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Restoring OS only image to new HDD (Read 43015 times)
Dan Goodell
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #60 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 8:45pm
 
Brian wrote:
"Dan, were you able to restore the image to Unallocated Space with the MBR zeroed?"


I didn't know that was an option, so never tried it.  I've always done Partition-to-Image, and upon restore have always preferred to manually create and adjust partition sizes prior to filling the partition with contents from an image.

ckcc wrote:
"Local / Partition / From Image  restoring to unallocated space:  Ghost 2003: greyed out
Local / Drive / From Image  restoring to unallocated space:  Ghost 2003: restores and boots"


Was your image created Disk-to-Image or Partition-to-Image?  I could see where that might make a difference in whether or not it included the MBR.

ckcc wrote:
". . . de.exe . . . Cool program by the way and easy to use."


Yeah, it's a nice clone of the Norton DiskEdit program.  The DiskEdit interface was a little better because it put an entire sector on one screen (de.exe has to scroll), but my old copy of DiskEdit could only do CHS and de.exe can do LBA.  It does have some limitation, though, as I think there's some maximum sector beyond which it can't reach.

The de.exe program is actually called PTS Disk Editor.  It was originally developed by a company called PhysTechSoft.  They got out of the field long ago and switched the focus of their business, but somehow The Starman seems to have permission to continue distributing it.
 
 
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Dan Goodell
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #61 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 8:54pm
 
Brian wrote:
"... Restore MBR ticked ... The OS booted normally and ... the marked MBR was present
... Restore MBR not ticked ... The OS booted normally and ... the marked MBR was not present"


Interesting information.


"So if you don't tick Restore MBR then you get a generic MBR. If I understand Dan correctly, this doesn't matter."


Right, it doesn't matter if it's just an ordinary bootable partition.

It would matter if you had a special MBR, such as boot managers, Disk Manager, EZ-Bios, encrypted file systems, Go-Back, or the special MBRs some manufacturers are starting to use to enable their on-disk restore or HPA access.

 
 
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Brian
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #62 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 8:59pm
 
Dan Goodell wrote on Aug 21st, 2006 at 8:45pm:
Brian wrote:
"Dan, were you able to restore the image to Unallocated Space with the MBR zeroed?"


I didn't know that was an option, so never tried it.  I've always done Partition-to-Image, and upon restore have always preferred to manually create and adjust partition sizes prior to filling the partition with contents from an image.


What confuses me is how did you create that partition and still leave the MBR zeroed. As I mentioned above, Partition Magic creates a MBR.
 
 
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Dan Goodell
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #63 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 9:21pm
 
Christer wrote:
Now, it's time to create the first image and if that one is "disk to image", all subsequent images can be "partition to image".

With this initial image, if Disk0 should die, I would have to restore the initial "disk from image" and I have the option to adjust partition sizes. Next, I would have to restore the most recent "partition from image".


Clever approach.  Based on the experiments others are doing, that should capture the MBR boot code, and I guess it would capture the partition sizes of all the created-but-empty partitions, right?  But the disks have separate partition tables.  Can you put both disks in one image, and if so, I wonder if one image would then capture both partition tables?

Another approach is to just backup the MBR sector with mbrsaver, mbrwork, et al.  Then, at restore time you'd restore the partition tables to layout the partition boundaries, then fill them all with Partition-from-Image contents.  (In fact, you could backup your partition tables now without having to wait until you rebuild the system.)
 
 
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ckcc
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #64 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 9:21pm
 
Was your image created Disk-to-Image or Partition-to-Image?  I could see where that might make a difference in whether or not it included the MBR.


Dan,

my image was created Partition-to-Image... so does not contain the MBR. so is only bootable if restored to an existing partition or a non zeroed drive previously containing a MBR.
 

If anything can go wrong, it already did, and you just now noticed it.
 
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Dan Goodell
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #65 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 9:31pm
 
Brian wrote:
"What confuses me is how did you create that partition and still leave the MBR zeroed. As I mentioned above, Partition Magic creates a MBR."


For the experiment, I used an existing disk and zeroed out the boot code with de.exe and left the partition table.

But on occasion I have manually created a partition table on a blank disk with ptedit or de.exe, and that would leave the boot code area blank.  (In fact, I'm in the middle of doing some research on Host-Protected Areas, in which I'm fooling around with a blank disk and creating and destroying partitions at will.  Can't use PM, as it can't recognize an HPA.)
 
 
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Brian
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #66 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 10:17pm
 
Dan Goodell wrote on Aug 21st, 2006 at 9:31pm:
For the experiment, I used an existing disk and zeroed out the boot code with de.exe and left the partition table.


I understand now. I was zeroing the MBR with MBRWork which zeros the whole of Absolute sector 0. So in Ghost 2003 I just saw Unallocated Space on the HD and it was greyed out so the image couldn't be restored. I found earlier that you could restore a Ghost 2003 image to Unallocated Space if a MBR was present.
 
 
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #67 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 10:26pm
 
Dan Goodell wrote on Aug 21st, 2006 at 9:21pm:
Another approach is to just backup the MBR sector with mbrsaver, mbrwork, et al.  Then, at restore time you'd restore the partition tables to layout the partition boundaries, then fill them all with Partition-from-Image contents.


That's clever too. I just backed up the First track of a multi-partitioned HD with MBRWork, then deleted the partitions and zeroed the MBR. Then used MBRWork to "Restore first track" and all the partitions are back again.

Do you have to use a floppy to "Backup first track"? Can you use a CD and write the backup to the HD?

I tried MBRSaver as well. Really nice restore menu, Dan.
 
 
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Christer
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #68 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 3:41am
 
Dan,

Quote:
Based on the experiments others are doing, that should capture the MBR boot code, and I guess it would capture the partition sizes of all the created-but-empty partitions, right?

Yes, that is how I understand it!

Quote:
Can you put both disks in one image, and if so, I wonder if one image would then capture both partition tables?

I have never tried this but I don't think it would be possible. In Ghost 2003, the source and target partitions can not be the same. The target partition would be included if both disks were included.

I have not been interested in an image of any other partition than the boot/system partition. F: and G: on Disk1 are both targets for backups (using Karens Replicator) of D: and images (using Ghost 2003) of C: respectively on Disk0. E: on Disk0 is a backup (copied in Windows Explorer) of G: on Disk1.

I said "have not been interested in" but as the data partition fills up, it takes longer for KR to run the different jobs (checking each folder and file for changes, adding new folders and files (and it can be set to remove deleted folders and files). Creating an image of the data partition would probably be quicker and retrieving a file or folder from the image in Ghost Explorer would not be much slower than copying the backed up file or folder from Windows Explorer.

I have downloaded the utilities you recommend but have currently not the time for experimentation.

Christer
 

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If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
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Christer
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #69 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 4:03am
 
Dan,

I forgot to mention that Disk1 is in a mobile rack which is not running under normal conditions. Only when I backup/retrieve or create/restore is it running.

I have a third hard disk which goes into the mobile rack. Disk"1b" as it might be named, contains H: and I:. WinXP keeps track of the assigned drive letters as long as I don't restore an image. After restoring an image, Disk"1b" is again unknown and will be assigned the same drive letters as Disk"1a". I will again have to reassign F: > H: and G: > I: respectively.

I think that WinXP stores the volume identities for Disk"1a" and that information is on the image of C:. After restoring an image and rebooting, Disk"1a" is not redetected.

Christer
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
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Dan Goodell
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #70 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 6:35am
 
Brian wrote:
"Do you have to use a floppy to "Backup first track"? Can you use a CD and write the backup to the HD?"


I think mbrwork merely writes to the "current DOS directory".  That's a term that means whereever you were when mbrwork was launched.  If you change the drive or directory so you're not at the prompt for the CD drive letter, that should work.

I boot from a USB thumb drive, and just let mbrwork write on that.

"I tried MBRSaver as well. Really nice restore menu, Dan."


Thanks.  I wrote that program because I couldn't find anything that would restore the MBR boot code from a saved backup without also overwriting the partition table, and vice versa.  Commands like "fixmbr" can avoid the partition table, but they only do generic boot code and can't restore from a saved backup.  All the tools that restore from backups seem to insist on overwriting the whole sector.  I think my program may still be the only one around that can selectively restore parts of the MBR sector.




 
 
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Dan Goodell
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #71 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 6:52am
 
Christer wrote:
"I have not been interested in an image of any other partition than the boot/system partition."


Ah, okay.  I was thinking you were trying to capture the partition layout on both disks.  That would probably require at least one Disk-to-Image for each disk.

If you're not doing images of the non-OS partitions, then I take back my earlier suggestion of just backing up the partition table.  Restoring the partition table only lays out the partition boundaries, but wouldn't properly recreate the actual partition and make it ready to be refilled with files.  Restoring just the partition table only works if you're relying on Ghost to create the actual partition structure within the boundaries the partition table is giving it.

Your idea is looking better.


 
 
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Christer
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #72 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 7:55am
 
Dan,

Quote:
Ah, okay. I was thinking you were trying to capture the partition layout on both disks. That would probably require at least one Disk-to-Image for each disk.

Yes, I am almost sure it would.

If Disk"1b" had (at some point in time) been connected and the drive letters changed to H: and I: prior to creating the initial Disk-to-Image, I think that WinXP would keep track of those drive letter assignments too.

I should have mentioned that a replacement Disk1 would have to be partitioned in Windows XP Disk Management prior to restoring the respective image. I don't think that formating would be necessary. Sorry for leading you astray ... Embarrassed ... !

Quote:
Your idea is looking better.

Well, simpler at least for a layman like myself.

Christer
 

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If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #73 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 9:19am
 
Based on Brian’s Reply #59, we now know:
  • Ghost 10 automatically includes the MBR when creating a recovery point of the operating system partition, as Symantec had previously indicated (see Reply #1).
  • Ghost 10 will restore the MBR contained within the recovery point (.V2I file) if the “Restore Master Boot Record” option is enabled (see page 103 in the Norton Ghost 10.0 User’s Guide).
  • Ghost 10 will write a ‘generic’/’standard’ MBR when (A) restoring an operating system partition and (B) when none is already present on the hard disk drive, if the “Restore Master Boot Record” option is disabled.
  • In conclusion, when using Ghost 10, there is no need for the user to be concerned about manually backing up the MBR – the application handles the hassle.
Kudos to Brian for all of his exceptionally helpful and courteous testing!

P.S.:  Perhaps another member of the forum can summarize the learnings from this thread for Ghost 2003 users?
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
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Re: Restoring OS only image to new HDD
Reply #74 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 6:25pm
 
Dan Goodell wrote on Aug 22nd, 2006 at 6:35am:
I boot from a USB thumb drive, and just let mbrwork write on that.


Dan, I made my first bootable USB thumb drive today and while MBRSaver and MBRWork run OK it doesn't have mouse drivers to run PTEDIT, de.exe, etc. Do you have any easy to follow instructions?
 
 
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