guys have got a great forum here. I would only make one small suggestion; if it was devided into more topics it might be easier to navigate.

This thead and your comments will be a good reference for anyone else to read regarding NAS and other related or not issues with firewire and defective sectors.

Until a few months ago, all of the Ghost 9 and Ghost 10 threads were mixed in with the main General Discussion board forum, which is primarily the DOS based Ghost 2003 program.  So I know the moderators are tweaking the forums to make them better.  I'm sure all comments are appreciated.

There's also the FAQ section with topics by product.

I believe that you may have located a problem but I will need to do a little more investigation work. I'm not in any hurry anymore though as we have spent so much time on this and I need to address other things.

Last night I had the Big Blue Screen of Death again. Not the same error code as before either. Thing was that I had noticed earlier in the evening, when doing a backup with NG10, that it was taking too long to backup drive C to my USB2 drive G. So here I check on it and find that it has quit. Well I killed the system, but first turned off Disk3 (drives F/N), and went through a shutdown. Then I turned the system back on again and everything was cool. I started another NG10 backup of C because the other one had quit at 75%. This was blazing along just like I suspected it should have before. I do believe that there is something about Disk3 that is causing these problems when NG10 tries to run. I don't know if it is the Seagate disc or the interface but it is one of them. I will eventually place the drive into another interface and see what happens. If it does it with either the same enclosure or a different enclosure with the same drive I will know which one is the responsible party.

If you suspect that the Seagate f/n external is interfering with your system, then leave it powered off especially when using Ghost 10.  Ghost enumerates all devices when it starts up.  Also, you should see the percentage completed in the Norton window as it progresses.  Also, if you are doing scheduled backups, then try manual ones instead;  scheduled backups are done through a Symantec service that is running.  With manual ones you see the progress.

You may need to analyze what else may be running or starting up on your pc.  One handy free utility is the Startup Control Panel:
http://www.mlin.net/StartupCPL.shtml

You can see and then enable or temporarily disable any startup items.

Well that is just it, I have been leaving Disk3 off and have run successfully several manual and timed backups using NG10 without errors.  That would seem to point to the Seagate and/or its interface in the enclosure. Like I said I will test both and determine which is which but for now I am satisfied that taking the drive off the system will solve my problems with NG10.

I had also for a time wondered if there was some sort of interaction between TI and NG as TI puts what they call a Security Zone on the disk.  But no problems when the Seagate is off with backing up C:.

When I get around to testing the drive and interface I will get back to this thread and record the results.

This thread has been complex and I'm lost. Could someone kindly kick start my brain with a very short summary? Was the BSOD caused by a faulty external HD?

Brian wrote on Mar 19^th, 2007 at 12:14am:

This thread has been complex and I'm lost. Could someone kindly kick start my brain with a very short summary? Was the BSOD caused by a faulty external HD?

Brian, nice to have a set of fresh eyes here.  I believe there have been several problems and we are just homing in on them one by one, but for my own benefit as well, here's a summary as I perceive it.

Disk1   C:    80GB    NTFS       internal
Disk2          20GB    ReiserFS  internal
Disk3   F:    18GB    FAT32     Firewire 400
         N:    10GB    FAT32     Firewire 400
Disk4  G:   500GB    NTFS      USB2
(Disk2 is for Suse Linux and not acknowledged by Windows.)

Presently, the 30 gb Disk3, which is firewire attached (Seagate hard drive in Acomdata enclosure), partition F: has bad sectors on it and we are unable to take full backup of F: to external usb2 G: drive (which is new).  Backup fails towards the end.  I have been encouraging moving data off of f: and n: and doing XP full reformat of the drive using XP Disk Manager (or discarding the drive).

f: also contains some programs which have to be uninstalled and reinstalled on c: internal.

The occasional Blue Screen of Death c000021a during boot startup is likely caused by some driver or system module.  Ollie, I suggest uninstalling ZoneAlarm, then download latest version of ZA and then do a CLEAN install of it.  Look on their website for instructions on how to do a full manual uninstall cleanup if needed.

I believe we have eliminated a lot of other configuration issues, but we may have missed something as well.  There may be some other background program or xp service runninng and interfering.

Ollie, please correct my summary or add to it.

Thanks Brian for any ideas and help.

-John-

I did not recognize that the error Blue Screen of Death c000021a was infact related to the issue that I had been experiencing with NG10 (see "Where is my recovery Point??????" & "original files vs image files size" in this forum).  It happened to me when I was in the process of shutting down the system and therefore I disassociated it from NG10's problems. It has never repeated albeit I did get another "Blue Screen of Death" for a different reason during the running of NG10 later. There have been two such events but with different error codes.

I do not pretend to understand exactly what is happening but believe that Ghost's questions about running programs makes some sense as to the possibility of interaction with NG10. However, it also appears after running several instances of Disk3 being removed that there have not been any further occurances of NG10's failure to backup Drive C: .  

All attempts to understand what was happening with NG10 were explored including changing of the interface from FW to USB2 without change in behavior. More confusing is that Disk3 was divided into 2 partitiions; Drive F: and Drive N:. Drive N always backed up and Drive F: didn't complete either with FW or USB. Sometimes it didn't even complete Drive C: when the b/u profile included all three drives together. Separating into seperate profiles helped to make b/u on C and N. It was hard to understand that Disk3 may have been responsible since Drive N: was part of Disk3 and completed b/u ok. The one immutable fact is that NG10 errors have not been repeated with Disk3 disconnected. Maybe it is the drive or maybe it is the combo interface on the enclosure which includes FW and USB2. I intend to investigate this but have slowed down due to other issues which have priority. I will change the drive to an Adaptec enclosure I have and see if the drive still interferes and I will place another drive into the Accomdata enclosure and see if I can repeat the errors. But for now I am satisfied that I can make backups with NG10.
It has been a ride. I am grateful for this forum and its members who have patiently provided advice and assistance.

I thought the Blue Screen of Death occurred when you first booted your computer.


ollie90680 wrote on Mar 14^th, 2007 at 1:03pm:

I then tried to reboot the computer and was given the following error: "c000021a unknown hard error" with the infamous BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH.

Maybe I misinterpreted and you were referring to shutting down in the statement above.  Do you have the second error message number from the BSOD.  I suspect ZoneAlarm though which is in essence a device driver and loads at startup.

All other evidence in my opinion still points to bad sectors in the f: partition:  When backing up "My Computer", all drives in one operation, that would be consistent with c: being ok, n: being ok, but when Ghost 10 tried f:, there were the sector errors, and it aborted.


Quote:

However, it also appears after running several instances of Disk3 being removed that there have not been any further occurrences of NG10's failure to backup Drive C: .

If my theory is correct, then changing to an Adaptec enclosure won't help because you are still using the same Seagate drive and f: partition with defective sectors.  You will need to delete f: and n: partitions (use the XP Disk Manager tool), delete the extended partition, then use XP Disk Manager tool to create and full format the drive.  Or just discard the drive.


Quote:

But for now I am satisfied that I can make backups with NG10.

Glad to hear that.  Bottom line sounds like when you do NOT use or backup f:, then Ghost 10 and everything works fine.  Will be interested to hear how it turns out when you get back this issue.

Ollie, there is an option in Ghost 9 and Ghost 10 to "ignore bad sectors during copy" that may be affecting the attempted backup of f: partition.

The option is in the "Advanced backup options" for the backup definition.  You can set it for the f: drive by modifying the backup-definition settings.

I'm not sure the long term implication of using this option.  I guess that if the bad sector is not in an active data file you're ok, but how one knows I don't know.

Ghost after reading my original post I see that I was in error. I had problems with the unit, rebooted it, then had the error appear during reboot. Sorry about the confusion.
 It would appear that there is a very good chance that the bad sectors in F: may be responsible for my problems. The only way to know for certain is to eliminate all other possibilities i.e. the interfaces FW & USB2 by using another HD. I can't change anything before I can make the determination as it would tainte the results.
 Ignoring bad sectors has always struck me as a potential problem just for the reasons that you stated.
 

See this other recent thread regarding Error EC8F17B7

I'm not certain myself how Norton Ghost 9 and 10 handle bad sectors.  If they exist when the drive is first formatted, then as long as it is only a few, it is supposed to be normal for alternate sectors to be assigned, so that the user doesn't actually use the bad ones.

If bad sectors occur later with existing data on them (not unused) when trying to read a file, that is a different situation.  

Maybe Ghost gives the error message regardless.  Anyone with ideas or experience, please help.

Question: Is NG10's operation totally independent of the drive's parameters for bad sectors? Does it make use of the recorded errors to determine how it will make an image or does it just make an image of the entire formatted area of the disk?

When I read the message "Error EC8F1787" I couldn't help but draw parallels between some of his experiences and mine.

I replaced the Seagate drive in the Acomdata enclosure with a Conner and experienced much of the same type of behaviors that I had experienced although I did not do a backup. The drive seemed to have problems seeking and finding data. Sounded like lots of errors. This was using USB2 interface. I intend to place the drive in a ADS enclosure with USB2 interface and see if it continues. I tried to reformat Conner but it didn't complete the format. Seemed to just hang at the end.

ollie90680 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2007 at 2:58pm:

Question: Is NG10's operation totally independent of the drive's parameters for bad sectors? Does it make use of the recorded errors to determine how it will make an image or does it just make an image of the entire formatted area of the disk?

I don't know.  I started a different thread, How does Ghost 9/10 deal with bad-sectors?, but so far no one has answered.

I'm beginning to think from my Googling research, that if you have any defective sectors (whether used or not), you have to check the Norton Ghost 9/10 option to  "ignore bad sectors during copy" just to get Ghost to run.

I would say if you had 2 bad sectors when the drive is new, and it still has only 2 bad sectors, you're probably ok.  But if they number is growing, that is a bad omen.

Ghost is supposed to backup only sectors in use unless you check the other option to make a full/all sector backup.

Sure would be nice to be able to get some technical details from Symantec on this....  >:(

"Sure would be nice to be able to get some technical details from Symantec on this.... "

I don't hold out much hope there.

I think that I will follow your new thread. I am interested in the answer for this also.