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Message started by Helen Monte on Nov 14th, 2009 at 4:41am

Title: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Nov 14th, 2009 at 4:41am
Will the new disk boot after cloning only the Windows partition from a dual-boot system (i.e. multi-partitioned disk) ?

Summary:
I have an IBM disk that has, say, 2 partitions, one Mandrake Linux and another Windows XP.
1. I tried a disk-to-disk cloning using Ghost 11 to clone everything from my IBM IDE disk to a new Hitachi SATA disk.  I got an error in the process, I ignored it and I cannot boot from the new disk.  The boot manager does not show up on the screen and I got a bunch of 9's instead.
2. Since I never used that Linux partition, I am considering doing a partition-to-partition cloning of only my WinXP partition.  But I read something about a MBR, Master Boot Record. I am concerned that if I do not copy this MBR from my old disk to my new disk, my new disk won't boot.  If Ghost does copy this MBR in my cloning of the Windows partition, then this MBR would say something about a Linux patition or a dual-boot, and then it would not find the Linux partition on my new disk and I would have some trouble somehow.
Details:
1. The disk-to-disk cloning seems to be a success and I can see all my JPG photos etc in the new disk, except for the fact that I cannot boot from it, as described above.
The Ghost log file says this (you can see that I have a third Western Digital SATA disk):

*********************************
Date   : Fri Nov 13 01:20:36 2009
Error Number: (29003)
Message: Bad block(s) encountered on read: 0x1, drive:2, 1 sectors starting from absolute sector 0
Version: 11.0.2.1573 (Nov 14 2007, Build=1573)
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Command line arguments:
Active Switches :
       AutoName
PathName            :
DumpFile            :
DumpPos             : 0
FlagImplode         : 0
FlagExplode         : 0

Operation Details :
  Total size.........0
  MB copied..........0
  MB remaining.......0
  Percent complete...0%
  Speed..............0 MB/min
  Time elapsed.......0:00   
  Time remaining.....0:00   

Program Call Stack
AbortLog
Generic_Abort
ReadDiskSectorsNoOverlayTranslation
ReadDiskSectors
checkForDynamicPartitions
DynamicDiskDetect
LocalFindDiskType
GetLocalGeometryAndDiskType
GetGeometryAndDiskType
PaintDisplayDriveData
CopyDiskToDisk
CopyMainline
AttemptOperation
sub_main
main

Call Stack
Address            Frame              Logical Addr              Module
0x000000007c90e514 0x000000000012d2e8 KiFastSystemCallRet+0x0000000000000000
0x000000000012d5e8 0x0000000000000003 0x0000:0x0000000000000000
End Call Stack


Start heap available: 553357312
Cur   heap available: 493256704
Total Memory:         1073201152

Allocated
  33500 ..\ghost.cpp:1396
Free

Fat details:

NTFS details:
----------------

NTFS Global Flags:
----------------
      contiguousWrite=1 forceDiskClusterMapping=0
      inhibitCHKDSK=1 ignoreBadLog=0 ignoreCHKDSKBit=0
      enable_cache=0 xfrbuflen=0
      last_attr_type = 0
      loadExact = 0
----------------

Disk Error Details

Win32 error: (0x00000037)
The specified network resource or device is no longer available.



Disk Info :
  remote.............0
  drive..............2
  sectorsUsedCount.......312560577
  estimatedUsedCount.....310902080
  numPartitions..............1
  Version............0

# Ord Boot Id Ext     First        Num       Last       Used NTFS
0  0    1   7 No         63  312560577  312560640  310902080 Yes

Disk Info :
  remote.............0
  drive..............0
  sectorsUsedCount.......0
  estimatedUsedCount.....0
  numPartitions..............0
  Version............0

# Ord Boot Id Ext     First        Num       Last       Used NTFS

Fixed Drives

Drive 0 IC35L060AVV207-0       VNVB01G2RBS1JH
WinNT (Active)
Total Sectors            120103200
Bytes per Sector         512
MB                       58644
Cylinders                7476
Heads                    255
Sectors per Track        63
Successful IO Count      54

Drive 1 WDC WD1600JD-00HBB0      WD-WMAL93833260
WinNT (Active)
Total Sectors            312581808
Bytes per Sector         512
MB                       152627
Cylinders                19457
Heads                    255
Sectors per Track        63
Successful IO Count      175

Drive 2 Hitachi HDT721064SLA360 A3AA
ASPI
Total Sectors            1250263728
Bytes per Sector         512
MB                       610480
Successful IO Count      0
Error Count (bad media)  0
Error Count (other)      1
Last Error
Win32 error: (0x00000037)
The specified network resource or device is no longer available.




WinNT (Active)
Total Sectors            1250263728
Bytes per Sector         512
MB                       610480
Cylinders                77825
Heads                    255
Sectors per Track        63
Successful IO Count      10
Error Count (bad media)  0
Error Count (other)      2
Last Error
Win32 error: (0x00000037)
The specified network resource or device is no longer available.
....
2. I never used that Linux partition; actually there is some error when I boot Linux up from the IBM disk. I never cared to fix it. So now I am considering cloning only the Windows partition.  But I don't know whether the MBR would be copied in the process.  If it is not copied, would BIOS (?) create a new MBR that boots (only) from the WinXP partition on the new disk?  I am planning to retire my IBM disk.

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Nov 14th, 2009 at 10:23am
@ Helen Monte

Welcome to Radified Forums.

I moved your post to this forum because your question applies to Ghost v11.xx, which is the Corporate version of Ghost that is based on the original DOS based Ghost.† You originally posted in the forum for the current retail versions of Ghost that are based on the DriveImage program by Powerquest--which was bought out by Symantec.† Symantec has muddied the waters by sharing the *same program name*, but the two programs are completely unrelated to each other!

You have several different issues that you will have to deal with based on what you have posted so far--and more information will probably be needed:

1.†


Quote:
I have an IBM disk that has, say, 2 partitions, one Mandrake Linux and another Windows XP.

In order to *dual boot*, you have to have a *boot manager* program of some type.† The one I hear talked about most often in conjunction with Linux is *Grub*.

I'm not a *dual boot* with Linux expert, so hopefully someone else can offer guidance here--but, we need to know the details of how your system is setup for dual booting and what flavor of boot manager you have installed.

2.


Quote:
1. I tried a disk-to-disk cloning using Ghost 11 to clone everything from my IBM IDE disk to a new Hitachi SATA disk.

Looks like you are attempting to do the cloning on a system that is not the original system that the IBM (aka Hitachi HDT721064SLA360 A3AA) HDD is from.

What exactly are you intending to do?† Ghost can copy a HDD with ease, but it is not a *migration tool*--meaning it is not intended to let you transfer your OS from one system to another system where the hardware has changed.

The WinXP OS on the ide IBM HDD will have one set of drivers for communicating with the HDD through a PATA IDE controller--but, it will not have the needed drivers to communicate with that same OS once it's on a SATA based HDD--completely different drivers--so even if you transfer the data from the IBM to the SATA HDD--booting will probably fail--unless other measures are taken!

3.


Quote:
I got an error in the process, I ignored it and I cannot boot from the new disk.



Quote:
Message: Bad block(s) encountered on read: 0x1, drive:2, 1 sectors starting from absolute sector 0

That's probably not a plan for success!† Any time an error is reported, that creates a high probability for failure!† Probably need to correct the *bad block(s)* error before continuing.† WinXP has a† *Check Disk* (or is it *Scan Disk*--can't remember!), or third party disk utilities like *Perfect Disk* or *Disk Keeper* can often help with these issues.† I think *PartitionMagic* (a partitioning tool) can also deal with *bad blocks or sectors*.

4.


Quote:
2. Since I never used that Linux partition, I am considering doing a partition-to-partition cloning of only my WinXP partition.† But I read something about a MBR, Master Boot Record. I am concerned that if I do not copy this MBR from my old disk to my new disk, my new disk won't boot.† If Ghost does copy this MBR in my cloning of the Windows partition, then this MBR would say something about a Linux patition or a dual-boot, and then it would not find the Linux partition on my new disk and I would have some trouble somehow.

If you remove the *boot manager* that has both the WinXP and Linux references so your system will boot only to WinXP, that will solve any problem with references to the Linux partition.

You could then use Ghost to do a *Partition-to-Disk* clone--this will make the destination HDD such that it has just the WinXP partition taking up the whole disk.† But, the *boot.ini* file, which controls the boot process on a WinXP system telling the boot files where to find the boot partition for WinXP, will need to be pointing to the correct partition on the destination HDD--most likely it will after eliminating the boot manager that controls the dual boot with Linux, but that would have to be verified and adjusted if needed.

5.


Quote:
I am planning to retire my IBM disk.

Have you been having errors or other issues with the IBM disk?

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Nov 14th, 2009 at 12:51pm
I will collect more info this afternoon.  But for now, ...
2. I got confused with the word "system" you used. Why did you say "Looks like you are attempting to do the cloning on a system that is not the original system that the IBM (aka Hitachi HDT721064SLA360 A3AA) HDD is from"?  What makes it look like that way?  Why IBM is aka Hitachi? I bought this computer with the IBM disk installed inside it many years ago from an independent vendor.  I do not know whether the IBM disk was installed in a different computer before, if that was what you meant?  As I said, I have a third Western Digital internal disk, I have a copy of WinXP in it too, and my Ghost is on it; so I boot up and run Ghost from my Western Digital.  Maybe that's what you mean?
What I intend to do is to retire my IBM disk and use this Hitachi disk (and the Western Digital disk) from now on, booting up from the WinXP on the Hitachi disk.  You call it "migration" and Ghost is not for it?
5. By and large, I have not had any problem with the IBM disk except I am not able to boot up Linux.  I still can boot up WinXP from there and no data has ever been lost.  But now it (i.e. the Windows partition) is 99% full.

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Nov 14th, 2009 at 4:59pm
"it is not a *migration tool*--meaning it is not intended to let you transfer your OS from one system to another system where the hardware has changed."
Maybe I got the wrong impression of what Ghost can do.  Radified Guide page 4 says: "There is no reason to create an image of a drive/partition/disk other than the one containing your operating system. ... If for some reason (any reason), your system won't boot, and you can't figure out what in tarnation went wrong .. simply ... point-n-shoot.  ... It's better than Windows System Restore, which can't help you if your hard drive dies. ... The ability to restore my system .. no matter what went wrong ..  Ghost neutralizes any trepidation you might encounter when experimenting with new software or hardware ..."  It does not say I have to restore to the same (type of) hard disk.  To me, it says that if my hard disk, containing my OS, dies for any reason, including some permanent physical damage that it is no longer usable, I can restore the image to a new good hard disk.  Am I missing something?


Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Nov 14th, 2009 at 5:09pm
4. "You could then use Ghost to do a *Partition-to-Disk* clone"
As Radified Guide page 14 says, "Notice that you cannot clone Partition -> To Disk, nor can you clone Disk -> To Partition. "

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Nov 14th, 2009 at 7:58pm
@ Helen Monte


Quote:
"Looks like you are attempting to do the cloning on a system that is not the original system that the IBM (aka Hitachi HDT721064SLA360 A3AA) HDD is from"?† What makes it look like that way?† Why IBM is aka Hitachi?


Well, your new information has changed some of my initial *assumptions* based on a quick review of the Ghost log file.† I misread the *error* message thinking it was coming from the IBM HDD--and I think *Hitachi* has bought out several of the IBM lines of HDDs--so thought the labeling and HDD ID were *mismatched*.

So, need to re-visit some of the statements I made:

But, before I do, let's look at your hardware setup closer so I don't make any more incorrect assumptions.

So, you have a system with 3 HDDs--drive 0 is the IBM, drive 1 is the WD, and drive 2 is the Hitachi.

And, apparently the IBM is an PATA IDE, and the Hitachi is a SATA.† So, what's the WD--SATA or PATA?

You must have a system that has both PATA and SATA controllers--correct?


Quote:
As I said, I have a third Western Digital internal disk, I have a copy of WinXP in it too, and my Ghost is on it; so I boot up and run Ghost from my Western Digital.

How do you boot to the WD copy of WinXP--do you change the boot order in the BIOS, or do you use a boot manager to select which OS to boot from during initial boot?

Is the WinXP on the WD HDD a *clone* of the WinXP that's on the IBM--or were they separate *clean installs*?


Quote:
What I intend to do is to retire my IBM disk and use this Hitachi disk (and the Western Digital disk) from now on, booting up from the WinXP on the Hitachi disk.† You call it "migration" and Ghost is not for it?


Depending on your answers above may influence the results of transferring you IBM based WinXP (PATA) to the Hitachi based (SATA) HDD!†

The real question--*Is WinXP able to handle switching from PATA to SATA controllers without additional intervention?*† Ghost will not make any changes to the WinXP drivers--it will simply copy the OS as it exists on the IBM PATA HDD and transfer it to the Hitachi SATA HDD.† Will WinXP be able to switch from one type of HDD controller driver to the other type--I don't know--certainly giving it a try will answer the question!!!

*Migration* of an OS usually means transferring an OS from one system to another with different hardware on each system.† But, you have *different* hardware on the *same system*--both PATA and SATA HDD controllers--so you may have to deal with the drivers not matching if you switch controller types.


Quote:
It does not say I have to restore to the same (type of) hard disk.† To me, it says that if my hard disk, containing my OS, dies for any reason, including some permanent physical damage that it is no longer usable, I can restore the image to a new good hard disk.† Am I missing something?

Yes, you can transfer it to any *new good hard disk*, but when the OS attempts to boot, will the necessary HDD controller drivers be available--if you have changed to a different (type of) hard disk!† The statement is absolutely correct if you replace an existing HDD with a similar HDD--it can be bigger or smaller than the original as long as the data will fit--but, if the type of HDD changes, then most bets are off--it may work--but may not!!!

Look here for more info:† Radified Guide to Norton Ghost, page 13--see *Restoring Image to/from different PC* at the bottom of the page.† So, the question becomes, are the differences great enough to make WinXP choke?!


Quote:
4. "You could then use Ghost to do a *Partition-to-Disk* clone"
As Radified Guide page 14 says, "Notice that you cannot clone Partition -> To Disk, nor can you clone Disk -> To Partition. "

My bad--the statement in the Guide is correct--if doing a *direct* clone from one drive to another.† I usually use *image files*--so I make an image and store it to an appropriate location.† Then I *clone* by restoring the image file to a new destination HDD.† If you do it this way, you can do what I said.† You would create the image of the disk with multiple partitions using *Local > Disk > To Image*.† Then you can do a restore *Local > Disk > from Image*.† You then select the image file.† It will then give you the partitions in that file.† If you select only the one partition if you wish, and then it will be restored to the entire destination HDD.

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Nov 14th, 2009 at 10:50pm
Yes, my system has 3 internal hard disks now: IBM IDE, Western Digital SATA, and Hitachi SATA.
WD is SATA.† My motherboard must have controllers for PATA and SATA because I can see the contents of all three disks.
And I think my Mandrake's dual-booter is LILO, not GRUB.
OK, I read Page 13 of the Radified Guide.† I am now inclined to think that the Guide needs to be rewritten and clarified. Page 14 should not depict such a rosy picture about Ghost and it should make reference to Page 13.† I mean, it says in Page 14 that if your hard disk dies for any reason, Ghost can save you the day.† Well, my IBM hard disk has lasted for like 8 years and my WD disk for about 5 years, if one day they die, it is likely that I am not able to replace them with very similar disks even if I want to.† If I need to take extra measures regarding these drivers, Registry, etc, in order to restore my system, then the benefit of Ghosting my disk is quite severely limited.† If I need to "bite the bullet and install Windows from scratch" as Page 13 suggests, then why would I use Ghost to back up the disk containing my OS?† Why not simply back up the data only?† What is the fundamental benefit of using Ghost as far as backing up the system (not distributing same software) is concerned?
Pgae 13 says "Suppose you get a new PC. You might want to avoid the the time it takes to re-install all your software programs and re-configure system settings by restoring the image of your old system to your new one.† ... I suggest you bite the bullet and install Windows from scratch."† If one is better off installing Windows from scratch, then why use Ghost to back up the system?† One cannot assume the user has a couple of the same hard disks sitting idle in stock so in case the one in use dies, he can replace it with an identical hard disk in order for Ghost to work, can one?
My friend suggested me instal WinXP from scratch to the Hitachi SATA, since I have the installation disk.† The purpose is to set up boot.ini, ntldr files, the mbr and a Windows partition. And then I do a partition-to-partition clone of my Windows partition from my IBM IDE to the Hitachi SATA.† (Then I don't need to worry about Linux.) Yes, it would overwrite the contents on the Hitachi but not the boot.ini, ntldr files, and mbr - hopefully. Would it work?† Still subject to the "similar hardware" requirement?† And this installation disk is not the same as the one I used to install the WinXP on my IBM disk some 8 years ago.

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Nov 15th, 2009 at 1:26am
@ Helen Monte


Quote:
Yes, my system has 3 internal hard disks now: IBM IDE, Western Digital SATA, and Hitachi SATA.
WD is SATA.

So, one install of WinXP has only used PATA IDE to boot from--but!--it has been seeing and using SATA controller drivers to access the other two HDDs--so the IBM WinXP *knows* about the SATA controller--just hasn't booted from it!

Your other WinXP OS has only booted from a SATA controller--but!--again, it has been seeing and using the IBM PATA IDE to access that HDD.


Quote:
this installation disk is not the same as the one I used to install the WinXP on my IBM disk some 8 years ago.

You installed each of the WinXP OSs from the installation disc at the time of installation--so the installation process went through the steps that are part of the install that detects the type of HDD controllers present and sets up those drives for the rest of the OS installation.

It may turn out that because each of the WinXP OSs has seen both the PATA and SATA controllers--it may allow for booting from either one without a hiccup--you won't know until you try it.


Quote:
I am now inclined to think that the Guide needs to be rewritten and clarified. Page 14 should not depict such a rosy picture about Ghost and it should make reference to Page 13.

Actually, one should read page 13 first!--before reading page 14--there might be something important discussed before reaching that page 14!


Quote:
if one day they die, it is likely that I am not able to replace them with very similar disks even if I want to.

Knowing now that that could be an issue sometime in the future, it might be a worthwhile investment to have a possible spare HDD that can replace an existing HDD.† By the way, it doesn't have to be *identical*--it can be another brand, it can be larger or smaller--just needs to be an PATA IDE based HDD.


Quote:
What is the fundamental benefit of using Ghost as far as backing up the system

If your HDD dies, you can put a *similar* HDD onto the system and restore the image to the new HDD--often times within a mere 10's of minutes (depends on how larger the HDD is and how much data is stored in the image)--rather than installing the new HDD and installing everything from scratch!

If you install something that goes painfully wrong and it completely screws up the OS--restore your OS partition image and again in minutes--you right back where you started from.† (I always create a Ghost backup before I let the monthly Microsoft Update run--I want to be able to recover if a particular update does not go well!)

How about if you get a virus--restore your Ghost image and you're up and running again in minutes!

Read Rad's Ghost Guide--Read the Ghost User Guide--you will not find a section that states that the function of Ghost is to be able to transfer your OS form one set of hardware to another--you will actually find that it says that often times may not work!


Quote:
My friend suggested me instal WinXP from scratch to the Hitachi SATA, since I have the installation disk.† The purpose is to set up boot.ini, ntldr files, the mbr and a Windows partition. And then I do a partition-to-partition clone of my Windows partition from my IBM IDE to the Hitachi SATA.† (Then I don't need to worry about Linux.) Yes, it would overwrite the contents on the Hitachi but not the boot.ini, ntldr files, and mbr - hopefully. Would it work?

Only if your WinXP on the IBM PATA HDD has no problem accessing the OS when it's on the Hitachi SATA HDD in the first place without doing the installation procedure.† As soon as you restore an image file, or clone directly from the IBM to the Hitachi--all the files from the installation process on the Hitachi will be completely over-written and replaced by the files that were copied from the IBM HDD--that is precisely what Ghost does--so the boot.ini, the ntldr, and all the Windows files will be whatever was on the IBM and now copied over to the Hitachi!

Based on everything said so far--I'd re-format the Hitachi HDD so the† *bad blocks* are corrected.† Then clone the IBM to the Hitachi.† Then boot from the Hitachi and see what happens--if it boots okay--then you know there's not a *dis-similar hardware* problem.† Then you can clean up the the LILO boot issue and do whatever you want with the Linux partition.

By the way, you didn't mention--how do you control booting from the IBM or the WD--do you change the BIOS boot information or use a boot manager program?

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Nov 15th, 2009 at 10:37am
Sorry I forgot to mention that I use the BIOS menu to change the boot device.
I think one key of my friend's suggestion is that I do a partition-to-partition clone, not a disk-to-disk clone.  The former hopefully would not overwrite the boot.ini, ntldr files, mbr, whereas the latter would.  And if his suggestion works, then I do not need to worry about cleaning up the LILO and Linux partition.

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Nov 15th, 2009 at 1:12pm
@ Helen Monte


Quote:
I think one key of my friend's suggestion is that I do a partition-to-partition clone, not a disk-to-disk clone.† The former hopefully would not overwrite the boot.ini, ntldr files, mbr, whereas the latter would.

That's what I was trying to indicate will not work!

It's complicated--I suspect the LILO is probably located in what Ghost User Guides refer to as the *boot tract*.

So here's some defining information:†

The *boot tract* is the first 64 sectors of a HDD--the numbering starts at *absolute sector 0* and goes to sector 63.

The Master Boot Record (MBR) is usually referring to *absolute sector 0*--it has the the needed pointers to tell the system where to go to continue the boot process!† And, *absolute sector 0* has the Master Partition Table that tells the system how the HDD is partitioned.

The default behavior of Ghost 2003 and Ghost 8.xx is to only copy *absolute sector 0* and restoring only that sector to a new HDD--but, only if the HDD does not have a previous MBR!† (More on that in a minute!)† And the other sectors (#1 thru #63) in the *boot tract* are ignored and not copied or transferred.† I don't know if that's true of Ghost 11 or not--but, I have a strong suspicion that it is also true in Ghost 11, as well.† You can change that default behavior by using command line switches when you load Ghost, or by selecting different *Options* from within the Ghost program interface.

Most likely LILO has changed the MBR pointers in *absolute sector 0* to point to itself.† And most likely LILO program code is located somewhere in the *boot tract* sectors #1 thru #63.† Most likely it starts at the beginning of sector #1, but not knowing how big the LILO boot manager program is, I don't know how many additional sectors are involved!

As I previously said, I'm not a Linux expert and know even less about the various boot loaders.† But, I do know that we've had a number of posts where using Ghost *breaks* the boot loader's ability to work--the reason is what I've said above.

Now that I've said the above--I have to go back to my previous recommendation and say it's probably going to fail unless you do something different:


Quote:
Based on everything said so far--I'd re-format the Hitachi HDD so the† *bad blocks* are corrected.† Then clone the IBM to the Hitachi.† Then boot from the Hitachi and see what happens--if it boots okay--then you know there's not a *dis-similar hardware* problem.† Then you can clean up the the LILO boot issue and do whatever you want with the Linux partition.

Using the default settings for Ghost, this will likely fail--because the additional LILO program data in the sectors beyond *absolute sector 0* will not be transferred.† The MBR of *absolute sector 0* will still point to LILO, but the program will not exist any longer (unless you are restoring an image of the HDD back to the *same* HDD that already has the LILO program sitting in those sectors of the boot tract beyond the *absolute sector 0*.† Then the restore should still work!)† So, when you clone to the Hitachi HDD which presumably has never had the LILO boot manager on it, only that *absolute sector 0* will be transferred.


Quote:
The default behavior of Ghost 2003 and Ghost 8.xx is to only copy *absolute sector 0* and restoring only that sector to a new HDD--but, only if the HDD does not have a previous MBR!† (More on that in a minute!)

This is a *fuzzy grey area* of knowledge!† It's hard to know for sure what actually is happening and what is transferred and what is not because it takes a lot of attention to detail and you have to add some type of identifiable code or program behavior that you can look for to see if your MBR has been retained intact or if the program (such as Ghost) has somehow either altered the MBR code--or replaced it.

But, my experience is as follows:† if you format a HDD--whatever MBR that formatting tool is designed for places that MBR code on the HDD.† So for example if I use the *format* program from Win98 (not Win98se) to initially format a HDD, then the code in the MBR will be of the type used by the Win98 format program.

Now, I install WinXP on another HDD using the WinXP installation program that has its own format tool and it places a WinXP MBR on that HDD.†

If I now use Ghost to restore an image or do a direct clone, HDD to HDD, of the WinXP HDD that has the WinXP MBR code on it, and transfer it to the HDD that was originally formatted with the Win98 format tool--the MBR boot code will remain that of the original Win98 formatting--and not be overwritten with the WinXP code!

I know this to be true!† I've done it!† How did I know?† Win98 boot code can not access large HDDs and boot from boot code above an approx. 8 GB boundary!† I could not boot any of my Windows OS (WinXP or Win98!) that I restored to partitions that were beyond that 8 GB boundary of my new larger HDD that I was attempting to upgrade to!

There is a way to replace the MBR code--one uses the command for the format tool to *fix mbr*--now the format tool in use will place its MBR code in the MBR.† So, if I use the Win98se format tool, it will place its MBR code in place of the Win98 code.† Or, if I use the WinXP Recovery Console format tool, it will place the WinXP MBR code in place of that Win98 code.

Both the Win98se and WinXP code in the MBR is able to boot from boot code that is beyond that 8 GB boundary--and now I could boot any Windows OS from a partition beyond that boundary if I used either of those MBRs!

Also, experience with various formatting tools--if you re-format a given HDD, the MBR will remain that of the original formatting tool even if you are using a different formatting tool--you have to use the *fix MBR* command to change the existing MBR to the one of the current formatting tool you are using.

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Nov 15th, 2009 at 1:48pm
@ Helen Monte

So, ran out of room to continue in the last post!

(You really didn't want to know all that stuff anyway--did you† ;) !)

So what can you do?

If you want to do as quick a test as possible to see if your WinXP from the PATA IBM will be able to boot from your SATA Hitachi--this should get you there:

1.† Reformat the Hitachi to get rid of the *bad blocks*.


Quote:
As I said, I have a third Western Digital internal disk, I have a copy of WinXP in it too, and my Ghost is on it; so I boot up and run Ghost from my Western Digital.


2.† So, are you using *ghost32.exe* to run Ghost from within Windows from the WD HDD?† If so, and if Ghost 11 acts like the *ghost32.exe* from Ghost v8.xx, then after starting Ghost, you would go to the *Options* button on the opening program page.† Then select the *Image/Tape* tab.† †There select the *Image Boot* by placing the *dot* in that radio button.

You can read the description of that choice on the right side of that screen--it tells Ghost to copy and transfer the *entire boot tract* (sectors 0 thru 63), and it includes the *boot sector* (absolute sector 0).† So, now the LILO boot manager will also be transferred and your ability to boot will not be *broken*.

3.† Then do a *Local > Disk > to Disk* procedure selecting the IBM as the source and the Hitachi as the destination. (Yes, this will transfer both the WinXP partition and the Linux partition--this just a quick test to get to the point of knowing if there is a problem booting from a SATA HDD when previously the system had been booting from a PATA HDD.)

4.† Change the BIOS to boot from the Hitachi--are you able to boot?

Now, if you want to deal with the LILO and Linux partition:

1.† You have to uninstall the LILO boot manager.† I don't know how to do that!† You will have to look at your information you used to place that boot manager on your system in the first place, and find the appropriate instructions for getting rid of it!

The uninstall procedure should change the MBR back to the original so it points to the standard WinXP boot code and boot files.†

And, maybe it will also have the option to delete the Linux partition as well--I don't know!† If it doesn't--then after getting rid of the LILO boot loader, you can go into the WinXP Disk Management program and simply delete that Linux partition from there.

2.† If the LILO is uninstalled and you can now boot to WinXP on the IBM without it, you can simplify the Ghost procedure.† You shouldn't have to worry about the boot code for the LILO that's in the sectors beyond the first *absolute sector 0*.† So, you shouldn't have to change the Ghost default behavior mentioned above.

Use *Local > Disk > to Disk*.† Now that the Linux partition no longer exists, you should be given the option to make the destination HDD use its entire size for the partition coming from the source HDD.

3.† If you did not do the above first procedure to see if booting from the SATA Hitachi works--now is the time to see if it will work!† Change the BIOS boot order and see what happens!

Results?!

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Nov 16th, 2009 at 8:17pm
"are you using *ghost32.exe* to run Ghost from within Windows from the WD HDD?" yes.
It didn't work.
I used Windows to do a quick format of the Windows partition (Windows does not allow me to format the Linux partitions) and then do a local disk-to-disk clone with the image boot option.† Ghost gave me this same message twice: "Ghost has detected problems witha a Linux volume.† The volume was most probably not unmounted cleanly.† We recommend that you quite Ghost and correct the problem by running fsck on this volume.† Alternatively, you may also† continue normally." I don't know how to use fsck so I clicked Continue.† I do not know which Linux volume it referred to.† There are 3 linux partitions on my IBM disk and as a result of the previous cloning attempt, there are also 3 Linux partitions on the Hitachi disk.† After the cloning "successfully" completed, I tried to boot from the Hitachi disk but got half screen of 99s, as before.

The Ghosterr file reads:

*********************************
Date† †: Mon Nov 16 18:26:44 2009
Error Number: (652)
Message: Attempted to access an inconsistent Linux partition.
Operation aborted at user request.

Version: 11.0.2.1573 (Nov 14 2007, Build=1573)
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 (Build 2600)
Command line arguments:
Active Switches :
† †† † Spanning
† †† † AutoName
† †† † Image Boot
PathName† †† †† †† †:
DumpFile† †† †† †† †:
DumpPos† †† †† †† † : 0
FlagImplode† †† †† †: 0
FlagExplode† †† †† †: 0

Operation Details :
† Total size.........0
† MB copied..........0
† MB remaining.......0
† Percent complete...0%
† Speed..............0 MB/min
† Time elapsed.......0:00† †
† Time remaining.....0:00† †

Program Call Stack
AbortLog
Generic_Abort
CopyPartition
ProcessAllPartitions
CopyAllPartitions
CopyDiskToDisk
CopyMainline
AttemptOperation
sub_main
main

Call Stack
Address† †† †† †† †Frame† †† †† †† †† Logical Addr† †† †† †† †† Module
0x000000007c90e514 0x000000000012d5ac KiFastSystemCallRet+0x0000000000000000
0x000000000012d8ac 0x0000000000000003 0x0000:0x0000000000000000
End Call Stack

---

I have just tried the entire process again to no avail, with the same error message.
One thing interesting is that the sizes of the partitions on the IBM disk are scaled proportionally on the Hitachi disk.† That is, say the Windows partition on the IBM IDE is 10GB, the Windows partition on the Hitachi is 120 GB; and if the Linux partitions on the IBM are 2GB, 1GB, 4GB respctively, then the Linux partitions on the IBM are 24GB, 12GB, 48GB after the disk-to-disk cloning.† Is there a way to change this scaling?

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Nov 25th, 2009 at 12:11pm
@ Helen Monte


Quote:
It didn't work.

That's always a *bummer*!


Quote:
I used Windows to do a quick format of the Windows partition (Windows does not allow me to format the Linux partitions)

Disk Management should allow you to delete those partitions, but in theory when you use Ghost with a disk-to-disk procedure, the entire destination drive should be overwritten, and whatever formatting was present on the source drive should be transferred over.


Quote:
Ghost gave me this same message twice: "Ghost has detected problems witha a Linux volume.† The volume was most probably not unmounted cleanly.† We recommend that you quite Ghost and correct the problem by running fsck on this volume.† Alternatively, you may also† continue normally." I don't know how to use fsck so I clicked Continue.

Are you able to boot to the Linux OS--or are there problems with that OS?† *fsck* looks like it probably is *file system check*--most likely the equivalent to Windows *check disk* or *scan disk*.

Well, when there's an error during a cloning procedure--I'm always suspect as to the final integrity of the outcome at the end!


Quote:
There are 3 linux partitions on my IBM disk

I'm just not familiar enough with Linux to know how things are set up on that IBM disk--but that seems like a lot!† I've usually seen reference to 2 partitions for a Linux installation.


Quote:
After the cloning "successfully" completed, I tried to boot from the Hitachi disk but got half screen of 99s, as before.

At this point, with the Hitachi set as the boot drive, you could attempt to boot with your WinXP installation CD.† When you reach the point where it asks what you want to do, select going to the *Recovery Console*† Description of the Windows XP Recovery Console for advanced users.† You may have to enter an administrator user name and correct password to load the *Recovery Console*.† Once there, you could try running the command:† *fixmbr* and possibly *fixboot* to see if that will create a new MBR that allows for booting to the WinXP partition.

Note:† The WinXP installation CD has to have the needed HDD controller driver available in order to access the HDDs once the Recovery Console is loaded.† Not all possible drivers are included on the installation CD.† If your driver is not there, you have to supply it at the beginning of the loading of the installation files by pressing F6, and you have to use a floppy disk with the drivers on it so the installation files can capture the drivers and load them.† I would see if the installation CD has the needed drivers by attempting to load the Recovery Console.† Your Hitachi HDD will not show up if the drivers are not available.† Then you'll have to deal with that issue!

Because you have multiple partitions, you need to know which partition your WinXP *boot.ini* file points to.† Look at that file in your C: root directory--you can open it using Notepad--it's a text file.†

Which partition is listed--could be 1, 2, 3 or 4--I don't think 0 is used?† Here's mine as an example:


Quote:
[boot loader]
timeout=8
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /sos
C:\CMDCONS\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons


It might help to see what yours looks like--copy and paste here.


Quote:
One thing interesting is that the sizes of the partitions on the IBM disk are scaled proportionally on the Hitachi disk.† That is, say the Windows partition on the IBM IDE is 10GB, the Windows partition on the Hitachi is 120 GB; and if the Linux partitions on the IBM are 2GB, 1GB, 4GB respctively, then the Linux partitions on the IBM are 24GB, 12GB, 48GB after the disk-to-disk cloning.† Is there a way to change this scaling?

Yes.† When you reach the last screen where it shows you the new layout and sizes for the partitions, you should be able to use the mouse to go up to the horizontal layout and click on the boundary between partitions and *drag* them to a new value.† Or, I think you can click on the listed size to highlight that entry, and then type in a new size.† As long as the data will fit, Ghost should allow you to change that to whatever you want.

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Dec 8th, 2009 at 12:29am
Thanks for the reply.  I haven't checked this forum for a while. I think I'll give it another try tomorrow.  Here is my boot.ini:
[Boot Loader]
Timeout=5
Default=C:\$WIN_NT$.~BT\BOOTSECT.DAT
[Operating Systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
C:\$WIN_NT$.~BT\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows XP Professional Setup"

As you can see, my last line points to "setup" -- probbaly because this afternoon, before I read your last post, I tried to follow my friend's suggestion (in Reply #6) to install WinXP on the Hitachi first, and then ... Well, I inserted my XP installation disk in the DVD drive when I was running Windows XP on my IBM.  I guess WinXP thought that I was trying to upgrade it, so it seems that it was trying to overwrite the OS on my IBM.  It never asked me which drive I wanted to instal.  It was very scary and luckily I was able to exit.  But ever since, it asked me, during bootup, whether I want to run XP or run XP setup. It must be due to this line in boot.ini.  Great, I have another problem to fix.
Anyway, to answer to yr question:
As said in my original post, I am not able to boot up Linux.  And I installed it several years ago so I don't know why I have 3 Linux partitions.  Probably because 1 is for the OS, another is for data, yet another is for some swap thing.
In yr last paragraph, you said "When you reach the last screen" - last screen in WinXP Recovey Console?

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Dec 8th, 2009 at 1:06am
I tried to run Windows' chkdsk based on the instructions at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315265 "Manual steps to run Chkdsk from My Computer or Windows Explorer".  First of all, since it seems the error is in the Linux partition (see Reply #11) I doubt Windows' chkdsk would reveal anything.  Anyway, I have 2 Windows partitions in my IBM disk: C: (NTFS) and F:(FAT).  F is relatively small.  I ran chkdsk from My Computer.  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315265 says "If one or more of the files on the hard disk are open, you will receive the following message ..."  I never got one when I was checking on C although I was running WinXP and IE from C; instead, at the end of chkdsk it says "Windows is not able to complete the disk check"; it did not offer to perform the check at restart.  The check completed when I ran it on F but it did not report any result.  It simply says "The disk check is complete."
And since I am not able to boot up from Linux, I am not able to run anything, including the chkdsk-equivalent, from the Linux partitions.

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Dec 8th, 2009 at 10:57pm

NightOwl wrote on Nov 25th, 2009 at 12:11pm:
you could try running the command:*fixmbr* and possibly *fixboot* to see if that will create a new MBR that allows for booting to the WinXP partition.

Then it seems that I can simply do a partition-to-partition cloning of my Windows partition and then use these fixmbr and fixboot to write a Windows MBR on my new disk -- given that I do not want to keep my Linux partitions so there is no point of doing a disk-to-disk cloning.

====
I've just done that -- with fixboot, and it did not work.
I did a partition-to-partition cloning using ghost with the default setting, i.e. no "image boot".† That is, the Windows partition (with the OS on it) was copied from my IBM disk to the Hitachi SATA. As expected, the cloning succeeded without that "problem with Linux volume" complaint.
Then I used the WinXP installation disk to reach a menu where there is an option: "To repair a Windows XP installation using Recovery Console, press R."† I pressed R and the next screen showed 3 choices:
1. C:\WINDOWS
2. D:\WINDOWS
3. E:\WINDOWS
and asked me "Which Windows installation would you like to log onto?"† I picked 2.† It then asked for my admin password and then showed the command prompt D:\WINDOWS>
I issued the 'map' command to see the drive letters.
D:\WINDOWS> map
...
D: NTFS 610477MB \Device\Harddisk1\Partition1
...
So I know D is my new Hitachi SATA.† Then I issued "fixboot d"† The system responded:
The target partition is D:
Are you sure you want to write a new bootsector to the partition d?
I typed Y.
And it said "The new bootsector was successfully written"
Then I exited and restarted the computer and went to the BIOS menu, set the Hitachi SATA in all the three priorities in the Boot Device Priority menu, just to make sure the computer boots from it, with a Yes in the "Try Other Boot Devices" line. Well, it did not boot from Hitachi. Possibly because of that Yes in the "Try Other Boot Devices" line or somehow my change did not take effect, it booted from the WXP on the Western Digital disk.† (Recall that I have WXP on both my IBM and WD disks.† I can boot from either.)† From the MyComputer-Manage menu, I no longer see the Hitachi disk.† It mysteriously is gone. I went back to the BOIS menu and made sure all the three priorities in the Boot Device Priority menu are set to Hitachi and restarted the computer. This time it appears to really boot from Hitachi and sadly, those 99s appeared again.
I went to the WXP installation process again and it restarted my computer. I pressed Delete during its booting to look at the BOIS menu and saw that the Boot Device Priority is:
1st IBM
2nd Disabled
3rd Western Digital.
This must be set by the WXP installaton program.
I exited BIOS without any change and let the process continue to the point where I could choose the Recovery Console.
This time it gave me only two choices:
1. C:\WINDOWS
2. E:\WINDOWS
I picked E and typed 'map'.† This time it showed only the partitions in IBM and WD.† The Hitachi disappeared.† So I was not able to do anything (I was trying to try fixmbr) so I exited.
I rebooted and went to the BIOS menu to set the Boot Device.† Somewhat surprisingly, Hitachi also disappeared from the list of available device.† I rebooted again and this time the Hitachi appeared on the available device list.† So I tried to boot from it but those 99s appeared. So I rebooted from WD; and MyComputer-Manage showed the Hitachi disk along with IBM and WD.
Somehow the BIOS menu and MyComputer-Manage gave inconsistent results between two sessions.† But anyway, I cannot boot from Hitachi.



Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 10th, 2009 at 1:20pm
@ Helen Monte

Lots of new information!!!!† I will start back with your first *new* post----


Quote:
Here is my boot.ini:


[Boot Loader]
Timeout=5
Default=C:\$WIN_NT$.~BT\BOOTSECT.DAT
[Operating Systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
C:\$WIN_NT$.~BT\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows XP Professional Setup"



Quote:
ever since, it asked me, during bootup, whether I want to run XP or run XP setup. It must be due to this line in boot.ini.† Great, I have another problem to fix.

I think you can fix this fairly easily.† (Note:† You always see warnings to save a copy of your original *boot.ini* file before you start editing it--so you have a backup copy if you need to use it--I save is as *boot.ini.old*.)† So, open *boot.ini* using Notepad, just delete the *C:\$WIN_NT$.~BT\BOOTSECT.DAT* after the *Default=* (I have shown it above with the *strike-through* formatting).† Then copy and paste the *multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP* after the *Default=*.

You can then delete the *C:\$WIN_NT$.~BT\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows XP Professional Setup"* line--if you do, you will probably no longer get the boot menu at the beginning of the boot sequence--I think you have to have at least two entries after the *[Operating Systems]* item for the boot menu to show up.

So, final result should look like this:


Quote:
[Boot Loader]
Timeout=5
Default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
[Operating Systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn


Save that edited copy of the *boot.ini* file back to the C:\ root directory over-writing the original *boot.ini* file.

To finish the *clean-up*, you could then delete the sub-directory ($WIN_NT$.~BT\BOOTSECT.DAT) that Setup created with the *Bootsect.dat* information.


Quote:
As said in my original post, I am not able to boot up Linux.

You mentioned that there was an error message, but I didn't understand that to mean you couldn't boot to Linux.


Quote:
And I installed it several years ago so I don't know why I have 3 Linux partitions.† Probably because 1 is for the OS, another is for data, yet another is for some swap thing.

I'm going to try and get another member's attention--Mr. Magoo--he's our resident Linux guru and maybe he can help with how best to eliminate the bad Linux install.


Quote:
In yr last paragraph, you said "When you reach the last screen" - last screen in WinXP Recovey Console?

No.† I was responding to your question about how Ghost is scaling the sizes of the partitions that it is about to create when you are cloning from the source drive to the destination drive:


Quote:
One thing interesting is that the sizes of the partitions on the IBM disk are scaled proportionally on the Hitachi disk.† That is, say the Windows partition on the IBM IDE is 10GB, the Windows partition on the Hitachi is 120 GB; and if the Linux partitions on the IBM are 2GB, 1GB, 4GB respctively, then the Linux partitions on the IBM are 24GB, 12GB, 48GB after the disk-to-disk cloning.† Is there a way to change this scaling?

I responded:


Quote:
Yes.† When you reach the last screen (of the Ghost cloning setup) where it shows you the new layout and sizes for the partitions, you should be able to use the mouse to go up to the horizontal layout and click on the boundary between partitions and *drag* them to a new value.† Or, I think you can click on the listed size to highlight that entry, and then type in a new size.† As long as the data will fit, Ghost should allow you to change that to whatever you want.

So, I was referring to the Ghost program where it summarizes what it's about to do--not the WinXP Recovery Console.


Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 10th, 2009 at 2:46pm
@ Helen Monte

I don't think I'll comment on your reply #14.

On to reply #15:

So, we now have drives *disappearing and reappearing* from the BIOS and Windows Disk Management--Wow--too many confounding variables showing up here!

So, just a couple comments:


Quote:
Somehow the BIOS menu and MyComputer-Manage gave inconsistent results between two sessions.† But anyway, I cannot boot from Hitachi.

Reading through the steps you outlined, it looks like you never successfully ran the Recovery Console *FIXMBR* successfully on the cloned Hitachi HDD--and you have run at least one, and probably several Ghost procedures that may have transferred the MBR from the source IBM to the Hitachi--but, you probably have no current idea what MBR is in place on the Hitachi--is it one with the LILO boot loader--or one with just the Absolute 0 boot sector?!


Quote:
Then I used the WinXP installation disk to reach a menu where there is an option: "To repair a Windows XP installation using Recovery Console, press R."† I pressed R and the next screen showed 3 choices:
1. C:\WINDOWS
2. D:\WINDOWS
3. E:\WINDOWS
and asked me "Which Windows installation would you like to log onto?"† I picked 2.† It then asked for my admin password and then showed the command prompt D:\WINDOWS>
I issued the 'map' command to see the drive letters.
D:\WINDOWS> map
...
D: NTFS 610477MB \Device\Harddisk1\Partition1
...
So I know D is my new Hitachi SATA.

Well, seeing those different drive letters is disconcerting--I'd be happier if they all said *C:\* at the beginning because in theory these installations are on three different HDDs, and on three primary partitions--why are there different drive letters reported?† Presumably to differential one installation from another!† However, when you boot from each, I bet they all report as being drive C:\!† But, it looks like you were able to determine to your satisfaction which was which.† But.....


Quote:
I exited BIOS without any change and let the process continue to the point where I could choose the Recovery Console.
This time it gave me only two choices:
1. C:\WINDOWS
2. E:\WINDOWS

How is it that the Recovery Console, which loads *anew* each time you boot and load it--seems to *remember* the drive letters it assigned previously to the various Windows installations it had found.† If it only finds two installations this time--shouldn't the drive letter assigned be the next available--i.e. D:\ instead of the E:\ that your report above?


Quote:
I went to the WXP installation process again and it restarted my computer. I pressed Delete during its booting to look at the BOIS menu and saw that the Boot Device Priority is:
1st IBM
2nd Disabled
3rd Western Digital.
This must be set by the WXP installaton program.

I doubt the WinXP installation program will access and change anything that is set in the BIOS.† You could try the following--reboot, enter the BIOS, set all boot priority lines to the Hitachi (or whichever of the HDDs you choose), save and exit the BIOS.† Reboot and again enter the BIOS--has the settings remained the same as you set them--or are they different?† I suspect it's the BIOS that will not let all three settings be the same!

Well, as I said before *too many confounding variables showing up here*--but one observation--if the WinXP installation CD boots successfully without having to install *additional* drivers in order to access the attached SATA HDDs (i.e. WD and Hitachi), and *see* the Windows installations on each--then I doubt there should be an issue regarding being able to boot to WinXP from the Hitachi--I have to suspect some other variable that has not been accounted for is causing the problem!

Because you are running the Windows based *ghost32.exe* from an active Windows partition--and cloning a Windows OS to another HDD, there's another variable that may need to be checked out--is the new partition on the Hitachi set to *active* as part of the cloning process--or does Ghost set its status as *none* or *hidden*?† We might have to look at that as well!

Time to simplify!† See next post!

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 10th, 2009 at 3:14pm
@ Helen Monte


Quote:
given that I do not want to keep my Linux partitions

Let's get ride of the Linux variable!† Did some searching:

How to Remove Linux Boot Loader From Startup After Deleting Linux Partition on a Dual-Boot System?

How to Remove the Linux LILO Boot Manager

Can you use the BIOS to make your other two HDDs *disappear* that you are not working on at the moment?† I.e. can you go into the BIOS and disable those HDDs so they are not shown as active.† That way, you will be sure which HDD you are working on--but it did seem that you were able to select the correct HDD previously--but just a thought.

Or, another suggestion is to open the case and pull the communication cables out of the drives that are not involved so as to make sure you don't select the wrong drive.

Follow the instructions for removing Linux from the IBM HDD:


Quote:
1. First you'll need to boot using Windows setup CD. You can use Windows 98 Setup CD or Windows 2000, XP, 2003† CD or Windows Vista, Server 2008 DVD.

B. Using Windows 2000, XP, 2003 CD:

Enter into "Recovery Console" by pressing "R", select your Windows installation and enter administrator password. Now provide following command:

† † fixmbr

Press "Y" to confirm and type Exit to exit from recovery console.

Exit from Command prompt and restart your system.

2. The above commands will remove the Linux boot loader from startup and you'll be able to directly boot into Windows.

3. If you have not deleted Linux partitions, then you can delete them using "Disk Manager" tool in Windows.


Re-enable the HDDs in the BIOS if you have disabled them, and then test booting from the IBM--the Linux boot loader should be gone--and you should boot directly into WinXP.† Use Disk Management to delete the 3 Linux partitions--this space should end up as *unallocated* space on the HDD.

Now, boot to your WD Windows version.† Start *ghost32.exe*, and select *Local > Disk > To Disk*, select the IBM as source, and the Hitachi as the destination.† If the cloning is successful, close down Windows and re-boot.

Enter the BIOS and set the Hitachi as 1st boot device--and set the other 2 lines to *disable*.† Also, you could set the other two HDDs to *disable* (if this option is available) so only the Hitachi is available during this test.

Results?

If this outlined procedure doesn't work, then we will want to see what the *status* of the Hitachi partition is--boot back into one of the other Windows installations and we will proceed.


Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Dec 10th, 2009 at 6:25pm

NightOwl wrote on Dec 10th, 2009 at 2:46pm:
If it only finds two installations this time--shouldn't the drive letter assigned be the next available--i.e. D:\ instead of the E:\ that your report above?

I don't know whether it should or should not. That was what showed up on my screen.  I am positive because I used my digital camera to capture all these screen shots for my record.

NightOwl wrote on Dec 10th, 2009 at 2:46pm:
Reboot and again enter the BIOS--has the settings remained the same as you set them--or are they different?  I suspect it's the BIOS that will not let all three settings be the same!

My BIOS does allow all three settings be the same.

NightOwl wrote on Dec 10th, 2009 at 2:46pm:
it looks like you never successfully ran the Recovery Console *FIXMBR* successfully on the cloned Hitachi HDD

I tried fixmbr yesterday morning:
> fixmbr \Device\Harddisk1\Partition1
Recovery Console responded: "
*** CAUTION ***
This computer appears to have a non-standard or invalid boot record.
FIXMBR may damage your partition tables if you proceed. This could cause all the partitions on the current hard disk to become inaccessible.  If you are not having problems accessing your drive, do not continue.  Are you sure you want to write a new MBR?"
I typed "y".
It responded: "The new master boot record has been successfully written"
I exited Console and booted WXP from the IBM disk and MyComputer shows the Hitachi disk as "Local Disk (H:)" -- it renamed it from "Hitachi SATA" which I named it before the fixmbr.  I tried to explore this "local disk" and Windows responded : "The disk in drive H is not formatted.  Do you want to format it now?"  I said no.  MyComputer-Manage-DiskManagemnet shows Drive H having one partition and Healthy (Active).  So I assume that the so-called partition table must have been damaged although the data was probably still there.
So I did a partition-to-partition clone using ghost to clone the Windows partition on IBM to Hitachi.  It succeeded as expected. 
I set all three boot settings to Hitachi in the BIOS menu and tried to boot from the Hitachi.  It still gave me the 99s.
Well, I gave up and took my computer to a local independent shop for them to try.  I told him everything I did.  The guy charged me $85 if he is able to "fix" it, no charge if he canot "fix" it.  He said he would let me know by tomorrow.  One way or the other, I will let you know the outcome here.

NightOwl wrote on Dec 10th, 2009 at 2:46pm:
is the new partition on the Hitachi set to *active* as part of the cloning process--or does Ghost set its status as *none* or *hidden*?

How can I check that in ghost?  I did not change any default setting in ghost.

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 10th, 2009 at 9:42pm
@ Helen Monte


Quote:
I don't know whether it should or should not. That was what showed up on my screen.† I am positive because I used my digital camera to capture all these screen shots for my record.

Didn't mean to make it sound like I was questioning your reported results--mostly a *rhetorical question*--wondering how that can be!


Quote:
My BIOS does allow all three settings be the same.

So, you can set all three to say the Hitachi, save the setting, and then return to the BIOS and the setting remains pointing the just the Hitachi in all three positions--another *rhetorical question*--how did this happen as you reported:


Quote:
I went to the WXP installation process again and it restarted my computer. I pressed Delete during its booting to look at the BOIS menu and saw that the Boot Device Priority is:
1st IBM
2nd Disabled
3rd Western Digital

Another *mystery*!


Quote:
I tried fixmbr yesterday morning:
> fixmbr \Device\Harddisk1\Partition1

Courious report!† The MBR might be on *Harddisk1*, but it is not on *Partition1*!† The MBR is not on or within any partition.† I've not seen that message before--but, I don't have two or three HDDs with Windows installed--so maybe the Recovery Console's response message is different under your circumstances.

So, I'm not sure--did you do the *fixmbr* on the IBM HDD where the Linux install is located--or did you do the *fixmbr* on your Hitachi HDD?† In my post above where I said this:


Quote:
Follow the instructions for removing Linux from the IBM HDD:

I was suggesting that you do the *fixmbr* on the IBM--not the Hitachi.

But, you reported this:


Quote:
I exited Console and booted WXP from the IBM disk and MyComputer shows the Hitachi disk as "Local Disk (H:)" -- it renamed it from "Hitachi SATA" which I named it before the fixmbr.

So, when you booted from the IBM disk, was the Linux boot loader gone?† No reference to booting to either Linux or WinXP?† Doing *fixmbr* on the IBM disk should not have had any effect on the name of the Hitachi!† Another mystery!!!


Quote:
I tried to explore this "local disk" and Windows responded : "The disk in drive H is not formatted.† Do you want to format it now?"† I said no.† MyComputer-Manage-DiskManagemnet shows Drive H having one partition and Healthy (Active).† So I assume that the so-called partition table must have been damaged although the data was probably still there.

Your Disk Management shows that message--*Healthy (Active)*--my WinXP Disk Management only shows the *Healthy*--there are other messages such as (Unknown Partition), (Page File), (System)--but no (Active)!


Quote:
So I did a partition-to-partition clone using ghost to clone the Windows partition on IBM to Hitachi.† It succeeded as expected.
I set all three boot settings to Hitachi in the BIOS menu and tried to boot from the Hitachi.† It still gave me the 99s.


Did you re-boot to the WD Windows to do this?† Or, did you run Ghost from the IBM Windows?

If you did a *Local > Partition > To Partition*, then the MBR on the Hitachi was not the MBR from the IBM--unless you had transferred the MBR doing a *Local > Disk > To Disk* clone previously!† But, had you also done a disk-to-disk clone using Ghosts option to transfer the whole boot tract (the *-ib* image boot switch)--which would have been the MBR with the Linux boot loader!?


Quote:
How can I check that in ghost?† I did not change any default setting in ghost.

Can't check it in Ghost!† And there are no settings in Ghost to control this.† Ghost has a companion program that comes with your Ghost installation program--*gdisk.exe* for DOS Ghost and *gdisk32.exe* for Windows based Ghost.† That is Ghost's partitioning program--it runs from the *command line*, no GUI user interface.

Or, you can use other MBR tools to show the status of the different partitions--PartitionMagic, MBRWizard - The MBR Management Utility, MBRtool, MBR Tools from *The Starman*, and probably others....



Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by MrMagoo on Dec 11th, 2009 at 10:25am
Ok, Nightowl asked me to stop by to led my Linux experience.  I haven't read the entire thread in detail and just skimming it I'm a little confused about what OS's you have where.  I think I understand that you have Windows and Linux both on the IBM drive and then 2 other drives besides.

If you want to get rid of Linux, you have a few options.  Rad went through a similar process removing Grub and Linux from his system.  It is detailed in a thread here: http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1238113195/0

The same types of things should work for you.  Rad used Partition Work BING and said it went very smooth.  You can also use WinXP install CD (has to  be a Microsoft disk, not an OEM version.)

Once you get the MRB and boot loader taken care of, you can reclaim the partition. 

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Dec 11th, 2009 at 5:55pm

Quote:
Quote:
I tried fixmbr yesterday morning:
> fixmbr \Device\Harddisk1\Partition1

Courious report! The MBR might be on *Harddisk1*, but it is not on *Partition1*! The MBR is not on or within any partition. I've not seen that message before--but, I don't have two or three HDDs with Windows installed--so maybe the Recovery Console's response message is different under your circumstances.


I really don't know.  "help fixmbr" says that fixmbr takes a device name as an argument.  I did not know and did not have time to find out what a device name is exactly.  So I typed the whole thing "\Device\Harddisk1\Partition1" and Windows took it!


Quote:
Quote:
So, I'm not sure--did you do the *fixmbr* on the IBM HDD where the Linux install is located--or did you do the *fixmbr* on your Hitachi HDD?

I believe, and I am led by how the Recovery Console behaved to believe, that I did the fixmbr on the Hitachi disk.
First, the Recovery Console asked me to choose a drive to logon, I selected the Hitachi drive.  And I issued the fixmbr command on "\Device\Harddisk1\Partition1", which according to the output of the "map" command, refers to the Hitachi Windows partition.  Perhaps I should have done the fixmbr on "\Device\Harddisk1" instead, in that case Microsoft did a poor job by failing to reject my fixmbr on "\Device\Harddisk1\Partition1".

Quote:
Quote:
I was suggesting that you do the *fixmbr* on the IBM--not the Hitachi.

Then I misunderstood you.  But, conceptually speaking, my approach should work -- put a valid Windows MBR on the Hitachi disk, and then clone the Windows partition from IBM to Hitachi. And it is safer than what you suggested in the sense that I do not need to mess with my IBM disk.

Anyway, I called the shop this afternoon and the guy said he removed Linux and cloned my IBM's Windows partition onto his 160GB hard disk and can boot from there.  He is now cloning his own 160GB hard disk to my Hitachi and hopefully I can get it back next Monday.

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 12th, 2009 at 12:41am
@ Helen Monte


Quote:
I called the shop this afternoon and the guy said he removed Linux and cloned my IBM's Windows partition onto his 160GB hard disk and can boot from there

Looks like the Tech is following my advise to *simplify* by removing the Linux boot loader from the IBM.

If he has a 160 GB SATA in place of the Hitachi that's booting okay, I'd offer the Tech an extra $100 for his 160 HDD and leave the Hitachi at the repair shop--but, that's just me!

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Dec 15th, 2009 at 9:22pm
I got my Hitachi disk back last night.† The technician said he spent a lot of time on it.† He tried many different things including different versions of Ghost and he did not remember exactly the sequence of the steps he took to make it work.† He just remembered that he used a Windows XP installation disk which has an option to repair Windows to somehow repair WXP, which somehow "disabled" the accessibility to the Linux partitions and probably overwrote the MBR or booting sequence or whatever.† And then he did (and probably re-did and re-did) the cloning.† He said he did not do it on my IBM disk but rather on his own 160 GB disk.† He believed the problem should be related to (the) Linux (dual-booter).†
Anyway, I can now boot using either the IBM or the Hitachi disk but when I boot with Hitachi, my Internet Explorer does not work.† It is the "The requested lokup key was not found in my active activation context" problem which I did some research on the Internet and people suggested one to re-instal IE, which I am planning to do later.
And while I am on WXP, booted from IBM, MyComputer-Manage-DiskManagement shows my IBM disk as "Healthy(System)", my Western Digital as "Healthy (Page File)", and my Hitachi as "Healthy(Active)". Because my WesternDigital disk is almost full, just a quick question: how do I put the page file on Hitachi rather than WD?

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Helen Monte on Dec 15th, 2009 at 9:34pm

Quote:
Quote:
is the new partition on the Hitachi set to *active* as part of the cloning process--or does Ghost set its status as *none* or *hidden*?
How can I check that in ghost? I did not change any default setting in ghost.
Can't check it in Ghost! And there are no settings in Ghost to control this. Ghost has a companion program that comes with your Ghost installation program--*gdisk.exe* for DOS Ghost and *gdisk32.exe* for Windows based Ghost. That is Ghost's partitioning program--it runs from the *command line*, no GUI user interface.

Just for the record and for future reference, if ghost has no setting to set the active status of a partition, then what did you mean by asking "is the new partition on the Hitachi set to *active* as part of the cloning process--or does Ghost set its status as *none* or *hidden*?" ?  I assume that the cloning process is done by Ghost itself, not its companion program.

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Rad on Dec 16th, 2009 at 12:04am
Just checking in. Interesting thread. I see you're in good hands with NightOwl.

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 16th, 2009 at 10:06am
@ Helen Monte


Quote:
He just remembered that he used a Windows XP installation disk which has an option to repair Windows to somehow repair WXP, which somehow "disabled" the accessibility to the Linux partitions and probably overwrote the MBR or booting sequence or whatever.

That's a *Repair Installation*--rather than selecting *R* to repair WinXP through the Recovery Console--you can choose a Repair Install of Windows through the install branch of the installation disc--it basically places all the original WinXP OS files from the installation disc onto the current OS--it also goes through the *discovery* process of determining what the different hardware is present and what drivers must be put in place to access and use the current hardware found.†

It removes all the Windows updates from the OS that you are installing over.† If you had updated from Internet Explorer 6.x that is installed initially by the WinXP installation, say to IE 7--that gets wiped out and you are back to the IE 6--but, it leaves all the other changes intact such as any programs you have installed since the original installation of WinXP.

I used that technique to transfer my OS from a failing motherboard based on the AMD CPU that used a HighPoint RAID HDD controller to my current system that's based on a Pentium CPU and a Promise RAID HDD controller.† Actually work out great!†

All my current programs and setting came over untouched--had to do 90 plus Windows Updates and had to Upgrade again to IE 7 from IE 6.† My biggest challenge was figuring out how to add the Promise RAID HDD controller drivers using the *F6* during initial boot of the WinXP installation CD where you add drivers that are not included on the Installation CD--the instructions that came with the new system where *wrong*--so I kept getting an error saying that the drivers where not found and/or could not be installed!† Once I cleared that up--everything else when smoothly.

I was actually going to recommend that to you if we determined that you could not access that Hitachi HDD on the SATA controller, being as the cloned OS was coming from the PATA IBM HDD--because that procedure would have gone through that *discovery* sequence where the installation routine looks at what drivers are needed to access the attached HDDs--but, that never appeared to be the problem--something else appeared to be interfering with the boot process from the Hitachi!


Quote:
He said he did not do it on my IBM disk but rather on his own 160 GB disk.

It's always good to experiment on a *spare* HDD when doing things and you are in unfamiliar territory--you have a good Tech using good techniques!


Quote:
I can now boot using either the IBM or the Hitachi disk but when I boot with Hitachi, my Internet Explorer does not work.† It is the "The requested lokup key was not found in my active activation context"

Curiosity question--did you have to do any Windows updates on the now bootable Hitachi (maybe the Tech already did that!)?  And check to see if the IE version is the same on the Hitachi as on the IBM!† If it's IE 6 or IE 7--I'd recommend updating to IE 8--see if that solves the problem!


Quote:
Because my WesternDigital disk is almost full, just a quick question: how do I put the page file on Hitachi rather than WD?

In WinXP, go to My Computer, right click on it, and then select *Properties*.† The select the *Advanced* tab, then the *Settings* button under *Performance*.† Then select the *Advanced* tab, and then the *Change* button for *Virtual memory*.

The dialog box will show all the partitions on all the drives that the OS has access to.† You can then select each partition and select whether it can be used for some or all the page file.† If you do not want certain partitions to be used for the page file, then click on the radio button so it has a *dot* where it says *No paging file*, and then press the *Set* button.† Do that for each partition.† You can select to either use a *Custom* setting, or you can elect to let Windows control the page file size (i.e. *System managed size*)--probably letting Windows set the size is best unless you know what and why you're setting *Custom* sizes!† Windows default setting usually is to set aside 1.5 times the amount of installed RAM.

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 16th, 2009 at 10:53am
@ Helen Monte


Quote:
Just for the record and for future reference, if ghost has no setting to set the active status of a partition, then what did you mean by asking "is the new partition on the Hitachi set to *active* as part of the cloning process--or does Ghost set its status as *none* or *hidden*?" ?

This is a *murky* area--depends on what cloning procedure has been done--and what version of Ghost has been used.†

Older versions of Ghost will set a cloned partition *active* if you do a *whole disc > to whole disc* procedure.† But, it will not change the partition status if you use a *partition to partition* procedure.† But, somewhere along the line, the programing of Ghost changed because if you cloned a *whole disk* to another disk, and both were on the same machine and both had the identical disk ID and structure, then certain systems (able to boot from more than one HDD by changing the BIOS)--when you re-boot after the cloning (and you have left both HDDs attached) you would get an identity crisis where the two *active* partitions would cause a *nervous* breakdown and corruption of the Registry of the system you have booted from.† So, Ghost was re-programed to not make the cloned HDD's OS partition *active*.† Later, Ghost was reprogrammed so to erase the Disk ID which then forced the OS to re-initialize the drive letter assignments.† And, it was found that it was a good *safety measure* to remove (disconnect) one of the cloned drives during the first re-boot to make sure there was no identity crisis.† These steps seemed to resolve the identity crisis--but, if you use these newer Ghost versions on Vista or Win7--without modifications this erasing of the disk ID will break Vista's and Win7's ability to boot properly!† (For every action--there's an alternate effect on something else!)†

DOS Ghost and the *ghost32.exe* version do not have within their user interface an option to select whether to make a partition *active* or not, and *hidden* or not!† And there is no command line switch for controlling those settings.† Ghost does what's it's programed to do--and the user has no control!

I've not used *ghost32.exe* with a setup such as yours, and you have done any number of previous cloning attempts--so it was difficult to know what might be the status of that Hitachi HDD--which is why I asked about the status!


Quote:
I assume that the cloning process is done by Ghost itself, not its companion program.

Yes, Ghost does the cloning process and it creates (and can modify the sizes) of partitions on the fly as it clones--but if you want to set the settings regarding *active/not active* and *hidden/not hidden*, then you do have to use the companion *gdisk.exe* in DOS or *gdisk32.exe* from within Windows--or one of the Master Boot Record (MBR) tools I mentioned in my reply # 20 above.

If you use just the *list* or *status* commands with these various tools, you will not cause any changes to the MBR--you will just get the readout of the current settings.† It's when you attempt to make any changes that you have to be very sure of what you are doing before proceeding--the results can be *final* and *fatal* if you do it wrong--but that's were a backup Ghost image file can save your bacon!† I never use those MBR tools without knowing I have a current backup to restore from if something goes wrong!

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 27th, 2009 at 4:24pm
@ Helen Monte


Quote:
Because my WesternDigital disk is almost full, just a quick question: how do I put the page file on Hitachi rather than WD?

In another thread on the forum here, Brian reminded me of this web site that discusses various issues on managing the *page file*--looks like it has been updated since the last time I reviewed it--seems to be less supportive of the idea of changing the location of WinXP's page file--or at least more supportive of leaving a portion of the page file on the OS partition:† Virtual Memory in Windows XP

Title: Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Post by Brian on Dec 27th, 2009 at 5:33pm
@ NightOwl

I found this today...

http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2008/11/17/3155406.aspx

See "How Big Should I Make the Paging File?"

I was amused by...


Quote:
That explains why the peak commit on my 8GB 64-bit system thatís visible in one of the screenshots is 32GB. I guess whoever wrote that code got their guidance from one of those magazines I mentioned!



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