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Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP installatio (Read 10608 times)
Ivanov
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Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP installatio
Dec 15th, 2005 at 11:17am
 
Hello Mr. Christer,

Read your responses to XP installation thread & found them to be very informative & helpful.
Before reading my questions do keep in mind that am a med doc, new to computers related stuff & English isn’t my first language.

The following is the method, I use to install XP Pro slipstreamed with SP2 on my machine.
1. Fresh install XP with SP2 using a bootable CD.
2. Than chipset /modem drivers etc.
3. Next tweak the services as required, keeping in view Vipers recommendations.
4. Change desk top settings to classic view etc.
5. Get connected to the net for automatic updates to be downloaded & installed. Takes around 2 hrs.
6. Install AVG, Spy bot after updating run a system scan.
7.  Install Office XP with its SP3.
8. Get online; go to MS Office updates site. It performs a scan after downloading an active X control & than installs approx 7/8 security updates of around 14 MB in size.
9. After all this install Ghost 2003, & other utilities.
10. Take an image of my OS & save it.

I would like you to give your comments about the above.

Now after reading your replies it really is interesting if one can download all the security updates, save them/ burn them on to a media for the future. It can save a lot of hassle if the OS gets corrupted or those updates can be used on other machines running XP Pro & Office.
The following is now what I have gathered from the replies.
1. Firstly download all the updates & save them.
2. Make a fresh install of XP with SP2.
3. Than install drivers.
4. Install office with SP3.

5. Now the real issue. In which orders should the updates be installed?
a.Windows & Package installer first & than reboot.
b.Than all updates & reboot.
     The list for Windows XP:

040924-885884 (only if Office XP will be installed)
041015-887472
041021-886185
041028-885835
041029-885836
041103-887742
041116-888113
041117-873339
041207-888302
050111-891781
050119-885250
050321-890859
050503-893803 (#1)
050507-894391
050510-896422
050511-896428
050517-890046
050517-898461 (#2)
050525-893066
050527-896358
050629-901214
050630-896423
050630-899587
050630-899591
050709-893756
050726-902400
050818-899589
050822-905414
050823-905749
050830-904706
050910-901017
050928-900725
051005-896688
051006-896424

c. After a reboot since Office XP with SP3 shall already have been installed, than install the following:
The list for Office XP:

040312-833858
040828-873379
040914-837253
050129-873352
050202-890829
050618-895589
050925-904018

d. Finally, the latest Malicious Software Removal Tool:

051102-890830.

Is this CORRECT??

1. When going online the windows update service should be running on startup?
2. I use Spy bot Tea Timer settings on my OS, while installing various utilities, messengers etc it gives various pop messages, such as Global entry value added, Active X allow, Value Added to System Registry & for each asks whether Allow or Deny...your views?
3. How do you rate Disk keeper as OS defragmenter?
4. I use a combo of AVG, Ad aware SE Pro & Spy bot with Tea timer protection for system protection……..your views?

Sorry to have bothered you which I can well imagine, as being a doc I rarely get time for myself before I get paged or my cell rings.

Like in med, what I learnt in med school books at times is far different from on ground situation. One has to be flexible & adjust according to the patients’ situation. I feel the same rule at times, apply to computers too……..

Waiting to hear from you.
Take care.
Regards!
 

Ivanov.
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #1 - Dec 15th, 2005 at 2:22pm
 
Ivanov, concerning question #3 about Diskeeper, see the thread “Diskeeper 10” on this forum at http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=11338...

A review of disk defragmentation tools by PC Magazine may be found at http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1811993,00.asp
 
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #2 - Dec 15th, 2005 at 6:49pm
 
Hello Ivanov!

Downloading as much as possible prior to installing an OS from "square one" is something I always do. For me, it's easy since I have downloaded all updates to Windows XP SP2 (SP2 set the counter back to zero updates) as and when they have been released. Downloading all of them at once may be a bigger task but in my opinion, it's worth the trouble. I also download all (or as many as possible) of other updates to drivers and software I plan on installing.

All the above is to delay connection to the internet as long as possible and the reason for that is to install the AntiVirus and FireWall last. Why, you may ask?

Like most (?) people on this forum, I have partitioned my hard disk in two partitions, C: for the operating system and D: for data. A second hard disk is partitioned E: for backups of the data and F: for Images of the system. This makes "disaster recovery" so much simpler and quicker.

There is a partitioning guide around here somewhere. Some people create several partitions for different use but my basic strategy is to separate the operating system from the data. To get "some degree of order" among the drive letters, some of them have to be changed. If you create C: during setup but no other partitions, the opticals will become D: and E: (if you have two of them). In Disk Manager, these drive letters can be changed to X: and Y: to get them out of the way. When you create further partitions in Disk Manager, they will become D:, E: and F: and so on. Only make the system partition C: a Primary. Make all other partitions Extended with Logical Volumes. (some people will disagree but with no intention to multiboot several operating systems, I think that's the best choice).

This means that after partitioning, formating and installing Windows XP, certain folders have to be moved from C: to D:. I have compiled a guide on how to do this in Moving Windows XP default folders Rev1.

When all partitions have been created, all folders moved, all drivers installed and XP SP2 fully updated and tweaked, I create an Image (#1) of the system partition (using Ghost 2003, Partition-to-Image).

Next, I install all hardware, like keyboard, mouse, scanner and printer. I create Image #2.

Next, I install and fully update all software that I know I will keep for a consideable length of time. Examples are Office XP, Adobe Acrobat (full, not Reader), Adobe Photoshop and other "high priced" programs. I create Image #3.

Only now do I install AntiVirus and FireWall. After connecting to the internet, I immediately do an update of the AV and FW. I also visit Windows Update and Office Update to verify that I have not missed anything. I create Image #4.

Finally, I install other software that either come in new versions quite often or applications that I know is not "for keeps". I also do the Services Tweaks at this point. I create Image #5.

All these Images is a safety net during the installation procedure. If anything goes wrong, I don't have to start over from square one but can restore the appropriate Image.

When the subscriptions for AV and FW run out, uninstalling is easy. Restore Image #4 install the new AV/FW and the small applications that were lost in the roll back. That is much quicker than uninstalling AV/FW and doing a manual cleanup. Reinstalling updates to Windows and Office will be a quick task since you will have them on your hard disk.

I have disabled System Destroy ...... Lips Sealed ...... sorry, I meant System Restore since my strategy is much more reliable. It has never let me down whereas SR has never done its work properly (when I was using it on WinME). In my opinion, SR is a waste of space for a Gost user but better than nothing for everyone else.

A few comments:

Quote:
1. Fresh install XP with SP2 using a bootable CD.

Since you have managed to slipstream SP2 ...... Wink ...... you're not totally new to computers!

Quote:
2. Than chipset /modem drivers etc.

I would install all updates to Windows first.

Quote:
3. Next tweak the services as required, keeping in view Vipers recommendations.

I would hold that until after installing updates. Some of them may depend on Services that you disable.

Quote:
4. Change desk top settings to classic view etc.

Anytime you like.

Quote:
5. Get connected to the net for automatic updates to be downloaded & installed. Takes around 2 hrs.

Hmm ...... Shocked ...... still connected via modem ...... 8) ...... makes it even more sensible to download to the hard disk since you will only have to do it once!

Quote:
6. Install AVG, Spy bot after updating run a system scan.
7.  Install Office XP with its SP3.

See my prefences as described above regarding the order of installation.

Quote:
8. Get online; go to MS Office updates site. It performs a scan after downloading an active X control & than installs approx 7/8 security updates of around 14 MB in size.

If you do it "my way" this will only be a check point but it should be done.

Quote:
9. After all this install Ghost 2003, & other utilities.


Create the Ghost Boot Disks (only one floppy if no CD/DVD support) on the current system. Use it to create the sequential Images during the installation procedure. It's my advice to do it booted into DOS because that's what you need to do when disaster strikes (note that I said when ...... Undecided ...... not if).

Quote:
10. Take an image of my OS & save it.

You say nothing about to what media (CD, DVD or to a different partition/hard disk but you know my drill. A second hard disk is not a big investment and sooo much faster than a CD/DVD.

Quote:
The following is now what I have gathered from the replies.

1. Firstly download all the updates & save them.
2. Make a fresh install of XP with SP2.
3. Than install drivers.
4. Install office with SP3.

I believe we have covered my preferences regarding the order of battle.

Quote:
5. Now the real issue. In which orders should the updates be installed?
a.Windows & Package installer first & than reboot.
b.Than all updates & reboot.

The update marked #1 (MS Installer) and #2 (Package Installer) should be installed first with a reboot (after both). #1 is most important but #2 less so because it will only come in play when using web updates.

All others are installed in order of date (first six digits YYMMDD). Do them all at once with a single reboot when done (otherwise it will take "for ever").

The list is outdated by the december batch of updates:

For Windows XP, 051201-905915 has substituted 051005-896688 and 051202-910437 is new.

No changes for Office XP.

A new Malicious Software Removal Tool, 051209-890830 has substituted 051102-890830.

Christer
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #3 - Dec 15th, 2005 at 7:14pm
 
...... and you thought that I had finished ...... Grin ...... well, me too but then I scrolled further down:

Quote:
1. When going online the windows update service should be running on startup?

I use the setting to "notify but neither download nor install until I say so". I never "say so" but take notes on the new updates and download them to my archive and install from there.

(There is one "update" that can not (to my knowledge) be downloaded: "Microsoft Genuine Advantage Tool" which will be offered the first time you visit Windows Update or through Windows Automatic Update.)

Quote:
2. I use Spy bot Tea Timer settings on my OS, while installing various utilities, messengers etc it gives various pop messages, such as Global entry value added, Active X allow, Value Added to System Registry & for each asks whether Allow or Deny...your views?

I use Spybot S&D, Ad-Aware and other similar applications as scanners only. I don't like having unnecessary stuff running in the background. (My tweaked, 4½ years old BOAC [Box Of Assembled Components] with a 1 GHz Athlon and 512 MB RAM runs like a 2.5 GHz P4 with all the crap loaded ...... 8) ......)

Quote:
3. How do you rate Disk keeper as OS defragmenter?

I only use the free version Diskeeper Lite and have no opinion on the other versions.

Quote:
4. I use a combo of AVG, Ad aware SE Pro & Spy bot with Tea timer protection for system protection……..your views?

I have used Norton System Works 2003 and Norton Internet Security 2003 for the last couple of years. (Norton stuff is difficult to uninstall, that's why I install them late in my sequence, to be easy to get rid of by rolling back.)

I have only heard "good reviews" of AVG free but it does not have all the bells and whistles. Does it include a FireWall? If not, you should get one! The Windows Firewall only monitors incoming but any bad stuff that has sneaked in can do anything outgoing unmonitored. Kerio Personal Firewall is one that goes well with AVG free (that's what I've heard). Kerio has sold it to another company, I don't have all the details but it should still be free.

Christer
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #4 - Dec 15th, 2005 at 8:37pm
 
Very informative and thank you for your explanation of arranging a system in this way.

I am wondering since I already have my documents on my E partition and photos on F with CD on D, would there be any big advantage after a system is already set up of rearranging drive letters so the OS and data are labeled concsecutively and the optical drive letter is changed?  I am sure if I tried to do this I would have to tweak many registry and prgram entries to reflect the changes.  But, from a logical point of view, I do like the idea you presented on bringing order to drive letters.

Thanks.

Gary
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #5 - Dec 15th, 2005 at 9:53pm
 
Re: the excellent Christer guide:

http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=49222

I would be more than happy to give you your own web space, with your own subdomain even, if you like, similar to what I did for NightOwl:

http://nightowl.radified.com/bootcd/bootcdintro.html

.. for a place where you can have more control over the formatting and style of content than is offered by forum software.

We can even code in some Google ads and make you some money .. if you like. No pressure.

Lemme know.

Seems to me, it's this very specific type of guide that seems to do so well on the web.

You could have your own FTP log-in, and access your guide(s) whenever you like (24x7x365). You could even include some gfx, etc. It's really a very good and useful guide.

Rad
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #6 - Dec 15th, 2005 at 10:45pm
 
Hello Mr. Christer,

Thanks for the very prompt & elaborate response.  Its simply superb, splendid & a pleasure to read.

One question on which site & how do I find the various updates.

Like went to MS download center, in search when typed e.g. this update 041015-887472, the search result gave the same KB# BUT did different date of release. Windows Messenger Update, but the release date was not in 2004 but 2005.

Could you please bother to clarify this in detail?

Thanks for pointing to tweak the services after updating. System Restore like some others are just a waste of system resources in my view, far better to image an OS.

I create images on another drive.

Regarding having a slipstreamed bootable XP CD, it was done for me by a friend working for some IT company. I want to learn to do computer related things myself than relying on others.

I get connected using a broad band modem.

Personally I prefer a combo of AVG & Kerio, Norton, MacAfee aren’t my preferences. They have poor uninstallers; even after removing them, leave behind many files folders & invalid registry entries. In my opinion the best product is by Symantec is Ghost, only.

Would just type what I have gathered.

1. Install XP with SP2 first.
2.  Later Office & its SP3.
3. All updates for XP & Office.
4. Than tweak services.
5. Image OS.
6. Install AV & FW & update them.
7. Than Utilities etc.
8. Finally image OS again.

Waiting to hear your comments,
Have a great evening,
Regards.


PS: Mr Christer, this reply is by me Ivanov Yezinki. Had to become a guest as I get logged out, after trying to post a reply? I had earlier emailed about this issue to the forum moderators.....
 
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #7 - Dec 16th, 2005 at 5:02am
 
Gary,

Quote:
I am wondering since I already have my documents on my E partition and photos on F with CD on D, would there be any big advantage after a system is already set up of rearranging drive letters so the OS and data are labeled concsecutively and the optical drive letter is changed?

No advantage at all, it's just my sense of "law and order". Windows assigns drive letters according to certain rules and the drive letters should be the same each time you reconnect a device.

If you have one internal HDD, another in a mobile rack and the third is in a USB enclosure, they might be C:, D: and E:. If you power off the mobile rack and connect the USB drive, it will still be E:. Windows remembers. Now, if you buy a card reader or even a printer with an integrated card reader, you must have all drives connected when connecting the card reader the first time for it to receive "unused drive letters". A friend forgot that and it became a mess (he told me but I've never seen it).

Rad,

that guide has its origine here. I wrote a very short one which you included in the Guide to Ghost. I referred a few people to that section and some of them messed up their computer because they didn't know enough "computer geek" to follow the instructions. A member over at Windows BBS asked so many questions that I decided to create a more "easy to follow" guide that can be used by people knowing next to nothing. Rev0 had a few thousand hits and a few hundred downloads the first month. Then the current Rev1 was posted. I give credit to two members of the Windows BBS staff who assisted with feedback during writing and correcting my most flagrant mistakes in translating what my swedish speaking computer says to proper english. This means that it wouldn't feel right to move it to RADIFIED.

I'm flattered by your offer of "my own little corner" but as you yourself has said, "it takes time to maintain at a decent level" and I don't feel that I have that time right now. The Swedish Soaring Federation is planning and preparing the World Gliding Championships which will be held in Eskilstuna next year and being responsible for flight safety, I will have to devote my time to that but ...... Lips Sealed ...... maybe later.

Ivanov,

I will get back to you later ...... Wink ...... must do some proper (paying) work now.

Christer
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #8 - Dec 16th, 2005 at 8:15am
 
Ivanov,

Quote:
One question on which site & how do I find the various updates.

Like went to MS download center, in search when typed e.g. this update 041015-887472, the search result gave the same KB# BUT did different date of release. Windows Messenger Update, but the release date was not in 2004 but 2005.

As I mentioned in the previous thread (from which you quote the list) the date I use is not the release date but "the date (YYMMDD) according to the digital signature". The digital signature can be found by right-clicking the file > Properties > Digital signatures. The date of the signatures do not change but I have noticed that the file creation date when downloading to the local hard disk will be the current date and not the "actual date of creation". When looking at the file itself, it is impossible to use the release date since it is not there but only in the documentation (KB-article or Security Bulletin). My date is only there to sort the updates in a chronological order but I am not sure it is necessary to install in that order but I do that since "better safe than sorry". Focus on the KB-number, get them downloaded and install, preferrably in chronological order.

Quote:
They have poor uninstallers; even after removing them, leave behind many files folders & invalid registry entries.

I agree and that's why I use my "modus operandi" to make it easy to uninstall by rolling back an Image.

Quote:
In my opinion the best product is by Symantec is Ghost, only.

I have used Norton SystemWorks 2003 but only for the convenient utilities "One Button Checkup", "Norton WinDoctor and "Norton System Doctor". I have nothing running in the background but use them only at my discretion.

Norton Internet Security 2003 has everything running and it has worked well. Some people accuse it for being a resource hog but in my opinion, not worse than other AV/FW software.

There is a limp to that statement since I have not compared different AV/FW software on my computer, only my computer with NIS and other computers with other AV/FW software. I do notice a difference when running my computer with NIS disabled from startup (disconnected from the web) but not to the magnitude indicated by a number of "loud voices" on some forums.

If you install "late iterations of software" on "earlier iterations of computers", then there is a mismatch between the hardware and the software which may be regarded as "resource hogs". On computers with the GHz and MB to handle them > no problem. I will soon transfer to NIS 2005 or 2006. I wonder if my single GHz and 512 MB will be able to handle it or if it will become a "resource hog" on my system?

Norton Ghost 2003 has been of good service to me since I migrated to WinXP. While on WinME, I was using Ghost 2001. I will stick with Ghost 2003 and DOS until a new file system which Ghost 2003 can not read is introduced. I hope that the, at that time, current iteration of Ghost will have matured (and gotten a DOS inteface ...... Grin ......) !

Quote:
Would just type what I have gathered.

1. Install XP with SP2 first.
2.  Later Office & its SP3.
3. All updates for XP & Office.
4. Than tweak services.
5. Image OS.
6. Install AV & FW & update them.
7. Than Utilities etc.
8. Finally image OS again.

Sounds good to me but it is with Images as it is with partitioning. Everyone will come to his or her own conclusions. I don't bother with separate partitions for the pagefile and temp files. Neither do I have a leading FAT32 partition to be able to acces the whole drive from DOS and to trick malware and hackers by not installing the OS on C:. The discussions have prompted me to think about what I need and to what extent I want to complicate things and the result is my simple basic partitioning strategy. I hope that I have triggered some thinking on your part to make a decision on what you think is right for you and your needs.

Two weeks ago, I reinstalled a system for a friend according to my preferences. When I moved the "My Documents" folder from C: to D:, I took it one step further. I also moved the "My Pictures" folder and the "My Music" folder out from "My Documents" onto the root of D:. The reason was backup considerations. He will be able to backup his pictures or music without backing up everything else. Replicator is a good backup utility which is free. You can create different jobs and either schedule or run manually. I run them manually since my backup drive sits powered off in the mobile rack during normal usage.

Replicator can backup a folder like "My Documents" and include all subfolders but not exclude certain subfolders. That's why it makes sense to get some folders out from "My Documents".

Christer
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #9 - Dec 16th, 2005 at 8:47am
 
Hello Mr. Christer,

Following is the list of windows updates that  have been downloaded,present in the windows folder, size 101 MB, till today!

1. KB873339
2. KB885250
3. KB885835
4. KB885836
5. KB886185
6. KB887472
7. KB887742
8.KB888113
9.KB888302
10.KB890046
11.KB890859
12. KB891781
13. KB893066
14.KB893756
15.KB894391
16.KB896358
17.KB896422
18.KB896423
19.KB896424
20.KB896428
21.KB896688
22.KB898461 ……..# 2
23.KB899587
24.KB899589
25.KB899591
26.KB900725
27.KB901017
28.KB901214
29.KB902400
30.KB904706
31.KB905414
32.KB905749
33.KB905915
34.KB910437

A few things:

1. Windows update history reveals that have downloaded 40 updates till now, where could be the rest?

2. Secondly the Windows Installer update (050503-893803 (#1)), can’t find that?

3. Lastly where are the office updates stored?

Regards!
 
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #10 - Dec 16th, 2005 at 8:53am
 
Sorry one more question.

On a fresh install of XP, is it necessary to install Ghost 2003, before imaging, despite the fact that a Ghost 2003 created PC DOS floppy diskette is  already at hand?

Regards.
 
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #11 - Dec 16th, 2005 at 9:51am
 
Quote:
Following is the list of windows updates that  have been downloaded,present in the windows folder, size 101 MB, till today!

A bit confusing, if they are in the root of the Windows folder and blue colour, it is uninstall information. If they have the *.log extension, they are install logs. Neither can be copied to anywhere else and used for installation.

Quote:
1. Windows update history reveals that have downloaded 40 updates till now, where could be the rest?

I have no idea but the update history is cumulative, everything is counted from your first visit and on and I believe it includes Windows Automatic Update. It also includes non-critical updates.

You will have to download the updates directly to the hard disk. There are different versions of each update. Verify that you download for Windows XP SP2!

I use either

Download Center (which seems to have received a face-lift today)

which includes all Microsoft Updates or

Windows Update Catalog

for Updates to Windows only.

Quote:
2. Secondly the Windows Installer update (050503-893803 (#1)), can’t find that?


Get Windows Installer 3.1 Redistributable (v2) from the Download Center.

Quote:
3. Lastly where are the office updates stored?

At the Download Center. Always do the search for the complete number > KBxxxxxx not xxxxxx only or the search engine may miss it.

Christer
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #12 - Dec 16th, 2005 at 9:54am
 
Quote:
On a fresh install of XP, is it necessary to install Ghost 2003, before imaging, despite the fact that a Ghost 2003 created PC DOS floppy diskette is  already at hand?

No, I always create the Ghost Boot Disks in advance on a current installation that is fully updated. I only use Ghost from within Windows to browse Images in Ghost Explorer. I install Ghost at the same time as NSW and NIS.

Christer
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #13 - Dec 16th, 2005 at 10:14am
 
Hello Mr. Christer,

1.They are in the read only/ hidden folder named $hf_mig$, which is black & not blue which are the uninstall ones. Present in the main Windows (C:/windows) folder.

2.Thanks for clarifying about Ghost software install query.

3.Regarding office updates I meant where are they stored in the OS, folder etc?

4.Presently have installed only the critical updates for XP Pro SP2 & office XP SP3. No driver or recommended updates.

Regards!
 
 
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Re: Required Mr. Christer's comments on XP install
Reply #14 - Dec 16th, 2005 at 10:59am
 
Hello Mr. Christer,

Found 2 more updates, text files, unhidden, in C:/windows.

1. KB893803v2……….# 1
2. KB885884

The first is the Windows installer, yours No1. Don’t know about the second.

Regards!

 
 
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