I have been running Ghost 10 backups on a Windows XP Me system using two Western Digital SE 1 TB drives for some time now, over a year at least. I alternate drives periodically, moving one off-site.  Suddenly when I rotated drives I got error EC8F17B7 with the message "Canot create recovery point for job...the internal structure of the image file is invalid or unsupported." I found a lot of information here about such problems, but I've tried everything recommended without success.
'

More information: I ran chkdsk /r on all drives, ran the WD diagnostics on my drive which doesn't work, tried independent backups, reformateed the WD drive, etc.  All my disks have 0 bad sectors.  The only copy I succeeded in getting was of a small partition with almost nothing in it.

I switched back to my 'good' WD drive and everything works. And yet the 'bad' drive writes files just fine, and I can see it writing the Ghost files up to about 53GB or so before the  backup aborts. 

I have to conclude there must be something gone south in the 'bad' WD drive, but I surely don't see it.  The 'good' and 'bad' WD SE drives were purchased close to the same time, etc.  Any ideas?  Thanks for any help, I'm running out of thoughts on this...

@ Scamper


Scamper wrote on Nov 5^th, 2011 at 8:44pm:

I have to conclude there must be something gone south in the 'bad' WD drive, but I surely don't see it.

I note you have formatted the partition on the USB external HD. One thing worth trying is deleting the partition on the USB HD and creating a new NTFS partition. We've see this work on problematic USB HDs. Good luck.

Thanks, a good suggestion, I will give it a try!!

I deleted the drive partition, repartitioned and reformatted it. Tried Ghost again, same failed result.  I then tried Ghost with 'ignore bad sectors' checkied. Same failed result. I am now running it with Verify unchecked, and I suspect it will work. But even if it does, I don't have much confidence in the backup if it can't pass the verify.

The only other thing I can think of to do is do a diskcopy of the WD SE Element drive that works and then try it. 

Anyone have any other ideas?  Since the other drive works, this problem doesn't seem to point to anything going on with the computer itself - especially since both drives worked until recently. 

@ Scamper

I didn't appreciate Verify was failing too. So Verify fails and Imaging fails on one external HD.

These pages weren't written for Ghost but the information is relevant to your situation. Ghost is OK, the external HD and/or its cable/USB interface are not OK.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=350

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=152

Thanks for the links. Actually, I suspect it is only the verify that fails since yesterday I completed a backup with verify not checked (ie requested no verification).  I don't think it is the cable because I'm using the same cable on the drive that works and the drive that fails. Also the same USB port.  So I'm puzzled why this drive fails when it passes every WD and Windows disk test in flying colors with no bad sectors, etc.

I feel I can eliminate the computer-related indicators such as BIOS, memory, etc. since the backup works on the other identical model drive and did work on this drive until recently.  So one could guess there must be some hidden 'weak sectors', whatever on earth that is - how is it the manufactor's disk utility (WD) wouldn't detect them?

I have 2 things I can think of to try. Now i'm creating a disk image of the 'good' drive and will restore it to the 'bad' drive and try it.  If that doesn't work, I'll at least try the drive for backup on another computer (though it does not have Ghost and I won't put it on that computer - I'll just use Windows 7 backup).   

If anyone can think of anything else, I'm all ears - and thanks for the help you've given me.  If none of the above helps and no other ideas surface, I'll just have to remove this disk from Ghost backups.

@ Scamper


Quote:

the backup works on the other identical model drive and did work on this drive until recently

That's the *puzzle*--it was working fine in the past--and, it passes all diagnostic tests.

One thing--it's a long shot, but when you delete partitions and re-format a HDD, unless you specifically do a specific type of *wiping*, the HDD's master boot record (MBR) is not deleted and then re-initialized.  It is untouched by *normal* formatting tools.

Until you zero out the MBR and then start fresh, you may have something in that MBR area that is somehow interfering with the HDD's function(s) that is effecting the Ghost backup and verification.

Again, it's a long shot, but I always zap the MBR on a used HDD before putting it back into service if, for any reason, I'm not sure of the HDD's status.

I haven't done that before - how would you zap the MBR in Windows 7 Pro?

@ Scamper


Quote:

how would you zap the MBR in Windows 7 Pro?

Win7 probably does not have any *native* program that will allow you to do a *boot track* wipe of a HDD.

What's needed is a *hex editor* program--also called *sector editor*, or a program that will specifically wipe the first 63 sectors of a HDD (the boot tract--absolute sectors 0 thru 62)--that wiping effectively makes a HDD appear as if it just came from the factory--i.e. no partitioning data, no formatting, and no other boot track viruses or other data placed there by various programs--depending on what you have used and installed over time.

Here's a Windows based *sector editor* (Roadkil's Sector Editor) that would allow you to look at, and edit any sector(s)--see here for discussion (these may or may not be useful--but gives a flavor of what can be done):

Invalid Partition Offset Error during Integrit

Erase DiskID on external USB drive

Another hex editor I've used is Tiny Hex Editor 1.0.0.6

You can use these tools to just *look* if you wish--you don't have to actually edit or modify anything!

Warning:  If you do edit your HDD--you have to be comfortable that you have identified the correct HDD before you execute the *edit*--or run the program--if you select the wrong HDD, you're in a whole lot of hurt!  Having a valid Ghost backup that you know you can restore can save your proverbial *butt* in these situations!

Other links:

Looks like Roadkil also has a disk wiping program--I've not used it, so I can not say for sure if it wipes the *boot track*--but, I suspect it does:  Roadkil's Disk Wipe

Ghost 2003 has it's own disk partitioning tool called *GDisk*.  It has a *wipe* function.  It can not be used to wipe just the first 63 sectors--it's designed to wipe the whole disk.  But, if you start it, and then cancel the operation, it will have wiped the first *x* number of sectors, starting at the beginning of the HDD--so it will have effectively *wiped* the boot track sectors.

You could probably use that same technique with the Roadkil Disk Wipe program.

Inspect with a sector editor to make sure a given wipe program has *zeroed* the first 63 sectors--some *wipe* programs don't!


MBR Tools from *The Starman*

Scroll down to #5, the *Zap63* listing--that may be a useful tool.

Just to add to NightOwl's list, you can use the "clean" command in Diskpart to zero the First Track on that USB HD.

   1. Plug in your USB HD (to Win7 computer)

   2. Open a command prompt as administrator (Right click on Start > All Programs > Accessories > Command Prompt and select “Run as administrator”

   3. Find the drive number of your USB HD by typing the following into the Command Prompt window:

      diskpart
      list disk

      The number of your USB drive will be listed. You’ll need this for the next step. I’ll assume that the USB HD is disk 2.

   4. Format the drive by typing the following instructions into the same window. Replace the number “2” with the number of your disk.

      list disk    (already done)
      select disk 2
      list disk    (to confirm. There will be a Star next to the selected disk)
      clean
      create partition primary
      select partition 1
      active
      format fs=NTFS quick
      assign
      exit

      

@ Brian


Quote:

Win7 probably does not have any *native* program that will allow you to do a *boot track* wipe of a HDD.

Quote:

you can use the "clean" command in Diskpart to zero the First Track on that USB HD.

Ah, good to know!  Thanks Brian.

I've not used Diskpart--so did not know Win7 had that ability.  Much easier than previous versions of Windows!

@ NightOwl

You can use Diskpart to put Win7 or Ghost 15 on a USB flash drive. Handy if you want to install Win7 on a Netboot that doesn't have an optical drive..

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dd535816.aspx

http://krisrowland.wordpress.com/2008/09/26/boot-norton-ghost-14-srd-from-a-usb-stick/

Diskpart in WinXP doesn't work with USB drives. You need Win7 Diskpart.

@ Brian


Quote:

Diskpart in WinXP doesn't work with USB drives. You need Win7 Diskpart.

I guess I didn't know Diskpart was on WinXP either!  I thought that was a Vista and Win7 program. 

Can a copy of Win7 Diskpart work on WinXP?

@ NightOwl


NightOwl wrote on Nov 9^th, 2011 at 4:54pm:

Can a copy of Win7 Diskpart work on WinXP?

I just tested and it won't run at all in WinXP.

Reporting in, and I think I am close to the end of my options.  I used Reflect to create a cloned image of my "good" WD drive, the one that works in the Ghost backup, to the "bad" drive, the one that appears healthy but won't do a Ghost backup with a verify checked.  It took forever, but the price was right with Reflect, free, LOL. Then took the clone (the "bad" drive) and tried to run Ghost with verify.  Nope, still failed. 

The Western Digital SE warranty is one year, and I'm just past that. In a way I'm relieved because I cannot imagine trying to convince them the drive is defective.  I'm still not sure it is, and I'm thinking of running a backup of my Windows 7 computer with the Windows 7 standard backup to see if it works.

But first I will try the diskpart clean command as suggested. I am not familiar with this command.  Here's what I did, please tell me if it is correct:
1. Mounted drive on Windows 7 computer (as N drive).
2. Got in a cmd line window and switched to n drive.
3. Executed 'diskpart clean'.
Is that all I have to do, or do I need to repartition and format also, first, etc?  This is my final test (except for running a windows 7 backup) and I want to be sure I do it correctly.

I am now mostly consumed by curiousity - I'm well beyond the hundred bucks it would take to replace te drive, LOL, in time expended trying to force Ghost to use the drive.

@ Scamper

Looking at the DiskPart command sequence: 


Quote:

4. Format the drive by typing the following instructions into the same window. Replace the number “2” with the number of your disk.       list disk    (already done)       select disk 2       list disk    (to confirm. There will be a Star next to the selected disk)       clean       create partition primary       select partition 1             active       format fs=NTFS quick      assign       exit

It looks like you should have a single partition created and formatted as a NTFS file system that uses the whole HDD.

You should probably disconnect the USB HDD, and then reconnect it to see that Win7 mounts it correctly.

Then, see if it works with Ghost!

(As an aside--if you did the DiskPart up to the *clean* command, then do the *exit* command--you could use one of the *Sector Editing* tools to look at the first 63 sectors of the HDD to see if they in fact have been *zeroed*.  Then go back to DiskPart and do the last three commands to create and format the partition.  Or, you could probably also go the *Disk Management* and do the partition creation and formatting there.)

I didn't see the detailed instructions for diskpart in replay #10, thanks. (I am confused about how to read threads here, I think.)  Am following them (carefully!) now. Afterwards will try Norton one more time!

@ Scamper


Quote:

I didn't see the detailed instructions for diskpart in replay #10, thanks

I wondered about that.  Your reported sequence:


Quote:

1. Mounted drive on Windows 7 computer (as N drive). 2. Got in a cmd line window and switched to n drive. 3. Executed 'diskpart clean'. Is that all I have to do, or do I need to repartition and format also, first, etc?  This is my final test (except for running a windows 7 backup) and I want to be sure I do it correctly.

didn't seem to match Brian's suggested sequence.

But, there's more than one way to reach the same endpoint in Windows!

Nope, 'my' way didn't work.  It appeared to work, but when I did it Brian's way I got confirming messages, LOL. I admit I was VERY nervous with the disk number selection thing, had a horror of wiping the wrong disk.  Discovered the diskpart detail option that gave me the drive letter for the disk, which gave me the comfort I needed to proceed.  So now, one more time, I am running Ghost on the cleaned and formatted disk to see what happens!!  It takes forever to fail, so I won't know until late in the afternoon.

Off topic but some further instructions on Diskpart. You can change the OS partition size by running Diskpart from a Vista/Win7 DVD or from a WinPE CD.

list volume (shows all the partitions, on all the HDs. Each has a number. The Win7 DVD is Volume 0)
select volume 1 (selects my Win7 partition)
list volume (for confirmation. There will be a Star next to the selected volume)
shrink desired=5000 (the 5000 refers to how many MB will be removed from the partition size)
extend size=6000 (the 6000 refers to how many MB will be added to the partition size)
extend (the partition will fill the unallocated space following the partition)

Some limitations. If the partition includes unmovable files (such as the page file or the shadow copy storage area), the volume will shrink to the point where the unmovable files are located. Diskpart can't Slide (Move) a partition.

Hint.. when booting from a Win7 DVD press Shift F10 at the "Install now" screen to get a command prompt.

Brian wrote on Nov 9^th, 2011 at 1:26pm:

Just to add to NightOwl's list, you can use the "clean" command in Diskpart to zero the First Track on that USB HD.    1. Plug in your USB HD (to Win7 computer)    2. Open a command prompt as administrator (Right click on Start > All Programs > Accessories > Command Prompt and select “Run as administrator”    3. Find the drive number of your USB HD by typing the following into the Command Prompt window:       diskpart       list disk       The number of your USB drive will be listed. You’ll need this for the next step. I’ll assume that the USB HD is disk 2.    4. Format the drive by typing the following instructions into the same window. Replace the number “2” with the number of your disk.       list disk    (already done)       select disk 2       list disk    (to confirm. There will be a Star next to the selected disk)       clean       create partition primary       select partition 1       active       format fs=NTFS quick       assign       exit

D ::) ::) ::) 8-)
HEY, ALL, THIS WORKED, WOO-HOO!  Ghost 10 just finished the backup successfully with verify turned on and ignore bad sectors turned off - the first time since I started this process.  THANKS A BUNCH, YOU GUYS ROCK!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

@ Scamper

Excellent news.

NightOwl, good call.

@ Brian

Hey, beers all around!

As I said, *a long shot* suggestion--wish I had some specific reason for what happened to that HDD--but.....apparently it's working now.

Thanks for the DiskPart info.

@ Scamper

Congratulations on your follow through on troubleshooting your HDD problem!

Saved you $100 on replacing a bad HDD, but I can't help you with the $1000 worth of lost personal time put in to find a solution--oh, the joys of playing with computers!!!!

I guess you have to chock it up to a *learning experience*, and now you know more about HDDs than you probably ever wanted to!