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Rad Community Technical Discussion Boards (Computer Hardware + PC Software) >> Norton Ghost 15, 14, 12, 10, 9, + Norton Save + Restore (NS+R) >> ShadowProtect http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1190053581 Message started by Pleonasm on Sep 17th, 2007 at 1:26pm |
Title: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Sep 17th, 2007 at 1:26pm
I am writing to start a thread on the StorageCraft ShadowProtect Desktop Edition image backup tool, to collect perspectives from individuals who may have used it as well as Norton Ghost. While the two products appear to be highly similar, what are the relative advantages/disadvantages of one versus the other?
A few things that I noticed in reading the ShadowProtect Desktop Edition 3.0 User’s Guide about this tool that were of interest include:
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Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by huntnyc on Sep 17th, 2007 at 8:50pm
I have used both Ghost 10 in the past and now ShadowProtect 3 Descktop Edition. What you have said regarding your observations are correct. Also what I may add has to do with comparing to earlier version of Ghost, version 10. But at present I am using this program compared to that version for the following reasons.
1. Light footprint from an install file that is around 11-12 MBs. 2. Speed of imaging in Windows is very good. 3. Reliability of restoring images is excellent. 4. Booting of Recovery CD about 2:30 on my laptop. 5. As you mentioned, you can image from recovery CD. On the other hand, it lacks some of the interface automations that I liked in Ghost 10 and other programs such as 1. Verify automatically after creating image. 2. Easily configure email notification. there may be others but cannot think of them now. Anyway, maybe this will get the thread going. I am glad you started it and look forward to others input. Gary |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Brian on Sep 18th, 2007 at 2:36am
Same comments as Gary. I lost interest when I found it can't automatically verify an image. That's no good if you want everything to run on a schedule.
It has much the same extra features as Backup Exec System Recovery. |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Sep 18th, 2007 at 10:04am
Based upon conversations posted on the StorageCraft Support Forums (which are moderated by company personnel in an excellent manner), ShadowProtect is expected to have the following features added:
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Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Sep 18th, 2007 at 12:18pm
See this thread on the StorageCraft Support Forums for a set of sample VBScripts - including one to verify an image. Additionally, this thread illustrates a command-line approach to verifying an image.
In either case, one ought to be able to schedule the verify operation using the Windows “Scheduled Tasks” facility. Of course, this isn’t quite the same as integrating the verify into the backup job, but for practical purposes, it would allow both the backup and the verify to be fully automated (requiring no user interaction). Perhaps an existing ShadowProtect user can test these two approaches and post the results? |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Brian on Sep 19th, 2007 at 2:17am
Pleonasm,
See http://forums.storagecraft.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1593 for scripts related to image verifying. Interesting, but I'd still like to see it in the program as well. |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Sep 19th, 2007 at 7:03am
Brian, on a side note, isn't it amazing that you posted a question on the StorageCraft Support Forum and — not only was the question answered by a technical support representative — but that person actually authored and shared code to help with the problem? Personally, this level of support (in a pre-sales mode, no less) is above and beyond my experience with many other companies.
Huntnyc, have you tested the use of any of these approaches to automate the execution of the verify image operation with ShadowProtect? |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by NightOwl on Sep 19th, 2007 at 8:58am
huntnyc and Brian
Quote:
Oh, you *automation* people ;) ! Quoting from ShadowProtect Desktop Edition: Quote:
Isn't that the *holy grail* of restores!!! You can have your system get fried (it just happened to a friend's computer--motherboard *died*--no known reason--and the system was 4 years old and no source of replacement--Asus no longer was making or marketing that model--or anything close to it!), go out and buy a replacement box--presumably with newer updated components, and restore your image on that new equipment--and you're up and running!!! That alone might be *worth the price of admission*! I'm going to look more closely at this software--Ghost is great if all I have to do is pop a new HDD in and restore it to that new HDD--but if my motherboard goes down--well, yes I can copy files over to a new OS install--but that's not the same as being able to protect against motherboard failure--and restore my current OS to new hardware! Very interesting software--I wonder how well it will keep up with new hardware developments over time!? It would be really nice if there's someone out there that is just building a new system, and has not already begun to use it, and test if they can take their image of a system that is several years old, and restore it to a new system with current hardware technology on board! |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Ghost4me on Sep 19th, 2007 at 12:05pm
There are several ShadowProtect threads in the Wilder's Security Forum:
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48 |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Sep 19th, 2007 at 12:25pm
NightOwl, one of the features of ShadowProtect that might be of most interest to you is the ability to create a “cold image” through the Recovery Environment, if doing so is desirable.
FYI: Backup Exec System Recovery 7 (i.e., the ‘corporate version’ of Norton Ghost 12) also has the hardware independent restore feature, too. |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Brian on Sep 19th, 2007 at 9:14pm NightOwl wrote on Sep 19th, 2007 at 8:58am:
NightOwl, I'm spoilt and lazy. I'm using Backup Exec System Recovery on my main computer and you would think that BESR and ShadowProtect were written by the same company. They are very similar. In looks and function. The main difference between Ghost 12 and BESR is Restore AnyWare, which I haven't tried. Yet. |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by NightOwl on Sep 20th, 2007 at 8:55am
Pleonasm
Quote:
I saw that! Their Recovery Environment must be a WinPE like Ghost 9, 10, Save & Restore, and 12--so their Windows based hot imaging program can run. Wonder how/why they are not concerned about use of their program on multiple systems--which, I presume, is why Symantec doesn't enable such a feature! Brian Quote:
Well, my comment was *tongue in cheek*--I've been working on a project that *automates* Ghost 2003 so that all one has to do is click one shortcut link, and the system shuts down, boots to a hidden partition, deletes the oldest backup, increments all the other backups by one, and then creates a new backup of the primary HDD, does an image Integrity check, and then boots back to Windows--and Ghost 2003 Windows interface need not be installed at all on the system--just using the DOS based program! The biggest problem I have run into is the variability of how the BIOS supports and handles booting to DOS! Each system I have tried it on has required customization because there is a *hidden recovery/utility* partition like on Dell systems, or the BIOS reports inconsistent HDD data compared to the DOS master boot record program for controlling which partition is active and/or hidden. Most recently, I've been attempting to add USB External HDD support--primarily for those who have a laptop and no secondary internal HDD to use--I've found the BIOS and *legacy USB support* to be another variable issue! |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Sep 20th, 2007 at 10:56am
Brian,
RE: “...would think that BESR and ShadowProtect were written by the same company” Well, yes, in a sense they were written by the same company! In both cases, the core, underlying snapshot technology comes from StorageCraft. Your point, though, is well taken: the similarities between Norton Ghost and ShadowProtect far exceed the differences. NightOwl, RE: “...Recovery Environment must be a WinPE” Yes, I tested the ShadowProtect Recovery Environment today (without having installed the application), and it worked well. The ShadowProtect Recovery Environment is similar in spirit to that of Norton Ghost, with the primary exception that you can create backup images. Additionally, the ShadowProtect Recovery Environment contains a basic file manager (“Windows Explorer” lite), which is quite handy for copying/deleting files. Ghost4me, RE: “There are several ShadowProtect threads in the Wilder's Security Forum” I wonder why users are posting questions on the Wilder site, when StorageCraft provides it own forums? By the way, I know that you especially appreciate quality technical support—and, for this reason, I believe that you’ll be pleased to see the interactions occurring on the StorageCraft forums, which include prompt and excellent commentary directly from company personnel. P.S.: For those who are interested, please see ShadowProtect 3.0 Demo for a 15-minute movie that illustrates ShadowProtect in operation. |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Sep 23rd, 2007 at 6:27pm
NightOwl, don't know if it will help with your project (Reply #11), but see Read machine name and bios version for an example of how to retrieve the characteristics of the PC BIOS from the Win32_BIOS Class.
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Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by huntnyc on Sep 27th, 2007 at 9:25am Pleonasm wrote on Sep 19th, 2007 at 7:03am:
Their support has been excellent. No, I have not tried any methods regarding automating verify. i guess I will just wait until it is in the UI. Sorry I did not respond to this but for some reason did not receive email notification on the thread. Hopefully, I will in future. Gary |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Nov 23rd, 2007 at 4:16pm
ShadowProtect Desktop 3.1 has been released by StorageCraft.
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Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Brian on Dec 26th, 2007 at 10:31pm
Pleonasm,
You should be well on top of ShadowProtect by now. Any chance of an overview? Its strengths and weaknesses? |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Dec 27th, 2007 at 4:53pm
Yes, Brian, I would be most happy to pen a few thoughts comparing the strengths/weaknesses of ShadowProtect to Norton Ghost — but, it may about two weeks before I have completed some of my own ‘experiments’. Please remind me again, if you don’t see a post materialize on this thread.
Best wishes to all for a joyous 2008! :) |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Larrycleve on Dec 29th, 2007 at 11:38pm
Just my 2 cents. I've been using shadowprotect on 2 computers and it's excellent. I backed up 96 gigs in about 40 minutes with high compression. It compressed a 3.4 gig partition to 880 mb. I restored a 15 gig partition in 2 minutes. I would never go back to ghost. If you read previous posts I made I had many problems with ghost especially getting the recovery environment to see my external hard drive. Shadowprotect worked perfectly the first time. I tried true image and paragon and they were non functional for me. I would absolutely recommend shadowprotect. :)
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Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by huntnyc on Jan 2nd, 2008 at 8:06pm
Pleonasm,
Like Brian and I am sure others, I will look forward to reading your ShadowProtect overview whenever you get around to it. I am using Sp for a while now and enjoy it a lot but like many I also have licenses for other imaging programs. I continue to monitor several of them because imaging is an important function for me. But right now, SP has very good speed and reliability. Anyway, will await your overview. Gary |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Jan 7th, 2008 at 11:46am
I am writing to offer a set of observations on the differences between StorageCraft ShadowProtect Desktop Edition 3.1 (SPD) and Symantec Norton Ghost 12 (NG). While both products have a substantial amount of functionality in common, each has its own strengths and weaknesses.
Image Creation
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Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Rama on Jan 8th, 2008 at 9:36pm
Here is a quote from the Shadowprotect support forum, regarding backup and restore:
"The only issues I have found with it so far are 1. You can't restore to a smaller partition than the original source partition, regardless of actual used space, 2. You can't restore a FAT32 partition to a larger one (only the exact same size as the original source partition) and 3. It doesn't have a disk-to-disk clone ability." For many of us, who deal with situations where it is necessary to move images between hard drives, need to be aware of the above limitation, even though by using a third party sofware, one can change size of the partition before imaging, if necessary. One nice thing about Ghost SS, is we need to concern only the exact space used in the partition during moving an image. Hopefully, the above limitation may be fixed in upcoming release. For imaging and restoring, Shadowprotect looks to be an attractive alternative. In addition, a full funtional program can be downloaded for evaluation (unlike the trunkated version that Symantec normally has). * |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Jan 9th, 2008 at 5:23pm
While it is a minor point, I would add that StorageCraft does document and provide a change log when it releases updates to ShadowProtect. I know that some users are disappointed that Symantec doesn’t do likewise for Norton Ghost.
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Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by RAD_2 on Jan 12th, 2008 at 10:47am
No VISTA Supprt ?
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Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Jan 12th, 2008 at 3:17pm
After feature of ShadowProtect Desktop that may be of interest to some is its ability for “Continuous Incrementals”: a full base image is produced only once (and never again), so that every subsequent backup is an incremental.
RAD_2, yes – ShadowProtect Desktop 3.1 is compatible with Windows Vista (32-bit). ShadowProtect Desktop isn’t compatible with Vista 64-bit. According to some posts I have read on the StorageCraft forum, however, my understanding is that the limitation will probably disappear in the very near future. You can still, nonetheless, boot into the Recovery Environment with the existing 3.1 version and image or restore a Vista 64-bit system. |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Jan 21st, 2008 at 12:38pm
This is an interesting post . . .
Quote:
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Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by nbree on Jan 21st, 2008 at 3:28pm Pleonasm wrote on Jan 21st, 2008 at 12:38pm:
Just to put this into context, he means V2i, not genuine Ghost - the corporate version of the old PowerQuest V2i product now sold as BESR was previously called LiveState Recovery Manager. As such, I can't speak to any of his other comments; Symantec isn't a homogeneous place, we aren't all telepathically connected into a hive mind, and our processes, culture, product and attitude to customers here at Ghost HQ in New Zealand are and remain our own. |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Rama on Jan 21st, 2008 at 3:59pm Pleonasm wrote on Jan 21st, 2008 at 12:38pm:
From a practical standpoint, when one has to put in place a program which will ensure reliable bullet-proof backup and restore and other functions, one is going to stick with a product which has proved its reliability based on personal experience. When your job or livelyhood is on-line, you do not want to take chances no matter what someone else says -- whoever it may be; finally the buck stops with you. Personally, I am more of a follower than a leader in using software in business production environment, since taking unncessary risks are fraught with serious consequences for me and those depend on the systems I support. My 0.02. * |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Feb 7th, 2008 at 8:28am
Readers of this forum may be interested in the following recently published review of ShadowProtect Desktop from PC Magazine.
Quote:
Continued on next post... |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Feb 7th, 2008 at 8:32am Quote:
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Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by huntnyc on Feb 8th, 2008 at 7:19pm
Thanks for posting the review. I read it in PCMag and thought it was an excellent job by the author. The only feature really that I would like and am waiting for now is to be able to restore an image to smaller partition than the original. But, the program is fast, reliable and simple to use. It continues to be my program of choice for imaging.
Gary |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Pleonasm on Feb 9th, 2008 at 2:05pm
One clarification to the review that is worth noting concerns the author's comments:
Quote:
That procedure only works if the ShadowProtect image is an image of a Windows XP system. For an image of a Windows Vista PC, the VMware Workstation import procedure is not supported—i.e., this is a limitation of VMware Workstation 6 and not of ShadowProtect that hopefully will be addressed in the next release of VMware Workstation. The workaround solution, however, is easy: boot the virtual machine with the ShadowProtect CD, and restore the Windows Vista image just as if you were doing it on physical hardware. |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect v4 vs Norton Ghost v15 Post by Spritel on May 22nd, 2011 at 6:38pm
I am running Windows 7.
I am a long time user of previous versions of Norton Ghost going way back into the DOS days. I have read many posts on the net comparing image backups and have not gotten a good comparison of Norton Ghost v15 to ShadowProtect Desktop v4. I am seeking to do specifically one thing for overall comparison. I simply want to back up an image of the 'C' drive partition to another partition, just as I have done for years with previous versions of Norton Ghost. I do not see a need to install the software on the PC, so I am fine with running the software in the boot 'Recovery Environment' (Windows PE) for both backup and restore as a cold image backup. Simply said, I just want to make an image copy of the 'C' drive to another partition and then be able to put it back later if necessary. I already know that Norton Ghost v15 does not support previous versions of Ghost images. Can anyone give me some input on this or direct me to a resource that will give me a better apples-to-apples comparison of the two. Maybe if we just compare their functionalities while in the 'Recovery Environment'. Thanks for the help. |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by NightOwl on May 23rd, 2011 at 10:17am
@ Spritel
Usually it's not the best practice to tack new questions onto someone else's thread--unless you are specifically responding and adding to their topic. Starting a new thread is recommended--and possibly referring to another thread (such as this one) as being pertinent to your quesiton(s). And, this is a three year old thread--doubtful that the posters to this thread are likely to be still interested/following this topic. But, to comment on your questions: Quote:
Why change versions? I'm still using DOS Ghost 2003--if you are going to boot to Ghost 15's Recovery Environment (specialized WinPE specific to Ghost 15) anyway--might as well boot to DOS. The only reason to use the more recent versions of Ghost or other imaging software is usually because it can create backup images while Windows is running. But.... Quote:
You say you're not interested in having a Windows based imaging program. Quote:
I think Win7 has a *built-in* imaging capability--for what you want, it may be all you need--I think it depends on which flavor of Win7 you have whether the backup software is available. Quote:
Why would you care if you are moving onto a new imaging program? Quote:
I don't personally use Ghost 15, but I've heard that it does allow for making *cold image backups* from the Recovery Environment--something you could not do in previous versions--i.e. Ghost 9, 10, 12, and 14. So, at least it is an option with Ghost 15. I have no personal experience with *ShadowProtect Desktop v4*--so I don't know if it has *cold imaging* options available. Hopefully someone else can comment on that. |
Title: Re: ShadowProtect Post by Spritel on May 23rd, 2011 at 8:09pm
NiightOwl,
NightOwl wrote on May 23rd, 2011 at 10:17am:
Sorry about that. I saw the title of the discussion and thought this was the place to go: 'Norton Ghost 15, 14, 12, 10, 9, + Norton Save + Restore (NS+R) › ShadowProtect'. I will take your suggestion and start a new thread. Thank you for all of your input. |
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