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Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9 (Read 201205 times)
Pleonasm
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #75 - Feb 15th, 2006 at 11:04am
 
Although I am not competent to offer a legal opinion, I did notice that the license agreement for Ghost 10 (see the opening pages within the Norton Ghost 10.0 User’s Guide) specifies that:

Quote:
You may not . . . use a previous version or copy of the Software after You have received and installed a disk replacement set or an upgraded version.  Upon upgrading the Software, all copies of the prior version must be destroyed.

As a consequence, it appears that the use of Ghost 9 to restore recovery points created by Ghost 10 – while technically possible – may be legally prohibited.

* * * * * * * * * *

Additionally, the license agreement also states:

Quote:
You may not . . . modify . . . or create derivative works from the Software.

Isn’t the use of BartPE with the Ghost 9 plug-in a “modification” or “derivative work” of Ghost 9 – and therefore prohibited?
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
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Brian
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #76 - Feb 15th, 2006 at 3:22pm
 
Pleonasm wrote on Feb 15th, 2006 at 9:16am:
If, as it now appears, the Ghost 9 recovery environment can successfully restore recovery points created by Ghost 10, then ought it not to also be the case that BartPE with Ghost 9 plug-in would do the same?


Just tried it and the image I created yesterday with Ghost 10 was successfully restored  from BartPE with the Ghost 9 plugin.

Quote:
And, if that is true, then the disadvantage of not having a Ghost 10 plug-in for BartPE is mitigated – correct?


However you need to have Ghost 9 installed to make the BartPE CD. So people who don't own Ghost 9 are out of luck if they only have Ghost 10 and can't see their image on the external HD. They can't restore.

Quote:
Isn’t the use of BartPE with the Ghost 9 plug-in a “modification” or “derivative work” of Ghost 9 – and therefore prohibited?


It's interesting that several companies making imaging software actually distribute or approve a BartPE plugin.

Acronis True Image
TeraByte Image for Windows
Drive SnapShot
DriveImage XML

There are non company approved plugins for

Ghost 8
Ghost 9
Paragon Hard Disk Manager
PowerQuest Drive Image 2002
 
 
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Pleonasm
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #77 - Feb 15th, 2006 at 4:08pm
 
Brian, it would be ideal if Symantec offered an ‘official’ BartPE plug-in for Ghost 10.  As noted in Reply #62, my suspicion is that Symantec does not do so (and has ‘complicated’ Ghost 10 to hinder others from doing so) because such functionality circumvents the company’s intention to have the recovery environment be anything other than a recovery tool.  Having a single CD disc that could provide both create and restore capabilities might hinder Symantec’s ability to protect its intellectual property.  Additionally, one can speculate that running Ghost from within BartPE also creates support issues that the company prefers not to address.

Alas, it is reasonable to guess that the use of Ghost within BartPE ended with version 9.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #78 - Feb 16th, 2006 at 1:05pm
 
Pleonasm

Quote:
Alas, it is reasonable to guess that the use of Ghost within BartPE ended with version 9.

Maybe a *reason* to consider buying both versions--9.x and 10.x  Wink !

RE:  your previous quote of the EULA (End Users License Agreement) from Ghost 10's User Guide:

Quote:
You may not . . . use a previous version or copy of the Software after You have received and installed a disk replacement set or an upgraded version.  Upon upgrading the Software, all copies of the prior version must be destroyed.

I think this is a poorly worded clause--(
What's new regarding something Symantec writes for Users
 Wink ! )--My take on this is that you have purchased a Ghost 10 license--if Symantec provides you a replacement disc or update disc due to some issue that needs to be corrected based on that Ghost 10 license that you have already purchased--then any previous installs or discs of *that* software has to be uninstalled and/or destroyed--but it is not referring to any previous license you received when you purchased Ghost 9.x!--you still have that license and you should still be allowed to use that software if you choose.

Being as I do not believe you can have both Ghost 9 and Ghost 10 installed at the same time on a given OS, you really can not use both on one machine at the same time.

And your second quote:

Quote:
You may not . . . modify . . . or create derivative works from the Software.


Quote:
Isn’t the use of BartPE with the Ghost 9 plug-in a “modification” or “derivative work” of Ghost 9 – and therefore prohibited?

You are not *altering* Ghost 9 in any way--you are just putting it on the PartPE CD that then loads a functioning version of Ghost 9.x that works from that PE environment--basically an OS loaded from CD into RAM.

If you purchased your license for Ghost 9.x, and now have purchased a second license for Ghost 10.x and it is installed on your system--you are simply using your Ghost 9.x license on a separate OS.

But, it's probably *reasonable* to say that if you only have one Ghost 9.x license--and have it installed on your HDD, and on a BartPE--you perhaps should have two Ghost 9.x licenses.

How about if you are multi-booting, and copying one OS partition to another *hidden* partition--and then you switch between the two OS's--is that a violation of the EULA?--one can only use one copy of the software at one time--and it's on only *one* machine!--does each partition have to have a valid license?  (I think you talked in another post about *Virtual Machines* each have to be licesned separately!)

These EULA's are really something to behold--companies put all kinds of clauses in there in hopes to cover any possible situation that may arise that either protects them from liability, or protects their software from any *abuse*--should they decide *the use* is *abuse* at some future date!

When I read the Ghost 2003 EULA, it clearly says you can only have *one* copy of the Ghost.exe program on one computer--but, Ghost 2003's functionality offers to put a copy of Ghost.exe on every optical disc that you put a Ghost image on when you make a backup image.  Now, how can you not be violating the EULA each time you use the product in that manner?!!!!!

 

No question is stupid...but, possibly the answers are Wink !&&
 
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Pleonasm
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #79 - Feb 16th, 2006 at 2:09pm
 
NightOwl, all good observations.

Your interpretation of the EULA for Ghost might be correct (or incorrect) – I don’t have the expertise to intelligently argue either position.  The purpose of my post was to at least raise awareness of the issue so that individuals who are using the BartPE/Ghost 9 disc could pursue the question to resolution.

I don’t see anything in the EULA that would restrict a user from loading Ghost 10 onto two partitions on the same PC.  Concerning virtual machines, however, the story is different.
Quote:
For the purposes of this License Agreement, a virtual machine is considered the same as an actual machine.

I am only speculating, but I would not be surprised to learn that Symantec has been viewing the use of Ghost 9 with BartPE in distain, because it is in essence a ‘work-around’ of Symantec’s decision not to allow the creation of images from within the recovery environment.  While they may not have yet taken specific action to halt the use of BartPE/Ghost 9, it could be the case that the failure of Ghost 10 to run with BartPE is no mere accident – i.e., Symantec may have intentionally crafted version 10 in such a way so as to ‘shut down’ further use of the product with BartPE.  As Frodo (the author of the BartPE plug-in for Ghost 9) said, “I suspect there’s some weird new Symantec bastardry at work here [with Ghost 10]”.

If Frodo is correct, then the EULA discussion is almost without consequence – since there will be no option to run Ghost 10 (or subsequent versions) with BartPE anyway.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #80 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 5:46am
 
Seems to me like ReatogoPE has some serious problems with the autohelp scripts because I noticed it didn't copy everything from the 1.0.3705 directory of the .Net stuff which resulted in Ghost not running.

Then when I fixed that, it would always crash miserably. Not sure if there's a particular mode I should've been booting in when you are asked to hit one of the function keys at the start but I took a different approach.

I downloaded Frodo's plugin, Colin's .Net plugin, Sherpya's XPE 1.0.4 plugin and HWPnP just in case. Then I readjusted the Ramdrive to 96MB and created the ISO.

Viola! The bastard worked!!!!!!!! Granted, I didn't do anything about my license number but I'm happy to type that in for the moment until I can sort out the automation of that too.
 
 
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Brian
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #81 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 12:30pm
 
Artstar_ES,

You have probably discussed this problem in http://www.911cd.net/forums/

They are more likely to help you resolve the errors but let us know what you find.

 
 
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #82 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 5:47pm
 
Brian:

Will do. It's got me beat how it worked for you guys and not for me but in just looking at the differences between the logs from Frodo's plugin vs Reatogo's autohelp plugin, Reatogo just seems to skip things that it shouldn't be. Very odd behaviour.

At any rate, the CD is now booting on my laptop (I needed something to work on to relieve my boredom working here in Torino) and Ghost is loading without issue (and I decided to use UltraISO to throw in the HPC file as well just to make my licensing issue easier). All that's left is to ensure that it loads the respective nVidia driver for SATA/PATA and Adaptec's RAID driver and we should be happy campers.

At any rate, I actually find both methods to be just as easy as one another to set up the CD, just that the PEBuilder way seems to be the only one that works.

Maybe you've got some kind of voodoo thing going that we should know about? Wink
 
 
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Brian
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #83 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 6:10pm
 
Artstar_ES,

I've made dozens of Reatogo/BartPE CD's containing Ghost 9 (CD-RW). Whenever I find a new plugin I make a new CD. The only time it failed was when I was building from my second WinXP partition which doesn't contain Ghost 9. Ghost 9 must be present for the build process.

A few weeks ago Reatogo issued a separate dotNET plugin (separate from the Ghost 9 one). Have you tried it?

I looked at building from the plain BartPE but adding Frodo's original plugin looked too messy and I stayed with Reatogo's auto-help one. I much prefer the Reatogo CD but if you have added XPE then your final product is probably much the same. I'm lazy, often.

As a test, why don't you try building on a different computer. I corresponded with someone who couldn't even build a basic BartPE on his computer. Still can't.
 
 
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #84 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 8:05pm
 
Hey dude.

Yeah, I tried the dotNET plugin itself (which I believe is the same one I used with PE Builder - Colin F...something - v1.1 to be precise) and while that resolved the parser error issue and it did then find the machine.config file within the v1.0.3705 framework, V2iConsole.exe would still crash with a fatal application error (of whose address kept changing so the error would have a consistent element to the cause, but nothing in the result which could be of much help to find out wtf was happening).

So you're right, I've pretty much wound up with a final product similar to the Reatogo CD only that I've then injected the HPC file created in the RAMdrive (since my desktop is NTFS) to enable the licensing to be sorted out from the get-go without the need to paste into the box.

As for the messiness of the execution the longer (non-Reatogo) way, it is only a little messier because you're dealing with Frodo's, Sherpya's XPE, Colin's dotNET plugins, adjusting the RAMdrive size to be at least 64MB in the .inf and sacrifices only 1 more CD if you really care about the way the licensing/activation issue is tackled. I admire Reatogo's efforts to almost completely automate the process but for whatever reason, the .cmd doesn't copy the necessary config files from the earlier dotNET framework (v1.0.3705) and then for whatever reason, there must be so much more crap being loaded into the system that is causing the fatal exception error. Perhaps my laptop doesn't like that particular CD or the CD doesn't like my laptop because of its hardware? Either way, it doesn't really make for a universal CD if I am to use it to back up the HD's on clients' PC's - not that I do that often anyways since I spend more time working in broadcast than IT.

I don't have another machine handy, as all our IT here in Torino/Turin is based on Win2k, just like my laptop - I avoid XP where possible. But I do agree with you that the computer's own existing setup is more than likely the culprit to the failed CD's with Reatogo.
 
 
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Brian
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #85 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 11:29pm
 
I saw Reatogo's reply and I agree that you need to do the build from another computer. Once you have the CD it should work in most computers. I haven't tried this but you should even be able to do a Ghost 9 image of a Win 98 OS partition.


PS The recent dotNET plugin is by Colin but it's version Pre 3. It may be worth trying.
 
 
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James Kaplonek
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #86 - Mar 10th, 2006 at 5:26am
 
Hi everyone,

Having recently started a job where I am rolling out new PCs and Laptops I have looked into ghost in great depth. I've just purchased ghost 2005 (9.0) and would love to get a BPE CD going for it, however I am rather confused as to the plugin aspect. I can't seem to find a plugin for 9.0 on the BPE website and the only one I can find elsewhere is in BETA?!

Is it possible to have someone clarify exactly which files I need to get hold of for making this plugin work? I already have PE Builder and ghost 9.0 installed on my system.

Many thanks,
James.
 
 
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Brian
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #87 - Mar 10th, 2006 at 5:34am
 
James,

You get everything from this link, including the plugin. It works. You need a WinXP SP2 CD and Ghost 9 installed on your computer.

http://www.reatogo.de/

There are lots of pointers in this thread.

 
 
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James Kaplonek
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #88 - Mar 10th, 2006 at 5:43am
 
Thank you, I don't know how but I totally managed to miss the reatogo link on the first post :¬/

I am now setting up all the files and hopefully I will make my first clone PC today!

Thanks again,
James.
 
 
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Re: Using Bart's PE Bootable CD/DVD with Ghost 9
Reply #89 - Jun 1st, 2006 at 8:21am
 
seems like I can't find this file anyomre, its outdated?

In Step 2 download “ReatogoPE” (which is   reatogo-313-103-a.exe)

Im able to find the other files though.


 
 
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