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How to increase existing partition size? (Read 5635 times)
bobrob
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How to increase existing partition size?
Jun 13th, 2002 at 8:19am
 
After enjoyable read of Rad's site last year on both Ghosting and Partitioning reloaded my Dell with a 7GB primary partition, "C" for XPOS and all my apps and made the rest of the 32GB HDD a partition "E" for working. Unfortunately I am now using over 6GB of programs in my graphics work and need to extend "C".
Am I correct in believing I need to Ghost an image of "C" to a partition on another physical HDD, copy the work on "E" to another partition on the same drive as the Ghost, - then I'm stuck not knowing how to reformat the main HDD so that I can Ghost the "C" image back to an expanded partition of say 11GB.
Dell Inspiron notebooks make life difficult in that the modular bay is used for the floppy as well as the extra HDD. I get Ghost going by using a CD and the inbuilt CDR/RW created as the first of a CD Ghost Image set.
Any suggestions appreciated. I also cannot understand the difference between an image and a clone as they both seem to be defined as taking a complete copy of EVERTHING on the partition or disc. Am I being dim?
 

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Rad
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Re: How to increase existing partition size?
Reply #1 - Jun 13th, 2002 at 12:59pm
 
an image is a *file* (*.gho). cloning simply *copies* all the data from one partition (or entire disk) to another. no image file is created during cloning.

i have had this problem before.

you didn't mention a D drive .. only C + E.

i think u can try to solve ur problem by moving some files from C to E, or deleting unnnecessary/unused files. create an image first tho, in case u move/delete the wrong files.

u can also use partition magic. it allows u to non-destructivily change partitioon sizes. the procedure would go something like this:

1. shrink logical dos drive E from the side closest to the C drive (~4 gigs).

2. shrink extended dos partition from same side, creating free space (same size as above).

3. expand primary partition to fill free space.

make sure you back everything up first. perform one task at a time, not all three.

PM is great but horror stories abound, so be prepared fro anything. create ghost image first.

reboot before launching PM. don't open any other apps. make it as simple for the prgm as possible.
 
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bobrob
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Re: How to increase existing partition size?
Reply #2 - Jun 13th, 2002 at 5:46pm
 
Thanks mate.
1. becos the info is copied into a file *.gho wot properties does it have that are different to just cloned info in a folder that is the partition? I'm thinking too much arent I.
2.My "D" is my CDR/RW. Why does noone use "B" to designate a drive?
3.I dont like the uncertainty of PM, reminds me of my ex's PMT and want to use the power of Ghost combined with reformating the main drive. I expected answer involving FDisc or GDisc (I have the latter with my Ghost2002). The operation of GDisc worried me since I have no experience with DOS commands.
4. I would have thought this was a fairly common requirement and use of Ghost?
5. My alternative would be to reformat my "E" drive full of work (but safely copied) into 2 partitions and put my apps into one of them. But I had thought that because of file sharing that XP was best on the same partition as my other programs. Does this matter??
appreciate any comment, Bob Roll Eyes
 

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Re: How to increase existing partition size?
Reply #3 - Jun 13th, 2002 at 7:50pm
 
If u read my ghost guide, it would answer a lot of ur questions and save me from having to retype them all over again. It contains 8 pages of goodies.

http://ghost.radified.com/

If you still have questions afterwards, let me know.
 
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bobrob
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Re: How to increase existing partition size?
Reply #4 - Jun 18th, 2002 at 2:13pm
 
Reply to Rad
Thankyou for your reply. I have now been successful. Not only had I printed and read several times your suggested site but also your partitioning theories, and many of the linked sites as well. As a newbie I can tell you that the nomenclature and semantics of your sites can be confusing. The use of the term clone/cloning seems confusing and at odds with Symantecs manual on Ghost2002. I eventually wrote my own definition in relation to Ghost2002 – see below. You’ll notice that it disagrees with your claim to have “never cloned anything”. While you know what you mean as an experienced user it is sometimes difficult to say things in a way that newbies will likewise understand.
     Similarly your use of the title “Restore a Ghost Image” I finally understood came to mean --  “Restoring the original data cloned” by the Image File. This may all seem like splitting hairs to you, but I have asked many people for help with this and am surprised that it’s so confusing. Looking at it now from the perspective of a successful user on a HDD to HDD, and partition to partition basis, I cant see WHY it was so confusing but only tell you it was!
     The added difficulty for me was that I have not been able to write from saved CD image file onto HDD or partition. As I mentioned the Dell Inspiron notebooks don’t allow a floppy attached when the 2nd HDD is in, and others like me have been unable to figure how to change their OS and Apps to a new larger HDD. I was unable to direct clone HDD to HDD or partition to partition, in spite of removing the HDD with direct clone before rebooting. (maybe the drive letter wasn’t changing?) I eventually cloned to an image file of the root partition onto a 3rd removable HDD and manually swapped the main drive to reboot using the image file. I did not want to overwrite the original OS until I saw the new one safely in place.
Although you have included Les Burns warning about removing the newly created drive before rebooting, neither this warning or the same several warnings in the Ghost2002 manual mentions that the drive will be successfully re-titled as “C” drive(or whatever the original was). I spent a lot of time wondering how this could be achieved and using Disc Manager in XP in vain. It all seems so obvious when you know how. If you could tweak your definitions a little I think it would help others.
My suggestions follow, ……….

Cloning means to create a complete copy including every system file, boot file, etc on a partition or disk. The clone is used in either of two ways.
The cloning task can be a direct clone (full copy); from disc to disc – but not disc to partition, or it can be partition to partition – provided the latter is onto a partition of another physical disk.
Alternatively the cloning task can result in an image file. The image file is written to another disc or a partition or CD-R (or other removable storage media) and can have compression options. The image file could be used as a backup copy to restore an operating system and applications for example, by loading the clone from the saved image file and overwriting the original location.

An Image file is often referred to incorrectly as an Image. While containing a clone or exact copy of all data, including boot files and other hidden files, it is not of itself used in the operation of the computer. It is a file that may have uncompressed, or compressed, data that when loaded by Ghost into a partition or disc will recreate the original partition or disc exactly including the drive letter.

 

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Rad
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Re: How to increase existing partition size?
Reply #5 - Jun 18th, 2002 at 3:12pm
 
Glad you got it working. Ghost can indeed be confusing. Surprisingly so. It was for me. This is the reason I wrote the guide.

Regarding the use of the term clone/cloning. You are correct that my def'n is at odds with Symantec's. You can find Symantec's posted here:

http://service4.symantec.com/SUPPORT/ghost.nsf/40c79ec65039a2b588256a0d004ca98e/...

I disagree with Symantec and feel that this is one more way they are confusing the user. Ghost need not be so confusing.

Before sharing my reasoning, I will say that I have had this Ghost guide posted for ~ 2years on this site, and for another year at friends' sites, and you're the first person to note the distinction. I'm not saying this is god or bad, only noting a data point.

Consider, also, that the Ghost guide itself receives at least 500 requests per day, and as many as 1500 request on some days, and you'll see that many eyes look at it.

Symantec says this:

"Clone and cloning

To copy the contents of a disk or partition, and then to either save those contents as an image file on another disk or partition, or write those contents directly to another disk or partition (writing over the disk or partition)."

Suppose I want to clone an army of Arnold Schwarzeneggers, to take over the world. And (like Symantec) I have two methods:

1. Put Arnold in a machine that stamps out exact duplicates (true cloning).
2a. Store all the data about Arnold (create an image)
2b. plug this data into another machine that creates new Arnolds from the stored data (restore an image)

Follow me?

Symantec is calling 2a 'cloning', but no Arnold is is created (cloned) by merely storing the data about him (height, weight, bicep size, hair color, etc.).

It isn't until we *restore* the image that we create another Arnold. But by then (weeks later, perhaps), the real Arnold (your actual hard drive contents) may have changed. So your 'clone' (bad way to use this term) is not a TRUE clone, cuz Arnold may have bigger arms, or changed his hair color .. or any of a million other variables.

See my point?

That's why I use the terms 'Create an Image' and 'Restore an Image' separately from the term 'Cloning'. To keep from confusing people.

You need to use whatever terms work for you, but I feel that using the term 'cloning' to refer to merely 'Creating an Image' is a misnomer that only confuses the issue ... and again, you're the only one in 3 years who has had a problem with it.

... which is why so many ppl request my Ghost guide every day.

The dictionary defines 'clone' as:

http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=clone

1. To make multiple identical copies of
4. To produce a copy of

NO COPY IS PRODUCED WHEN YOU CREATE AN IMAGE, OR STORE DATA ABOUT ARNOLD'S CURRENT CONFIG AT SOME POINT IN TIME.

It isn't until you RESTORE the image that you get another Arnold (produce a copy of).
 
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bobrob
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Re: How to increase existing partition size?
Reply #6 - Jun 18th, 2002 at 4:44pm
 
thank you for teaching me this.  Smiley
For many years I too have taught others, from Scuba diving to English Tower bell ringing - Campanology would you believe! and now help others from time to time starting out on computers. Suprising how much one learns by teaching. The crunch came some time back when a friend I had taught something years previously as part of a group, stunned me by revealing that those that didnt understand in their own way just gave up and went away without comment so I never knew they had either left their interest for good or sought revelation elsewhere. He had himself had professed understanding and muddled on without really getting the measure of it for years. I made a point of questioning students of all sorts of courses since (my own and others) and it's amazing how little honest feedback teachers get.
So my point is that site hits alone or even the unsolicited comments of students of an interest dont necessarily reflect that ones communication is as clear as one thinks.
You have done well and I think your Arnold is a good image. Strength to yer arm mate. cheers
 

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