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Message started by henriette on Jul 15th, 2012 at 9:59am

Title: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by henriette on Jul 15th, 2012 at 9:59am
Hiya  :)

Using Ghost 2003 - 2 set boot floppies (CD/DVD) > DOS.

Tried to create a *whole-drive-image* to an external 1TB HDD (USB 2.0).

Although I know that Ghost 2003 has a 1TB limit: I tried. Ghost did not recognize the HDD.

Is there any chance to make a ~900GB partition on that 1TB HDD, so that Ghost would recognize it THEN ?  ;D
I don't think so.  :(

I will return the 1TB HDD [$120,-!!! < *ongoing flood excuse  ::)] to Amazon, ordered *Intenso Memory Station 750GB external, 2.5", USB 2.0* instead.

The external HDD will be for *whole-drive-images* ONLY, and big enough for 4 images. Will delete the oldest from time to time to make room for a new one.
>>> One never knows when a *whole drive image* is needed!

I truly hope that Ghost will recognize the 750GB HDD this time ...!
[HDD is FAT32 formatted. Will format NTFS. Any idea how much will be left ?]

Today I copied (!) a *whole drive image* (created yesterday to my 2nd internal HDD) to a 400GB external HDD.
Then deleted the above image from 2nd HDD (only enough free space for one *whole drive image*).

henriette *trying can't hurt*


Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by NightOwl on Jul 15th, 2012 at 10:34am
@ henriette


Quote:
Using Ghost 2003 - 2 set boot floppies (CD/DVD) > DOS.

Tried to create a *whole-drive-image* to an external 1TB HDD (USB 2.0).

Although I know that Ghost 2003 has a 1TB limit: I tried. Ghost did not recognize the HDD.

The 1 TB limit is not the problem here!  It's DOS and USB external HDDs!  DOS does not have *native* support for USB functions.  You have to add (load from boot disks or discs) separate drivers that are able to see USB controllers, and mount USB external drives which then presents the USB HDD to DOS for use!

(Ghost 2003's 1 TB size limit is in regards to the size of the HDD that you want to back up--Ghost 2003 has a limited capacity of *addressable memory space*--if a HDD is larger than 1 TB--then Ghost 2003 runs out of available *filing space* to keep track of that larger amount of addressable memory space on the HDD!)

There are DOS USB drivers available.  But, those drivers were developed before the current *huge* HDDs were available!  So, the DOS USB drivers have a size limit that prevents them from working correctly--usually get a error saying something to the effect of a *divide by zero* overflow and will often *freeze* the system. 

I've been meaning to do some testing to find out what the size limit on USB external HDD that the DOS drivers have--but have not found enough free time to do it just yet--stay tuned--it's coming!

You can *work around* that DOS driver limitation if you have a system that will boot from a USB device--such as flashdrives, or USB external HDD's (the BIOS has to support this)--you just make the *huge* USB HDD DOS bootable (FAT32 file system), put your DOS boot files on the HDD, and boot from the USB HDD.  This will then boot to DOS, load Ghost or whatever, and the entire *huge* HDD will be available to store Ghost images, or whatever.......!

I can walk you through the steps if you want to do so......I'm currently using a 750 GB Sata HDD hooked up to a USB 2.0 adaptor to do just what I just described--been working fine!  Using it on laptops that do not have a second HDD for Ghost image storage--but the laptops are perfectly happy to boot from the external USB HDD--i.e. that's supported by the BIOS--note:  older computers (desktops or laptops) might not support booting from USB devices!


Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by henriette on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:31am
@ NightOwl

I returned the external 1TB HDD usb 2.0 today.
Had ordered *Intenso Memory Station 750GB external, 2.5", USB 2.0* instead. Probably delivered Tue/Wed.

Will the 750GB be recognized by Ghost 2003 & work as it did today with the 400GB (see report below) ?
I truly hope so  :)

--->>> This a.m. I tried the external 400GB usb 2.0:

> Ghost 2003 boot floppies > Source 1 (= whole drive HDD0)

{source 3 = usb HDD - needed for restore FROM external HDD, to new HDD}.

> local - disk - to image
... takes time ...

> "3:1 usbCopy (= vol) NTFS drive"

> filename "TotMain" (= TotalMainHDD0)
... takes time ...

> Size: 142288MB | speed: 64MB/min | RemTime ~35hrs  ;D

[whatelse would I expect from usb 2.0].

----> creating to internal HDD takes 2hrs.

> aborted after 1%.

IT WORKS  ;)

I assume that you refer to external HDDs equal/bigger than 1TB, as you wrote:


Quote:
You can *work around* that DOS driver limitation if you have a system that will boot from a USB device--such as flashdrives, or USB external HDD's (the BIOS has to support this)--you just make the *huge* USB HDD DOS bootable (FAT32 file system), put your DOS boot files on the HDD, and boot from the USB HDD.  This will then boot to DOS, load Ghost or whatever, and the entire *huge* HDD will be available to store Ghost images, or whatever.......!

I won't use any external HDDs equal/bigger than 1TB for *whole drive images*. Will just take 400 GB + 750GB (whatever maybe left after formatting NTFS).

My BIOS *Phoenix Award BIOS 6.00PG*

There are several options for 1st, 2nd, 3rd boot device:
For example > "USB-HDD", "USB-FDD" - I never tried those options, though.

Which option exactly would I need ? I will have a look if option available - just let me know. ... I'm no good at *new* BIOS settings without having explained  :D


Quote:
note:  older computers (desktops or laptops) might not support booting from USB devices!

FYI: I have no laptop.

My BIOS should work with the options - IF EVER NEEDED, don't you think ?

henriette  :)

Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by henriette on Jul 16th, 2012 at 10:01am
Addition:

Why not create *whole drive images* to my 2nd internal  HDD > then copy to external HDD usb 2.0 - ALWAYS ?

Reason for asking: copying takes 2:45 instead creating 35hrs!

Note: Compared size + #s of files w/original. Matches.

Any argument against it ?

henriette  :)


Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by Prozactive on Jul 16th, 2012 at 4:52pm

NightOwl wrote on Jul 15th, 2012 at 10:34am:
@ henriette
(Ghost 2003's 1 TB size limit is in regards to the size of the HDD that you want to back up

@NightOwl:
Pardon me if I'm mistaken, but as I recall from the multiple long technical discussions on various threads here, the 1 TB size limit applies to the destination HDDs as well. Offhand, I can't recall if it also applies to the source HDDs. There was some outstanding technical issue regarding NTFS vs. FAT32 formatting which I can't remember the details of right now, but it was something pending that I've never had the time to follow up on.

Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by NightOwl on Jul 19th, 2012 at 12:32pm
@ Prozactive


Quote:
Pardon me if I'm mistaken, but as I recall from the multiple long technical discussions on various threads here, the 1 TB size limit applies to the destination HDDs as well. Offhand, I can't recall if it also applies to the source HDDs.

Here's the thread:  Ghost 2003 Destination Drive Size Limits?

I have *misspoken*  :-[  .  Unfortunately, not an uncommon thing for me--getting worse as the years go by  ;) !


HateTheSnow wrote on Sep 30th, 2009 at 3:42pm:
two situations recently where the "desired" destination drive was an internal 1.5TB SATA drive, but it didn't show up in the list of available drives when running Ghost 



HateTheSnow wrote on Sep 30th, 2009 at 3:42pm:
What strikes me as strange is that the same 1.5 TB drive can be selected as a "source" drive.



HateTheSnow wrote on Oct 2nd, 2009 at 2:42pm:
A positive note here is the backup image of the 1.5 TB drive ran flawlessly.

Unfortunately, the author did not identify where the image was stored, i.e. the destination HDD--but I assume it was the 1 TB HDD previously mentioned--or some other drive !?

And: 


HateTheSnow wrote on Oct 2nd, 2009 at 2:42pm:
I think the restore will be the true test since Ghost appears to have issues with destination drives >1TB. I've read in the past the imaging and restoring processes are handled quite differently by Ghost, so hopefully it will work. If not, with storage needs and drive sizes continuing to grow as they do, that's going to be a pretty big Achilles heel for all of us who have relied on 2003 for so long.

The 1 TB drive I was using previously to store images should be back from Seagate in about 1-2 weeks, so I'll attempt a restore to the 1.5 TB drive when it arrives. Naturally, I'll post the results.

Unfortunately, the author did not report back if he did the tests, and what the results were!.

So......the thread was really only about the 1.5 TB HDD not showing as a possible *destination* HDD.  Whenever Ghost 2003 doesn't show a HDD as either a *source* or *destination* HDD--you have to think there is a compatibility issue (? size limitation).

When I re-read the thread multiple times--the report of the drive size having a *negative* value--apparently was not really a *limitation*: 


HateTheSnow wrote on Oct 1st, 2009 at 3:55pm:
The last bit of info I have is that I started a job on my system to create an image of the 1.5 TB drive to one of the other drives. I let it run for about 15 minutes, but stopped it since I didn't want to wait 4-1/2 hours for it to finish. Everything appeared to be working properly, except the disk size for that drive was showing as -666352 MB...yes, that's a negative number.


and


HateTheSnow wrote on Oct 2nd, 2009 at 2:42pm:
A positive note here is the backup image of the 1.5 TB drive ran flawlessly.

So, even though the 1.5 TB HDD was reported with a negative number for it's size, the image creation worked fine--something that I did not pick up on when this was first discussed.

Now, thinking about it--Dan Goodell's explanation:


Dan Goodell wrote on Oct 2nd, 2009 at 10:05am:
((1.5*10^12 - 2^40) - (2^40))/(2^20) = -666640

Internally, the program must use a 41-bit signed integer.40 bits can represent a number up to 1,099,511,627,775 which is 400,488,372,225 short of 1,500,000,000,000.So the signed number rolls negative to -1,099,511,627,776 and counts back up to -699,023,255,552 bytes (or -666,640 MB).

Note that 40 bits goes up to about 1.099 TB before jumping negative, which probably explains why your 1.0 TB drive works.

Reading real slowly, it really doesn't show why this works!  It is not a limitation--the negative number is regarding the 1.5 TB HDD (the source HDD)--but Ghost is apparently more than happy to back it up--just not use it for a *destination* HDD--and that *negative* number had nothing to do with the *destination* HDD--it was regarding the *source* HDD--and Ghost backed it up successfully! 

Just a thought--negative numbers are unique just as much as positive numbers--maybe the size limit is 1.099 TB times 2--i.e. 1.099 TB positive numbers and then 1.099 TB negative numbers--so the source HDD doesn't flip back over to positive numbers until it counts back down to *zero* from the negative side--does that make any possible sense?!

Bottom line--I don't think we have a *definitive* answer regarding *size limitations* for Ghost and HDD's--it appears that the *destination HDD can be up to 1.0 TB (probably 1.099 TB), but we don't know what size limit there is on the *source HDD* side of things--just shows as a *negative* number when doing the backup if it's over 1.099 TB.

(Running out of space--will continue in next post.)

Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by NightOwl on Jul 19th, 2012 at 12:36pm
@ Prozactive

(continuation of previous post:)

--so my statement to henriette:


NightOwl wrote on Jul 15th, 2012 at 10:34am:
Ghost 2003's 1 TB size limit is in regards to the size of the HDD that you want to back up

is inaccurate!  But, my original statement:


NightOwl wrote on Jul 15th, 2012 at 10:34am:
The 1 TB limit is not the problem here!  It's DOS and USB external HDDs!  DOS does not have *native* support for USB functions.

is accurate!  Except it appears that henriette's system BIOS is mounting her 400 GB external USB HDD for DOS access!:


henriette wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:31am:
--->>> This a.m. I tried the external 400GB usb 2.0:

> Ghost 2003 boot floppies > Source 1 (= whole drive HDD0)

{source 3 = usb HDD - needed for restore FROM external HDD, to new HDD}.

> local - disk - to image
... takes time ...

> "3:1 usbCopy (= vol) NTFS drive"

> filename "TotMain" (= TotalMainHDD0)
... takes time ...

> Size: 142288MB | speed: 64MB/min | RemTime ~35hrs

[whatelse would I expect from usb 2.0].

It appears that the 400 GB USB HDD is being mounted and run at USB 1.x speed, and not USB 2.0 speed!

I'm out of time for now--will come back and comment more on this later!

Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by NightOwl on Jul 19th, 2012 at 12:40pm
@ henriette


henriette wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:31am:
--->>> This a.m. I tried the external 400GB usb 2.0:

> Ghost 2003 boot floppies 

Could you open *config.sys* and *autoexec.bat* on the first boot floppy using Notepad--and post their content here so we can see what boot files are being loaded.

Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by henriette on Jul 21st, 2012 at 11:17am
@ NightOwl

Quote:
Could you open *config.sys* and *autoexec.bat* on the first boot floppy using Notepad--and post their content here so we can see what boot files are being loaded.


Here we are ---> attached

henriette  :)
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=CONFIG_SYS_Ghost2003BootFloppy.txt (0 KB | 237 )
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=AUTOEXEC_BAT_Ghost2003BootFloppy.txt (0 KB | 240 )

Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by NightOwl on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 9:23am
@ henriette

So, those boot files confirm that you are *not* loading any DOS USB drivers for external USB HDDs.

The Ghost 2003's Boot Wizard has the option to include its version of DOS drivers for USB 1.x or 2.x--so I wanted to make sure you had not checked the boxes that have to do with that.

So, it's your BIOS that is making your external HDD appear--but at USB 1.x speed.

There are the Ghost 2003 DOS drivers available to try--but they have limited compatibility especially with newer USB controllers and USB drives--or there are the Panasonic USB DOS drivers available--they are newer and have wider compatibility.  So, if you want to pursue that, I can help.


Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by Tator on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 1:51pm
If you don't get the usb2.0 drivers to work in Ghost 2003, you might consider using Seagate Discwizard instead of Ghost which is what I did when I encountered similar problems.  Seagate Discwizard is a free download, compresses image files more than Ghost 2003 thus using less storage space and is faster than Ghost 2003.  I've come to prefer Discwizard over Ghost for these reasons.

Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by NightOwl on Jul 24th, 2012 at 10:43pm
@ Tator

http://www.seagate.com/files/www-content/support-content/downloads/discwizard/_shared/docs/dw_ug.en.14382.pdf


Quote:
Copyright © Acronis, Inc., 2000-2011. All rights reserved.
“Acronis” and “Acronis Secure Zone” are registered trademarks of Acronis, Inc.
"Acronis Compute with Confidence", “Acronis Startup Recovery Manager”, “Acronis Active Restore”
and the Acronis logo are trademarks of Acronis, Inc.

For the record--Seagate Discwizard = Acronis backup software

Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by henriette on Jul 27th, 2012 at 11:17am
NightOwl wrote reply #9 - 23.07.12 at 16:23:52


Quote:
you are *not* loading any DOS USB drivers for external USB HDDs ... Ghost 2003's Boot Wizard has the option to include its version of DOS drivers for USB 1.x or 2.x--so I wanted to make sure you had not checked the boxes that have to do with that ... So, it's your BIOS that is making your external HDD appear--but at USB 1.x speed.

The external HDD = old 400GB, *guy#7* gave it to me. Built in a case > probably SATA w/USB cable.


Quote:
There are the Ghost 2003 DOS drivers available to try--the Panasonic USB DOS drivers are newer and have wider compatibility.  So, if you want to pursue that, I can help.

I'd be very grateful if you did  :-*

Tator wrote reply #10 - 23.07.12 at 20:51:03


Quote:
you might consider using Seagate Discwizard = Acronis backup software instead of Ghost

I'm afraid, my Ghost images would be for the birds if I used another software  :(

henriette 

Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by Brian on Jul 27th, 2012 at 3:33pm
@ henriette


henriette wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 11:17am:
I'm afraid, my Ghost images would be for the birds if I used another software


Why are the old images important to you? I can understand the most recent may be used but ones from a few months ago will never be used. But if you want to restore an old image you don't need Ghost 2003 installed on your system. Your floppy disk will do the job.

As you are imaging from boot media there would be no issues with using multiple imaging applications. You don't have to exclusively use Ghost.

Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by henriette on Jul 29th, 2012 at 6:31am
Tator Reply #10 - 23.07.12 at 20:51:03


Quote:
Seagate Discwizard

Now, there are different versions for different HDD brands!
e.g: for Seagate + Maxtor HDDs only.
Different version for WestenDigital = WD Edition
If you have other brands (HDD), Seagate Diskwizard wouldn't recognize the HDDs.

I did s quick search & found *Acronis True Image Home 2012*:

http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/index_gwo.html?utm_expid=4274314-6&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.acronis.de%2Fhomecomputing%2Fproducts%2Ftrueimage%2F#overview

Seems to be okay. -> Restore with CD!

I will never ever trust in a cloud based image! You never know when the server is down, not mentioning the security.

On the other hand there are _on quick reading_ many other ways of creating & restoring.

Most important to me are the facts:
It's also in German, German support & website!

I don't know whether the other backup possibilities of that above *Acronis True Image 2012* find your positive 'reaction'.
Please let me know.

Regarding the manual that NightOwl posted in Reply #11 - 25.07.12 at 05:43:24

... doesn't tell which version it is, nor is there anything mentioned about what brands of HDDs are supported.
Sounds good, though! (did a quick-read).

As far as the 2 above backup software are concerned, apparently DOS is out  :-? -- please correct me if I'm wrong.

Brian wrote Reply #13 - 27.07.12 at 22:33:57


Quote:
I can understand the most recent [images] may be used . But if you want to restore an old image you don't need Ghost 2003 installed on your system. Your floppy disk will do the job.*
As you are imaging from boot media **there would be no issues with using multiple imaging applications. You don't have to exclusively use Ghost.

* + ** Have to wait for NightOwl's Ghost-driver-solution (USB)

WOW, Brian, that knocks my socks off, again - and it's great to hear that  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Found also *Paragon Backup & Recovery 2012 Free* :
http://www.paragon-software.com/home/br-free/features.html

----> 1GB space needed  :o

! mixed up posts & threads here. Backup software was mentioned, though - hence I inserted links!

henriette


Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by Tator on Jul 30th, 2012 at 8:54pm
FYI Seagate Discwizard will work with any brand harddrive by using the work around at http://forums.seagate.com/t5/DiscWizard-and-MaxBlast/Using-DiscWizard-MaxBlast-to-back-up-non-Seagate-internal-hard/m-p/25406 .  I've used Discwizard many times, and it's not failed to work regardless of harddrive brand.

Also Discwizard may be installed with its BartPE plugin which will allow you to include Discwizard into a BaftPE CD which may include other utilities in addition to using Discwizard for creating and restoring images on a bootable CD and thereby eliminate the need to have separate boot CDs for separate utilities.

Title: Re: Ghost 2003 + 1TB limit
Post by NightOwl on Aug 6th, 2012 at 10:01am
@ henriette


henriette wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 11:17am:
Quote:

There are the Ghost 2003 DOS drivers available to try--the Panasonic USB DOS drivers are newer and have wider compatibility.So, if you want to pursue that, I can help.

Quote:
I'd be very grateful if you did

Well, based on this thread: 


henriette wrote on Aug 2nd, 2012 at 11:59am:
I prefer IFL now.  (added by NightOwl:  IFL = Image For Linux by TeraByte)

Sounds like you have a *new love*!  (Poor old Ghost 2003--just can't get any respect anymore!)  Until further notice, I will assume you are not interested in Ghost 2003 DOS USB drivers and their use.






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