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Rad home political... (Read 11674 times)
chaz_s1
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Rad home political...
Oct 14th, 2004 at 9:47pm
 
I seldom involve my self with these type of offerings, but going to a Tech related site and finding political rhetoric and propaganda ....well pisses me off...so in response to this...Several readers sent this link (cost of war.com). Watch your tax dollars being spent, real-time. This is money our government don't even have; it's borrowed money that your kids will have to repay (with interest). Sadly, the numbers don't stop spinning when you close the browser page. And there seems to be no end in sight. Someone is obviously making a lot of money off this war. Tongue 
  Grin Grin    Unfortunately there are those and will always be those who believe you can sit down and talk to these people rationally, I guess you Idealists havent watched any of the beheadings...or have a very short memory ie...9/11 . It is in my best good conscience that I condone every aspect of this war....and if I were a few years younger I would gladly put myself in harms way to save the life of some unsuspecting civilian about to be butchered or blown up. I wonder if any of you armchair qb's would get off your ass and do something or stand by watching and cowering. If you people believe all the BS that the liberal american media spoon feeds you every day you really are the epitomy of that tired old cliche' "Ignorance is bliss""

Of course, the real cost of this war can't be measured in tax dollars. The notion of a "free Iraq" might represent a lofty ideal, but the reality of the situation on the ground is sadly becoming clear, more so each day. There was obviously a lack of foresight and planning going into this thing.

This is whats wrong with america today....we live in a disposable society....we have a very short memory and demand instant gratification....The soldiers who are in Iraq and Afganistan are there willingly...If it weren't for them and others like them you all would be speaking something other than English....The real cost of this war cannot BE MEASURED...assholes....THE COST OF WOMEN AND CHILDRENS LIVES HAVE NO PRICETAG. 

The remainder of today's entry is blogged here:> Cost of the War.
 
 
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Rad
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Re: Rad home political...
Reply #1 - Oct 14th, 2004 at 10:08pm
 
Thx for posting your comments. You are not obligated to read anything posted on this site. It costs you nothing and I don't even bother my readers with advertising banners.

Furthermore, I provide ample opportunity for you/them to express their views, whether they agree or disagree.

Personally, I like many things about GWB. I voted for him and consider myself a republican, but on 9/11 (which I haven't forgot), he and his administration failed in the biggest screw up in our nation's history. That is not a point any "liberal" media has made. It is a conclusion I came to myself.

We pay the government tons of money to keep us safe. That's thier job. It's their number one job (or should be). It's certainly their most important job. And I contend that anytime innocent civilians are forced to decide between leaping to their certain death and being burned alive, as a result of some terrorist attack on our soil, that's a good indicator our government has failed the people.

http://radified.com/911/911_jump_01.htm

So yeah, I find fault with the administration for dropping the ball on 9/11. And I'm not the only one:

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm

The White House fought tooth and nail to keep that commission from being formed. Why do you think that is? If they had nothing to hide? It's clear now, I regret to say, that the White House was being run by a bunch of incompetents. Read the report for yourself. (I'm guessing you haven't, or you wouldn't be posting dumb shit here.) They failed: plain & simple.

I also chat daily with people from all over the planet. People who are neither republican or democrat, neither liberal or conservative. Not one feels our government is making the world a safer place. On the contrary.

Maybe if George would've went to Viet Nam, and experienced what it's like to have bullets wizzing by his head, he's be a little less eager to send our young men into harm's way. But he chose to avoid the draft. He could have enlisted and served in Viet Nam if he wanted. That was certainly his option, but he chose to stay at home. Talk about

Quote:
getting off his cowardly ass or standing by and cowering in the air national guard".

Oh, and by the way, I spent 6 years in the military, stationed aboard an operating ballistic missile nuclear-powered submarine, homeported out of Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, where I ran a reactor plant for them. So I gladly served my country, thank-you very much.

Again, I sincerely appreciate your dissenting views. If you don't like mine, remember that nobody is forcing you to read them or come to this site. Everything you find here is gratuitous. It costs me money to host this site (US$16/month) and I ask nothing in return.
 
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Rad
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Re: Rad home political...
Reply #2 - Oct 15th, 2004 at 3:57am
 
Re: "one the highest COST/BENEFIT ratios with that $16 monthly "  Smiley

Saddam was a psychopath with patience. Nobody denies that. The fact that no WMDs were found in Iraq confirms that sanctions *were* working. Now we have other psychopaths with *real* (i.e. nuclear) WMDs. Are we going to invade North Korea next? Oh, that's right, they don't have any oil.  Angry

Many people dispute whether we should've invaded Iraq, or they argue over HOW we should've invaded. My beef with the current administration is much simpler than that: the magnitude of attacks suffered on our soil on 9/11 - by definition - signals ineptitude.

If you pay someone to do something, and they don't don't do it, will you hire them again? Not likely. The fact that no one was fired following 9/11 means GWB found no fault with the way things were being run, or was unwilling to hold anyone personally responsible.

The Iraq fiasco aside, our government screwed up on 9/11. The worst such screw-up in out nation's history.  For that, the administration forfeits the right to govern our nation. Let's hope the next bunch gets it right.

btw - lemme just thank you for your support here Mr. EP.
 
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Rad
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Re: Rad home political...
Reply #3 - Oct 15th, 2004 at 9:27am
 
I don't see how anyone could call you wacked-out when we were in fact attacked in '93. I mean, the evidence was there: explosion, smoke, broken glass, etc.
 
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chaz_s1
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Re: Rad home political...
Reply #4 - Oct 16th, 2004 at 3:18am
 
Hmmm, where to begin...First off I'm not really that big a fan of W, hes not much of a republican...more middle of the road, he was smart enough to listen to 41 and surround himself with some very wise and notable people... Secondly it seems such a daunting...yet challenging task of trying to educate the meek....Lets begin with the liberals ...who by the way had 2555 days after the first attack on the WTC, as opposed to hmm, 226 days for the "incompetents in the White House", after having it vandalized by their predecessors, along with quite abit more...like chopping the hell out of the defense budget (675mil) Intelligence budgets(3.2bil)to pay for social programs and bolster their deficit redux plan...it wasn't only the attack in 93, the Kobar towers, the Cole..the list goes on and on, did you mention incompetents??? The comissish places blame on the "infrastructure" not the Executive...YOu have a lot of reading to do...BTW, I was an airdale in 72-4,and then  USNR NAS S.Weymouth...I work in and around Bath Ironworks now and grew up in Groton...I know a lot of old salts. You are no squid...ever hear of Cmdr Dickie? I bet not...And I seriously doubt you possess a CERTIFIABLE dd214...Any way you can use your tech site to promote your weak minded political views. I'm just thankful that at least half the people in this country(USA) are realists and do their thinking for themselves instead of the sheep the lefties are trying to buy with their welfare dollars...which by the way WE pay for...     1%...always have been
 
 
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Re: Rad home political...
Reply #5 - Oct 16th, 2004 at 3:49am
 
Hi. Thx for responding:

Re: "he was smart enough to listen to 41 "

In his book, 41 mentioned the reasons why he didn't go into Iraq after the 1st gulf war. George should've read his father's book and heeded his advice.

Re: "Lets begin with the liberals"

You sound anti-liberal. I do not stereotype people into such groups. I know it takes a little more intellectual energy to evaluate each person and decision on its own merits, but, I think, if you do, you'll see the world a little differently. I agree & disagree with policies from both sides. I think that people who either agree or disagree with everything one group does or says is weak-minded and naive.

Which is why you never heard me singing the praises of liberals, Conservatives, republicans or democrats. Stupidity knows no political or idealogical boundaries. But if conservatism is your bag, then George's record budget deficits must be killing you .. the biggest increase in spending in our nation's history. It's simple fiscal irresponsibility. Who's gonna pay all that money back? Of course, nothing is George's fault, because he takes responsibility for nothing that goes wrong. All he can do is make excuses, which is one of his greatest talents.

Re: "the Kobar towers, the Cole..the list goes on and on"

All these added together don't begin to scratch the surface of what happened on 9/11. The level of incompetence we saw on 9/11 was in a whole 'nuther league.

Re: The comissish places blame on the "infrastructure""

The 9/11 commission made it a point (regrettably) not to assign blame, but anyone with a sixth-grade reading level can easily see the incompetence at the administration level. The comish said all the clues were there, but nobody connected the dots. We pay the government to connect the dots. (i.e. they failed).

A month before the attacks the president was handed a security briefing (the now infamous PDB) saying Bin Laden determined to attack inside the US, while Arabs were taking flying lessons in our schools where they don't want to learn how to land. What are they doing with billions of tax dollars we give them for national security? Do they need Osama to call with flight numbers and departure times? If they're not going to do the job, they shouldn't take the money.

I honestly think GWB's years of alcoholism have damaged his ability to make sound, rational decisions. His inability to admit mistakes is a personality defect commonly associated with alcoholics. I actually like a lot about the guy, character-wise. I just don't think he possesses the intelligence (no pun intended) necessary to be president. Whatever part of the brain is responsible for foresight, I think that's the part that was damaged by his years of alcoholism.

I also find it hard to respect a man who dodged the draft by having his daddy get him into the national guard, altho I can certainly understand it. But it looks hypocritical for him to now send boys to die in Iraq when he himself wouldn't go to Viet Nam. You see no inconsistency there?

Re: "I seriously doubt you possess a CERTIFIABLE dd214"

Why the emphasis on "certifiable"? I have dd214, honorable. Do you really care? I'd be honored if you do. I agree with your views on social programs (welfare dollars).

Dickie, the name sounds familiar, but I can't say I know who you're talking about? That makes me a non-squid?  Smiley  I wish it were that easy. I spent most of my time in the Pac fleet, stationed at Pearl Harbor & Bangor, Washington, at the new Trident base there.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/facility/bangor.htm

Talk about some serious WMDs. Both nice places, tho.

Gotta go .. "Full Metal Jacket" is on HBO tonight (Stanley Kubrick):

http://www.historyinfilm.com/jacket/
 
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Re: Rad home political...
Reply #6 - Oct 17th, 2004 at 1:52am
 
chaz_s1

Quote:
and if I were a few years younger I would gladly put myself in harms way to save the life of some unsuspecting civilian about to be butchered or blown up.


Now I feel badly about myself, because this person typed this in an internet forum thread....   Hmmm,..... no!  Now I remember...people who pound their breast and proclaim their greatness thusly usually belong to this group:

Quote:
I wonder if any of you armchair qb's would get off your ass and do something or stand by watching and cowering.


Quote:
The real cost of this war cannot BE MEASURED...assholes....
and Quote:
Lets begin with the liberals ...


If the thesis of your arguments boil down to 'labeling' and 'name-calling', then the substance of your arguments is rather shallow.
 

No question is stupid...but, possibly the answers are  Wink !
(This is an old *NightOwl* user account--not in current use.  Current account is NightOwl without a dash at the end.)
 
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Rad
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Re: Rad home political...
Reply #7 - Oct 17th, 2004 at 3:42pm
 
I appreciate all comments, pro & con, for that's how we learn.

Re: Quote:
"IMHO, no man who strapped on a Convair F-102A Delta Dagger can be categorized as a draft-dodger"


I doubt GWB knew when he was going in the Air national Guard what type of plane he would be flying.

Even still, flying a plane state-side, no matter how unreliable it might be, is a far cry from dodging bullets in the jungles of Viet Nam.

He had the opportunity to serve in Viet Nam and chose not to. And if his daddy didn't have such political pull, that's exactly where he would've wound up. And if he went to Viet Nam, there's a good chance he might not be here today.

I think the decisions he is making today are a direct result of not having to serve in Viet nam. Said another way, I feel that if he *did* serve in Viet Nam, he would be making very different decisions today, regarding our troops in Iraq.

You might've heard about the soldiers who recently refused to follow orders to go on a mission. If you've ever been in the military, you know how big of a deal it is to refuse to follow orders. This tells me the administration is out of touch with what it means to serve in Iraq, because neither GWB or Dick Cheney even served in the military.
 
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Re: Rad home political...
Reply #8 - Oct 17th, 2004 at 8:28pm
 
Quote:
Tell me what is dishonorable


I never used the word "dishonorable". But George never had to "risk his life" against a Communist attack, which is quite different from the boys in Nam who *did* risk their lives in the jungles there, where the attacks & deaths were very, very real.

Not one single person in the Air National Guard ever lost their life due to an attack from communists in Cuba. Maybe this is why the waiting list to get into the Air National Guard was so long, and why kids getting into the ANG needed someone with political pull to get them in.

This might also be why many of our boys went to Canada .. to avoid the draft .. cuz they didn't want to die in the jungles of Viet Nam, like so many of their friends were.

George could've made the decision to go to Nam. I'm pretty sure his daddy could've got him into Nam much more easily than the Texas ANG. But he chose not to go to Nam. He chose to stay home state-side. Do you think this might be because there was much less chance of getting killed in the states than in the jungles of Nam? I do.

I'm not even faulting him for making that decision. Face with the same options, I would've made the same decision. Indeed, I feel any rational person would've opted to stay state-side, rather than have to fight in the jungles on Nam. I simply feel that this decision he made, and the ensuing experiences (or lack of it) has affected the decisions he makes today, making it easier for him to send our youth into harm's way, where so many of them are dying.

In other words, he's ordering boys be sent to a foreign land to die for their country when he himself would not. Therein is where I see hypocrisy.  

You see no such hypocrisy with that? You don't feel that if he would've gone to the jungles of Nam, and learned first-hand what's it's like to be shot at, that he wouldn't be a little more reluctant to send boys into harm's way, where they might die and wind up coming home in a body bag? Or that he might be a little less eager to send them?
 
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Re: Rad home political...
Reply #9 - Oct 18th, 2004 at 6:31am
 
Why did you delete your posts?
 
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Re: Rad home political...
Reply #10 - Oct 23rd, 2004 at 7:43pm
 
Dear Rad
A republican points out the failures of GB
October 23, 2004
Bush's Choices May Be 'Tough,' but My Choice Is Not
by Leonard Maluf

To: Ed Gillespie
Chairman, Republican National Committee

Dear Mr. Gillespie:

Your letter informed me that I have been chosen to take part in the census of the Republican Party as a representative of all Republicans living in my area. It is doubtful that my view of the party's presidential candidate represents that of most party members in my district. However, the Republicans I know personally share many of the concerns I take this occasion to express – on a matter of considerable bearing on the future direction of our party, in light of the upcoming elections.

I voted for Mr. Bush in the last presidential election because he promised us an America with a more humble foreign policy. I will not vote for him again this year because he has not made good on that promise.

I have been critical of what Mr. Bush calls a "war on terror" from the moment the term was used. It quickly came to suggest adopting the mentality of the terrorists in order to fight them, and I believe that is exactly what Mr. Bush has done. He speaks in terms that imply a completely innocent America, on the side of unqualified good, squared off against those "not on our side," who are therefore on the side of absolute evil. This is the same kind of black and white thinking that informs the world-view of Mr. bin Laden. By adopting such a simplistic mentality in response to terrorist actions, Mr. Bush has p
Republicans and Democrats agree on very little. But since Sept. 11, 2001, the two parties appear to share a point of view I have often heard expressed as follows: "The worst thing that could happen to the United States of America is another 9/11-type attack." I disagree.

Horrible as such a physical assault would be, a far worse disaster, in my view, would be our own moral failure if we were to adopt the terrorists' "might makes right" stance and their reckless disregard for the value of human life. This is hardly an unrealistic concern, given the paranoia and the trigger-happy revenge mentality that has flourished in large segments of American society since the 9/11 attacks. To resist this wave of irresponsible militarism and false patriotism is to follow an ancient wisdom that dates back to the age of Socrates, who insisted with utmost clarity that no greater evil can befall a nation than its own moral corruption.

Our country responded with strong emotions – anger, frustration, desire for retaliation – to the terror attack of 2001. Such an initial reaction was both understandable and appropriate. And it was also normal and appropriate that the president of the United States would share these emotions at an instinctive level, as an immediate reaction to the horrors of that day. It was the next step that was vitally important to watch.

As moral leader of a great country, it was the duty of our president to transcend the emotional upheaval and fury triggered by that attack, and to ensure that America's reaction in the world arena would proceed not from reckless rage, but from the universal good as apprehended by reason – which is supposed to guide human and civil behavior in all circumstances.

In my opinion, Mr. Bush failed to articulate a rationally grounded response to the terrorist threat. Instead, he reacted to the attack of 9/11 like a frightened and enraged animal, stoking the fires of passion in the American populace instead of leading the country forward beyond blind anger to a well-reasoned response. Such intemperate action represents a monumental failure in one who would aspire to lead any human community – but especially the world's lone superpower.

A rational response to the attacks on America would have included, in the first place, an honest look inward – a truth-seeking self-examination, which would have revealed long-standing injustices in our own foreign policy that have fueled the rage behind the murderous actions of terrorists throughout the world.

Self-directed scrutiny would also have uncovered disturbing negligence in terms of what was left undone to prepare for or, more importantly, to prevent the 9/11 attacks. You ask in your census survey: "Do you support President Bush's initiatives to promote the safety and security of all Americans?" I find it difficult to answer that question without first strongly indicting Mr. Bush's failure to accept any responsibility for the intelligence and security failures of his administration prior to 9/11.
 
 
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Re: Rad home political...
Reply #11 - Oct 23rd, 2004 at 7:47pm
 
part2:
"Saddam was a threat." So runs the mantra Mr. Bush repeats in his attempt to justify America's unprovoked war of aggression on a third-world country that did not attack us, and that had no capability of doing so. The president appears to believe that any thinking mind would move inexorably from this bald statement (assuming, for the sake of argument, that it is true) to the conclusion that he was justified in launching a preemptive war against Iraq – one that would inevitably kill thousands of innocent Iraqis and well over a thousand young Americans, not to mention seriously injuring many thousands more.

There were plenty of alternative actions that could have been taken and that were in fact being taken to deal with the threat, such as it was, that Mr. Hussein posed to American and world security. In spite of his protests to the contrary, Bush was clearly not interested in those options. His determination to go to war with Iraq was patent, and his frequent protestations that war would be for him a last option were dishonest in the extreme.

"Americans at least know exactly where I stand, what I believe" is another of Bush's favorite slogans these campaign days. Frankly, what Mr. Bush believes does not interest me in the least. As president of the United States, he should act in a rationally and morally defensible way, one based on objective facts and values. He did not do so when he chose to take America to war with Iraq, and his repeated assertion that "we did the right thing" does nothing to diminish the foolishness and immorality of his decision.

We are supposed to sympathize with Bush because, as he tirelessly reminds us in his stump speeches, his determination to go to war all over the world involves "hard" or "tough" choices. In that his choices seem always to involve the use of lethal force, you will pardon me for feeling more sympathy for the innocent victims of the president's "tough choices" than I can muster for his alleged agony in making them. And I have never thought that there is anything particularly "tough" about a president who orders missile strikes from his comfy leather executive chair.

Missile strikes almost inevitably kill noncombatants and "targeted" bombings reliably extinguish the lives of innocent civilians along with (or instead of) the intended target. In one of his recent televised debates with Senator John Kerry, Bush seemed annoyed, even peeved, that the Iraqis failed to cooperate, when we initially entered their country with a campaign of "shock and awe," by lining up their soldiers in an open field, where they would have been incinerated by bombs dropped from thousands of feet in the air by American pilots.

That by his own confession Commander-in-Chief Bush actually expected (and planned on) the Iraqis to embrace such a strategy of wide-open combat with an absurdly advantaged and dependably overpowering American force I find breathtakingly naive. That Bush feels no remorse or revulsion at the idea of having purposely launched a needless war of aggression that was supposed to feature such an orgy of human carnage I find obscene.

As a representative of Republicans in my voting district, I suppose I should say something about Bush's domestic policies. I choose instead to limit my comments to the president's "war on terror" because I think this global preemptive strategy, particularly as he defines and directs it, is by far the most significant aspect of the Bush presidency from a moral point of view. I happen to agree with much of the president's domestic agenda, in particular his support for the "pro-life" movement. But somehow the president's "pro-life" rhetoric rings hollow to me in light of his anti-life, militaristic foreign policy and the curious doctrine of never-ending preventive warfare in the interest of "securing world peace" that he has adopted from his neoconservative advisers.

In sum, my primary reason for rejecting the 2004 Republican presidential candidate is precisely the quality many party members regard as Bush's "strength," namely, his manner of "leadership" in the war on terror. A strong leader moving us in the wrong direction is worse than no leader at all. For this reason, my Republican friends and I were extremely disappointed that our party offered no alternative candidate to Bush in this year's primary elections.

Through the policies of this president, our country has drifted far from the spirit of its founding fathers and their principled pursuit of peace and opposition to American involvement in foreign affairs; and Bush's apparent enthusiasm for big-government "security" at home and big-government warfare abroad hardly exemplifies a conservative ideal. Instead of calming American fears through rational guidance and prudent leadership, Bush has led, and profited from, a surge of national paranoia and xenophobic militarism that is as morally bankrupt as it will be politically suicidal.

Leonard Maluf is a professor of Philosophy and New Testament at Blessed John XXIII National Seminay in Weston, MA, where he has been teaching since the fall of 1997. He studied scripture and theology in Rome, at the Pontifical Biblical Institute, during the 1980s and has been teaching in Catholic seminaries since 1994. He has published articles on biblical topics and philosophy, as well as an abstract of his doctoral thesis on the Benedictus of Zechariah, which was accepted in 1994 by the Gregorian University in Rome. In the last twenty-five years, he has translated a number books from French, mostly in the areas of philosophy and theology. While in Rome, he worked as a translator for the Osservatore Romano, and currently does translation work for the Catholic Biblical Federation in Stuttgart, Germany.
 
 
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Re: Rad home political...
Reply #12 - Oct 28th, 2004 at 1:33pm
 
It does not matter who the next President is - it only matters that the next one fully adopts the various strategies outlined in the article at the URL below:


http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/published/esquire2004.htm


Quote:
... Does that mean a Kerry administration wouldn’t do the same? Not at all. In fact, that administration may well be the far better choice to pull off such a dramatic reorganization, given the growing distrust of many Americans and the world regarding the Bush administration’s integrity on matters of security.

My point is not to tell you how to vote, but simply to make sure you ask the right questions. If you think “preemptive war” and all that violence in the Gap are going to go away simply by voting Bush-Cheney out of office, you’re kidding yourself.
The next administration is going to have its hands full with international-security issues no matter how much it may want to focus on other things. So don’t let either ticket off the hook on how it proposes to reshape our national-defense establishment for the big tasks that lie ahead.

As Americans seeking to choose our next president, we all need to understand better the stakes at hand, for it is not the danger just ahead that we underestimate but the opportunity that lies beyond—the opportunity to make globalization truly global. America stands at the peak of a world historical arc that marks globalization’s tipping point from a closed club of the privileged few to a planetwide reality. Making that strategic vision—that happy ending—come true will end war as we know it.

America has made this effort before and changed the world. Now is the time to rededicate this nation to a new long-term strategy much as we did following World War II, when we began exporting the security that has already made war only a memory for more than half the world’s population, enabling hundreds of millions to lift themselves out of poverty in the last couple of decades alone. It is our responsibility and our obligation to give peace the same chance in the rest of the world.

Thomas P.M. Barnett is the author of 'The Pentagon’s New Map: War and Peace in the Twenty-First Century', just published by G.P. Putnam’s Sons. From November 2001 until June 2003, he served in the Office of the Secretary of Defense.


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