I have a problem  with my computer which involves Ghost and GoBack

My computer configuration is:

P4, 1.3 Gh, 1.28 MB Ram, Intel D850GB mobo
XP Home
40 Gig Samsung drive, 60 Gig Western Digital drive and two optical drives (DVD writeable).
NIS 2007, NSW 2007, Ghost.

The optional GoBack of NSW was also installed.

My problem concerns how my computer views my hard drives.

Last December, Disk Management (My Computer/Manage/Diskmanagement) would show in the bottom right panel

Disk 0, 40 GB drive with two partitions. (My XP Home was in the first partition)
Disk 1, 60 GB drive with two partitions.

Going into the recovery invironment of Ghost, I had no errors in accessing any of the infomation.

In December I tried to install a 200 Gig Western Digital drive which had a Disk Drive Overlay Program (DDO). DDO conflicted with GoBack so I uninstalled GoBack.

The 200 Gig WD drive did not work, as all I could get was 1.7 Gigs out of it.

I couldn't uninstall the DDO as the installation disk had the uninstall part greyed out. Western Digital was absolutely no help as they kept refering to the uninstallation part of the installation disk which was greyed out.

I eventually learned that GoBack and DDO both installed their programs before the normal stuff of a hard drive. So dropping an image on it would not replace or wipe out the program. Nor would reformatting accomplish it.

I eventually was able to wipe it out with a bootable floppy with "Zap" on it and it zapped out the DDO program on my 40 gig with XP Home on it. Dropped an image of XP on it and I was in business...or so I thought.

At this time I decided to reconfigure my hard drives and optical drives with new cables. And this is where I may have done something really dumb.

My Intell motherboard has a
     1) Primary IDE connector (for a 40 pin cable with the usual master/slave connectors) and a
     2) Secondary IDE connector (with it's 40 pin cable with the usual master/slave connectors)

I switched the master/slave connections, not realizing that in so doing I was (in effect) switching the connections to the motherboard. For example, switching the master connection to my 40 gig drive with XP to the master of the other ribbon changed it's connection to the motherboard from the Primary IDE connector to the secondary IDE connector. And consequently the second drive was connected to the Primary IDE connector of the motherboard.

But I am cautious when I make changes, so I disconnected the cable to the secondary IDE connector to the motherboard, not realizing that I was in effect disconnecting my 40 gig drive with XP.

My second 60 gig drive with no OS was then the drive connected to the Primary IDE connector of the motherboard.

Booting resulted in the computer trying to boot GoBack!!!!  And of course, the resultant failure to boot.

Realizing what happened, I corrected the cabling, but I now had the following situation...

Disk 0, 60 GB drive with two partitions.  :o
Disk 1, 40 GB drive with XP in the first partition. :o

This is the opposite of the configuration at the beginning of this post (when everything was working right) when I said:

Disk 0, 40 GB drive with two partitions. My XP Home was in the first partition
Disk 1, 60 GB drive with two partitions.

But now my Ghost recovery enviroment does not work right. I get error messages and some of the partitions are not displayed.

I have tried a number of things,
     1) Zapped and reformatted the 60 gig drive.
     2) -Tried a actual XP clean install on the 40 gig drive with the DVD slaved to the  40 gig drive on the Primary IDE connector
         -Checked disk management and it shows the 40 gig drive as Disk 0,,,good so far.
         -shut down, disconnected the DVD, rebooted
         -checked disk management and it shows the 40 gig drive as Disk 0
         -formatted the second partition of the 40 gig drive, rebooted
         -checked disk management and it shows the 40 gig drive as Disk 0
         -connected the 60 gig drive to the Secondary IDE connector, rebooted
         -the 40 gig drive now becomes Disk 1 and the 60 gig Disk 0 in disk management.

Hope somebody can help me on this.
         
Brian

An Update...

I removed the secondary IDE connector from the mobo.

Did a clean install of XP where Windows stated it was installing on:

"Disk 0 at ID 0 on bus 0 on ATAPI [MBR]"

Shutdown and booted my Ghost 10 into the recovery environment and it works perfectly.

I wondered if my BIOS is corrupted in some fashion. Reinstalled the bios but no change as my custom values remain the same.

From what I understand, CMOS keeps the settings. Strangely, Intel does not seem to address how to return the bios to it's default values.

Doe's anybody know how to do this?

The only alternative is to remove the battery. But for how long?

B.

A further update...

Did a XP clean install till SP2 with only the Primary IDE connection to the motherboard (hard drive with XP connected to the master and a DVD optical drive slaved). The cable to the Secondary IDE connector on the mobo was removed.

Installed Intels...
1) INF driver
2) IDE driver

Then installed the rest of XP Home updates

At this point no problems with the Ghost recovery environoment etc.

Shut down and connected the secondary IDE cable to the mobo's Secondary IDE connector with the second hard drive connected as a master.

Booted and got the message "NTLDR" is missing.

Shut down, removed the secondary IDE cable from the mobo's Secondary IDE connector (thus removing the secondary hard drive).

Rebooted with no problems.

Does anybody have any suggestions?

Can anybody suggest a site which may specialize in this type of problem?

Any help at all would be very much appreciated.

B.

Just to clarify, the ribbon to the secondary IDE connector on the mobo was not connected during the XP clean install.

It was only connected after the XP updates at which point a "NTLDR is missing" message appeared on the reboot.

B

I have no experience with GoBack, but have heard heard of enuf problems and conflicts that I don't recommend it.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Interesting.

Thanks Rad

I certainly do not intend to reinstall GoBack.

At this point, I think it has gone beyond GoBack as I am pretty sure I have "irradicated" it from my system and my hard drives in particular.

It is the "effect" of GoBack which is what I must deal with at this point which "seems" to be a mixed up output/input from my on-board IDE primary and secondary connectors.

And that was the reason for my asking if anybody knows of a site that more or less deals with on-board IDE primary and secondary connector issues. Something like this site which specializes in Ghost issues.

Only they would tend to specialize with on-board IDE connectors or maybe more generally with motherboard issues.

Can anybody point me to such a site, even if they have not used it?

At this point, I feel I do not have any options.

B.

Let's separate your system into two groups:

(1) the motherboard, bios, ide connectors, and ide cables;

(2) the hard disks, each with its own jumper pins, MBR, partition table, and partitions.

GoBack does not and cannot affect anything in the first group.  So in that group, check that your cabling is connected properly and that the bios is configured properly.  Some bios setups let you configure which hard disk and/or ide channel the system is supposed to boot from, so make sure you've set that back to the defaults (the primary disk on the first ide channel).

What GoBack does is seriously mess with the second group.  Specifically, it replaces the disk's MBR, installs its own DDO overlay in track 0, and mangles the partition table with its own proprietary codes.  (This is why it is incompatible with anything else that wants to use the MBR or first track, such as boot managers, disk encryption systems, or manufacturer DDOs to enhance large disk access.  It's also incompatible with attempts to bypass the hard disk when booting, since the boot process must go through GoBack's DDO or the hard disk can't be read properly.)

Messing with the partitions themselves (such as imaging or restoring) won't solve your problem, as it is within the front (non-partition) part of the disk.  You need to completely eradicate all traces of GoBack from both disks.  You mentioned using something to "zap" the hard disks (did you do both?), but it's not clear what you used or how comprehensive it was.  You may still have traces of GoBack on one disk or the other.

I would disconnect one disk and work on only one disk at a time.  Make sure the bios is configured to the default settings, the ide cable is connected correctly, and the hard disk is jumpered correctly.  Boot to DOS from a floppy, and use TeraByte's mbrwork.exe utility to completely wipe track 0 (on both disks!) and install a standard MBR.  Then start over: partition, format, install Windows on one disk.  Then partition, format, add second disk to the system.

Hi Dan

Thanks so much for your post.

It does confirms much of what I have done to date as a somewhat fumbling novice. I use the word fumbling as I know I lack knowledge and that makes me uncertain of what I am doing.

I was becoming desperate and settled myself down with some questions of logic.

1) Would GoBack physically damage my motherboard? I felt that would have been extremely unlikely.

2) Then what could have GoBack done? My thoughts were that it could have changed the bios or more specifically the custom settings of the bios in C-mos.

I was able to determine that the custom settings of C-mos would be lost with the removal of the on-board battery for a half-hour. Being cautious I removed it for an hour and a half.

I removed the secondary IDE connector to the motherboard (which had my second drive as a master).

On booting, I was required to enter the bios to enter my custion settings.

Entering Windows and then clicking My Computer/Manage/Disk Management, every thing was OK with my hard drive with XP being shown as Disk 0

Shut down, connected the Secondary IDE connector (with my second drive) to the motherboard and it shows up as disk 1 in Disk Management.

Shut down and entered the recovery environment of Ghost 10. Clicked the utilities menu and no errors in any of the selections. In contrast, I had errors before deleting my custom settings in Cmos.

So, at this point, everything now "seems" to be ok. Yet, as a novice, I am not certain of this especially in light of your post.

A puzzling matter...

In the "View Partition Info" of the Utilities section of the recovery environment of Ghost 10,
     Disk 1 is shown as my second drive
     Disk 2 is shown as my first drive with my OS, XP.

I am wondering if this is unique with my computer (and therefore there may portray unresolved issues and therefore I should follow the instructions of your last paragraph to the letter). Or whether Ghost 10 just bumps each new drive down in the listing.

It would appear Ghost does not have a "Disk 0" as Windows does.

I would ask someone who has a second drive to check this out with their Ghost 10.

Like is their hard drive (with their Operating System) shown as Disk 2 (with 2 drives)?

=====================================================

The above is what I have done to date. I will now address the points you bring up.

I did remove Western Digitals DDO from my C-drive with the low level formatter "Zap". Zap removes about a megabyte of data from the very beginning of the drive (which would be the MBR or first track as you phrase it).

Later, I removed Goback from my second drive (with Zap), but by then the horse was out of the barn.

You confirm my own understanding that restoring an image or reformatting does not solve the problem.

About the cabling, jumpers etc, I was very careful about them, checking the settings many times before booting. My error was in not tracing the connections back to the motherboard.

I know little about the MBR. In your last paragraph you speak of installing a standard MBR which is something I didn't do (not having read your post at the time).

My question is "Wouldn't windows install a new MBR on the drive it is partitioning, formatting and performing a clean install?" If it is critical to install the MBR, before the install of XP, I would like to do it and get this mess over it.  :)

Thanks for your response.

B

"Wouldn't windows install a new MBR on the drive it is partitioning, formatting and performing a clean install?"

Yes, it should.  So you shouldn't need to worry about writing a new standard MBR.  (FTR, that's one of the options in the MbrWork menu, so I typically do it as a matter of habit.)

From what you say, it sounds like the zap program cleared all of track 0, and if you did it on both disks that should have taken care of eliminating GoBack.

It sounds like you're saying everything is working and all symptoms are fine with a fresh XP install and a reformatted secondary disk.  So really, your only issue is with the way the disks are reported in Ghost 10, right?  Then I'd say you don't really have a problem with your system at all.  It's working like it's supposed to, so don't go off looking for a hardware problem where there is none.

I don't use Ghost 10, so can't really help you there.  But offhand, let me just throw out a thought here:

Maybe someone else knows what screen you're looking at, but I wonder if it is showing you what's stored in your backup image, not the present hardware configuration.  I only do partition images instead of full-disk images (which is to say I don't know what it would look like if you did a single image that included both disks), but if you included both disks in a single image, might that image include info about the disk and partition configuration at the time the image was made?

What I'm saying is that if you made the image when the disks were reversed (60 and 40 GB), the image index might record it that way, and if you're now looking at the contents of that image it may be telling you it contains disks of 60 and 40, even though you have subsequently reversed them.

Or maybe it's vice-versa... but my point is that maybe you're misinterpreting what you're looking at.

Hey Dan

Thanks for your post saying I need not reinstall XP.

I have been using Ghost 10 RE (recovery environment) as a way of confirming/disaffirming the dysfunctionality of my computer. The utilities of Ghost 10 looks at the present configuration of my computer and not at a backup.

With the issue of the DDO of Western Digital and GoBack, my computer would degrade within a short time. I was using it as a kind of benchmark as to the health of my computer when I made changes to repair it.

Now I am trying to enable Ultra ATA100 of my second drive (Western Digital 60 gig drive) from the drives bootable floppy.

It lists my two drives in this order...
Drive 1 Samsung...my XP drive
Drive 2 Western Digital

OK, so far...

Selecting drive 2, it goes on to say, "You have selected Drive 1, Model Western Digital etc.  :( :(

As you can see, Drive 1 is not Western Digital as per the listing it gives.

Since, my XP install was performed under the old C-mos settings, I am wondering if my computer is still messed up. Maybe not as bad as before, but still messed up.

My feeling is that it is not a coincidence when two programs mess up on the drive numbers.

My clean install of XP was performed under the old C-mos settings. I really do not want to re-install XP as it is a two day project to get to where I am now (with taking six images and archiving them).

What do you think? Is there something else we can try?

In any event, if there is no alternative to a XP clean install, I can use your suggested program MBRWork to install the MBR as you proposed. May even be a good idea to start afresh on everything and wipe out track 0 on both disks with MBRWork?

Thanks for sticking with me on this.

B.

BodyAndSpirit,

I had a look at my HDs in the Ghost 10 RE. In the "View Partition Info" I have Drive 1 and Drive 2 which are appropriately labeled. Not back the front like yours.

Do you have Ghost 10 images that you can restore? Lots of reading above and I may have missed it.

BodyAndSpirit

I think there's something amiss with your cabling, HDD jumper settings, and/or BIOS settings (and I think Windows Registry entries are possibly introducing confounding variables because of all the adding and taking away of different HDDs and Zapping one or the other or both!)--and I doubt GoBack was/is the culprit.

Is this your motherboard?:  Intel® Desktop Board D850GB

If *Yes*, then this is the board layout:  D850GB--Components

Component *Q* is the primary IDE motherboard connector, and here's the recommended setup for two HDDs:  Connecting the IDE Cable

You should be using a 80 Conductor IDE cable with 40 Pin Connectors.  Modern cables will have the connector *A* (in the fig. 19 of the manual) in blue that connects to the motherboard's *Q* connection port.  At the other far end will be a black connector--that is the Master connector if using *Cable Select* on the HDD jumpers.  And the other connector near the black one should be grey--and the is the Slave connector if using *Cable Select*.

I would recommend that you jumper all your HDDs as *Cable Select*, and use the appropriate connector to attach you HDDs for use as Master or Slave.  Start off with just your OS HDD and connect it to the Black connector and make sure your system boots okay.

Your system being as old as it is, I doubt the BIOS supports a HDD larger than 127 GBs--and maybe it is even a lower value--so your 200 GB HDD will not work unless you use a *Dynamic Disk Overlay* (DDO) which is a software solution that loads during boot to allow for access to larger capacity HDDs than the BIOS supports--I avoid these like the plague--just too many problems happen!

Or, you could possibly get a PCI add-on IDE controller card whose built-in card BIOS supports larger HDDs (a hardware solution), and will integrate with your current BIOS to support access to larger HDDs that are hooked to the PCI controller.  (I would recommend this over DD0!)

Better yet, just keep the HDD size below the limits of your BIOS!  Want a bigger HDD--get a newer system  ;) --that's what you really want anyway--right?

You said all these problems showed up when you attempted to use new IDE cabling!  Are you still attempting to use the new cables?  Have you tried going back to the old cables?

What does the BIOS say in the Primary/Secondary IDE Master/Slave Submenus?  When you hook up just your single OS HDD as suggested above, it should be listed as the *Primary IDE Master* HDD--Yes?

And what is the BIOS settings say under the *Boot* IDE Drive Configuration Submenu show for the default boot drive?  *Primary Master IDE* should be #1--Yes?

I'm going to stop here--I will address some of the other points regarding what you have outlined previously in my next post--but we need a consistent, agreed upon starting point--or if you plan to deviate from the recommended suggestions above--then we need to know what you are doing differently--and why!

Hi Brian

I appreciate your confirming the difference in the labeling of the drive numbers.

My thinking is that the "difference" speaks for itself in that there is something still "not quite right" with my computer.

I do have Ghost Images on my USB drive, but not a lot, about 10 or 15. Unfortunately, the oldest one is June of 2007. This was not brought up in this thread as I didn't know if it was relevant or not, but a few days later in that month, I did a clean install of XP and Windows would not recognize my second hard drive. Ghost 10 RE did and I had to save what files I could to my C-drive.

I now use a USB 250 gig hard drive to save my images, but of course, much too late to save my images prior to June of 2007.

I do have earlier images saved to DVD, but the quality is supect as I didn't do an integrity check when I copied the image to the DVD. Some DVD's will probably install the Ghost Image and some will not.

Thanks again for confirming the difference in drive labels in Ghost RE.

B.

Hi NightOwl

I really appreciate your going through the 88 page manual. I have the manual printed out as I find the printed page much easier to read than the electronic page.

Possibly some background may be in order:

1a) The 40 gig OEM hard drive is on the motherboard's primary IDE connector and is jumpered as a master. As a OEM drive, it came with no written material. However, on the drive itself, the jumper configuration for master and slave settings are given. Unlike most hard drives, it does not distinguish between a master with a single drive on the ribbon (master only) and a master with two drives on the ribbon with the Samsung drive being the master. Somewhat strangely, the Samsung site has no information on this model.

1b) A DVD optical drive is slaved with 1a) above. Removing or adding this drive as a slave would not require changing the jumpers of the 40 gig drive. This is an assumption based on that if there was a different configuration for a mastered single drive, it would have been printed with the other configurations.  

2) the secondary drive on the motherboard's secondary IDE connector is jumpered as a single master. Therefore, it doesn't need to have the jumpers changed when the hard drive is added or deleted.

3) Previously to my first post on this board, the second optical drive was connected to a PCI card as a single master. So, the jumpers didn't need to be changed when a hard drive or optical drive was added or deleted. This is not a factor now, since the drive was disconnected before my first post.

So adding or removing hard drives and optical drives was just a simple matter of just removing the ribbon and the power cord from the power supply. I purposely configured it this way in order to avoid the possibility of forgetting to reset the jumpers or making as mistake in resetting the jumpers when I added or removed the drives.

I did wonder if the cabling was defective in some way, so I bought a pair of Belken IDE cables. Unlike the usual ribbon cabling, these cables are sleeved into a one-half (1/2) inch round cable making it much easier to see the connections and to remove them as they have "handles".

There was no change with the new cabling. I probably wasn't very clear about the circumstances around purchasing the new cabling.

=============================
Moving on to your post...

The motherboard:  "Intel® Desktop Board D850GB" is correct.

The layout in: "D850GB--Components" is right (page 9). This has been my primary reference page as it clearly identifies the primary and secondary connectors of the motherboard.

About : "Connecting the IDE Cable"  on page 38, and your comment that it is "the recommended setup for two HDDs" is a conclusion I am not sure of for the following reasons.
1) I have scoured Intel and there is no mention of this. My understanding is that it was a fairly popular board.
2) I have spent hours and hours on the internet searching for a solution to my problem and "the recommended setup for two HDDs" was never mentioned.
3) The manual makes no mention of this.
4) Specifically, page 38
     3a) does not say it is "the recommended setup".
     3b) does not even refer to "hard drives". It just says "drives".
     3c) has the heading "Connecting the IDE Cable" and shows a picture of the cabling connecting to two hard drives. I am wondering if it is a bit of a stretch to infer that two hard drives must be connected in this way from just a picture alone. Elsewhere Intel makes a specific mention of problems such as on page 15 regarding USB having shielded cables, but that is missing here.

Having said the above, I am willing to try your recommendation.

Yes, the system is old...6 years in fact, but it was cutting edge at the time. And it does support hard drives bigger than 137 Gigs. If you take a look at page 14 of the manual, it supports "Ultra ATA-66/100 protocols". And my understanding that Ultra-100 protocols are necessary for drives larger than 137 Gigs.

Elsewhere on the site, Intel confirms that it "supports 137 GB and larger IDE hard drives".

But regardless whether it does support drives larger than 137 GB, at this point however, I just want to get my computer working properly with 40 and 60 Gb drives.

About your bios questions, I feel we may be may be onto something here.

My bios menu is not configured quite the same as the manual.

IIRC, my computer started with P5. The latest version of the download is P18.

This site in Intel gives the latest bios and download (I hope a simple click will allow you to access it)...

Intel Downloads

The download version number corresponds to my bios version number saved to my hard drive (and the version I use).

I am wondering if the simplist thing would be to include a jpeg of the sections of the bios you are requesting info on. I think "a picture says a thousand words" may have some relevance here.

Could you direct me to the section of the site which will explain this to me?

An alternative would be to post a simple j-peg and I should be able to deduce how it is done with "quote".

Thanks for your patience.

B.

About the Bios menu...

Some years ago, I did write down the bios settings and the bios menu is the same as it is now. That was about 4 or 5 years ago.

When I wiped C-mos, I used the bios settings I had written down those many years ago.

B

BodyAndSpirit

I'm going to respond to your most recent postings first--then I hope to have time to go back to your other issues:


Quote:

I did wonder if the cabling was defective in some way, so I bought a pair of Belken IDE cables. Unlike the usual ribbon cabling, these cables are sleeved into a one-half (1/2) inch round cable making it much easier to see the connections and to remove them as they have "handles". There was no change with the new cabling. I probably wasn't very clear about the circumstances around purchasing the new cabling.

Okay, so you discovered the disk ID's did not match--you thought perhaps the old cables might be the problem, you installed new cables, but the mis-match of the disk ID's remained the same and unchanged after installing the new cables!--so I think that rules out the cables as playing a role in the problem!


Quote:

About : "Connecting the IDE Cable"  on page 38, and your comment that it is "the recommended setup for two HDDs" is a conclusion I am not sure of for the following reasons. 1) I have scoured Intel and there is no mention of this. My understanding is that it was a fairly popular board. 2) I have spent hours and hours on the internet searching for a solution to my problem and "the recommended setup for two HDDs" was never mentioned. 3) The manual makes no mention of this. 4) Specifically, page 38       3a) does not say it is "the recommended setup".     3b) does not even refer to "hard drives". It just says "drives".     3c) has the heading "Connecting the IDE Cable" and shows a picture of the cabling connecting to two hard drives. I am wondering if it is a bit of a stretch to infer that two hard drives must be connected in this way from just a picture alone. Elsewhere Intel makes a specific mention of problems such as on page 15 regarding USB having shielded cables, but that is missing here.

You are correct--there is no *must*!--the user guide does not give you advice on how to connect various drives to your IDE controllers.  That was more an *editorial* comment by me--it's based on looking at many recommendations over the years--it's not an *absolute*--more a *consensus* of opinion--but the diagram *suggests* the same conclusion!

The reasoning can be found here:  Advanced Technology Attachment (ATA)


Quote:

Two devices on one cable - speed impact There are many debates about how much a slow device can impact the performance of a faster device on the same cable. There is an effect, but the debate is confused by the blurring of two quite different causes, called here "Slowest Speed" and "One Operation at a Time". "Slowest speed" It is a common misconception that, if two devices of different speed capabilities are on the same cable, both devices' data transfers will be constrained to the speed of the slower device. For all modern ATA host adapters (since the PIIX4 south bridge was introduced in 1997) this is not true, as modern ATA host adapters support independent device timing. This allows each device on the cable to transfer data at its own best speed. Even with older adapters without independent timing, this effect only impacts the data transfer phase of a read or write operation. This is usually the shortest part of a complete read or write operation (except for burst mode transfers). "One operation at a time" This is a much more important effect. It is caused by the omission of both overlapped and queued feature sets from most parallel ATA products. This means that only one device on a cable can perform a read or write operation at one time. Therefore, a fast device on the same cable as a slow device under heavy use will find that nearly every time it is asked to perform a transfer, it has to wait for the slow device to finish its own ponderous transfer.

Bottom line--it's best to not have a fast device and a slow device on the same controller because if both devices are active--the faster device has to wait for the slower device before it gets to process its next I/O request.  

Now, if your slow device (optical drive) is never active while your faster HDD is working--then this will have no practical effect.  But, say your are creating a Ghost image of your HDD and storing directly to your optical writer--or if you are doing music or video editing to and from the optical drive to the HDD--then it probably makes a bigger impact.

Secondly, I have done actual speed tests--I do not use Ghost 10, but rather the DOS based Ghost 2003--but the results are informative.  If I hook up a second HDD to the secondary IDE controller and create an image of the first HDD on the primary IDE controller to that second HDD on the secondary controller--and then compare creating the very same image when both HDDs are hooked up as master/slave on the same IDE controller--I typically get somewhere in the vicinity of 20% faster image creation when both HDDs are on the same controller!  Of course we're not talking about the optical drives having any influence here!  My speculation is that the electronic path is *shorter* for the two HDD's to communicate with each other if they are on the same controller--the signal does not have to pass through one controller to the other--passing through whatever electronic bottlenecks may be present--but I have no way of knowing for sure why I have seen this effect--but it has been a consistent finding on multiple systems!

Here's another reference that reflects this approach:  HP and Compaq Desktop PCs -  Jumper Settings for the Installation of IDE Hard Disks and CD, CDRW, and DVD Drives



Quote:

Settings for 1 Hard drive and 1 CD/DVD drive Set the hard disk jumper as CS or Single. Connect the drive using the Master connector on the primary IDE cable. Set the CD/DVD drive jumper as CS. Connect the drive using the Master connector on the secondary IDE cable. Settings for 2 Hard drives and 1 CD/DVD drive Set the first hard disk jumper as Master (alternatively, the Cable Select selection can be used but set the 2nd hard drive to Cable Select). Connect the drive using the Master connector on the primary IDE cable. Set the second hard disk jumper to Slave (use the Cable Select selection if Cable Select was set on the 1st hard drive). Connect the drive using the Slave connector on the primary IDE cable. Set the CD/DVD drive jumper as Cable Select. Connect the drive using the Master connector on the secondary IDE cable. Settings for 1 Hard drive and 2 CD/DVD drives Set the hard disk jumper as Cable Select or Single. Connect the drive using the Master connector on the primary IDE cable. Set the first CD/DVD drive jumper to Master (alternatively, Cable Select can be used if you set the 2nd CD/DVD drive selection to Cable Select). Connect the drive using the Master connector on the secondary IDE cable. Set the second CD/DVD drive jumper to Slave (use Cable Select if Cable Select was used on the 1st CD/DVD drive). Connect the drive using the Slave connector on the secondary IDE cable. Settings for 2 Hard drives and 2 CD/DVD drives Set the first hard disk jumper to Master (Cable Select can be used if you set the 2nd hard drive selection to Cable Select). Connect the drive using the Master connector on the primary IDE cable. Set the second hard disk jumper to Slave (Use Cable Select if Cable Select was used on the 1st HDD). Connect the drive using the Slave connector on the primary IDE cable. Set the first CD/DVD drive jumper to Master (alternatively, Cable Select can be used if you set the 2nd CD/DVD drive selection to Cable Select). Connect the drive using the Master connector on the secondary IDE cable. Set the second CD/DVD drive jumper to Slave (use Cable Select if Cable Select was used on the 1st CD/DVD drive). Connect the drive using the Slave connector on the secondary IDE cable.

Quote:

My bios menu is not configured quite the same as the manual.   IIRC, my computer started with P5. The latest version of the download is P18. This site in Intel gives the latest bios and download (I hope a simple click will allow you to access it)... I am wondering if the simplist thing would be to include a jpeg of the sections of the bios you are requesting info on. I think "a picture says a thousand words" may have some relevance here. Could you direct me to the section of the site which will explain this to me?

Okay, so you have updated your BIOS to version *P18*--that was going to be one of my questions eventually!  

And the BIOS screens do not look exactly like the manuals--that's okay--the basic information will still be the same!

I doubt you can make *screen shots* of the BIOS setup screens--so the only *pictures* would be actual photos of the screens--but let's not *over think* this!  Just report what the BIOS shows for the two HDDs--is the 40 GB Samsung *Primary Master* and is the 60 GB WD *Secondary Master*--or however you have them jumpered and attached?  And what is the default boot drive setting?  (You might be able to use the *Print Screen* key when in the BIOS to print a hard copy of your setup screens--so you don't have to write everything down!--one of my systems allows for that--the other it doesn't work!)

According to the *Max 9999 characters* limit I'm getting a flashing icon saying I'm running out of room (too much *quoting* above!  ;) )--so I will post this and continue in a separate post.

BodyAndSpirit


Quote:

So adding or removing hard drives and optical drives was just a simple matter of just removing the ribbon and the power cord from the power supply. I purposely configured it this way in order to avoid the possibility of forgetting to reset the jumpers or making as mistake in resetting the jumpers when I added or removed the drives.

Okay, regarding jumper settings--at least for trouble shooting, I'd strongly recommend using the *Cable Select* settings on all your drives!  Why?

1.  On more than one occasion, I have seen posts where someone has been having problems with the BIOS properly detecting a new HDD when the jumpers have been *manually* set, and when they changed to *Cable Select* the problem disappeared!

2.  Regarding your comments about forgetting to change or re-set jumpers correctly--if using *Cable Select*, there is no chance of *making a jumper* mistake!  And, I have never had to adjust any jumper setting on my system as I change drives around--because the position on the cable determines whether the drive is *master* or *slave*--if it's hooked to the black end connector the device will be the *master* on that IDE channel, and if it's hooked to the middle grey connector the device will be the *slave*--there is no *wrong* jumper setting!

3.  Your motherboard and drives should all be new enough to support *Cable Select*.

If you want to go back to *manual* jumper settings after trouble shooting--that's your choice!


Quote:

3) Previously to my first post on this board, the second optical drive was connected to a PCI card as a single master. So, the jumpers didn't need to be changed when a hard drive or optical drive was added or deleted. This is not a factor now, since the drive was disconnected before my first post.

Hmmmm.....is this PCI card still installed on the system?  This could be a confusion factor for the BIOS--this could introduce a change in how the system keeps track of device numbers as to who's first and who's second, etc.!  So, even if you don't get errors as far as using the drives--the system may be throwing off the software that's trying to sort things out--I would remove that PCI card for now while testing!


Quote:

Yes, the system is old...6 years in fact, but it was cutting edge at the time. And it does support hard drives bigger than 137 Gigs. If you take a look at page 14 of the manual, it supports "Ultra ATA-66/100 protocols". And my understanding that Ultra-100 protocols are necessary for drives larger than 137 Gigs. Elsewhere on the site, Intel confirms that it "supports 137 GB and larger IDE hard drives".   But regardless whether it does support drives larger than 137 GB, at this point however, I just want to get my computer working properly with 40 and 60 Gb drives.

You appear to have a *strongly held belief* regarding large HDD support:

1.  Links to the Intel documentation that supports your assertions?

2.  Why did you get this result when trying to add the 200 GB WD HDD if large HDDs are supported?:


Quote:

The 200 Gig WD drive did not work, as all I could get was 1.7 Gigs out of it.

I came across this WD document:  Jumper Settings WD SATA and EIDE Hard Drives.  It talks about using *Alternate Jumper Settings* that force the HDD to report a 2.1 GB size to the BIOS--were you using one of these *Alternate Jumper Settings*?:


Quote:

CAUTION: Use the jumper settings in Figure 6 only if you encounter the specific BIOS limitation (system locks up) described in this section. These jumper settings cause the drive to report 4092 cylinders (2.1 GB) rather than the actual drive capacity. If you use these jumper settings, you MUST use Data Lifeguard Tools™ to partition and format your hard drive to access the full capacity of your new drive.

3.  And why are you attempting to use Dynamic Disk Overlay (DDO) technology software if large HDD support is already present through hardware on your motherboard?  (I will comment more about this in a new posting later!)

I actually suspect that your motherboard does support larger HDD capacities--especially if you have the most recent BIOS version *P18*--usually the BIOS version in use is part of the initial boot screen and/or on the first screen when you enter the BIOS setup program--so you should be able to confirm the BIOS version that's in use.

BodyAndSpirit

Okay, now I have some spare time and I'm going to go back to the beginning....


Quote:

My computer configuration is: P4, 1.3 Gh, 1.28 MB Ram, Intel D850GB mobo

I'm sure that's a typo--that's less than the size of a 1.44 floppy disk!  Must have meant 128 MB--right?!


Quote:

The optional GoBack of NSW was also installed. I eventually learned that GoBack and DDO both installed their programs before the normal stuff of a hard drive. So dropping an image on it would not replace or wipe out the program. Nor would reformatting accomplish it.

Well, that depends--there are options that force Ghost to restore the original Master Boot Track (sectors 0 thru 62 of the HDD)--but I'm not too familiar with Ghost 10--I use Ghost 2003 in DOS and it has command line switches that allow you to control how Ghost handles the Master Boot Tract.  But I think there's a check box in Ghost 10 that you elect if you want the original Master Boot Record (MBR) restored that was created when the image was created.  But, whether that includes just absolute sector 0 (which contains only the Master Boot Record and the Master Partiton Table), or the whole tract (sectors 0 thru 62)--I don't know for sure.  

Norton GoBack and Dynamic Disk Overlays (DDO's)store their boot code in tracks 1 thru 62--sector 0 is reserved for the Master Boot Record and Master Partition Table.

So, let's talk about Norton GoBack for a moment!  My only working experience was with a friend's computer that we were adding Ghost 2003 to.  He had GoBack installed by the original OEM builder.  I was going to create a baseline Ghost image before we did any partitioning changes.  So, when the system boots, there's a brief splash screen for GoBack, and it gives you the option of pressing the spacebar to enter GoBacks settings program where you can change some of the startup settings--it's been a long time ago and I don't remember the details, but I think you had to enter this setup program and tell GoBack to load its drivers, but allow for booting from the floppy drive--or maybe it was you had to disable the GoBack drivers in order to boot from the floppy drive--whichever--once booted to DOS and proceding to load Ghost--there was a new message box saying the GoBack had been detected by Ghost, and the only backup option would be to do a *Sector-by-Sector* backup in order to be compatible with GoBack's presence!  And the message box asked if we wished to continue.  And we did without any problem being noted!

Now, a *Sector-by-Sector* backup includes all the empty space on the HDD, the data, and its exact location--I suspect that's needed because GoBack may be keeping track of that information.  But, I vaguely remember that the message box said all GoBack History would be lost if one proceeded with the Ghost image formation--so I don't fully know what the issues are/were!

I have to suspect that the entire Master Boot Track was being backed up as well--otherwise a restore to a replacement HDD, if that were needed, would have to have all of GoBack's code in sectors 1-62 if the restore was going to work correctly and restore GoBack's functionality as well.  But, again, I've not used GoBack--so I don't know the details.

The Ghost 2003 User Guide has this information about GoBack:


Quote:

GoBack and Norton Ghost If GoBack is installed on your computer, then you cannot directly create image files or restore your computer. You must disable GoBack before you use Norton Ghost wizards. GoBack and Ghost.exe To run Ghost.exe with GoBack, do one of the following: ■ Uninstall GoBack and then run Ghost.exe as usual to take an image or restore a computer. ■ To take an image of your computer, in the GoBack Boot Screen, select the option to start your computer from a floppy disk with the GoBack drivers loaded. You can then use a Ghost boot disk to start Ghost.exe and take an image file.

Looking at the Ghost 9 and Ghost 10 User Guides--I find no mention of compatibility issues with Norton GoBack--and doing a Google search also brings up nothing--so I have to think that Ghost 9 and 10 are designed to work with GoBack without problems and seamlessly in the background.

Having just said that--I don't know what that means in reality!  If you restore an image created by Ghost 10, I'm not sure if you will have the Master Boot Tract with GoBack code restored to the HDD as well--it would take some detailed testing to see what happens under what circumstances!  Being as you have *Zapped* the Master Boot Track already--this really isn't a problem--unless you restore one of those old images that were created while GoBack was installed on your system--then I don't know what the results would be!

Personally, I would not recommend using GoBack if you are going to use an imaging program to protect yourself in the event you need to restore your system!  As Dan Goodell has already mentioned--GoBack messes major with your Master Boot Tract--and you are only asking for future problems!

On my friends computer, I simply followed the *un-install instructions* of disabling GoBack, and then using the Windows Control Panel *Add/Remove Programs* applet to uninstall GoBack--it uninstalled without any problems--and all Ghost procedures worked just fine after the uninstall.

Is there a reason you didn't use GoBack's uninstall routine on your system?

I happened across this thread when Googling GoBack problems--it has a link to a Symantec program that can be run from DOS to remove GoBack from the HDD if you can not use the *normal* methods:  Incompatability with Norton Go Back --see reply #10:

ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/linked_files/GoBack/GB_Prog.exe

There's a couple other recommendations as well for someone having GoBack boot problems.

More later!

BodyAndSpirit


Quote:

I wondered if my BIOS is corrupted in some fashion. Reinstalled the bios but no change as my custom values remain the same. From what I understand, CMOS keeps the settings. Strangely, Intel does not seem to address how to return the bios to it's default values. Doe's anybody know how to do this?   The only alternative is to remove the battery. But for how long? I was able to determine that the custom settings of C-mos would be lost with the removal of the on-board battery for a half-hour. Being cautious I removed it for an hour and a half.

Well, removing the battery should work!  And you probably know that many motherboards come with a jumper set that allows you to *zero* the CMOS by setting the jumper to the *other pin* for x number of seconds.

But looking at your motherboard manual:  Exit Menu, I think you can first choose *Load Setup Defaults* first, and then *Exit Saving Changes* and that sequence will have put the factory defaults into the BIOS settings and then save those defaults to the CMOS--thus the system is back to the factory defaults.

And I guess that's all I'm going to say about that!

BodyAndSpirit


Quote:

In December I tried to install a 200 Gig Western Digital drive which had a Disk Drive Overlay Program (DDO). DDO conflicted with GoBack so I uninstalled GoBack. The 200 Gig WD drive did not work, as all I could get was 1.7 Gigs out of it. I couldn't uninstall the DDO as the installation disk had the uninstall part greyed out. Western Digital was absolutely no help as they kept refering to the uninstallation part of the installation disk which was greyed out.

Dynamic Disk Overlays (DDO):

Did the 200 GB WD HDD come with DDO already installed?  (That would be highly unusual.)

Did you attempt to install the DDO on the HDD?

I worked with attempting to install DDO on a HDD--been awhile back--can't remember the details--but a forum moderator, El_Pescador, was using it in conjunction with his USB drive and getting much faster I/O results--so I tried messing with it too.  I too had the uninstall option *greyed out* when I later tried to uninstall it!  

But, after working with it for awhile, I convinced myself that the initial attempt to install the DDO had actually failed!  The program executed, things flashed, and then it was done--no messages, errors, or whatever though.  I'm pretty sure the installation program saw that a DDO was not needed for my system to access the whole HDD capacity--and so simply did not install it--and therefore, there was nothing to uninstall--so that option was greyed out!

If a DDO is actually installed, then its code is loaded during boot--one should get a brief splash screen stating that it's loading, and give you options to by-pass it if you need to boot from a boot floppy--similar to what GoBack should have been doing!  If you never saw that boot message--then I doubt the DDO was ever installed--or at least not installed successfully!

BodyAndSpirit


Quote:

Then installed the rest of XP Home updates At this point no problems with the Ghost recovery environoment etc. Shut down and connected the secondary IDE cable to the mobo's Secondary IDE connector with the second hard drive connected as a master. Booted and got the message "NTLDR" is missing. Shut down, removed the secondary IDE cable from the mobo's Secondary IDE connector (thus removing the secondary hard drive). Rebooted with no problems. Does anybody have any suggestions?

Well, it sounds like it's too late to trouble shoot that--things have changed too much since then--but the most likely problem when you get a *NTLDR* missing message is that the BIOS is pointing to the wrong HDD as the default boot device (or the *boot.ini* file is pointing to the wrong partition or drive)--would have to be having the problem currently and then enter the BIOS or check the *boot.ini* file to see what the settings are.


Quote:

So, at this point, everything now "seems" to be ok. Yet, as a novice, I am not certain of this especially in light of your post. A puzzling matter... In the "View Partition Info" of the Utilities section of the recovery environment of Ghost 10,     Disk 1 is shown as my second drive     Disk 2 is shown as my first drive with my OS, XP. I am wondering if this is unique with my computer (and therefore there may portray unresolved issues and therefore I should follow the instructions of your last paragraph to the letter). Or whether Ghost 10 just bumps each new drive down in the listing. It would appear Ghost does not have a "Disk 0" as Windows does. I would ask someone who has a second drive to check this out with their Ghost 10.

That would be correct--Windows Disk Management begins its device numbering with *Zero*--the "View Partition Info" utility in Ghost 10's Recovery Environment (RE) begins its device numbering with *One*!

The "View Partition Info" utility in Ghost 10's Recovery Environment is actually PartitionMagic's Windows based NT Partition Information utility--PartitionMagic has forever use *One* as its first device--but technically in the computer engineering industry--the first device is usually designated as *Zero*!

The "View Partition Info" utility is *partinnt.exe* and is located on the Ghost 10 installation CD here:  X:\I386\SHELL\UTILITIES\PARTINNT.EXE.  You can run that program from your WinXP OS by putting the installation CD in the CD drive and clicking on the program from Windows Explorer.

Here's my results of running *partinnt.exe* from WinXP:

http://nightowl.radified.com/forumimages/PartInfoNT.JPG

Here's the version information from the *partinnt.exe* properties:  

http://nightowl.radified.com/forumimages/PartInfoNTversion.JPG

Here's the results of Windows Disk Management:

http://nightowl.radified.com/forumimages/DiskMgmt.JPG


So, don't worry about the beginning number--that's a programing decision--and not a problem!

But the report of the devices being reversed in Ghost 10's RE as compared to Windows order--that is troubling!  I checked my drive listing in the Ghost 10's RE--and my drives are reported in the same order there as in Windows--unlike your reported reversed order!

I am curious--which drive is reported first and which second when you run the *partinnt.exe* from within WinXP rather than from the Ghost 10 RE?

Hi NightOwl

Wow! Your reply has a lot of stuff .   :)

I am working on my return post but have hit a bit of a snag.

It has to do with providing you with images. I thought it would be a simple matter of following your example such as:

“ http://nightowl.radified.com/forumimages/PartInfoNT.JPG”

My problem is that I do not have a website.   :-[

Is there a way I can get the images to the site.

B

Oops, I thought putting the address in quotes would just give the address (as an example).

Instead it gave your jpeg.

B.

BodyAndSpirit

To create your screen shoot, you can use *Print Screen* to make a screen shot (Alt + Print Screen to capture just the *active* window), open PaintBrush, paste the screen shot to PaintBrush, crop the picture if it's needed, and then save as a *JPEG* type file for posting to the Web!

You have to have your images hosted online and use that online location to pull in the image with this forum's software.

Several folks have given *thumbs up* to the Photobucket that apparently will host your images for free.

Here's the coding--in the *Reply-Preview* page where you format your response--the 3rd formatting button from the left in the top row is *Insert Image*--you get this in your message box if you press it:

{img][/img]

I had to change the first *[* to *{* in order for the code to show up in the forum--otherwise I get a box with a red *X* in it when posting it to the forum.

So the syntax is as follows--you place this information between the two image code brackets:  *website address/sub-directory name if needed/filename*--so it looks like this

{img]http://website.com/sub-directory/FILENAME HERE[/img]

If you want to see how someone else has coded to perform a given task on the forum, you can use the *Quote* link for a given posting, you can then review the *code* that's being used that's of interest to you.

********

The coding shows up like this if that first *[* is in place:   http://website.com/sub-directoryifused/FILENAMEHERE

:-?I haven't had a problem in the past with GoBack, and it's saved my a** on many occasions, but I am concerned about it's replacing the MBR. In any event, my new laptop runs Vista, which doesn't support GoBack. Does anyone have info on/experience with Rollback Rx? Does it also replace the MBR? Does it cause problems with NSR 1 or 2(Ghost 11 or 12)?

Bill Zigrang

Zig

Don't have any experience with the products you are using--so no answer there--hopefully someone else will come along who can shed some light.


Quote:

NSR 1 or 2(Ghost 11 or 12)?

But, Symantec has thrashed any coherence to the chronological naming of their products between their Ghost products for the *consumer* vs their *corporate* (enterprise) versions.

You can look here:  Ghost history from Wikipedia, and here:  Radified Forum's FAQs to see a summary of Ghost's version history.

As I read it, NSR 1 is like Ghost 10, but with *file/folder* backup options added.

And NSR 2 has Vista compatibility and is like Ghost 12, but with fewer options.

Ghost 11 is the corporate (enterprise) version that comes in the *Ghost Solution Suite 2.x*.

Did that all make sense  ::) -- oh, well!

Hey NightOwl:

All I can say at this point is “Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”  ;D ;D ;D

But first, I’d like to apologize for the time it took me to respond. The length of the post and a family emergency is the reason for the delay.

My original draft to your posts was longer than this one. It was obvious your knowledge surpassed mine, so I started it with a declaration of my intent to follow your lead. What happened next caused me to turf those pages.

On, getting back to my computer today, I put into effect your suggestions about:
1)      Putting both drives on the Primary IDE cable
2)      Putting them on cable select.

On impulse, I decided to check the new configuration by booting Ghost and problem solved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Ghost 10 and XP are on the same page (figuratively speaking) with respect to drive identification!!!!!!!!!!!   :) :) :)

Shut down and put back the old configuration (40 gig XP drive as master on primary cable and 60 gig drive as master on the secondary cable) but didn’t change the cable select setting, rebooted and was back to the problem.

Put it back as you suggested and problem solved! ;)

I could go into detail about my sisters computer documentation recommended “my configuration” and so-called experts recommended “my configuration” for optimum efficiency, but the point is you were so right! :)

I cannot thank you enough for solving a perplexing problem, which I now realize, has plagued me for all of 2007!

It may be a good idea to put matters into some sort of perspective.

2001. My computer came with ME. Like many other users, ME did not work all that well for me.

2002. Windows XP was introduced in October, 2001 but I waited to purchase it til early 2002 as I wanted to be sure of not substituting one buggy OS with another. Didn’t do a clean install, just updated ME to XP.

2003 Jan/Feb or March. After a year, XP wasn’t working right either. So did a clean install. Jotted down the Bios settings which show both drives on the same cable! <== note: same cable.

2005 Bought 1 gig of memory bringing my memory up to 1.125 gigs (or even more correctly 1.152 gigs). You quite correctly questioned the memory I had in MBs.

2006 Boxing day. Bought some games that required a lot of ram and virtual memory. I don’t actually remember changing the cabling, but do remember wanting to do it, so I probably changed the cabling of the 60 gig drive to the master of the secondary cable at that time. I do remember changing the settings for my pagefiles (virtual memory) to the second drive. Both was done with the intent of increasing the efficiency by which the computer retrieved and saved data.

2007 Things started to go wrong. NOTE: Up to this point, I had no problems for 4 years.
1)      My USB mouse wouldn’t operate right…changed to PS2.
2)      Saving/Copying with InstantCD/DVD to the Optical drive would not work or if it did save/copy, Ghost often wouldn’t recognize the image. Removing InstantCD/DVD and using Nero didn’t change matters.
3)      Computer would often crash when opening a blank CD.
4)      On shutdown, the computer would often report errors.
5)      The computer would not mechanically shut down.
6)      There were other problems, but the culminating point came in June when my PS2 mouse clicks were no longer instant but often required a second for the mouse click to take effect.

In spite of the mechanical effects, my programs and games continued to work well.

2007, June. Backed up my important data to hard drive. Saved Ghost images to hard drive. Performed a clean install of XP. XP would not recognize the partitions of my second hard drive. Used Ghost 10 in recovery mode and it recognized the second drive with its partitions and was able to save my data and some Ghost images. Repartitioned my second drive

As the months progressed some of the symptoms mentioned above started showing up. But I didn’t recognize them since:

1)      Wasn’t applicable as I just kept using the PS2 mouse (i.e. never connected a USB mouse).
2)      Was not applicable, as I never installed any burning software. Used Ghost 10 to take cold-images.
3)      Wasn’t applicable for the same reason as 2)
4)      I did have shutdown error reports.
5)      The computer still mechanically shut down
6)      My PS2 mouse clicks occasionally took longer, but generally were instant.

It was when I responded to Brian’s post, and read the comment in the first paragraph of your first post  “--and I doubt GoBack was/is the culprit.” that I started to wonder if the problem may not be with GoBack but with something much earlier in the first half of 2007.

2007 November/December. Was worried about my data, so purchased the 200 gig Western Digital Drive for this purpose (in case XP wouldn’t recognize my 60 gig hard drive again). A friend gave me his IDE PCI card as he purchased a new computer and didn’t need it. With all the changing of cables etc I cannot remember if I had the WD drive mastered on the PCI card or as a slave on the secondary ribbon to the motherboard.

Problems occurred with the 200 gig WD drive as described earlier.

2007. mid-December. Installed a 250 gig USB drive as an archive drive and successfully saved my data and Ghost images to it. Also purchased an internal 320 gig Seagate PATA/100 hard drive but haven’t opened the package yet.

2008. Did a XP clean install as follows.

1)      With the 40 gig mastered and DVD slaved to the primary ribbon and secondary ribbon removed, partitioned the 40 gig into two, reformatted and installed XP, but didn’t activate or register.
2)      Took a Ghost 10 cold image of C-drive.
3)      Disconnected the DVD cabling (slave), Booted and activated and registered XP. Also formatted the second partition of C-drive as “D”
4)      Shutdown, connected the cabling to the DVD as a slave on the primary cable and took a Ghost 10 cold image of C-drive
5)      Rebooted and installed XP updates to SP2
6)      Took a Ghost 10 cold image of C-drive
7)      Installed Intel’s INF and IDE drivers
8)      Took a Ghost 10 cold image of C-drive
9)      Installed balance of XP updates
10)       Took a Ghost 10 cold image of C-drive

At this point, I now don’t actually remember “when” I connected the secondary IDE cable to the 60 gig hard drive as a master except to say it was definitely after 6) above. However, according to my reply #3, it was after 10) above.

And again, the WD drive partitions of the 60 gig drive were not recognized by XP and I had to repartition and reformat the drive.

With respect to your post #20 and the Ghost 10 installation CD X:\1386\SHELL\UTILITIES\PARINNT.EXE, Disk 1 and Disk 2 are now showing correctly (like your example) whereas previously they were reversed when both drives were not on the same cable.

My PARTINNT.EXE Properties is the same as your example.

I didn’t think it was necessary to send any images, as everything seems OK.

I don’t know if the following is of any use, but in case it is…

In the order of its location from the AGP Connector (E) on page 9, the slots are
1)      Empty                                        (DD) PCI bus add-in card connector
2)      IDE card                                    (DD) PCI bus add-in card connector
3)      USB card                                  (DD) PCI bus add-in card connector
4)      Sound Card                  (DD) PCI bus add-in card connector
5)      High Speed Cable modem        (DD) PCI bus add-in card connector
6)      Empty                                (EE)  Communication and Networking Riser

My thoughts at the moment are:

1)      XP may be corrupted (even in a minor way) when I installed the WD 200 gig drive as a master on the secondary cable to the motherboard.
2)      Because of 1) above, I feel I should drop a Ghost 10 image (C-drive with XP updates) onto C-drive.
3)      Check that both drives are configured properly in Disk Management and Ghost RE and if so,
4)      Install all my other software.
5)      Wait a few weeks/months to see if the “problems” as listed above re-manifest themselves.

What do you think?

I’d also like to connect these devices.
1)      I/O Magic re-writable DVD +-RW
2)      Sony re-writable DL DVD +-RW
3)      Seagate 320 gig PATA/100 hard drive


I have the following options:
1)      Secondary cable from the motherboard.
2)      Primary cable from the PCI card
3)      Secondary cable from the PCI card.
all with master and slave connections not being used.

You did point out that my hard drives should be on the primary cable to the motherboard. My "conclusion" that having both drives on the same cable as solving the problem may be somewhat overly optimistic at this time, but it certainly seems to fit with the facts. If you think otherwise, please let me know.

In retrospect, I should have realized the problem goes back a year.

Again, thanks so much for resolving (hopefully) my problem.

B.

Zig wrote on Jan 13^th, 2008 at 2:43am:

:-?I haven't had a problem in the past with GoBack, and it's saved my a** on many occasions, but I am concerned about it's replacing the MBR. In any event, my new laptop runs Vista, which doesn't support GoBack. Does anyone have info on/experience with Rollback Rx? Does it also replace the MBR? Does it cause problems with NSR 1 or 2(Ghost 11 or 12)? Bill Zigrang

Hey Zig

I've used GoBack hundreds of times. Maybe even into the thousands. I just loved it. And had no problems with it till now and even that is in question.

Like you, I am looking for an alternative.

I don't remember of the name of the company which created the product, but it is franchised out.

One franchise has labled it "Rollback Rx" and is selling it for $69.00 if memory serves me right.

The same product, but franchised under a different name is EAZ-FIX for $49.00.

There is at least one other franchised version, but EAZ-FIX is the cheapest I could find, and is the one I intend to buy within the next few days.

B.

Hey Zig

Re EAZ-FIX/Rollback Rx

That is I intend to buy it if it doesn't affect the MBR.   ;)

My impression is that it doesn't and maybe a more knowledgeable person on this website would know for sure.

B.

BodyAndSpirit


Quote:

On impulse, I decided to check the new configuration by booting Ghost and problem solved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!     Ghost 10 and XP are on the same page (figuratively speaking) with respect to drive identification!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, that was good to hear!


Quote:

Shut down and put back the old configuration (40 gig XP drive as master on primary cable and 60 gig drive as master on the secondary cable) but didn’t change the cable select setting, rebooted and was back to the problem.

Hmmmm....not so good to hear!!!!


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I could go into detail about my sisters computer documentation recommended “my configuration” and so-called experts recommended “my configuration” for optimum efficiency, but the point is you were so right!

Thank you for the kudos--but I think I'm partially wrong as well!!!

To be honest, I thought the *cable select* would be the solution--putting the second HDD on the same controller channel--well, if you go back and re-read--that was supposed to be a recommendation to improve performance--not necessarily to solve which drive was first and which was second!!!

I'm afraid we will still have to conclude there is something *not quite right* about how your system is enumerating your storage devices on the IDE channels.

Question:  did you pull the PCI add-on controller--or is it still plugged in?  You might want to experiment with your system a little bit before going forward.


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My thoughts at the moment are: 1)      XP may be corrupted (even in a minor way) when I installed the WD 200 gig drive as a master on the secondary cable to the motherboard. 2)      Because of 1) above, I feel I should drop a Ghost 10 image (C-drive with XP updates) onto C-drive. 3)      Check that both drives are configured properly in Disk Management and Ghost RE and if so,   4)      Install all my other software.   5)      Wait a few weeks/months to see if the “problems” as listed above re-manifest themselves.

That would be an acceptable plan.  And your other suggestions are okay, too.

But, if I were you--you have two large capacity HDD's--the 200 GB and the 320 GB--I would do some testing to see if it had something to do with putting two different brands of HDD together, or some other combination.  I'd zero out the two drives--remove the 40 and 60 GB HDDs, and start over using the two larger drives to see if the same thing happens with them as well!!

I would also first remove the PCI add-on controller to see if that's the culprit!!!

Based on everything you have reported, I think the problem is pointing to some sort of BIOS incompatibility with perhaps that PCI card and/or the combination of HDDs hooked up!!!

Technically--there should be no issue of which controller you hook up your devices too--again my suggestion for the two HDD on the same controller was more an optimization recommendation.

Let us know what you decide to do, and report back on how things are going--I will be interested to hear!

Reading through this thread again, I'm so happy to hear that some folks have actually used GOBack and got good results.....

But as a technician who's worked on literally thousands of PC's over the past 27 years, I share the feelings of many other techs when I say that GoBack may be OK when it's working correctly, but when a HD glitch disables it, or corrupts it, you've effectively just LOST your HD and everything on it.  

It's not a program we see every day, so when it fouls up a HD and you can't access anything, there's no pat answer as to how to perform a recovery.  
So far, I've never seen a "Screwed Up GoBack Recovery Tool".

Most PC Service Dept's won't even try.  They reformat the HD and reload the OS and start over.

I think, NO I KNOW, that the better solution is to make a Ghost Image to a bootable DVD or to a second HD at least once a week and be assured that your valuable data is SAFE from destruction.  On most modern PC's, that process only takes just a few minutes.

Another problem with any program that only saves info to the same drive the OS is on, is that when that drive squalls, balls and smokes, the backup copy is gone right along with the master.  That's kind of fool-hardy to say the least.
And, most computers that came with GoBack installed, only have one HD. :'(

You'll find more horror stories on the internet about GoBack than for any virus.

Sorry, I got a little long-winded there.

Y'all have a great day now, Y'hear!
The Shadow  8-)