Radified Community Forums
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
Rad Community Technical Discussion Boards (Computer Hardware + PC Software) >> PC Hardware + Software (except Cloning programs) >> Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1246842185

Message started by Richard K on Jul 5th, 2009 at 8:03pm

Title: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 5th, 2009 at 8:03pm
I'm the guy with the strange Partition Magic problem- it will not see my first hard disk with the OS on its C drive.

MS disk management says all partitions are healthy.

I have WinXP SP3.

I made a ghost image of the entire disk with image all as an option.

Than I tried to use the Recovery Console:

It  will not start from the XP installation disk- it says TXTSETUP.sif is missing or corrupt.

I downloaded the MS recovery console.  When I select the recovery console choice on bootup I get the BSOD.  It tells me to run chkdsk /f and that didn't help.

Microsoft's instructions for fixing the txtsetup.sif problem left my head spinning.  Can I download a copy of that file somewhere and overwrite the one in Windows?

Is this one of these battles I am not going to win?  :'(

Richard



Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by MrMagoo on Jul 6th, 2009 at 4:24pm
I don't understand.  Are you trying to restore your Ghost image?  If so, you should use the Ghost recovery console.  You should also post your message on the Ghost boards.  Those guys know more than I do and they will look there first.

The Windows Recovery Console (which I think is what you are talking about...?) should be run from an XP setup disk.  It boots from the CD and is independent of your OS, so if it refuses to start that means there are serious issues with your hardware (hard drive maybe?)

Let us know a little more clearly what you are trying to do and hopefully we can provide better suggestions.

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 6th, 2009 at 5:00pm
MrMagoo,

I think I need to repair the Master Boot Record. I got that from replies to my original post.

The computer works perfectly, as far as I can tell.  My installed Partition Magic will not recognize the first of two hard disks, the one with the OS- it is sort of greyed out.  It sees the second one fine.

Microsoft Disk Management says all partitions on both hard disks are healthy.

I can't boot from the Partition Magic CD or the rescue floppy disk.  It takes me to a DOS screen with (I think) three utilities.  I also get an error message that it can't find MSCD001, a  driver or file for the optical drive.

PM used to work fine. It was installed in Sept 2002.

Going through all this again I remember telling Diskeeper just after I bought it to do a boot time defragmentation on the C drive where the OS is located. That was April 2008. I don't know if that contributes to the problem but WinXP SP3 has never failed to start properly. 

I can't remember if I ran PM since Diskeeper was installed.

I made a Ghost image of the entire first hard disk so I would hopefully have a backup if repairing the MBR created problems.

When I tried to start the Recovery Console I started having the latest problems:

It  will not start from the XP installation disk- it says TXTSETUP.sif is missing or corrupt.

I downloaded the MS recovery console.  When I select the recovery console choice on bootup I get the BSOD.  It tells me to run chkdsk /f and that didn't help.

Probably the best thing for me to do is to ignor the PM problem, although PM has been helpful in the past.

All this complaining is because at least I wish I knew what happened to PM.  Sorry for the long post.

Richard



Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 6th, 2009 at 5:05pm
Well @#$#$,
I misstated.  The installed Partition Magic marks the first hard disk as Bad.
Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by MrMagoo on Jul 6th, 2009 at 6:28pm

Richard K wrote on Jul 6th, 2009 at 5:00pm:
Probably the best thing for me to do is to ignor the PM problem, although PM has been helpful in the past.

All this complaining is because at least I wish I knew what happened to PM.  Sorry for the long post.

Sorry to ask the obvious, but have you tried reinstalling PM?

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 7th, 2009 at 10:42am
Actually I did.  Had the same problem- hard disk one is bad.  Don't know why I failed to mention that.  Aren't computers wonderful?
Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 8th, 2009 at 12:55pm
@ Richard K


Quote:
Probably the best thing for me to do is to ignor the PM problem

Well....maybe not!  You now have a *bigger* problem that you have discovered--you can not use the WinXP installation disc to boot to the Recovery Console--and that issue may relate back to your PM issues!

For those who may not be *connecting the dots*, here are the other two threads that relate back to this thread:

Anybody Familiar with Partition Magic?

Repairing the MBR

Unfortunately, you did not respond to several of the questions and suggestions made in those other threads--letting the issue *drop*!

This is probably a problem that can be fixed--and probably should be--but it will take more than one or two questions and answers--are you interested and willing to follow thru?

I ran across this in the PartitionMagic User Guide:


Quote:
#105 Partition starts on wrong boundary

The hard-disk partition table contains erroneous values. PartitionMagic expects
partitions to begin and end on the correct cylinder boundaries. If they do not, the
disk may be partially corrupted. In this circumstance, if PartitionMagic were to
make any modifications it might cause the loss of data. Therefore, PartitionMagic
refuses to recognize any of the hard disk’s partitions. To resolve this problem, see
the instructions in “Resolving Partition Table Errors” on page 126.

#106 Partition doesn’t start with sector one
See error #105.


So, PartitionMagic may be erring out because of concerns that it might cause loss of data if it manipulates the disk incorrectly.  And, the WinXP installation disc also has the function of formatting and partitioning one's HDDs--so it to may be seeing that potential problem and refusing to boot also. 


Quote:
MS disk management says all partitions are healthy.

As I mentioned in one of the other threads mentioned above--WinXP itself is more *forgiving* and willing to *ignore* potential issues regarding partition errors--whereas DOS utility programs (and now apparently WinXP installation CDs) designed to work with partitions are much less forgiving!

The WinXP installation boot disc may be giving an erroneous error message.  It's common for programs to *see* an error state, but they then *analyze* the problem incorrectly, and report the closest error match--but it may have nothing to do with the actual problem!


Quote:
It  will not start from the XP installation disk- it says TXTSETUP.sif is missing or corrupt.

That file is a *setup information file*--i.e. *.sif* file.  It's located here on the installation CD:  X:\I386\TXTSETUP.SIF.  Where *X:* is your CD drive letter.  You can open that file with Notepad--I suspect you can do that in Windows, and you will find that the file is not corrupt or missing!

If you want to pursue this, let me know--there's about a dozen more questions to ask--but, I find folks get confused and fail to answer some of the questions if I ask them all at once!

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 8th, 2009 at 5:04pm
Yes I would like to have some help.  I suspect you don't want any of my multitude of excuses for dropping the ball.

PartitionInfo gave me an interesting report.  I have tried to attach a Word document that contains the report.  The white box that I think should contain the Word file remains empty after I select the file in the file upload window so I don't know if it is there or not.

Partition C contains the OS, antivirus and things like that.
Partition E is where I keep programs and data.
Partition F contains my wife's pictures.  Photoshop opens these OK.
Partition G contains music.

The only possibility I can think of for damaging the MBR is having Diskeeper do a boot time defrag on the the first hard disk.  I haven't done anything else I know of- no progams, applications, ect.- that would affect the MBR.

Should I start with Dan Goodell's MBR saver?

Thanks,
Richard
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=PowerQuest_PartitionInfo_8.doc (57 KB | 455 )

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 9th, 2009 at 12:18am
@ Richard K


Quote:
PartitionInfo gave me an interesting report.

That was going to be one of the next programs I was going to recommend running to see what the results were!

Here's the main results:


Quote:
Disk Geometry Information for Disk 1:  (for C:)

Error #106: Partition didn't begin on head boundary.

BeginSector expected to be 1, not 8.

***********************************************
(and for the extended partitions E:, F:, and G:)

Error #106: Partition didn't begin on head boundary.

BeginSector expected to be 1, not 2.




Quote:
Partition Information for Disk 1:

E:             NTFS 

Error #114: Logical starting at 48339655 is not one head away from EPBR


F:             NTFS       

Error #114: Logical starting at 85080304 is not one head away from EPBR

G:             NTFS

Error #114: Logical starting at 203864914 is not one head away from EPBR

So, it looks like the main problem is that the data on the partitions do not begin where they normally should!


Quote:
The only possibility I can think of for damaging the MBR is having Diskeeper do a boot time defrag on the the first hard disk.

You may be correct!  But, if it's true, then Diskeeper is *seriously* misbehaving relative to what the norm that is expected!  It could have something to do with some proprietary effort to improve disk performance.  (You might want to post a question to their support forum asking if their program is the likely source for these partition changes, the *errors* reported by PartitionMagic (PM), and the loss of being able to boot to your PM recovery floppy disks or installation CD disc--or to your WinXP Recovery Console!  If they were to admit to that being the case (which I doubt they would!), I'd let them know you are not very pleased with their very poor behavior!)

But, both Ghost and PM manipulate the *Partition Table* in the Master Boot Record (MBR)--so, possibly they are also potential sources of the issue.

Have you done any restores of Ghost images to your first HDD with your OS on it?

Have you used PartitionMagic to create or resize any of your partitions on that 1st HDD?


Quote:
Should I start with Dan Goodell's MBR saver?

Not yet.

Are you comfortable with removing the cover of your system's case? 

Do you know what the HDDs look like and what connector is the power cord and which is the communication connector to the HDDs?

Do you have the older Parallel IDE ATA HDDs (PATA), or the newer Serial ATA HDDs (SATA)?

Do you know which HDD is the one with the problems on it and your OS--and which one is your *other* HDD?

If not, then we will have to work on that first!  But, if your comfortable with the above questions, then proceed to the next step below.

The first thing to do is to disconnect the communication connector from the back of the primary HDD that is giving those errors in PM--i.e. the one with your OS on it.  (It's optional whether to disconnect the power cord or not to that HDD as well.)

Now, attempt to boot to the PM floppy recovery floppy disks, and to the PM CD installation disc--and also see if you can boot to the WinXP installation CD to the Recovery Console (may need your main Admin password to do this--do you know it?!)--do not attempt any changes to any of the HDDs--just determine if you can boot successfully to those various programs from the boot disks or discs.

Once you determine that you can or can not boot successfully using the various boot media--exit the  program, shut down your system, and reconnect the communication connector to that primary HDD and boot back to Windows.

Results?


Title: OH NOOOOO Progress Report: Only PM boot floppy will start
Post by Richard K on Jul 12th, 2009 at 11:02am
NightOwl,
I disabled the first hard disk and got the following results.

WinXP install disk would not start.
INF File TXTSETUP.SIF missing  Status 32768

PM recovery CD would not start.
Device Driver not found MSCD001
You booted from a PowerQuest bootable CD
A:\  Drive is bootable portion of CD
Your can access some DOS and PowerQuest utilities from A:\ drive.
The main PowerQuest utilities are located in the Y:\ drive
1 Partition Magic
2 Boot Magic
3 DOS
Volume in A:\ drive is Pmagic-8
1:  invalid drive specified
     invalid directory specified
     Command or file name not recognized
This recovery CD used to start OK

PM recovery floppy did start

I hope this is useful information.

Thanks for your interest and help.
Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 12th, 2009 at 2:05pm
The last 1 Posts were moved here from PC Hardware + Software (except Cloning programs) by NightOwl.

@ Richard K

We already have three threads (topics) that are possibly inter-related--let's keep further posts all together here so we don't have to jump around too much!


Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 12th, 2009 at 3:16pm
@ Richard K

Hmmm...well, your last response was not what I had hoped for!

I was hoping that if the HDD with the PartitionMagic (PM) errors was eliminated, then all the boot issues would be resolved--but, obviously they were not.  So, the actual problem or problems may be several--rather than just one--so let's try to sort things out!


Quote:
I disabled the first hard disk

I want to make sure we're talking *apples/apples* and *oranges/oranges*--when you say *disabled*--do you mean *disconnected the communication cable* from it like I recommended in my post #8 above?


Quote:
WinXP install disk would not start

Again--to be accurate--the WinXP installation CD probably did *start*, but after loading a certain portion of the boot information--it stopped where it attempted to access that file--and gave that error message--is that correct?


Quote:
PM recovery CD would not start

It looks like the PM CD did *start*--but, gave you the following error(s) during boot:


Quote:
Device Driver not found MSCD001
You booted from a PowerQuest bootable CD
A:\  Drive is bootable portion of CD
Your can access some DOS and PowerQuest utilities from A:\ drive.
The main PowerQuest utilities are located in the Y:\ drive
1 Partition Magic
2 Boot Magic
3 DOS
Volume in A:\ drive is Pmagic-8
1:  invalid drive specified
     invalid directory specified
     Command or file name not recognized
This recovery CD used to start OK

Are the above *error messages* what were reported during the boot process?  It looks like several different error messages that should have occurred at different times during the boot process.  Where these reported all at once--or were they reported at different points during the boot sequence?


Quote:
PM recovery floppy did start

So, this means that the boot floppy was able to load DOS PartitionMagic, and no errors were reported during boot--and PM started without any errors?  And, were you able to see the HDD that was still hooked up and its partition layout?


Quote:
INF File TXTSETUP.SIF missing  Status 32768

I did a Google search on this error and did not find anything specific.  But the possible problems ranged from:

a.  Bad RAM
b.  Bad Optical Drive
c.  Scratched optical boot disc
d.  Bad HDD
e.  Booting from older (pre SP2 or SP3) WinXP CD after updating to newer SP2 or SP3 version of WinXP

So, we need to consider each of the above as possible problems--but, certain ones are less likely than others.

I looked back at your PartInfo Doc and it looks like you have two physical HDDs on your system.  Disconnect the communication cable from both HDDs, and again attempt to boot from the WinXP installation CD and the PM Installation CD.  Results?





Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 13th, 2009 at 10:01pm
NightOwl,
I have a long reply to your questions as I repeated the testing.  I will attach a Word doc containing my reply.

I can past the whole text into a forum reply if anyone wants.
Richard
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=MBR_Troubleshooting.doc (37 KB | 494 )

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 14th, 2009 at 8:08am
Looking back at my notes from last night I didn't include the result of  starting the PM  CD with both HDDs disconnected.

> I booted the computer with the PM CD and both hard disks disconnected.  This is the series of error messages.

•      Port 00 no device detected; port 01 CDROM, Plextor DVDR
•      Drive 00 not found.
        port 01 CDROM, Plextor DVDR
•      Press F1 to continue.
>Press F1
•      Device Driver not found MSCD001
•      No valid CDROM device driver selected.
•      Drive 0 not found
•      You booted from a PowerQuest bootable CD
•      A:\  Drive is bootable portion of CD
•      Your can access some DOS and PowerQuest utilities from A:\ drive.
The main PowerQuest utilities are located in the Y:\ drive
1 Partition Magic
2 Boot Magic
3 DOS
> I pressed 1 and got back A:\>
>I entered A::\> dir
The A directory contained
HIGHMEM.EXE
PTEDIT.EXE
MSCDEV.EXE
SMARTDRV.EXE
ATAPI_CD.SYS
TA1SATP.SYS
AUTOEXEC.BAT
CONFIG.SYS
1  PM.BAT
2  BM.BAT
3  GETCH.EXE
System Files Exist
>I entered PM.BAT and got
Invalid drive specified
Invalid directory specified
Command or file name not recognized
A:\>

I hope I haven't gotten myself too confused with all the thingsI did last night.
Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 14th, 2009 at 11:39am
@ Richard K


Quote:
I hope I haven't gotten myself too confused with all the thingsI did last night.

Well, ... it is *confusing*--but, gradually we are getting more information to work with!

I did some boot testing--I have PartitionMagic (PM) 8.01--so, I booted that installation disc to see what happens to better understand the results you posted.  Well, my PM disc had a boot failure too!  I've never used that boot disc on this system--so was unaware that it wouldn't work properly!

My failure was for a completely different reason, but ends up giving essentially the same final result.  The PM installation disc uses *Caldera DR-DOS* for its OS.  And the command line that loads *mscdex.exe* that is responsible for assigning DOS drive letters to one's optical drives has a *switch* that is forcing the first optical drive seen in DOS to be given the drive letter *Y*.  Here's the command line:


Quote:
LoadHigh A:\mscdex.exe /d:mscd001 /v /l:y

But, I have 3 optical drives on this system!  So, for DOS to assign drive letters it attempts to assign *Y* to the first seen drive, *Z* to the next one--and that's the last possible drive in DOS--so it fails when trying to assign the final CD drive a drive letter.  When that happens, the *mscdex.exe* driver errors out saying *Insufficient Drive Letters Available* and assigns no drive letters to any drive!

Well, the PM boot files assumes that the optical drive is *Y*--so if you select that option #1 *1 Partition Magic*, it does not find that drive, and you get these errors:


Quote:
Invalid drive specified
Invalid directory specified
Command or file name not recognized
Command or file name not recognized

If the *Y* drive does not exist, you can't change to that drive, and if the drive does note exist, you can't find a directory on that non-existent drive, and if the directory doesn't exist, you can not find a file name in that non-existent directory to execute a load command for that file!

In your post above:


Quote:
> I booted the computer with the PM CD and both hard disks disconnected.  This is the series of error messages.

•      Port 00 no device detected; port 01 CDROM, Plextor DVDR
•      Drive 00 not found.
        port 01 CDROM, Plextor DVDR
•      Press F1 to continue.
>Press F1
•      Device Driver not found MSCD001
•      No valid CDROM device driver selected.
•      Drive 0 not found
•      You booted from a PowerQuest bootable CD
•      A:\  Drive is bootable portion of CD
•      Your can access some DOS and PowerQuest utilities from A:\ drive.
The main PowerQuest utilities are located in the Y:\ drive
1 Partition Magic
2 Boot Magic
3 DOS

The first series of errors appear to be coming from your BIOS because you have no HDDs hooked up.  The next two lines appear to be the problem with loading you optical drive:


Quote:
•      Device Driver not found MSCD001
•      No valid CDROM device driver selected.


For some reason, your optical drive is not being recognized!  But, you have said you have previously been able to boot successfully from your PM installation disc!  Has anything changed as far as your optical drive is concerned since the last time you were successful in booting your PM disc?  Did you replace the drive with a new one?  Did you move it from a previous location as far as what communication cable was connected to it?  Anything you can think of?

You mentioned that you have made my boot disk and it works fine:

Anybody Familiar with Partition Magic?--Reply #6

So, if you boot from that boot disc, you are able to put an optical disc with data on it in the optical drive and access the data by changing to the *X:* drive in DOS?  And you do not see any loading errors during boot?

I'd like to have you try this--leave both HDDs hooked up--when you boot from the PM installation disc--when it first begins to read the CD and says *Starting Caldera DR-DOS*--press the F8 key.  This will bring up the boot files in a trouble shooting mode that requires each command line to be loaded one at a time and you have to press *Y* (yes) to load the next line.  The boot file will load that line and stop until you tell it to load the next line--this gives you a chance to read the results and any error messages.

The PM uses a *Sony* optical driver plus the *mscdex.exe* driver for the optical drives--record and post any error messages.

Do the same for my boot disc--it should say *Loading Windows 98....*--the response to pressing F8 is a little different (this is using MS-DOS) and you have to select the option listed at the bottom for *step-by-step confirmation*--this time it will ask if you want to create a *log file* (or something to that effect)--say *N* to that one, and *Y* to all the others--any error messages?

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 15th, 2009 at 9:10pm
NightOwl,

These are tonight's results:

Starting the PM boot CD normally I get what I have reported earlier.
Selecting 3  DOS I get the command prompt A:\
I never was that good at DOS but typing A:\ cd X:   left me at A:\   so did A:\chdir X:
Am I missing the right command?





Starting the PM boot CD in step mode:

Going down to Device A:\ highmem.sys   yes
     Himem.sys 2.30
Device HIGH = A:\ATAPI_CD.SYS  / D:MSCDOO1 /V   yes
     Sony ATAPI CDROM DEVICE DRIVE ver 2.18B
     No drives are attached.  The device driver is not installed
LASTDRIVE =Z   yes
     Executing AUTOEXEC.BAT
     Caldera DDR-DOS 7.03
Echo off   yes      
Prompt $p$g   yes
PATH = A  yes
Loadhigh A:\MSCDEX.EXE  /D:MSCDOO1 /V /L:Y  yes
No valid CDROM device drivers are selected
Load high A:\SMARTDRIVE.EXE   yes
Echo ********************************  yes
Echo  yes
Echo You booted from a PowerQuest bootable CD   yes
     You booted from a PowerQuest CD
Echo   yes
Echo  The A drive is the bootable portion of the CD  You can access some DOS  yes
The A drive is the bootable portion of the CD  You can access some DOS
Echo  and PowerQuest troubleshooting utilizes  from the A: drive  yes
Echo  The main PowerQuest utilities and programs are located in the Y:drive  yes

From here on the responses are those I saw previously on bootup attempts.



Starting the NightOwl Ghost boot CD

It loads too fast to press F8 when MS Dos starts.
Ghost starts normally and works.

Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 16th, 2009 at 12:44am
@ Richard K


Quote:
Starting the NightOwl Ghost boot CD

It loads too fast to press F8 when MS Dos starts.

Try to start pressing F8 just before you see the *Starting Windows 98.....* message--it's okay to press it sooner--I often times press it repeatedly just to make sure the system responds.


Quote:
For some reason, your optical drive is not being recognized!  But, you have said you have previously been able to boot successfully from your PM installation disc!  Has anything changed as far as your optical drive is concerned since the last time you were successful in booting your PM disc?  Did you replace the drive with a new one?  Did you move it from a previous location as far as what communication cable was connected to it?  Anything you can think of?

Any comments?


Quote:
Device HIGH = A:\ATAPI_CD.SYS  / D:MSCDOO1 /V   yes
     Sony ATAPI CDROM DEVICE DRIVE ver 2.18B
     No drives are attached.  The device driver is not installed

Well...this indicates that the DOS optical driver does not detect the presence of the optical drive.  Obviously you are booting from the optical drive--but it is a different function--one is being controlled by the BIOS--the bootability--and the other is accessing the drive in DOS.


Quote:
I never was that good at DOS but typing A:\ cd X:   left me at A:\   so did A:\chdir X:
Am I missing the right command?

Sort of!  What you type is x:, and then press *Enter* to change to a different drive. But, you simply do not have an X: drive.  Actually, the PM boot disc forces your optical drive to be *Y:*, and not X:.  But, the error indicated above says there is no optical drive in DOS--so no drive letter is assigned--so neither X: or Y: will have any effect!.


Quote:
Starting the NightOwl Ghost boot CD

It loads too fast to press F8 when MS Dos starts.
Ghost starts normally and works.

My boot CD only depends on the bootability access part of the equation (i.e. the BIOS)--but, it also loads a DOS optical drive driver--we need to see if that is being successful!  So, try using F8 sooner so you can see the individual steps for the boot files.

Results?

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 16th, 2009 at 9:23pm
I have done nothing I am aware of that could have caused changes in the hard disk.

I got your boot disk to run step-by-step.

It got to
This device is provided by Oak Technology......

Device Name   :  NightOwl
No drivers found, aborting installation
Last derive = Z
Than the remaining steps were done down to

A:\> ghost.exe
ghost.exe  Y/N    yes

and than Ghost started

I closed Ghost and got to

A:\>
Neither X: or Y: produced results.

Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 17th, 2009 at 12:04am
@ Richard K


Quote:
I have done nothing I am aware of that could have caused changes in the hard disk.

Read carefully--I asked about your optical drive!


Quote:
Has anything changed as far as your optical drive is concerned since the last time you were successful in booting your PM disc?  Did you replace the drive with a new one?  Did you move it from a previous location as far as what communication cable was connected to it?  Anything you can think of?



Quote:
Device Name   :  NightOwl
No drivers found, aborting installation

Looks like there is something amiss with your optical drive.  I think you said you have no problem using the drive when booted to Windows.  And the BIOS sees it long enough to read and boot from the hidden boot sector on your PM installation disc, my Ghost boot disc, and the Windows installation disc--but *it is not there* when it's time to read from the data portion of the various discs.

Lets try a couple more things:

1.  Loosen the communication cable to the optical drive--you don't have to completely disconnect it--just loosen--and then re-set it.  Do the same where the communication cable for the optical drive is connected to the motherboard.

Now try booting the PM disc or my boot disc--use the F8 key again and see if your drive now shows up when the DOS optical drive driver loads--or is it still *not found*?

2.  When you do your test booting using a bootable optical disc--are you shutting down the system, or are you starting from Windows and then choosing to *Restart* without the power going off?  If that's what you are currently doing--try this after #1 above if it does not work:

Shut the system down--i.e. power off.  Then, after 10-15 second--power on and boot from one of the optical boot discs--use F8 again and see if your optical drive is now seen--is it?

**********************************************************

Do you have just the one optical drive?

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 17th, 2009 at 8:12am
Sorry about the optical/hard drive screw up.  Its my ADD again.  Sometimes I just don't see what I see.  You would be amazed at some of the problems it has caused over the years.

The Plextor CDROM hasn't been touched since I installed it years ago to replace the original.  There was never a problem I was aware with using that Plextor although I had never tried to boot from the Partition Magic CD with either of these devices.

Shutting the computer down and reseating the communication cable did not resolve the problem.
Neither did downloading the current driver from Plextor.
Neither did replacing the Plextor with the original Samsung CDROM.  That is the only other optical drive I have.

I wonder if this boot disk issue is a result of the hard drive configuration problem I first asked about?  If so is that fixable?  I downloaded the Recovery Console from MS and it will not start- I got the BSOD when I chose that option during reboot.

Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 17th, 2009 at 9:08am
@ Richard K


Quote:
I wonder if this boot disk issue is a result of the hard drive configuration problem I first asked about?

Not likely--we did the test where that HDD was removed--and the same problem still existed, but....


Quote:
is that fixable?

Yes--and it should be fairly easy--but let's finish testing your optical drive first--the HDD partition errors appear to only be effecting using the PM program--it appears to be a *safety* feature of PM so as not to loose data.


Quote:
I downloaded the Recovery Console from MS and it will not start- I got the BSOD when I chose that option during reboot

I saw that you mentioned that in a previous post.  I was going to come back to that and ask questions once we finished troubleshooting the optical drive issue--but, being as you mentioned it again--could you provide a source for that download.  I did a Goggle search and found nothing that looked like a download from MS for the Recovery Console.  You said you *installed* that downloaded Recovery Console--what exactly does that mean--that's why I want the link to where the download came from to see if there's installation instructions, etc. ?


Quote:
The Plextor CDROM hasn't been touched since I installed it years ago to replace the original.  There was never a problem I was aware with using that Plextor although I had never tried to boot from the Partition Magic CD with either of these devices.

This statement seems to contradict this statement here:

Anybody Familiar with Partition Magic?


Quote:
The thing is, PM used to work just fine and it booted correctly from the CD

Could you clarify?  You said that you could boot from the PM CD correctly.  Was that a misstatement--meaning really you could successfully access it and *install* it when in Windows--not *boot from it*?

You also made this statement in the above mentioned link:


Quote:
I did make a clean install of WinXP around the end of 2008

How did you do that?  Were you able to successfully boot from the WinXP installation CD and perform the install from it without getting that *TXTSETUP.sif is missing or corrupt* error?


Quote:
Neither did replacing the Plextor with the original Samsung CDROM.

You've already done the next troubleshooting step that I was going to recommend!  This shows that the problem is probably not the Plextor optical drive--because the problem exists on both drives!

The evidence is now pointing at the motherboard's controller, the communication cable, or the jumper settings on both optical drives.

Let's figure out how your system is set up for your HDDs and optical drives:

Are your HDDs PATA or SATA type?

If your system is PATA based controllers--how are your HDDs and optical drive hooked up to the controllers--what's hooked up to the *primary controller* as master and/or slave--and what's hooked up to the *secondary controller* as master and/or slave?

Are you using *Cable Select* (CS or CSEL) jumper settings on the HDDs and optical drives--or specifying the *master* and *slave* with the jumpers?

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 17th, 2009 at 9:52pm
Here's something:
Interestingly I just looked at Device Manager and it  says the computer has a SATA RAID controller. Maybe this is related to my problem. 

When the computer starts it displays a page of information on the disk drives, etc.  After I installed the second hard disk that display page began showing  both disks again on separate lines below the regular info.  Here it said in green type NON RAID DISKS (not an exact quote) and below that I think something to the effect that the disk(s) are not controlled by the Raid controller.  Than there is a line with press control-I to enter the RAID BIOS but that does not do anything.  And it takes a looong time to get past that section of bootup.  Since the computer seemed to work no differently than before I just figured that was part of the deal.

It has been going on since I installed that second hard disk and it became sort of like Muzak, it just faded into the background and tonight it became the itch I had to scratch by checking Device Manager out of curiosity.

Tomorrow I will restart the computer and attempt to photograph that screen for you.



I downloaded the Recovery Console from a link given in the second page of this article from the online edition of the Washington Post.  The link asked me where I wanted to save the file rc.iso so I saved it to my downloads folder and than I ran it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/06/AR2009070602049.html

Since I couldn't boot from the XP install disk it looked like the only alternative.  I did have a Ghost image of the C: drive so what the heck!

Well I hadn't attempted to boot from the PM disk until I started looking at why PM kept telling me I had a bad hard drive.

I did install PM from the PowerQuest installation CD I bought.

After I had a series of computer problems a couple of years ago I did a clean install from my XP installation CD.  There were no issues.  A couple of days ago I loaded that XP CD again with the computer running and it started up and offered to install WinXP for me.

I am using SATA hard disks.  The Dell manual for this PC did not mention the master/slave issue in the chapters on installing hard drives and optical drives. I have two hard disks because I added a second one.  I did not do anything to the original jumpers on the Dell-installed first hard drive or the second one.


Richard



Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 18th, 2009 at 12:21am
@ Richard K


Quote:
I am using SATA hard disks.  The Dell manual for this PC did not mention the master/slave issue in the chapters on installing hard drives and optical drives.

Correct--SATA drives do not have *master/slave* settings.

Are your two optical drives also SATA--use the same type of communication connector as the HDDs?


Quote:
it  says the computer has a SATA RAID controller. Maybe this is related to my problem.

Nope!


Quote:
Than there is a line with press control-I to enter the RAID BIOS but that does not do anything.

Maybe the RAID controller has to be *enabled* in the system's BIOS before the RAID BIOS will become active and respond to that key-stroke combination.


Quote:
I downloaded the Recovery Console from a link given in the second page of this article from the online edition of the Washington Post.  The link asked me where I wanted to save the file rc.iso so I saved it to my downloads folder and than I ran it.

That's an *iso* file--when you click on it, it should bring up your default burning program and offer to burn the iso file to an optical disc--but, you said previously that you got a BSOD--is that correct?  Do you have a burning program installed?


Quote:
After I had a series of computer problems a couple of years ago I did a clean install from my XP installation CD.  There were no issues.  A couple of days ago I loaded that XP CD again with the computer running and it started up and offered to install WinXP for me.

You're doing that from within the WinXP interface--not booting from the WinXP CD--correct?

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 18th, 2009 at 3:25pm
NightOwl,
My optical disks are SATA.  I only use one in the PC.  I changed out the one I normally use for the other to determine if the optical drive is involved in these problems.


NightOwl wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 12:21am:
That's an *iso* file--when you click on it, it should bring up your default burning program and offer to burn the iso file to an optical disc--but, you said previously that you got a BSOD--is that correct?Do you have a burning program installed?

I actually have two and my wife doesn't like either.
When I ran the iso file it executed and installed Recovery Console as a boot option that now I have in addition to WinXP.  When I chose Recovery Console it appears to start normally (I guess, who knows?).  It says starting Recovery Console  (In a white bar at the bottom of the monitor screen) for some time than produces the BSOD.

Is it reasonable to assume the writer from the Washington Post "Security Fix" column is a trusted source?


NightOwl wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 12:21am:
You're doing that from within the WinXP interface--not booting from the WinXP CD--correct? 

Yes, I just restarted Windows to get to that boot screen.

As an aside, I first installed WinXP from the program CD.  It was a  clean install. Here my memory becomes fuzzy.  I think I formatted the hard disk first, I may have just formatted the C: directory as I was changing from XP Home to XP Professional.  Doesn't the installation program format the directory before installation anyway?

The second time I did a clean install was when I had a big problem.  I believe I formatted that directory and the next one where I keep most every application that gives me a choice of destination. I installed those programs again and restored all my data files from a backup.

I must have used Partition Magic from the CD to format or recreate those two directory's, or maybe all directories (fuzzy memory).  I don't think I wold have used PM  from the application that was installed in the E: directory.

Otherwise I would have had to format from the Windows installation CD. Would it have been possible to format the C: directory using Windows Disk Management from an active Windows environment? 

Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Dan Goodell on Jul 18th, 2009 at 6:57pm
Wow, 22 posts before "My optical disks are SATA."

Take it away, NightOwl!   ::)


Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 19th, 2009 at 10:08am
@ Dan Goodell


Quote:
Take it away, NightOwl!

Thanks! 

*And back to you, Dan!*

Dan--if you happen to look at this thread again--I do have a question--it appears that Richard K is able to access the WinXP installation CD to install Windows--but, not able to access the Recovery Console--although I'm no longer sure if that information is being reported accurately!  Do you have any ideas how that might be happening when booting from the WinXP installation CD?


Quote:
Wow, 22 posts before "My optical disks are SATA."

Well, that's partially my fault!  Richard K 's report of his problems with booting to the PM disc lead me astray!  He incorrectly indicated that he had been able to boot in the past to that disc--when what he really meant was he could access the disc in Windows!


Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 19th, 2009 at 11:11am
@ Richard K


Quote:
My optical disks are SATA.

Well, that explains at least 2 out of the 3 boot problems--and I maybe we can solve that 3rd problem as well!

The PartitionMagic (PM) installation disc loads a DOS optical driver that understands PATA controllers (Parallel ATA)--it does not *speak* SATA (Serial ATA)--so, it boots fine, but fails to detect your optical drive because it's on a SATA controller!  Remember, the BIOS is providing access to the *hidden boot sector* of the optical disc--so there is *access* to the optical disc for booting.  But, to assign a DOS drive letter and access *data* on the optical disc (not the hidden boot sector), you have to have a driver that can speak to a SATA controller!

Same thing for my boot disc!  I'm loading a PATA based DOS optical drive driver--so it will not find a SATA controller based optical drive!

There is a DOS based SATA optical drive driver available--but it would have to be substituted on those boot discs for the PATA drivers in order for you to have DOS drive letters assigned to your SATA optical drives so you can access the data portion of you optical discs in DOS.  (Easy to do with my boot disc--complicated to do on the PM disc!)

Where I'm confused still is your WinXP installation disc!  It sounds like you can use it to install WinXP successfully--but, you get a data read error when you try to access the Recovery Console--I'm not sure why one aspect works and not the other--I could speculate a convoluted reason, but......

The WinXP installation disc has built-in drivers for many different devices, including SATA controllers and optical drives.  But, since the WinXP disc was created, newer systems have been manufactured and correct drivers for that newer hardware may not be included.  So, when you initially boot the WinXP installation disc, down at the bottom left corner there's a line showing loading information.  For a brief moment during initial loading there is a message that says *Press F6 to load additional drivers* (or something to that effect).  If you press F6 (I usually press it several times to make sure the installation procedure catches my action!), the installation procedure *seems* to ignore you and does a few more housekeeping chores--but finally presents you with a screen that allows you to put a floppy disk in the floppy drive that has the needed driver software that's missing from the WinXP disc.

You said you have a Dell system.  You should have received a CD or floppy disk that has additional drivers and maybe other software on it.  You will have to read the manual, etc. to figure it out.  There should be a sub-directory that is probably labeled *Drivers*.  If you do not already have a floppy disk with those drivers on it, you would place the needed SATA controller driver from that CD to a floppy disk so you can load it after you press that F6.

And, maybe you have to load drivers for your SATA optical drives--I don't know about that--again you would need to read the manuals for your optical drives to possibly determine that.  Your Plextor optical drive should have a CD with additional utilities and any drivers similar to the Dell system disc.

So, if you supply those driver(s) after pressing F6, are you now able to reach the Recovery Console on the WinXP installation CD.  You have to provide the original Admin password to actually gain access the the Recovery Console.  You type *exit* and press enter to leave the Recovery Console.


Quote:
When I ran the iso file it executed and installed Recovery Console as a boot option that now I have in addition to WinXP.  When I chose Recovery Console it appears to start normally (I guess, who knows?).  It says starting Recovery Console  (In a white bar at the bottom of the monitor screen) for some time than produces the BSOD.

What do you mean by *I ran the iso file*?  The only thing I'm aware of that you can do with an *.iso* file, is burn it to an optical disc!

Here's the quote from the Washington Post's article you referenced:


Quote:
Luckily, there are free, alternative, downloadable versions: the XP Recovery Console CD and the Vista Recovery Disc. These are both .iso files (like Puppy Linux) that you can burn to bootable CDs. When you boot them, they look and behave exactly like the XP and Vista installation discs, except that when you attempt to install Windows, you get an error message. Only their repair tools work.

That says nothing about being able to *execute and install the Recovery Console*!  Now, you can in fact *install* the Recovery Console to your HDD and have a new entry added to your *boot.ini* file so that you can choose to boot to the Recovery Console during the boot process--instead of booting from the WinXP installation CD.  But, there's a very specific procedure and command line that you use to do that--and to my knowledge an *.iso* file should not do that!  So, what's going on with this?

If the Recovery Console that's installed does not have the necessary newer SATA drivers as discussed above, that may be the source of the BSOD problem--but, I'm still unclear how an *.iso* file *installed* the Recovery Console!


Quote:
Is it reasonable to assume the writer from the Washington Post "Security Fix" column is a trusted source?

Well, usually--but the download did not do what it says it's supposed to do--unless you have done something else with it!

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 19th, 2009 at 10:03pm
Thanks,

I will find those SATA drivers and try to get them into the computer.


NightOwl wrote on Jul 19th, 2009 at 11:11am:
That says nothing about being able to *execute and install the Recovery Console*!Now, you can in fact *install* the Recovery Console to your HDD and have a new entry added to your *boot.ini* file so that you can choose to boot to the Recovery Console during the boot process--instead of booting from the WinXP installation CD.But, there's a very specific procedure and command line that you use to do that--and to my knowledge an *.iso* file should not do that!So, what's going on with this?


Well, I downloaded the rc.iso from the linked site and it went to the "downloads" folder as expected.

I pressed START, selected RUN and navigated to the downloads folder.  I selected the file re.iso and than RUN.  Either it rebooted or it told me to reboot.  Anyway now during startup I get a screen where I can select either WinXP or "recovery console" I suppose as a boot option.

  Selecting Recovery Console brings me to the BSOD.  What can I say?

Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 20th, 2009 at 12:40am
I have been thinking.  Tomorrow I will burn rc.iso to a CD and try to boot from that.  Probably should have done that in the beginning.  I guess it was pretty dumb to try to run an iso file as if it were an executable file.
Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 20th, 2009 at 8:54am
@ Richard K


Quote:
I pressed START, selected RUN and navigated to the downloads folder.  I selected the file re.iso and than RUN.  Either it rebooted or it told me to reboot.  Anyway now during startup I get a screen where I can select either WinXP or "recovery console" I suppose as a boot option.

I downloaded that same file.  Did exactly as you have outlined above using the *Run* command line under *Start*.  When I hit *OK*--it brought up my burning program requesting that I put a blank disc in the optical burner drive.

And, when I click (double-click if that's how you're set up), it too brings up my burning program.  So as you said:


Quote:
What can I say?



Quote:
I have been thinking.  Tomorrow I will burn rc.iso to a CD and try to boot from that.

Most likely--that Recovery Console is the exact same program as on you WinXP installation CD--just without the Windows installation files--so if you try to select one of the *Install WinXP...* options it will not respond or give you an error message.

Also, if you need to use that F6 to add your particular SATA controller drivers during the first part of the boot/loading process on your WinXP installation CD--then it will probably require the same with this Recovery Console CD!

But, it's a good exercise to test.  If using the F6 routine and adding your SATA drivers solves the access to the Recovery Console, we will have solved *all* the optical drive boot issues you have discovered recently.

Just so you know, there doesn't appear to be any problem with your actual Master Boot Record (MBR)--based on your previous PartitionMagic (PM) *PartInfo* report, the problem is with where the data begins on each partition on that HDD where you have your OS installed.  So using the Recovery Console to mess with the MBR would not be recommended/necessary--why tempt the fates if it ain't broke!!!

We will use other tools to fix that problem!

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Dan Goodell on Jul 20th, 2009 at 6:56pm

NightOwl wrote on Jul 19th, 2009 at 10:08am:
it appears that Richard K is able to access the WinXP installation CD to install Windows--but, not able to access the Recovery Console--although I'm no longer sure if that information is being reported accurately!Do you have any ideas how that might be happening when booting from the WinXP installation CD?


I don't think I've ever tried installing XP from a SATA CD drive, but I would expect the underlying principal to be pretty much the same as from an IDE drive.  As you know, the BIOS is able to read and boot the "floppy" boot image from the CD without needing additional drivers, but the operating system on that boot image must load a CD device driver to gain access to the rest of the CD's contents.

In the case of a DOS bootable CD for an IDE CD drive, we make sure the boot image includes a DOS IDE/ATAPI driver such as the one from Oak Technologies.  In the case of a DOS bootable CD for a SATA CD drive, we need to include a DOS SATA driver such as the one from Panasonic.  That's familiar territory to the regulars on this forum.

The XP CD boots the WinPE operating system, but the principal should be the same.  The boot image needs either an IDE or SATA CD driver compatible with WinPE.  Microsoft includes an IDE driver with the WinPE boot image on a XP installation CD, but I'd be surprised if it included a SATA driver.  XP preceded the use of SATA hard disks, and we're familiar with the F6 dance needed to introduce a SATA driver to the process when installing XP from an IDE CD drive to a SATA hard disk.  SATA CD drives came along even later, so I wouldn't expect the WinPE boot image on the XP CD to include a SATA driver.  That means you wouldn't be able to read content (other than the boot image) from the CD.  Note that attempting to slip-stream a SATA driver into the XP CD won't change that.  That only affects what is included in the content portion of the CD, not the boot image.  You would need to embed the driver in the WinPE boot image.

AFAIK, the general rule is you always need to add a device driver to read content from a CD or DVD, whether it's DOS or WinPE, and whether it's real-mode or protected-mode.  For hard disks, you do not need to add a driver to read/write in real-mode, regardless of whether it's IDE or SATA.  (The driver is already built into the BIOS.)  You always need to add a driver to read/write in protected-mode.

In the basic scenario where one installs XP from an IDE CD to an IDE hard disk, my understanding is the BIOS boots WinPE in real-mode from the CD's boot image, WinPE loads an IDE CD driver, Setup reads content from the CD and copies it to the hard disk, and copies protected-mode drivers for the CD and hard disk.  Then the system reboots itself from the hard disk.  The CPU is switched into protected-mode, but by now the appropriate protected-mode drivers are on the hard disk, so Setup continues to have access to both the CD and hard disk to finish the installation.

In the scenario where one installs XP from an IDE CD to a SATA hard disk, the same sequence would work until you get to the part where the CPU switches into protected-mode.  At that point, Setup loses further access to the SATA hard disk.  The solution is to copy a SATA protected-mode driver onto the hard disk during the real-mode, "copying files" phase so that it's available after the reboot.  That can be done either via F6, or by adding the SATA driver into the content of the XP CD.

In the scenario where one installs XP from a SATA CD, I think you would get hung up at the part where Setup tries to read content from the CD.



Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 20th, 2009 at 10:38pm

Dan Goodell wrote on Jul 20th, 2009 at 6:56pm:
In the scenario where one installs XP from an IDE CD to a SATA hard disk, the same sequence would work until you get to the part where the CPU switches into protected-mode.At that point, Setup loses further access to the SATA hard disk.The solution is to copy a SATA protected-mode driver onto the hard disk during the real-mode, "copying files" phase so that it's available after the reboot.That can be done either via F6, or by adding the SATA driver into the content of the XP CD.

In the scenario where one installs XP from a SATA CD, I think you would get hung up at the part where Setup tries to read content from the CD.


Thanks, Dan.
That all is a little confusing to me- not a professional or even too familiar with the workings of a computer.

You referred to instaling XP from an IDE CDROM but I installed it from my SATA drive with no issues.

So far I can't find a SATA driver on my Dell Resource CD.  However the computer was delivered with a  SATA CD-RW drive model #GSA-H31N

Made by: HLDS (send email)
Category:Optical Drives Class:SATA
Model #:GSA-H30L,GSA-H30N,GSA-H31L,GSA-H31N 

I found this at the Serial ATA International website.

If this is correct- a SATA drive- could I put this original CD-RW back back in the PC and expect it to find a SATA disk driver?

I have spent a good bit of time searching for an available SATA driver for my Plextor.  So far no such luck.  On a couple of different forums discussing PM and SATA drives a poster stated that PM8 would see a SATA CD-RW and work with it, what ever that means.

Plextor suggested I follow a link to Symantec tech support.  There were several discussions of PM and SATA drives but no actual SATA drivers as far as I can see.

I may chat with Symantec support but I have found it difficult to communicate a problem beyond what is apparently in a book they use to respond.

I could try MicroSoft support, see what they have.

Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Dan Goodell on Jul 21st, 2009 at 5:28am

Richard K wrote on Jul 20th, 2009 at 10:38pm:
You referred to instaling XP from an IDE CDROM but I installed it from my SATA drive with no issues.

The symptoms you've related in your earlier posts in this thread don't support that statement and appear to be more consistent with my interpretation.

As I said, I've never actually tried to install XP from a SATA CD drive, so I could be wrong.  I've seen people claim that they were able to install XP on a SATA hard disk without adding a driver, and then jump to the conclusion that the XP CD must support SATA hard disks.  But invariably they'd failed to recognize that their BIOS was set to a compatibility mode that treated the SATA hard disk like an ordinary ATA/IDE disk.  The XP CD didn't actually support SATA, it just didn't see a SATA hard disk in the system.

If it's possible for the BIOS to incorporate such a compatibility mode for SATA hard disks, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that might be done for SATA CD drives, too.  I haven't seen evidence of that, but my experience tinkering with SATA CD drives has been limited so far.




Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 21st, 2009 at 10:12am
@ Richard K


Quote:
So far I can't find a SATA driver on my Dell Resource CD.

Is there an on-line user manual for your Dell motherboard/system that you can link to so we can read the manual?  Or, what is the specific Dell system id number for the specific model?

The driver may not be obvious on the CD--here's where I find my RAID drivers needed for adding during a WinXP install by using the F6 routine:


Quote:
X:\Other\Promise\IdeRAID\chip20276\Driver

So, to find this, I had to know the Maker (Promise--found in the motherboard manual), the type of controller (IdeRAID), and the actual controller chipset (chip20276--found in the motherboard manual) to locate the correct *driver* sub-directory on the CD!

Here's the list of directories and files under that *driver* directory:


Quote:
NT4  (a directory)
Win9x-ME  (a directory)
Win2000  (a directory)
WinXP  (a directory)
FASTTRAK
README.TXT
setup.txt
Txtsetup.oem


And, here's the *setup.txt* instructions on how to use this driver:


Quote:
Windows xp
Installing Driver During New Windows xp Installation
Note: Before the Windows  xp installing, please copy the whole files in the folder as follows "\Other\Promise\IDERAID\20276\Winxp\" of the Driver CD(Support CD came with the M/B) to a floppy disk.

1. CD-ROM Install: Boot from the CD-ROM. Press <F6> after the message "Press F6 if you need to install third party SCSI or RAID driver" appears.
2. When the "Windows XP Setup" window is generated, press "S" to Specify an Additional Device(s)
3. Insert the Driver diskette into driver A: and press "Enter" key.
4. Choose "WinXP FastTrak100-Lite Controller" from the list that appears on screen, then press the "Enter" key.
5. The Windows XP Setup screen will appear again saying "Setup will load support for the following mass storage devices:" The list will include "WinXP FastTrak100-Lite controller"..
NOTE: If you need to specify any additional devices to be installed, do so at this time. Once all devices are specified, continue to step 6.
6. From the Windows XP Setup screen, press the Enter key. Setup will now load all device files and then continue the Windows XP installation.

I have included the above not because it specifically relates to you--but, because it illustrates that the hardware manufacturers sometime give inaccurate instructions and advice for using their products!!!!

Unless I am reading it wrong--it says to *copy (all the) files in the folder "WinXP" to a floppy disk*.  If you do that, you will get an error when you use the floppy disk when asked for in the F6 procedure!  It turns out that the instructions should have said *copy all the files in the folder "driver"* so it includes the sub-directories for NT4 and Win2000--as well as WinXP and the other files.  The reason being--the file *Txtsetup.oem* which is not in the WinXP directory is needed--it tells WinXP's installation routine how to install the drivers via the F6 routine. 

But, that's not all!  The *Txtsetup.oem* also tells the install routine to look at the NT4 and Win2000 directories to make sure you are not trying to install the drivers to those OS's!  So, if those sub-directories are not present, the *Txtsetup.oem* will cause a installation error message and the drivers will not be installed!!!!

Again, this is not specific to your situation--it represents my issues I had to work through!  But, my point is you need to look for your drivers and they may be buried deep within the CD disc.  And, you have to find whatever information is given on how to install those drivers--and even that may be less than accurate!

Does your Dell User Guide talk anywhere about needing to use F6 to install SATA controller drivers for WinXP installation?

But, if you have a Dell--didn't WinXP come already installed?

Did you have a *Recovery Partition* and/or a *Utility Partition* on the HDD along with your OS partition?

I have seen reference that you often do not get a WinXP installation CD if you have a Recovery Partition because that re-installs your WinXP to the *factory fresh* state--so no WinXP installation CD is needed!

Also--some oem WinXP CD's do not actually have the *Recovery Console* available on the CD depending on how the OEM (Dell) have created their WinXP installation CD!  Maybe that's why you can not access the Recovery Console on you CD.  That may be because there's supposed to be a *Utility Partition* on your system to use for troubleshooting instead--don't know for sure--that's why I asked about an on-line User Guide for your system so we can look at the details!

If you can find a non-OEM WinXP installation CD--i.e. a retail WinXP installation CD (borrow from someone?)--try that to see if you can access the Recovery Console (but, remember...you might need to use the F6 routine to install SATA controller drivers for the installation to continue)!

Or, try your WinXp installation CD on another system to see if you can access the Recovery Console on that CD (and remember--depending on the system--it may need the F6 routine to load the installation files--the owner of the system has to know if that's needed or not!).


Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 21st, 2009 at 10:16am
@ Dan Goodell


Quote:
I've seen people claim that they were able to install XP on a SATA hard disk without adding a driver, and then jump to the conclusion that the XP CD must support SATA hard disks.  But invariably they'd failed to recognize that their BIOS was set to a compatibility mode that treated the SATA hard disk like an ordinary ATA/IDE disk.  The XP CD didn't actually support SATA, it just didn't see a SATA hard disk in the system.

Arrrrgh!...so many confounding variables!!!

Richard K.

Can you look in your BIOS to see what your SATA controller(s) mode are set at?

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 21st, 2009 at 11:12am
I see the following in the BIOS

SATA operation = RAID ON

SATA-1  ON
Controller Details
     Controller = Serial ATA
     Port = SATA-1

I am going to have to take a break from this.  My wife is coming back from a trip and she gets P.O.ed when I start "fixing" the computer, especially when it is working. 

I appreciate your patience and willingness to try to help me.  I'll get back to this a little later.

One last question for now.  If I still need a SATA driver will I get one if I buy a new CD-RW?  If that will help CD-RWs are not expensive these days.

Thanks,
Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Dan Goodell on Jul 22nd, 2009 at 2:06am

NightOwl wrote on Jul 21st, 2009 at 10:12am:
Is there an on-line user manual for your Dell motherboard/system that you can link to so we can read the manual?Or, what is the specific Dell system id number for the specific model?

Yes, Dell has online manuals... although Richard is still keeping it secret which Dell model he has.  Dell's CMOS setup options vary by model.  Some models have an IDE compatibility mode for SATA hard disks, others don't.  In some models RAID mode really means RAID, while in others it just means "anything other than IDE-compatible."  It's hard to say without knowing the model.



Richard K wrote on Jul 21st, 2009 at 11:12am:
If I still need a SATA driver will I get one if I buy a new CD-RW?

I wouldn't expect so.  The driver relates to the SATA controller chip on the motherboard, not the storage device--IOW, you're focused on the wrong end of the SATA cable.  On Dells, it will often be an Intel controller (on motherboards with Intel CPUs) or Via controller (on motherboards with AMD CPUs).  The driver may be on the Resource CD, but it's generally available from the Dell website, as well.





Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 22nd, 2009 at 11:10am
The computer is a Dell E520.

There is a driver for the  original HLDS CD-RW on the Dell site.  They also had 15 additional drivers but all of those appeared to be for specific CD-RWs.

I will put the original CD-RW back in and try it out.

Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 23rd, 2009 at 1:20am
@ Richard K


Quote:
The computer is a Dell E520

Does this look like your User Manual?


Quote:
There is a driver for the  original HLDS CD-RW on the Dell site.  They also had 15 additional drivers but all of those appeared to be for specific CD-RWs.

I will put the original CD-RW back in and try it out.

Richard--you're not paying attention!


Dan Goodell wrote on Jul 22nd, 2009 at 2:06am:

Richard K wrote on Jul 21st, 2009 at 11:12am:
If I still need a SATA driver will I get one if I buy a new CD-RW?

I wouldn't expect so.  The driver relates to the SATA controller chip on the motherboard, not the storage device--IOW, you're focused on the wrong end of the SATA cable.  On Dells, it will often be an Intel controller (on motherboards with Intel CPUs) or Via controller (on motherboards with AMD CPUs).  The driver may be on the Resource CD, but it's generally available from the Dell website, as well.

(IOW=*in other words*)

The *driver* we're wondering about is not for the optical drive!  It is for the SATA controller on the motherboard!

Clicking on the Drivers and Downloads link doesn't show any SATA controller driver that I can recognize that would be used for the F6 procedure during WinXP installation!

Your WinXP installation CD--where did that disc come from?  Was it included with your Dell system?  Or, is it a retail installation CD?

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Dan Goodell on Jul 23rd, 2009 at 8:28am

Richard K wrote on Jul 22nd, 2009 at 11:10am:
The computer is a Dell E520.

There is a driver for the original HLDS CD-RW on the Dell site. They also had 15 additional drivers but all of those appeared to be for specific CD-RWs.

Those aren't drivers, those are firmware patches for the firmware inside the various CD/DVD drives.



NightOwl wrote on Jul 23rd, 2009 at 1:20am:
Clicking on the Drivers and Downloads link doesn't show any SATA controller driver that I can recognize that would be used for the F6 procedure during WinXP installation!

It's there, but you gotta have a knack for the somewhat obtuse way Dell does things.  You'll find the SATA driver on the page to download E520 drivers, XP OS, SATA Drives, Intel - Driver.  Ignore Dell's "Installation Instructions" and just download R158601.EXE, extract the contents, and dump them on a floppy.

I believe the E520 BIOS has the ability to use IDE-compatibility mode for a SATA hard disk.  In the E520 BIOS, the "SATA Operation" settings are either "RAID On" for SATA mode, or "RAID Autodetect/ATA" for IDE-compatible mode.  (Yeah, I know, not very intuitive.)

BIOS default on many Dells is often "Autodetect/ATA", so that may explain how Richard previously got by without knowing about F6.  If in ATA mode, you shouldn't need the SATA driver.  In SATA mode ("RAID On"), you need the driver and F6 procedure.

Here's a link for Richard that illustrates the F6 process.  It specifically describes RAID, but SATA falls under exactly the same procedure.





Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 23rd, 2009 at 9:51am
@ Dan Goodell


Quote:
It's there, but you gotta have a knack for the somewhat obtuse way Dell does things.  You'll find the SATA driver on the page to download E520 drivers, XP OS, SATA Drives, Intel - Driver.  Ignore Dell's "Installation Instructions" and just download R158601.EXE, extract the contents, and dump them on a floppy.

Couldn't figure it out at first!  That *R158601.exe* is not apparent on the download page.

It's the *Intel Driver*, v7.5.0.1017, A08--the second item listed under the *SATA Drives (8)* category!  After you click download, it then shows that *R158601.exe* file name!

I'm out of town until next week and away from computer access--so won't be able to continue until then!

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Rad on Jul 23rd, 2009 at 5:23pm

NightOwl wrote on Jul 23rd, 2009 at 9:51am:
I'm out of town until next week and away from computer access

Going camping?

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 28th, 2009 at 12:41am
@ Rad

Yup--up in the Pacific NW Cascade mountains--beautiful, invigorating, refreshing, renewing--did I say I enjoyed myself?!

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 28th, 2009 at 12:44am
@ Richard K

Are you still interested in pursuing this? 

Waiting for answer:


Quote:
Your WinXP installation CD--where did that disc come from?  Was it included with your Dell system?  Or, is it a retail installation CD?

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by Richard K on Jul 30th, 2009 at 7:12pm
I haven't forgotten or abandoned this business with the optical drive.  I have downloaded the SATA driver and gotten in onto a floppy.  There are some things I have to attend to that have higher priority right now.

It will be a week or two before I can get back to this.

My WinXP installation CD came with the computer.  It is a Dell reinstallation CD.

Richard

Title: Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Post by NightOwl on Jul 31st, 2009 at 12:46am
@ Richard K


Quote:
It will be a week or two before I can get back to this.

Okay--let us know when you're able to continue--I think we are close to having all the mysteries cleared up as far as the optical drive issues are concerned.


Quote:
My WinXP installation CD came with the computer.  It is a Dell installation CD.

Well, I don't know for sure, but if it's provided by Dell, then there's a possibility that they have added the needed SATA controller driver to that CD--it's a process called *slip-streaming* added drivers to a WinXP installation CD so you do not have to use the *F6* procedure to add those drivers when booting to the WinXP installation CD.  I will download those drivers and take a look at the file names--we can then search the Dell *installation CD* to see if those drivers are already present!

Also, I'm betting that the *Recovery Console* function has not been included on that Dell CD--wish someone with a Dell that has a similar *installation CD* could confirm if the Recovery Console in on their CD or not!

Radified Community Forums » Powered by YaBB 2.4!
YaBB © 2000-2009. All Rights Reserved.