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Rad Community Technical Discussion Boards (Computer Hardware + PC Software) >> Norton Ghost 2003,  Ghost v8.x + Ghost Solution Suite (GSS) Discussion Board >> Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
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Message started by Pleonasm on May 2nd, 2007 at 11:29am

Title: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by Pleonasm on May 2nd, 2007 at 11:29am
With the recent release of new versions of several of the Norton products by Symantec, it now appears that Ghost 2003 is absent from Norton Save and Restore 2.0, Norton Ghost 12.0 and Norton SystemWorks Premier.  Stated differently, new copies of Ghost 2003 are not available for purchase at retail.

As a consequence, the sad day has arrived in which Ghost 2003 is no longer a backup option for consumers who are presently lacking a license.  This application has served many users well over the years, and it is disappointing to witness the beginning of its demise and eventual disappearance from the PC consumer landscape.

On the bright side, Symantec Sales (800-441-7234) has indicated that Ghost 8.2 (the Windows PE version of Ghost 2003 in DOS) will continue to be included with Norton SystemWorks Premier as part of the Norton Save and Restore 1.0 component through September, 2007.

The corporate version of Ghost 2003 (i.e., Ghost Solution Suite) continues to be sold, of course.

A description of the history of Ghost may be found in this article.

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by NightOwl on May 3rd, 2007 at 10:22am
Pleonasm

There continues to be sources for Ghost 2003 if you look for older products still available to purchase:

Ghost 2003 & Live Update???

FREE: Norton Ghost 10 w/v2003 CD / PM8 / NIS2007

Isn't it interesting that DOS based Ghost is still *compatible* with Windows Vista if you use it correctly for the changes that have been introduced to the Master Boot Record!!!--while Ghost 9/10, and Save and Restore--Windows dependent programs--are *history* as far as Vista is concerned:

Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by Pleonasm on May 3rd, 2007 at 12:04pm
NightOwl, there are certainly residual copies of Ghost 2003 available through some sources – but, the key point is that no new inventory will now be forthcoming.  So, as the existing supply is exhausted, Ghost 2003 will (unfortunately) be going, going … gone.

For the historians of Ghost, the milestone marking the “end” of Ghost 2003 should read:  “May 1st, 2007” (i.e., the date that Norton Ghost 12 appeared and Norton Ghost 10 – which included Ghost 2003 – disappeared).  Out of respect, this event does deserve to be noted.
    Ode to the Ghost

    In city of Auckland,
    With cash in hand,
    Binary Research in 1996 made the plan:
    To create and restore,
    Images and clones galore,
    To ensure backup came to the fore.

    General Hardware-Oriented Software Transfer,
    Or, G.H.O.S.T. – should we prefer?
    Spread well beyond the Tasman Sea,
    Achieving accolades and glee,
    Among all it saved and set free.

    In the year two-thousand and seven,
    On the day of May first it was given,
    The Ghost of 2003, sadly, moved onto heaven.
Requiescat in pace

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by NightOwl on May 3rd, 2007 at 1:54pm
Pleonasm

I love it  ;D great post!

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by Rama on May 4th, 2007 at 6:50am
Wonderful. I did not realize we have a resident Poet!

*

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by sumrica on May 5th, 2007 at 12:43am
Ghost 2003 has been a godsend for me.  I came to know of it back when I discovered Rad's site in my search for instructions on how to partition a drive.

I do NOT look forward to the day I have to move on to something else.  In what I've used it for, it's been flawless.

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by Pleonasm on May 5th, 2007 at 10:23am
NightOwl and Rama, thank you for your kind comments on my attempt to author an "Ode to the Ghost."

Sumrica, I believe that history will record Ghost 2003 as one of those rare and elite applications that has had a lasting and significant impact upon the PC landscape.  It spearheaded the concept of image backup and in the process created an entirely new "industry" of such tools.

Evolution and progress has occurred, though.  Today, individual PC users are fortunate to have the ability to choose among a number of equally reliable products, the core essence of which are all quite similar.  Thus, although Ghost 2003 is "deceased," it has succeeded in leaving behind a lasting legacy of successors for consumers.

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by Ghost4me on May 7th, 2007 at 9:01am

NightOwl wrote on May 3rd, 2007 at 10:22am:
Isn't it interesting that DOS based Ghost is still *compatible* with Windows Vista if you use it correctly for the changes that have been introduced to the Master Boot Record!!!--while Ghost 9/10, and Save and Restore--Windows dependent programs--are *history* as far as Vista is concerned:
Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista


I have been following an interesting thread on the True Image forum entitled Vista: Are there issues with the disk ID?.  On the second page (posts #35 and 36) of the thread there is an informative comment about Vista changes that are implemented in preparation for newer large-sector hard drives, not Vista itself.


Quote:
It’s only ever the first partition on a drive that Vista will change the traditional starting sector. It’s all to do with future large-sector hard drive support.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/923332


From the Microsoft KB article, I gather that the 512 bytes/sector will change on these new drives.

So the question will become, "Will Ghost 2003 handle the new hardware correctly with the new offset and new sector sizes?"

It will also be interesting to see if Norton Save & Restore 2.0 and Ghost 12 will handle this?

From this and other threads I have been following, I have just about concluded that when restoring a hard drive image with one or more Vista partitions, you should either write zeros to the target hard drive first (or use a new one) before restoring for the most trouble-free experience.

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by El_Pescador on May 7th, 2007 at 11:05am

John. wrote on May 7th, 2007 at 9:01am:
"... From this and other threads I have been following, I have just about concluded that when restoring a hard drive image with one or more Vista partitions, you should either write zeros to the target hard drive first (or use a new one) before restoring for the most trouble-free experience..."

I was homebuilding a desktop PC the other day with the intention of installing an early OEM edition of Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 (using the flaky two-disk set), and I encountered a crippled system over a half-dozen times in two days.  To make a long story very short, I have since adopted these two rules: (1) I must be absolutely sure that I am starting with RAM that is totally compatible with the motherboard/processor/OS combination; and (2) I will use GDisk n /diskwipe beforehand to perform a low-level format (actually a zero-fill operation) on the target HDD so as to let the Windows installation CD perform its default initialization and file system formatting without prior intervention or prepation of any kind (partitioning will only take place later after a stable system has been thoroughly vetted).

EP :'(

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by Ghost4me on May 7th, 2007 at 12:03pm
Some of the utilities from the drive manufacturers write zeros to just the first and last 100 mb of the drive, which is quick.  And, as I understand it, works just as well because it erases the MBR etc and all traces of anything previously on the drive.  (Of course that isn't a secure wipe, but that's another subject.)

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by richkl on May 7th, 2007 at 6:16pm
Ghost.exe is readily available, as others have pointed out.  I don't understand the license issue- am I too naive or ignorant?  Can't anybody download ghost.exe from some place and just use it?  I thought there was a link in the Ghost guide- of course I could be imagining that.

I bought NSW something back when it was new and have been using ghost 2003 since then.  Do I have a permanent license to use it or do I need to watch my back when I do a backup image?

Richard

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by nbree on May 8th, 2007 at 3:53am

Richard K wrote on May 7th, 2007 at 6:16pm:
Can't anybody download ghost.exe from some place and just use it?

Not legally, no. Although in the very early days Ghost was downloadable with a fairly generous 30-day shareware-type evaluation license for single-computer use, it has always been licensed and it has always been completely clear that it's necessary to pay for individual licenses when regularly used with more than one PC.

[ Now, I'm no particular fan of the BSA and some of their wildly exaggerated claims with respect to the economic cost of piracy, but I have to say that being on my side of the fence I've seen some pretty blatant abuses. I've got a fairly generous view of human nature, and I think that most people are honest, but the exceptions are pretty eyebrow-raising. ]


Quote:
Do I have a permanent license to use it or do I need to watch my back when I do a backup image?

It's a perpetual license, and you can continue to use the version you've purchased as long as you want. The same applies to the corporate edition - we don't expire the licenses for it either.

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by El_Pescador on May 8th, 2007 at 12:28pm

wrote on May 8th, 2007 at 3:53am:
"... (Ghost is) a perpetual license, and you can continue to use the version you've purchased as long as you want. The same applies to the corporate edition - we don't expire the licenses for it either..."

A few years back, I purchased literally dozens of Norton SystemWorks 2003 Professional OEM CDs for a pittance (http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1104074901/2#2) primarily for the Norton Ghost 2003 aspect of the suite.  Between those copies still onhand and the 'lagniappe' Norton Ghost 2003 CDs derived from the retail boxed copies of Norton Ghost Versions 9.0 and 10.0 included in Symantec bundles, I have amassed at minimal cost a considerable surplus of Symantec products still sealed in their original sleeves that far outstrip the needs of family and friends.  As an aside, let me say that just about every PC currently in my extended circle has Norton Ghost 2003 installed plus v2003 on bootable media in addition to a Reatogo-X-PE CD bearing Norton Ghost Ver 8.2 with either an accompanying Ghost 10.0 or Norton Save & Restore installation CD close at hand to validate the WIN PE.

So, is it both ethical and proper for me to offer to sell or swap a 'virgin' Norton item to any member or viewer of these boards under such conditions of scarcity?  My motivation is now realizing that Norton Ghost 2003 will eventually fade away plus the immediate realization that new copies of the Norton SystemWorks 2003 Professional OEM CD are just about gone.  An earnest online search turned up the single website (http://www.zipstorage.com/norsys20prof.html) illustrated below that reflected a reasonable price without an 'Out-of-Stock' notation:



EP :'(  

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by nbree on May 9th, 2007 at 5:36am

El_Pescador wrote on May 8th, 2007 at 12:28pm:
So, is it both ethical and proper for me to offer to sell or swap a 'virgin' Norton item to any member or viewer of these boards under such conditions of scarcity?

Excellent question. Mind you, as part of the background for my views, I live in a country that has a Common Law legal tradition and has the Fair Trading Act and the Consumer Guarantees Act as the law of the land. Requirements of "Fairness" and "Reasonable" set a bar that many if not most software EULAs don't pass.

Personally, I would consider it ethical to transfer a license like that in a secondary-market transaction, provided that the seller really does transfer all the physical materials and proof of purchase (and doesn't retain any copies). If those simple rules are followed, I don't see any harm in license transfers, and companies that do try and forbid such transfers outright really aren't showing a lot of respect for their customers.

To me, the gold standard in license agreements is still the classic Borland "no-nonsense" one. Now, it's hard to apply that to a download-only product (one of the things we expect as part of download-only product is that we can't transfer it like a physical product), but I still think that in the history of the computer industry it's one of the finer examples of a company that tended to treat their customers with respect (at least from about 1983 through 96 - I'll always fondly remember the original Turbo Pascal on CP/M).

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by Rama on May 9th, 2007 at 8:15am

wrote on May 9th, 2007 at 5:36am:

El_Pescador wrote on May 8th, 2007 at 12:28pm:
So, is it both ethical and proper for me to offer to sell or swap a 'virgin' Norton item to any member or viewer of these boards under such conditions of scarcity?


To me, the gold standard in license agreements is still the classic Borland "no-nonsense" one. Now, it's hard to apply that to a download-only product (one of the things we expect as part of download-only product is that we can't transfer it like a physical product), but I still think that in the history of the computer industry it's one of the finer examples of a company that tended to treat their customers with respect (at least from about 1983 through 96 - I'll always fondly remember the original Turbo Pascal on CP/M).


Let me add. Two other examples stand out in the Industry. One is the attempt by Arthur Osborne to sell programs at inexpensive price and sell them in huge quantities. The other is the success of Intuit when they first introduced Quicken. It was inexpensive, when it was expensive even to copy the CD, there was no registration of any kind and they sold in huge quantities and made a lot of money. Later on when they became large, they got greedy and some of you recall they unannounced included tracking program which was installed in user computers and sending back customer info to Intuit servers and user community was mad. Personally, I do not register any product - computer or otherwise I buy off the shelf unless activation is needed to use it.

Once you make the software expensive, individual users tend to find work arounds and use pirated copies. Considering the number of computers in use in homes, making software accessible at a reasonable price (with downloads, reported 300MBS on the way, cuts down all the overhead costs to a minimum) is a win-win for all. Hopefully, some software company may lead the way in the future.

Rama

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by Rama on May 9th, 2007 at 8:24am

Pleonasm wrote on May 2nd, 2007 at 11:29am:
With the recent release of new versions of several of the Norton products by Symantec, it now appears that Ghost 2003 is absent from Norton Save and Restore 2.0, Norton Ghost 12.0 and Norton SystemWorks Premier.  Stated differently, new copies of Ghost 2003 are not available for purchase at retail.

As a consequence, the sad day has arrived in which Ghost 2003 is no longer a backup option for consumers who are presently lacking a license.  This application has served many users well over the years, and it is disappointing to witness the beginning of its demise and eventual disappearance from the PC consumer landscape.

On the bright side, Symantec Sales (800-441-7234) has indicated that Ghost 8.2 (the Windows PE version of Ghost 2003 in DOS) will continue to be included with Norton SystemWorks Premier as part of the Norton Save and Restore 1.0 component through September, 2007.

The corporate version of Ghost 2003 (i.e., Ghost Solution Suite) continues to be sold, of course.

A description of the history of Ghost may be found in this article.


After 9/07, the option seems to be to purchase the enterprise version GSS2.X. I succeeded in buying on-line from BestBuy a 5 seat license. Even though they were targeting 50+ seat licenses, I talked them to sell me 5 seat for about $160.00 including sales tax and I downloaded the program file which is about 230MB. Most businesses can afford this expenses considering the value of their computer data. From my shopping around, Best Buy seems to have the best pricing.

The only complaint is it took a week to "process" the order and issue the license and downloading instructions. The downloading did not work and it took another two days to get this solved. Once it was done, downloading was straightforward.

Rama

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by dave_in_gva on Jun 27th, 2007 at 6:22am
Hello,

First time post here although I've been reading these boards and learning a good deal over recent days.

I am interested in obtaining a legal version of Ghost 2003 that I can update as well, so knowing what sources there are is of interest to me. El_Pescador if you have a copy you'd like to sell me please PM me.

Also, I would like to know if I can use a single external USB 60 gig Iomega HDD (which I will format with FAT32) to store and restore images of the following PCs around our place:

3 different laptops - only one of which has a floppy disk drive
2 workstations - each with a RAID0 array holding OS and programs
2 workstations - no RAID array

All computers have SATA drives and all are running XP Professional. Ideally I would like a single backup/recovery technique that will work for all of these computers. Possible or dreaming?

Best,

Dave M

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by NightOwl on Jun 27th, 2007 at 9:16am
dave_in_gva


Quote:
I am interested in obtaining a legal version of Ghost 2003 that I can update

Technically, you will need 7 licenses of any version of Ghost in order to use Ghost on 7 different computers.

If you can find retail, boxed versions of Ghost 10 (avoid OEM or any offers that say that you will only get the Ghost 10 installation CD in a sleeve--these will not include the Ghost 2003 CD!)--a Ghost 2003 installation CD is included for those who were still using a non-WinXP OS.

For DOS use, you could also consider the corporate Ghost Solution Suite 2, a 7 seat license will run approx. $40.00 per seat.  This option will include many *advanced* options that do not come with the older retail version of Ghost 2003.  The current Ghost version in this offering is Ghost 11.xx and is supposed to be Vista compatible:  http://shop.symantecstore.com/store/symnasmb/en_US/DisplayProductDetailsEntPage/ThemeID.208300/productID.58628000/pgm.11927300

Here's a discount source:  http://www.royaldiscount.com/syghsosu205l.html


Quote:
Also, I would like to know if I can use a single external USB 60 gig Iomega HDD (which I will format with FAT32) to store and restore images of the following PCs

How much data is on each of your systems--60 GB may not be enough room for 7 systems--especially if you want several backups per system for archival purposes.


Quote:
2 workstations - each with a RAID0 array holding OS and programs

Usually, Symantec says its DOS Ghost solutions do not support *RAID*--in truth it usually works fine with RAID 1 mirroring, and often will allow for image creation from a RAID 0 setup--but only can restore the RAID 0 image to a non-RAID destination.  I'm not familiar with RAID 0 setups--can you have existing data on a non-RAID HDD, and then convert it to a RAID 0 setup without data loss--I don't know how that works!

Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by DrWho2006 on Jun 30th, 2007 at 10:14am
Ok, so much for all the Legalities.

On the practical side, you don't need the entire Ghost Install package with the GUI interface.
To do backups and restores all you need is Ghost.exe on a DOS boot disk.

I like to use the DOS boot disk made with Windows ME.  

The most versatile version of Ghost 2003 is Build 793, which works with most of the new AMD 939 and AM2 motherboards.

It's readily available from many sites on the internet.  Some have even declared it as "Abandonware", because Symantec will no longer support it.  
Once you have it on a bootable floppy or CD, licensing per machine becomes a Moot Subject,,,since you're not actually installing it on any PC. ::)

Recently I've come upon Ghost 8.3, build 1331, which will no longer fit on a floppy disk.
SO, I installed it on a bootable 64 meg flash drive.  Works just great on every system I've tried it on.  I find it a nice step UP from Ghost 2003.
With Nero, it's easy to make a bootable CD from it.

Cheers Mates!
The Doctor  8-)


Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by Ghost4me on Jun 30th, 2007 at 11:42am
Dr Who2006
Quote:
It's readily available from many sites on the internet.  Some have even declared it as "Abandonware", because Symantec will no longer support it.  

Support, or lack of, is not the issue.  You are still bound by the terms of the license agreement.

Dr Who2006
Quote:
licensing per machine becomes a Moot Subject,,,since you're not actually installing it on any PC.

Not true.  You should read your license agreement.  "Install" is not there; see the word "use".

Norton Ghost™ User’s Guide

Quote:
SYMANTEC LICENSE AND WARRANTY.
YOU MAY:
A. use one copy of the Software on a single computer. If a License
Module accompanies, precedes, or follows this license, You may make
that number of copies of the Software...


Title: Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Post by El_Pescador on Jun 30th, 2007 at 1:18pm

DrWho2006 wrote on Jun 30th, 2007 at 10:14am:
"... Ok, so much for all the Legalities..."

Where ya' been, Doc [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  I been missing your timely tips and iconoclastic notions ;)

Pesky :'(

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