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How to setup automated weekly ghost of running os (Read 45062 times)
Pleonasm
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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #30 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 4:48pm
 
Concerning Reply #29, there may be an easier solution.  In the Windows XP Scheduled Tasks – under the Settings tab – there is an option “Only start the task if the computer has been idle for at least _____ minutes”.
 

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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #31 - Aug 29th, 2006 at 7:56am
 
Pleonasm wrote on Aug 28th, 2006 at 4:48pm:
Concerning Reply #29, there may be an easier solution.  In the Windows XP Scheduled Tasks – under the Settings tab – there is an option “Only start the task if the computer has been idle for at least _____ minutes”.

Pleonasm wrote on Aug 28th, 2006 at 4:31pm:
Well, yes – it’s yet another layer of complexity and another possible fault point for the entire process, but for the person who really wants to do this, this tip might be of assistance.

Thank you both.  I will be checking that box.

 

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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #32 - Aug 29th, 2006 at 11:10am
 
Dan or others, I ask of you some more help.

I hit some road blocks (not mentioned thus far), bashed through a few of them, but alas I'm now stuck.

Here is my setup:
I have onboard RAID 0 SATA running two 36gb raptor drives.
The paired raptors are partitioned to a 30gb 64 OS (c:) and a 40gb XP OS (D:).  I use and keep open the xp os.

I added a 320gb ide drive as a master to the secondary bus (only drive).  The primary has two DVDRW drives on it.

I partitioned the 320 with a 50mb FAT and installed OpenDos 7.01 on it.  The remainder of the drive is partitioned as NTFS for the backups.

Previously, my computer boots to the question “XP or 64” – I had reduced the time to 4s using a registry edit so it is not a nuisance.

From XP I installed PQ BootMagic (from a Partition Magic 8 disk) – this was before OpenDos was installed.  I noticed on reboots nothing BootMagic was not loading.  It turns out it also installed itself on the FAT drive and only loaded the menu when I booted to that drive.

When I rebooted and installed the OpenDOS to the FAT partition, BootMagic picked it right up, and it appears to work fine, i.e. if I boot to the IDE drive, the BM menu comes up and if the DOS OS is selected goes to it fine.  However, the two entries to for the XP and 64 OS do not work.  The only way to boot back to my XP OS is redfine the boot order back to the SATA drives.

Why doesn’t the BM work?  Was the installation location of BM on the FAT the correct one, or is that the problem?

In proofreading this I came up with the idea that the OpenDOS screwed up the BM when it installed over it on that partition.  I am going to test that theory now and reload BootMagic.
 

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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #33 - Aug 29th, 2006 at 11:18am
 
Oh Yeah, Forgot the most important problem...

All of the above is still the case, but in addition to this, now, when I reboot to XP
I Can't see the H Drive!


This would not be the end of the world if it were running fine, because it will simply be there to boot and ghost my OS drives.  In fact given the instructions to do so will be written into the autoexec.bat files, this will nearly have to be an exclusive purpose.  (note I will provide a time sensitive opt out with that bat file).

Anyhow, Im am really stuck right now as PQ BM will not reinstall because it cannot find it's orginial install location.

I am suspecting the solution lies somewheren in the diskmanagment, as when recovering from the stumbling block of setting up the drive as dynamic, I seem to remember something about hiding or not hiding other OS's from xp.  We'll see and post.

Any contributing thoughts and help is welcome.
 

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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #34 - Aug 29th, 2006 at 11:31am
 
Aggg.  I haven't figure this one out yet.  A picture is worth a thousand words so here is a screen shot of my disk managment: http://architectsassociates.net/scottpeach/pictures/disk_manag_peach_8-29-06.jpg.

Until I can see H, I am dead in the water, and I really am at a loss as to how to fix H short of reformat, star over.  WTH?
 

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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #35 - Aug 29th, 2006 at 11:41am
 
Peach, I don’t have a solution to offer for your current difficulty.  I do recommend, however, that you step back and look at the bigger picture.  How much is your time worth?  Wouldn’t it really be better to use a tool that is designed for the task at hand than trying to build one with ‘duct tape & twine’?

Have you considered the use of Symantec Ghost Solution Suite or the newer Symantec Backup Exec set of products?

Best wishes for whatever path you choose.

P.S.:  The fact that it is possible to use a screwdriver to pound a nail into a board doesn’t mean that it is a wise alternative to using a hammer.  Wink
 

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Dan Goodell
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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #36 - Aug 29th, 2006 at 3:55pm
 
You didn't indicate which is supposed to be your 'H' partition.  Judging from your screenshot, I'll guess it's the one labeled 'BU_DOS'.  The first step in diagnosis would be to examine the partition table of the second disk in ptedit32.  My guess is the partition has been marked "hidden".

"Why doesn’t the BM work?  Was the installation location of BM on the FAT the correct one, or is that the problem?"


Yes, that's a problem.  BootMagic is just not a very good boot manager.  Last time I checked, BM could only be installed in a FAT/FAT32 partition.  BU_DOS is the only qualifying partition in your system, so that's where it installed itself.

I'm not clear what you're trying to do with BM, anyway.  If you're trying to build an unattended reboot scheme like I was talking about in reply #17, no boot manager is required.

Furthermore, the method I outlined will not work in your setup because the DOS partition must be on the primary boot disk.  The two pqboot files work by switching the 'active' partition on the primary boot disk, but what you're expecting to do is also switch the boot disk.  That's a whole different can of worms.

I agree with Pleo here.  You're spending a lot of time trying to come up with a bandaid solution when there are more appropriate versions of Ghost for the task you want to perform.
 
 
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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #37 - Aug 29th, 2006 at 8:37pm
 
Out of my league at this point. Kudos for troubleshooting determination. Admirable. You seem close. I *do* enjoy troubleshooting, tho. Gets my brain crankin'.

On a tangential note, can someone (Pleo?) confirm that Ghost Solution suite is based on the original Ghost software (originally developed by Binary Research), whilst Symantec Basckup Exec is based on Drive Image, originally developed by Powerquest? True/Flase?
 
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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #38 - Aug 29th, 2006 at 9:09pm
 
I've used the trial version of Symantec Backup Exec and it's like a combination of Ghost 9 and 10. So it is derived from the PowerQuest software.
 
 
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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #39 - Aug 29th, 2006 at 11:31pm
 
Peach

Read your replies 32, 33, and 34!

I then went back to your original post!

You're proving to be a *moving target*--Dan gave you a very good suggestion--and actually set up a test system as a *proof of concept*--and reported back with a good summary.

I have re-read that outline and I just don't see installing and attempting to use PartitionMagic's BootMagic boot loader as part of the solution he suggested.

If you want to boot from a different HDD, and that depends on the BIOS boot order being altered--you're going to have to find a boot loader that can run a script--and has the ability to adjust the BIOS as well--I have not run across anything like that--but may exist somewhere!

I suggest you keep the BIOS set to boot from you Disk1, use PM to shrink your D:\ partition by about at least 20 MB, and then shrink the Extended Partition around it, create a primary partition with the new unallocated space, and then follow Dan's outline, and you're done--problem(s) solved!

 

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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #40 - Aug 30th, 2006 at 9:30am
 
Dan Goodell wrote on Aug 29th, 2006 at 3:55pm:
…If you're trying to build an unattended reboot scheme like I was talking about in reply #17, no boot manager is required.

Furthermore, the method I outlined will not work in your setup because the DOS partition must be on the primary boot disk.  The two pqboot files work by switching the 'active' partition on the primary boot disk, but what you're expecting to do is also switch the boot disk.  That's a whole different can of worms.

I agree with Pleo here.  You're spending a lot of time trying to come up with a bandaid solution when there are more appropriate versions of Ghost for the task you want to perform.

Dan, seriously – thanks for all the helpful posts.  I do believe my understanding of this whole process is full circle now, and that in of itself is worth going through the effort (on my end anyway).

I am not interested in a Band-Aid.  I don’t believe that is a fair analogy, though, as it implies a temporary solution with an inferior end result.  Should I get this working, albeit a lot more work than Ghost 10, I believe it would be more secure and therefore a superior end result: a bulletproof auto backup that I implicitly trusted. 

I did however go get Ghost 10 yesterday, installed it and ran it.  It was incredibly easy and intuitive to use in every way that I saw.  Its Achilles heel though is it runs from and during Windows, and in that respect I didn't *trust* it like I do 2003.  Trust is earned, and 2003 has my trust.  To date anything that runs from Windows has only earned distrust.  I am very interested in feedback on this –
how *reliable* is the image by Ghost 10?
  In my speed reading of Ghost 10 comments/posts/guides/review etc. I gathered it was fairly good, but *not* as reliable as 2003.  Is that fair? or can I take these images to the bank?
 

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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #41 - Aug 30th, 2006 at 9:38am
 
NightOwl wrote on Aug 29th, 2006 at 11:31pm:
Peach

Read your replies 32, 33, and 34!

I then went back to your original post!

You're proving to be a *moving target*--Dan gave you a very good suggestion--and actually set up a test system as a *proof of concept*--and reported back with a good summary.

I have re-read that outline and I just don't see installing and attempting to use PartitionMagic's BootMagic boot loader as part of the solution he suggested.

If you want to boot from a different HDD, and that depends on the BIOS boot order being altered--you're going to have to find a boot loader that can run a script--and has the ability to adjust the BIOS as well--I have not run across anything like that--but may exist somewhere!

I suggest you keep the BIOS set to boot from you Disk1, use PM to shrink your D:\ partition by about at least 20 MB, and then shrink the Extended Partition around it, create a primary partition with the new unallocated space, and then follow Dan's outline, and you're done--problem(s) solved!

NightOwl, it is not my intent to *appear* to be a moving target - nor would I agree that I am.  I believe I clearly stated in reply #10 that I wasn't out to reinvent the wheel, and that if there was an easier way I was game.  The Ghost 10 is clearly that wheel, and when that was made clear I reconsidered.  I got it yesterday, installed and used it

I agree that Dan's solution was very good - I believe my response was that it was "excellent" and that I would go for it.

As far as you "just don't see installing and attempting to use PartitionMagic's BootMagic boot loader as part of the solution he suggested." Well pqboot.exe is clearly part of his required files for the c:\ partition and the file comes from the Partition Magic CD  - Dan said as much.

I had not realized that pqboot or any boot loader for that matter could not boot to other drives, only other partitions.  Dan pointed this out reply #36, and when he did, it all became very clear what was happening and why.

If I was to pursue this method of auto backup, your suggestion about putting a partition at the end of the d:\ sounds good except I think the order of a multi boot on the same hard disk must go in the order of DOS - 98 - XP, and that dos must be at the front of the drive.  This was the case in Dan’s example.  I believe the only way would be to start from scratch with DOS up front and XP in back like his was.  Then it (clearly) would work.
 

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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #42 - Aug 30th, 2006 at 9:45am
 
Peach

Ghost 10 is very reliable--for most folks--most of the time--just as Ghost 2003 is--for most folks--most of the time!

You won't know if you can *take it to the bank* until you have tried it on each system, made sure there are no *internal* conflicting software/hardware issues--and you actually do a test run of your backup routine--i.e. storing your images on your server, and then doing a restore to confirm all has gone as it *should*!
 

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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #43 - Aug 30th, 2006 at 10:05am
 
NightOwl wrote on Aug 30th, 2006 at 9:45am:
...do a test run of your backup routine-i.e. storing your images on your server, and then doing a restore to confirm all has gone as it *should*!


Yes.  A test run is the only sure test, but what if it ruins the working system during the test?

I only got it yesterday late afternoon and had time to just run one backup.  I certainly will play with it more.  Who knows, maybe I will be its biggest fan.

Thanks to all who helped (pleo, dan, NOwl, rad)
 

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Re: How to setup automated weekly ghost of running
Reply #44 - Aug 30th, 2006 at 10:25am
 
Peach

I think we are talking *apples and oranges*--I don't think you are understanding what Dan outlined based on your responses.

Quote:
Well pqboot.exe is clearly part of his required files for the c:\ partition and the file comes from the Partition Magic CD  

Yes--but *pqboot.exe* is not *BootMagic*!

*pqboot.exe*, *pqbootx.exe* are DOS command line programs that will switch which primary partition is active on the boot HDD and hide the previous active partition while booted to the now active partition.  *pqboot32.exe* is the Windows version of those two DOS command line programs to do a similar action while within Windows.

*BootMagic* is a boot loader that allows for multi-OS booting without using the *Microsoft* way of multi-booting--and without having to *start over* so that the older OS is installed first, and then the newer Windows version(s) installed next so that you get a *multi-boot* menu to choose from and the critical files are not overwritten by the older OS that is not *multi-boot aware*.  (By the way, I think the MS multi-booting method only became available *recently*--maybe Win2k was the first!?  And I don't think the MS multi-boot method will add an option to boot to DOS as an OS option--I think it only adds Windows OS's to the boot menu.)

Quote:
If I was to pursue this method of auto backup, your suggestion about putting a partition at the end of the d:\ sounds good except
I think the order of a multi boot on the same hard disk must go in the order of DOS - 98 - XP
,
and that dos must be at the front of the drive
.

As mentioned above, the order is important only if you are setting things up the MS way of multi-booting.

I could be wrong about where the DOS partition *needs to be*--but I think that requirement was back when the Master Boot Record boot code could not use LBA addressing for large HDD's--and I think that was pre-Win95b fdisk and older.  Easy solution, if it's a problem--use PM to shrink C:\ at the beginning of the partition to create new unallocated space there--create the primary DOS partition there, and populate it with the needed *config.sys* and *autoexec.bat*.

Using *pqboot* will then *hide* your Windows primary partition, make active the DOS primary partition--it becomes C:\ now--and the Windows partition will not be *seen* in DOS, but Ghost 2003 is able to *see* hidden partitions in it's interface--and it also can be NTFS and Ghost 2003 will still *see* it.  When done using the DOS active partition, *pqboot* will then *hide* the DOS primary partition, make active the Windows primary partition, and Windows will boot as usual.

Multi-booting--yes--but not the MS way--or *BootMagic* way either!

Dan has a very good website about multi-booting if you really want to understand what's going on:  
Understanding MultiBooting and Booting Windows from an Extended Partition

 

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