I have a small 17" screen which is affected by the scaling (?) for different screen sizes. When I have the Favorites Panel open on the left hand side it looks like this at the top:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/Engdahl/RADIFIED/RAD-top.jpg

and like this way down:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/Engdahl/RADIFIED/RAD-waydown.jpg

This is how it looks without the Favorites Panel:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/Engdahl/RADIFIED/RAD-nofavorites.jpg

Strange ... :-/ ... and in this post, the images get cropped at the right hand side when turning on the Favorites Panel.

Christer

I scaled mine all the way to the right with the bookmarks sidebar open, and it did not push the graphic to the bottom.  I'm on a 19" monitor, so I don't think it would be too different...

Perhaps it has to do with the tabless layout Rad used, and your display settings?

I'm using 1280 X 1024 if that is any indicator for you.

I'm using 1024x768. If I drag the right hand border of the Favorites Panel ever so slightly to the left, the graphics pop back up.

Christer

hi christer.

thanks for taking the time to post the screen shots.

am i correct is saying that you see no anomylies with the favorites panel closed?

what version of ie are you using?

what is your screen resolution?

do you open the favorites panel *after* loading the page?

if you hit refresh AFTER the page has loaded, does that correct the display problem?

btw - who is that handsome man in the screen shot?  ;)

i use a 1280-wide rez screen (laptop), so that is my base of design.

good designers make allowences for all different operating systems (including mac), different browsers, different versions of browsers, and different resolutions for each of these variables. i simply do not have the time to be this thorough.

my theory is that folks who visit radified are technolusters who like to have/use the latest/greatest hardware. so i don't even look at anything less than 1024-wide. the height rez is rather meaningless, cuz less height merely means more scrolling.

using the particular page layout i have, there is verbiage mentioning that problems could crop into pages viewed on a screen 800 pixel wide if i include images in the center section that are wider than 300 pixels. (which i do/use).

so i'm guessing off the top of my head you are either using 800x600, or (more likely, since you don't have the problem with the panel closed) you are effectively converting your page-view to 800-ish wide when you open the side fav's panel.

mainContent is the center section. from the page comments:


Quote:

/* Tips for mainContent: 1. the space between the mainContent and sidebars is created with the left and right margins on the mainContent div. 2. to avoid float drop at a supported minimum 800 x 600 resolution, elements within the mainContent div should be 300px or smaller (this includes images). 3. in the Internet Explorer Conditional Comment below, the zoom property is used to give the mainContent "hasLayout." This avoids several IE-specific bugs. */

that looks like float drop you're experiencing. i will look into keeping my images in that center section less than 300 pixels.

Christer wrote on May 8^th, 2008 at 6:15pm:

I'm using 1024x768. If I drag the right hand border of the Favorites Panel ever so slightly to the left, the graphics pop back up.

This seems to confirm my theory that you're experiencing float drop due to narrowing of you page-view rez combined with my using images greater than 300 pixels wide.

for example, this image is 405 pixels wide. i knew that would create problems for some viewers:

http://radified.com/gfx2/vps2.jpg

Hi Rad!

My comments inserted into the quote:


Rad wrote on May 8^th, 2008 at 6:31pm:

hi christer. thanks for taking the time to post the screen shots. You're welcome ... :) ... ! I don't know for how long they will remain at Photobucket but sooner or later, they will be removed. am i correct is saying that you see no anomylies with the favorites panel closed? YES what version of ie are you using? IE6 what is your screen resolution? 1024x768 do you open the favorites panel *after* loading the page? NO, I like having it there but close it when a scrolling bar appears at the bottom. No scrolling bar appeared but I closed it to see what happened. if you hit refresh AFTER the page has loaded, does that correct the display problem? NO, when I open or refresh the same happens. It is briefly (less than a second) at the top but then drops down. btw - who is that handsome man in the screen shot?  ;) He looks suspicious to me ... ;D ... ! i use a 1280-wide rez screen (laptop), so that is my base of design. good designers make allowences for all different operating systems (including mac), different browsers, different versions of browsers, and different resolutions for each of these variables. i simply do not have the time to be this thorough. my theory is that folks who visit radified are technolusters who like to have/use the latest/greatest hardware. so i don't even look at anything less than 1024-wide. the height rez is rather meaningless, cuz less height merely means more scrolling. using the particular page layout i have, there is verbiage mentioning that problems could crop into pages viewed on a screen 800 pixel wide if i include images in the center section that are wider than 300 pixels. (which i do/use). so i'm guessing off the top of my head you are either using 800x600, or (more likely, since you don't have the problem with the panel closed) you are effectively converting your page-view to 800-ish wide when you open the side fav's panel. It seems like this is the case. I reduce the 1024 to less than 800 by opening the Favorites Panel. Resizing the FP slightly brings the viewing width above 800. mainContent is the center section. from the page comments: Quote: /* Tips for mainContent: 1. the space between the mainContent and sidebars is created with the left and right margins on the mainContent div. 2. to avoid float drop at a supported minimum 800 x 600 resolution, elements within the mainContent div should be 300px or smaller (this includes images). 3. in the Internet Explorer Conditional Comment below, the zoom property is used to give the mainContent "hasLayout." This avoids several IE-specific bugs. */ that looks like float drop you're experiencing. i will look into keeping my images in that center section less than 300 pixels.

Christer,

Today I moved all of April's entries to their own monthly archive page:

http://radified.com/Archives/april_2008.html

The remainder of images contained in May's entries are considerable less-wide than those posted in some of April's entries.

So I would expect the problems you previously experienced with viewing the home page to either be eliminated or lessened.

Have you noticed an improvement?

http://radified.com/index.rad

Rad,

I adjusted the width of the Favorites Panel to let the page display as intended but now I have played around a bit.

On http://radified.com/index2.html I can now extend the FP further than before, much further but there is a limit.

On http://radified.com/Archives/april_2008.html it behaves like before.

I also noticed that there is a difference between having the window maximized or not:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/Engdahl/RADIFIED/maximized.jpg
Maximized

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/Engdahl/RADIFIED/slightlyreduced.jpg
Reduced very slightly, you hardly notic the difference but the width of the FP is the same

Christer

As Rad said, this is "float drop", a well-known bug in IE6, and bug it is - pure and simple. This is just going to happen on any website that uses proper CSS layout as long as you're using that browser with its many, many violations of the W3C specs. This isn't the only bug in IE6 like this, there are literally dozens.

There are workarounds for IE6 that Rad could try such as the ones here but honestly, the violence Rad needs to do to the CSS just to convince IE6 not to screw it up such a simple layout task is extremely nasty - nasty to the point that it ends up hurting the maintainability of things pretty badly.

People who get paid money to work around such things for websites that make money have to put up with this kind of thing, but it's not really a good use of Rad's time. Ultimately the reality is that IE6 isn't up to the job of rendering properly CSS-styled pages. For Rad's sanity, I wouldn't recommend he try and struggle to support IE6 using CSS hacks but if he does anything, shunts IE6 off to a penalty box along with reduced-function devices like mobile phones and PSPs and arranges for Apache to give a simpler page that doesn't use CSS layout.

Christer wrote on May 19^th, 2008 at 2:53am:

On http://radified.com/Archives/april_2008.html it behaves like before.

Yeah, that's cuz the (same) offending wide graphic has been moved to that page. That is what I would've expected.


Christer wrote on May 19^th, 2008 at 2:53am:

I also noticed that there is a difference between having the window maximized or not:

Maximized should give you more pixels to play with, and there delay the point at which the float for you drops.


wrote on May 19^th, 2008 at 3:41am:

this is "float drop", a well-known bug in IE6

It surprises me that folks folks still use (buggy) IE6, when IE7 have been available since .. Oct/Nov 2006? Do I have my date correct?


wrote on May 19^th, 2008 at 3:41am:

There are workarounds for IE6 that Rad could try such as the ones here but honestly, the violence Rad needs to do to the CSS just to convince IE6 not to screw it up such a simple layout task is extremely nasty - nasty to the point that it ends up hurting the maintainability of things pretty badly.

"the violence" .. yeah, I've been reading up on IE6 'hacks' (they're called). If I were a web design professional when IE6 was the rage .. I think I'd slit my wrists.

Rad wrote on May 19^th, 2008 at 9:43pm:

If I were a web design professional when IE6 was the rage .. I think I'd slit my wrists

Compared to the Mac port of IE5, IE6 is a day at a theme park. Not that Mac users ever got much love until just recently, Safari 2 was a pretty wretched excuse for a browser too.

Rad,


Quote:

Maximized should give you more pixels to play with, and there delay the point at which the float for you drops.

Yes but it is the opposite. When maximized, the center drops down but comes back up when clicking the "reduce window size" button.


Quote:

It surprises me that folks folks still use (buggy) IE6, when IE7 have been available since ..

I have tried IE7 but it screwed up Acrobat Distiller. With IE6 installed, it printed vertically oriented text perfectly but not with IE7. I did a trial installation of Acrobat 8 but the result was the same. I don't know if it has been fixed but I doubt there will be a fix for my old version and I will not upgrade to any more recent version that gets fixed. Conclusion: I stay with IE6!

(I even tried some freeware PDF creators but they were even worse. Vertically oriented text seems to be a problem.)

I'm planning a clean install of XP pro with SP3 slipstreamed. I will try to slap on IE7 prior to installing Acrobat 6 to see if that sequence fixes the problem. I will not be holding my breath ... :-/ ... but rather my Ghost 2003 boot disks!

Christer

Rad,
it's happening again. I've made no changes to my settings or the size of the Favorites side panel (or whatever it's called in english). Have you made any changes?

Christer

r u talking about the homepage?

the graphic i included today is 3330 wide.

i normally try to keep them < 300 pixels.

i try cropping it more tightly.

okay, 296.

how's that?

Yes, the homepage and at 296 it works fine!

OKay, so we are dealing with a window here .. 296 is okay .. 330 is too big. Plus I have an 8-pixel margin on the left of those images.

Comments on the web page template for that particular style (3-column liquid/fluid) suggest keeping all gfx less than 300 pixels .. to avoid situations such as you are experiencing.

When you upgrade to nex browser and/or bigger monitor, this will become moot.

I will probably build a new BOAC in the near future and also buy a bigger monitor but still run XP pro and IE6. (I have not seen anything in Vista that I need and have decided to skip that version of Windows and wait for Windows 7.)

Christer

BOAC?

For me, that'll always stand for the British Overseas Airways Corporation, which handled the flights to our colony (often via flying boat) in the early days of commercial flight.

I had the same issue as Christer on the front page.  

Yeah, I'm running IE6.  Got my reasons.  19" monitor @ 1152x864.

Reason I'm commenting is I got the page to show its content by clicking the full-screen (Maximize) button.  Hmmm...then I discovered when displaying a few pixels less than full-screen I could stretch it enough to make the content show.

Quote:

BOAC?

Box Of Assembled Components ... ;) ... meaning a computer you built yourself.

Christer