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Message started by Big_Al on Dec 15th, 2013 at 2:59am

Title: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Big_Al on Dec 15th, 2013 at 2:59am
                                     December 15, 2013



Guys/Gals,

   It's been a while since my last post and I've had a bunch

of changes in my computer.


My present setup:

Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit with an ASRock P67 PRO3 (B3) MoBo

that has a UEFI BIOS, Intel Core i5-2500K and 16 Gigs of

Corsair Vengeance RAM all in a Cooler Master HAF 932 case.

My C, D and E partitions are on a 120GB SSD NTFS with a MBR.

I installed Windows 7 on a pre-partitioned C, so no hidden

"System Partition".

My present STORAGE HDD is a 2TB Toshiba with MBR partitioned

this way:

F is      1.7 TB's Set As Fat32

G is        1 GB's Set As Fat32

H is        5 GB's Set As Fat32

I is        4 GB's Set As NTFS

J is       30 GB's Set As Fat32

K is       20 GB's Set As Fat32

L is       50 GB's Set As Fat32

M is       50 GB's Set As Fat32


I recently purchased a Toshiba PH3300U-1I72 3TB HDD

which I have yet to open until this issue is resolved.

The HDD HAS to be set as GPT to use all of the space.

It will be partitioned exactly as above except for the

F Drive.  It will be 2.63 TB's Set As NTFS.


I have been a Ghost user since version 6.

I now use it with DOS Bootable CDs (Thanks to NightOwl) I

make with custom Autoexec.bat files I write, never Windows.

My latest Ghost is v11.5.1.2269, which I found out from

Symantec has issues with GPT.

When I load my "Make C" CD, it loads Ghost, makes an image

of my C Drive and stores it on my E Drive as "Newest.gho".

It then CRC checks (verifies) the image and then (if the

image passes inspection) shows a black screen.

At that screen, I remove my Bootable CD and reboot into

Windows.

When I load my "Restore C" CD, it loads Ghost, goes to the

E Drive, finds "Newest.gho" and overwrites the C Partition.

If I want to clone a partition, I load my "Manual Ghost" CD,

it loads Ghost and I then select a partition on the "Source"

HDD and then find the proper sized empty partition on the

"Destination" HDD and tell Ghost to have at it.

If the source is Fat32 and the destination is NTFS, after

cloning, the destination is now Fat32.

Can ANY software do the above with a GPT disk as source and

an MBR disk as destination and vice/versa?


I await your reply.

Big Al

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Brian on Dec 15th, 2013 at 4:44am
@ Big_Al

I assume you would like to image/clone from a boot disk rather than from Windows. Image for Linux will work with your system. Don't be concerned about the Linux term. I use IFL to do my restores as it is very fast. Download the IFL GUI not the IFL CUI. You can create a CD or USB flash drive boot disk.

There is a 30 day trial...

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-linux.htm

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Big_Al on Dec 15th, 2013 at 11:38pm
Brian, funny you should mention TBU, as I sent an E-Mail to them and got this deal breaker line in their reply:

"However, we don't allow changing the backup files."

Another stranger statement:

"If your new drive uses 4K sector sizes you wouldn't need to have a GPT."

As my Toshiba PH3300U-1I72 has Advanced Format 512e, I E-Mailed

them back to explain since the whole web agrees that 3TB HDD's won't show past 2.1 TBs using a MBR.

I'll post their answer when I get it.

Big Al

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Brian on Dec 16th, 2013 at 12:57am
@ Big_Al



Big_Al wrote on Dec 15th, 2013 at 11:38pm:
"However, we don't allow changing the backup files."


I'll need the full context of the question to know what the answer means. Similarly for the GPT answer.


Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 16th, 2013 at 10:22am
@ Big_Al


Big_Al wrote on Dec 15th, 2013 at 2:59am:
I recently purchased a Toshiba PH3300U-1I72 3TB HDD which I have yet to open until this issue is resolved.

So, this appears to be a *theoretical* problem that you're concerned might happen--you haven't actually tried using that large HDD with imaging software as yet--correct?

Could you clarify what the *issue* is--I'm not sure I got the specific problem from your post?

Is it that older imaging software does not *understand* the GPT partitioning structure vs the old style MBR partition structure--and because of that the old imaging software can not create a GPT partitioned HDD if you want to transfer your data to a new *un-used* HDD?

Or, if once created, is it that the old imaging software can not create a partition image from a GPT partitioned HDD, and later restore that image to the existing GPT partition HDD--in other words the imaging software never has to manipulate the partition structure--just has to backup and later restore the data to an existing partition?


Big_Al wrote on Dec 15th, 2013 at 2:59am:
If the source is Fat32 and the destination is NTFS, after cloning, the destination is now Fat32.

Or, are you saying that the old imaging software is unable to restore the file system structure of the original source partition onto another partition that had been formated to a different file system than what's in the image file of the source?

Do you have links to other sources that have reported and discuss the problem(s) you are concerned with?


Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 16th, 2013 at 10:51am
@ Big_Al

Don't know if this applies, but looks like you have to make sure you have compatible hardware as well as OS, and looks like booting from a HDD larger than 2.19 TB is also an issue....looks like these issues are unrelated to any imaging software.....:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-performance/i-have-a-3-tb-drive-windows-7-ultimate-wont-format/b1cc3811-f25f-e011-8dfc-68b599b31bf5

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Big_Al on Dec 18th, 2013 at 12:11am
Brian:

From my original post:

My latest Ghost is v11.5.1.2269, which I found out from

Symantec has issues with GPT.

--------------------------------

I sent TBU an E-Mail that was almost a dupe of my original

post here with this added:

The image that Ghost makes can have ANY file deleted OR added

to the image using "Ghost Explorer" and will restore as if

it were never touched.


My full exchange with TBU....

Yes, it supports GPT partitioned drives.
If your new drive uses 4K sector sizes you
wouldn't need to have a GPT.

If you do an entire drive backup / restore
it will keep whatever partitioning type was
backed up when it restores. If you want to
move something, you'd have to do individual
partition restores. I would recommend you
keep your existing drive for booting Windows
and anything else and use the larger GPT drive
for your data because the boot process is
completely different under UEFI.
You can setup and customize the boot disks with
your own scripts that do anything you want.

However, we don't allow changing the backup files.

If you have files to archive you can store them somewhere

and have your script copy them over after the backup.

                                     December 16, 2013

Dear TBU Sales,

   First, thank you for your VERY prompt reply.  Nice to see

a company that values its customers.

   Unfortunately "However, we don't allow changing the

backup files." was a deal killer.

   Something you said:

"If your new drive uses 4K sector sizes you
wouldn't need to have a GPT."

flies in the face of EVERYTHING that I have read in pursuit of

my 3TB goal.  Basically that Windows 7's (64-Bit included)

CANNOT utilize over 2.1 or so TB's when a MBR is used.  Ie:

http://www.sevenforums.com/general-discussion/197004-how-do-i-create-new-volume-unallocated-space-3tb-hard-drive.html

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-hardware/using-3tb-drive-as-data-drive-under-windows-7-32/7e78c0d0-a18a-44aa-8e06-806c56ca1315?msgId=8d22f329-f35e-4677-8da5-3a1c7f99d67c


BTW, This is what my present Toshiba 2TB looks like

Near the bottom):

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh147334%28v=ws.10%29.aspx


Checking the Toshiba specs they BOTH have Advanced Format 512e:

http://storage.toshiba.com/storagesolutions/pc-notebook/dt01aca-series


If my Toshiba 3TB cannot go beyond the 2.1 or so TB's when a MBR is

used, do you have software that can make BOTH the 2.1 and the

balance of the drive (600 GB or so) NTFS so I can use a MBR?????

I await your reply.


                             Sincerely,




                              Al Camp
-------------------------------------
                                     December 16, 2013

If you expose the 4K sector size and not the emulated

normal 512 byte sector size, you can use an MBR and

use the entire space (up to 16TiB).

0xFFFFFFFF*512=2,199,023,255,040
0xFFFFFFFF*4096=17,592,186,040,320

-------------------------------------
                                     December 16, 2013

Dear TBU Sales,


>If you expose the 4K sector size and not the emulated

>normal 512 byte sector size, you can use an MBR and

>use the entire space (up to 16TiB).

>0xFFFFFFFF*512=2,199,023,255,040
>0xFFFFFFFF*4096=17,592,186,040,320

With what software and what is the procedure to go about

doing this?

Can it be done via a Bootable CD or must it be done in Windows

with just my SSD and empty 3TB connected?

                             Thank you,

                              Al Camp
-------------------------------------
                                     December 16, 2013

It would be a drive feature/option, typically using
a jumper. The BIOS would also have to support the larger
sizes too so it doesn't crash reading larger sectors, a
modern BIOS should be able to handle it.



I've got an E-Mail in to Toshiba about this.  Still waiting for a reply.

**********************************************************************

NightOwl:


>you haven't actually tried using that large HDD with imaging software as yet--correct?

  You are correct, Sir!

>Could you clarify what the *issue* is

  After searching the Symantec site a LOT, the bottom line

was that my Ghost is v11.5.1.2269 (From Ghost Solution Suite

2.5) must be updated to v11.5.1.2298. I have no way to do

that and this came up too:

Does Ghost work with GPT partition tables?

The GPT supports up to 128 partitions and uses a false Master Boot

Record (MBR) with only one entry that points at the GPT. This is for

legacy compatibility reasons.

Because the Ghost virtual partition replaces the MBR with it's own

version, it will cause problems with systems that use a GPT.

and THIS horror:

http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=DOC6587


From my post:

If the source is Fat32 and the destination is NTFS, after cloning, the destination is now Fat32.


This is SOP with my v11.5.1.2269 bootable CD.

When I put my 2TB HDD in my box in June, I partitioned it

with EaseUS Partition Master Pro v9.0 and set all partitions

as NTFS to check out this exact question.

When I Ghosted my 1TB HDD's partitions to the 2TB, all of

the 1TBs FAT32 partitions came out FAT32 on the 2TB.


>Don't know if this applies

  Doesn't--Check my original post: Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit

with an ASRock P67 PRO3 (B3) MoBo that has a UEFI BIOS.


Just found a SEMI solution:

Acronis True Image 2014 CAN make that second partition that

is set as "unallocated" by Windows into a usable MBR partition.

Check out the scan I made of their "Extended Capacity Manager".

The last 3rd of a 3TB is made to look like a second MBR disk

to Windows, and all is good.

Unfortunately, my future F Drive cannot be 2.538 TB's, just

2.037 TB's.

AND the Acronis True Image 2014 cost $50.00.

BUT, my Easy-peasy "Make", "Restore" and Manual Ghost DOS

Bootable CDs are still in the game!


Big Al
Extended_Capacity_Manager.jpg (53 KB | 364 )

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Brian on Dec 18th, 2013 at 2:50am
@ Big_Al

If TeraByte Support says it can be done then I believe it. But to keep things "simple" I'd do what you intended. A 3 TB GPT drive.


Quote:
However, we don't allow changing the backup files.

I have no idea what is meant by this. Did you get an explanation?

Be careful of Acronis software. It is the most complained about imaging software and their partitioning software is just as bad.

IFL will do what you desire. You have a UEFI BIOS set in Legacy (MBR) mode. That's fine. Same as my computer. Win 7 and IFL will work fine with a 3 TB GPT drive.

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Brian on Dec 18th, 2013 at 1:49pm
@ Big_Al

This doesn't apply to your system but IFL will also boot in a computer with the UEFI BIOS set to UEFI mode. I've done image/restore using UEFI mode and there is little difference from MBR mode.

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Dan Goodell on Dec 18th, 2013 at 9:00pm
Brian wrote:
    (re: "However, we don't allow changing the backup files.")
    I have no idea what is meant by this. Did you get an explanation?

Brian, from the context of Reply #6, I understood TBU to say that once an image is made, you can't selectively alter it by "updating" individual files embedded in the image. Al seems to indicate Ghost Explorer *can* do that with a Ghost image without corrupting the image.

In over 15 years using Ghost I never knew it could do that, but then again I can't imagine why I would ever *want* it to do that. IMHO, it goes to the very heart of what an image is--an exact copy of known working condition at a specific point in time.

TBU's response seems perfectly reasonable to me: simply restore the partition image and follow that with a straight copy of the "updated" file(s). I don't understand why this should be a deal breaker for Al. 



Al wrote:
    if the source is Fat32 and the destination is NTFS, after cloning, the destination is now Fat32.
    This is SOP with my v11.5.1.2269 bootable CD.

That's also SOP with any proper cloning tool, as well, including Terabyte Image. The definition of a "clone" literally demands the resulting file system to be the same as the source file system.

I'll note that terms have become a bit obfuscated by Microsoft (oh, surprise!). Microsoft's ImageX solution used in Vista/7/8 does not protect the source file system. ImageX allows (indeed, requires) the target to have any recognizable file system and simply copies files to that partition's file system, regardless of the source partition's file system. Hence, ImageX can restore a FAT32 .wim image to a NTFS partition and the result will be NTFS.

To me, that's not a clone, but Microsoft doesn't seem to care about the distinction.



Al wrote:
    Another stranger statement:
    "If your new drive uses 4K sector sizes you wouldn't need to have a GPT."
    As my Toshiba PH3300U-1I72 has Advanced Format 512e, I E-Mailed them back to explain since the whole web agrees that 3TB HDD's won't show past 2.1 TBs using a MBR.

Al, TBU is exactly right. In case this is unclear, the underlying limit is the number of sectors, not the capacity of the drive. The MBR system doesn't specifically limit a drive to 2TBs, it limits the number of *sectors* the MBR can see. The 2TB limit comes from the fact that legacy drives have universally used sectors of 512 bytes, which when multiplied by the maximum number of sectors the MBR can see results in a total capacity of 2TB. However, if sectors of 4KB are used instead of 512 bytes, that maximum capacity goes up to 16TB.

For backward compatibility, many new drives use "512e mode"--i.e., physical sectors are 4KB but the drive firmware *emulates* them to the outside world as a block of 512-byte sectors. When in 512e mode the drive appears to have 512-byte sectors, and given the sector limit of the MBR system you're limited to 2TB capacity. However, since these drives actually have 4KB sectors internally, it's possible to use a jumper or a manufacturer utility to change a firmware setting and change from 512e to 4KB mode. If that is done, the capacity limit goes up to 16TB.

All the above is relevant only to MBR layouts. If the drive uses a GPT partition layout, it can handle far more max sectors.

Note that MBR vs GPT is a matter of the partitioning scheme *on the drive*. It does not depend on the BIOS or OS, except to the extent that the OS must understand the scheme. Win7 understands the scheme, so as TBU and Brian both indicated, you would have no trouble keeping your (SSD) boot drive as MBR and formatting your 3TB as GPT.



Al wrote:
    Check out the scan I made of their "Extended Capacity Manager".
    The last 3rd of a 3TB is made to look like a second MBR disk to Windows, and all is good.

Yikes!! That sure looks like a custom, proprietary way of treating a HDD, and almost certainly requires a proprietary driver from Acronis that needs to be installed in Windows.  I wouldn't touch that with a ten-foot pole!  That would almost certainly make the HDD unreadable by standard or non-Acronis utilities.






Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Big_Al on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:05pm
Guys,

OK, dispite Dan's "Yikes!!":

That's the way to make a 3TB FULLY accessible and set as MBR.

Acronis True Image, aka Seagates DiskWizard aka WD's version

of DiskWizard puts the Extended Capacity Manager in the boot

sector, so you get one 2.1TB and one 700+GB partition, BOTH MBR.

See: Seagate DiscWizard CloneDisc For Drives Larger Than 3TB_Part-2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCLGfj1LSmI


Also, I just found this (of all things) "Built into Windows" way,

WITHOUT ANY software and would like some input before opening the

Toshiba 3TB's box:


Make SURE the 3TB is EMPTY as this will wipe ALL data on the drive

To make a fully accessible 3TB with 4k sector:


1. Boot to desktop.

2. Open "My Computer" in Windows Explorer.

3. Click on the EMPTY 3TB HDD.

4. If the factory made some partitions on it, delete them all.

5. Once it is just one disk, right-click it and click "Format"

6. Select "4096", "NTFS" and "Format".

7. Click OK.  Since the 3TB is EMPTY, it should be real quick.

8. It's now ready to be partitioned to your liking up to 2.7 or so

   TB's total and is set as MBR.

Big Al

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Dan Goodell on Dec 23rd, 2013 at 2:50am

Big_Al wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:05pm:
OK, dispite Dan's "Yikes!!":
That's the way to make a 3TB FULLY accessible and set as MBR.


I said "yikes" because you're making a deal with the devil when there is absolutely no reason to do so.

That technique will create a hard disk with a proprietary partition scheme that only Acronis can decipher.  If something disastrous were to happen and you needed to remove that hard disk and recover its files via another system, you're dead in the water because nobody but Acronis will be able to decipher what they did to that disk.




Quote:
Also, I just found this (of all things) "Built into Windows" way, WITHOUT ANY software and would like some input


You got bad advice.  Whoever gave you those instructions doesn't know the difference between 4KB sectors and 4KB allocation units.  Those are entirely different things.


The "Built into Windows way, WITHOUT ANY software" is called GPT.  It's already a standard.  Just leave your boot SSD as a MBR disk, initialize the 3TB as a GPT disk and you'll have access to the full 3TB from Win7, Win8, or linux . . . that includes any Win7 or Win8, not just the one Acronis blesses with their snake oil.

You already got that recommendation from TBU, and Brian reiterated it.





Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:16am
@ Big_Al


Big_Al wrote on Dec 18th, 2013 at 12:11am:
Unfortunately "However, we don't allow changing the backup files." was a deal killer.


I looked at your original post at the beginning of this thread and nowhere is there a mention of requiring this type of function.  Ghost 2003 (Corp Ghost 7.5) Ghost Explorer allowed one to add or remove a file from an image file set, but only if the file system was FAT.  I have not used that function, but I think after you make those changes, you then have to *recompile* the image file set and re-save it.  I looked at the Ghost 11.5x user guide and saw that the FAT restriction was no longer mentioned, so I have to assume that you can now use Ghost Explorer to add or remove files from an image set from any partition regardless of the file system in use.

As Dan Goodell said:


Dan Goodell wrote on Dec 18th, 2013 at 9:00pm:
but then again I can't imagine why I would ever *want* it to do that.

Could you offer us an explanation of how and why you want to use an image program in this fashion.  What problem or benefit does this offer for how you use Ghost currently?


Big_Al wrote on Dec 18th, 2013 at 12:11am:
Because the Ghost virtual partition replaces the MBR with it's own version, it will cause problems with systems that use a GPT.

Again, based on how you are using Ghost as outlined in your original post, you are not creating or using a *virtual partition*.  The virtual partition was first used in Ghost 2003 (Corp Ghost v7.5x) to allow using a Windows interface to setup Ghost procedures, then having Ghost close down Windows, load DOS, perform the procedure, and then shut down DOS,  and reboot to Windows.  (We recently had a thread where we *discovered* that when Ghost 2003 uses the virtual partition, it does replace the Master Boot Record (MBR) with its own version of the MBR, and then copies the original MBR back before rebooting to Windows (I can't find that link--I'll update this when I do).  (Edit 12/26/2013:  found it!--How to Recover from Lost Windows Partition with Ghost 2003 --have to read thru it to see what we found regarding Ghost 2003 and the virtual partition and its MBR.)  If your version of Corp Ghost does not understand GPT partitioning, then the MBR that it uses when doing a procedure that involves using the virtual partition routine will not allow Ghost to *see* the GPT partitions and their locations.

Corp Ghost uses the virtual partition when doing Ghost Cast type procedures over a network with connected client PC's that do not have Ghost installed on them.  The Ghost server pushes the virtual partition out to the client in a similar fashion as to how Ghost 2003 does it on the local machine.  But, again, based on your original post, you are not doing that type of Ghost procedure--there is no virtual partition that is involved.

So, the real question is if your DOS based Ghost version can use that *legacy MBR* to locate the various partitions on a GPT partitioned HDD.  I suspect it can not--but, that's what I said you needed to try once you have a GPT partitioned HDD to see if your version of Ghost can handle it.  Your Ghost might not be able to create a GPT partitioned HDD, but it might be able to see the partitions--only trying will answer that question for sure.


Big_Al wrote on Dec 18th, 2013 at 12:11am:
If the source is Fat32 and the destination is NTFS, after cloning, the destination is now Fat32.

Well, I was asking you to clarify what theoretical problem(s) you were having with how Ghost will work on the GPT partitioned HDD.  But, I still am unclear--are you saying the way Ghost currently functions on your MBR based HDDs is not what you want--or are you saying that you want an imaging program to continue to work in this fashion?  As far as I know, all imaging programs will restore the original file system that was in use when the source image was created regardless of the file system that may exist on the destination partition before the restore occurs.  Are you looking of some other functionality?


Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 26th, 2013 at 10:04am
@ Big_Al

I was re-reading this thread (slowly--to attempt to make sure I understood   ;) ), and there were a couple things that caught my attention:

In your original post: 
Big_Al wrote on Dec 15th, 2013 at 2:59am:
My C, D and E partitions are on a 120GB SSD NTFS with a MBR.

and: 
Big_Al wrote on Dec 15th, 2013 at 2:59am:
When I load my "Make C" CD, it loads Ghost, makes an image of my C Drive and stores it on my E Drive as "Newest.gho".

Your Ghost backup is being stored on E:, which is on the same HDD (i.e. the SSD).  So you have a backup of your current active OS available should something go wrong.

But, if your SSD dies, you have no protection that would allow you to restore your OS to a replacement drive--you will loose your Ghost backup on the E: drive as well as the C: and D: partitions.

So, unless you are copying your Ghost image to your other 2 TB HDD, or to an external HDD that you can access if you need to restore your image to a replacement drive, you're missing an important part of using an imaging program for backup protection.

Just want to make sure you are doing this on purpose......or have other image copy/restore procedures in place that you have not mentioned.

The other item--in this post you have a screen shoot of your 2 TB HDD: 
Big_Al wrote on Dec 18th, 2013 at 12:11am:
BTW, This is what my present Toshiba 2TB looks like

Near the bottom):

I assume this is an *old* Disk Management screen shoot of the 2 TB HDD because it has what appears to be an OS installed on it, and is not partitioned and showing the drive letter assignments F: thru M: that you mention in your original post.  And there is a second drive that has the F: partition on it, but no other partitions.

So, I'm presuming this represents part of the: 
Big_Al wrote on Dec 15th, 2013 at 2:59am:
I've had a bunch of changes in my computer.

Just wanted to *clarify* that.

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 26th, 2013 at 10:19am
@ Brian


Brian wrote on Dec 15th, 2013 at 4:44am:
I assume you would like to image/clone from a boot disk rather than from Windows. Image for Linux will work with your system. Don't be concerned about the Linux term.

So, if Big_Al were to switch to Image for Linux, can he add scripts to that boot disc that will act like what he currently has set up--he just puts a CD in the system's optical drive, and the backup or restore (depending on which disc he uses) is automatically performed.

He's using command line statements in his autoexec.bat (or possibly a script file) that tells Ghost what to do without further input other than booting from the optical disc.

So, Image for Linux understands a GPT partitioned HDD, but does Image for DOS have the same abilities.  I'm pretty sure that there are command line statements that can be used with Image for DOS that would mimic the DOS Ghost statements on a DOS based boot disc--but will Image for DOS correctly see, and work with a GPT HDD?

I know that all the TeraByte Image programs can interchangeably use the image files created by the other programs, but are there different limitations that force one to use only one or the other of the different Image programs--in particular in relations to the GPT partitioned HDDs?

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by NightOwl on Dec 26th, 2013 at 11:18am
To All

I edited a previous post with an updated link to a discussion about what Ghost 2003 does to the MBR when the virtual partition is used--just wanted to alert everyone to that change:


NightOwl wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:16am:
(Edit 12/26/2013:  found it! How to Recover from Lost Windows Partition with Ghost 2003--have to read thru it to see what we found regarding Ghost 2003 and the virtual partition and its MBR.) 


Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Brian on Jan 2nd, 2014 at 12:17am
@ NightOwl

Just got home from Cambodia. A very interesting country.


NightOwl wrote on Dec 26th, 2013 at 10:19am:
So, if Big_Al were to switch to Image for Linux, can he add scripts to that boot disc that will act like what he currently has set up--he just puts a CD in the system's optical drive, and the backup or restore (depending on which disc he uses) is automatically performed.


Yes, a script can run automatically or you can choose one from a menu.


NightOwl wrote on Dec 26th, 2013 at 10:19am:
but does Image for DOS have the same abilities


Yes. They are interchangeable with a MBR dystem. However, IFL works better than IFD with USB HDs and IFL is usually "faster" than IFD. IFL accesses the USB HD directly rather than via the BIOS.

With a UEFI system, IFD won't boot unless Secure Boot is disabled and the BIOS set to Legacy.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=572



NightOwl wrote on Dec 26th, 2013 at 10:19am:
but are there different limitations that force one to use only one or the other of the different Image programs--in particular in relations to the GPT partitioned HDDs? 


No. Use your favourite. See above for UEFI systems.

I use IFL to do my auto restores. I have IFL installed in a HD partition so I can initiate the restore while I'm still in Windows and BootNow will cause the computer to restart into IFL. IFL is about 10% faster than IFW and 50% faster than IFD, in my computer. But you can do auto restores using IFW or IFD in a similar fashion.

The latest IFL allows you to add scripts to the USB flash drive after the UFD has been created. Previous versions required the scripts to be added at UFD creation time. I know you like to create cold backups so you could have an IFL menu containing backup and restore scripts.

The scripts are easy to create. Just run through the Backup or Restore menu, click Show Command, Save to File, save to the Scripts folder on the UFD. Here is one of my restore scripts...


Code:
#! /bin/sh       
/tbu/imagel --r --uy --um --d:#0x3B32414D@0x1 --f:#0x3F839CB4@0x2:"/Tera/W8_single/w8ssd" --v --vb --wco --rb:4


I use DiskIDs rather than Drive numbers. The --wco switch restores changed sectors only. Nice to use with SSDs as you might only need to restore 100 MB of data instead of 20 GB.

--v is validate pre restore
--vb is validate Byte for Byte post restore
--rb:4 is Reboot
0x3B32414D@0x1 is the Win8 partition on the SSD
0x3F839CB4@0x2 is the backup image partition on the backup HD

Using Drive numbers, the above script would be...


Code:
#! /bin/sh       
/tbu/imagel --r --uy --um --d:l0@0x1 --f:l2@0x2:"/Tera/W8_single/w8ssd" --v --vb --wco --rb:4





Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Brian on Jan 2nd, 2014 at 2:44am
@ Big_Al

Any particular reason why you have started so many threads and provided feedback to none?

http://community.norton.com/t5/Norton-Ghost/Toshiba-GPT-3TB-amp-Fat32/td-p/1061851

http://community.norton.com/t5/Norton-Ghost/Symantec-System-Recovery-2013-gho/td-p/1061841

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=357577

http://www.sysnative.com/forums/hardware/8061-toshiba-3tb-partitioned-as-all-mbr.html#post61861

http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=282398

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/170526-toshiba-3tb-gpt-partitioned-fat32/

http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=242440&sid=dd7be588190651eacc40669f02593962#p1345610

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1387097953/0

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Brian on Jan 2nd, 2014 at 5:28pm
Further to Reply #16. You can do cold image/restore without using a boot disk or having an extra partition. The "bootfile" method...

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/howto-ifd-bootfile.htm

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/howto-ifl-bootfile.htm

These tutorials were written for old software versions. It is easier with the current versions. Especially IFL GUI rather than CUI.

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by NightOwl on Jan 6th, 2014 at 10:21am
@ Brian


Brian wrote on Jan 2nd, 2014 at 12:17am:
Just got home from Cambodia.

You visit some interesting places!  Vacation, business, other??????


Brian wrote on Jan 2nd, 2014 at 2:44am:
Any particular reason why you have started so many threads and provided feedback to none?

I noticed that Big_Al has been to our site several times this last week.  Unfortunately, he has not responded to any of our questions that would better clarify what he is trying to accomplish with his imaging software, and his new 3 TB HDD.

I can understand his posting to more than one forum--I'm assuming he's hoping someone at a particular forum, who may not visit other sites, might have a better answer he's looking for--but, his non-response to further the conversations sure makes it hard.....


Brian wrote on Jan 2nd, 2014 at 5:28pm:
Further to Reply #16.

Thanks for your input on automating the TeraByte Image programs...those are some interesting links.

Quoting from this link:  http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/howto-ifl-bootfile.htm


Quote:
The IFL boot menu shown above is the same as the standard IFL boot menu, with the exception of item 4. The purpose of item 4 is to provide an easy method of restoring the original MBR should IFL fail to boot (hang) on a particular system. This situation should be rare, but it would leave you in a difficult predicament if it did occur, since you would not be able to get back into your normal OS after attempting to boot IFL. If this does happen, item 4 is provided so that you can choose it (type 4, then press <Enter>) to restore the original MBR. The system will be back to normal on the next reboot.

So, this technique by TeraByte uses the same method as Ghost's Windows interface that creates the *virtual partition* where during the Windows setup phase, the MBR is replaced by the Ghost MBR. 

TeraByte's Windows interface apparently does the same thing of replacing the MBR to it's own MBR before leaving Windows to do the imaging procedure.  And, replaces that TeraByte MBR with the *original* MBR before booting back to Windows.  That item #4 is the equivalent to the *ghreboot.exe* program used if you get trapped in the *virtual partition*-- I'm guessing.

Interesting.....

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Brian on Jan 6th, 2014 at 2:45pm
@ NightOwl


NightOwl wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 10:21am:
So, this technique by TeraByte uses the same method as Ghost's Windows interface that creates the *virtual partition* where during the Windows setup phase, the MBR is replaced by the Ghost MBR.


I had another look at this method and it differs slightly from the Ghost method. I used a computer with Win7 boot code. This code was replaced by WinXP code for the boot into IFL and the code was changed back to Win7 when IFL loaded. As you point out, this boot code change happens in Ghost 2003 too.

But the difference with this method is a spare MBR partition slot isn't needed. It works if all four slots are in use. I ran the IFL batch file and checked the partition table prior to IFL booting. There was only one entry in the partition table, the 64 MB FAT16 partition containing IFL. Its starting LBA indicated it was "in the middle" of my large Data partition. It is interesting.

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Brian on Jan 6th, 2014 at 5:26pm
@ NightOwl


NightOwl wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 10:21am:
You visit some interesting places!Vacation, business, other??????


Vacation. Late December was the only time our family had common free time.

At Phnom Penh...






pp.jpg (191 KB | 229 )

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Brian on Jan 6th, 2014 at 6:43pm
One automation method I have used with the IFL bootfile method....

The ifl.bin contains a script folder and IFL_BOOT.CFG. Custom files can be copied using TBOSDT to make ifl.bin do different things.


Code:
open fs 0: C:\IFLBOOT\ifl.bin
del file 0:scripts\* /q
copy file brian 0:scripts /q
copy file IFL_BOOT.CFG 0: /q
close fs 0:


The brian script is


Quote:
#! /bin/bash
/tbu/imagel --r --uy --d:l0@0x2 --base:l2@0x2:"/Images/SSD/WinXP" --f:l2@0x2:"/Images/SSD/brian" --v --vb


IFL_BOOT.CFG is


Quote:
RUNSCRIPTS=(brian)
TIMEZONE="Australia/Sydney"

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by NightOwl on Jan 12th, 2014 at 7:28pm
@ Brian

Hey Brian--good looking family you've got there!

I envy the clothes--shorts and light shirts--around here it's heavy winter coats and more often than not--rain gear!


Brian wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 6:43pm:
The brian script is


Quote:
#! /bin/bash
/tbu/imagel --r --uy --d:l0@0x2 --base:l2@0x2:"/Images/SSD/WinXP" --f:l2@0x2:"/Images/SSD/brian" --v --vb


Makes me smile  :) !  I remember quite some time ago you said you had trouble following the cryptic nature of DOS command lines in the config.sys and autoexec.bat!  I think the TeraByte Image programs may have a leg up on those DOS commands!

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by Brian on Jan 12th, 2014 at 9:29pm
@ NightOwl

Thanks for the kind words.

Regarding DOS, most of what I've learned over the years has been from posts you and Dan have submitted in this forum. Thanks.

Title: Re: Ghost Replacement For GPT HDD?
Post by NightOwl on Feb 1st, 2014 at 2:56pm
@ Brian


Quote:
Regarding DOS, most of what I've learned over the years has been from posts you and Dan have submitted in this forum. Thanks.

You're most welcome.

Too bad Big_Al has not returned to this thread!  I was hoping to hear what he finally decided on doing, and hearing what avenues he tried, and what results he may have had.

Oh, well......

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