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A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More! (Read 382783 times)
El_Pescador
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #210 - Apr 12th, 2006 at 7:32pm
 
Quote:
"... Took me 10 hours to work that out !..."

Check out the link below on using NightOwl's novel MS-DOS based Panasonic Universal USB Driver routine from inside Windows XP.  Be advised that the setup is made much easier by invoking
'My Computer > Tools > Folder Options > View tab > Show hidden files and folders'
.

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=11041...

EP
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #211 - May 8th, 2006 at 12:52pm
 
Question, what were using to map a drive letter to your usb drive?
 
 
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Michael
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #212 - Jun 5th, 2006 at 5:45am
 
I have an issue trying to use ghost to clone an internal ide HDD in a toshiba laptop to an external USB HDD.  Both drives are identical models.  With the standard iomega usb driver that comes with ghost (2003) ghost only sees the external USB drive and not the internal ide - I suspect this is because of the way ghost derives the drive id.

I tried the panasonic usb driver as described by Night-owl and others and hey presto Ghost now sees both drives BUT even though the driver reports the USB drive as HS the actual transfer rate when cloning is only about 90 Mb/Min which is incredibly slow. Can anyone suggest why this might be happening.

Thanks
 
 
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NightOwl
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #213 - Jun 5th, 2006 at 11:43am
 
Michael

That is kinda slow!  My system using USB 2.0 has about a 450 MB/min speed.

Interesting--first time I've seen your situation where the Iomega DOS USB driver sees the USB HDD, but the internal HDD goes missing--but the Panasonic DOS USB driver solves the issue.

What model laptop do you have?

What type of HDD controllers are on the system--IDE ATA or SATA?

What type of HDD is hooked up?
 

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Michael
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #214 - Jun 13th, 2006 at 2:58am
 
Hi Nightowl

The laptop is a Toshiba Tecra A4 with 1.73Ghz Centrino

Both the internal and external drives are IDE - Hitachi 80Gb 5400rpm (HTS541080G9AT00)

The external drive is connected via a targa usb enclosure.

Symantec claim the problem with the standard ghost boot floppy is that due to the way Ghost tries to assign an id to each drive because they are identical it can't generate a unique id?  Sounds a bit strange to me?
 
 
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #215 - Jun 13th, 2006 at 9:47am
 
Michael

Quote:
Symantec claim the problem with the standard ghost boot floppy is that due to the way Ghost tries to assign an id to each drive because they are identical it can't generate a unique id?

That sounds like a *punt* for *I don't know what's wrong!*.  I have several *identical* HDD's on my system (internal and in an enclosure kit), and they all work fine in DOS and with Ghost.

Quote:
The external drive is connected via a targa usb enclosure.

Enclosures are notorious for causing DOS USB compatibility problems--I'm using an Adaptec USB enclosure without problems--if the Ghost or Panasonic DOS USB drivers will not work--then I'm afraid the only other option I know of is trying a different enclosure with better compatibility.
 

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Serville
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #216 - Jun 20th, 2006 at 1:14pm
 
This might be a stupid question, but I have just spent 3 hours problem solving a stupid mistake, but yet I learnt something from it too.

I accidentally found this forum, and read this thread about using Ghost with USB 2.0 external hd.  Since I've never tried it, I become interested to try.  I prepared everything according to instructions here.  Instead of using diskette, I used my external bootable 2.5" USB2.0 hd.
I modified the config.sys & autoexec.bat to load usbaspi.sys & di1000dd.sys, and mouse.com appropriately.  I ghosted my Inspiron boot drive without a problem getting avg. 460-490 MB/min.  Then I tried on my desktop computer, booted directly from the USB2.0 hd, all the drivers loads without a problem, and Ghost could see my external USB2.0 hd.  I tried on another external 3.5" USB2.0 hd, and again it was also successful.  This is actually where my stupidity & innocence came up.......and I still have not realized..........until later.

Next, I modified the config.sys to remove all the remarks and saved it.   I tried booting again, and this time I had a BIG problem.   The O/S failed to load....."missing or corrupted di1000dd.sys & command.com".  I got puzzled.....all I did is removing the remarks !
I tried on the other 3.5" USB 2.0 hd with the same config.sys , and again it failed with the same error.  I tried them both on my Inspiron and I got the same problem again this time.  What the hell is happening !!! 

Finally I realized something.  Apparently the first time I tried successfully, I didn't rename config.sys correctly.  It was confih.sys, which means the drivers were actually NOT LOADED.  But it booted no problem, and Ghost STILL SAW my external hd.
But when edited the config.sys, and saved it ...this time with the correct name config.sys, it didn't boot correctly.  I got completely puzzled.....

CORRECT CONFIG.SYS /loaded drivers   ---> fail to boot  ("corrupted di000dd.sys & command.com")
UNLOADED CONFIG.SYS /unloaded drivers  ---> booted properly and Ghost could see my ext. hd no problem.

I puzzled how in the world, without a driver, Ghost could actually see my ext. hd ???
But when I loaded the correct driver, it actually gave me a problem.
The logic seems reversed.

But then I realize....why do I need USB2.0 driver for DOS when the computer bios apparently has USB2.0 storage support, which can be accessed by the user even in DOS mode (even in Ghost) ?    In fact, by loading another USB2.0 aspi & mass storage driver, it makes a hardware conflict with the Bios.

Most/if not all mobos with USB2.0 should support access to ext USB2.0 drives directly without the need of a driver.
Am I missing something ?
 
 
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NightOwl
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #217 - Jun 20th, 2006 at 3:31pm
 
Serville

Quote:
Most/if not all mobos with USB2.0 should support access to ext USB2.0 drives directly without the need of a driver.
Am I missing something ?

Probably not *missing something*--but the timing!

Newer systems where the BIOS supports booting from USB devices have DOS USB support built-in as you have reported--and that's *sweet*, but that's only been available widely in the last year or two.  Last 2-4 years--USB 2.0 common, but no DOS support built-in--and no booting from a USB device.  Beyond that--5-6 years ago--only USB 1.1 or 1.0--and no booting from a USB device!

So, for most folks, the statement *Most/if not all mobos with USB2.0 should support access to ext USB2.0 drives directly* does not apply unless it's newer than 1-2 years--and probably closer to that *1 year* than the *2 year*!

How old is your system?

Laptop or Desktop?

Model of Motherboard/system?

What are the BIOS options for USB support to select from--just what device to boot from--other settings?
 

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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #218 - Jun 20th, 2006 at 4:40pm
 
I think this is the first thread we should induct into the Rad hall of fame.

~33K reported page-views, and I think we actually lost another 20K somewhere.
 
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El_Pescador
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #219 - Jun 20th, 2006 at 5:46pm
 
Quote:
"... Most/if not all mobos with USB2.0 should support access to ext USB2.0 drives directly without the need of a driver.  Am I missing something ?..."

The two tables below illustrate USB 2.0 host controller and USB 2.0 device controller specifications I have managed to glean while trying to ensure compatibility of USB 2.0 external HDD enclosure kits with DOS-based Norton Ghost 2003:

...

...

Both the USB 2.0 bridge chipset and the counterpart USB 2.0 device controller software have to be NEC-compliant for either the "Windows-to-DOS-to-Windows" mode or straight DOS operations with Norton Ghost 2003, and maybe even for certain phases of Norton Partition Magic 8.0.

From what I can tell up to now (with very rare exception), USB 2.0 host controllers generally shake out to either
VID=8086h
or
VID=1033h
.  So, what I am now able to do with a fair degree of certainty is counsel someone as to: (1) whether or not they will need a PCI-to-USB Host Adapter Card despite having USB 2.0 ports on their systemboard - and which model cards are compliant with Ghost 2003 operations; and (2) whether or not adopting NightOwl's Panasonic Universal USB Drivers routine will render their hitherto incompatible external enclosure kit Ghost 2003-compatible.

Based on the most recent performances you describe, I will just about bet that your USB 2.0 host controllers are in the
VID=1033h
catergory (as opposed to the hallmark
VID=8086h
of the
poisonous
Intel 80281EB).

On the host end of the "bridge", the useful items are in properties of only those terminal "branch(es)" on the Universal Serial Bus controllers "tree" containing the word
'Enhanced'
.  On the destination end of the "bridge", the useful items are in properties of only those terminal "branch(es)" on the Universal Serial Bus controllers "tree" containing the phrase
'Mass Storage Device'
.

To take a shot at revealing the particulars of both your
USB 2.0 host controller(s)
and your
USB 2.0 device controller(s)
, follow the procedure below:

(1) go to Desktop and right click on My Computer;

(2) drop down to left click on Manage;

(3) in left pane, expand System Tools;

(4) in left pane, drop down to left click on Device Manager;

(5) for both USB controllers and mass storage devices in right pane, expand Universal Serial Bus controllers;

(6) for USB Mass Storage Devices, skip down to (7) -
else
for USB 2.0 controllers, focus on those lines containing either the abbreviation
'USB2'
or the word
'Enhanced'
, then go to (7);

(7) right click on any such lines that drop down, then left click on Properties;

(8) left click on the Details tab;

(9) left click on the dropdown menu containing Device Instance Id; and

(10) left click on
Hardware Ids
and carefully transcribe the last two lines in the window. To be overly generous, drop down two more lines and repeat for
Matching Device Id
.

The image below reveals the functional USB 2.0 controller on the Macally PHR-100A enclosure (note that on my Dell Dimension 8300, I have three
'Enhanced'
USb controllers listed - including the
poisonous
Intel 80281EB):

...

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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #220 - Jun 22nd, 2006 at 11:41am
 
Quote:
You could do what David_L6 does... buy Dell parts and components off eBay and swap out your CPU ... LOL !!! I'm serious - he really does.

The first table below illustrates USB 2.0 host controller specifications while the second does likewise for USB 2.0 device controllers.  If you are up to taking a shot at it, how about performing some trials for us and reporting back so I can flesh out these tables with specifications from your rig?

img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/El_Pescador/HostHdws.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/El_Pescador/HDDHdws.jpg

From what I can tell up to now, USB 2.0 host controllers for desktop PCs have eventually shaken out to either
VID=8086h
or
VID=1033h
- and no other thusfar.  So, what I am now able to do with a fair degree of certainty is counsel someone as to: (1) whether or not they will need a PCI-to-USB Host Adapter Card despite having USB 2.0 ports on their systemboard - and which model cards are compliant with Ghost 2003 operations; and (2) whether or not adopting NightOwl's Panasonic Universal USB Drivers routine will render their hitherto incompatible external enclosure kit Ghost 2003-compatible.

On the host end of the "bridge", the useful items are in properties of only those terminal "branch(es)" on the Universal Serial Bus controllers "tree" containing either the word
'Enhanced'
or the abbreviation
'USB2'
.  Knowing the particulars of your
USB 2.0 host controller
is critical, so by following the procedure below such will become evident:

(1) go to Desktop and right click on My Computer;

(2) drop down to left click on Manage;

(3) in left pane, expand System Tools;

(4) in left pane, drop down to left click on Device Manager;

(5) for both USB controllers and mass storage Devices in right pane, expand Universal Serial Bus controllers;

(6) for USB Mass Storage Devices, skip down to (7) -
else
for USB 2.0 controllers, focus on those lines containing either the abbreviation
'USB2'
or the word
'Enhanced'
then go to (7);

(7) right click on any such lines that drop down, then left click on Properties;

(8) left click on the Details tab;

(9) left click on the dropdown menu containing Device Instance Id; and

(10) left click on
Hardware Ids
and carefully transcribe the last two lines in the window. To be overly generous, drop down two more lines and repeat for
Matching Device Id
.

While the image below is set to reveal the functional USB 2.0 controller on the Macally PHR-100A external HDD enclosure kit, take note that right above the red arrow is one of my Dell Dimension 8300's three
'Enhanced'
USB controllers - the Intel 80281EB is integrated into the motherboard while the other two are on PCI-to-USB host adapter cards:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/El_Pescador/PHR100AAs.jpg

If we are aware of what is both on the host end and on the device end of your USB 2.0 "bridge", then our knowledge base certainly increases.  For
"grins and giggles"
, how about using the stock Norton/Iomega drivers that automatically come with the PC-DOS option when generating a Standard Ghost Boot Disk in the Norton Ghost Boot Wizard; then, use the stock boot disk to perform an Image Integrity Check on an existing Backup image and document any stoppages that occur - IF ANY !!!  If there are NONE, that is even more important as either way we will know the degree of compatibility your USB 2.0 host/device controller bridge enjoys with Ghost 2003 and can counsel others in the future.  

El Pescador

 
 
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #221 - Jun 22nd, 2006 at 1:29pm
 
David_L6 wrote on Jun 22nd, 2006 at 11:41am:
"... on Aug 19th, 2005, 11:22am, El_Pescador wrote:..."


At the time, little did
El_Pescador
know that his "corner-of-the-world" would be reduced to Third-World status in just ten more days.

EP Cry
 

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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #222 - Aug 15th, 2006 at 1:01pm
 
New to the board, and just wanted to say thanks to everyone (specially Nightowl and El Pescador) for all the help/work they've done in putting all this together. 

I've got one more piece to add to the puzzle though.  After  making a bootable usb flash drive (got that working without too much hassle), mainly so that I could change the tools and config.sys/autoexec.bat file around a bit easier without having to burn a new cdrom everytime I wanted to try something new.

Then, I spent 3-4 days trying to get said bootable flash drive to see my external usb hard drive or dvd burner, but could not get it going.  Even with the panasonic usb drivers. I kep getting "target usb device not found".  I've tried duse, iomega, all three versions of the Panasonic drive, and nothing would work.

I finally read serville's post about how the BIOS is allowing ghost to see his external usb drives.  So, on a whim, plugged my external hard drive in, then booted from the original cdrom disk with all my tools.  Note, the USB flash drive is not plugged in at this point.   After booting, I can see the external usb hard drive.  I'm guessing that the bios is limiting me to only 1 usb "drive".  Anyone else ever heard of this limitation?  Unfortunately, this is on laptops that are on loan to my company, and the BIOS is locked so I can't get in an play around.

I'm getting ready to test saving an image to the usb drive.  I'll post if successful.

Dave (who know has a few more grey hairs).
 
 
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #223 - Aug 26th, 2006 at 8:47pm
 
NightOwl-

I love this thread, when reading I decided to first read the topic before trying it out. Not realizing that it is a thread which covers over more than 2 years and 15 pages of info. I am a beginning amateur you see, I feel somewhat like a “information overload” little bit lost where to start, what is the most updated driver and “bug fixed” latest config & autoexe files.

I followed your step-by-step guide “Creating Bootable CD/DVD's Without A:\Floppy Drive” white success in the first attempt! I think I’m not only speaking for my self in saying I would love to see your step-by-step guide of the above motioned guide+Panasonic USB& PartitionMagic Support.

I know somewhere in those 15 pages all the info is there, but don’t feel qualified to pick out the “right info”.
In Reply #207 Pleonasm suggested the use of NTFS_DOS. It sounds good to me, but I have no clue how that works.

Noot:
As your “project 4” you said you like to create a “Utility Bootable CD/DVD Disc” the “coolest” Utility CD I found so far is http://www.ubcd4win.com in contrary to Bart’s PE & Ultimate Boot CD 3.4. I was able to create I at the first attempt and its somewhat mind blowing. (but I don’t like to use it in combination with Ghost for the simple reason your bootable CD loads much faster and does the job perfectly)
 
 
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #224 - Sep 4th, 2006 at 1:58am
 
Quote:
Just need to add the following.  Use the /w on the USBASPI.SYS.  Make sure the drive is off when you start up the computer and wait until you get prompted with the /w swich to turn on the drive then swith it on and continue the process.  This small detail stopped this wonderfull USB driver from working in Ghost causing Ghost to crash with an 36000 inconsitency error.

Took me 10 hours to work that out !

GX270 using FIreDock USB 2.0

Also Himem.sys  didn't load as Dell aparently had one already loaded.


I wonder if "EL PESCADOR" still around because the above procedure worked for me on those pesky USB controllers.
Basically it prompts you to connect the USB device and press ENTER, my speed increased from 45mb/m to 750mb/m with USBASPI.SYS ver 2.2 using the embedded El Pescador procedure on a Dell laptop without floppy http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=11041...
To get MS-DOS without a floppy into GHOST 2003 I used the subst trick.
My config.sys looked like this:
Config.sys additions
[COMMON]
DOS = high, umb
DEVICE = HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE = usbaspi.sys /e /v
/w

DEVICE = di1000dd.sys
rem : Panasonic USB drivers
rem : MS-DOS type
Assign drive letters to external storage devices

I succesfully cloned partition to partition whithin XP GUI. NO CD required

Thanks all for the hard work.

 
 
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