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Rad Community Technical Discussion Boards (Computer Hardware + PC Software) >> Cloning Programs (Except Norton Ghost) >> BootIt NG http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1237655769 Message started by Dirk B on Mar 21st, 2009 at 12:16pm |
Title: BootIt NG Post by Dirk B on Mar 21st, 2009 at 12:16pm
Hello, this is my first post. First I'd like to thank whomever it is that operates this discussion board. I have no knowledge as to how they operate, but I'm glad they are. Is there anyone here who has experience/knowledge with BootIt NG? I'm primarily interested in using it as a boot manager, but also for imaging. Thanks in advance for any advice/help that might be put forth.
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Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 21st, 2009 at 12:26pm
@ Dirk B
BING is one of my favourite apps. Most of your questions will be answered here... http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/index.htm How many OS are you planning to use? |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 21st, 2009 at 12:31pm
Did not know BootIT NG had imaging capabilities. Thot it was strictly a boot manager.
Does BING have good imaging capabilities? Basic only? What is rationale of combining a boot manager with imaging client (or vice versa). Why one of your favorites? (that's a big vote for them) |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Dirk B on Mar 21st, 2009 at 12:33pm
Thanks for the quick response Brian! Well, what I would like to do is: I just purchased a 1TB HDD. I'd like to partition it into several (I understand that I am not limited to 4 primary partitions with BootIt NG) primary partitions and run several different Windows XP/software configurations. What I'd like to do after partitioning is restore a base configuration of the OS to each partition, and then proceed with different application installations on the various drives. Is this something that is not too challenging? I am only moderately technically savvy, but willing to learn.
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Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 21st, 2009 at 12:43pm
Dirk B,
That will be a dream. First up, I do use unlimited primaries. I hesitated for the first six months as I didn't understand the concept but now I wouldn't go back to limited primaries. There is a video on the page I posted that outlines what you need to do. Create your partitions. Install a single WinXP. Copy the partition to unallocated space, multiple times. Set up Boot menus (called Boot Edit). |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Dirk B on Mar 21st, 2009 at 12:51pm
I've tried to do this (albeit with just 4 primary drives) using Norton Partition Magic, but it only boots from the first primary drive. When I use PQBOOT to change the active drive and then boot from it, it says 'Operating System Not Found' Do you have any experience with PM? If so, should what I did have worked?
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Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 21st, 2009 at 2:29pm Dirk B wrote on Mar 21st, 2009 at 12:51pm:
Yes. Before BING I used pqboot and it worked well. 'Operating System Not Found' suggests the OS hasn't been set active and that is what pqboot is supposed to do. When you look with PM, is the chosen OS "active"? Edit.... Are you referring to booting an OS from the second HD? pqboot can't do that. PM either. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by TheShadow on Mar 22nd, 2009 at 6:45am
I'm finding this thread very interesting, although I've never heard of BootIt NG.
But while reading about multiple OS's on a single drive, I'm reminded of years ago when I tried that myself. One day that HD crashed and I lost two OS's and all the associated files, not just one OS. Since then, I take a more "Old School" approach to running multiple OS's. On both of my computers, an OLD one and a NEW one, I can get into the BIOS boot menu by just tapping the F11 key during boot-up. It looks something like this: I'm currently running two Maxtor 160 gig SATA2 drives for Vista Ult. and Win-7 and a Maxtor 200 gig SATA2 for XP-Pro. Each drive is backed up by Ghost, to another drive, so if one drive shoots craps, I have a backup that's easily restored to a new drive. My main drive, my XP drive, is also backed up to a bootable DVD, for Off-Site storage. NO WAY in this lifetime, would I ever put all my eggs in one basket. Every HD will fail ! The question is not IF but when and we never know when. Just a thought. Shadow 8-) |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 22nd, 2009 at 2:46pm
@ Rad
Rad wrote on Mar 21st, 2009 at 12:31pm:
Yes, image and restore from the boot disk (Floppy, CD or USB) or from BING installed on the HD. Validate function is present too. You can also do partition clones but not whole HD clones. Until about a year ago all TeraByte Unlimited imaging products made compatible images. They could restore images made by each other. A year ago, version 2 of IFW, IFD, IFL was released and these images aren't compatible with BING images. No big deal but we are waiting for ver 2 BING. The version 2 products are faster than ver 1. Unlike Partition Magic, BING is able to work with 2048 sector offset partitions as well as our familiar cylinder aligned partitions. BING contains a BCD Edit tool to fix Vista if you have a boot problem. There is a tool to zero the diskID which is handy if you have drive letter issues after cloning an OS. When multi-booting, you can choose from a Boot Menu at startup or you can choose the next item to boot by double clicking a shortcut in Windows. An OS on any HD can be booted. DOS can be booted from a partition anywhere on the HD. The 2 or 8 GB limit doesn't apply. The unlimited primary partitions ability is interesting. Over 200 primaries are supported. Partition data is stored in other sectors of Track 0, beyond the standard MBR. However, when an item is booted you can still only have up to 4 primary partitions in the standard LBA-0 partition table. When you set up the partition table for a boot item you would select the OS partition and any data partitions that you want to be seen when the OS has booted. In Disk Management, all other partitions are shown as Unallocated Space so Disk Management must not be used for partitioning when unlimited primaries are in use. If you desire, you can have several Extended Partitions but only one can be present in a boot item's quota of up to 4 primary partitions. And BING fits on a floppy. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Dan Goodell on Mar 22nd, 2009 at 8:06pm
I, too, am a fan of BootIt-NG. Brian's given a good description of its capabilities. I began using it about 9 yrs ago when I was looking for a boot manager that would support LBA booting of partitions beyond the then-new 8-GB barrier. (It's worked so well that I must confess I had not even paid any attention to Terabyte's version 2 stuff until Brian enlightened me to the scope of the improvements.)
BootIt-NG is a combination of Terabyte's boot manager, partition manager, and partition imager, all rolled into a single self-booting floppy! At $35, you won't find a better value anywhere, especially when the competition often charges twice that much for just one of those three utilities. Rad wrote: "Does BING have good imaging capabilities? Basic only?" Depends on what you mean by basic. Everything Terabyte does is done conservatively, which makes it rock solid and reliable but sometimes that means things are left out. For instance, the partitioner will format FAT32 and linux partitions, but not NTFS. Consider that NTFS is a proprietary format, for which Microsoft has never actually released the specs. To guarantee you get an error-free format, BING will create the partition but expects you to use a Microsoft tool to actually format the file system. Terabyte's v1 products would only clone/restore to partitions of the same size as the original, forcing you to deal with partition resizing and cloning as two separate tasks. The v2 products can do both together, so I guess David (the developer) now feels he doesn't need to take such a conservative approach. And talk about conservative... he spent 10 yrs tweaking version 1 (and all have been free upgrades, I might add), while Ghost has been through... how many versions? OTOH, while some folks here have spent countless hours customizing special Ghost 2003 boot disks, BootIt-NG has for some time included built-in support for numerous enhancements like USB, NTFS aligned, and 2048-aligned partitions. Brian wrote: "BING contains a BCD Edit tool to fix Vista if you have a boot problem." IMHO, BING's BCD editor is also much easier to use than most alternatives, and easily fixes up what Ghost 2003 is incapable of handling. There have been questions about Ghost 2003's compatibility with Vista in other threads. Even though Ghost 2003 doesn't support Vista, I can use it to image/clone a Vista OS partition, then use BING's BCD editor, and the clone works fine. Brian wrote: "DOS can be booted from a partition anywhere on the HD. The 2 or 8 GB limit doesn't apply." For the sake of accuracy, that depends on the DOS version. MS-DOS 6.22, Microsoft's last official DOS version, did not know LBA addressing, so cannot see anything beyond the first 8 GB of the disk. DOS 7.1 (the version underlying Windows 98SE but never separately released) understood LBA, so isn't bound by the 8 GB limit--or even the 137 GB limit, for that matter. Other DOS variants, such as later versions of DR-DOS, FreeDOS, and Dell's DRMK are also not constrained. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 11:33am
Well, fact that both Brian & Dan are fans, means I'm interested. Been looking for an alternative to Ghost, since I've had a few problems with it not creating an image (tho never with it not restoring, which would be a much nastier problem).
For some reason NG14 has been getting stuck at 5% calculating time to image (C drive to external USB) .. resulting destination folder on external drive containing 0 bytes (nada). No disk-activity .. no CPU usage. Can't even cancel back-up job .. have to reboot to clear it. I've always been able to resolve my NG14 probs by uninstalling, running the Norton Removal Tool and re-installing. I suspect the problem is due to a conflict with some other software on my laptop. But I've had to do the uninstall/reinstall deal twice now (2nd time just last night). This suks due to all the req'd reboots. I like that Terabyte has been in biz ~ a decade, so no new-comer to the imaging world. And I like that Dan says: Quote:
since reliability is most important to me. And I especially like that I can *create* an image from bootable media .. which I can't do with NG14. I really don't like that NG14 won't let me create an image from bootable media. I tried TrueImage Home 2009, but those imaging operations reported as 'failed'. Lotsa disk activity to start, but ultimately 0 bytes in destination folder. Thanks for sharing. Are you guys using this as your *primary* imaging utility? |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 12:30pm Brian wrote on Mar 22nd, 2009 at 2:46pm:
What's the skinny with BING.2? Coming soon? What other products combine boot mgr with partitioning + imaging? Paragon? Acronis? Quote:
All 3 utilities, or just the imaging part? What's the procedure to create a bootable CD? (Nevermind. I see on the PDF they use make disk. I prolly create a *.iso and burn using Nero.) Guess my last question would be .. do you see any problem installing BING alongside NG14? If I am primarily interested in imaging, should I go with one of the other products, such as IFW or IFD? What's the diff between these products and the imaging utilty that comes with BING? If I have GRUB/Ubuntu already installed as multi-boot, do you forsee problem? would be happy to just make a bootable CD and use BING's imaging feature that way .. if possible. Why would somebody need more than 4 primary partitions? .. since Windows can boot from extended/logical drives. How about Daemon Tools, which I use? Any conflicts there? |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 4:24pm
okay, i created a bing boot cd from *.iso (using nero) no problem.
cd booted fine. i did NOT install to hard drive, cuz i'm nervous about already having GRUB/ubuntu installed. on subsequent screen after cancelling out of install/setup, i see: *settings *partition work *resume (which takes you back to previous screen) *backup *restore *help *reboot in Settings, i see (among other things) that usb 2.0 sppt is enabled, which i think i want cuz i want to image my c drive (laptop has c, d,f) to external usb. I would kinda like 'Full Partition List' and 'Use Volume Labels' both enabled, but they are not. Would this help? How to enable on pre-burned CD? i clicked backup and see HD0 and HD1 both available to be selected (checkmark boxes not grayed out) if i select neither HD0 nor HD1 and proceed, it instantly reports operation completed successfully. if i select (put check-mark in box) HD0 and proceed, it instantly says 'The backup operation of HD0 failed' i'm guessing HD0 = internal laptop and HD1 = external USB. ? help? |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 5:47pm
Rad,
I'll address your other questions later. It's fortunate that you haven't yet installed it to the HD as it will wipe out grub. When you eventually decide to install it to the HD, this is how you fix grub... http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=231 In Partition Work, look at the partitions in HD 0 and HD 1 to see which drive is which. Usually HD 0 is your internal HD but sometimes a USB drive becomes HD 0. This is how you create/restore images... Quote:
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Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 6:09pm
Rad,
If you don't plan to use the boot manager functions, BING doesn't need to be installed. Everything else can be done from the CD. You can continue to use Ghost 14 whether BING is installed to the HD or not. I prefer IFW/IFD (version 2) over BING for my imaging. They are faster and I like imaging from Windows with IFW. I know you prefer imaging from a boot disk so IFD would suit you. BING costs $35 but if you buy the "Bundle" for $50 you get BING, IFW, IFD, IFL and TBOSDT. I use the lot. I wouldn't hold my breath for ver 2 BING. It could be a long way in the future. No announcements have been made. Quote:
Most people find USB 2 works better if this is not ticked. I'm surprised yours is ticked. The default is not ticked. You probably chose this option when you created the ISO. It's only for those BIOS that don't work well with USB 2. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 6:54pm
yeah, i ticked usb2 when creating the iso, cuz i thot i needed that, cuz of my external usb drive. guess i didn't need.
so you like ifw better. hmmm. i have 30 gigs on a 40 gig c drive/partition, so speed is an issue. what about conflicts between ng14 and ifw installed on same system? are you implying that ifw does not let you create images using boot cd? thanks for the info. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 6:56pm
Rad,
You can make a CD that doesn't have the "install" menu or the Boot Manager functions. It's probably an easier CD to use as there are less menu choices when it boots. Quote:
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Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 7:00pm Rad wrote on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 6:54pm:
Don't know for sure but I'll bet they work OK together. Rad wrote on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 6:54pm:
IFW is strictly a Windows app. Its images are restored by IFD or IFL. IFD and IFL can create and restore images from their boot disks. CD or USB flash drives. Each works with your installed Windows and Linux OS. IFW images can be restored by IFW in BartPE or VistaPE. I'm pretty sure I've restored IFW images from the Ghost 14 recovery CD (VistaPE based). |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 7:22pm
This is how you can use a Ghost 14 CD to restore an IFW image.
Quote:
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Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Spanky on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 10:03pm Brian wrote on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 7:00pm:
I was influenced by your preference for IfW, given you have much firsthand experience with these apps. So I installed IfW and created a backup of my C drive on external USB (FAT32). The installation of IfW has you make/create an IfD boot CD. Which I did. While config'ing the image, I made the sections 2-gigs each, cuz (IIRC) DOS can't see files bigger than 2 gigs .. no? I am very antsy about the idea of restoring an IfW image with NG14 .. tho, I guess, if it doesn't work, I could always repeat with IfD. What size do you make you make your IfW images? 2GB? 4GB? If 4GB, what app do you use to restore them? So in your opinion, BING is the best boot manager out there? It took 52 mins to create an image that totals 17.6 gigs (from 30 GB source partition). Does that sound right? Think I enabled verify .. as I normally do 1st go-round. Ghost normally takes half that time. Rad in Seamonkey |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 10:50pm
@ Spanky
I was just messing around when I did the Ghost 14 thing. But I'd have no hesitation in using the Ghost 14 CD if I couldn't find my IFD CD. I restore IFW images from IFD. IFD is not bound by 4 GB files if you use NTFS partitions. I don't use FAT32 partitions and I make all my images as single files. I just created and validated a 9 GB image in 9 minutes and I've been told my computer is slow. It's a 2 year old Pentium D. But I was writing the image to a second HD. If it had been to a USB external HD it would have taken twice as long. Still, your time sounds prolonged although your Ghost time is excellent. Did you use Standard compression? Higher compression levels are too slow. Did it hang on PhyLock? IFD will restore any size images. At times it doesn't play well with some USB HDs and can be slow. If that's the case, use an IFL CD. It works well with all USB HDs and the IFL GUI is almost identical to IFD. Spanky wrote on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 10:03pm:
The only other one I've used is Boot Magic. It's like a toy compared with BING. I started using BING when I was booting OS from logical volumes (I was using Dan's guide). Much later I started using unlimited primaries. It's personal preference but I found the latter method faster to set up. Edit:... Did you create your image from Windows or IFD? |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 11:42pm
from windows.
default compression. the ifw image is slightly smaller than my ghost image. laptop source. laptop drives are slower than desktop. 1.5ghz celeron, 4 year old laptop with 1 year old hard drive. 2 gb ram. i've used boot magic too. have u heard of system commander? i think that's its name. how does ifd handle such big image files? |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 24th, 2009 at 12:02am
Dan has reviews of several boot managers on this page.
http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/notes.htm I haven't used the other ones. Your Ghost time, is that Ghost 14? |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 24th, 2009 at 12:48am
yeah.
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Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 24th, 2009 at 4:04am
Rad,
IFW took 9 minutes to image and validate my partition. Drive Snapshot, which I think is the fastest imaging app of them all, took 7 1/2 minutes. Ghost 14 took 4 minutes. I was surprised. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 24th, 2009 at 9:30am
4 mins, wow.
did it also validate? wonder why such a dramatic difference. i'm thinking maybe it's method of validation is different. most of the time, if nothing changes (no updates to ghost or no disk-config changes), i don't validate. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Dan Goodell on Mar 24th, 2009 at 9:15pm
Rad wrote: "Are you guys using this as your *primary* imaging utility?"
Depending on the task, I've been using either Ghost 2003 or BING 1.x. Due to its flexibility, I prefer Ghost 2003 over BING most of the time, and use it to backup my own systems. I'll use BING when it's absolutely crucial to get a reliable image in one try, such as before working on a non-booting drive that is about to fail at any minute. A month or two ago, I began also using IFW 2. As you may recall, I have a philosophical aversion to imaging an actively running Windows partition, so only use IFW to image other partitions or external drives. It's come in handy when imaging, say, laptop drives before doing major work on them. I can drop the drive in an external case and use IFW from my desktop, which is much faster than imaging to usb from BING or Ghost 2003, and avoids any usb hassles. And I always split images into 2GB chunks--that way, I can always copy them to FAT32 or DVD if I want. Rad wrote: "i ticked usb2 when creating the iso, cuz i thot i needed that, cuz of my external usb drive." As Brian said, you normally want to leave that unticked unless you need it. Bios support for usb is variable, and you don't want BING's usb driver to battle with a bios driver. So you'd normally leave that BING option unticked, then see in Partition Work whether BING sees the usb drive. If it does, your bios supports usb, so leave as is. If you don't see the usb drive, then go to Settings and tick it, then back into Partition Work and it should then see the drive. Rad wrote: "So in your opinion, BING is the best boot manager out there?" I've tested a number of boot managers, and IME BING is the best. IMHO, second best is the freeware XOSL. When setting up multiboot systems for clients, I use BING if they're agreeable to spending the $35. If not, I use GParted to do the partition work and XOSL for the boot manager. (I've setup a lot of dualboots in the past couple years because clients get new machines with Vista and want to dualboot XP.) I don't use linux (much*), but if you're looking to multiboot one or more linux OS's, then I'd say grub is probably second best. (XOSL can boot linux partitions, but has some limitations.) Rad wrote: "Why would somebody need more than 4 primary partitions? .. since Windows can boot from extended/logical drives." Using BING's unlimited primaries makes it extremely easy to setup a multiboot with several bootable partitions. However, unlimited primaries is a proprietary option, so as Brian said, you have to be careful when using non-Terabyte partitioning or imaging tools. Since I don't use Terabyte exclusively, I prefer to not use unlimited primaries and instead boot Windows from logical partitions. OTOH, I'm finding less need to have more than 4 primaries anyway. I don't multiboot as many partitions as I used to because I'm using virtualization for many tasks that used to require multibooting. * (I only dabble a bit in linux, so have Slackware and Ubuntu installed in virtual machines. I found that when I had it installed in a real multibooted partition I never got around to booting into it enough to get used to it.) |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 24th, 2009 at 10:40pm Dan Goodell wrote on Mar 24th, 2009 at 9:15pm:
Thanks, Dan. Are you using VMWare Player? Workstation? Or something else. http://www.vmware.com/products/player/ Dan Goodell wrote on Mar 24th, 2009 at 9:15pm:
Same here. Which virtualization file did you choose for Ubuntu? Seems like there's so many, I can't choose. You're using the new 8.10 Intrepid Ibex? Dan Goodell wrote on Mar 24th, 2009 at 9:15pm:
Heard Slackware was gnarly .. no? Very cool, tho. One of the cooler Linux distros. btw - you may find it easier to highlight the quote and click the 'Mark & Quote' link. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Dan Goodell on Mar 25th, 2009 at 5:56am
I use both Microsoft VirtualPC and Sun xVM VirtualBox.
I really like VPC for most tasks as it's user interface is far and away the easiest and most convenient to use, but it doesn't support usb devices. You can use a usb kybd or mouse because those are virtualized as common ps2 devices inside the virtual machine, and you can access usb drives if you network or share them from the host system. But in those cases, VPC isn't virtualizing them as usb devices inside the vm. If you need to connect some other kind of usb device, such as a scanner, VPC can't do it. When I want usb support, I'm now using VBox. I used to use a combination of VMware Server and VMware Player, with Server installed on an alternate multibooted partition and Player installed in my main OS. Player cannot create a vm so I needed Server, but Server refused to coexist with VPC in my main OS. Server is also very heavy on the system resources, and I didn't like the fact it insisted on always running in the background even when I wasn't using it, so I didn't really want Server on my main OS anyway. So to create a vm, I had to reboot into the alternate partition and create the vm with Server, then I could play that vm in my main OS with Player. Very cumbersome. But I lumbered along that way for a couple years waiting for something better to come along. I'd tried VBox a few times in the past, but it wasn't ready for primetime until this year. With the release of version 2, I finally decided to dump VMware and switch to VBox whenever I need usb support. (That also eliminated one of my multiboot partitions, which had been solely dedicated to VMware Server.) I was running ubuntu 6.06 in VMware, but with the switch to VBox I just installed 8.10 a couple weeks ago. (FWIW, I couldn't install 8.10 in VPC for some reason... but I didn't try real hard.) Rad wrote: "Heard Slackware was gnarly .. no?" Um, I guess I don't know. I'm using an old version, command-line only, no gui. I had originally used it years ago on an old 486 that I was using as an Apache webserver to develop webpages (cgi, server-side includes, etc). I migrated that to VPC several years ago and retired the 486. But I now run Apache in Windows, so hardly use the Slackware vm anymore. Rad wrote: "you may find it easier to highlight the quote and click the 'Mark & Quote' link." Personal preference, I guess. I normally open two windows, one to view the thread and one to reply, so it's simple to just cut-and-paste between the windows. (I like to scroll back and forth in the thread while I'm writing the reply to remind myself of what others have said.) Does it make it harder to read my replies, or would it be easier on others to use 'Mark & Quote' for the sake of consistency? |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 25th, 2009 at 6:10am Dan Goodell wrote on Mar 25th, 2009 at 5:56am:
why not vmware? aren't they de facto virtualizer king? free. Dan Goodell wrote on Mar 25th, 2009 at 5:56am:
no, your way is fine. i just wanna make sure you know about the feature. convenience. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Dan Goodell on Mar 25th, 2009 at 5:19pm
"why not vmware?"
As stated in my last post, it's too cumbersome. VMware Player can only play existing vms, it cannot be used to create or edit them. VMware Server will create/edit, but doesn't play nice with the other guys around. It's very heavy on system resources and wants to take over the host machine and run in the background all the time. Plus, half the time it didn't start up correctly (at least, on my machines)--I frequently had to go into Windows Services and restart one of the VMware services that was supposed to start on bootup. I have a comparison on my "Introduction to VirtualPC" webpage. A more up-to-date comparison with VirtualPC 2007 and VMware Player 2 would be a bit different, but mostly the same. Microsoft's VirtualPC is much too convenient and easy not to use, so VMware has to coexist with that or it doesn't stay on my main OS. Server didn't, so got relegated to an alternate multiboot partition. The only reason I kept VMware around was for when I needed a vm that could handle a usb device (other than mouse/keyboard/hard drives). VirtualBox is not perfect and not as convenient to use as VPC, but as of this year it has improved enough that it's replaced VMware when I need usb support. BTW, all four of the products I've mentioned here are free. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 26th, 2009 at 11:38am
In another thread, Dan mentioned Steve Gibson's weekly "Security Now" netcasts. His latest netcast, episode #188 (March 5), has a few pages on BING and IFW/IFD.
http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm I downloaded the pdf and the pages are 29 to 31. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 26th, 2009 at 7:33pm
Here's a little from that page:
Quote:
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Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 26th, 2009 at 7:36pm Dan Goodell wrote on Mar 25th, 2009 at 5:19pm:
Kinda weird to hear somebody say that something else is MORE cumbersome than a Microsoft product .. but I checked file sizes and VirtualPC = ~30MB, while VMWare Player = 50MB. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 27th, 2009 at 4:45am |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Brian on Mar 27th, 2009 at 4:22pm
@ Rad
Steve Gibson wrote.. Quote:
I hope this doesn't shake our confidence in Steve Gibson but Paul Terrell doesn't work at TeraByte Unlimited. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Dan Goodell on Mar 28th, 2009 at 5:31am
Rad wrote: "seems vpc does not sppt wxp home"
It works fine on a XP Home host. It's just not officially supported... though I don't know what that means because it's not like Microsoft is going to give you any support anyway. It's a free product, and if you need help you don't call Microsoft, you visit the VirtualPC newsgroup. Rad wrote: "Kinda weird to hear somebody say that something else is MORE cumbersome than a Microsoft product" Well, maybe because it's not a true "Microsoft product" at heart. VirtualPC was really developed by Connectix, from whom Microsoft bought it in 2003. It doesn't seem to have changed very much since then--maybe there's not a lot of incentive since MS turned around and released it for free? The story I've heard is that MS was frustrated with corporate IT folks who were reluctant to move their shops to XP because they had a huge investment in custom developed NT applications. So MS looked around and bought VirtualPC from Connectix so they could tell the corporate folks, "See? You can upgrade to XP and we'll give you this VirtualPC thing so you don't have to get rid of your NT stuff." If it was being used as a carrot, perhaps that played into the decision to make it free. And the conspiracy theorist in me wonders if that is why Microsoft has never added USB support--that was never part of their intended purpose for buying VirtualPC in the first place. Brian wrote: "I hope this doesn't shake our confidence in Steve Gibson but Paul Terrell doesn't work at TeraByte Unlimited." Yeah, that startled me when I listened to the netcast! Google says Paul Terrell is the founder of the 'Byte Shop' chain of computer stores back in the 80's. (I remember those!) I guess maybe Steve thought that evolved into 'TeraByte Unlimited'. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 28th, 2009 at 10:03am Dan Goodell wrote on Mar 28th, 2009 at 5:31am:
Dang. I just deleted the download from my system. Dan Goodell wrote on Mar 28th, 2009 at 5:31am:
Okay, that makes sense. I see what you're saying. Dan Goodell wrote on Mar 28th, 2009 at 5:31am:
That would be a LOT of Byte shops. =) |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Dan Goodell on Mar 28th, 2009 at 10:05pm
Rad wrote: "Dang. I just deleted the download from my system."
Dont' knock yourself out. You're looking to run ubuntu. I made an attempt to install ubuntu in VirtualPC, but it didn't work for some reason. (I'm running ubuntu in VirtualBox.) Dan wrote: "I guess maybe Steve thought that evolved into 'TeraByte Unlimited'." Rad wrote: "That would be a LOT of Byte shops. =) " LOL! Given Steve's background, I wouldn't be surprised if he had personally met Terrell at some point. Wikipedia says Terrell was in Mountain View and his 'Byte Shop' chain flourished throughout Silicon Valley in the late-70's and 80's. Steve grew up just a few miles from there (San Mateo, IIRC) and was in high school or college around that time. |
Title: Re: BootIt NG Post by Rad on Mar 29th, 2009 at 1:47pm Dan Goodell wrote on Mar 28th, 2009 at 10:05pm:
I am using VMware Player, which seems to be working fine. Looking fwd to new 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope), which is scheduled to be released in ~3 weeks. Dan Goodell wrote on Mar 28th, 2009 at 10:05pm:
Glad you liked my humor. :) |
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