Radified Community Forums
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
Rad Community Technical Discussion Boards (Computer Hardware + PC Software) >> Norton Ghost 2003,  Ghost v8.x + Ghost Solution Suite (GSS) Discussion Board >> Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1321767917

Message started by NightOwl on Nov 19th, 2011 at 11:45pm

Title: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by NightOwl on Nov 19th, 2011 at 11:45pm
To all

I have never installed Win7 to a wiped or new HDD using the default Win7 installation process--which would install a SRP (System Reserved Partition)--I have always had the HDD pre-partitioned to avoid an SRP (System Reserved Partition).

So I don't know the answers to these questions:

1.  What file system is used for the SRP--NTFS, FAT, or some other new and strange designation for the file system type?

2.  If anyone knows (Brian?!  ;) )--how does the SRP show up in the DOS Ghost interface--1:1 if it's a NTFS partition?  And, the OS partition would be 1:2? Or.......?

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Dan Goodell on Nov 21st, 2011 at 7:26am
The SRP is a regular NTFS partition.  It isn't "hidden" or otherwise masqueraded, but the contents of the partition are evidently discrete enough for Win7 to refrain from giving it a drive letter.  When you boot through the SRP to its associated Win7, the OS partition gets the letter C: and the SRP has no drive letter.

When you mount the same HDD in another host system, however, both partitions will get drive letters (in whatever fashion that host system typically assigns drive letters), and you can open and browse the SRP like any regular NTFS partition.  This proves it isn't hidden, doesn't have a munged descriptor in the partition table, and evidently doesn't have a non-standard partition boot sector, either.

That's good news because it means mainstream partition imaging tools shouldn't have any trouble handling it.

In my Ghost 2003 the partitions show up as:
  1:1 [System Reserved] NTFS drive
  1:2 [] NTFS drive


A couple other notes:

By default, the Win7 installation process labels the partition "System Reserved", but the label appears to be noncritical.  It can be changed or removed and doesn't affect whether Win7 recognizes the partition as its SRP.

The files and folders within the SRP have their "System" and "Hidden" attributes set, so they won't appear in Windows Explorer and the partition will appear to be empty.  Reset the attributes, though, and they'll show up.



Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Rad on Nov 21st, 2011 at 8:50am
I knew Dan would know.

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by NightOwl on Nov 27th, 2011 at 10:02pm
@ Dan Goodell

Thanks for the explanation--thorough as always!


Quote:
It isn't "hidden" or otherwise masqueraded

The reason I thought it might be something *unusual* is that I tried to follow Brian's outline as to how to remove the SRP (I was helping a friend who has a new Toshiba Satellite model A665-s5199X 16" HD LED Laptop), and I could not get Disk Management to do his first step:


Quote:
First, we have to unhide the SRP.

In Disk Management, right click the SRP, click Change Drive Letter and Paths..., click Add, dot in Assign the following drive letter, click the drop down arrow and select P ,  click OK.

It wouldn't respond. 

Maybe Toshiba has somehow changed the SRP so it can not be accessed as outlined by Brian.

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Dan Goodell on Nov 28th, 2011 at 6:21am

NightOwl wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 10:02pm:
Maybe Toshiba has somehow changed the SRP so it can not be accessed as outlined by Brian. 

I suppose it's possible.  If you still have access to the laptop, can you check the type descriptors in the partition table with ptedit32?  (Note: to run ptedit32 in Win7, you have to right-click the executable and "Run as administrator".)  In a normal Microsoft-style installation, both the SRP and OS partition should be type 07.

FWIW, I'll note there is some precedence for a manufacturer masquerading a partition and still being able to boot through it.  That's what Dell did on their XP-era computers, using the Dell Utility partition to display the Dell EULA the first time it was booted after taking it out of the box.  Dell has been using that little trick for nearly a decade, so I wouldn't think it unusual for other manufacturers to do something similar, either then or now, for their own purposes.

I wouldn't think there would be any point to masquerading the SRP, unless it was integral to something like their factory recovery scheme.  I don't know how Toshiba's factory recovery utility works, but I wonder if they've made the SRP do double-duty as the launcher for the factory recovery utility.



Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Nov 28th, 2011 at 10:32pm
@ NightOwl

This might work on your friend's computer. I just ran it and it worked for me. The SRP was assigned a drive letter.

Boot from an Active@ Boot Disk. The SRP was assigned C: drive by Active@.
Copy the Boot folder and bootmgr from the SRP to the Win7 partition.
Boot from a BIBM CD. In Partition Work delete the SRP but don't tick Clear Boot Sector in case you want to Undelete it. Unlikely.
Click View MBR and set the Win7 partition Active.
Select the Win7 partition and click BCD Edit. I only needed to edit the Windows Boot Manager.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=492

Boot into Win7.

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Nov 30th, 2011 at 1:24am
@ NightOwl

Another method hot off the press. 3 minutes old. It is done completely from BIBM and doesn't use any drive letters.

Use Scripting to....

Copy the Boot folder and bootmgr from the SRP to the Win7 partition
Delete the SRP
Set the Win7 partition Active
Exit to Partition Work
Run a BCD Edit

It doesn't take long.


Edit... Scripting ends when you exit to Partition Work.

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Nov 30th, 2011 at 3:49am
The scripting can be automated. I used the following script on a BIBM CD.



Code:
mount 1: 0 0x01
mount 2: 0 0x02
2:
MD boot
1:
copy boot\* 2:\boot
copy bootmgr 2:
umount 1:
del partition 0 0x01
umount 2:
set part active 0 0x02

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Dan Goodell on Nov 30th, 2011 at 4:13am

Brian wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 1:24am:
Use Scripting to....

Copy the Boot folder and bootmgr from the SRP to the Win7 partition
Delete the SRP
Set the Win7 partition Active
Exit to Partition Work
Run a BCD Edit


Brian, are you saying the BCD edit is part of the script?  I don't see that in Reply #7.  Or am I misreading the script?





Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Nov 30th, 2011 at 4:22am
Dan,

No, the BCD Edit is not included. I'll have to see if I can script that.

I ran the first script from a BIBM USB flash drive. Really, it is easier to type the lines individually but I just wanted to see if it worked. The first thing to do in scripting is

list hd 0

With a USB flash drive, hd 0 is the flash drive so I had to try
list hd 1
list hd 2
list hd 3

With the flash drive, Win7 was listed as on hd 3 (three HDs in the test computer) so the first line was
mount 1: 3 0x01

From the BIBM CD, Win7 was on hd 0.

Any suggestions for the BCD script?

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Nov 30th, 2011 at 1:40pm
I inquired about scripting a BCD Edit in BIBM and was advised, "it’s just registry entries, but you have to know which GUID goes to what". So for the time being I'll stick with the standard BIBM BCD Edit which only takes me 30 seconds.

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Dec 1st, 2011 at 4:11pm
The process is reversible. Say you decide later you would like to use BitLocker.

From a BIBM disk, undelete the SRP and set it Active. That's it. No BCD Edit is needed. The Boot folder and bootmgr can be deleted from the C: drive at your leisure.

The script does come in handy when you are doing this multiple times.

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Dan Goodell on Dec 2nd, 2011 at 3:28am

Brian wrote on Dec 1st, 2011 at 4:11pm:
The process is reversible. Say you decide later you would like to use BitLocker.

From a BIBM disk, undelete the SRP and set it Active. That's it. No BCD Edit is needed.


But that should only work if you haven't reused the SRP's disk space for another purpose.  If you deleted the partition but left the space dormant, it stands to reason that you can undelete it and the original "SRP+OS" BCD configuration will still be there.  The "OS-only" BCD edit was made to the BCD copy duplicated into the OS partition, so the original BCD copy in the the SRP is still intact and unchanged.

But why would a user delete the SRP and leave the disk space unallocated?  That feels like leaving a job half done.





Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Dec 2nd, 2011 at 1:29pm
Dan,


Dan Goodell wrote on Dec 2nd, 2011 at 3:28am:
But why would a user delete the SRP and leave the disk space unallocated? 


I'm with you and this is what I could add to the script.

slide 0 0x02 0 /a=2048

Or create a DOS partition in the space. But I've seen comments about just leaving the unallocated space as is because "it's only 0.01% of my HD".

One side effect I've noticed with the TBOSDT scripting method is you lose the Win7 loading screen, the one with the 4 glowing coloured squares. It reverts to the Vista type screen with the horizontal scrolling green squares. The Win7 loading screen can be restored by using this in Windows.

bcdboot %WinDir% /l en-US

If you copy the booting files from the SRP to the Win7 partition in Windows or a WinPE you don't lose the Win7 loading screen. Strange.

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Dec 2nd, 2011 at 8:12pm
Interesting. If you use this script from a BIBM CD a BCD Edit isn't needed. Win7 boots after exiting BIBM.


Code:
mount 1: 0 0x01
mount 2: 0 0x02
2:
MD boot
1:
copy boot\* 2:\boot
copy bootmgr 2:
umount 1:
del partition 0 0x01
umount 2:
set part active 0 0x02
slide 0 0x02 0 /a=2048

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Dan Goodell on Dec 3rd, 2011 at 11:42am

Brian wrote on Dec 2nd, 2011 at 8:12pm:
If you use this script from a BIBM CD a BCD Edit isn't needed.

Interesting.  Evidently, the slide must trigger a programmatic BCD edit.

Did you note the BCD setting before and after running the script?  Was it set to "{boot}"?  Or to "HD 0, Partition 2"?  I wonder if it makes any difference what it started off with.  (My guess is, probably not.  If sliding triggers BIBM to do its own BCD edit, it should be able to take into account the deleted partition-1.)



Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Dec 3rd, 2011 at 1:55pm
Dan, I did look at that. No values were set to {boot}. When the SRP was present the Windows Boot Manager/Device value showed

HD: 0
Partition: System Reserved

Partition Work showed two partitions
System Reserved
MBR 1

After using the script, the Windows Boot Manager/Device value showed

HD: 0
Partition: MBR 1

(none of the others was {boot})


Edit.... With a SRP present I set Windows Boot Manager/Device, Windows Memory Diagnostic/Device, Windows 7/Device and Windows 7/OS Device to {boot}. Then ran the script.

Windows 7/Device now showed

HD: 0
Partition: MBR 1

Windows 7/OS Device, Windows Boot Manager/Device and  Windows Memory Diagnostic/Device still showed

{boot}

Win 7 booted fine.

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Dan Goodell on Dec 3rd, 2011 at 6:30pm
Ah, I see we think alike!  That second part--presetting it to {boot} and seeing if it stayed {boot}--was going to be my next question.



Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Dec 3rd, 2011 at 7:03pm
Win7 with a SRP again. I set all four values to {boot} and ran the script without the Slide line. All four values in the Win7 partition were {boot} and Win7 booted. No BCD Edit was needed.

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Dan Goodell on Dec 4th, 2011 at 3:02am

Brian wrote on Dec 3rd, 2011 at 7:03pm:
Win7 with a SRP again. I set all four values to {boot} . . .

Wait, run that part by me again . . . you set the SRP active, the BCD in the SRP to {boot}, and Win7 booted?  I thought {boot} was just shorthand for the active partition, but pre-script the OS partition isn't active.  So how does the BCD in the SRP know that {boot} refers to partition-2 in that scenario?

I can understand Win7 booting after running the slide-less script (because post-script the OS partition is the active partition), but I would not have guessed Win7 would have been bootable pre-script (because at that point the active partition and the OS partition weren't one and the same).




Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Dec 4th, 2011 at 3:40am
Dan,

I've just started to run that test again. We may be using different terminology on {boot}. I'm taking it from this context.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=492


Quote:
Generally, you should have {boot} selected in the upper Type drop-down list.  In this case, the lower Type drop-down list will be unused and inaccessible.  However, if necessary, you may use the upper Type drop-down list to select the hard drive number on which the BCD file resides (i.e. the hard drive where the file bootmgr can be found).

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Dec 4th, 2011 at 4:06am
I restored a Win7/SRP entire drive image. Win7 booted normally. Both Windows 7 BCD Edit entries were

HD: 0
Partition: MBR 1

Windows Boot Manager and Windows Memory Diagnostic were

HD: 0
Partition: System Reserved

I then edited all four items to {boot}

I tried to boot Win7 but it booted into a Startup Repair which I cancelled. Consistent with your comment. I realized I hadn't tried to boot Win7 at this stage in my previous test.

The script was run without the slide line. I then booted from a BIBM CD again and checked BCD Edit on the Win7 partition. All four items were {boot}. Win7 booted normally.

I know. It's a little different from the previous test but a BCD Edit wasn't needed after the script. But it isn't a practical method because I had to do a BCD Edit before the script. May as well have done the edit after the script.

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Dan Goodell on Dec 4th, 2011 at 3:53pm

Brian wrote on Dec 4th, 2011 at 4:06am:
I restored a Win7/SRP entire drive image. Win7 booted normally.
[...]
I then edited all four items to {boot}

I tried to boot Win7 but it booted into a Startup Repair which I cancelled.

Okay, that's what I would have expected.  Changing BCD to {boot} would have caused the BCD to look for Win7 on the SRP instead of Partition-2.




Quote:
The script was run without the slide line. I then booted from a BIBM CD again and checked BCD Edit on the Win7 partition. All four items were {boot}. Win7 booted normally.

That also makes sense.  Without the slide, you don't trigger BIBM to reedit the BCD, so all entries in the BCD should be exactly as they were pre-script.  And the {boot} reference now works because the active partition and the Win7 partition are now one and the same.

Adding a slide to the script seems to trigger an automatic BCD edit, whether it's needed or not.  So while {boot} could have still been valid post-slide, BIBM changed it regardless, using the HD-number/MBR-entry style of referring to the OS partition.  It appears BIBM, when left to figure it out for itself, will always use that type of reference instead of the alternatives, {boot} or HD-number/partition-name.

Thanks for clarifying the test results.  It all makes sense now.




Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Dec 5th, 2011 at 2:32pm
I've worked out why I was seeing the Vista type loading screen after running the script. I wasn't copying the sub-folders in the Boot folder. The following line works and I now see the Win7 loading screen.

copy boot\* 2:\boot /s

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Dec 5th, 2011 at 6:32pm
I'm pleased this test is over. The latest script (which auto starts) on a TBOSDT USB flash drive is..


Code:
exec image.exe /r /uy /d:d3 /f:d2@0x01:\IFWBU\Windows7IFD\SRPBasicWin7\srpwin7
mount 1: 3 0x01
mount 2: 3 0x02
2:
MD Boot
1:
copy Boot\* 2:\Boot /s
copy bootmgr 2:
umount 1:
del partition 3 0x01
umount 2:
set part active 3 0x02
slide 3 0x02 0 /a=2048
resize 3 0x02 /a=2048
reboot


A Win7/SRP entire drive image is restored. (As soon as the restore commences the flash drive can be withdrawn.) After the restore has completed the SRP is removed, a slide and resize of the Win7 partition takes place and Win7 boots.

The entire process only takes 8 minutes. 3 minutes for the restore and 5 minutes for the SRP removal section. Most of the 5 minutes is for the slide.

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Dec 8th, 2011 at 2:00pm
The SRP can be removed in Windows without assigning a drive letter to the SRP. This can be done with tbosdtw.exe. This can...

copy the booting files from the SRP to the Win7 partition
set the Win7 partition Active
delete the SRP
perform a BCD Edit

Win7 boots at the next restart and all that remains is dealing with the 100 MB of unallocated space. But this can be at your leisure.


Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by Brian on Dec 9th, 2011 at 2:36pm
To remove the SRP in Win7...

Create a temporary folder called SSS in the C: drive
Copy 1.cmd, 2.run, tbosdtw.exe and bootitbm.ini into SSS

1.cmd contains


Code:
@echo off
reg unload HKLM\BCD00000000
CD \SSS
tbosdtw 2.run
bcdedit /store c:\boot\bcd /set {bootmgr} device partition=c:
bcdedit /store c:\boot\bcd /set {memdiag} device partition=c:
pause


2.run contains


Code:
list hd 0
mount 1: 0 0x01
copy 1:Boot\* C:\Boot\ /s
copy 1:bootmgr C:\
umount 1:
set part active 0 0x02
del partition 0 0x01
list hd 0 /f /u /a=2048


Run 1.cmd as an Administrator
Delete SSS

Title: Re: Win7 's SRP (System Reserved Partition) and Ghost 2003
Post by NightOwl on Dec 16th, 2011 at 1:08am
@ Dan Goodell and @ Brian


Okay, so I've been busy and let this one slide for awhile:


Quote:
If you still have access to the laptop, can you check the type descriptors in the partition table with ptedit32?  (Note: to run ptedit32 in Win7, you have to right-click the executable and "Run as administrator".)  In a normal Microsoft-style installation, both the SRP and OS partition should be type 07.

All of this took place back in August--so, no I don't have the laptop anymore--and that SRP is also *history*.


Quote:
I wouldn't think there would be any point to masquerading the SRP, unless it was integral to something like their factory recovery scheme.  I don't know how Toshiba's factory recovery utility works, but I wonder if they've made the SRP do double-duty as the launcher for the factory recovery utility.

Interesting thought--or maybe the SRP was not the boot partition at all....here's what happened...

After reaching the point where I could not gain access to the SRP in order to attempt to copy the one file and the one folder (bootmgr file and Boot folder--see Brian's outline as to how to remove the SRP ) to the OS partition, I was looking around for some way to get around this when I noticed that the OS already had those two items in the root directory!

Well, I had already made the factory recovery DVD set to restore the system back to the *factory fresh* state--and we had a Ghost image file of the SRP and the OS--so I says to myself--*damn the torpedoes--full speed ahead*, and I proceeded to follow the rest of the steps:


Quote:
Restart the computer with a BING CD in the drive.
In BING (Partition Work), delete the SRP.
In BING, do a BCD Edit on Win7.


And, then I did a *slide* of the OS partition using BING to recover the old SRP space.

Worked like a charm--booted without any issues.

So, thinking back--why would Toshiba have that folder and file already on the OS partition--maybe the SRP wasn't really the *SRP*, but rather the Toshiba Utility partition!

Now, I'm sure my friend still has that original Ghost image file--so when I have the chance, I'll restore that *SRP* and OS partition to a spare HDD, and check the type descriptors in the partition table with ptedit32.

Radified Community Forums » Powered by YaBB 2.4!
YaBB © 2000-2009. All Rights Reserved.