Hello all,

I had just finished setting up a dual boot, I had Win Xp pro running on a 1 TB drive so I had plenty of space to add Windows 7 Ultimate 64, which created its own partition.
I had everything in Win 7 loaded and working just the way I wanted.
So at that point I wanted a image of Win 7 as a back up.  What was nice about the dual boot was the fact that which ever OS I booted to, it was always C: drive.
So I fired up ghost 15 and told it to copy C: which it did successfully.
OK, this is were the trouble started. I forgot to unplug (eSATA) the drive that had the image. When I rebooted, something corrupted Win 7.
I tried to repair Win 7 by booting to the Win 7 disc, this was unsuccessful.
So I unplugged the drive that had the dual boot (BTW, Xp pro still booted just fine) plugged in the image (port 0 on my MB) and tried to boot the image that I just made, that came up with the MBR missing. Because it was set up as a dual boot, the MBR was in Xp pro.
So I used the Win 7 disc the repair the image, this worked, so at least I now had a  image of Win 7 that I could boot to.
So now I want to repair my dual boot set up.
Here's my plan, first, I'll plug in my old drive and boot to XP pro, there I can delete the corrupted Win 7 partition back to unallocated space. Them I'll plug that drive into port 3. Then plug the drive that has the image back the port 0.
Then I'll boot to the Ghost 15 disc and tell Ghost to copy my drive back the unallocated space on the other drive, but I would tell it not to copy MBR as that's all ready in XP pro.
Please let me know if this idea will work.

BTW.  I do have one more empty drive that I could use back up the image that I made of win 7 just in case something goes wrong.

@ Moose

You have had an adventure that was unintended. My first comment is I don't think you did what you described.


Mr Moose wrote on Jul 20^th, 2010 at 9:30am:

I wanted a image of Win 7 as a back up

Mr Moose wrote on Jul 20^th, 2010 at 9:30am:

I forgot to unplug (eSATA) the drive that had the image

Mr Moose wrote on Jul 20^th, 2010 at 9:30am:

plugged in the image (port 0 on my MB) and tried to boot the image that I just made

You did Copy Drive, not create an image. See "What is the difference between an "image" and a "clone"?"

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/notes.htm#note14

If you had created an image rather than use Copy Drive you would have been fine. Booting with two Win7 OS visible to each other led to drive letter issues. It was a drive letter issue, not a MBR issue.

As you are going to delete the Win7 partition I strongly urge you to avoid the Microsoft dual boot method like the plague. What you have experienced could happen again. Set up your dual boot so the OS are independent. With independent OS there is no sharing of booting files and each OS is hidden from the other.

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/index.htm

We'll be happy to help out.

Edit... When you plugged the Copy of Win7 into the motherboard so that it was HD0 (no other HDs plugged in), what was the error message that you received? Did it say "BOOTMGR is Missing"? You mentioned MBR is missing. I know you have repaired this OS.

Hello Brian,

Yes, I did use "Copy my Drive" and it does boot to Win 7 Ultimate 64. I did use the Win 7 disc to repair the MBR, which because of the dual boot, was now in XP pro.
I did make a recovery point of this copy using Ghost 15 to a external HD.
I put The Drive that had the dual boot set up, that I mucked up, into a external enclosure. I tried plugging it in a USB port, but doesn't even show up. Disc Management said there was a signature conflict, so its off line.
Is there away reformat it so I can start over?
I do have recovery points made for Xp pro that were made in Ghost 14 on a different external HD.
The fact that I used Ghost 15 to "copy my drive" if I had just shut my PC down and removed the copy before I rebooted this wouldn't have happened, that was my plan.
After that, my plan was to setup a regular backup using recovery points on a different external HD.
I would like to hear more about your method of setting up a dual boot were the drives can see each other.
   

@ Moose


Mr Moose wrote on Jul 20^th, 2010 at 9:12pm:

I did use the Win 7 disc to repair the MBR, which because of the dual boot, was now in XP pro.

You mean the BOOTMGR, not the MBR. BOOTMGR is in the WinXP partition.

I think the easiest way for you is to start again. You could recover your Operating Systems but there are some heavy going procedures that have to be done in the correct order and I don't think it's worth it.

Do you have an image of WinXP taken prior to creating the dual boot? Otherwise you will need to remove the Win7 BOOTMGR from WinXP and restore the XP NTLDR.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=324

Also, have a look at "Installing Windows 7 to its Own Primary Partition"

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/index.htm

The aim is to have WinXP and Win7 as independent OS, using BootIt NG as the boot manager.

Brian,

I have recovery points for Xp that were made before, and after I setup the dual boot.
All I have left for Win 7 is the clone that I made with "Copy My Drive" I did make a recovery point for that as well.
I hope the clone (I gather that "Copy My Drive" is a clone, not a image) can still be used, it works flawlessly, and again, its all I have left. I really don't want to reload Win 7 unless it the last resort.
I have a App call Easy BCD that makes editing the Bootmgr much easier, as I've already been using it. Its freeware, you can get it here. v2.0.1
I had already planned on donating $20 to them, as this App has already been very helpful.
http://neosmart.net/
I have another 1 TB available for this, as I still don't know how to format the drive used for the dual boot.
What would be the best way to proceed?

Thanks, Bill.

Bill,

That sounds promising. It sounds like you have made a recovery point for Win7 on the (original) eSATA HD. This recovery point was made after you used the Win7 DVD to make the OS bootable?

My suggestion is to boot from the Ghost 15 CD and restore the WinXP recovery point taken prior to setting up the dual boot. Then restore your Win7 recovery point, at the same Ghost session. Just restore the recovery points to the partitions already present. Now you have two independent OS but they need a boot manager.

You can get a 30 day trial of BING to see whether you like it. There are good tutorials on the link I posted. Install BING to the HD. It only needs 8 MB of unallocated space anywhere on the HD to create its own partition. Set up your Boot Items with XP hidden from Win7 and Win7 hidden from XP. Then boot WinXP. If all goes well, try to boot Win7. You will probably get a Boot Manager error on the first boot so fix it with....

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=318

Any questions?

Hi Brian,
The recovery point for Win 7 was made from the clone  "Copy Drive" that was made just just before all of the trouble started, and yes, it was made after the Win 7 DVD made it bootable.
My plan was to make a clone as a backup on this spare drive and put it back in the closet, but I forgot to do that, so when I rebooted the next time it was still plugged in, and trashed my original  install of Win 7. So that clone is all I have.
If all had gone right, my next task was setting up Ghost 15 to do regular back up's, but I never got that far.
So I hope that the recovery point from the clone will work for me.
The reason this is so important, I work for the University Of Wisconsin, I can by software at discount, I have Photoshop CS5 extended that I paid only $169.00, also Windows 7 Ultimate 64, my cost $80.00
But here's the catch, you only get two installs, that's it. I would like to save the other install for my next PC.
In regards to editing BCD I already have Easy BCD
Do you have a link to Bing? I can't seem to find it. What does this do? Is this how I hide xp from Win 7?
One other problem, the drive that had the dual boot, I put it in a external encloser and plugged into a USB port so I could format it.
It doesn't show up in the Win 7 library. In disk management its marked as off line with a little red dot, it also says there's a signature conflict with the OS.
How do I format this if its turned off?
Once I can format this drive, should I make two partitions, boot to Ghost 15, put Xp in the first partition, and Win 7 in the other?
I really appreciate the help, this has been very frustrating, I was so close before it all turned crap.

Bill.

I think I have found a fix for the hard drive problem, just right click on "off line" there I should be able to turn it back on.
The signature conflict with the OS has something to do with drive letters as there are 6 or 7 partitions from all of my attempts to load Win 7 from ghost 15.
I'll see when I get home tonight.

Bill.

@ Moose

BING is one of the cleverest apps I've used.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm

I make use of it numerous times each day.

Your original HD has been formatted in a USB enclosure. This is the HD that had the dual boot. Install it in your computer as the only HD. No external HDs attached either. Boot from the BING CD and delete any partitions on the HD. You want it 100% Free Space. Next, boot from the Ghost 15 CD and restore the two recovery points. They will take up the same space as the original partitions. Finally, install BING and set up the Boot Items. If there is no unallocated free space after restoring both OS, simply resize Win7 8 MB smaller to create a space for BING.

To create the BING CD....

Making the CD

unzip the downloaded file
double click makedisk.exe, next
dot in I accept the agreement, next
dot in Mouse Support Enabled, next
dot in VESA Video, next
dot in Normal, next
don't choose any Default Device Options (if necessary, these can be chosen in BING), next
leave Registration strings blank, next
select your CD burner drive letter (you can use a CD-RW or a CD-R disc)
Finish


To install BING, boot from the CD...

click OK to install
No on the enable support for more than 4 primary partitions
Yes for setup to choose
Yes for dedicated  partition
OK to begin
Yes to create EMBR
OK. Close. OK.

When the computer reboots you will be at the Boot Menu. Click Maintenance to get to the BING desktop.

Click Boot Edit to setup the Menu Items as I discussed above and as you saw in the videos. Remember to Hide each OS from the other. When you boot into Win7, WinXP will not have a drive letter. When you boot into Win7, WinXP will not have a drive letter

Let's say you would like Win7 to be the default. The OS you will use most of the time. In Edit Menu Item tick Default. Then in Settings, make the Timeout 5 seconds (or your time choice). Then you can power on the computer, walk away and if WinXP hasn't been chosen within 5 seconds, the computer boots into Win7.

Hi Brian,

Downloaded BING. After unzipping, I double click on the makedisc.exe I get a error "unable to find makedisc.CFG file" Hit OK to open manually"
After that nothing, the thing is, I can see the file on the list with all the others.

Bill,

I've never seen that. I just downloaded the zip and it works fine here. Maybe try downloading it again. If that doesn't work could you try running makedisk.exe on another computer and create the CD on that computer.

Hi Brian,

I sent them a email.
I was able open the hard drive that had the dual boot, and xp is still there. I'm to see if will still boot, if it does, I'll BING from there as I only have one PC.

Bill.

Mr Moose wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 3:15pm:

The signature conflict with the OS has something to do with drive letters

That's correct.  Win7 uses the same scheme for assigning drive letters as all the earlier NT-based OS's.  You'll find details of the scheme here.  Your cloning operation not only copied the OS partition, it also duplicated the DiskID.  There is no problem as long as only one disk is connected at a time, but when both are connected simultaneously the OS doesn't know which to call "C:".

Basically, what you need to do is change the DiskID on one of the two Win7 disks, either the original disk or the disk with the clone on it.  If you're working from Windows you can use something like WinHex or Roadkil's SecEdit, or use something like PTS Disk Editor if you're working from a DOS boot.

I'll second Brian's enthusiasm for BootIt-NG.  It's one of the best software bargains in the industry, especially if you're multibooting.

Footnote:  BING has a one-click button, "Clear Sig", that was designed precisely for the above situation.  It simply zeroes the DiskID.  It's simple and works great for XP, in which case XP recreates a new, random DiskID the next time it boots up.  But it seems Win7 doesn't know what to do when it encounters a completely zeroed DiskID, so I've resorted to using SecEdit or the PTS tool to alter the DiskID randomly instead of completely zeroing it.   I've only done one or two Win7 tests, but that's my preliminary impression.  Brian, what's been your experience with Win7 and "ClearSig"?

Dan,

Deliberately creating Win7 clones with a drive letter issue was a hobby of mine for a while. You know the situation where after you login to Win7 you see "Preparing your Desktop" followed shortly by a dull grey blue screen which persists.

I found that using Clear Sig in BING followed by a BING BCD Edit allowed Win7 to boot normally on the next attempt.

A slower but just as effective measure is to use fdisk /mbr from a Win98 boot disk and then two Repairs from a Win7 DVD.

Brian wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 4:36pm:

@ Moose BING is one of the cleverest apps I've used. http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm I make use of it numerous times each day. Your original HD has been formatted in a USB enclosure. This is the HD that had the dual boot. Install it in your computer as the only HD. No external HDs attached either. Boot from the BING CD and delete any partitions on the HD. You want it 100% Free Space. Next, boot from the Ghost 15 CD and restore the two recovery points. They will take up the same space as the original partitions. Finally, install BING and set up the Boot Items. If there is no unallocated free space after restoring both OS, simply resize Win7 8 MB smaller to create a space for BING. To create the BING CD.... Making the CD unzip the downloaded file double click makedisk.exe, next dot in I accept the agreement, next dot in Mouse Support Enabled, next dot in VESA Video, next dot in Normal, next don't choose any Default Device Options (if necessary, these can be chosen in BING), next leave Registration strings blank, next select your CD burner drive letter (you can use a CD-RW or a CD-R disc) Finish To install BING, boot from the CD... click OK to install No on the enable support for more than 4 primary partitions Yes for setup to choose Yes for dedicated  partition OK to begin Yes to create EMBR OK. Close. OK. When the computer reboots you will be at the Boot Menu. Click Maintenance to get to the BING desktop. Click Boot Edit to setup the Menu Items as I discussed above and as you saw in the videos. Remember to Hide each OS from the other. When you boot into Win7, WinXP will not have a drive letter. When you boot into Win7, WinXP will not have a drive letter Let's say you would like Win7 to be the default. The OS you will use most of the time. In Edit Menu Item tick Default. Then in Settings, make the Timeout 5 seconds (or your time choice). Then you can power on the computer, walk away and if WinXP hasn't been chosen within 5 seconds, the computer boots into Win7.

Brian,

Xp was a no go, it wasn't even on the menu.
Just to let you know, the drive that had the dual boot was my internal C: drive, it was a 1 TB drive that replaced the old 160 GB that was getting old, I already had the 1 TB it as a spare, yeah 1 TB was a bit large, but I thought I could hear some noise, didn't want to take any chances.
I had Ghost 14 recover Xp to that drive about 6 months ago.
That is where Win 7 was loaded for the dual boot.
Tomorrow at work I'll try BING, maybe my buddy in IT will make the disc for me.
Time to shut this dam computer down and head to bar for a couple of cold ones.

Bill.

Hi Brian,

I've have BING on my flash stick (this time the zip file was extracted to its own folder) that was the problem last night.
In regards to the two partitions, I'm not clear as to how there created, is this done with BING or Ghost 15?
Up until now using Ghost I've always recovered to unallocated space.
After everything is finished, my next task will be setting up the Ghost 15 scheduled backup. Is there anything I need to know before I create the backup now that I'm using BING?
I've read that some third party boot loaders can be problematic when it comes making images.

Thanks, Bill.
 

Bill,

That's fine. I suggest creating a BING CD too. Sometimes you can't install BING from a USB flash drive. This happens if your BIOS sees the flash drive as a hard drive.


Mr Moose wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 11:49am:

Up until now using Ghost I've always recovered to unallocated space.

We can do that. Just so I'm clear on this, you will be restoring to your 1 TB HD?
Which XP recovery point will you be using? One before or after setting up the dual boot?
The Win7 recovery point was created from the cloned HD?
Is Ghost 15 installed in XP or Win7?
Where are your recovery points stored? An internal or external HD?


Mr Moose wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 11:49am:

I've read that some third party boot loaders can be problematic when it comes making images.

As long as you don't unlimit primaries with BING (you won't) Ghost 15 should work well.

Hi Brian,

Yes, I planned on making a disc for BING per your instructions.
The recovery points are on two different external drives.
I will be using the 1 TB drive that still has both OS's on it, but they won't boot.
Can they/should they/ be
formatted first?
I plan to recover the older XP the one before the dual boot.
The recovery point for Win 7 was taken from the clone.
Ghost 14 installed on Xp.
Ghost 15 installed on Win 7.

Bill.

Bill,

It doesn't matter if you leave the partitions on the 1 TB HD or delete them. You will get the same result. I'd leave them and restore the XP recovery point into the XP partition, etc.

After you have restored both OS (don't try to boot either) I'd like you to boot from the BING CD but don't install BING. To do this, boot from the CD and on the Setup screen click Cancel. Don't click OK. Then click OK on the Notice screen. You can practice this on your current system if you like. Then click Partition Work. You will see your HD 0 partitions. Let me know in detail what you see in the Partitions area. I'm interested to know if there is any Free Space and how the partitions are recorded.

Brian wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2010 at 5:32pm:

Bill, It doesn't matter if you leave the partitions on the 1 TB HD or delete them. You will get the same result. I'd leave them and restore the XP recovery point into the XP partition, etc. After you have restored both OS (don't try to boot either) I'd like you to boot from the BING CD but don't install BING. To do this, boot from the CD and on the Setup screen click Cancel. Don't click OK. Then click OK on the Notice screen. You can practice this on your current system if you like. Then click Partition Work. You will see your HD 0 partitions. Let me know in detail what you see in the Partitions area. I'm interested to know if there is any Free Space and how the partitions are recorded.

Hi Brian,

This is quite diiffernt from what wrote below last night.


**************************



Your original HD has been formatted in a USB enclosure. This is the HD that had the dual boot. Install it in your computer as the only HD. No external HDs attached either. Boot from the BING CD and delete any partitions on the HD. You want it 100% Free Space. Next, boot from the Ghost 15 CD and restore the two recovery points. They will take up the same space as the original partitions. Finally, install BING and set up the Boot Items. If there is no unallocated free space after restoring both OS, simply resize Win7 8 MB smaller to create a space for BING.

**************************

OK, the part about no other hard drives plugged in, but my recovery points are on external HD's.
Also, the part about 100% free space on the ! TB drive.
In your last post are we now  switching from the post yesterdays  directions?
I just want to be clear as I printed out the instructions from last night.

Thanks,Bill.

Bill,

Sorry that I haven't been consistent. It makes no difference whether you delete the partitions or leave them. It is one less step if you leave them. Your choice. I'd leave them.

Yes, you can attach the USB external HDs before booting from the Ghost CD or wait until the Ghost recovery environment has loaded. I assume you have USB2 and it will work either way. The reason I suggested having no external HDs connected was that if you were deleting partitions in BING, I didn't want you to mistakenly delete a partition on an external HD.

Thanks for keeping me on my toes.

Brian,

OK, were on the same page now.
I'm not going to be able to do this tonight. Hopefully I will have the results your looking for later tomorrow afternoon, if not, Saturday.
I hope wrap this up over the weekend.
Is the forum active on the weekend?
Wouldn't you know, the night I want to fix my PC, we've had thunderstorms, tornado's, yes, tornado's, there was one just out side of town, and many more throughout the county.
I'm in southern Wisconsin.
Again thanks for the help.
Bill. 

See you at the weekend. I just want to make sure BING is set up correctly before you boot an OS. After you install BING to the HD, it will open with a Boot Menu that should have WinXP and Win7 items. But it will need a minor cleanup before you use those items. Clicking Maintenance takes you to the BING desktop. Note, when you boot from the BING CD you will not see a Boot Menu.

I know it sounds confusing but after a few views of BING you will almost feel at home. I'll give you further instructions before you install BING to the HD.

Dan Goodell wrote on Jul 21^st, 2010 at 8:15pm:

But it seems Win7 doesn't know what to do when it encounters a completely zeroed DiskID, so I've resorted to using SecEdit or the PTS tool to alter the DiskID randomly instead of completely zeroing it.

Dan,

I followed up on your observation and used Edit Sig in BING instead of Clear Sig. I used a Disk Signature of 74696873 as it creates an interesting entry in LBA-0. I still had to do a BCD Edit before Win7 would boot. The BCD fields are cleared in BING when you do Clear Sig or Edit Sig.

Brian wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2010 at 3:26am:

...a Disk Signature of 74696873 as it creates an interesting entry in LBA-0...

ahem... not something recommended if you're working on a friend's or client's machine.  ;)



Brian wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2010 at 3:26am:

I followed up on your observation and used Edit Sig in BING instead of Clear Sig. I still had to do a BCD Edit before Win7 would boot. The BCD fields are cleared in BING when you do Clear Sig or Edit Sig.

"The BCD fields are cleared" ... Aha, I hadn't noticed that before.  That must have been what I was encountering when I was exploring this back around the end of last year.  It would POST, go to the hard drive to begin booting, and immediately recycle back to POST, over and over.

You must have the "HD0/MBR0" type of BCD entries?  Mine are set to {boot}.  I see them get cleared if they were the "HD" type, but my {boot} entries don't get cleared by a ClearSig.  The result seems to be that a combination of ClearSig with {boot} type BCD entries behaves just like XP--Win7 boots and rebuilds a new DiskID, without requiring a BCD edit.

Hi Brian,

OK, so far everything has gone as planned.
Here's the info.

Hard drives: HD_0 (the underscore should be under the zero)

Partitions:
MBR Entry 0             
Partitions MB 152532 HPFS/NTFS

Partitions:
MBR Entry 1
Partitions MB 152626 HPFS/NTFS

Partitions:
_____________

Partitions: 648710 MB Free space


That's all of it.
Awaiting further instructions.

Bill.   

Bill,

Looks good. BING will install in the last 8 MB of the Free Space. Install BING..

To install BING, boot from the CD...

click OK to install
No on the enable support for more than 4 primary partitions
Yes for setup to choose
Yes for dedicated  partition
OK to begin
Yes to create EMBR
OK. Close. OK.

When the computer reboots you will be at the Boot Menu. Click Maintenance to get to the BING desktop.

Click Partition Work. Select MBR Entry 0 and click Properties. Change the Name to WinXP. OK. Select MBR Entry 1 and click Properties. Change the Name to Win7. OK. Close from Partition Work.

Click Boot Edit to setup the Menu Items. Select each OS in turn and click Edit. Remember to Hide each OS from the other. In the MBR Details section of Boot Edit click Hide next to the OS you want hidden. You can change the Identity name if you like. When you boot into Win7, WinXP will not have a drive letter. When you boot into Win7, WinXP will not have a drive letter.

OK. Boot each OS.

I wouldn't be surprised if Win7 didn't boot on the first attempt. If not, do a BCD Edit from BING.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=318

I'll be away for a few hours. I'm looking forward to good news.

Brian,

I won't be able to finish this until tomorrow afternoon, I'll post the results when its all complete.

Thanks, Bill.

Dan Goodell wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2010 at 8:09am:

You must have the "HD0/MBR0" type of BCD entries?Mine are set to {boot}.I see them get cleared if they were the "HD" type, but my {boot} entries don't get cleared by a ClearSig.

I just tried your {boot} entries and a Clear Sig. Win7 does boot without needing a BCD Edit. Nice to know.

Brian,

OK, XP is working as I type this, Win7 is not.
I printed out the following from the link

"How to use the edit features of Bootit NG"

I thought I followed each step correctly.
The part where it says Repeat steps 3-6 may be were I went wrong as I didn't quite understand what they wanted.
Win7 get as far as the 4 colors come together, then they pules in brightness and it just hangs and I have to do a hard boot to get out.

Bill.

Bill,

That's not a BCD issue. It sounds like a driver issue but I can't give you a solution.

Let's see what we can do with your Win7 on the eSATA HD. Maybe we can copy it. Connect your eSATA HD and boot into BING. In Partition Work, does the HD appear as HD 1? Is your Win7 partition showing in the Partitions area??

Don't try and boot an OS yet with the eSATA HD attached.

Just a question. Don't do this. Is it possible to remove the eSATA HD from its enclosure and install it internally as a second HD?

Edit.... When you first tried to boot Win7 with BING did it behave as it's doing now? Did it get to the 4 lights?

Brian wrote on Jul 24^th, 2010 at 3:31pm:

Just a question. Don't do this. Is it possible to remove the eSATA HD from its enclosure and install it internally as a second HD? Edit.... When you first tried to boot Win7 with BING did it behave as it's doing now? Did it get to the 4 lights?

Brian,

No, I haven't tried to boot to Win7 with BING, should we try that?
The hard drive in question, the one with the clone is currently in a box.
I've already seen this behavior with Win7 after I tried to restore win7 on the old (and gone) dual boot drive.
I have one older recovery point of Win7 that I experimented on. I took this just after I installed Ghost 15. I was able restore this point.
But, at this time I didn't have Photo Shop CS5 installed, so this recovery point is useless to me.
Could it be possible that the recovery point made from the clone is some how corrupt?
Let me know if/how we can proceed?

Bill.

Bill,

Try this first. Let's see what we can do with your Win7 on the eSATA HD. Maybe we can copy it. Connect your eSATA HD and boot into BING. In Partition Work, does the HD appear as HD 1? Is your Win7 partition showing in the Partitions area??

Just to confirm. It connects to your computer via eSATA, not USB?

Brian wrote on Jul 24^th, 2010 at 4:03pm:

Bill, Try this first. Let's see what we can do with your Win7 on the eSATA HD. Maybe we can copy it. Connect your eSATA HD and boot into BING. In Partition Work, does the HD appear as HD 1? Is your Win7 partition showing in the Partitions area?? Just to confirm. It connects to your computer via eSATA, not USB?

Brian,

Just to be clear, are talking about the Clone of Win7?
Connect this with eSATA port.
OK, this makes me a bit nervous, but you say were booting to BING only.
Let me know.

Bill.

Bill, that's correct. The clone on the eSATA HD. I want to know if it is seen in BING. Stop at this point.

Later we'll try and boot it and if that is successful we'll clone it to your 1 TB HD.

Brian wrote on Jul 24^th, 2010 at 4:22pm:

Bill, that's correct. The clone on the eSATA HD. I want to know if it is seen in BING. Stop at this point. Later we'll try and boot it and if that is successful we'll clone it to your 1 TB HD.

Brian,

I did as you said, in partitions works, drive 3 which is the ESATA port, shows up, 152626 MB HPFS/NTFS

Bill.

Bill,

Drive 3? Do you mean HD 2? Or HD 3?

HD 0 is your 1 TB HD. What is HD 1? etc

Brian,

Yes, the list on the left, the top is HD0
When clicked on HD3 that is where I saw the partition, that would also coincide with eSATA drive that is also on port 3 on the MB.

Bill.

What is in HD 1 and HD 2 in BING?

Brian,

I forgot that I have two other drives, with the first one having 3 partitions (data drive) .This is HD1
The other drive is a scratch drive for Photo Shop,
that is DH2.
The last is the eSATA HD3 125626 mb,
MBR entry 0

Bill.

That gave me a good laugh as I thought you only had HD 0. No problems.

Click Boot Edit, Add.
On the left side of the Window click the drop down arrow to select HD 3.
In the Boot field click the drop down arrow and choose the partition (should be MBR Entry 0).
In the Identity field type eSATA
Put a tick in the first Swap (not the Swap in the One Time Option area)
On the right hand side of the window, in HD 0, click Hide next to WinXP and Win7. (two Hides)
Click OK. OK.

Click Resume.
Select eSATA and click Boot.

What happened?

Brian,

OK, I'll give that a try tomorrow afternoon, and get back to you.

Thanks, Bill.

When you last booted that HD, was it internal? Or external? And Win7 booted normally?

Brian,

I assume that were referring to the Cloned drive. The last time, it was in the external enclosure for the test with BING. Other than that, I was taking it in and out of the tower so I could post to the internet. So now at least I can boot XP.
I have a bad feeling that the recovery points I've made from the Cloned drive are in some way corrupted, but on the other hand the Cloned drive seems to work fine, but if Ghost can't back it up, its pretty much useless, it could only sever as a temporary backup at best.
I logged on to print out your latest instructions, I'll report back.

Bill.

Brian,

I can't seem to find "click boot edit, add"
I've looked in partition works, but I don't see it anywhere.

Bill.

You have to be using BING installed on the HD. Not the BING CD.

Boot Edit is the icon above Partition Work.

In Reply #26 you used Boot Edit.

Brian,

Thanks for the quick reply.
I'll have to forgive me, the Cloned drive caused all of this, so to be clear.
With the Cloned drive in the external enclosure, plugged into the eSATA port. I can boot the PC and it will take me to BING, there I hit maintenance tab, there I'll see Boot edit, yes?
Sorry for being overly cautious.

Bill.   

Mr Moose wrote on Jul 25^th, 2010 at 3:52pm:

With the Cloned drive in the external enclosure, plugged into the eSATA port. I can boot the PC and it will take me to BING, there I hit maintenance tab, there I'll see Boot edit, yes?

That's correct.

Assuming Win7 boots we'll clone Win7 to your 1 GB HD.

Brian,

OK, I'll get back to you tomorrow.

Thanks Bill.

I suspect the Win7 on your eSATA HD will present a Windows Boot Manager error screen when it tries to boot. If it does, do a BING BCD Edit on the eSATA Win7 partition in Partition Work.

In the section on "Menu Entries" in the web page, you have to edit Device and also OS Device. For the Type fields, use HD 3 and MBR Entry 0.

In the section on "Boot Entry" in the web page, you have to edit Device in Windows Boot Manager as well as Device in Windows Memory Diagnostic. Choose {boot} for both these edits.

Remember, both OS on HD 0 should be Hidden in the eSATA Edit Menu Item before you boot the eSATA HD.

Don't try to boot WinXP or Win7 on HD 0 with the eSATA HD attached.

Brian,

Yes, Win7 on HD3 (eSATA) doesn't boot. I just printed out what I need to change per your post#52
I'll make the changes and report back.

Bill.

Brian,

I went though the same process as before and I changed the setting to what you asked for, making sure to hide XP Win7 from eSATA.
After I finished I tried to boot eSATA, no luck.
This time was diffrent, it said Windows is starting up, and the 4 colored dots on the splash screen started to come together, it then froze and started all over in a loop.
I went back to double check the settings, in Menu, device, I think it changed back to XP.
I wish I had a screen shot.
Is it possible that my change here didn't stick?
Also in one of the screens there were 2 win7 entry's I chose the one at the bottom.
This was setting up what was in Post#42

Bill.

Bill,

That is not a Windows Boot Manager error so a BCD Edit won't fix it. With a Windows Boot Manager error you see a black screen with white text and labelled Windows Boot Manager error.

You mentioned you have seen this type of error in the past. I have never seen it so if others know the answer, please help. The following web page describes your error but in the setting of installing Win7. Have a look at it and maybe we'll try some of the suggestions if the following clone doesn't load into Windows.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/255700-31-windows-setup-hangs-setup-starting-windows-displayed

Let's try cloning the Win7 on the eSATA HD to the 1 GB HD anyway.
In Partition Work, select the Win7 partition on HD 0 and click Delete. Put a tick in Clear Boot Sector and click Yes. You will now have a large area of Free Space.
Select HD 3. Select the Win7 partition and click Copy. (in the Actions column)
Select HD 0. Select the large area of Free Space and click Paste.
Name it Win7_paste
Click OK and wait until the copy has completed. Click Close.
Disconnect the eSATA HD.
Do a BCD Edit and choose HD 0 and Win7_paste for the first two edits. {boot} for the next two.
Click Boot Edit and create a Boot Item for Win7_paste. Don't select Swap and click Hide for WinXP.
Any luck booting Win7_paste?

Brian,

OK, I've printed out #55 I'll report back.

BTW, Somewhere while searching the web I came across this, I wish I would have book marked it.

When cloning win7 it is necessary to run the Win7 repair disc 3 consecutive times on the Clone to fix something??

I don't no what this fix was referring to, but I did see it somewhere.
Does this make any sense?
I haven't tried it, but with a copy of the Clone maybe its worth a try.

Bill.

Mr Moose wrote on Jul 26^th, 2010 at 7:10pm:

When cloning win7 it is necessary to run the Win7 repair disc 3 consecutive times on the Clone to fix something??

I've made lots of clones and I've never done that. But we are having no success so if Win7_paste doesn't load, try it.

Brian,

OK, I followed what you wrote, named it Win7_paste, made the Clone, closed it.
I turned the eSATA power off, I hope it was OK to do that with a eSATA drive.
After I clicked on boot edit the BING screen Icons disappeared then after about 10 to 15 seconds the boot menu popped up, but Win7_paste wasn't there, just Win7. I did delete Win7 per #57, So what just happened?

Bill.

Mr Moose wrote on Jul 26^th, 2010 at 8:04pm:

After I clicked on boot edit the BING screen Icons disappeared

Wow. After clicking Boot Edit you have to click Add. Then fill in the details as outlined in Reply #42. You will choose from HD 0. No Swap and Hide WinXP. Name the Identity Win7_paste.

Restart if you have trouble with disappearing icons.

We'll delete that old Win7 Boot Item later.

Brian,

Sorry, but the odd behavior spooked me and I bailed.
So do I need to start over? is Win7_paste gone?
I did delete to old Win7 as I could see the empty space. But I now have Win7 just no Win7 _paste

Bill.

No, everything is OK. Just delete Win7 from the Boot Menu - DEFAULT.MNU

Click Add on the Boot Menu and setup Win7_paste.

Brian,

OK, I'm restarting, I'll report back.

Bill.

The Boot Menu - DEFAULT.MNU is the one you see after clicking Boot Edit.

Brian,

OK, guess what, Win7 booted this time.
Here's what happened.
This is how booted earlier, It came up normal, the 4 colors came together to from box's, then it started to pules lighter to darker as it has before.
This time I waited maybe 2 to 4 minuets, I saw text blink at the bottom very briefly then the little blue disk came up just like it normally would, then bingo (no pun intended)
I'm sending this from Win7.
I did a little searching this morning and some mentioned they needed to wait many minuets.
I'm going to try and boot again after I sent this to see if it still takes so long, and this time I take note of the time.
If I only would have tried this in the beginning.

Bill.

Bill,

That sounds very promising. Both OS are booting from HD 0. I hope Win7 "learns" to boot faster.

Brian,

This time it took 40 seconds to get to log on.


Bill

Mr Moose wrote on Jul 26^th, 2010 at 8:52pm:

Brian, This time it took 40 seconds to get to log on. Bill

I'm going back and try XP.

Excellent!

Check the WinXP Boot Item and make sure Win7_paste is hidden.

Brian,

XP works just like it always has,
Win7 only took 24 seconds this time.
You know, now that I think about it, that long wait made me think it was locked, but the fact that the 4 colored box's were still pulsating, that should have been a clue to keep waiting. I wish I would have timed it, but it had to be at least 2 if not 4 minuets.
This info could really help a lot people down the road.
Now the big question, can Ghost 15 create a recovery point that will work.
Next question, what's the best way to do this?
OK, I know how to setup Ghost, but what I mean, is the fact that I've never setup Ghost to backup a dual boot.
This is what I had in mind.
In XP just use the backup that's already in place with Ghost 14, and the same with Win7 and Ghost 15.
Is there a better way?
I will check back tomorrow.
Thank you so much for hanging in there for me, honestly, I was ready to give up.

Bill.

Brian wrote on Jul 26^th, 2010 at 9:09pm:

Check the WinXP Boot Item and make sure Win7_paste is hidden.

Brian,
I'll check that, but I did tell Win7_paste to hide, and I could see hide next to XP when I was in there.

Bill

Bill,

I think you only need to use Ghost 15. To image WinXP from Win7, select Show Hidden Drives.

I'm pleased it worked out. You now have a solid independent dual boot.

Hi Brian,

Is it possible to create a image of my drive, that when restored, would bring it back to its current dual boot configuration, with BING, Win7, XP all in place just as it is right now?
Or, would I just need to image both OS's  and if anything went wrong, I would need to rebuild the dual boot, which would mean reinstalling BING and starting over?
Whatever backup configuration I decide to go with in the end, I will need to test it, I have yet another 1 TB that I can use to do this. If all's well, that drive will be formatted and used for data backup.
Right now I have a total of 10 hard drives, 4 of those are off site in two different locations.
Why so many drives? I'm a photographer on the side (I still have a day job to pay the bills) I have a lot of data to backup, and I need redundancy, storage is dirt cheap, if lost, my pictures can never be replaced.
Yes, I can always replace the OS, but images, and now Clones, have saved me countless hours, more than once, over the years.

Thanks, Bill.

Mr Moose wrote on Jul 27^th, 2010 at 1:11pm:

Is it possible to create a image of my drive, that when restored, would bring it back to its current dual boot configuration, with BING, Win7, XP all in place just as it is right now?

Not with Ghost 15 but yes with IFW, IFD and IFL. These apps are available  from TeraByte Unlimited. You can buy them in a "Bundle" with BING.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/index.htm

I have a test computer with several images of the whole HD. One image contains two WinXPs, Win7, Ubuntu, DOS, Data and BING. After restoring the image to a blank HD, everything works.

Brian wrote on Jul 27^th, 2010 at 3:14pm:

Mr Moose wrote on Jul 27th, 2010 at 1:11pm: Is it possible to create a image of my drive, that when restored, would bring it back to its current dual boot configuration, with BING, Win7, XP all in place just as it is right now? Not with Ghost 15 but yes with IFW, IFD and IFL. These apps are available  from TeraByte Unlimited. You can buy them in a "Bundle" with BING. http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/index.htm I have a test computer with several images of the whole HD. One image contains two WinXPs, Win7, Ubuntu, DOS, Data and BING. After restoring the image to a blank HD, everything works.

Brian,

To bad Ghost 15 can't do that, but I paid for it, so Ghost it will be.
I'll just set up a weekly schedule for both OS's with Ghost 15 and be done with it.
I will test the first image, I'll just change out HD0 with the other 1 TB drive, and see if it boots, if it does, I'm good to go.
The only reason I'm going to do this, is the fact that we didn't try to recover Win7 from a saved recovery point, and I can change out the drive faster than I can edit BING, which is already setup and good to go anyway.
Again Thanks.

Bill.
 

Bill,

No problems. Ghost 15 should be able to image and restore BING although I haven't tried it. Even if it can't, if there is a next time, you should be able to install and configure BING in a few minutes.

If you want to change "Win7_paste" in the Identity field of the Edit Menu Item to a more friendly name, go ahead. It is just a name. BING will still work.

If you want to test your Ghost images you could restore them to Free Space on HD 0 and set up a temporary triple boot. Then delete the restored partition. As you are limiting Primaries you can only have 4 primary partitions on each HD. But this doesn't mean you can't restore your images to another HD for testing purposes although restoring to HD 0 is the most sensible way to test.

Restoring one of your old Win7 recovery points (images) would be an interesting exercise. After confirming Win7 works, delete the partition.

Brian,

That's a good idea, a little more practice with BING wouldn't hurt either.
I'll report back.

Bill.

Brian,

I had no problem restoring the recovery point that I made with Ghost 15 four days ago.
I didn't have my watch, but counting the seconds, it took a little over 3 minuets for Win7 to boot.
It did the same thing as before, the color dots came together to make 4 box's that pulsated back and forth in brightness. 
I wounder what's up with that delay?
Yet, when I boot directly from the Cloned drive (HD0) there was no delay at all.
In BING what does ticking the swap box do? I need to read up on BING, I haven't even looked, but is there a manual?
I would have to say that this behavior may very well be unique to my situation, there just isn't any documentation about it anywhere on the net, but I did read somewhere that you needed to wait.
Anyway, I'm sure glad I waited, or I'd be reinstalling everything by now.

Bill.

Bill,

Good work. I've no ideas about the delay. I have not seen it.

There is a userguide for BING in the zip you downloaded. "Swap" is for booting an OS that isn't on HD 0. It makes the BIOS think the HD is HD 0.

Just for general information, you can create an Extended partition and you can restore as many OS images into the free space in that partition as will fit. BING will boot them without any issues. It takes care of the hidden sectors.

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/index.htm