I have just bought a new 500GB External Hard Disk (Disk 3), and have partitioned it as:  157GB (I:\Prime), 160GB (M:\Extended with 1 Logical) + and 160GB (N:\Prime). Please see attached (This shows pictorial view of the 2 Internal Disks and the 1 External Disk,  using Partition Magic).
I have imaged, with Ghost 14, the 3 Partitions of Disk 1:  C:\,D:\, and H:\., the other Partition  G:\, in Disk 1 and K:\& L:\ in Disk2,  are used for Ghost Images and other BUs. 
The intention is to: first, delete Partition I:\ (Prime), converting this Partition’s space to “Unallocated”.  Then to make two partitions a Primary, and a Extended partition – 50GB Primary and a 100GB Extended partition, (4 Primaries are allowed per Disk!), using Partition Magic.  Next, make two Logical partitions in this Extended Partition of say, about 50GB each, leaving the Primary as a 50GB partition.  (This should enable a future restoration of the image of C:\, which has the OS.  (the “Rules” are that the Partition with the OS, which has the MBR, must be placed in a partition with “Unallocated” space, and further, that the Ghost Image of which has never “seen” a drive letter of Partition One in Disk 3, so that the MBR will not have this knowledge, when restored!  – acknowledgement, and thanks, to Brian!). 
Next, is to restore the Images of D:\ and H:\ into these two Logical Partitions as above, which in due course could be changed to more up-to-date Images. 
Periodically one would Ghost Images of all HD 1’s Partitions and save them in M:\ partition, but Disk3 would always be disconnected thereafter.  Next set the BIOS to boot up from Disk 3, before Disk 1, but after the DVD/CD Drive.
Then, the reasoning would be, that in the event that there is a major problem, one  could then reconnect Disk 3, and restore the latest Ghost Image available of C:\ (Residing in Disk 1, Disk 2 or even Disk 3), into the external Disk 3’s “Unallocated” space by using the SRD making and then making this partition  the Active Partition. 
Next,  Remove the SRD from the computer, and then reboot it, this time, it should reboot into Disk 3!  One could then restore the latest Images of D:\ and H:\, from the Images in G:\, K:\ or L:\ or even M:\, into the two Logical Partitions in Disk3.   
This procedure sounds complicated, but really should be very easy to do!  There would then be no initial reason to even open up the computer!
The thinking may have several flaws, but please can someone comment on this, or advise of any changes necessary, and hopefully it will be you, Brian (the most highly esteemed guru in the Ghosting Forum, in my opinion!) 

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@ tiff07


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can someone comment on this

Seem like it should be doable. 

I assume your system is designed to boot from an external USB drive--and you can tell the BIOS which HDD to use for booting!  I've seen people comment that a USB external drive is too slow to boot and use Windows efficiently--but, apparently it can be done.

Thanks for your comments, NightOwl.  Please see attached is a photo (not a very good one, but I could not make a screen print!) of the BIOS view – it shows that the 500GB drive and it “looks like” one can move this up the Hard Drive Order! (I haven’t done this yet as I was hoping for advice if what I propose will work first!) As the USB drives are all listed (the other two drives are Flash Drives), I presume that they will! :-/
While replying to your comment I will make two changes to my original post for more clarity:
1.  In the paragraph starting  “The intention is to first. . . “, please add - then delete the first 50GB Primary changing it back to,“Unallocated” ,  also
2.  Please replace the penultimate paragraph with:
Then, the reasoning would be, that in the event that there is a major problem, one  could reconnect Disk 3, and restore the latest Ghost Image available of C:\ (Residing in Disk 1, Disk 2 or even Disk 3), into the external Disk 3’s “Unallocated” space by using the SRD, with a tick in the "Set drive active" (for booting OS).

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Bruce,

You brain has been in overdrive for this procedure. Sounds good, BUT, forget booting WinXP from a USB external HD. Read this page to see why you don't want to try that.

http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176

Brian,
Thanks for your comment - and the hyperlink to look at.  That is very scary! 
I guess I can rest my brain again, and just forget about my “rapid” reinstall, although it MAY have been possible, it is certainly is only for the real experts to attempt with the huge modifications required!  I will stick to the procedure that you previously suggested,  i.e. to use Disk2, still waiting, with the “Unallocated” space! 
It is a bit confusing, however, to note that in my BIOS (previously attached) it shows that the USB booting can be Enabled!  Is this therefore incorrect? 
By the way, Brian, please confirm for me that my logic of partitioning the External Disk3 will work?  Even though I won’t now go the full distance, I would still like to use the 500GB Drive, (which is also physically the same, as the two 160GB drives), in place of Disk1, INSIDE the computer, and then to use that Disk1 in the external housing for storage of Ghost Images.  Hence wanting to “set-up” the first 160GB portion of the 500GB drive, as a replica of Disk1, which will include the partitions C:\, D:\ H:\.   Thanks again Brian, your comments they are always much appreciated.      

Bruce,

Booting a USB device refers to flash drives, SD cards etc. You can boot a DOS OS on a USB HD, but not a WinXP OS.

You could use your 500 GB HD as an internal HD but make sure you restore the WinXP image when the HD is mounted internally. Don't restore a WinXP image to the 500 GB HD while it is in the USB enclosure as the OS may not boot.

This page may be of interest for the future....

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dd535816.aspx

Brian,
Thanks for the explanation re the bootable USBs, but please, just one more piece of advice, if you don’t mind!  Briefly will this be in order?:
•      Delete the partition I:\(Primary), which will convert this partition’s space (160GB) all to “Unallocated” space.
•      Make a 100GB Extended partition, in this 160GB “Unallocated” space, using PM.
•      Make two Logical partitions in this Extended Partition, of say, about 50GB each.
•      Leave the balance, approx 50MB, as “Unallocated”
•      Physically then swop Disk1 with Disk3.
•      When “Disk3” (now replacing Disk1) is in the computer, restore an Image of C:\ partition, to this “Unallocated” space.
•      Former Disk1, will now be in external housing, and used for BU’s of Ghost Images.
Are there any changes necessary?  If not, many thanks again, Brian!

Bruce,

You already have an extended partition on your external HD so you can't have another. Also, you can't restore an image of an OS to unallocated space inside an extended partition and expect it to boot without using a boot manager. The unallocated space has to be outside the extended partition. Having a partition structure similar to Disk 2 would be fine.

Brian
A final test for your patience!
Thanks for pointing out the partitioning limitations in your last post!  I haven’t used PM much - that is until today!  Attached is my revised partitioning of Disk 3, and when required I will remove Disk 1 and replace it with this Disk 3.  I will then use the SRD to restore an up-to-date Ghost Image of the C:\ partition,  into the “Unallocated space”, of Disk 3, which is now outside the extended partition, so hopefully it will be able to boot up with no problems!  Thanks Brian, your advice is all very much appreciated.     :)

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Bruce,

That is excellent.

@ tiff07

I looked at the link Brian gave above in reply #3:  http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176

I think Brian might be trying to scare you off!  That tutorial is mostly about how to modify the WinXP installation CD so it can be used to install WinXP onto a USB HDD (and maybe a large sized flash drive).  The important take away message from that tutorial is that WinXP can in fact boot from an external USB HDD!!!!

But, it doesn't address whether you can use an imaging program to transfer an already installed working OS from an internal HDD to an external USB HDD and have it work! 

I don't have a system that will allow for booting from an external USB device, so I can't test it--but if the BIOS supports booting from an external USB HDD, then I don't see why a image of a working WinXP OS that is restored to a USB HDD couldn't work--you have to make the appropriate selection(s) when restoring to make sure you tell Ghost to make the restored image bootable, the partition active, etc. ... as needed--and let the ability of the BIOS allow for booting from that USB HDD.

If you have the necessary USB HDD and a system that allows for selecting it for booting--why not experiment a little to see what works--or, what problems or error message(s) might show up!  Nothing ventured....nothing gained!!!

Hi Nightowl!  Sorry, I had assumed that this subject was closed, after Brian's last post, but saw this post of yours dated 11th Dec., only today!
Thank you! Your comment was:-
"The important take away message from that tutorial is that WinXP can in fact boot from an external USB HDD!!!!"
I see that Brian has not responded and maybe he can throw more light on the subject, than I can as he is far more knowledgeable than me!  Besides experimental work scars me a bit.   I have enough to contend with just ensuring my Ghost Images save me from disaster without making disasters actually happen!   I hope Brian sees this as I will be very interested in his remarks too.  (A pity that I was not notified of this reply, although I ticked the box below, maybe Brian also has not seen it!)

Followup on my last post re:
"The important take away message from that tutorial is that WinXP can in fact boot from an external USB HDD!!!! - Nightowl"
If you have seen my recent post re "Disfunctional USBs....."I mentioned that I have changed my previous motherboard, to a Gigabyte GA-G631M, which specifies boot order available devices as: Floppy,LS120,Hard Drive,CDROM,ZIP,USB-FDD,
USB-ZIP,USB-CDROM,USB-HDD, and LAN.
So maybe that USB connected external 500GB drive, could have a previous Ghost Image of the C:\ drive, (which has the XP OS on it) restored to it's unallocated space by the SRD, before it is actually required to boot up, which then may be possible!  (The boot order in the BIOS may also need to be changed, for USB booting just after the CDROM). 
But suggest that we first wait for Brian's comments, which will most interesting! 
Enjoy and have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, everyone! 

I've read so many negative comments about booting WinXP from a USB external HD that I've taken little interest. But I just tried NightOwl's challenge. A WinXP image was restored to an external HD and the partition was set active. I tried to boot the HD as a USB device and then tried to boot using a menu in BING. Each started off promising (for a few seconds) in that the WinXP splash screen appeared and then the computer restarted. No luck.

Merry Xmas everyone.

I found these comments about running WinXP from a USB external HD...


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>> Have you booted a Windows OS from a USB rotational hard drive using your method? Yes, but Windows XP and Windows 2000 (not sure about Vista and Windows 7) requires registry hacks (about three pages worth) to stop Windows from resetting the USB ports while it boots. Otherwise Windows hangs right in the middle of booting

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> Bill, how "fast" is WinXP when you boot it from a USB external HD? How fast? You mean how slow, right? <sigh> As USB speeds are about the same as DVD 12x performance tests, from what I recall. And if your Windows now boots in one minute. You can expect it to take 6 or more minutes on USB. Using eSATA instead of USB2, you gain all of your speed back. Plus you don't have to hack your OS. Laptop users with either a CardBus or an ExpressCard slot, can purchase eSATA cards. Although some laptops are already coming with eSATA ports. <grin>

@ Brian


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But I just tried NightOwl's challenge.

Thanks for taking the time to test that out!


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I tried to boot the HD as a USB device and then tried to boot using a menu in BING. Each started off promising (for a few seconds) in that the WinXP splash screen appeared and then the computer restarted. No luck.

Well, I guess *there you go*--it's not just a *walk in the park* procedure!  But, you still see folks posting *success* with their various attempts--so must be doable on certain setups!

To all

Here's a possible resource for pursuing booting from a USB device:

The CD Forum--USB Booting

There's appears to be evidence that some folks can master this process!

And, here's another forum:

Boot from USB/Boot Anywhere

@ NightOwl

DOS boots nicely from a USB external HD. I have an 8 MB FreeDOS partition at the start of an external HD. It is set Active so I can boot to this partition, run Image for DOS and restore an image stored elsewhere on this external HD. It should work for Ghost.exe as well. No CD needed for restores with this method.

@ Brian


Quote:

DOS boots nicely from a USB external HD. I have an 8 MB FreeDOS partition at the start of an external HD. It is set Active so I can boot to this partition, run Image for DOS and restore an image stored elsewhere on this external HD. It should work for Ghost.exe as well. No CD needed for restores with this method.

Very nice, and interesting--I have no experience with systems that offer this type of USB support--do you have to load any DOS USB mass storage device drivers (for example the Panasonic USB drivers) in the boot files to have access to the external USB HDD after booting--or does the system that supports booting from the HDD also take care of continued access after booting without any added DOS USB drivers?

@ NightOwl

I did the whole exercise again using a DOS partition instead of FreeDOS.

A few years ago you helped me create an 8 MB DOS partition on my HD0 using the sys C: method. I imaged this partition and restored the image to the start of my external HD, then set the partition Active and simply booted from the external HD just as if I was booting a USB flash drive. No drivers were added to the DOS partition. It was exactly the same as the partition on my HD0.

I ran Ghost 2003 from the DOS partition on the external HD and it saw all NTFS partitions on HD0, HD1 and the external HD. I created Ghost  images of a HD0 partition and wrote them to HD1 and to the main NTFS partition on the external HD.

I think this is a practical way to run image/restore from a USB external HD. I know you have a config.sys menu so you could have various image/restore scenarios in the menu if you desired.

@ Brian


Quote:

I ran Ghost 2003 from the DOS partition on the external HD and it saw all NTFS partitions on HD0, HD1 and the external HD. I created Ghost  images of a HD0 partition and wrote them to HD1 and to the main NTFS partition on the external HD.

Interesting--access in DOS to everything without any additional DOS drivers!

If you boot from your regular HDD to DOS, and have an external USB HDD hooked up--does your system still give you access to that USB HDD in DOS--in other words, do you have access to that external HDD in DOS regardless of how you boot?  If *Yes*, then I must assume your BIOS is taking care of access to any mass storage device regardless of what type of controller (USB, IDE, SATA) is being used.


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I think this is a practical way to run image/restore from a USB external HD.

This would be an excellent method for laptop users to have their backup images stored on a second HDD--being as most laptops only have a single HDD available--of course if there's a second partition available on the laptop's HDD, laptop users can save the image file to that second partition, and then transfer it to an external HDD later--might be faster even though it takes additional steps!

@ NightOwl


NightOwl wrote on Jan 11^th, 2010 at 9:57am:

does your system still give you access to that USB HDD in DOS--

Yes. Booted from DOS on the HD, I can see the DOS partition on the external HD.


Quote:

of course if there's a second partition available on the laptop's HDD, laptop users can save the image file to that second partition, and then transfer it to an external HDD later--might be faster even though it takes additional steps!

That's what I like doing too as I create my images while Windows is running.

@ Brian


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Yes. Booted from DOS on the HD, I can see the DOS partition on the external HD.

Dang!  I need a new system  ;) !!!!

I self-built my system in approx. 2002.  It has the following:


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Motherboard:  Gigabyte GA-8IHXP, Socket 478, revision v2.1 CPU:  Intel Pentium 4A, 2.4 GHz (Alias:  Northwood, A80532) BIOS:  AMI (American Megatrends, Inc.), date 2/24/2003, 8IHXP F8 Boot Devices:  Floppy Disk, Hard Disk, CD-ROM, ATAPI ZIP, LS-120 Chipset:  North Bridge:  Intel Tehama i850E                South Bridge:  Intel 82801DB ICH4, Ultra ATA/133 Controller Integrated RAID Controller Chip:  Promice MBFastTrak133 Lite RAID Controller

I'm curious, if you're willing to share--what motherboard/ or system brand/model do you have?

How old is it?

What is the BIOS manufacturer and what is the BIOS date that gives you BIOS supported access to attached USB external storage devices without DOS device drivers?

@ NightOwl

It's a Dell 9150, three and a half years old. The BIOS is two and a half years old and apart from seeing "Dell" in the BIOS, there is no other identification.

@ Brian


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apart from seeing "Dell" in the BIOS, there is no other identification

I guess Dell doesn't want you to know who the *actual* supplier(s) of a component(s) is (are)!

It's been awhile, but when I last opened an older Dell system, the motherboard was clearly labeled *Asus*--and I think the BIOS chip was *Award*--but I'm sure the suppliers change over time!