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Message started by schmirk on Feb 8th, 2011 at 11:43pm

Title: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 8th, 2011 at 11:43pm
hi,
anyone maybe know why a fat 32 partition is not visible in DOS? it is 18GB logical at the end of my second hard disk which is 500GB. I boot to DOS on a small primary partition on my first disk. The first disk also has a fat 32 partition at the end that is visible to DOS but I'm trying to get a ghost 4 image out to the second disk.

thanks if you have any ideas

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by MrMagoo on Feb 9th, 2011 at 11:35am
How big is your extended partition?  Is the disk SATA or IDE?  How big is the first disk?  Are they partitioned the same?

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 9th, 2011 at 1:04pm
Attached is a clip from the partition manager. The disks are IDE and there are 2 more NTFS single logical partition drives on the second cable.

Edit: GH1 (N:) is the issue.

DOS is Win98 4.10.2222. In the past I did a similar layout on a smaller/older drive which worked no prob.
disks.jpg (102 KB | 263 )

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 9th, 2011 at 1:53pm
@ schmirk

This is reported occasionally with Ghost 15 but it must be unusual with DOS. With Ghost 15, if there is partition overlap or the partition extends beyond the end of the disk, it isn't seen in Ghost.

Can you post a partinfo? Download PartInfo from...

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downloads-free-software.htm

In Windows double click partinfg.exe and then File, Export to Text File.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 9th, 2011 at 5:48pm
                 MBR Partition Information (HD1 - 0x96FCA669)
                   (CHS: 1023/239/63)  (WCHS: 64601/240/63)
+====+====+=============+====+=============+=============+=============+
| 0: |  0 |    1   0  1 |  f | 1023 239 63 |       15120 |   976752000 |
+====+====+=============+====+=============+=============+=============+
                              Volume Information
+----+----+-------------+----+-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 0: |  0 |    1   1  1 |  7 | 1023 239 63 |          63 |   438268257 |
| 1: |  0 | 1023   0  1 |  5 | 1023 239 63 |   438268320 |   501757200 |
| 2: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
| 3: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
+----+----+-------------+----+-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 0: |  0 | 1023   1  1 |  7 | 1023 239 63 |          63 |   501757137 |
| 1: |  0 | 1023   0  1 |  5 | 1023 239 63 |   940025520 |    36726480 |
| 2: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
| 3: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
+----+----+-------------+----+-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 0: |  0 | 1023   1  1 |  b | 1023 239 63 |          63 |    36726417 |
| 1: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
| 2: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
| 3: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
+----+----+-------------+----+-------------+-------------+-------------+
                  MBR Partition Information (HD1) Continued:
+====+====+=============+====+=============+=============+=============+
| 1: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
| 2: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
| 3: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
+====+====+=============+====+=============+=============+=============+
                            BOOT SECTOR INFORMATION
------------------------------------------------
          File System ID: 0x7   LBA: 15183  Total Sectors: 438268257
                                  Jump: EB 52 90
                              OEM Name: NTFS   
                         Bytes Per Sec: 512
                         Sec Per Clust: 8
                           Res Sectors: 0
                                Zero 1: 0x0
                                Zero 2: 0x0
                                  NA 1: 0x0
                                 Media: 0xF8
                                Zero 3: 0x0
                         Sec Per Track: 63
                                 Heads: 240
                           Hidden Secs: 63
                                  NA 2: 0x0
                                  NA 3: 0x800080
                         Total Sectors: 0x01A1F7160
                               MFT LCN: 0x0C0000
                          MFT Mirr LCN: 0x01A1F716
                         Clust Per FRS: 0xF6
                      Clust Per IBlock: 0x1
                             Volume SN: 0xBE4C53BC4C536DE1
                              Checksum: 0x0
                             Boot Flag: 0xAA55
----------------------------------------------
        File System ID: 0x7   LBA: 438283503  Total Sectors: 501757137
                                  Jump: EB 52 90
                              OEM Name: NTFS   
                         Bytes Per Sec: 512
                         Sec Per Clust: 8
                           Res Sectors: 0
                                Zero 1: 0x0
                                Zero 2: 0x0
                                  NA 1: 0x0
                                 Media: 0xF8
                                Zero 3: 0x0
                         Sec Per Track: 63
                                 Heads: 240
                           Hidden Secs: 63
                                  NA 2: 0x0
                                  NA 3: 0x800080
                         Total Sectors: 0x01DE834D0
                               MFT LCN: 0x0C0000
                          MFT Mirr LCN: 0x01DE834D
                         Clust Per FRS: 0xF6
                      Clust Per IBlock: 0x1
                             Volume SN: 0x6A843E37843E05DB
                              Checksum: 0x0
                             Boot Flag: 0xAA55
---------------------------------------------
         File System ID: 0xB   LBA: 940040703  Total Sectors: 36726417
                                  Jump: EB 58 90 (EB 58 90)
                              OEM Name: MSDOS5.0 (MSDOS5.0)
                         Bytes Per Sec: 512 (512)
                         Sec Per Clust: 32 (32)
                           Res Sectors: 34 (34)
                              Num FATs: 2 (2)
                         Root Dir Ents: 0 (0)
                               Sectors: 0 (0)
                                 Media: 0xF8 (0xF8)
                          Secs Per FAT: 0 (0)
                         Sec Per Track: 63 (63)
                                 Heads: 240 (240)
                           Hidden Secs: 63 (63)
                          Huge Sectors: 36726417 (36726417)
                     Huge Secs Per FAT: 8963 (8963)
                                 Flags: 0x0 (0x0)
                               Version: 0 (0)
                        Root Dir Clust: 2 (2)
                           FS Info Sec: 1 (1)
                           FS Bkup Sec: 6 (6)
                              Reserved:  0  0  0  0  0  0
                             Drive Num: 0x80 (0x80)
                                   Res: 0x0 (0x0)
                              Boot Sig: 0x29 (0x29)
                                Vol ID: 0x28FED4F5 (0x28FED4F5)
                          Volume Label: NO NAME     (NO NAME    )
                               FS Type: FAT32    (FAT32   )
                             Boot Flag: 0xAA55 (0xAA55)

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 9th, 2011 at 11:13pm
@ schmirk

Nothing is obviously abnormal.

If it was my computer I'd delete the GH1 partition, resize the Extended partition and create a primary FAT32 partition in the unallocated space. I'll bet Ghost and DOS will see the primary partition.

240 heads. Is your computer IBM, Lenovo, HP, Compaq?

Edit... In Ghost did you use the down arrow to view your partitions after tabbing to the list? I think there is a bug in Ghost where you can't scroll with the mouse to see all your partitions.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 10th, 2011 at 12:56am
Ya, neither 'e: enter' at the DOS prompt or the ghost down arrow(I was up and down that menu a few times hoping the partition would show itself.)

I didnt think those brand names were still connected with computers.  This one was kinda patched together starting around 2002.

MSI k7t turbo2
AMD athlon xp 2600+
SD RAM!!! max 1.5G
Drive in question is Western Digital
Severly bottlenecked NV 6800
SB Live 24bit
USB 1.0 :P Slow...
Optical drive sacrificed to free up IDE for 4th hard drive.

I'm not hooked on gaming much anymore so I stuck with it. I keep it clean and it performs.

The CPU is max this board will take and in order to install it the BIOS is updated with its last release v3.6. Not sure if that has any connection to DOS. I thought about 'moving' the ghost partition to the front of the disk and making it primary but dreaded relocating all the backup data. Did not think a primary really suited being at the back of the drive but now that you mention it that might be a work around. I dont like the idea of displacing my entire drive letter hierarchy, primarys first right, but I am not too bound to it as the reformat is still young. And my OS images are not yet made pending partition visibility.

Tomorrow I will think about going ahead with your idea unless a simple tweak shows up.

Thanks for taking a look.

Edit:RE the PARTINFO someone mentioned the GH1 partition is formatted DOS 5 yet I am running DOS 7 on C:...

DiskCheckup shows no errors in the SMART attributes but thought Id throw this on in case there is any usefull info. Drive letters have changed since this reading.

Device ID:                      1
Device Capacity:                16889331826771721 MB
Serial Number:                  WD-WCASY9555336
Model Number:                   WDC WD5000AAKB-00H8A0
Firmware Revision:              05.04E05
Partitions:
    J:                          213998 MB
    Q:                          244998 MB
    R:                          17924 MB
IDE Registers:
    Features:                   0x0
    Sector Count:               0x1
    Sector Number:              0x1
    Cylinder Low:               0x0
    Cylinder High:              0x0
    Drive Head:                 0xB0
    Command:                    0xEC
ID Sector:
    Cylinders:                  16383
    Heads:                      16
    Sectors per track:          63
    Cur Cyls:                   16383
    Cur Heads:                  16
    Cur Sectors/Track:          63
    Bytes per track:            N.A.
    Sectors per track:          N.A.
    Gen Config:                 17018
    Buffer Type:                0
    Buffer Size:                32768
    Vendor Unique:              0 0 0
    More Vendor Unique:         0x8010
    ECC Size:                   50
    Double Word IO:             0
    Capabilities:               12032
    PIO Timing:                 0
    DMA Timing:                 0
    BS:                         7
    Current Sector Capacity:    16514064
    Total Addressable Sectors:  268435455
    Mult. Sector Stuff:         272
    Single Word DMA:            0
    Multi Word DMA:             7

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 10th, 2011 at 3:17am
I just remembered this thread. The first few pages are similar to your situation.

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1290692291/0

Creating a primary partition still sounds good.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by NightOwl on Feb 10th, 2011 at 10:38am
@ schmirk

These are always the *head scratchers*!  On several of my systems (current and in the past) I have had second HDDs partitioned with only logical partitions (avoids drive letter shifting when booted to DOS)--and I've never had a problem with DOS not assigning a drive letter if a FAT partition was present.

But, I'm not clear on a couple things.....


Quote:
I'm trying to get a ghost 4 image out to the second disk

What program are you using in DOS where the DOS partition is not showing up on that 2nd HDD?  The only *ghost 4* I'm familiar with is *Ghost 4 Linux*  (G4L).  But, then you say:


Quote:
Ya, neither 'e: enter' at the DOS prompt or the ghost down arrow(I was up and down that menu a few times hoping the partition would show itself.)

Well, that sounds like Symantec DOS Ghost--what version?


Quote:
Ya, neither 'e: enter' at the DOS prompt

So, you can not change to the *E:* partition, which should be the drive letter of that FAT32 partition on that second HDD--but, I presume you can change to the *D:* partition on the first HDD?


Quote:
This one was kinda patched together starting around 2002.

The CPU is max this board will take and in order to install it the BIOS is updated with its last release v3.6. Not sure if that has any connection to DOS.

I had a system I put together at about that same time period--it had a HDD size limitation at 137 GB.  But, apparently you are accessing the first HDD which appears to have around 250 or 260 GB--so, my limitation does not apply--but, maybe the BIOS is not properly supporting up to the 500 GB of that 2nd HDD.  Do you have other *spare* HDDs to experiment with to test the size limits?


Quote:
I thought about 'moving' the ghost partition to the front of the disk and making it primary but dreaded relocating all the backup data. Did not think a primary really suited being at the back of the drive

You realize that Brian was not suggesting *moving* that FAT32 partition:


Quote:
If it was my computer I'd delete the GH1 partition, resize the Extended partition and create a primary FAT32 partition in the unallocated space.

If you have a partitioning program that would allow a non-destructive (doesn't wipe out data) re-partitioning--he's talking about deleting the FAT32 partition inside that extended partition, shrinking the extended partition creating unallocated space at the end of the HDD, and then re-creating the FAT32 partition there as a primary partition.  No data has to be *relocated* (except what might be on that 18 GB partition), and a DOS primary at the end of a drive should not be a problem--unless you have formatted the HDD with a non-LBA aware formatting tool originally--and that may only be a problem if you are trying to boot from a primary at the end of the drive--not just accessing it.

Do you have any other DOS based HDD utilities--such as PartitionMagic, a DOS based Master Boot Record utility, a HDD DOS based disk editor, or Ghost's DOS based *gdisk*, or similar?  Does that partition show up in one of those?  If not, then I'm back to wondering if it's a BIOS limitation.....

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 10th, 2011 at 2:49pm
Ghost 2002 (not sure why I thought it was Ghost 4)

D:(GH2) is visible in DOS to all DOS utils.


Quote:
What program are you using in DOS where the DOS partition is not showing up on that 2nd HDD?

No program in DOS can see GH1. Ghost nor a command prompt browse (e: enter). I mention FDisk below.

XP has no trouble seeing all partitions in Disk-1.


Quote:
Do you have other *spare* HDDs to experiment with to test the size limits?

There are 4 drives, Second largest is Disk-0 at 250GB. Next largest is the drive in question.


Quote:
You realize that Brian was not suggesting *moving* that FAT32 partition:

Ya sorry, probly just posting too late last night. I am aware of the process and would use PM8 in XP to implement. Just struck me as odd with primary at back but hey, if it works... Not ready to pull the trigger on that plan yet.

I put a query in at the MSI forum about hard drive size limitation. If the BIOS can serve XP access to the drive something is working but maybe DOS 7 has a BIOS limit?


Quote:
Do you have any other DOS based HDD utilities--such as PartitionMagic, a DOS based Master Boot Record utility,


DOS PM8 is hanging at startup.

MBRWiz /list displays all four drives primary and extended partition info but no logical drive info on any.

FDisk v1.01 sees the drive capacity correctly, but declares no partitions are defined.
 

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 10th, 2011 at 3:13pm
@ schmirk

Can you look at your HDs with BootIt NG?

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm

Download BootIt NG. There is a one month trial usage. Unzip the file and make a boot CD.


double click makedisk.exe, next
dot in I accept the agreement, next
dot in Mouse Support Enabled, next
dot in VESA Video, next
dot in Partition Work (Don't put a dot in Normal), next
don't choose any Default Device Options (if necessary, these can be chosen in BING), next
leave Registration strings blank, next
select your CD burner drive letter (you can use a CD-RW or a CD-R disc)
Finish

Boot from the CD into Partition Work. You can look at all 4 HDs. If you have a 127 GiB HD limit you won't see anything beyond that point. WinXP will show partitions beyond the 127 GiB limit.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by MudCrab on Feb 10th, 2011 at 8:34pm
Regarding Reply #4, what does the PARTINFO.EXE program report when run from DOS/Win98? It might be interesting to compare them.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 10th, 2011 at 9:33pm
RE: Reply #7 Wow! You guys really dig in. I think I heard several "Whoooshes!" as I browsed through that.

Not that I can tell by looking at the numbers but it might be possible that the integrity of my partition table is a little shaky? Ok for XP to access the drives but not ok enough for DOS to read them?

Thanks for cluing me in to these other great programs by the way. Now I know about TeraByte's stuff too.

I made a PM8 boot floppy and booted with it instead of my c: DOS. It posted Caldera DR DOS 7.02 while loading and PM8 referred to the entire Disk-1 as 'unallocated'.

Also booted with BootItNG(thanks for the quick instructions). It posted EMBRL 2.04 while loading, no indication of DOS version. Entire Disk-1 '476GB Freespace'

As you can see from my Disk Manager picture, XP begs to differ.

Initial response from the MSI mobo forum does not state a hardware limit being the issue.

@Brian Have not reconfigured the partition in question to primary yet. Decided to poke at the issue a little more before trying.


Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 10th, 2011 at 9:55pm
@ schmirk


schmirk wrote on Feb 10th, 2011 at 9:33pm:
Entire Disk-1 '476GB Freespace'

Well you don't have a HD limit.

But PM and BootIt don't see any partitions on the HD although WinXP does. (By the way, BootIt isn't DOS. It runs from a TeraByte OS) I've seen this in the past on a couple of friends' computers. An empty HD in BING. I thought it was related to a bad CD or CD drive because BING from a USB flash drive did show partitions. Maybe you could try BootIt from a floppy as I doubt your computer will boot from USB. But PM was from a floppy.

You could also try a Linux partition app as they access the hard drive directly rather than through the BIOS.

The mystery deepens.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Dan Goodell on Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:38am
Just to add my two cents to the discussion . . .

Reply #6:  "Device Capacity:  16889331826771721 MB"
Wow, wish *I* had a 16 billion terabyte disk!   ;D


Reply #6:  "someone mentioned the GH1 partition is formatted DOS 5 yet I am running DOS 7 on C:"
That's just a text string put in by the formatting utility, and is completely immaterial.  It's purely informational, and the rest of the boot sector information shows a proper FAT32 boot record.


Reply #9:  "Ghost 2002"
Just as an aside, in other threads we've determined Ghost 2003 had a disk size limit around 1TB, so does anyone know what Ghost 2002's limit is?  schmirk's problem occurs irrespective of Ghost, so there's obviously something else going on, but I wonder if the Ghost version will also ultimately be a factor.


Reply #9:  "D:(GH2) is visible in DOS to all DOS utils."
Okay, that rules out a 128/137GB BIOS restriction.


Reply #9:  "There are 4 drives, Second largest is Disk-0 at 250GB. Next largest is the drive in question."
Huh??  I thought the drive in question is 500GB, so how is that the next largest after 250GB?  How big are the other two, and are they attached?  If they are attached they could be causing problems, but I don't see any evidence of them in any of the reports presented.


Reply #9:  "I am aware of the process and would use PM8 in XP..."
Yikes!!  Never use PM8 from Windows!  That's asking for trouble.  It's a great utility when used from DOS, but never use it from Windows.


Reply #9:  "DOS PM8 is hanging at startup."
I suspect PM8 may have a limit somewhere around 500GB -- IIRC, I couldn't use it on a 640GB disk.  I *think* it can handle 500GB, but if there are two other mystery disks floating around, have we ruled out interference from those?


Reply #9:  "If the BIOS can serve XP access to the drive something is working but maybe DOS 7 has a BIOS limit?"
Windows has its own disk driver, but DOS uses the driver built into the BIOS.  Completely different, and it's absolutely crucial to understand the distinction.


Mudcrab's Reply #10:  "what does the PARTINFO.EXE program report when run from DOS/Win98?"
Excellent catch, Mudcrab.  schmirk has to be careful to qualify the evidence so as not to confuse us.  Brian asked for a (DOS) partinfo, but schmirk presented a (Windows) partinfw.  Those access the disk through different drivers, so we haven't established what the BIOS driver sees.


Reply #12:  "Have not reconfigured the partition in question to primary yet."
That's not going to make a difference, so no rush on that.  There's something more basic wrong.


Reply #12:  "it might be possible that the integrity of my partition table is a little shaky?"
I see no anomalies whatsoever in the partition report in Reply #4.  Your partition tables look perfectly fine.


This seems to be an issue with DOS and/or the BIOS, so further tests with Windows and linux utilities won't shed any light on that.  We know there's not a 128/137GB restriction, but it's an old computer so we can't yet rule out whether the BIOS may have some other disk size limit somewhere between 250GB and 500GB.  After all, the BIOS is using 240 heads, so we know it's not a standard BIOS.

The next step should be to follow Mudcrab's suggestion, and to avoid interference I would test with only the 500GB disk connected and all other hard disks temporarily disconnected.

It might also be helpful to know exactly how (what tools) you created and formatted the partitions on the 500GB disk.  You mentioned "the reformat is still young", which I assume means the exact procedure will still be fresh in your mind.




Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:48am

Quote:
Maybe you could try BootIt from a floppy as I doubt your computer will boot from USB.

BootIt was from a floppy too. Do you think the CD version will do any different?

Alternatives are popping into my head now in case no light is shed on this. Is there a reliable way to do partition imaging from within XP if I am multi-booting? Goes against what I have been taught what with XPs wild disk accessing.

It is an old board but there are USB options in BIOS for first boot device. Not sure if any of these would accept a flash drive.
USB-FDD, USB-ZIP, USB-CDROM, USB-HDD.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 11th, 2011 at 2:45am
@ schmirk


schmirk wrote on Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:48am:
Do you think the CD version will do any different?

Probably not as the floppy saw 3 HDs but why not try it. There is a new beta BootIt BM which works in Protected Mode and can directly access the drives via BIOS (direct). It could be worth trying. Run it from the floppy or CD. Don't install.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downloads/beta/bootitbm_en.zip

Others have suggested a partinfo from DOS. With that zip you downloaded, put partinfo.exe on a boot floppy. Boot to an A: prompt and type

partinfo > a:\partinfo.txt   
(press Enter)

Can you attach the file partinfo.txt to a post. It will be fairly large.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Dan Goodell on Feb 11th, 2011 at 3:48am
I think it would also help to take a look at exactly what's in the 500GB's MBR sector.  Maybe there's something unusual in there that could be hindering DOS.

Get Roadkil's Sector Editor, a nice utility that runs from XP.  Extract the secedit.exe and put it on your desktop, then double-click to launch.  In the 'Select Disk' window, scroll down and select "Physical 1".  Cut and paste the resulting screenshot here for us to take a look at.



Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 11th, 2011 at 5:52pm
Hi Dan! Thanks for joining the party. I never noticed the 16bil terabytes. That was DiskCheckup's read.

'Largest' drive is 500gb. Currently xp disk manager shows 0-232gb, 1-465gb, 2-232gb. Pulled last HD for the CDburner.


Quote:
Yikes!!  Never use PM8 from Windows!

500gb drive was partitioned with PM8 from windows then formatted in xp. Thanks for letting me in on that. But that was last year for drive-1. I am currently reformatting my OS on drive-0.


Quote:
Mudcrab's Reply #10:  "what does the PARTINFO.EXE program report when run from DOS/Win98?"
Hi Mudcrab, I totally didnt see your post. (thanks for the syntax Brian.)

====================================================================
           MBR Partition Information (HD1 - 0x00000000)
                         (CHS: 1023/239/63)
+====+====+=============+====+=============+===========+===========+
| 0: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |         0 |         0 |
| 1: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |         0 |         0 |
| 2: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |         0 |         0 |
| 3: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |         0 |         0 |
+====+====+=============+====+=============+===========+===========+


And Dan with all other drives disconnected:

====================================================================
           MBR Partition Information (HD0 - 0x00000000)
                         (CHS: 1023/239/63)
+====+====+=============+====+=============+===========+===========+
| 0: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |         0 |         0 |
| 1: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |         0 |         0 |
| 2: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |         0 |         0 |
| 3: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |         0 |         0 |
+====+====+=============+====+=============+===========+===========+


A little different through the eyes of the BIOS compared to the XP based partinfo.


I tried the BING beta floppy - EMBRL 4.00 (see pic)

Edit: I forgot the setting BIOS (direct) New pic replaced original below with drive access. Wow, our first success! Good eye Brian.

And SectEdit in XP.  (see pic)





BING_4_0_beta_0_12.jpg (160 KB | 288 )
Sectedit-R2-Physical-1.jpg (176 KB | 276 )

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 11th, 2011 at 7:10pm
In the beta BootIt, click the Bus drop down arrow and change BIOS to BIOS (direct). Does that allow you to see the partitions as it should bypass the BIOS and read the drive. 

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 11th, 2011 at 8:30pm
Success! Thanks Brian, I modified the picture in my last post.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 11th, 2011 at 8:42pm
@ schmirk

Great work. Now I hope someone can explain what it means!

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Dan Goodell on Feb 11th, 2011 at 9:24pm
Okay, now that's troubling, all those zeroes in Reply #18.  Yet the secedit screenshot clearly shows there is a diskID and a properly defined extended partition.  The PartInfo should have shown "HD1 - 0x96FCA669" at the top, and should have shown the numbers for the lone primary partition in row 0 of the table.  (The disk has a single primary partition of type-0F (extended), so for the sake of this discussion we need to get that one partition to be seen before we can even talk about the logical volumes within it.)

I think I'd explore two possibilities at this point: either the BIOS doesn't support a disk of that size, or the empty MBR may be causing DOS or the BIOS to think the disk is uninitialized.


BIOS issue:  Go back to the Terabyte site and download DiskInfo.  Extract the .exe and put it where you can run it from DOS.  Boot into DOS, locate the diskinfo.exe and run it from the command prompt:

    diskinfo  >  diskinfo.txt

This will capture the DiskInfo report in a text file.  If you have more than one hard disk attached, edit out the sections about the other disks so the report isn't so long.  You should have two sections, one headed "* * B I O S * *" and one headed "* * A T A * *".  Then post the diskinfo.txt report here.  Indications are your mobo has a weird kind of BIOS, so I don't know if this will reveal anything, but it's worth a look.


MBR issue:  The secedit reveals there is no MBR boot code above the partition table.  Theoretically, that's not supposed to matter because you're never booting from that disk.  But if you've got a weird BIOS, we can't rule out the possibility your BIOS thinks the disk is uninitialized if it doesn't see MBR code.  That feels like a longshot to me, but there's absolutely no harm in putting MBR code in there so you might as well do it so we can rule out that possibility.

You can use BING to insert a standard MBR to the master boot sector.  (In 'Partition Work', click 'View MBR', click 'Std MBR', then apply the change.)

Try that, then repeat both the DiskInfo and PartInfo reports to see if it made a difference.

Addendum:  I see you've replaced the "all zeroes" BING screenshot while I was writing this.  With the new screenshot, it's looking more like a BIOS issue.

BTW, your Disk-2 is a 250GB . . . does it also have only an extended partition?  If it also has empty MBR code, it might be useful to compare these same tests between the 500GB and the 250GB.  (We know Disk-0 has MBR code, so comparisons with Disk-0 won't tell us anything.)






Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 12th, 2011 at 12:15am
I am getting a hunch I will need a BIOS(direct) drive imaging utility. Strange though because I have not come across a reference to DOS size limit that falls after 232GB but before 476GB. I specifically asked at the MSI forum about a BIOS limit in this mobo thinking they would be able to look it up with ease but did not get confirmation.

Drive-2(single extended, single logical NTFS 232GB) displays a MBR through regular BIOS access and PartINFO details that I did not include above to save space here.

The Drive-1 PartINFO(blank) and DiskINFO before and after inserting a standard MBR in both BIOS and BIOS(direct) did not change.

Here is the DiskInfo for Drive-1. The only difference when comparing to the other drives I noticed is a lot less cylinders a lot more spt when calculating 'total sectors' in the RAW extensions info. Drives 0 and 2 are:
16643 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 spt = 267369795 total sectors.



                               DISKINFO 1.03

                      * * * * * * B I O S * * * * * *

Item 2 Device 81 - Hard Drive
  Basic BIOS Information:
    1024 cylinders, 240 heads, 63 spt = 15482880 sectors
    Maximum BIOS (CHS) LBA: 15482879
    512 bytes per sector
    476940 MB, 976773168 total sectors
    Maximum LBA: 976773167
  Raw Extensions Test
    Version: 2.1
    Support: DISKACCESS EDD
    Result 26: 26
    Result 30: 30
    Result 74: 30
    4095 cylinders, 240 heads, 255 spt = 250614000 total sectors
  Extended BIOS Information:
    Support: DISKACCESS EDD
    Info: EXGEOVALID
    EDD 2.1 Information:
      Device 1, IO Address 1F0h/3F6h, LBA Enabled
      IRQ 14, DMA Channel 0, DMA Mode 2, PIO Mode 4
      FASTPIO DMA MULTI16 CHSTRANS LBADIRECT 32BIT



                       * * * * * * A T A * * * * * *

Item 1 ATA Hard Drive
  IOAddress 0x1F0/0x170, Device 16, Channel 0, Info 0x10, Flag 0x1
  WDC WD5000AAKB-00H8A0
  65535 cylinders, 1 heads, 63 spt = 4128705 sectors
  CHS1: 1023 cylinders, 64 heads, 63 spt
  CHS2: 1024 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 spt
  512 bytes per sector
  476940 MB, 976773168 total sectors
  Details:
    SN:      WD-WCASY9555336
    Firmware: 05.04E05
    Model: WDC WD50
    Multi Transfer (47): 16
    Capabilities: DMA LBA IORDY- IORDY STDBYTIMER
    Multi Transfer (59): 16
    268435455 total sectors
    MW DMA - Support: DMA0 DMA1 DMA2   Active:
    MW DMA cycle times: 120/120
    PIO Support:PIO3 PIO4
    PIO cycle times: 120/120
    Queue Depth: 0
    ATA-8/No sub version
    Supports (82): SMART SEC PWR WC LA HPA WB RB NOP
    Supports (83): DLMC PSB SFEA SETMAX AAM 48BIT DCOVL FLUSH FLUSHEX
    Supports (84): SMARTLOG SMARTST GPLOG
    Enabled (85): SMART PWR WC LA HPA WB RB NOP
    Enabled (86): DLMC SFEA 48BIT DCOVL FLUSH FLUSHEX
    Enabled (87): SMARTLOG SMARTST GPLOG
    UDMA Support: UDMA0 UDMA1 UDMA2 UDMA3 UDMA4 UDMA5
    UDMA Enabled: UDMA5
    Time requred for sec erase unit complete: 57
    Time requred for enh sec erase unit complete: 57
    APM value: 0
    Master PW Revision Code: 65534
    Device Selection: Jumper
    Acoustic Values - Recommended: 128 Current: 254
    Total Sectors 48bit: 0x03A386030
    Security Status: SUPORTED


Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 12th, 2011 at 12:44am

schmirk wrote on Feb 12th, 2011 at 12:15am:
I am getting a hunch I will need a BIOS(direct) drive imaging utility. 

Just a comment on this statement. TeraByte's IFD has BIOS (Direct) capability. TeraByte's IFL accesses the HD directly without using the BIOS. BootIt BM is for "imminent" release and the final version will include IFD which will run from the BootIt desktop.

Edit... There is a 30 day trial for IFD, IFL.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 12th, 2011 at 1:24am
I just noticed Drives 0 and 2 have 255 heads. Drive 1 has 240 heads. Weird.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Dan Goodell on Feb 12th, 2011 at 4:17am
Well, I see no smoking gun in Reply #23.  Both the BIOS and ATA sections show "476940 MB, 976773168 total sectors".  That's where I would have expected a discrepancy might have shown up if there was a BIOS limitation -- ATA would show the full, correct value and BIOS would show some lower number.  (I think most of the other geometry and sector totals are conditional responses in case the calling BIOS doesn't support 48-bit LBA mode, and they seem to congregate around the expected 8GB and 137GB limits.)  The fact the BIOS section does show the full LBA count at all means it must have at least made the correct 48-bit ATAPI function call to the disk.

That doesn't necessarily prove the BIOS supports 48-bit LBA *correctly* -- it is an old BIOS, after all, so it could be a buggy, early implementation -- but there's nothing in the DiskInfo report to implicate the BIOS.  (48-bit LBA was adopted as a standard in the late 90's.)

Nevertheless, all the other evidence points to the BIOS as the source of the problem.

While it's possible for a DOS program to use its own disk driver, most DOS programs simply use the 16-bit "Real Mode" disk driver built into the BIOS so the programmers can avoid "reinventing the wheel".  But that means that if the BIOS is the problem, programs that rely on the BIOS driver are going to be victimized by that problem.  PM8, Ghost 2002, and PartInfo are DOS programs, and don't see the partitions.  In its normal mode, BING also uses the BIOS driver, and didn't see the partitions.

Programs that use their own driver will bypass the BIOS and thus avoid any BIOS problem.  Apparently the BING v2 beta can use its own driver when in "BIOS (direct)" mode, and it saw the partitions.  (That's a new option that isn't in the earlier versions I'm familiar with.)  Windows is a 32-bit (or 64-bit) "Protected Mode" platform, so using the 16-bit BIOS driver is not an option.  Windows has to use its own disk driver.  As of XP-SP1 the Windows driver fully supports 48-bit LBA (i.e., disks larger than 137GB) and of course accesses the disk directly, not through the BIOS.  Windows sees the partitions.  Every application that runs in Windows and uses the Windows driver, such as PartInfW, also sees the partitions.

I think the evidence is consistent and compelling: the BIOS is probably the culprit.  You can spend more time trying to pinpoint a diagnose or trying to come up with a fix, but doing all that just to run Ghost 2002 doesn't seem cost-effective to me.  You could still run into a Ghost disk size limit, and I believe the NTFS version used by XP wasn't fully supported until v2003.  Very good partition imagers for little or no money are widely available, so the practical solution is to say goodbye to Ghost 2002.

Windows-based cloning/imaging utilities work well in most scenarios, and won't use the BIOS driver.  Personally, I have a philosophical aversion to using a Windows-based utility to image the active Windows partition, but the evidence shows it does work.  But I have no reservations using a Windows-based tool to image *another* partition (i.e., not the one I'm booted from), and since all my systems multiboot, it's very easy for me to image OS "A" while booted into OS "B", and vice versa.

If you prefer to stick with non-Windows imagers, you'll have to find one that doesn't use the BIOS driver.  At the moment, the only possibilities that come to mind are something linux based, or perhaps the forthcoming BING v2 (because of the direct access option).  That's still in beta, but Brian can tell you more than I can about what it may eventually be able to do.

If you're not quite ready to give up on Ghost 2002 yet, I can think of only two additional diagnostic avenues I'd consider exploring.  (1) It's a Western Digital disk, so you could download WDC's DLG ("Data Lifeguard Diagnostics"), let it examine the disk, and/or poke through the disk's firmware settings to see if anything looks out of place.  (2) Since we suspect some kind of disk size limitation, you could tinker with the disk's SETMAX setting to artificially reduce the apparent disk size to see if there's a point where the partition table magically reappears.  SETMAX can be modified with DLG or other tools like HDAT2 and FTOOL.  (Note that would only serve to confirm the source of the problem.  Artificially reducing the disk size is not a practical solution.)






Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 12th, 2011 at 1:57pm
I believe the diagnostics are done. ;D An effective work around has been established. You guys have been great and have brought this noob along tremendously into the "Next Generation" of increasing capacity HD technology.

As of this morning Ghost 2002 is officially retired from my system.

Terabyte IFD trial floppy:
With a successful image of MO1 XP install partition to the GH1 partition then clone back to the MO2 partition, error free instant multibooting is back on my machine and Terabyte is in the drivers seat now.

Considering the image took 1 minute to make and 38 seconds to clone I believe the time investment into this inquiry will be repaid in rather short order when compared to a 10 minute ordeal with Ghost each way.

I have to thank Night Owl for his hilarious comment regarding his adopting Terabyte's Suite on the other thread you recommended:

Quote:
I just ordered their complete suite--steep learning curve ahead--but, always like a challenge  Wink  (NightOwl rocking back and forth chanting *Change is good!  Change is good!........)!
(http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1290692291/30)

might be time for a new Rad guide...

And Brian, your recommendations really came through, plus you have earned Terabyte another satisfied customer.

Dan, how did you learn all that? lol. And thank you. You articulate very well the depth of HD knowledge that has found its way into your head.

[smiley=beer.gif] Cheers to you all!

Brandon



Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 12th, 2011 at 2:16pm
Brandon,

I'm glad it has worked out. Very, very interesting thread.

As mentioned in the other thread, buy the TeraByte Bundle. Best value around.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Dan Goodell on Feb 12th, 2011 at 9:13pm
Glad to hear your decision, and welcome to the "Next Generation"!  Not to rain on your revelry, but you may not be out of the woods yet.   ;)

The diskmgmt screenshot in Reply #2 shows you have separate 'System' and 'Boot' partitions, which suggests you might be using a Microsoft-style dual-boot.  That's not a true dual-boot, and creates special considerations (and problems) for cloning and imaging.  You can read more about this at www.goodells.net/multiboot/principles.shtml and www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.shtml.

Since you've already tried cloning MO1 to MO2, you're in a position to explore the hazards of Microsoft's pseudo dual-booting debacle.  Try changing some of the system settings (such as changing the background wallpaper, or changing the drive letter of one of your data partitions), then reboot into the other OS and see if things also changed in the other OS.  In a true dual-boot, changes in one OS should *not* affect the other OS.

Glad to hear you like Terabyte's stuff.  I've been a Terabyte customer since 2002.  Note that BING (when installed to the hard disk) is a true multi-boot manager.  I think that's ultimately what you'll want to use for your dual-booting, but first you'll have to get rid of the Microsoft-style dual-boot.  Unfortunately, that usually means wiping the Windows partition and starting over, reinstalling XP from scratch.  Once you get a clean, single-boot installation on C:, it's relatively easy to clone it to as many other partitions as you want.



Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 13th, 2011 at 12:31am
Brandon,

You have cloned MO1 to MO2. When you try to boot MO2 it is probably MO1 that is booting.

That's explained in Dan's web site.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 13th, 2011 at 1:11am
That is a great nudge in the right direction. I am becoming aware of a certain gap in my awareness of what it takes to get a multi boot up and running. I edit my boot.ini manually but really, that's as far I see. I know that c:(system) means somehow all the windows installs are tied to that drive so DO NOT format it. Thank you so much for your suggestion. I do want to get on top of this and know it cant be that complicated but where to start... where to start.

I will gladly look in to your links above. At a more relaxed pace though. When it comes time to replace my current setup I will hopefully know how get the new installations going in a true multiboot fashion.(probly around the same time I buy another 500 GB drive.)

I will also take some time to digest what just happened. That was a lot of stuff I had never seen before. :o My system is setting up well now so I better stop tweaking it as spring work is just around the corner. This project has progressed through multiple stages over the last couple weeks and pretty much consumed my time.

I do have a bit of a mystery on my lap right now though. When I cloned MO1 to the MO2 partition I did not at first notice IFD cloned the actual partition and not just the contents like ghost used to. It resized MO2 to 4.11GB and named it MO1, leaving 800MB free. Not exactly what I was aiming for. These tools are a lot more powerful than my old set and that is not surprising for my first step up to bat. I am hoping it was the result of a setting I chose. Not too worried about it though, that's what the extra boots are for, messing them up! Poke poke, aww it broke. Reset!


Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 13th, 2011 at 1:26am
Brandon,

When you are ready I'd follow Dan's advice. Delete both Windows partitions and install a new WinXP into a primary partition. You can keep your DOS partition and most of your extended partition.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/index.htm

See.... Installing Windows XP to its Own Primary Partition and

Creating and Booting a second copy of Windows XP

We didn't discuss cloning from BING. It is so easy.


schmirk wrote on Feb 13th, 2011 at 1:11am:
It resized MO2 to 4.11GB 

That is done by default as MO1 was 4.11 GB but you can change the size in the last IFD window. I guess you wanted it to be 4.89 GB. You can resize it in BootIt BM if you would like it to be 4.89 GB.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 13th, 2011 at 1:36pm
I have the luxury of a laptop for regular use if things go sideways. I am set up well for experimentation and learning. Thank you for all the great links. Time to dig in for a while. Hey, I will post back some time with the new developments/questions when I start to implement. Perhaps glean some more wisdom from a Rad critique or two.

But first I'd like to absorb some of the info you have headed me towards. If you have any more links for general info that would fill out my upcoming study I am all eyes. Seems you guys have a good perspective now of where I'm heading.

...adding a linux boot is on my must do list but I am sure I will come across that in the reading I am heading in to.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 13th, 2011 at 1:47pm
Most of us cut our teeth on Dan's website. Understand that information before you start.


schmirk wrote on Feb 13th, 2011 at 1:36pm:
..adding a linux boot is on my must do list

For an Ubuntu install...

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=279



Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by NightOwl on Feb 14th, 2011 at 9:43am
@ schmirk

Well, looks like you have *moved on* to different software while I was away--but, this thread still contains *issues* that I wish to comment on--maybe the other *players* will come back and respond.

From you reply #2:


Quote:
DOS is Win98 4.10.2222. In the past I did a similar layout on a smaller/older drive which worked no prob.

What size HDD was that?

From your reply #6:


Quote:
Edit:RE the PARTINFO someone mentioned the GH1 partition is formatted DOS 5 yet I am running DOS 7 on C:...

Maybe I'm missing the post with that comment....but I can't find where that was mentioned.  I suspect there must have been some behind the scene PM (private messaging) going on.  (As an editorial note--I dislike PMs when it comes to ongoing thread discussions--it often creates disjointed thread comments, and one can not follow very well what's going on--off my soap box!)


Quote:
DiskCheckup shows no errors in the SMART attributes but thought Id throw this on in case there is any usefull info. Drive letters have changed since this reading.

Device ID:                      1
Device Capacity:                16889331826771721 MB
Serial Number:                  WD-WCASY9555336
Model Number:                   WDC WD5000AAKB-00H8A0
Firmware Revision:              05.04E05

What program is that?!  Is it running from DOS or from inside Windows?  Those kinds of results should make one pause and wonder why this is being reported for your HDD on this system!

From you reply #9:


Quote:
Ghost 2002 (not sure why I thought it was Ghost 4)

Okay.  Ghost 2002 should be able to see your NTFS partitions as *sources* for creating a Ghost backup image--but it was not until Ghost 2003 that NTFS partitions could be used as a *destination* for saving a Ghost backup image to.

So, my question is....did the NTFS partitions show up in DOS Ghost 2002 as possible *sources* (did you even look?--I know you where attempting to use the DOS partition on the 500 GB HDD as a *destination*--so maybe you didn't)--most likely they should have been listed as 2:1 and 2:2?

I have some more comments to make on other various replies, but time will not permit for the moment......

But, as a general comment--I know you have moved on to using other software that apparently *works around* whatever basic problem you have been experiencing with your 500 GB HDD--but, I would be constantly *looking over my shoulder* going forward.  Especially when using any type of HDD utility, who knows when a non-compatible interaction is going to suddenly occur!

To be continued.....

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 14th, 2011 at 3:14pm
@ NightOwl

Just to summarize...

PartInfo from DOS
Partition Magic from a boot disk
BootIt NG

Saw no partitions on that HD.
I assume Ghost saw no partitions either but Brandon will know.

I wonder whether a different 500 GB HD would behave the same way if it was substituted.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 14th, 2011 at 10:07pm
NightOwl. Hey man wheredya go?

Quote:
What size HDD was that?
That setup was 250GB disk 0 and 160 GB disk 1 with the ghost logical partition at the back of it.


Quote:
Maybe I'm missing the post with that comment....but I can't find where that was mentioned.
No PMing. I started this quest on other threads. Was not getting much response but as things started here one other thread piped up with that point. As both threads were young I relayed info to help the people who were thinking. Wasn't long 'til the Rad crew stole the show and I bowed out elsewhere.


Quote:
What program is that?!
DiskCheckup. Found it in my archives and decided to play with it. That is a weird read. It runs in XP. Maybe I will follow Dan's suggestion and use WDs diagnostics on the drive as XP has a proper read on the drive's capacity. I also wouldn't doubt DiskCheckup may be tweaky or out of date.


Quote:
did the NTFS partitions show up in DOS Ghost 2002 as possible *sources*
Ya, I have been imaging my MO1... 2..3  partitions for some time with G2002 on the old smaller drives. More recently imaging to the GH2 partition on the same drive with a laborious front of drive to back process. When I put the 500g in last year and tried drive0 to drive1 I could no longer see GH1. It payed off to have a back up, back up partition!


Quote:
I know you have moved on to using other software that apparently *works around* whatever basic problem you have been experiencing with your 500 GB HDD--but, I would be constantly *looking over my shoulder* going forward.
Looking at where I am coming from, it is like I've been keeping the blinders on as everything else moved forward. I set up this system near 10 years ago(900mhz, 256MB RAM, 20GB HDD) following the Rad guides and it was THAT stable that I did not need any changes, just upgrade the hardware and beef up the capacity occasionally. I 'am' over my shoulder, time to move forward. But I heed your words, I am stepping out of something that has worked without any debilitating hangups(til now), without requiring a masters degree in HDD technology, for near a decade.

I am the type to fiddle with things until I find their limit rather than dump it for new expensive stuff. The only thing left for this system to upgrade is the storage capacity. And of course, there is always OS optimization. Still plenty of work to be done on this rig.

I appreciate ghost2002 for working so well over the years and this is the first time it has not worked. Not even ghost's fault, ( ? ) either the DOS I am running it on or the BIOS itself has an invisible drive size barrier or ... the HDD is to blame.

Now curiosity is getting the better of me. I will do the WD diag and post the results.

Presently I am experimenting with IFD and preparing for a study of the info on Dan's site. Then Terabyte's.

Brian

Quote:
I wonder whether a different 500 GB HD would behave the same way if it was substituted.
I'm sure we will know by mid summer ;)

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 14th, 2011 at 10:19pm

schmirk wrote on Feb 10th, 2011 at 12:56am:
the PARTINFO someone mentioned the GH1 partition is formatted DOS 5 yet I am running DOS 7 on C:...

NightOwl, this is in Reply #6.

Edit... I think the "someone" was on another forum.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by NightOwl on Feb 16th, 2011 at 10:52am
@ schmirk


Quote:
No PMing. I started this quest on other threads. Was not getting much response but as things started here one other thread piped up with that point.

*Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea máxima culpa*--my bad  :-[ !  Thanks for the clarification.


Quote:
I am the type to fiddle with things until I find their limit rather than dump it for new expensive stuff.

Ah, a person after my own heart!  I tend to do the same thing--I have a 2002 system that I have nursed along for years.  I have the same WinXP install running since about 2003 without re-formatting and re-installing the OS--which so many seem to recommend every year or two to do--I loath that idea.  But, that system became *flaky* and essentially *died* last April, 2010--turned out to be bad capacitors which were failing.  I just recently had the motherboard repaired and it's up and running again.  I've had to do some repairs to the WinXP registry and other software fixes because the bad capacitors caused random Blue Screens of Death (BSOD) with corruption of the software on the HDDs as a result (I plan on starting a new thread about my experiences with this process--some might find it interesting!).


Quote:
I appreciate ghost2002 for working so well over the years and this is the first time it has not worked. Not even ghost's fault, ( ? ) either the DOS I am running it on or the BIOS itself has an invisible drive size barrier or ... the HDD is to blame.

I bet the HDD is fine and not to blame!  And, because all the other DOS programs are having problems--again I'm betting that Ghost 2002 is also not to blame!  I think, given that your system dates to 2002, even though in theory the BIOS may be able to work with HDDs greater than 250 GB in Windows--somewhere in the inner workings, the motherboard engineers *missed* something when it comes to booting to DOS and using larger HDDs.  You have *found a bug* in your motherboard's implementation to use larger HDDs--and it will never be addressed and fixed at this point!


Quote:
The only thing left for this system to upgrade is the storage capacity.

Well, you know that a 250 GB HDD works.  You could try a 320 GB HDD for a reasonable price.  Or just stick with 250 GB HDDs.  If you have 4-250 GB HDDs on your system--that's a lot of capacity for a system that started back in 2002!


Quote:
Quote:

did the NTFS partitions show up in DOS Ghost 2002 as possible *sources*

Ya, I have been imaging my MO1... 2..3  partitions for some time with G2002 on the old smaller drives. More recently imaging to the GH2 partition on the same drive with a laborious front of drive to back process. When I put the 500g in last year and tried drive0 to drive1 I could no longer see GH1.

Not sure I have an answer here to my question--with the new 500 GB HDD installed, and booted to 2002 Ghost--did the first two partitions (the NTFS partitions) on the 500 GB HDD show up in Ghost as 2:1 and 2:2 ?  You have always stated that the *DOS partition at the end of the 500 GB HDD did not show*--but how about the two NTFS partitions at the beginning of the HDD?


Quote:
Brian
Quote:

I wonder whether a different 500 GB HD would behave the same way if it was substituted.

I'm sure we will know by mid summer

You're planning on getting another 500 GB HDD?  Same brand?  My *gut feeling* is a different 500 GB HDD of the same or different brand will behave the same!  I just don't see the HDD as being *at fault* here!  But, you never know until you try!


Quote:
The only thing left for this system to upgrade is the storage capacity.

Actually, you could possibly move forward by adding a SATA II RAID PCI Card .  I did something like this for my first PC--an IBM PS/1 back in the mid-1990's.  The PCI card's BIOS inserts itself and *works around* the motherboard's BIOS and any limitations that might be there (there can be *compatibility issues to deal with--and may have to *disable* one or both motherboard HDD controllers--I had to fiddle until it all worked!)!  Or Ultra U12-40626 PCI Expansion Card - 2 Internal IDE/PATA Ports .  They don't say what the HDD capacity that is supported--might have to contact the company and ask.

You mentioned in your reply #6:


Quote:
USB 1.0   :P Slow...

You could add something like a IOGEAR GIC250U 5-Port USB 2.0 PCI Card (USB 2.0) to improve you USB use!

Just *food for thought*--I'm not recommending these particular items--I have no personal experience with these--just examples of what you could consider!

I have more to come later....!



Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 16th, 2011 at 3:01pm

Quote:
I bet the HDD is fine and not to blame!
WD Diagnostics reports no errors. It happily churned away for 2hrs on that drive from within the 'no drive access' DOS boot. Assumption that it used its own BIOS(direct) type access.


Quote:
You have always stated that the *DOS partition at the end of the 500 GB HDD did not show*--but how about the two NTFS partitions at the beginning of the HDD?
I thought I covered that but ya, with no intention of using those large partitions with ghost I might not have specified. The entire 500g drive is declared 'unallocated' with no trace of any partitions by DOS programs that do not have their own disk access technology.

So far, I am quite happy with the trials I have done using Terabyte's products. At present the only one I 'require' is IFD doing imaging/cloning to the large drive via BIOS(direct) but in future will probly be partitioning another drive via BootIt BM to follow Dan's advice not to use PM8 from within XP. 

Also, for now I will keep things simple and not take on new technology with Sata Raid or xtraIDE PCI cards. Great idea on the USB 2.0 PCI card NightOwl. That would be awesome.

In IFD I still did not learn how to clone/image data only without cloning partition size(Reply #31) but that is just me poking around, haven't read the guides yet. If I am cloning into unallocated space then I get to choose the new partition's size. But every time I need to regress to the 'mother' image the same issue will arise. So I have made all OS partitions the same size.

Packaging this project up as my tech time is drawing to a close. I now have a three XP system with one original install. Each OS is its own entity without cross boot config issues.

Now to read Dan's guides and learn the weaknesses in this setup.

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by Brian on Feb 16th, 2011 at 3:49pm

schmirk wrote on Feb 16th, 2011 at 3:01pm:
n IFD I still did not learn how to clone/image data only without cloning partition size

Brandon,

On the Options window (second last window in the IFD sequence) there is a Resize Partition field. This is present and usable whether you restore into a partition or into unallocated space. If you don't use this field the image restores to the same size as the source partition.

If you restore a Whole Drive image you don't get the Resize option but I don't think you are using Whole Drive images.

Any questions?

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by schmirk on Feb 18th, 2011 at 8:01pm
Thanks Brian, I see it now. The blank field with the min and max sizes on either side. Probly would have noticed if IFD pre-filled in the default value but I was assuming the receiving partition would be left alone by default.

Had a good read over at Dan's site. It is good to know more about the steps of the boot process, like exactly what MS is doing with the PBR on that c: drive. I like my setup for now but will be looking forward to a more robust multiboot with linux and other experimental technologies I might learn about while I wait.

Also, that is a pretty specific and involved guide for installing Ubuntu over on the Terabyte site. Will be sure to re-read that as part of my prep materials for my next tech season. As for now its time to get outside and get the garden tuned up before spring business sets in.

You all have been a great help and I really appreciate it.

Rad on!

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by NightOwl on Feb 20th, 2011 at 9:11am
@ schmirk


Quote:
for now I will keep things simple and not take on new technology with Sata Raid or xtraIDE PCI cards

Just to be clear--you can add HDDs to those cards as simple single HDDs--you do not have to create a RAID array--it's just an option.


Quote:
Packaging this project up as my tech time is drawing to a close.

Sorry if we are going to *loose* you--be sure to come back any time to visit and share!

I am going to post one or more posts regarding some of yours and other's previous information that I did not understand.  If you happen to have the time to contribute or clarify--please do.


Quote:
You all have been a great help and I really appreciate it.

It's been a pleasure!

Title: Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Post by NightOwl on Feb 20th, 2011 at 10:07am
@ Dan Goodell


Quote:
Just to add my two cents to the discussion . . .

You're too modest!  I think you're probably adding *16 billion terabytes* worth of *sense* to the discussion!


Quote:
Device ID:                      1
Device Capacity:                16889331826771721 MB
Serial Number:                  WD-WCASY9555336
Model Number:                   WDC WD5000AAKB-00H8A0
Firmware Revision:              05.04E05
Partitions:
    J:                          213998 MB
    Q:                          244998 MB
    R:                          17924 MB

etc.


I can't speak for others, but with many of these HDD reports showing the details--my mind turns to *mush* and I just fail to focus on the meaning of the numbers!  But when you point out the details--of course, it's so *obvious*--but, I sure couldn't *see* it!


Quote:
Reply #9:  "Ghost 2002"
Just as an aside, in other threads we've determined Ghost 2003 had a disk size limit around 1TB, so does anyone know what Ghost 2002's limit is?  schmirk's problem occurs irrespective of Ghost, so there's obviously something else going on, but I wonder if the Ghost version will also ultimately be a factor.

I can not recall ever seeing any reports regarding Ghost 2002 and its HDD size limit.


Quote:
Reply #9:  "I am aware of the process and would use PM8 in XP..."
Yikes!!  Never use PM8 from Windows!  That's asking for trouble.  It's a great utility when used from DOS, but never use it from Windows.

Hmmmm....I've used PM8 regularly in Windows....knowing that there were possible issues--but, I have to say in its defense--I've never had a bad result!!!  I always create a Ghost backup image before doing anything significant!  And, I've never done anything to my active OS HDD--it's always been HDDs that are secondary or on other secondary controllers.  Have always booted to DOS PM8 (and earlier versions) for anything to do with the active OS HDD--but still make backup images before using it, even in DOS!


Quote:
After all, the BIOS is using 240 heads, so we know it's not a standard BIOS.

I have questions regarding this statement--but, in another post that's forthcoming!


Quote:
It might also be helpful to know exactly how (what tools) you created and formatted the partitions on the 500GB disk.  You mentioned "the reformat is still young", which I assume means the exact procedure will still be fresh in your mind.

Did we get an answer to this?  I'll have to continue reading the replies to see--was it PM8?!  And, was the same tool used for all formatting and partitioning--there seems to be reports of different *head* counts depending on the HDD--how is that possible on the same system--if using the same tools.........??????  More on that in that forthcoming post!




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