Radified Community Forums
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
Rad Community Technical Discussion Boards (Computer Hardware + PC Software) >> Norton Ghost 15, 14, 12, 10, 9, + Norton Save + Restore (NS+R) >> Ghost 12 problems
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1186249124

Message started by rleescott on Aug 4th, 2007 at 12:38pm

Title: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 4th, 2007 at 12:38pm
I have g12 on 2 cds, one the install, the other is the recovery disc. I installed g12 to a pIII running xp pro sp2. It did not run a driver validation like the manual says. I reinserted the cd and had a window which lists choices, one of which says driver validation. I clicked it and it says cannot perform this function... I then inserted the recovery disc, which offers the same choice. I clicked it and it performed driver validation. Why does it not work on the g12 install cd?
It says I need 2 drivers, neither of which were knowingly installed by me beyond a full xp install. One is miniport. Where do I get these and why are they not covered once full xp has been restored?

I ran a recovery point creation, which worked. I then rebooted from the recovery cd, and it paused to load files like a fresh install would do. When it finish the message was "cannot continue, bios incompatable with...?
This doesn't seem to be as straightforward as I hoped. How can my bios be incompatable with a program that is cloning a working system?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 4th, 2007 at 3:40pm
rleescott,

Do you have the latest BIOS for your computer? If you do I'd contact Symantec about this BIOS problem. But try creating a custom CD first. Page 19 in the userguide.


Quote:
This is the address of the driver department.
NIC_drivers@symantec.com


Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Ghost4me on Aug 4th, 2007 at 3:52pm

rleescott wrote on Aug 4th, 2007 at 12:38pm:
I have g12 on 2 cds, one the install, the other is the recovery disc. I installed g12 to a pIII running xp pro sp2.


Did you purchase the retail boxed version of Ghost 12?  The reason I ask is that I have the retail version of Ghost 12 and it has only ONE cd, which is both the install and the recovery funcitons all on one cd.  

Maybe you downloaded the trial version on one cd, and then later purchased and downloaded the recovery separately?

This is just a guess, but the fact that you have a Pentium III and it complains about bios, may be related to the older pc.  I'm surprised that it runs XP very well.  I don't see anything in the Ghost 12 manual about hardware requirements...other than the fact that you need 512MB memory to start the recovery CD, plus available disk space.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 5th, 2007 at 11:40am
Thanks for the reply. You are correct, I activated the trial version and then was given the option to download a recovery cd. The manual makes no mention of the activated trial version being incapable of validating drivers, and it seems that driver validation is too important to not do it if you are recovering from catastrophic failure. The recovery cd was presented to me as an option not a necessity, without informing me that I would not be able to validate drivers without the recovery disk, even though the option is listed on the ghost cd. In fact the manual says that if oyu don't receive a validation problem, you have no driver issues, and this is clearly not true. I wonder what other unknown problems exist?

I therefore feel obliged to do a full test before trusting the program. If I had stopped when the system booted from the cd before all files were loaded, I would have assumed that I was good to go with my recovery point and bootable recovery disk. As we can see, I would have been wrong, since there is a bios problem that no one anticipated.

Futhermore, the minmum requirement for xp from microsoft is PII 300mH, so PIII is certainly acceptable, and, in fact, xp runs fine. If PIII bios is a ghost problem, then it should be listed as such in system requirements before purchase.

I have tried tech support from symantec, and as others here have noted, I get an immediate email notice of receipt, a promise of 24 hr response, and nothing else. It has been 7 days.

I woul still like to know where to get drivers mentioned in driver validation if they are not something that I recognize as an aftermarket install by me. Afterall, these drivers are clearly present on xp, or those features controlled by them would not be operational, and my system would not be functioning.

Something is amiss here.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Ghost4me on Aug 6th, 2007 at 4:59pm

rleescott wrote on Aug 5th, 2007 at 11:40am:
I therefore feel obliged to do a full test before trusting the program. problem, then it should be listed as such in system requirements before purchase.
...
I have tried tech support from Symantec, and as others here have noted, I get an immediate email notice of receipt, a promise of 24 hr response, and nothing else. It has been 7 days...

I agree with you that it is important to do a full test (at least try and recover a folder or a few files using the Recovery CD).

Rather than wait forever for an email response, which others have reported never arrives, you can try their online chat which is free:

http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/support/productdetail/contact_ts_en.jsp?pvid=nghost_12

I don't know what the error message you indicated means either, but I do know that you can get a full refund within 30 days (I think that's the limit) by calling their customer support contacts.

Do you have support in your bios for disks larger than 127 gb?  You mentioned Pentium III, so thought it might be possible that PC doesn't have large disk support.  I'm not sure why that would be a requirement unless you are replacing your drive with a larger one.  Other than the free disk space and 512MB memory, I don't see any other obvious gottchas in their system requirements.

Please post back here what their free online chat says.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 6th, 2007 at 5:31pm
rleescott,

Did the custom CD help?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 7th, 2007 at 8:58am
Thanks to all for the replies. Regarding the custom cd,  my understanding is that it iwill be the recovery disc I have with the addition of the recommended  drivers revealed during driver validation. I have 4 drivers mentioned, none of which I recognize as anything I have installed. E.g., packet miniport scheduler, ssci\raid controller, and more. Where do I get these? I have tried driverdownloads .com w/o results. It seems to me they are supported on xp if the install can be completed, since everything functions well on the current original installation. But if the ghost won't proceed to completion w/o them, then we all need a method to create a custom recovery disc with what seems to me to be drivers that we all will need but that are not on the recovery cd. Is this true?
I don't know how to tell if the bios supports large disc size, but PIII is not archaic, just not the most current, by virute of the fact that xp runs fine on it.
Any thoughts regarding the driver issue?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Ghost4me on Aug 7th, 2007 at 9:18am

rleescott wrote on Aug 7th, 2007 at 8:58am:
I have 4 drivers mentioned, none of which I recognize as anything I have installed. E.g., packet miniport scheduler, ssci\raid controller, and more. Where do I get these?


From your description and the age of your computer, it appears that you probably have your hard drive connected to a hard-drive-controller in your pc, and not directly to the motherboard.  Is that true?

Promise (and other manufacturers) were common with separate hard drive controllers; often used to overcome bios issues with the motherboard.

Have you ever booted from a DOS diskette and been able to access your hard drive?  You probably had to use special drivers, is my guess.

Look inside your pc and see if you can identify the card manufacturer and from their website, look for DOS drivers.  These are the ones you would put on a diskette and press F6 at the boot prompt to include.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Ghost4me on Aug 7th, 2007 at 11:31am
Maybe the add-in card in your PC is a scsi card to support a scsi hard drive.  That's another possibility.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 7th, 2007 at 2:48pm

rleescott wrote on Aug 7th, 2007 at 8:58am:
But if the ghost won't proceed to completion w/o them, then we all need a method to create a custom recovery disc with what seems to me to be drivers that we all will need but that are not on the recovery cd.

See page 19 in the userguide. It's easy but one member had to use SATA drivers on a floppy to allow the custom CD to be completed.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 10th, 2007 at 9:45am
I have become more confused regarding using G12, so I decided to check and make sure the program itself will copy a hard drive . In using the copy wizard I find that the copy proceeds to completion, but I did stall with an error that I forgot to copy down for reference, but it said I could ignore this error and proceed if I wish, which I did. I then installed the copy as a master and it boots to just before sign  in and no further. It also tries to run check disk on the new drive and calls it E:, which is what I did before making the copy. I suspect that I did something wrong, but need help. Also the box to check for expanding the drive to fill unallocated space was grayed out. Is that supposed to be so? I thought I wanted to check that box to have my 8G old drive converted to a 10G new drive with the 2G difference immediately available without repartitioning. It also seems that I have seen in the past a step by step tutorial for copy hard drive using ghost 12, but I can't find the link, except for creating a restore point. Any help is appreciated.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 10th, 2007 at 3:09pm
rleescott,

The Ghost 9/10/12 userguides aren't specific and don't tell you that you must not copy into a partition. You must copy into unallocated space or the clone won't boot. It's easy to fix by zeroing the Disk ID.

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1117581957;start=

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1148252120;start=

These links apply to Ghost 12 too.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 10th, 2007 at 5:10pm
Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately, my level of computer savy falls short, so I don't follow.
Here's is what I did. I reformatted the drive into which my C: was to be cloned. I think, from reading the links, that that was an error. On the other hand, it seems that a reformatted drive has no partitions, so I thought I cloned to unallocated space. Can you clarify?
Also, I don't want to have to boot with a floppy, I just want to change the "copy receiver" to master and boot normally to a perfect clone. I am even willing to start over on the new drive and reclone so I can learn to do it correctly,if you can specifically tell me how to avoid the error.
Also, please tell me, if I start with a 10 G drive that is C: only, and copy to a new 20G drive and want all 20 G available to C:, am i suppost to check expand to unallocated space? I specifically ask because my copy of G12 does not allow a selection in that box, it is grayed out. Am I supposed to have that option on a activated trial version? Seems like if the choice is listed, I should have the option.
Thanks for the help.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 10th, 2007 at 9:41pm
rleescott,

When you buy a new HD it should be empty. That is unallocated space. If you delete a partition you are left with unallocated space. You can create partitions in unallocated space and you can then format the partitions. Partitions usually have a drive letter but not always.

A bit confusing I know. What you need to know is you must use unallocated space for cloning with Ghost 12. So if there is a partition on the new HD, it must be deleted before you continue.


Quote:
Also, please tell me, if I start with a 10 G drive that is C: only, and copy to a new 20G drive and want all 20 G available to C:, am i suppost to check expand to unallocated space? I specifically ask because my copy of G12 does not allow a selection in that box, it is grayed out. Am I supposed to have that option on a activated trial version? Seems like if the choice is listed, I should have the option.  

Yes. You have to tick “resize drive to fill unallocated space”. Yours was greyed out as you didn't have any unallocated space.

To fix your problem if you don't have a floppy drive...
Download this file    http://www.acronis.com/files/support/mbrautowrite_en.iso


Quote:
Download the .ISO and burn it (as an image, not as data) to a CD.
Boot to the CD. You will see "Press any key to rewrite MBR". Press a key and you will be instructed to "Press ENTER to reboot" so remove the CD and press ENTER. Your computer should boot to WinXP.


If you are not familiar with burning ISO files you can use the free ImgBurn.

http://www.imgburn.com/

Otherwise, you can burn the ISO from Nero using Recorder, Burn image.

The CD zeroes the DiskID and your OS will then boot. You don't have to use the CD each time. Once is enough.

However you can't resize the partition unless you have partitioning software so you may have to repeat the clone at a later time.



Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 11th, 2007 at 9:31am
Ok. I did not use a brand new drive. I used a spare to test the product. Are you saying that because I formatted the disk before the copy wizard started, that my procedure created a partition that I didn't recognize? My memory is there were 2 lines in the receiving drive window, something like 19.8G and .2G for example. The small one I recognize from installations as for special operating system data. Is the larger one the partition that I accidentally created, which is therefore allocated space, which won't boot? If so, are both lines to be deleted or just the large one?
Also, if I had not formatted, there would certainly have at least 2 lines, which would have been the total space on the drive. Where in the wizard does it instruct me to delete these lines (partitions)or have a failed boot? This is particularly an issue since the manual says formating is unnecessary. I always use all the space on my drives as one letter, eg, C:, so there is no remaining space. If I am understanding you, this is a serious lack in instruction by the wizard process?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by NightOwl on Aug 11th, 2007 at 9:49am
rleescott


Quote:
If I am understanding you, this is a serious lack in instruction by the wizard process?

Welcome to Symantec's User Guides  :) Clear as *mud*!

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 12th, 2007 at 12:34pm
Brian and others.
I was able to boot the clone as a primary by using the fdisk trick as you said. I still want to be able to produce a copy that boots on its own. I am moving the copy to slave and am back to the original as a master. This time I am not formatting.The wizard provides no info as to how to delete the2 partitions that are now in the E: drive so  can have total unallocated space. Surely I don't need other software. Obviously right click on E: provides no delete option . Can you help me ?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 12th, 2007 at 3:50pm

rleescott wrote on Aug 12th, 2007 at 12:34pm:
The wizard provides no info as to how to delete the2 partitions that are now in the E: drive so  can have total unallocated space.

rleescott,

You can delete the partitions from WinXP Disk Management. Right click My Computer, Manage, Disk Management. Right click a partition on your second HD, click Delete Partition. Repeat the procedure if there are other partitions.

I'm pleased fdisk worked. Did you use a floppy or the bootable CD method?


Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 13th, 2007 at 5:01pm
Brian:
Here is the update including new problems.
First, I used the cd rom fdisk, but i tried the floppy, which would have worked, except I didn't know what to type at the command prompt.
Next, I verified that both the original and copy worked perfectly  for reboots, both as single drives, and as master/slave. Then I installed the original drive as master and copy as slave, rebooted and went to disk management. I deleted everything from the E: drive(the Clone) in the partition area. From there the drive no longer had a letter assigned.
I opened ghost /copy wizard and copied the C: to the newly unallocated space in the clone. I now had to option to expand to fill available space like you said. My question came when it was time to pick a drive letter. I want it to be C:, but C: isn't an option .I picked E: but none was an option as well.

First question. Does it matter if I assign a drive letter or is none ok, since on reboot the computer should assign a letter. Or if I choose none, will it be unbootable?

Anyway, I chose E: Finished the copy and converted  the copy to master and booted.
It recognized the drive and booted. Hooray., you say.
Well, now, anytime I boot, it goes to the black screen where I must choose to use win xp or winxp/2003. If  I don't choose in 30 sec, it then says can't boot normally and gives the black screen option of safe mode, last good config, etc, etc, or boot to windows normally. If I boot normally, It goes to login and from there seems normal. I did not power off or tamper with the startup to cause this. It acts like it is recovering from an improper shutdown, but it seems to be permanent.
I don't like the extra 2 steps of verifying the OS to use, and this didn't exist befor the copy occurred. How can I make this go away? Seems like the copy isn't as perfect as it should be.
Help?


Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 13th, 2007 at 6:23pm
rleescott,

Almost there. You must have missed this in my instructions.

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1117581957;start=


Quote:
Chose Drive Letter of “None”

Where does Win2003 fit in? I assume you only have a single partition on your old HD. WinXP.

Sounds like your boot.ini has an extra OS listed which doesn't exist. Maybe related to assigning E: drive. It's best if there is no drive letter when the clone completes. The new WinXP then isn't visible in Windows Explorer.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 14th, 2007 at 9:07am
Thanks. I did miss the point about assigning a drive letter of "none". Yes the screen option on reboot is winxp pro or win xp2003. I don't even know what xp2003 is, or why my procedure would cause this. Once the reboot was complete the drive letter assigned was C: as would be expected. I will try again, and use none as a drive letter.

Uh oh. This is wierd. I just installed the original drive as master and single drive, taking the copy totally out of the picture. It also boots to the same 2 black screens where i must select xp/pro. It should not have been compromised when it was used to create a copy. If there is something wrong now with the original, a perfect copy will duplicate the problem, I'm afraid. Is this a MBR issue? Any suggestions as to how to make the black screen options stop?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by NightOwl on Aug 14th, 2007 at 9:44am
rleescott


Quote:
Yes the screen option on reboot is winxp pro or win xp2003. I don't even know what xp2003 is, or why my procedure would cause this.

Well, you really have a *ghost* in your system!  I've not seen a WinXP2003 designation before--there is a Win Server 2003.  That choice is coming from the contents of your *boot.ini* file.  Your system now *thinks* you have in the past installed the *win xp2003* OS using the installation routine where it sets up *dual OS booting* using the Microsoft way of dual booting!  

Have you ever done this--experimented with a second install of an OS?

Are you the original owner/user of this HDD and/or system?


Quote:
Uh oh. This is wierd. I just installed the original drive as master and single drive, taking the copy totally out of the picture. It also boots to the same 2 black screens where i must select xp/pro. It should not have been compromised when it was used to create a copy.

Agreed!!!  Yikes--that's extremely *bad behavior* from using any version of Ghost to create a clone!

Obviously, we have not been *looking over your shoulder* at all the various things you may have done--but this quote from a previous posting by you suggests there are confounding variables:


Quote:
Ok. I did not use a brand new drive. I used a spare to test the product. Are you saying that because I formatted the disk before the copy wizard started, that my procedure created a partition that I didn't recognize? My memory is there were 2 lines in the receiving drive window, something like 19.8G and .2G for example.

I always use all the space on my drives as one letter, eg, C:, so there is no remaining space.

Obviously, your test HDD had more than 1 partition on it--even though you state you only create single partitions on your HDD's!!!?

*boot.ini* can be edited directly from it's location in the root directory using *Notepad* to open it.  Or, you can find WinXP's system editor function here:  Rt click on *My Computer*, select *Properties*, select *Advanced* tab, select *Startup and Recovery's* *Settings* button, and under *System startup*, select the *Edit* button after *To edit the startup file manually, click Edit* line.

Before you edit anything in your *boot.ini*, first post it here so we can take a look at it!

And make a backup of the *boot.ini* file in case you need to recover from any editing mistake.

And, you might want to create a WinXP based boot floppy that allows you to boot successfully to your WinXP OS even if your boot files have been corrupted or edited incorrectly:  How to use System files to create a boot disk to guard against being unable to start Windows XP.  Test the boot floppy to see that it works properly before proceeding to edit *boot.ini* on the HDD!

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 14th, 2007 at 11:10am
Uh oh, a new level of complexity to deal with. Before I used the spare drive as a slave to copy to, I did reformat it. Wouldn't that have deleted all confusing preexisting data?
Also, When I made the first copy incorrectly by copying to allocated space, the boot didn't go to the 2 options for starup . My dissatisfaction was with having to trick the clone into booting using the fdisk . This means the boot.ini file was only altered by the second try at copying into unallocated space. Also, why is my boot.ini file apparently altered on the original master as well? Supposedly nothing has been done to it except to use it as a starting point for a copy.
No I have never experimented with a dual os and I am the original owner of both hard drives in question.
Do you agree that if I try to copy from the original master again, that the dual boot option will persist, or is it possible that a fresh copy could work correctly if I use none as the drive letter? Then I could use the fresh copy to recreate the master.
I can just imagine the problems I will have dealing with the complexity of editing boot.ini. If i go that route I am sure to need step by step directions.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by NightOwl on Aug 14th, 2007 at 11:54am
rleescott


Quote:
Do you agree that if I try to copy from the original master again, that the dual boot option will persist, or is it possible that a fresh copy could work correctly if I use none as the drive letter?

You do not have to edit anything to look at the *boot.ini* file as it exists on the original HDD--just follow the instructions I mentioned above to see what's there--don't edit anything!  Copy and paste to a post here the contents of that *boot.ini* file on the original, and we'll be able to answer your above question!


Quote:
I can just imagine the problems I will have dealing with the complexity of editing boot.ini. If i go that route I am sure to need step by step directions.

We can help with that--but let's find out what we're dealing with first!


Quote:
why is my boot.ini file apparently altered on the original master as well? Supposedly nothing has been done to it except to use it as a starting point for a copy.

That's a very good question--wish we had an answer!


Quote:
No I have never experimented with a dual os and I am the original owner of both hard drives in question.

My memory is there were 2 lines in the receiving drive window, something like 19.8G and .2G for example.

How did you end up with two listed partitions on that HDD?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 14th, 2007 at 2:04pm
Thanks for the help. I have copied the boot log from the disk as follows:

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP/2003"

The boot log is the same for either the new copy as single drive or the original as a single drive. My other xp computer that is not involved in this problem has a boot record w/o the winxp/2003 line.

Now to your second question about 2 lines/partitions on the slave drive at first copy attempt:
I may have been reading the wrong line or be misremembering. However, I continue to wonder about 2 things.:
1)Since I reformated the drive before the first copy, wouldn't all data have been gone that could create this problem? Remember, this boot issue was not present after the first copy, only after the second copy when I copied to unallocated space.
2) the original master didn't have the boot problem until the second copy, but it has it now. Ghost has to have caused it in the master, even if I did something to cause it in the slave.

If I am wrong here, please clarify.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 14th, 2007 at 3:35pm
rleescott,

NightOwl has been taking you through the boot.ini issue so I'll wait for his reply.

I think the problem is related to your assigning a drive letter to the second OS. The boot.ini shows that the second OS is rdisk(1) which is the new HD. rdisk(0) is the old HD. I've no idea why it's called Windows XP/2003. Perhaps a generic designation.

Don't be worried. It hasn't damaged your old HD. Easy to fix.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by NightOwl on Aug 14th, 2007 at 3:35pm
rleescott


Quote:
1)Since I reformated the drive before the first copy, wouldn't all data have been gone that could create this problem?

Not sure you are using the term *format* correctly--at least as it pertains to Ghost imaging and restore procedures.

*Formatting* clears all the data in the file allocation table for that particular partition, and can change the file system structure, i.e. FAT 32, NTFS, or whatever--so it appears to any OS that the partition is empty (in reality--all your data is there and still intact!--a recovery program could bring it all back to life!--formatting does not *wipe* the information from the drive!)

*Partitioning* clears or re-writes the Master Partition Table to show the layout of the drive's partitions that have been created.  Again, the data on the drive is not wiped--it's still there!

For Ghost 12 (and 9, and 10), you want to *delete* the partitions to create unallocated space to restore your image of your original OS partition to.


Quote:
2) the original master didn't have the boot problem until the second copy, but it has it now. Ghost has to have caused it in the master, even if I did something to cause it in the slave.

It sure is looking like Ghost somehow did this--but, I'm not sure how or why--long shot here--did you tell Ghost to make the second HDD *bootable* while the original HDD was still hooked up?  Maybe this is what happens if Ghost sees two bootable HDD partitions being created on the same system!?  Notice the highlighted items:


Quote:
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP/2003"

The first line is referring to disk #0 (the first disk seen by the system's HDD controllers)--presumably your original HDD, and the second line referring to disk #1 (the second disk seen by the system's HDD controllers)--presumably the new test cloned HDD!


Quote:
Now to your second question about 2 lines/partitions on the slave drive at first copy attempt:
I may have been reading the wrong line or be misremembering. However, I continue to wonder ...

When you first used that HDD--did you partition it to be a single partition, and to be an *extended only* partition--no primary partition.  If that's what you did, partitioning tools create a *hidden* *dummy* first partition (shows up in PartitionMagic as a 7.8 MB partition/unallocated space)--apparently required by various file systems to understand and point the the second *extended only partition* so it's compatible with other file systems--that *hidden* partition will show up in tools like Ghost and PartitionMagic--but I don't think it shows in WinXP's Disk Management.

What tool do you use to partition your HDD's?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 14th, 2007 at 3:51pm
Two posts at the same time. Must be a popular thread.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by NightOwl on Aug 14th, 2007 at 3:57pm
Brian

I have to be away from the computer for awhile--if you want to help rleescott edit his *boot.ini* file--feel free!

Looks like Ghost 12 will allow you to create multiple instances of your OS, probably either on a second HDD like rleescott has done, or I'm betting you can do it on the same HDD if it's restored to unallocated space--just have to assign it a new independent drive letter and you have a duplicate OS that you can choose from during the opening boot!!!!

I wonder if Ghost 9 and 10 have this ability as well!!!?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 14th, 2007 at 4:07pm
Thanks night owl and Brian.
Please note that the boot log that I copied was obtained when only one drive was installed as a single drive, no master/slave combo. Yet, 2 operating systems are showing on the boot log. Just in case you thought I copied the log while both drives were hooked up.
Now, how do I do the "easy fix" to correct the problem? Thanks. Is that light at the end of a tunnel I see?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 14th, 2007 at 4:08pm

NightOwl wrote on Aug 14th, 2007 at 3:57pm:
I wonder if Ghost 9 and 10 have this ability as well!!!?

NightOwl,

I'll try it when I have time. In my previous tests I only used a drive letter of "None".




rleescott,

We now have a copy of your boot.ini so it's safe to do the edit. Delete that second line. It should now be.

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

Reboot and make sure you aren't seeing the boot menu.

Shutdown, connect the new HD as a slave, startup. From Disk Management, delete the partition on the new HD. Do the clone procedure. When Ghost has finished, shutdown. Remove the new HD. Boot to the old HD and make sure it looks OK. Shutdown and replace the old HD with the new HD. Adjust jumpers. Boot to the new HD. Everything OK?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 15th, 2007 at 2:39pm
Brian ,Nightowl and others:
If you wondered what has happened, here it is. I deleted the winxp/2003 line in the boot log of both the original drive and the copy, and both booted properly as you expected. I then followed the instructions given for copy, being careful to label clone drive as none, which is the default. Of course I deleted the slave C: drive in disk man. leaving all unallocated space.
Just so you will know, when doing this on an existing bootable system, I receive the warning "cannot proceed, volume in use, close all applic, etc. This may be do to bootable system on disk, but I was allowed to force the deletion, risking that some applications may not work that are related to the receiving disk. Since I was copying to it, who cares, right? Otherwise, I couldn't proceed anyway. The copy fininshed successfully. I checked each drive as a single after shutdown, I did not reboot with master/slave arrangement intact.
The dual boot returned to both the original drive and the copy. I am shocked, aren't you? Yes, I can delete the line again for each drive, but I shouldn't have to.
Now what is with this program?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 15th, 2007 at 2:59pm
rleescott,


Quote:
Now what is with this program?

It could be my fault. I have not done this test but I've wondered whether a reboot is needed after deleting a partition from Windows so that Windows forgets there was a partition in that place. I've always deleted partitions from DOS so I didn't encounter your situation. Where I said...


Quote:
From Disk Management, delete the partition on the new HD. Do the clone procedure.

I probably should have said, "From Disk Management, delete the partition on the new HD. Reboot. Do the clone procedure."

If WinXP sees two active OS it will setup a dual boot menu. A reboot is probably necessary to remove the entry of the second OS from MountedDevices in the registry.

Are you strong enough for another clone. I realize it's working properly now but do you have time?

NightOwl, what do you think about the reboot?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 15th, 2007 at 3:50pm
Please don't apologize. If not for your help and nightowl's I would have given up long ago. I'm more than willing to try again. Do you think that someone besides me would be using a used drive for backup copy and therefore would also have encountered this? Futhermore, the user guide instructions are become more and more deficient for copying. What about all the other features of the program as they relate to the guide accuracy? Also, if you recall, I formatted the second drive before my first clone attempt, even though I did go to unallocated space. Did the format prevent this dual boot issue? If so, the user guide is even more flawed, because it says format isn't necessary, as if, no one ever makes a copy unless they go out and by a virgin drive.
Anyway, I will get back after the new test.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 15th, 2007 at 4:06pm
rleescott,

These are my comments on the Ghost 10 userguide entry for "Copy my Hard Drive".

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1148252120;start=#11

The Ghost 12 userguide is even worse. There are no instructions about what to do when the clone has completed.


Quote:
Do you think that someone besides me would be using a used drive for backup copy and therefore would also have encountered this?

I'm sure you aren't alone.


Quote:
Did the format prevent this dual boot issue?

Remember, you didn't have two active OS at this stage.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 15th, 2007 at 4:35pm
The Ghost userguides remind me of Clint Eastwood's approach to instruction manuals in Space Cowboys.


Quote:
Let me tell you something, my dear. Those instructions were written by a fellow in Japan when they made this damn thing. They were probably translated by some gringo who was an expatriate American that couldn't get a job in this country. And then the Japanese guy probably translated him just to double check on him. You don't need these instructions. Not at all. Tear them up.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 15th, 2007 at 5:13pm
I am redoing the copy as i write. For my better understanding of the dual os issue, let me rehash. When I first used ghost to copy, I took and old spare drive to test with, just in case there were problems. It had an os on it, don't recall what, but w 2000 is a possibility. I formatted to provide my idea of a clean slate. When I copied, because it was to allocated space , the disk wouldn't boot until you provided the fdisk trick. Then it booted normally. From then on, anytime I tried to make a new copy over the existing copy, there was the copied os in place,and although i deleted it in disk management to create unallocated space, is it possible that the memopry of the os remained to be recalled in the second copied drive? If so, could formatting make that memory unavailable, as could have happened with my first attempt? Never mind how it gets transferred back to the original drive, which is not supposed to be affected. Also, never mind that the second os is listed as winxp/2003, which I don't think is even a valid os anyway.
By the way, assuming we finally get correct reproducable results, is there a way to copy a laptop hard drive as we are trying to copy the desktop drive. Of course, there is only one drive bay in the laptop. Both my hard drive as well as my cdrom drive are removable in my laptop. I was thinking of using the cdrom slot for the slave, but don't know if the bios would work for this. Iwas also wondering if there is a docking staion to insert where the hard drive goes that would have 2 slots, one for master and one for slave.
Why all this trouble you ask?
The norton recovery disk boots to loading files, but then can't proceed due to bios incompatibilty. so I can't access the recovery environment to use the restore point on a new drive if the old drive fails. That's why I am so intent on getting the copy function to work.

Well I just completed the new copy, following your latest instruction to reboot after deleting the drive. I have check both drives as single masters, and the dual boot scenario is back.
Give me a break. This is almost funny now.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 15th, 2007 at 5:28pm

Quote:
I have check both drives as single masters, and the dual boot scenario is back.

Well I'm stumped. I'll try it on my test computer.


Quote:
is there a way to copy a laptop hard drive as we are trying to copy the desktop drive. Of course, there is only one drive bay in the laptop.

You can clone your internal HD to a HD in an external USB enclosure. But I'm afraid it doesn't always work. Seems to be hardware dependent but it's worth a try.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 15th, 2007 at 10:20pm
rleescott,

It's a Ghost 12 bug. I just performed a Copy my Hard Drive and saw the same boot menu as you saw. On both HDs.

It didn't happen with Ghost 9/10 and shouldn't happen with Ghost 12.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Ghost4me on Aug 15th, 2007 at 10:27pm

Brian wrote on Aug 15th, 2007 at 5:28pm:
You can clone your internal HD to a HD in an external USB enclosure. But I'm afraid it doesn't always work. Seems to be hardware dependent but it's worth a try.


Here is how I have successfully upgraded laptop harddrives myself using an 2.5 inch ide adapter and putting the laptop drive temporarily in a desktop:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1172172404/20#20

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 15th, 2007 at 10:36pm
Thanks John. I have one of those adaptors but I haven't tried the procedure.

Here's another thread about IBM laptop geometry.

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=182787

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 15th, 2007 at 10:39pm

NightOwl wrote on Aug 14th, 2007 at 3:57pm:
Looks like Ghost 12 will allow you to create multiple instances of your OS, probably either on a second HDD like rleescott has done, or I'm betting you can do it on the same HDD if it's restored to unallocated space--just have to assign it a new independent drive letter and you have a duplicate OS that you can choose from during the opening boot!!!!

NightOwl,

That may be Symantec's reason.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Ghost4me on Aug 15th, 2007 at 10:47pm

Brian wrote on Aug 15th, 2007 at 10:39pm:

NightOwl wrote on Aug 14th, 2007 at 3:57pm:
Looks like Ghost 12 will allow you to create multiple instances of your OS, probably either on a second HDD like rleescott has done, or I'm betting you can do it on the same HDD if it's restored to unallocated space--just have to assign it a new independent drive letter and you have a duplicate OS that you can choose from during the opening boot!!!!

NightOwl,
That may be Symantec's reason.


Ghost 12 (or any Ghost version) can be restored into as many partitions as you have room for.  

This is similar to leaving both drives connected after cloning, and then booting into XP.  The result in both cases tends to be corrupted XP registries, so I personally don't advise either approaches ever.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 16th, 2007 at 9:04am
Thanks to all for the input. Let me summarize, and correct me if I'm wrong.
1)The reason the regular users of g12 have not commented on this bug before me is that everyone that tested the copy function used a brand new drive with no os in place?
2)Symantec thinks no one would ever copy to a used drive, so there would be no problem to address in the user guide.
3)Because the guide doesn't say copy to unallocated space, many are copying to allocated space, which won't boot until they discover the fdisk trick, and they stop exploring at that point. Perhaps they are formatting, or perhaps they are using a used drive that has been formatted and is now used for data storage, so no os is present. The few that remain become frustrated and try another program.
4)Since I formatted the slave drive before my first copy, and, if you recall, didn't have the dual boot problem, it is now time to repeat the copy process on the same drive after reformatting.
5)If this doesn't work, our revised user guide will include instuctions how to delete the 2nd os boot option in both drives, as if this is the way g12 is "supposed" to work. If this does work, and that's a big "if", it then becomes necessary to reformat before copying to anything but a new fresh drive.
What do you think?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Ghost4me on Aug 16th, 2007 at 9:33am
There is a lot to comment on regarding your last post, but first let me say that even though in your specific scenario there have been multiple problems, some of the issues are not technically Ghost problems but really Windows XP issues.  For example, when you first use a usb2 device (like a hard drive) or an ide device, XP "wants" to remember what drive letter it assigns to it.  That's for your benefit.  So that the next time you connect it, XP doesn't get confused and assign j: for something that was d: the last time.  That's where the clearing of the DiskID using the DOS fdisk or disk-wipe comes to play.

If you use a disk-wipe function from your hard drive manufacturer (or these other methods) then the signature of the disk drive is zeroed out.  Now XP thinks it is a brand new never used hard drive, and treats it as such.

If you format the drive yourself, then obviously XP now remembers that drive letter; remembers that you formatted it in a sense, which defeats what anyone thinks they wanted.  The unobvious fact is that by formatting a drive, you are causing XP to actually REMEMBER, which is the exact opposite effect that you would think you want.

Secondly, if you have a "data" partition Ghost backup (one that contains your documents, pictures, databases etc.) and not the operating system, a lot of the problems you faced would not apply.  You can copy into allocated space or unallocated space etc etc because of course you can fix up the drive letters later.  And none of it is affecting the integrity of XP operating system remembrances or registry.


Quote:
1)The reason the regular users of g12 have not commented on this bug before me is that everyone that tested the copy function used a brand new drive with no os in place?  

Many have commented on it before.  The usual fix is to wipe the disk first (or buy a new unused one).


Quote:
2)Symantec thinks no one would ever copy to a used drive, so there would be no problem to address in the user guide.

The Symantec user guide is woefully lacking.  A 10 page real world scenarios chapter would be a big help.  Symantec doesn't seem to ever discuss effects of partitions on the operating system.


Quote:
3)Because the guide doesn't say copy to unallocated space, many are copying to allocated space, which won't boot until they discover the fdisk trick, and they stop exploring at that point. Perhaps they are formatting, or perhaps they are using a used drive that has been formatted and is now used for data storage, so no os is present. The few that remain become frustrated and try another program.

I've seen that also.  However, same problem happens with any imaging program that doesn't clear the DiskID/signature field of the target disk.


Quote:
4)Since I formatted the slave drive before my first copy, and, if you recall, didn't have the dual boot problem, it is now time to repeat the copy process on the same drive after reformatting.

No.  You do NOT want to reformat, certainly not with XP.  Use DOS/Win98 fdisk or boot cd that Brian mentioned.  Or look for wipe-disk function from WD, Seagate, etc., or whichever applies to your brand.


Quote:
5)If this doesn't work, our revised user guide will include instructions how to delete the 2nd os boot option in both drives, as if this is the way g12 is "supposed" to work. If this does work, and that's a big "if", it then becomes necessary to reformat before copying to anything but a new fresh drive.


I'm not sure why you triggered the 2nd boot.ini options.  Did you use the XP Recovery Console to run commands such as fixboot, fixmbr, or bootcfg /rebuild?  Those commands scan the partitions and automatically modify your boot.ini.

Again, you do NOT want to reformat yourself using XP.  You can have XP delete the partitions of the new previously-used drive.  But then you still have to wipe it.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 16th, 2007 at 12:12pm
Ghost4me:
Thanks very much for your very helpful comments.
For those who are following this thread, a new development is:
I deleted the boot log line for both drives that refers to winxp/2003 and they boot normally. However, when I install them as master/slave to redo the copy, the slave drive no longer has a drive letter assigned; therefore, the drive is not visible in My computer. My previous retries to copy as master / have always shown C: for master and E: for slave. Yes, I can presumably assign a drive letter in disk management, but this is a new issue that I don't understand . Is the program  confused by multiple attempts to copy the same drive.?
What do you think?
To answer your question, I did not "use the XP Recovery Console to run commands such as fixboot, fixmbr, or bootcfg /rebuild" . Are you saying that the fix for this double boot os issue is to wipe the drive and recopy, or use a new drive?

Regarding wiping the drive, which I am willing to test, I have the fdisk cd, but don't know how to proceed to wipe the drive. Can you advise?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Ghost4me on Aug 16th, 2007 at 1:20pm
A new blank unformatted disk will normally not have a drive letter.  That is what you want.

Rather than confuse everything with new options, I think you want to go back to the basics which Brian and others advised:

1. Remove your good (XP source) hard drive.
2. Put your target hard drive in as master/single.  Then boot the Win98 diskette and fdisk /mbr command.  This clears the DiskID signature.  Also use the fdisk command to delete any partitions that exist on that hard drive.  At this point it should be just like a new/blank/unformatted drive.  Shut down.
3. Put your good (source) drive back in as master, and the blank hard drive as slave.
4. Use Ghost 12 options from Chapter 11 (copy mbr, set drive active)

Brian, is this ok?  I want to be sure these instructions are consistent with yours.  I wasn't following all the previous thread comments.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Ghost4me on Aug 16th, 2007 at 1:49pm

rleescott wrote on Aug 16th, 2007 at 12:12pm:
To answer your question, I did not "use the XP Recovery Console to run commands such as fixboot, fixmbr, or bootcfg /rebuild".


I have a suspicion now as how how you got the modified boot.ini lines:
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP/2003"

Because you are using the Ghost 12 Copy Drive function from within XP, Ghost 12 sets up a "virtual boot partition" so that it reboots to copy the hard drive in an "offline" mode.

This is similar to what Ghost 2003 does, I believe, if started from within Windows.

My guess is that the cleanup didn't complete normally, so it left the 2nd boot option there.


Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 16th, 2007 at 1:57pm
I'm sorry, but I don't underdstand your explanation. Don't we always start g12 from windows to make a copy drive? I did not interrupt the progress of the copy either.
Also, I will need more detailed instructions to wipe the drive if you still believe that will work.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Ghost4me on Aug 16th, 2007 at 2:02pm

rleescott wrote on Aug 16th, 2007 at 1:57pm:
I'm sorry, but I don't underdstand your explanation. Don't we always start g12 from windows to make a copy drive? I did not interrupt the progress of the copy either.
Also, I will need more detailed instructions to wipe the drive if you still believe that will work.


I haven't done a copy-drive myself with Ghost 12 so I'm not certain if it does the entire copy from within XP, or does it restart your computer to do it?

Disregard my wipe-drive comments--you should be able to use the fdisk /mbr command that Brian explained.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 16th, 2007 at 2:20pm
Brian, night owl, ghost 4me, and others:
As i understand the fdisk trick is a w98 disk that zero's the ID. I don't see how it can be used to wipe the drive. someone needs to tell me if drive wipe is the way to go here, and if so how to use the fdisk cd or other available software to do this.
By the way, g12 operates when windows is open, not after a reboot.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Ghost4me on Aug 16th, 2007 at 2:33pm

rleescott wrote on Aug 16th, 2007 at 2:20pm:
As i understand the fdisk trick is a w98 disk that zero's the ID. I don't see how it can be used to wipe the drive. someone needs to tell me if drive wipe is the way to go here, and if so how to use the fdisk cd or other available software to do this.


Most drive-wipe utilities don't actually zero out the entire disk drive; they just zero out the first 100MB or so, which contains the ID and partition information.  So it looks then like an empty drive.

The windows 98 fdisk /mbr over-writes the DiskID, so, assuming there are no partitions on the drive, it will look like a blank never-used drive to XP.

Thanks for the information about how the Ghost 12 Copy Disk works--all from within XP.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 16th, 2007 at 3:57pm
rleescott,

Just so we agree on terminology. When you say formatting, I think you mean partitioning. You can't format unallocated space. You can only format a partition. In addition, a partition can be formatted or unformatted. A partition can have a drive letter or no drive letter. You can have a partition that is unformatted but has a drive letter.

When the Ghost 12 Copy my Hard Drive has completed the cloning, the OS partition on the second HD is not seen in Windows Explorer because it has no drive letter. This is expected. What wasn't expected was the two OS entries in the boot.ini of both OS. Symantec probably sees it as a feature although we see it as a bug. It's no big deal as it can be fixed in 5 seconds and it does no damage to the OS.

I see no need to change my instructions for Copy my Hard Drive. They still apply.

Keep your tests going. We learn by these.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 16th, 2007 at 5:01pm
Ok, the terminology is confusing, so I will explain. When I started the first copy drive experiment, I took an old used drive with data on it, possibly an os like w2000. I right clicked on the drive letter and selected "format". So I formatted, apparently a partition, and since I only had a C: partion I formatted the whole drive. Is this correct terminology?

For all copies after the first, I shut down after copy was complete, removed the original and booted with the copy. It was recognized as C: when I could finally get a boot.
I did the same for the original, which also was called C: I then installed master/slave and the original was C: and the slave(copy) was E: Until this last time when I performed the same maneuvers and master was C: and slave was not labeled. I had to label it E: thru disk management. This is different than the other times because I never had to assign a drive letter before. I believe you have misundersxtood what I meant to convey. I was not looking for the slave letter at the completion of the copy before shutting down, I never check that and wouldn't expect a drive  letter then. I only mentioned it to be complete in case it provided an explanation for the program bug.

I still want to try to copy to a wiped disk if that will give the desired result. Am I correct that I can't do this with the fdisk cd? If so, how is it done?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 16th, 2007 at 5:32pm

Quote:
So I formatted, apparently a partition, and since I only had a C: partion I formatted the whole drive. Is this correct terminology?

OK. I'm with you now. You formatted the only partition on the HD. It wasn't the C: drive. It would have had another drive letter but that letter doesn't matter.


Quote:
For all copies after the first, I shut down after copy was complete, removed the original and booted with the copy. It was recognized as C: when I could finally get a boot.

That's fine.


Quote:
I had to label it E: thru disk management. This is different than the other times because I never had to assign a drive letter before.

Not too sure why you had to assign a drive letter. When you clone with two HDs in the computer there should only be one drive letter. C: drive.


Quote:
I still want to try to copy to a wiped disk if that will give the desired result.

I doubt it. We both get the same result.


Quote:
If so, how is it done?

Download CopyWipe for DOS  from
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/copywipe.php#download

Unzip the file, double click makedisk.exe, don't tick anything, select ISO file as the target. Save it to your desktop and burn the ISO to a CD as you did before. Only have your new HD in the computer (as master). Boot to the CD, run through a few menus and choose Quick- One Pass. There are good instructions in the pdf.

You might like to try the Copy a Hard Drive function in CopyWipe at a later time. It works well.


Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 17th, 2007 at 8:42am
Brian:
I doubt it. We both get the same result.

Are you saying that when you confirmed the dual boot os issue that I experienced, you used a wiped drive as the slave to copy to? If so, then the rest of the tests I have planned are unnecessary.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 17th, 2007 at 1:20pm
rleescott,


Quote:
Are you saying that when you confirmed the dual boot os issue that I experienced,

Yes. Reply #38.


Quote:
you used a wiped drive as the slave to copy to?

No. But I don't think it will make any difference.

Although the altered boot.ini is annoying, it doesn't do any damage. Just edit the boot.ini and all will be OK. I'm not concerned.


Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 17th, 2007 at 1:46pm
I'm going to do a few more tests and will report back. Here's why, and if I'm mistaken please tell me.
If a wiped drive is the same as a brand new, never used drive, then the copy function doesn't work properly for any type of slave, used or new. Futhermore, if it just affected the copy .ini file, I would agree. But it alters the master  .ini as well. If I can't trust this program to avoid even the slightest change to the master, then how can i trust that other features are not flawed towards affecting the master as well? If I were consumer reports I would say a clone program that changes the original is unacceptable, but that's just me.

Also, remember when I made the 1st copy into allocated space, before I knew anything about how to use G12. That copy, when it was fdisked to boot, did NOT alter the .ini file on either original or copy. That means that it is not a given that the .ini file has to be affected, so further evaluation may clarify.

Thanks for the copywipe info. I will try it  for wipe as I pursue this project. I will also try the copy portion eventually.

Do you have any experience with acronis true image? Is there a forum for it?

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 17th, 2007 at 2:05pm

Quote:
I would say a clone program that changes the original is unacceptable, but that's just me.

I don't like it either but I don't think it does any damage. It seems like an attempt by Symantec to help setup a dual boot menu. Whether you want it or not.


Quote:
Also, remember when I made the 1st copy into allocated space, before I knew anything about how to use G12. That copy, when it was fdisked to boot, did NOT alter the .ini file on either original or copy. That means that it is not a given that the .ini file has to be affected, so further evaluation may clarify.

I think you mean "into a partition" rather than "into unallocated space" and it's a good point.


Quote:
Do you have any experience with acronis true image? Is there a forum for it?

Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1183435692/

One of Acronis TI's faults is that it can delete the original OS. But this is usually operator error.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 17th, 2007 at 2:35pm
yes, I meant allocated space. Have a good weekend.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 17th, 2007 at 2:36pm
Oops, partition is correct. Sorry.

Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by rleescott on Aug 22nd, 2007 at 2:36pm
Here are the test results:
I made a new copy from the original to slave after formatting the slave. I did not delete the partition, just like the very first copy I made. This produced once again anon-bootable copy which boots w/ fdisk trick and from there is ok. It does NOT alter the .ini fil in scopy or original.

Then I installed original as master and copy as slave and formatted the slaveE: drive. This time I deleted the partition and copied to unallocated space. This produced a copy which boots, but creates the dual os .ini file in both master and slave.

Then I installed the slave as master and used the terrabyte copy/wipe program provided by Brian. I wiped the drive and I installed original as master and wipe as slave . It was unallocated space so i copied and got the same dual boot.ini issue. I used both none and E: as the target drive on 2 tries with no difference.

Then I installed original as master and copy as slave  and rebooted to terrabyte copy/wipe program and used the copy function. It produced a perfect copy, expanded the old partition to use the new available space, had no boot issues and no .ini issues. In addition, it copied both the primary partition as well as a 9meg empty partition that is automatically created when xp is installed.

Apparently there is no way around the .ini bug unless you install to a partition, then you must use the fdisk trick. I guess I would prefer the simple .ini delete and not have to keep track of the fdisk, but for $60 i am not happy.

G12 fails miserably for drive copying compared to a 2meg program that isn't even installed to take up space--and it's free.


Title: Re: Ghost 12 problems
Post by Brian on Aug 22nd, 2007 at 4:44pm
rleescott,

Thanks for the good testing. You have demonstrated that Ghost 12 has a "feature" that we didn't want. The source partition shouldn't be altered by the copy process. That's unfair.

Yes, CopyWipe has some nice features. It clones a whole HD. Ghost 12 can't do that. Ghost 12 does partition copies.

Radified Community Forums » Powered by YaBB 2.4!
YaBB © 2000-2009. All Rights Reserved.