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Save&Restore--incremental backup (Read 11294 times)
jcimarron
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Save&Restore--incremental backup
Jan 25th, 2007 at 6:07pm
 
Situation:  C:\  size 26GB.  External USB Z:\ size 36 GB.  Both formatted NTFS.  I have no problem making an image of C:\ on Z:\ if I start with an empty Z:\ drive.
But I cannot successfully make an incremental backup of C:\ some days later on the Z:\ which contains the original backup.
I try to follow the directions on Pages 56 (and following--especially page 58 ) of the Save&Restore User Guide.
If I indicate (highlight) the existing backup on the BackupNow window, I usually am told there is not enough room on the Z:\ drive.  It obviously wants to create a full new backup, and of course, 2x26GB won't fit on the 36 GB Z:\ drive.
The one time I set up to create a backup by setting up a new backup (but still on the Z:\ drive) , but at the last moment switching over to highlight the exisiting backup on Z:\ , a new backup was indeed created on Z:\ but resulting in two CDrive.00x.v2i files (with x=1 and 2 respectively).  They both were 17 GB.  So it would seem I again have created two full backups, rather than one original plus an incremental backup.  And now Z:\ is full and if I try to backup to it again, the option to Recovery Point Set is grayed out.
Can someone, in fairly simple terms, tell me how to create an incremental backup--if necessary starting with the first backup on the clean Z:\ drive, if one of my settings for doing that is incorrect and causing the problem?
Thanks.
 

Jim
 
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Brian
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Re: Save&Restore--incremental backup
Reply #1 - Jan 25th, 2007 at 6:37pm
 
Jim,

I haven't tried creating incremental recovery points on an external HD so I don't know if there is a problem. Could you try this test and let us know the result? Delete your recovery points from the external HD. Create a recovery point to the external HD. Wait 2 minutes, click Backup Now and see if an incremental recovery point is created. If you do have an incremental recovery point then shutdown the computer. Start the computer, click Backup Now and see if another incremental recovery point is created.
 
 
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Re: Save&Restore--incremental backup
Reply #2 - Jan 26th, 2007 at 12:59pm
 
Brian--Let me be sure I understand your suggestion.
First, are the "recovery points" the CDrive.00x.v2i files?  There are additional files on Z:\ after I create a backup--even the original.  I want to delete what you are suggesting--not more and not less. 
Second, one thing I have not understood from the S&R manual is when to check that box saying something like "set a recovery point".  I think it is at the bottom left of the window that appears after the Backup Now window.  (I am using the Wizard.)  What is the functional difference in checking it and not?  Since I am originally trying to create a backup (using the Wizard) on a blank Z:\ drive I would have thought that a "recovery point" would automatically be created.  And then perhaps not when I try to incrementally backup the original backup a few days later.  You can see I am confused about the difference between "Backup" and "Recovery Point".  Maybe I missed it, but the user manual does not seem to explain the "set a recovery point" option box.
Third, following up on the previous paragraph, how will I know if I have created an incremental backup?  What type of file (or name) will it have? 

Thank you.
P.S.  It probably is obvious, but the Situation I outlined in my first post could be slightly misleading.  The C:\ drive is actually 160GB, but the amount of data on it is only 26GB.
 

Jim
 
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Re: Save&Restore--incremental backup
Reply #3 - Jan 26th, 2007 at 4:01pm
 
Jim, Ghost 10 changed the terminology and I don't like it either. Here are the Ghost 9 to Ghost 10 changes.

Quote:
1. backup job > backup, created when you define a new backup.

2. backup image > recovery point, referring to points in time
   to which you can recover files, folders, or whole computer
   systems.

3. base with incrementals > recovery point set, or a base
   recovery point with incremental recovery points.

4. full backup > independent recovery point

5. image file > recovery point

6. Backup Image Browser > Recovery Point Browser


So the recovery points are your CDrive.00x.v2i and CDrive.00x.iv2i files. You will see a single .sv2i file in the folder as well. This is an index file and can be ignored. You don't need it.

Quote:
I want to delete what you are suggesting--not more and not less.   

Let's start by deleting all .v2i, .iv2i, .sv2i if they are present.


Quote:
The C:\ drive is actually 160GB, but the amount of data on it is only 26GB


With compression your .v2i recovery point should be 16 to 20 GB. This is how I setup the Backup.

Start Ghost 10
Click Back up Now
click Define New backup
Define Backup Wizard opens, Next
select the drive to backup, Next
choose Recovery point set (recommended), Next
Choose location and filename, Next
Choose desired compression, Tick Verify recovery point after creation, Choose your Limit...(I leave unticked), ignore Advanced unless you want to split the image, Next
Dot in Scheduled, click Define Custom Schedule
Scheduling tab,Top part is for the days and the time that recovery points (Base and Incremental) will be created. I tick all days.
Untick "Create more than one recovery point per day" if you only need one , otherwise choose the number of incremental recovery points
Choose frequency of Base recovery points at the bottom, eg weekly, monthly, etc    I choose weekly
Click "Event trigger" tab, Choose any of the four or leave unticked, (I leave unticked) OK, Next
Tick "Create recovery point now" if you want it done before the scheduled time, Finish

Let's say you tick "Limit the number of recovery points saved for each drive" and choose 4. Then as soon as Ghost has created set #5, set #1 will be deleted. After set #6 is created, set #2 is deleted. I leave the Limit unticked and delete the old recovery sets manually.
 
 
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jcimarron
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Re: Save&Restore--incremental backup
Reply #4 - Jan 26th, 2007 at 7:53pm
 
Brian--Thanks again.
I am going to have to study what you have said a little more.  But here are my intial reactions.
What you describe in your last paragraph " This is how I setup the Backup." is what I did to create the original backup (recovery point?) resulting in a C_Drive00
1
.v2i file.  I had it verified as part of the creation process.  It seems to function well.  I can open it and use the contained files to access programs, internet files, etc.
But how do I create an incremental back up of that file?

Whatever I do either results in a message that there is not enough space or what looks like a full new backup (recovery point?) with a name C_Drive00
2
.v2i . (You are right that both are about 17GB in size.)
As you can see I still do not understand the difference between a backup and a recovery point.  And what the difference in outcome is whether or not I check that box "Recovery point set (recommended).

Maybe the external USB drive is the problem.  Maybe I should just format (wipe out the files on) the Z:\ drive each time I want to make a backup/recovery point and, indeed, make a fresh and full backup/recovery point and stop trying to make an incremental backup?
 

Jim
 
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Re: Save&Restore--incremental backup
Reply #5 - Jan 26th, 2007 at 8:07pm
 
jcimarron wrote on Jan 26th, 2007 at 7:53pm:
But how do I create an incremental back up of that file?


The incremental recovery points should be created daily with my scenario. If you click the Backup Now button in Ghost 10 (or NSR) then an incremental recovery point should be created.

Quote:
I still do not understand the difference between a backup and a recovery point.

They are the same.

Quote:
Maybe the external USB drive is the problem.

That's what I'm trying to determine with the test.

I like incremental recovery points. On my computer they are only 2% of the size of a baseline recovery point so you can create a lot of them without worrying about filling up the drive.

Is your internal HD partitioned? Do you have a second internal HD?
 
 
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Re: Save&Restore--incremental backup
Reply #6 - Jan 27th, 2007 at 5:48pm
 
Brian--I tried to do what you first suggested--deleted the two backups (*.v2i) and the index file (*.sv2i)  on Z:\ leaving only
NG Recovery Point Storage.ini
System Volume Information (empty) and
RECYCLER
I then tried to do a backup, but SNR would not allow it.   (I am embarrassed.  I was frustrated and I cannot remember the message.  Probably something about there not being enough room.)
Then I clicked Remove Backup on the BackUp Now screen and now was permitted to create only an "Independent Recovery Point"--not a Recovery point Set.
I did not proceed.
I formatted Z:\ and was permitted to do a Recovery Point Set.

I have been doing more reading.  Like
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=print;num=1146609...

Is it possible that incremental backups are possible only when backups are scheduled?  I have been doing all backups manually.  I have never seen a file with .iv2i extension on my PC.

So I think I will just keep formatting the drive each time I want to run a backup and not worry about incremental backups.    
Thank you.  I have learned a lot.

P.S.  Is a Base Recovery Point (on the Schedule screen) the same thing as a Recovery Point?   (That User Guide is not much help.)
 

Jim
 
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Re: Save&Restore--incremental backup
Reply #7 - Jan 27th, 2007 at 9:33pm
 
Jim, I should have mentioned to delete NG Recovery Point Storage.ini as well. Leave no Norton files. I think this file caused your problems as it told Ghost that the "drive was full". You should NEVER have to format your external HD.

I just installed NSR on a test WinXP partition. I plugged in an external HD and made it Z: drive, like yours. I setup a Recovery Point Set. Manual, not scheduled. Images were made to the external HD. I clicked Backup Now and the first image (recovery point) was 1000 MB. I clicked Backup Now on 4 more occasions and each incremental recovery point was only half a MB. So Manual does work for me but I don't know why it doesn't for you. I do recall a problem ages ago with my images that was related to a DEP setting. It works better for some with DEP ON for essential progs and better for others with DEP ON for all progs. Try it both ways.

Quote:
To modify the DEP policy in Windows

   1. On the Windows taskbar, click Start > Control Panel.
   2. Double-click System.
   3. On the Advanced tab, under Performance, click Settings.
   4. On the Data Execution Prevention tab, check Turn on DEP for all programs and services except those I select.
   5. Click OK to save the change.

I think you are really missing a useful function if you can't get incrementals to work.
 
 
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Re: Save&Restore--incremental backup
Reply #8 - Jan 31st, 2007 at 12:21pm
 
Brian--I am in the middle of another project, but will try as you proposed in a couple of days.
My DEP is already set up the way you suggested.
 

Jim
 
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Re: Save&Restore--incremental backup
Reply #9 - Jan 31st, 2007 at 7:19pm
 
Brian--I also should have mentioned that I am not sure I see much difference between your advice to first remove the existing recovery points and index file (and now NG Recovery Point Storage.ini ) before trying your experiment and what I  have been doing when I format the external Z:\ drive, then create a new recovery point and sometime later try to Backup again--hoping I will create an incremental file.  From memory my procedure also deletes Recycler.  Otherwise the Z:\ looks pretty much the same before creating the new recovery point.
 

Jim
 
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Re: Save&Restore--incremental backup
Reply #10 - Jan 31st, 2007 at 7:44pm
 
Jim, no difference. I was just suggesting to have an empty HD. It doesn't matter how it's done.

I looked up my notes. When I had DEP set to ON for all progs, I couldn't create manual recovery points. Your computer could be entirely different.
 
 
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Re: Save&Restore--incremental backup
Reply #11 - Feb 1st, 2007 at 6:57pm
 
Brian--Thanks.  Maybe I should try creating an incremental point by checking "Turn on DEP for essential Windows programs and services only"?
 

Jim
 
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Re: Save&Restore--incremental backup
Reply #12 - Feb 1st, 2007 at 7:05pm
 
Jim, when I used DEP set to ON for all progs, I couldn't even create a manual baseline image. But this is the suggested Symantec setting. So try both.
 
 
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