Hi,

I would like to clone my vista from partition 1 to partition 2 on the same HD.  I looked for some information via google and found the website multibooters.co.uk very interesting for this purpose.  They explain that you can clone your vista IF you change your BCD store using following commands at the command prompt (administrator rights):
bcdedit /set {current} osdevice boot
bcdedit /set {current} device boot
bcdedit /set {bootmgr} device boot
bcdedit /set {memdiag} device boot


I've followed this procedure, then I made an image of partition 1 using Acronis True Image version 11 (build 8082) and copied that image to partition 2.  My problem is that when I boot partition 2, it loads vista, but it loads the vista from partition 1.  In this booted vista, I see that partition 2 is active, but partition 1 is indicated as system and boot partition.  This is not normal.

Does anyone can tell me exactly how you have to make a clone from a vista on partition 1 and copy it to partition 2?

Thanks in advance,
Fre

@ fre

It's quite easy with the correct tools. You need a boot manager. I suggest BootIt NG. On the following page there are numerous videos outlining how to use BING and there is one video that describes exactly what you desire, but with WinXP. For Vista or Windows7, use the same method.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/index.htm

Hi,

thanks for your answer, Brian.
I've tried BING as an alternative for Acronis, but I keep having the same problem.
I make an image of a generalized vista on partition 1 (with BING) and paste it (with BING) on another partition.  
The result is the same as I described on my first post:  when booting the second partition (with BING), vista loads like normal, but when I look into DiskManagement, I see that partition 2 is marked as active, but partition 1 is both boot and the system partition.  That's not normal.
When I change something on the desktop when booted on partition 2, I see the same (changed) desktop when I boot from partition 1.  This again, is not normal.

So the question remains:  can anyone give me a detailed explanation how to clone vista correctly, without crosslinks in the BCD stores from the vista installs on both partitions.

Thanks in advance
Fre

@ fre

I've done this with BING. In Boot Edit, did you have the relevant Vista in the first MBR slot for each Boot Menu entry and the other Vista as Hidden? I'm using Unlimited Primaries so I don't have the second Vista in the MBR at all. There is no way either can interact.


fre wrote on May 1^st, 2009 at 2:52pm:

make an image of a generalized vista on partition 1 (with BING) and paste it (with BING) on another partition.

That is not what I did. I "copied" Vista in BING and "pasted" into unallocated space. Actually, this could make a big difference as your first Vista "knew" about the partition and this could give rise to boot issues.

I'm just starting a Windows7 clone at present.

Edit.... I can't as I don't have enough free space for the clone. Maybe later after I've deleted a few OS. I have 250 OS on that HD.

That was quick. I'm looking at my second Windows7 desktop now.

Quote:

One BING to rule them all, One BING to find them, One BING to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

It is a giant.

Hi,

thanks again for your answer.
This time  I used the copy function in BING and pasted an exiting partiton to unallocated space, (without making an image first).  Again, I have the same problem as described above:   when I boot partition 2 (=cloned vista), it loads vista, but it loads the vista from partition 1(=the original vista).  In this booted vista, I see that partition 2 is active, but partition 1 is indicated as system and boot partition.  This is not normal.

Starting from scratch (empty HD), this is what I've done:
1) create a partition via the XP installation disk  (this because I've learned that vista creates non-standard partitions)
2) reboot with vista CD: install vista on this partition
3) generalize vista:
bcdedit /set {current} osdevice boot
bcdedit /set {current} device boot
bcdedit /set {bootmgr} device boot
bcdedit /set {memdiag} device boot
4) boot with BootIt NG CD: I do not install the bootmanager, but use the functionality of copying this partition and pasting it to unallocated space
5) now I make this second (new cloned) partition active and boot from it.

The result:  partition 2 stays active, but the vista from partition 1 is loaded.  (see screenshot in attachment)
So my questions remains: can anyone please give me a step-by-step guide how to clone vista succesfully?

Kind regards,
Frederik

---

fre,

I've given you two different ways to do it and you haven't followed either method. Your screenshot demonstrates that. If you do it properly, second Vista will either..
1. Not have a drive letter (limited primaries)
2. Not be seen in Disk Management at all (unlimited primaries)

Firstly, you don't need any BCD edits prior to the clone. Second, you are not setting up the Boot Menu Item correctly.

BING must be installed. Look at the video called "Creating and Booting a second copy of Windows XP & other information". Perhaps a little confusing as the second WinXP is not hidden in the video. This was done to demonstrate WinXP boot.ini problems. It is the same technique with Vista. Just follow the steps in the video.

If you are doing this in a Virtual Machine, BING must be installed in the Virtual Machine too.

@Brian, you jump into conclusions to fast...

I did not allocate a drive letter to the second vista (=clone).  It automatically assigned a drive letter after booting.  
Firstly, I chosen to hide the original partition (so no influence to the other partition is possible).  But then, BSOD were appearing at booting the clone.  
After this, I chose to unhide the original partition, resulting the drive letter allocation (screenshot at previous post).
Whether BING is installed as bootmanger or not, it doesn't change  anything to this behaviour.

I do not want to choose the unlimited primaries option in Bing, because I want to have the option to change bootmanager at each time.  (= I do not want to depend on proprietary software)

I keep on trying other options.  Meanwhile, i appreciate any support, with our without using BootIt... (there seems to be alternatives, but I've not tested them)

Kind regards,


Fre

@ fre


fre wrote on May 3^rd, 2009 at 4:23pm:

you jump into conclusions to fast...

That's me I'm afraid.

If you can't hide the second Vista with the BING Boot menu, probably because the partition has already been "seen", you should open Disk Management and remove the drive letter of the second Vista. Then things should work. Let me know if that resolves the problem.

fre wrote on May 3^rd, 2009 at 4:23pm:

I do not want to choose the unlimited primaries option in Bing, because I want to have the option to change bootmanager at each time.(= I do not want to depend on proprietary software)

As long as you don't have more than 4 primary partitions you can turn Unlimited Primaries on and off whenever you like. It doesn't prevent you from changing boot managers whenever you like.

Come to think of it, removing that drive letter probably won't work because your boot files are in the E: drive.

I just did it again using Vista and Primaries Limited. No problems. The hidden partition shows as Healthy (Primary Partition).

I'm happy to slowly walk you through this.

Hi Brian,

thanks for your offer for a walkthrough.
My starting point is an empty HD of 45 GB: 
- I make a partition via the XP-install disk of 15 GB for the vista install
- the rest (30GB) is unallocated space. 
- I boot with the vista DVD and install vista on this created partition.
- I will not change the BCD store, as you advice me in your previous post.

This far,  is there anything I do wrong or do you have a better startingpoint?
I'm doing this install in a virtual environment with VmWare Workstation 6.
My next steps would be:
- boot from bootIt and install it on a Fat32 drive
- copy/paste partition 1 to unallocated space
- make a bootmenu with, where I look carefully to hide partition 2 when I choose booting partition 1 and vice versa.
But I'll wait first untill we find an agreement about the starting point.

Kind regards

Fre

@ fre

and

@ Brian

I'm not a *Vista* guy--so can't say I fully understand how it differs from WinXP, but...


Quote:

Firstly, I chosen to hide the original partition (so no influence to the other partition is possible).  But then, BSOD were appearing at booting the clone.

Does Vista use a *boot.ini* still?  Do you have to edit it to point to *partition 2* instead of *partition 1* once you have created the second instance of Vista on a different primary partition?

Or, do you have to edit the boot information using *bcdedit* to point to the 2nd partition?

Brian, how do you handle that when you make your copies?

Hi NightOwl,

Vista does no longer uses the boot.ini file to boot, like xp does.  Instead, there is the BCD store.
I've learned on the multibooters.co.uk website you have to modify the BCD file (via bcdedit /set ...)  to generalize the Vista-install before cloning. (see my posts above)
But on this forum, I read that this modification is no longer needed when using BootIt NG when cloning a vista install. 
I hope Brian - or somebody else - can give me more instructions for successful cloning a vista install...

Kind regards,
Fre

NightOwl,

TeraByte has an an interesting way to "neutralize" the boot.ini issue. Re-order the partition table. Say the first WinXP is partition(1) in boot.ini. After you clone that partition to unallocated space, you setup a boot item for that partition so it is in the first slot of the partition table. And any subsequent WinXP copies. All will have a partition(1) boot.ini. The partition table changes for each OS.

With all OS, TeraByte recommend having the active partition in the first slot of the partition table. Win98, WinXP, Vista, Win7, DOS, Linux. It just works.

fre,

This is how I did it, following TeraByte's videos. I don't know if it makes a difference from what you have done so far. Also, I haven't done this exercise in a Virtual Machine although I do have a Virtual Machine with BING installed and multiple OS in the BING menu. Vista/Win7 runs at about one fifth the speed in my Virtual Machine so I don't use it from there.

OK, starting from a HD with WinXP and a data partition as well as plenty of unallocated space.

Install BING using defaults and use the installed BING for all partitioning and boot procedures. I'm using Limited Primaries here
delete WinXP as we will eventually have too many partitions
create a 16000 MB partition, NTFS, name it Vista1
setup a boot item with Vista1 in the first MBR slot, Data in the second slot
attempt to boot Vista1 from the Boot Menu. This makes Vista1 the active partition in the MBR. It won't boot of course as there is no OS and you get a message to insert the installation CD/DVD and press ctr-alt-del to restart
install Vista
make sure it boots correctly
Edit:... Reactivate BING. See Reply #20
in BING, copy Vista1 to unallocated space. Rename the copied Vista to Vista2
go to Boot Edit and click Add
setup a boot item for Vista2. Edit so the MBR details look like this

        Vista2
Hide  Vista1
        Data
        BING

In the Boot Menu, click Edit for Vista1. Edit so the MBR details look like this

        Vista1
Hide  Vista2
        Data
        BING

Now try booting Vista2 for the first time.

Good luck. I hope I haven't omitted any steps.

NightOwl,

I'm impressed by Win7. It runs as fast as WinXP on my main computer. Vista was a slug and I didn't spend much time with it.

My test computer is a Pentium 4  1.3 GHz, 384 MB RAM and a 32 MB Video card. Microsoft doesn't recommend Win7 on a computer with these specs. Win7 installs on that machine (even in a 8 GB partition) and runs reasonably well even though it gets a Performance Score of 1 out of 8. It's not much slower than WinXP on that machine. If you have any spare time, (maybe you don't) try it. Microsoft is trying hard to rebuild its OS reputation by allowing free downloads.

fre,

I did omit one step. Vista installs its own MBR and inactivates BING. After you have confirmed Vista1 is working OK, boot from the BING CD and Reactivate BING. This installs BING's MBR.

I just did the exercise in a Virtual machine using WinXP. No problems.

I followed the procedure as described in post #18.
I keep on having the same problem: when booting vista2, there is the well know vista progress bar for a couple of seconds, then a nice BSOD appears, followed by a reboot.

I will now try the same procedure, but for an XP install, and see what that gives.

I've done the same exercise, but this time with an XP install.  And I've reached a successfull clone!  I followed the instructions in post #18, except for the fact I installed XP instead of Vista.  I have two separate XP installations now, and I only did one install and copied/cloned this install to unallocated space with BING, and it works fine.

Brian, - or anybody else - I would appreciate it if you could do a vista install in a virtual environment and try to clone that install with Bing and share with us the result (did it work or not?) of this experiment...

Kind regards,
Fre

Fre,

I'm pleased WinXP worked. Sounds like there is something weird with Vista. I use Microsoft Virtual PC. Would you like me to try the Vista exercise with that software? I know you are using VMWare.

Fre,

I just did the Vista exercise in Microsoft Virtual PC. No problems. Disk Management looks fine.

You owe me a beer.

@ Brian
whenever I meet you, I'll buy you a couple of beers.

Anyway,  I've tried the same procedure as in post #18 but this time with Microsoft Virtual PC.  Unfortunatly, I keep on having the same problem as decribed in my first posts.
There must be something with my vista-install that differs from other vista-installs (which do not have problems being cloned)
I'll keep on experimenting, and whenever I found the reason (and hopefully a solution) for my problems, I post them here.
Anyway Brian, thank you for your time/support/patience.

Fre,

It's been fun doing these tests. Please let us know when you have further information. It's really annoying when a procedure works on one computer and not another.

Fre,

I suggest asking your question in the TeraByte BootIt newsgroup.

I continued testing in vmware, and I have found a way to boot the cloned vista install...

What I've done:
- install vista on partition 1
- using bootIt (without installing the bootmanager) I copy partition 1 (= MBR entry 0) to unallocated space.  This results in a second MBR entry: MBR entry 1.
- using bootIt in partition work, I click 'View MBR' and there, I select 'MBR entry 1' and press 'Move Up' and set it to active.   
When I reboot the machine, I'm really booting the cloned vista.  So I do not have the problems or strange behaviour as I described in my first posts.

When I install the bootmanger (bootIt), it does not do the job for me (which is booting correctly the cloned partition), but when I manually change the options (change the order in MBR + set active as described above) I can successfully boot the clone (= MBR entry 1)

So my reflections .... (this only applies on what I've experienced on my computer with my vista, so I do not want to generalize this to other vista installs or computers):
- the BCD store of the active partition will always be loaded at booting, but it does not always load the vista install of that active partion.  Any bootmanagers I tried (XOSL and BootIt) will always load the vista install on the first MBR entry it sees.
- when I change the MBR entry order (using BootIt) and put the vista install (that I want to load) on top of the list in the MBR + set to active, it does boot that (cloned) vista-install as I want/expect.

I'm now looking for a bootmanager that does this job for me.


PS: I did not change anything to the BCD store file (like bcdedit /set {etcetera} ...)

fre,

That's interesting. Using BING manually to boot an OS by setting the MBR order and the active partition.

What I don't understand is why BING doesn't do this in your computer from the Boot Menu. If BING is installed you can do a sham boot by selecting an OS from the Boot Menu and holding down Shift while clicking Boot. The OS will not boot but the MBR is changed to reflect the MBR Details in Edit Menu Item. So the MBR you have been viewing in Partition Work should now show the Active OS in the first MBR slot. The same order as you have been creating manually.