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Rad Community Technical Discussion Boards (Computer Hardware + PC Software) >> Cloning Programs (Except Norton Ghost) >> To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
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Message started by Mr Moose on May 22nd, 2017 at 10:02pm

Title: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on May 22nd, 2017 at 10:02pm
My OS (Win 7 pro 64) is on a ssd and is almost full.
I would like clone it to a larger ssd.
What would be the best cloning software to do this?
I already have backup software that's now quite dated and has been discontinued that says it can copy my drive, but not sure if it can work with two ssd drives.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on May 23rd, 2017 at 3:24am
@ Mr Moose

Should be easy to do. Which software do you have?

First, can you post a screenshot of Disk Management as that will guide what we do next?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on May 23rd, 2017 at 10:22am
Hi Brian,
My software is Ghost 15, I'm not sure if it's OK say anything about Ghost on this forum, I'm sorry if it is.
I haven't purchased a new ssd yet, but I planned to get a Samsung 512 GB 850 pro. which will replace my Samsung 256 GB 840 pro which only has about 20 GB of space left.
I will try to get you a screenshot tonight.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by mariella on May 23rd, 2017 at 5:22pm
@ Mr Moose,
this is a task I made with my production system when I switched from a Samsung 840 EVO 120 GB to an 850 EVO 250 GB.
It's easily operated by using the Data Migration tool from Samsung.
The important point is that it's highly recommended to connect the new SSD to the same SATA port used by the old one.
The best is obtained by using a special SATA-USB cable.
Please, read and attentively follow the user guide of the tool and you'll see that the switch is really easy!!!
Anyway, in this case a real cloning is operated; after the cloning, you can image the system at your will.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on May 23rd, 2017 at 8:06pm
Hi Mariella,

Thanks for the reply. I'll take a look at that.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on May 23rd, 2017 at 8:23pm
Brian,
Here's the screenshot you asked for.

Screen_shot_05-23-17.jpg (176 KB | 100 )

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on May 23rd, 2017 at 9:08pm
Sorry about my screenshot, after resizing it to fit the 200k limit there isn't much left.
Before the resize, the file size was 555k 

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on May 23rd, 2017 at 9:17pm
Bill,

Your screenshot shows the OS on Disk 3 and there is only one partition on Disk 3. Is that correct?

Can you make a Ghost 15 image of that partition? Where will the image be written? Internal HD?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on May 23rd, 2017 at 10:08pm
Hi Brian,

Yes the OS (C drive) is on disk 3.
I don't have a external enclosure for a ssd but I could buy one as it might be easier to do it that way.
I do have a Ghost image of my C: drive for use as a backup. But wouldn't the copy my drive be a true clone of the OS?
Could you give a short outline as to the difference between Copy my drive vs Backup image?
The backup image is on a external HDD

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on May 23rd, 2017 at 10:29pm
Bill,

There are two methods to upgrade to a larger drive. "Copy my Drive" and Image/Restore. The latter is more reliable and is my preference. You would create a Ghost 15 image of your Win7 partition, writing the image to a partition on one of your internal HDs. An image is just a file so you can write it to any partition. Then remove the old SSD and replace it with the new SSD. The old SSD isn't in the computer for the restore process. Then boot the Ghost 15 CD into the Ghost recovery environment and restore the image to unallocated Free Space on the new SSD. I'll describe the options along the way.

You don't need an external enclosure for this method. No USB HD is needed either but I note you have one.

If your Win7 image isn't recent, create a new one as you want the image to be current.

I mentioned "old SSD isn't in the computer for the restore". One of the issues with Copy my Drive is drive letter anomalies but this doesn't occur with Image/Restore.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by mariella on May 24th, 2017 at 3:47am
Bill,

if I were you, and just to make the things easier and more reliable, I'd follow this simple basic procedure :

1 - Once you have opted for a new SSD Samsung 850 pro, please add some more bucks in order to buy the "complete version" of the SSD, including mounting bracket and a SATA-USB cable; the added kit will make your life easier and could be used in other circumstances...
2 - With Data Migration tool, and the new SSD attached through SATA-USB cable to your system, make a "clone" of your existing ssd, following the recommendations of the tool Data Migration; a "clone", as also the terms says, is a "quasi-replica" (byte-to-byte) of your old ssd (physical copy), hence including also the "wasted" space.
3 - Switch off the system, detach the old ssd and attach the new one to the same SATA port
4 - Now you should have the same system as before but with a brand new larger ssd
5 - Once the new system has benn cleaned and stable, at your will make an image, which is a non-physical "copy"

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on May 25th, 2017 at 7:38pm
Bill,

Has the new SSD arrived yet?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on May 25th, 2017 at 8:38pm
Hi Brian,

I just ordered it today from New Egg, I had a hard time finding it in stock, most places had it 2 to 4 weeks out.
I will post a reply to this forum when I get the ssd, and I'm ready to proceed with the image.

Thanks, Bill.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 6th, 2017 at 8:28pm
Brian,

I have the new ssd (Samsung 850 pro 512GB)
I made the new partition on my 3TB internal data drive, and I saved  the Ghost 15 image there (M:Backup)
All I need to do is swap out the old drive with the new.
I assume that the new drive out of the box is unallocated space?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 6th, 2017 at 9:06pm
Bill,

Yes, the SSD will have unallocated free space without a partition. Good.

Remove the old SSD and install the new SSD. Same cables. Same SATA port.

Boot the Ghost 15 CD. If you are asked to Initialize the new SSD, Accept.
click Recover My Computer
Next
in the "View recovery point by" (drop down arrow) choose Filename
click Browse
double click Computer
navigate to the folder containing your Recovery point
select the Recovery point
click Open
Next
click Edit
click Delete Drive (the highlighted partition doesn't exist yet)
tick Resize drive after recover or type in your desired partition size
dot in Primary partition
tick Check for file system errors after recovery
tick Set drive active (for booting OS)
tick Restore original disk signature
tick Restore master boot record
OK
tick Verify recovery point before recovery (if you want this)
Next
no tick in Reboot when finished
Finish
Yes

Restart

All OK?




Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 6th, 2017 at 10:10pm
Brian,

Thanks, its to late tonight, but I plan on giving it a go tomorrow night.
Its been many years since I last booted to a cd, but if I remember correctly.
Load the cd, restart and push the F12 key at startup to change the boot order?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 6th, 2017 at 10:30pm
F12 for Dells. Other F keys for other brands. eg F8, F1, F2, Del, Esc.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 7th, 2017 at 9:34pm
Brian,

After I hit finish I get this error message
Error: E0BB0024
I get a (set active is not supported)

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 7th, 2017 at 9:37pm
Bill,

Strange. Try again with Set Active not ticked.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 7th, 2017 at 9:47pm
Unchecking (Set Active) worked.
Will I now need to set the drive active before it will boot?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 7th, 2017 at 10:24pm
Maybe not. Did the restore work?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 7th, 2017 at 10:32pm
Bill, I think you own BootIt Bare Metal. Correct?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 7th, 2017 at 10:37pm
Its running right now, but slowly as it says 3 hours to go.
I did tell it to Verify recovery point before recovery

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 7th, 2017 at 10:39pm
OK. So it's verifying at present. That's fine. See you in 3 hours or so.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 7th, 2017 at 10:43pm

Brian wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 10:32pm:
Bill, I think you own BootIt Bare Metal. Correct?


I know I once did have a copy, but that was years ago.
Is it still available?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 7th, 2017 at 10:48pm
Just asking in case we have to fix something but it probably won't be needed. As you own it why not get the latest version. Ver 1.37

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/product-download.php

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 7th, 2017 at 11:04pm

Brian wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 10:39pm:
OK. So it's verifying at present. That's fine. See you in 3 hours or so.


Brian,

I won't be staying up that late.
I've turned my monitor off for now as it wouldn't be good for the screen, I will check the progress before I go to work in morning, I assume it will be finished.
I could just let it be until I check with you tomorrow night, (with the screen off)
Or would be OK to shut it down in the morning?
I will wait until tomorrow night to see if it boots.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 7th, 2017 at 11:20pm
In the morning, confirm the restore has completed. Then restart or shutdown.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 7th, 2017 at 11:42pm
Brian

I just turned the monitor back on to check the progress, and there's no image.
The computer is still running, but its not sending a image to the screen.
Should I reboot?
I don't think turning the screen off would have affected anything.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 7th, 2017 at 11:48pm
I'd leave it till the morning. If no image on the monitor in the morning leave it till you get home and then restart.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 7th, 2017 at 11:55pm
There is activity, the HDD red light is blinking as well as a light on the mother board (my case has a window)
I will let it go.
Talk with you tomorrow.

Thanks, Bill

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:00pm
Brian,

I get
Reboot and select proper boot device

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:04pm
Now we need to use the BIBM CD. Do you still have it?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:13pm
Try this. Restart your computer and get into the boot menu (as you did to boot the Ghost CD). Select and try to boot the new HD (SSD).

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:23pm
Your right, I did buy it. And I just down loaded the latest version. Its Zipped so I installed the free version of WinZip
How do I make a cd? 

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:30pm
CREATE BOOT DISK (full paid version)
Unzip your file to a folder
double click makedisk.exe, next
dot in BootIt Bare Metal, next
dot in I accept the agreement, next
select Image for DOS (GUI) and also
select Scripting Support, next
dot in Mouse Support Enabled, next
dot in VESA Video, next
dot in Video Mode 1024*768 - 64K Colors, next
dot in Normal, next
don't choose any Device Options, next
tick in Enable USB 1.1 (UHCI), next
tick in Align partitions on 1MiB Boundaries, next
in Additional bootitbm.ini Options (you can leave it blank), next
enter BIBM Name and Product Key, Next
select your CD burner drive letter (you can use a CD-RW or a CD-R disc)
Finish

Let me know when you have the CD.

Try the Boot Menu suggestion above in the meantime.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:49pm
What is BIBM Name

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:55pm
Where you downloaded BIBM, you will see...
Order date
(Name)
(Key)

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:03pm
Ok disk is finished and successful

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:08pm
Boot the CD
On the Setup Menu click Cancel, then OK
Click Partition Work
Drives should be on 0- BIOS HD
Do you see the partition on the new SSD?
Click to select the partition
click View MBR
Is the word Active present on the line?

Leave BIBM as it is and let me know about Active.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:22pm
Yes, there is a box that says
Set Active

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:25pm
So the partition line does NOT have the word Active? That's OK.

Click Set Active, Apply, any OK that is needed.

Remove the CD and click Restart (bottom right)

Successful Win7 boot now?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:29pm
It doesn't boot

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:31pm
What is the error message?

Can you boot it from the Boot Menu?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:46pm
Same message  as before.
I can't spend any more time on it tonight, its been a long day. (made a offer on a house today)
I'll try again tomorrow night.
Thanks Brian. 

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 9th, 2017 at 1:11am
Bill,

I suspect the BIOS is trying to boot the wrong HD.

Boot BIBM and confirm "Active" is on the partition line.
Try to boot the SSD from the Boot Menu.

If no success disconnect the power and data cables from all other HDs (I think you have 3 or 4). Only the SSD will be connected. Then try to boot the SSD. Make sure no USB devices are connected (flash drives, printer, external HD).

Don't worry. We'll get it working. If Ghost fails (I don't think it will) we can use the Image for DOS component of BIBM.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by NightOwl on Jun 9th, 2017 at 11:00am
@ Mr Moose

Hang in there!

Obviously things are not going as expected, but you are in good hands with Brian helping you.

Looks like it's going to take a little more time troubleshooting and extra steps to get this job done.





Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by NightOwl on Jun 9th, 2017 at 11:44am
@ Brian

Aargh!


Brian wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 1:11am:
I suspect the BIOS is trying to boot the wrong HD.


What the heck?!

We both know this should have been a straight line *one and done* operation--have to wonder what's going on with this system and this software operation!


Brian wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 9:17pm:
Your screenshot shows the OS on Disk 3 and there is only one partition on Disk 3. Is that correct?

Well, you have better eyes than I do--not sure I could have made that ID. But, I wonder if that's where the problem lies?

Mr. Moose's system does not appear to be *new* hardware, but neither is it that old! But, for some reason Ghost 15 and BIBM are having a problem setting the replacement SSD as the new active OS HDD.

Have to wonder what settings exist in the BIOS that have to do with setting an active HDD? Is there an *auto* vs *manual* setting? I know I have had issues show up with certain BIOS's where the system wants the boot drive to be hooked up as HDD 1 (or maybe it will be shown as HDD 0--depending on how the software designates the first HDD controller for the motherboard).

Which brings up the question: Looks like Mr. Moose added the old SSD drive sometime after the original setup of the system (I might be wrong about that), but how did it end up being HDD 3?! What steps did Mr. Moose do to get that installed, and in that position? Are the other HDDs the originals--and what are their settings--are they all in the *original position* on the system?

I know that older Ghost versions had a problem handling the situation where the HDD partitions were not in sequential order (this does not appear to be *that* problem), but if both Ghost and BIBM are unable to look at the organization of the HDDs on this system, and handle things properly--there has to be a common issue that's out of the ordinary and affecting both softwares!

Just some random thoughts. Probably your trouble shooting suggestion below will get the job done.

But, should the new SSD still be connected to the some controller position as the previous SSD. Or should it be placed in the controller 0 or 1--and use a repair to get things booting from that position?

I wonder if the system's BIOS is changing the drive letter designations as a result of adding the new SSD and imaging it with the old SSD info?


Brian wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 1:11am:
If no success disconnect the power and data cables from all other HDs (I think you have 3 or 4). Only the SSD will be connected. Then try to boot the SSD. Make sure no USB devices are connected (flash drives, printer, external HD).







Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by mariella on Jun 9th, 2017 at 3:40pm
Bill,

it looks like the task is going to be worse snd worse over the time, and I am very sorry for that.

The only advice I can give you at this point (if you still have the old ssd unchanged after the switch) is to follow my post in Reply #10.

I am strongly convinced that the procedure I indicated is the most simple and reliable for your target and, moreover, I positively tested it in a situation similar (I'a say the same) to yours.

This is the best I can make to help you solving the task.


Title: rianB: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 9th, 2017 at 8:40pm
Let me provide some info.

I built this PC three years ago, my first attempt, and it has worked well.
I'm into photo and video editing. When I plugged the hard drives in I didn't take note of the order.
Brian, we did some editing with BBM back then, can't remember what the problem was, but this was back early May 2014. I'm not sure if that editing could cause trouble now. 
The OS was installed on the Samsung 840 pro 256GB

Brian, the bios does see the new drive, but I did get a message that said 
No operating system.


Here is a list of the components I chose.

ntel Core i7-4930K Ivy Bridge-E 3.4GHz
LGA 2011 130W Desktop Processor

ASUS Rampage IV Black Edition LGA 2011 Intel X79
SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard

G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 64GB (8 x 8GB)
240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000)
Desktop Memory Model
F3-17000CL11Q2-64GBZLD

NVIDIA Quadro K2000

SeaSonic Platinum SS-860XP2 860W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready
80 PLUS PLATINUM Certified Full Modular
Active PFC Power Supply New 4th Gen CPU Certified Haswell Ready

SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW
2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme/All In One Liquid Cooling System CLW0217

Cooler Master HAF X - Full Tower Computer Case
with High Airflow Windowed Side Panel and USB 3.0

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 9th, 2017 at 8:51pm
Bill,

That is a top end system.

Where are you with my suggestions from reply #45?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 9th, 2017 at 9:10pm
In the bios where it showed 4 drives.
At the top it says Boot Over ride
I chose my new ssd, the screen blinked and went black and in the upper left corner in white letters says Missing Operating System with a blinking underscore at the very end of the word System
Could it be that Ghost encountered a error
when it was recovering the image?
Is there a way to tell if there is anything on that drive?
Remember when I tried to turn the screen back on, and came up blank.
I had know way to tell if the recovery was successful.   

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 9th, 2017 at 9:13pm
Bill, can you boot BIBM and confirm the partition is Active? Stay in BIBM for more questions..

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 9th, 2017 at 9:24pm
I have BBM up I'm looking at Work With Partitions
MBR Partitions
Partition 488385 MB free
I think that is my 512GB drive

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 9th, 2017 at 9:31pm
There is no partition present. Ghost failed.

I suggest you boot the Ghost CD again and restore the same image. This time don't select Verify. Leave the monitor on so we can see what is happening and whether it reports success or failure. Can you let us know when the restore has commenced and you can see the timer ticking off?


Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 9th, 2017 at 9:42pm
Brian,
I won't have time tonight, but it's Saturday tomorrow and I'll have plenty of time.
I will do as you say, and I'll keep a eye on the screen.
I'll report what I find, but might not be back until Monday night.
So you think It's still all uneducated space?
Thanks, Bill.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 9th, 2017 at 9:47pm
In BIBM when there is unallocated space you see...

Under MBR Partitions is

--------- Partition Size in MiB Free Space



512 GB=  512000/1.024^2  = 488281 MiB  (close enough)




Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 10th, 2017 at 2:44pm
Brian

It worked, I did notice some differences setting it up, so this time I set it up correctly.
Also, I had unallocated space on a internal data drive, that is where the first recovery went, I think that is why I couldn't set it active. This time I didn't get the error when it when I ticked (Set drive as active)

But now, when I tried to create a new recovery point (backup) Ghost can't see the the new C: drive It doesn't show up on the list, all of the other drives show up,  so I can't back up C:
This is a problem. We some how need to fix this. 
I will check back tonight, it will be late.

Bill


Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 10th, 2017 at 5:09pm
Bill,

Nice work and thanks for outlining what went wrong with the first restore.

I've seen your issue described before of Ghost not seeing partitions. Let me do some searching. In the meantime can you do a backup with Image for DOS. It's a better app than Ghost 15 anyway...

Boot BIBM, Image for DOS (IFD)
Backup
Full Backup
BIOS
Hard Drive 0 (it should be your SSD, make sure it is by the partition)
select Entire Drive
Single File Set
File (Direct)
BIOS
select the HD to write the image
select partition to write the image
select folder and give the image a name in the Name field (or accept the default name)(you might have to do some double clicking to select a folder for the image)
In Options, put ticks in
Omit Page File Data (should be already ticked)
Omit Hibernation Data (should be already ticked)
Log Results to File (should be already ticked)
Compression       Enhanced Speed - A
File Size Max
Next, Start


Do you own other TeraByte Unlimited software. Check the web page where you downloaded BIBM. Does it show Image for Windows?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 10th, 2017 at 5:11pm
@ NightOwl

WinXP and Win7 suffered from Disk numbers in Disk Management not always matching the BIOS Disk numbering. My WinXP computer was one of those computers. My boot disk was usually Disk 1 but it was occasionally Disk 0. TeraByte Unlimited introduced a method of identifying disks by Disk Signature rather than by Drive number in batch files. This prevented the wrong disk being backed up or restored.

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=drive+numbers+disk+management

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/937251/disk-drive-numbers-may-not-correspond-to-the-sata-channel-numbers-when-you-install-windows-on-a-computer-that-has-multiple-sata-or-raid-disks

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/273215-32-make-disk-disk-disk-management

Bill's issue was wetware, sorry Bill. But I've seen threads where the OS wouldn't boot from a restored image until all other disks were disconnected. Then reconnecting the disks was OK. Not relevant here.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 10th, 2017 at 5:16pm
Bill,

https://community.norton.com/en/forums/norton-ghost-15-cant-see-c-drive

Select the partition in BIBM, click Properties. Any error message?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 10th, 2017 at 5:25pm
IFD restore

Restore, Next
Normal, Next
File (Direct), Next
BIOS, Next 
select your HD containing the backup image, Next
select partition, folder and finally the .tbi image, Next    (you can use mouse double clicks)
tick in Entire Drive, Next
BIOS, Next
Hard Drive 0, Next  (make sure it's the SSD in the next step)
Accept the Warning
tick these Options....
Scale to Fit   
Log Results to File
First Track Sectors AUTO
Next
Start

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:01pm
Brian

I can't get the BBM cd to boot, its not on any list in the bios

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:11pm
Bill, what are you doing differently as it booted before? In the Boot Menu it is the CD.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:31pm
I figured it out, had to go into easy mode.
OK  I'm in partitions work

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:33pm
OK. Select the Win7 partition and click Properties. Any error message?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:34pm
Ok there

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:37pm
I don't see any errors (flags)

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:39pm
Again select the Win7 partition and click Resize. OK. With the arrows, reduce the New Size by 10 MiB. OK, Continue, Close. Close Partition Work and restart into Windows.

Can Ghost now see the C: drive?


Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:40pm
It also says
Bootable NTFS
Cluster size 4096 bytes
This partition may not be bootable WinNT

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:42pm
That's OK. (Mine says that too)

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:47pm
Resizing go OK?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:49pm
Ghost still doesn't see C: drive

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:52pm
Resizing went OK 10MB less

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:54pm
OK, we'll need a partinfo.

Go to the Prog Files Ghost 15 folder. In one of the folders you will find PartInfo.exe. Double click it and partinfo.txt will be generated in the same folder.

Can you attach this file to a post?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 12th, 2017 at 10:08pm
Its large file, I can try.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 12th, 2017 at 10:10pm
Mine is 60 KB

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 12th, 2017 at 10:22pm
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Norton Ghost\Utility\PartInfo.exe"
    PID (5808)

Base Build Number: 35907    Base Build Date: Nov 26 2009  02:12:30
OsVersion:
    Generation:               Microsoft Windows 7
    Flavor:                   Windows Flavor Unknown
    OsArchitecture:           64-bit operating system
    KernelType:               Windows NT
    ProcessorArchitecture:    x64 (EM64T/AMD64)
    VersionNumber:            6.1.7601
    ServicePackVersionNumber: 1.0.0
    KernelVersionNumber:      0.0.0
    Path:                     file:///C:/Windows/
    ComputerName:             BillsPC
    Features:
        Execute64BitBinaries
        Execute32BitPrograms
        Hibernate
        MultipleMonitors
        NT4FTVolumes
        DynamicDisk
        NtfsLonghorn
        Fat32

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4930K CPU @ 3.40GHz
         (If cpu speed is specified, it is rated speed, which may not be current speed)
    CPU Vendor:         GenuineIntel
    CPU Signature:      000306e4      CPU Features:       bfebfbff
    Hyperthreads/core:        12      Cores/Package:             1
    Logical procs/pkg:        12      Number of packages:        1
    NX bit supported:                Yes      x64 Capable:                     Yes      Supports HW Virtualization:      Yes
    Virtual Addr Bits:        48      Physical Addr Bits:       46
    OS CPU Count:             12      Processor Mask:     00000fff
    Min App Addr:       00010000      Max App Addr:       FFFEFFFF
    Page Size:              4096
    Memory Usage:             6%
    Total Physical:     65475 MB
    Avail Physical:     60952 MB
    Total Page:         130949 MB
    Avail Page:         126352 MB
    Total Virtual:       4095 MB
    Avail Virtual:       4045 MB
    Avail Extended:         0 MB




=========================================================================================================================
Disk Geometry Information for Disk 0         Sector Count: 1,565,565,872   (1,023 Cylinders, 254 Heads, 63 Sectors/Track)
Signature: CF3E7862
Sector Size             Physical:  4096             Logical:  512
Detected Sector Size:   512
Cache Line Size:        0
Byte Alignment Factors  Sector:  0           Cache:   0
Detected Alignment:     None
.........................................................................................................................
System               Part Table LBA   # Boot     BCyl Head Sect FS      ECyl Head Sect       StartSect         NumSects
=========================================================================================================================
   On Disk Values:                0   0  80         0    0   2  EE      1023  255  63                1    4,294,967,295
   Calculated:                                      0    0   2        268401  230   4 

.........................................................................................................................
GPT Header Data:
     Signature:            EFI PART
     EFI Revision:         1.0
     Header Size:          92
     Header Checksum:      1575365194
     Primary LBA:          1
     Backup LBA:           5,860,533,167
     First Usable LBA:     34
     LastUsable LBA:       5,860,533,134
     Disk GUID:            14fa7e8b-4fcd-491f-89f6-05c4abeedc57
     Partition Entry LBA:  2
     Max # of Partitions:  128
     Partition Entry Size: 128
     Partition Array CRC:  3301932361

WARNING: Backup LBA is not valid in GPT header.

====================================================================================================================
Partition Information for Disk   0:               2.73 TB
Volume Path            PartitionType  Status         Size      Part Table Lba   #     Start Sector    Total Sectors
====================================================================================================================
Protective MBR         GPT Protect    Pri,Boot          2 TB                0   0                1    4,294,967,295
.........................................................................................................................................
GPT Partitions for Disk 0:        2.73 TB
#   Partion Type/Volume GUID            Sect Index  Attribute Bits              Start Sector                  End Sector    Size
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0  Microsoft reserved partition       
     05438da0-5e16-4d2f-9898-3f433437d571   2 0                 0                          34                     262,177    128 MB

     Unallocated Space                     -- -                --                     262,178                     264,191    1007 KB

N:\
  1  Basic data partition               
     1e6bf665-fd31-4a01-b760-62490d81148c   2 1                 0                     264,192               1,258,555,391    600 GB

P:\
  2  Basic data partition               
     71aacbff-7eb7-4625-b7a7-ecf3099975d2   2 2                 0               1,258,555,392               1,992,558,591    350 GB

WARNING:  Above partition extends beyond end of disk.

Q:\
  3  Basic data partition               
     cf7b1e71-f4e7-49fa-8148-487b2ee132dd   2 3                 0               1,992,558,592               3,984,852,991    950 GB

WARNING:  Above partition extends beyond end of disk.

M:\
  4  Basic data partition               
     316f915c-f8d6-4645-a426-9e40e1cae8b5   3 0                 0               3,984,852,992               4,804,052,991    391 GB

WARNING:  Above partition extends beyond end of disk.



- - - - - - - - - - Disk 0: Protective MBR (Sector 0) - - - - - - - - - - -

     0:  33 C0 8E D0 BC 00 7C 8E C0 8E D8 BE 00 7C BF 00        3м.|ؾ.|.
    10:  06 B9 00 02 FC F3 A4 50 68 1C 06 CB FB B9 04 00        ...Ph....
    20:  BD BE 07 80 7E 00 00 7C 0B 0F 85 0E 01 83 C5 10        .~..|.....
    30:  E2 F1 CD 18 88

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 12th, 2017 at 10:29pm
Bill, you are going to have to attach the entire txt file (partinfo.txt) as most of the info is missing from the above post. Or put it somewhere for us to download.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 12th, 2017 at 10:47pm
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Norton Ghost\Utility\PartInfo.exe"
    PID (5808)

Base Build Number: 35907    Base Build Date: Nov 26 2009  02:12:30
OsVersion:
    Generation:               Microsoft Windows 7
    Flavor:                   Windows Flavor Unknown
    OsArchitecture:           64-bit operating system
    KernelType:               Windows NT
    ProcessorArchitecture:    x64 (EM64T/AMD64)
    VersionNumber:            6.1.7601
    ServicePackVersionNumber: 1.0.0
    KernelVersionNumber:      0.0.0
    Path:                     file:///C:/Windows/
    ComputerName:             BillsPC
    Features:
        Execute64BitBinaries
        Execute32BitPrograms
        Hibernate
        MultipleMonitors
        NT4FTVolumes
        DynamicDisk
        NtfsLonghorn
        Fat32

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4930K CPU @ 3.40GHz
         (If cpu speed is specified, it is rated speed, which may not be current speed)
    CPU Vendor:         GenuineIntel
    CPU Signature:      000306e4      CPU Features:       bfebfbff
    Hyperthreads/core:        12      Cores/Package:             1
    Logical procs/pkg:        12      Number of packages:        1
    NX bit supported:                Yes      x64 Capable:                     Yes      Supports HW Virtualization:      Yes
    Virtual Addr Bits:        48      Physical Addr Bits:       46
    OS CPU Count:             12      Processor Mask:     00000fff
    Min App Addr:       00010000      Max App Addr:       FFFEFFFF
    Page Size:              4096
    Memory Usage:             6%
    Total Physical:     65475 MB
    Avail Physical:     60952 MB
    Total Page:         130949 MB
    Avail Page:         126352 MB
    Total Virtual:       4095 MB
    Avail Virtual:       4045 MB
    Avail Extended:         0 MB




=========================================================================================================================
Disk Geometry Information for Disk 0         Sector Count: 1,565,565,872   (1,023 Cylinders, 254 Heads, 63 Sectors/Track)
Signature: CF3E7862
Sector Size             Physical:  4096             Logical:  512
Detected Sector Size:   512
Cache Line Size:        0
Byte Alignment Factors  Sector:  0           Cache:   0
Detected Alignment:     None
.........................................................................................................................
System               Part Table LBA   # Boot     BCyl Head Sect FS      ECyl Head Sect       StartSect         NumSects
=========================================================================================================================
   On Disk Values:                0   0  80         0    0   2  EE      1023  255  63                1    4,294,967,295
   Calculated:                                      0    0   2        268401  230   4 

.........................................................................................................................
GPT Header Data:
     Signature:            EFI PART
     EFI Revision:         1.0
     Header Size:          92
     Header Checksum:      1575365194
     Primary LBA:          1
     Backup LBA:           5,860,533,167
     First Usable LBA:     34
     LastUsable LBA:       5,860,533,134
     Disk GUID:            14fa7e8b-4fcd-491f-89f6-05c4abeedc57
     Partition Entry LBA:  2
     Max # of Partitions:  128
     Partition Entry Size: 128
     Partition Array CRC:  3301932361

WARNING: Backup LBA is not valid in GPT header.

====================================================================================================================
Partition Information for Disk   0:               2.73 TB
Volume Path            PartitionType  Status         Size      Part Table Lba   #     Start Sector    Total Sectors
====================================================================================================================
Protective MBR         GPT Protect    Pri,Boot          2 TB                0   0                1    4,294,967,295
.........................................................................................................................................
GPT Partitions for Disk 0:        2.73 TB
#   Partion Type/Volume GUID            Sect Index  Attribute Bits              Start Sector                  End Sector    Size
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0  Microsoft reserved partition       
     05438da0-5e16-4d2f-9898-3f433437d571   2 0                 0                          34                     262,177    128 MB

     Unallocated Space                     -- -                --                     262,178                     264,191    1007 KB

N:\
  1  Basic data partition               
     1e6bf665-fd31-4a01-b760-62490d81148c   2 1                 0                     264,192               1,258,555,391    600 GB

P:\
  2  Basic data partition               
     71aacbff-7eb7-4625-b7a7-ecf3099975d2   2 2                 0               1,258,555,392               1,992,558,591    350 GB

WARNING:  Above partition extends beyond end of disk.

Q:\
  3  Basic data partition               
     cf7b1e71-f4e7-49fa-8148-487b2ee132dd   2 3                 0               1,992,558,592               3,984,852,991    950 GB

WARNING:  Above partition extends beyond end of disk.

M:\
  4  Basic data partition               
     316f915c-f8d6-4645-a426-9e40e1cae8b5   3 0                 0               3,984,852,992               4,804,052,991    391 GB

WARNING:  Above partition extends beyond end of disk.



- - - - - - - - - - Disk 0: Protective MBR (Sector 0) - - - - - - - - - - -

     0:  33 C0 8E D0 BC 00 7C 8E C0 8E D8 BE 00 7C BF 00        3м.|ؾ.|.
    10:  06 B9 00 02 FC F3 A4 50 68 1C 06 CB FB B9 04 00        ...Ph....
    20:  BD BE 07 80 7E 00 00 7C 0B 0F 85 0E 01 83 C5 10        .~..|.....
    30:  E2 F1 CD 18 88

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 12th, 2017 at 10:54pm
My file is 70kb Its exceeding the limit 6000 max
I could email it to you.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 12th, 2017 at 10:57pm
I just sent my email address in a Personal message.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 12th, 2017 at 11:19pm
Thanks for the partinfo. Your SSD is Disk 3. The geometry, partition alignment, MBR and boot sector are all fine So I'm afraid I can't find a cause for Ghost not seeing your C: drive.

Apart from BIBM, do you have any other TeraByte Unlimited software?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 12th, 2017 at 11:24pm
I know I have BBM, I don't remember anything else.
Is there something else from them that would help?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 12th, 2017 at 11:29pm
The web page where you downloaded BIBM will have any other bought products you own. Let me know. Otherwise use IFD (in BIBM) to do your imaging/restores. It's better than Ghost anyway.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 12th, 2017 at 11:53pm
https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/product-download.php

The name of your products will be in the dark blue rectangles.

You are licensed to use BIBM on 5 home computers you own.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by NightOwl on Jun 13th, 2017 at 11:30am
@ Mr Moose

I'm curious--is this your motherboard?:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/RAMPAGE_IV_BLACK_EDITION/specifications/

I looked at the User Guide for this product and it brings up some interesting issues with setup of SATA drives.

But, I won't comment until I know if this is, in fact, your motherboard.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by NightOwl on Jun 13th, 2017 at 11:51am
@ Brian and @ Mr Moose


I'm not a Ghost 15 user--so I don't know the various options available--but some random questions:

Does Ghost 15 have a way to manually scan and/or re-scan one's system to identify any changes that have been made to the installed HDDs--or is this supposed to be an *automatic* process?

@ Mr Moose

When you say that your SSD C:\ drive is not showing up in Ghost 15, can I assume you are talking about while you are booted to your Win7 OS?

Have you booted to the Ghost 15 Recovery Disc--and does the C:\ drive show up in that operating system?

Can you manually image your C:\ drive from the Ghost 15 Recovery Disc interface?

Back to the both of you:

Where does Ghost 15 get its information as to what HDDs are installed on a system? Does it come from its own scan, or is it asking the Win OS to present that information?

Is there an *.ini* file of some sort that has the list of HDDs found previously on the system? Can it be deleted and force Ghost 15 to re-scan for the HDDs present?

Is Ghost 15 getting its HDD list from Win OS registry? Can the registry listing for attached devices be deleted, and force the Win OS to re-scan and re-assign drive letters in the registry, and there by force Ghost 15 to get new information?

I wouldn't recommend doing major system changes (i.e. deleting the registry values for attached devices) unless you either have a good system image backup (from a manual backup from the Ghost 15 Recovery Disc if the C:\ shows up there and a manual backup can be done--or if an Image for DOS or Image for Linux backup has been created), or have a registry backup, or maybe a Restore Point would be adequate (but, I have never found that consistently reliable!).

Any chance, uninstalling Ghost 15 from Win 7, and then reinstalling Ghost 15 would trigger a relisting of the C:\ drive in Ghost 15's interface?

Don't know if any of these thoughts might help--but, perhaps worth some effort to try......

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 13th, 2017 at 9:39pm
I've also wondered if reinstalling ghost 15 might fix the problem.
What do you think Brian?

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 13th, 2017 at 9:50pm

Mr Moose wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 9:39pm:
I've also wondered if reinstalling ghost 15 might fix the problem.


Certainly worth trying. It worked here...

https://community.norton.com/en/forums/ghost-cant-see-any-my-drives-i-cant-backup

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 13th, 2017 at 9:54pm
OK, tomorrow I will reinstall Ghost 15.
I will report back.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 13th, 2017 at 9:57pm
@ NightOwl

I haven't used Ghost for many years even though I was involved in the Norton forum. I recall many threads about Ghost 15 not seeing the C: drive and in most cases it was due to the File System extending beyond the end of the partition. The cause of this mis-match was usually unknown although we blamed the Microsoft partitioner. Other imaging apps don't seem bothered by this issue so if Bill can't fix it I wouldn't be overly concerned. IFD is a far better app. If Bill owns IFW he could use this instead of IFD.

You will note Bill's P: Q: M: partitions have an overlap. It doesn't cause an issue except if it is C: drive with Ghost 15.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 14th, 2017 at 9:57pm
Brian

I reinstalled ghost 15.
Ghost still can't see C: drive.
In disk management I can see the partition that you had me make, but it's only 9 MB not the 10MB you asked for, I thought made it 10, hope that's not the problem.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 14th, 2017 at 10:00pm
Bill,

You can go into BIBM and resize that partition to Maximum size so there will not be any Unallocated free space following the Win7 partition. Worth a try but I doubt it will fix Ghost.

You still haven't let me know if you have Image for Windows.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 14th, 2017 at 10:24pm

Brian wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 10:00pm:
Bill,

You can go into BIBM and resize that partition to Maximum size so there will not be any Unallocated free space following the Win7 partition. Worth a try but I doubt it will fix Ghost.

You still haven't let me know if you have Image for Windows.


I'm not sure if I follow you.
In disk management I have 9MB of Unallocated space on the back side of C:
So you want the partition, but with NO space inside?

I don't remember Downloading Image For Windows. is this  Terabyte software?   

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 14th, 2017 at 10:51pm
The 9 or 10  MB of unallocated free space isn't a partition. Unfortunately, in BIBM it is in the partition column but it isn't a partition. It is free space outside of a partition.

In BIBM select the Win7 partition and click Resize. Use the arrows to make the partition Maximum Size. Apply, etc.

Now in Disk Management you won't see any free space following the Win7 partition.


Quote:
I don't remember Downloading Image For Windows. is this  Terabyte software?


Look at the page where you downloaded BIBM and see if you have other registered products.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 14th, 2017 at 11:17pm
Tomorrow night, I will take another look at this, as its to late.

Thanks, Bill.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by NightOwl on Jun 15th, 2017 at 10:37am
@ Mr Moose

Still wondering, is this your motherboard?

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/RAMPAGE_IV_BLACK_EDITION/specifications/

Comments?





Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 15th, 2017 at 4:29pm
Hi NightOwl,

Yes, It had everything I needed, probably more than I needed.

ASUS Rampage IV Black Edition LGA 2011 Intel X79
SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 15th, 2017 at 5:17pm
Brian

Back at reply 68 where you had me reduce the size of the Win 7 partition by 10 MB, were you instructing me to create a new partition, or unallocated space?
I thought I was creating a new partition, but not being all that familiar with BBM, I created unallocated space.
That's why I was supersized when I checked disk management and didn't see a 10MB partition.
Just to be sure, now we want to extend the Win 7 partition as large as I can make it?
I checked to see if I have Image For Windows, all I have is BBM
It says something about $10.00 off for IFW I think I'll spring for it, if we can't fix Ghost 15

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 19th, 2017 at 6:35pm
Bill,


Mr Moose wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 5:17pm:
Just to be sure, now we want to extend the Win 7 partition as large as I can make it?


That's correct. See if that fixes the Ghost issue. Please let us know.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 20th, 2017 at 9:38pm
Brian,

No luck, Ghost 15 still can't see C: drive.
It still can see my recovery point, which has a reference to C: drive.
Disk management lists C: drive as healthy.
Everything is working as far as I can tell, except Ghost.
I just can't believe that expensive software like this can brake down.
It's pretty much worthless now.   

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 20th, 2017 at 10:53pm
Bill,

Ghost does that I'm afraid. Can't see the C: drive.

Out of interest, how often would you image your C: drive? If it's weekly or less I suggest using IFD and I've posted instructions on backup/restore earlier in this thread. You could start the backup last thing at night and set the option to Shutdown when the backup has completed.

If you backup almost daily then you might find IFW more attractive. IFW does backups while Windows is running. IFD does backups from the BIBM boot disk.

Ghost 15 was last updated 5 years ago. IFD/IFW were last updated 3 weeks ago. IFW/IFD work with Win8 and Win10. Ghost 15 doesn't.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Mr Moose on Jun 21st, 2017 at 10:37pm
Brian,

I agree, Ghost 15 is old, and it needs to be retired.
I need to take a closer look, but Image for Windows IMO looks like the way to go.

Title: Re: To clone or to Image, what is the difference.
Post by Brian on Jun 22nd, 2017 at 12:12am
Bill,

If you get IFW I'll help you set it up. IFW comes with IFD (you already have it), IFL and TBOSDT. IFW, IFD and IFL can backup/restore Windows and Linux systems. IFW, IFD and IFL create and restore each others images so it doesn't matter which one you use at a particular time. I prefer backing up with IFW and restoring with IFL.

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