I'm Baaaack!

Just re-read the last reply by NightOwl.

I have a question:  How do you spell "Ghost"?

(Yes, it's a little cryptic.)


One last point.  A 'fingerprint' is defined (Concise Oxford English, 1976):

"impression of a person's finger, esp. as used for identifying criminals etc., (fig.) distinctive characteristic"

I think the reference to criminals is really interesting.


And on the basis of the definition, I would have to say that the "diskID" (the small, "validity checked" first part of what's written to S62) is the 'fingerprint' referred to in Symantec's "documentation", and the second part is merely additional data regarding cloning history that is displayed by the -Finger option.

Myself, I have also noticed (not mentioned by NightOwl) that a large part of what is stored in the second part of the "dirty smudge" is the Drive Information - Manufacturer / Model and Serial Number (what the hell for, when it's readable from the IDE interface anyway), and the Licence Holder Name supplied at installation time.  The latter part is what could be called a "distinctive characteristic"... 

The rest, well, it's history, as they say...

Bb

Hi NightOwl,

Just as a matter of interest, are you in the US?  Which TZ?  I'm in NZ...  Currently GMT +13!

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Cool, so you are saying my complaint is more justified than I myself imagined!

It's very interesting that a full reformat kills the "Fingerprint" or ID, as you prefer.  That suggests that it's doing something MORE than just writing to S62 - or do you use something other than DOS / Windows FORMAT?  Otherwise, I don't expect S62 to be touched, even by FDISK / re-FORMAT.  The plot thickens.  If it's messing with something else as well, WHAT!!!?


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Maybe.  Maybe not.  Who decides?  I think we need to be scientific about this.  You obviously want to take Symantec's interpretation.  However, that's what they WANT you to do, and I'm not so amenable to 'mind control'. 

Fact is, "they" are writing 'something' onto each and every hard drive they can, and that 'something' is somehow "validated" by Ghost each time it runs.  If you change just one bit, it doesn't recognise it as valid, and complains - you have confirmed this.  So, whatever "it" is, Ghost recognises it.  That sounds awfully like a "fingerprint" to me.  You can call it a diskID if you like, but I'm willing to bet it can't tell you one disk from another.  It's actually a "stamp" by Ghost onto your drive, and we could call it all kinds of different things, such as "tag", "stamp", "mark" (Symantec describes the process as 'marking'), "brand" (as in the Wild West), "earmark", or even "fingerprint"...  All of these labels seem apt.  DiskID seems LEAST like what it actually is. 

You see, if I stick my sweaty finger onto your hard drive platter, I'll leave my own fingerprint there, (and you'll be most upset about it!)  But it won't help YOU ID your disk in the slightest.  But it certainly will help ME i.d. YOUR disk as one I've fingered before. And anyone else who sees that fingerprint might also be able to tell that I've fingered your disk.  But it's not really a diskID.  It's really a "Ghostmark" or a fingerprint.

The fact that it doesn't (initially) contain any cloning history is neither here nor there, it's irrelevant. Ghost has already fingerprinted your drive, and (Symantec) trying to confuse the issue by calling it a "diskID" is merely obfuscation.

It's a fingerprint, and it identifies Ghost as having had its grubby fingers on your disk.  (Which I personally resent, just as you would, if I stuck my sticky fingers on your HD platter.)


Finally: Quote:


Sorry, but please don't try to tell me "what I'm really seeing".  You may be seeing something different, but what I'm really seeing (and have just re-confirmed) when I do this on ONE particular machine / monitor combo IS definitely a split-second image of the Normal Ghost GUI - a blue, rough-finish border / "background" around a grey "window", that flashes up then goes to black, before the Command prompt returns.  Actually, I think the real reason it goes black is that it causes a monitor "mode-change" and the monitor temporarily blanks out while it re-sync's, so I can't see as much as is really there.  It's a different make and model monitor from this one, and this one (where I see nothing at all before the prompt returns) probably reacts to the mode change much more quickly.

Anyway, I need to get back to trying to make this annoying software do what I want it to...

Thanks for all your help & feedback.  Catch ya later!

BATboy

GMT -8

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Sorry.  In my hasty typing--I should have said '...it looks like a DOS screen on my system...'.

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Well, gosh, all I was trying to do was use the terminology that Symantec has chosen--you can call it what you want--but I think they wrote the program--so I guess they get to call it what they want.  

I'm not sure creating new terms or re-defining the terms to meet one's opinion help anyone understand better how the program works.  You want to use the '-fnf' switch to turn off the HDD ID request--it does not do that--so you say the '-fnf' switch doesn't work....well, I guess that's true--if you re-define 'fingerprinting' as being the same as what Symantec is calling 'HDD ID'ing'....

You keep turning down the path of heavy into conspiracy theory... and maybe a little paranoia....

I'm more into what works, how does it work, how to make it work better...and for that I get...

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Gads...if the program isn't to your liking...don't use it.

Others have been successful in creating batch files that 'automate' using Ghost...I don't know if any of the references in this thread will help, but it might have some useful suggestions:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=11015...

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If the above is your opinion, well and good - you are perfectly entitled to hold it, and as far as I am concerned, perfectly entitled to express it publicly - but such really belongs over on the Lethal Rad Board of the High Radiation Level Forums.


I have been avidly following this thread, and I am saddened to see its degeneration.  Albeit, being a grumpy old man gives me license to be nosy that youngsters fail to enjoy - the fact that you profess to be a Kiwi (or at least currently residing among them) makes me wonder if you suffered from, or were offended by, Symantec's more recent depredation of the software industry, i.e., my copy of Partition Magic 8.0 came from a Powerquest stockpile that was pre-Symantec acquisition.

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Your sparkling wit and tastes in authors/playwrights will prove most befitting to the Lethal Rad Board of the High Radiation Level Forums.

To pique your intellect, I challenge you to read the recently updated edition of "The Lexus and the Olive Tree" by Thomas L. Friedman.  You will find him a kindred soul in his manner of unveiling the enigmas of these troubled times, i.e., the troubled Middle East, radical Islam, et cetera all of which revolve around globalization - nay, call it what it is - modernity.

BATboy -

My copy is loaned to a friend, but it is the original version with the gray and orange dust jacket - the latest edition has a white dust jacket, I think.

The main thing is to look for the phrase when selecting it.



P.S. It is almost 3AM here in Louisiana - I am going to go crawl in bed with a long-legged brunette with ice-blue eyes (been married to her for forty-one years on my birthday next month - I never forget an anniversary).

BATboy

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Doing a search on 'fingerprint' on the Ghost 2003 user guide pdf file shows that the only reference to 'fingerprint' in the actual document is on page 158, regarding the '-finger' command line switch, and states:

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However, it does not say anything about HDD-ID or marking there.

The only other references to be found for 'fingerprint' are in the index on page 216:

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Page 36 does not appear to have anything regarding 'fingerprint' or HDD-ID'ing.

Page 37 and 39 only talk about 'Identifying a hard disk' and refer to page 43.  ('Identifying a hard disk' is also found on page 38, and I suspect the 'page 36' reference probably should be pointed at page 38 instead.)

On page 43, there is a section called, 'Identifying a hard disk', and that section never says anything about 'fingerprint'.

The index is lacking any reference to 'Identifying a hard disk', but does have a listing for 'Disk-marking 94'.  On page 94, 'Marking your disks', there is no mention of 'fingerprint', but seems to be referring to the information on page 43.

The only other reference to 'fingerprint' in the index is on page 218 under 'Norton Ghost-fingerprint 158', and that page is already mentioned above.

So, the only place there appears to be any confusion, is in the Index where it references pages that do not talk about the indexed item.  This is what made me begin to think 'HDD-ID'ing' and 'fingerprint' where not the same.

If you carefully read your previous posts in this thread, the only place where I have seen both 'HDD-ID'ing' and 'fingerprint'  used 'more or less interchangeably, and confusingly...' are in your statements, and not in Symantec's documentation.

BATboy



Test #3:

I then edited the test HDD so Sector 62 was again all zero's.

I ran 'ghost -fnf', but this time I allowed Ghost to ID the HDD, restored the test HDD image.

I ran 'ghost -finger', and now Ghost reported 'Disk #3  Not finger-printed again.

Ran the disk editor and found these results:

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Looks like Ghost ID'd the HDD, but I do not see the same 'fingerprint' information like reported in test #2 above.  It's different.

Test #4:

I once again made Sector 62 all zero's.  Ran Ghost without the '-fnf' switch, Ghost again asked to ID the HD because I had destroyed the previous HDD-ID.  I said 'OK'.  Restored the test HDD image.  Ran 'ghost -finger' and got:

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Disk #3 is again 'fingerprinted', but the time stamp has changed.

Ran the disk editor and now Sector 62 looks like this:

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Believe me, I have run these tests far more times than stated above, and I can point out several common themes:

a.  If Ghost writes anything to Sector 62, 'HDD-ID' or 'fingerprint', the first 8 hex positions are always the same eight pairs of numbers/letters, so I assume this is Ghost's signature to indicate that what fol