To All

Well, the end is drawing nigh:  Windows XP SP3 and Office 2003Support Ends April 8th, 2014

I tried to install Win7 on a new system a couple years ago when my old computer system went belly up.  But, I ran into several issues early on, tried to Google how to deal with them, and could not find any readily available solutions.  I was not in a good place mentally at the time for extended troubleshooting, so threw in the towel, and reverted back to what I knew best--WinXP (turns out the worst of the problems was present with a fresh install of WinXP as well--this is a whole other thread--how does one keep track of all the little tweaks you perform during the life of a hardware system and software OS so you can revisit them if need be in the future?  I now know that I do not remember an awful lot of them  ;) --somehow I had dealt with the problem on my old system, but could never find the solution to apply to the fresh install of WinXP ).  But, long story short--I never went back to Win7.

Anyway, with the demise of WinXP support on the visible horizon now, I guess it's time for me to  upgrade to at least Win7 (can't go to Win8--just don't see that as a good option for now!).  (Okay, I know some of you are rolling around the floor, laughing out loud at my *early adopter* attitude--see NightOwl rocking back and forth mumbling "change is good, change is good"--it's really me--I did not see any new abilities that were *must have* that WinXP couldn't provide.

So, in preparing to upgrade to Win7, I'm thinking about changing to a SSD on my system.  Now, I thought I had been keeping track of references to SSD on the forum here (I keep an ongoing text file of links of interest so I can refer back to it without always having to *search* for old treads), but, turns out I have been tracking lots of Win7 threads, but not so much the SSD threads.

So, I need to decide first what flavor SSD I should get.  Then I have questions about best way to setup Win7 on the SSD, and I have various questions about how best to set up multibooting and how different OSs on the same system interact with each other and the SSD drive.

So, anyone with suggestions at which SSD they would recommend and why, I'd like to hear what you have to say.  But, I will ask Brian directly because I know he has SSDs and has been dealing with them for the last couple years:


Brian wrote on Aug 6^th, 2013 at 3:15am:

A friend has ten different SSDs. He says they are all "the same" and to buy the cheapest one. I'm not sure about that. I have Intel 520 series drives and my neighbour has Samsungs. We are pleased with our choices. I'd expect a 120 GB SSD would be quite large enough for you as you only need to put OS on the drive. You can put your data on a HD.

And earlier in that same thread, reply #20, you said:


Quote:

I bought my first SSD (120 GB) over a year ago and installed it into a Dell computer bought in 2006 (SATA II MB). I built my current computer in November last year. Asus Sabertooth MB, 16 GB RAM, 240 GB SSD.

I'm pretty sure the 120 GB SSD is an Intel 520.  Based on what you said above, do you only have Intel 520 drives?


Brian wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 10:27pm:

used Shopbot to compare prices but I wanted an Intel 520 Series 120 GB SSD. My second choice would have been a Samsung 830. I was told to avoid OCZ as they have a reputation for developing problems.

Is your neighbor's Samsung the 830 model?

Did some Goggle searches and ran across this report:  Top 5 solid-state drives: It's upgrade time

Looks like the current Samsung model is the 840 and Intel did not make it onto his *top 5 list*.  Looking elsewhere, I see that Intel's most recent model is now the 530.  And, I'm seeing reference to *enterprise-grade double data protection* vs *consumer-grade SSD*--but, I don't see where one can determine which SSD falls into which category--and if those two categories are truly important or not.

Looking at the NewEgg website to compare:  Compare SSD Products

I see that the Samsung 840 has two different units--the EVO and the Pro Series, and *Memory Components* are either TLC or MLC--what's the difference, and does it matter?

So, anyone who has any suggestions as to how to wade through all the options (other than size and price) to figure out what would be the best options to consider--please offer your input.....

@ NightOwl

My SSDs are Intel 520 series and my friends have Samsung 830s. The Intel software seems more reliable than Samsung Magician but the software isn't essential.

Regarding Multi-Booting. Put as many OS on the SSD as you like. In any order. They will be independent. See the BIBM section in this page for how to install the OS.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/index.htm

I suggest a 240 GB SSD rather than a 120 GB. They are slightly faster and aren't double the price.

Here is a brief thread on SSD choices...

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=356984

In your Newegg page, I'd buy the Intel 530.

A better choice would be http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167177

as it also contains..

    2.5" to 3.5" Adapter Bracket & Screws
    SATA Data Cable
    SATA Power Cable
    User's Manual & Driver Disc

This Topic was moved here from YaBB Forum Software + Rad Web Site by NightOwl.

Oops!  Started this in the wrong board!

I've got two 250GB Samsung 840 EVOs, but only 6 mos. on them so no idea yet on how well they'll stand up over time.  I put one in my old, slow netbook, and it turned it into a reasonably usable laptop!

As I understand it, the principle difference between TLC and MLC is longevity--the way the memory cells are rewritten suggests MLC will theoretically last longer than TLC.

But I don't have a real grasp how that translates into real world use.  TRIM and overprovisioning might even go a long way toward minimizing the differences.  It could be a lot like looking at MTBF numbers for spinning disks--one may be theoretically superior by the numbers, but we all know any of them can (and do) die whenever they feel like it, regardless of the numbers.  So until I've had enough experience with SSDs to see a definite pattern I, like Brian's friend, am choosing not to pay extra for differences which may only be theoretical.  IOW, cost-wise, capacity seems more worth paying for than MLC vs. TLC.

I agree with Brian--if you have a machine that will take multiple drives, use the SSD just for your OSs and put your data on a large HDD.

Both my SSDs (the netbook and my work-a-day laptop) are multibooting DOS/XP/7/8.  I've noticed XP boots somewhat faster on the SSD vs HDD, but 7 and 8 now boot a lot faster since switching them to the SSD.  Not sure why that is, but the change is much more noticeable with 7/8 than it is with XP.

I measured some OS loading times (BIBM Boot Menu to network icon visible on the desktop).

WinXP HD               32 secs
WinXP SSD             19 secs

Win8.1 HD              27 secs
Win8.1 SSD            11 secs

Each XP and 8.1 was a clone of the other. XP is an old installation. 8.1 is a fresh installation. Restoring an 8.1 image to the SSD takes 57 secs and to the HD takes 83 secs. (using IFW in another Win8.1 OS)

Brian's numbers correlate with my seat-of-the-pants impressions.  On his system XP boots 68% slower on the HD vs SSD, while W8 boots 145% slower.  Thus, the SSD vs HD difference is much more dramatic with 7 or 8 than it is with XP.

Not sure why that is, but with XP on its way out it's probably not worth puzzling over.  7/8 also works better with SSDs because of native support for TRIM and SSD-friendly sector alignment, so it's probably time to consider an SSD a must-have, no-brainer upgrade if you're still using spinning disks.



Edit: here are my HD vs SSD boot times (in secs):

XP*: 70 vs 38  (HD 84% slower)
W7: 41 vs 17  (HD 141% slower)
W8: 27 vs 9  (HD 200% slower)

(* XP is a well-worn installation with lots of stuff on it, so not as fast as it could be.)

long time absentee....

my SSD is only 60 gb, currently its my first boot device, gpt uefi, very fast booting Windows 8.1 64, but filling up quickly! (a basic install with pagefile and hiberfil enabled and a few utilities takes up >20 gb)

I have two MBR drives, mainly stuffed with music and videos, each has Win 7 on it's first partition (one is 64 bit and the other 32 bit)

I'm thinking about converting my largest HDD to gpt and cloning my efi system partition and the MSR from my ssd to it, and setting the hdd as my boot device, enabling me to delete the efi system partition and the MSR off my ssd, freeing up a few hundred mb

how much will it slow down my boot if i booted my ssd off the efi system partition on my hdd ?


thanks in advance

Chris
---

Chris,

Interesting. If you move your EFI and MSR to another drive I'd expect Win8.1 will not boot.

Moving those folders will give you about 230 MB of free space. I'm sure you would rather reduce your C: drive used space by many GB.

Firstly, how much RAM do you have? What is the size of your pagefile?

What is the size of the Win8.1 partition? How much used space is present?

Chris,

You haven't identified your system, but if your BIOS supports MBR (aka, "Legacy") booting as well as EFI, then IMHO a much more practical approach would be to convert your SSD from GPT to MBR and forget about EFI altogether.  That will allow you to simply dump the EFI and MSR (SRP), as well as all those other EFI-related partitions.

(You don't mention whether your Win8.1 is a retail or factory install, but if you also have a manufacturer's recovery partition the chances are it will be useless once you start tinkering with the partition layout, so it won't be worth trying to salvage.)

Converting an existing OS partition from GPT/EFI to MBR is not that hard once you understand the principle.  The OS partition itself is essentially the same regardless of whether it's GPT/EFI or MBR, and the only real difference is in how you get it to start booting.  That's where all those other partitions come in, whether it's an EFI boot or MBR boot (with or without a SRP).  To make an OS partition on a MBR-type disk bootable, you just need to copy to it the boot files and build a BCD for it.

I have done the conversion on several systems--usually to facilitate multibooting or custom recovery strategies.  In a nutshell, the basic overview is:

• make an image backup of the Win8 OS partition;
  
• wipe/reinitialize the SSD as an MBR disk;
  
• restore your image backup to the SSD;
  
• make it bootable by adding boot files and building a new BCD.

Make sure your BIOS is set to boot in "Legacy" mode instead of EFI, and Win8 should boot up just like it always has.

Obviously, whatever tools you employ should be able to recognize both GPT and MBR-style partition layouts.  My favorite for imaging and/or partitioning is BIBM (Terabyte Boot-It Bare Metal).

I'm not sure if BIBM can help with that last step (Brian would probably know), but the repair can always be done manually or if you prefer, automatically with a Macrium boot CD.  Download and install Macrium Reflect for free, use it to create a rescue CD, then boot from that CD, click "fix boot problems", and it will take care of copying the boot files and building the BCD.

As Brian intimated, just getting rid of the EFI stuff may still not give you as much room as you'd like, but he's waiting for more details before giving you specific suggestions.  You may want to consider moving your Documents/Pictures/Music folders from the SSD to the HDD, if you haven't already done so.

Dan,

A few comments while we are waiting to hear from Chris. TeraByte has a tutorial on GPT to MBR conversion but your method is much easier.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=580

I'd really like to hear a "Dan Goodell" overview of UEFI. That would be great.

I use my computer for multi-booting so I installed all OS in MBR mode. My son doesn't use multi-booting so I installed his Win8 in UEFI mode, mainly to see how it worked. I have a test computer with about 25 entire drive images (MBR and UEFI) that I can auto-restore in 2 to 3 minutes. A different form of multi-booting.

I started a thread about restoring UEFI Win8 images using various imaging apps, to a new, empty HD  and there were a few apps that couldn't do it. Surprising. It turned out to be a very informative thread.

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/failed-uefi-restores-to-a-new-hd.373634/

Brian wrote on Feb 24^th, 2015 at 8:49pm:

I'd really like to hear a "Dan Goodell" overview of UEFI.

Well, I have no particular experience with UEFI so don't think I can offer anything enlightening.



Quote:

TeraByte has a tutorial on GPT to MBR conversion but your method is much easier.

There are two significant differences between Terabyte's method and mine.

First, the Terabyte method seeks to change the partition scheme without destroying the OS partition.  My method just blows it away and restores it from a backup.

Second, the Terabyte tutorial attempts to keep the Windows Recovery Environment.  I don't.

The WinRE is essentially a Microsoft-style dual-boot, using the BCD to either boot the OS or to alternatively boot into a recovery "partition" in the event the regular OS partition won't boot.  (I use the term "partition" loosely because it's not actually a physical partition, the RE is instead a .wim file that is loaded and operated like a virtual machine when it's needed.)

Personally, I find the WinRE more trouble than it's worth, so I usually dispense with it.  Implementing the WinRE demands a Microsoft-style dual-boot, which as you know, I abhor for a number of reasons.  Besides, it doesn't do anything that can't be done by booting from a Windows installation DVD.  Sure, for the rare time you need the RE, it's a tad less convenient if you have to boot a DVD, but for me that one pro doesn't outweigh all the cons.

Furthermore, I always multiboot my systems and I find much of what the RE might be needed for can be done from an alternate booted OS anyway, so I've seldom even needed to resort to booting a Windows DVD to repair a malfunctioning OS.



Quote:

I started a thread about restoring UEFI Win8 images using various imaging apps, to a new, empty HD  and there were a few apps that couldn't do it. Surprising. It turned out to be a very informative thread.

Yes, quite an interesting thread.

I don't find the lack of widespread success that surprising, though.  Remember, we've had similar trouble in the past when new ...uh, partition "variations"... have been introduced.

Note that the new EFI systems use standard partition formats but have their "type" indicators munged.  The EFI partition, for example, is FAT16 but instead of "06" (the standard indicator of a FAT16 partition) it is now "EF".   But it's not like we haven't seen that before.

For example, compare this to the decades-old Dell Utility partition or the XP-era Dell Restore partition.  Both were ordinary FAT16/FAT32 partitions but Dell tweaked their partition table entries to look like they were non-standard partition types so utilities would leave them alone.  The result was many cloning/imaging tools (including Ghost and Acronis) appeared to work but actually didn't because they were somehow confused by the odd partition descriptors.  I don't necessarily think the authors of those programs were confused, my guess is the source of the failures probably owes more to some particular library or libraries the authors may have employed to develop those programs, and some unwitting assumptions about what is "standard" made by the developers of those libraries.

And don't forget how several Windows-based imaging and partitioning utilities (including Acronis) got tripped up because they relied on Windows API calls that themselves could be confused by non-Microsoft partition descriptors--such as this one I documented some time ago, yet which still exists to this day in Win8.

So I'm not at all surprised some programs don't work correctly.  It will take time for vendors to fully vet the parameters of when their programs do and don't work.  And as I said, it's not going to be enough to just audit their own code because some problems could be stemming from code they didn't write that's locked up in some third-party library they happen to be relying on.

Wow! glad to have sparked a debate! I've been shuffling some big files, moving them off my HDD so that I could clear it and reinitialize it as GPT

I used Acronis True Image to clone the 60Gb SSD to the 2TB HDD.  Everything OK so far, Win 8.1 boots fine off the HDD in UEFI mode, although somewhat slower

I then reinitialized the SSD as mbr, created a single partition, and restored an image of the OS to it (the image was taken from the SSD when it was gpt uefi), it now boots fine in legacy bios mode using the F12 boot menu

OK so far, but then I installed EasyBCD on the gpt uefi HDD, setting it as the first boot device, trying to boot the mbr SSD from a BCD boot menu, but it didn't work   :(
there seems to be a conflict between the settings shown in EasyBCD and those shown in the system configuration (msconfig), i'm wondering if I need to assign a drive letter to the efi system partition to help EasyBCD find the right BCD ?


Dan Goodell wrote on Feb 24^th, 2015 at 4:13pm:

IMHO a much more practical approach would be to convert your SSD from GPT to MBR and forget about EFI altogether.

Dan, I've bought this shiny new mobo with UEFI capability and i'm sure as hell gonna use it! (im stubborn like that)  ;)



Dan Goodell wrote on Feb 24^th, 2015 at 4:13pm:

You don't mention whether your Win8.1 is a retail or factory install, but if you also have a manufacturer's recovery partition

Dan, my Win 8.1 install was from an ISO chopped down with the free beta verion of NTLite, so no, I don't have a manufacturer's recovery partition which I can reclaim)


thanks

Chris
---

c_j_holt wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 7:52am:

I've bought this shiny new mobo with UEFI capability and i'm sure as hell gonna use it! (im stubborn like that)

Well, then, hats off to you for your perseverance!

I'm not going to be of much help, though, as I only use BIOS/MBR mode, even though my system does support EFI/GPT.

That, plus the fact you're trying to use a Microsoft-style multiboot (out of necessity because of EFI), and IMHO that's virtually guaranteed to cause headaches down the road.  I abhor Microsoft's pseudo-multiboot scheme with a passion--so much so, that I refuse to help anyone go down that road to ruin.

Hyperbole aside, though . . .

From everything I've read, trying to multiboot EFI boot and BIOS boot on the same system is asking for trouble.  I'm not exactly sure why . . . perhaps it has something to do with capabilities/limitations of the EFI partition.  I don't see why it would be a BCD limitation, and I don't think it can be a GPT-vs-MBR issue because Vista/7/8 have no trouble handling both types of disks in the same system, so it must be something with the actual boot hand-off itself, from MBR or EFI partition to the OS partition in question.

Dan,


Quote:

Second, the Terabyte tutorial attempts to keep the Windows Recovery Environment.  I don't.

I tried your method. Easy.

I can't recall the WinRE ever helping me. But I need the WinRE.wim to create IFW recovery media and I think some other imaging apps use it too.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/tbwinre_tutorial.htm

Using WinRE.wim to create the recovery media avoids having to download and install the 2 GB Win8 ADK.


Quote:

as I only use BIOS/MBR mode, even though my system does support EFI/GPT.

Me too. I wonder what we are missing? If anything. We can't boot from a drive larger than 2 TB but that isn't relevant if you have the OS on a SSD. We don't have Secure Boot but does it really matter?

Dan,


Quote:

I'm not sure if BIBM can help with that last step

No it can't do this because there is no BCD store.


But this worked using the IFW TBWinRE for all the steps below.
From a Command Prompt...
Use Diskpart to "clean" the disk
Restore the Win8 image
Restart the computer into TBWinRE again (MBR mode)
From a Command Prompt...
bootrec /rebuildbcd

Win8 boots in MBR mode.

Brian wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 3:36pm:

I need the WinRE.wim to create IFW recovery media and I think some other imaging apps use it too.

Interesting.  Hadn't thought of that benefit.  Do you need to keep the recovery partition with it, though?  Or can you just keep only the winre.wim file (in an archive or on an external disk, for example) and point the IFW builder to it when you need it?  From the TB tutorial it sounds like the builder will look for winre.wim in a few predesignated locations, but doesn't mention what your options are if it can't find it.




Quote:

I wonder what we are missing [by not using EFI]? If anything. We can't boot from a drive larger than 2 TB but that isn't relevant if you have the OS on a SSD. We don't have Secure Boot but does it really matter?

My thoughts, exactly.

Secure Boot should help prevent boot sector virus infections, but I can count one hand the number times that might have been useful to me in the past.  That is, exactly once.  And that wasn't the result of a hacker, it was the result of an overly arrogant company called Intuit and their TurboTax program, which they had purposely designed to modify the boot track for their own secret, copy-protection scheme.  (Needless to say, Intuit lost me as a customer for life with that debacle.)

I suppose Secure Boot could be beneficial to less careful, or less knowledgeble, users who might be more susceptible to malware.  Or who knows, Secure Boot may find it's true calling to be in helping block the overreach of the NSA.

I agree with you on 2TB boot disks.  I can't imagine going back to a non-SSD boot disk, and I figure it will be a l-o-n-g time before I'll have a SSD larger than 2TB so there's no incentive to switch to EFI.  There's no problem using GPT data disks with an MBR boot disk, so I can foresee using a combination of under-2TB MBR boot SSD with large GPT data HDDs for quite some time to come.

Dan Goodell wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 8:55pm:

Do you need to keep the recovery partition with it, though?Or can you just keep only the winre.wim file (in an archive or on an external disk, for example) and point the IFW builder to it when you need it?

After doing the GPT to MBR conversion I put a copy of winre.wim in C:\System32\Recovery and I could then create an IFW TBWinRE. I wasn't interested in getting the Recovery Environment working.


Like you, my MBR mode Windows OS are installed into a partition, not Unallocated Free Space, so there are no extra Microsoft partitions.

Repairing the Recovery Environment was easy. If you want to have it. WinRE.wim (extracted from an image backup) was copied to C:\Windows\System32\Recovery

From an Admin Command Prompt..

reagentc /disable
reagentc /enable

Fixed. C:\Recovery has been created. WinRE.wim has been moved from C:\Windows\System32\Recovery to C:\Recovery\WindowsRE

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=587

Dan Goodell wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 8:55pm:

Do you need to keep the recovery partition with it, though?  Or can you just keep only the winre.wim file (in an archive or on an external disk, for example) and point the IFW builder to it when you need it?

Aha, the TB tutorial in your last link (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=587) answers that question under the section "Unable to Build TBWinRE Boot Media". 

So you don't need to actually have Recovery installed on your system to create a TBwin boot iso.  One can archive the winre.wim file and pull it out whenever you need it.




Looks like that last link is good for building a Recovery Environment on the OS partition, ala the old XP strategy.  Maybe not as ideal (from a RE perspective) as having it on a separate partition, but better from an OS perspective in that it should permit a generalized BCD and avoids the inherent problems of imaging/restoring a Windows installation split across multiple partitions.

So adding RE to the OS partition restores some of the benefits without any of the downsides, and also wouldn't add much to the size of an image.  My policy has been to just forego the RE, but this may be worth rethinking my standard practice.

Dan,

I used a variation of your method where an image restore isn't required...

Boot BIBM
delete two partitions (MSR and EFI)
change Disk Type to MBR
set Win8 partition Active

Boot WinPE in MBR mode
bootrec /rebuildbcd

Boot into Win8

The following is optional if you desire a Recovery Environment.
the Recovery partition will have a drive letter. Say G:
copy G:\Recovery\WindowsRE\Winre.wim to C:\Windows\System32\Recovery
(I used TBOSDT as I couldn't do it from a Command Prompt)
from a Command Prompt
reagentc /disable
reagentc /enable

In Disk Management delete the Recovery partition.

All seems fine.

TeraByte now has a script called chgdtype.tbs. This can convert a UEFI Win8 to a MBR Win8 in 1 second. You run the script from BIBM boot media.

You can convert back to UEFI Win8 in 5 seconds. And back to MBR Win8 again in 1 second.

Have you tried it?  (I don't have any UEFI/GPT systems to test.)

I'm confused by what's actually being changed.  UEFI is an alternative to BIOS, while MBR is an alternative to GPT, so it seems like the terminology is being mixed up.

Is the script perhaps converting GPT to MBR and vice-versa?  And if so, I wonder what kind of MBR layout it creates when converting a GPT disk containing more than four partitions--like the configuration of some new OEM systems.

Dan,

I've tried it many times on my test computer.

Here are my partitions (Win8.1 OS installed in UEFI mode)...

Recovery         300 MiB
EFI                     99 MiB
MSR                 128 MiB
Win8.1         25000 MiB
Free Space 584952 MiB

I run the script from BIBM (you can run it from TBOS boot media too) and I get a MBR disk with these partitions...

Recovery         300 MiB
Free Space       227 MiB
Win8.1         25000 MiB
Free Space 584952 MiB

If I run the script again I get a GPT disk with these partitions...

Recovery         300 MiB
MSR                 128 MiB
Free Space        99 MiB
Win8.1         25000 MiB
Free Space 584852 MiB
EFI                   100 MiB

If you want to make it look neater you can copy (clone) the 100 MiB EFI partition to the 99 MiB of Free Space and delete the 100 MiB partition. Win8.1 still boots fine.

It is certainly a faster method than we've been using.

Another test...

Recovery         300 MiB
EFI                     99 MiB
MSR                 128 MiB
Win8.1         25000 MiB
Part1          100000 MiB
Part2          484952 MiB

Running the script creates a MBR disk with 4 primary partitions...

Recovery         300 MiB
Free Space       227 MiB
Win8.1         25000 MiB
Part1          100000 MiB
Part2          484952 MiB


If you want to run the script again (testing) you have to resize the Recovery partition smaller and you get...

Recovery         299 MiB
MSR                 128 MiB
EFI                   100 MiB
Win8.1         25000 MiB
Part1          100000 MiB
Part2          484952 MiB

Okay, so it's doing a GPT to MBR conversion.  I'm guessing you're also switching to/from UEFI vs BIOS/Legacy boot in your BIOS Setup?

It looks like the script is simply abandoning the GPT's EFI and MSR partitions when it does the conversion to MBR, and leaving the space marked as unallocated.

That means your experiment #2 didn't go quite far enough because there weren't more than four partitions left when those two were unallocated.  What if you split Part1 and/or Part2 to add a Part3 or Part4?  When EFI and MSR are abandoned that would leave more than four remaining partitions, and I'd be curious what the script does in that case.

I was wondering if the MBR->GPT reversion resurrects the abandoned partitions or creates them anew.  Your experiment #1 seems to establish that at least the EFI is created anew (because it's not in the same place), as well as confirming that partition order is not an issue on a GPT disk.

I don't think either the EFI or MSR partitions are very complicated, so I would guess it's not hard for the script to create them anew.  That's probably why it takes a few seconds longer converting in that direction.

In reply #23, what do you mean by, "If you want to run the script again you have to resize the Recovery partition"?  I see that the script wants 228 MB of unallocated space to work with, but what if you shrank Part2 instead of Recovery?  Experiment #1 implies that should work, as well.

Your experiments make me curious about a lot of questions.  Maybe I'll have to rebuild a GPT/EFI layout on a spare disk and try my own experiments.  Trouble is I only have one machine at the moment with a UEFI BIOS, and it's not a testbed machine.

Dan Goodell wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 4:50am:

What if you split Part1 and/or Part2 to add a Part3 or Part4?When EFI and MSR are abandoned that would leave more than four remaining partitions, and I'd be curious what the script does in that case.

I tried that. The script created an EMBR disk with 5 or 6 primary partitions. Win8 boots but fails to fully load. You see a BSOD. I didn't install BIBM but I think it would allow Win8 to load. Tomorrow I'll try it.


Dan Goodell wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 4:50am:

In reply #23, what do you mean by, "If you want to run the script again you have to resize the Recovery partition"?

The MSR and EFI wouldn't fit in the 227 MiB of Free Space. They needed 228 MiB of Free Space.


Quote:

but what if you shrank Part2 instead of Recovery?

Do you mean Win8.1? You would have to slide it too and that is time consuming..


Dan Goodell wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 4:50am:

as well as confirming that partition order is not an issue on a GPT disk.

In earlier restoring tests (unrelated to this script) I've restored the 4 partitions in random order and scattered them across the HD, separated by Free Space. Win8 still boots fine.


Quote:

I'm guessing you're also switching to/from UEFI vs BIOS/Legacy boot in your BIOS Setup?

I don't have to with my computers. Compatibility Support Module is enabled in the UEFI/BIOS so if I restore an Entire Drive image of a Win8 OS installed in UEFI mode it boots and if I restore an Entire Drive image of a Win8 OS installed in MBR mode it boots. Editing the UEFI/BIOS between OS isn't needed.

Similarly, in my boot menu I have MBR and UEFI choices on how to boot a USB flash drive. For BIBM I must choose MBR but for IFL I can choose UEFI or MBR. No editing the UEFI/BIOS between flash drives is needed.

I created extra partitions and converted GPT to MBR. An EMBR disk was created with 6 primary partitions. BIBM was installed but only 4 primary partitions are allowed in the partition table of the Boot Item. The other 2 partitions are "unusable" although you could have another Boot Item containing those partitions and omitting 2 others. Win8.1 loaded normally.

BIBM couldn't be uninstalled without deleting 2 primary partitions. Two partitions were deleted, BIBM was uninstalled and Win8.1 loaded normally.

I know why I got the BSOD mentioned above. It is repeatable. After restoring an entire drive image to get back to "normal" I must let Win8.1 load once into Windows. If I'm in a hurry and omit this step and do the GPT to MBR/EMBR conversion, I get a BSOD.

So, repeating the earlier test where I had extra partitions and finished up with an EMBR disk with 6 partitions. The Recovery, Win8.1 and 2 other partitions were inserted into the empty partition table (the script tells you it will be empty) and the Win8.1 partition was set active. Win8.1 loaded normally without BIBM being installed. The other 2 partitions were represented by Unallocated Space in Disk Management. This is standard for unlimited primaries on an EMBR disk.

Just messing around with Win10. I converted MBR to GPT. It took 1 second. You get a 3 partition system...

Win10
MSR
EFI

Recovery remains in the Win10 partition.