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Hybrid Hard Drive (Read 10268 times)
Pleonasm
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Hybrid Hard Drive
Mar 19th, 2007 at 10:40am
 
Quote:
Do not run Vista without a new hybrid hard drive, or HHD.  These drives, rarely discussed since they’re not widely available, are a must if you want to get the most out of Vista.  Vista is specifically designed to talk to these new drives, and its performance with HHDs is rumored to be phenomenal.
Source:  PC Magazine, April 20, 2007, page 122

What do the members of this forum know about HHDs?  My understanding is that they are essentially a standard hard disk drive, but contain an embedded flash memory drive on which Windows Vista can maintain its SuperFetch (ReadyDrive) cache.  Why this would be faster than the Windows Vista ReadyBoost feature (an external USB flash drive used as a cache) is unclear to me, however.
 

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MrMagoo
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Re: Hybrid Hard Drive
Reply #1 - Mar 20th, 2007 at 1:24am
 
The flash can be read in a random access fashion - eliminating seek times, which is why it is such a great place for the SuperFetch cache.  It is faster than USB because sustained data transfer speeds for a SATA interface are much higher than a USB interface.
 
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Pleonasm
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Re: Hybrid Hard Drive
Reply #2 - Mar 20th, 2007 at 12:04pm
 
Thanks for the note, MrMagoo.

To summarize, SuperFetch (ReadyDrive) transfers data from flash memory via the SATA interface of the hard disk drive in which it is embedded, whereas ReadyBoost transfers data from flash memory via the USB interface – and, the latter is slower than the former.

Now I see.
 

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Pleonasm
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Re: Hybrid Hard Drive
Reply #3 - Apr 5th, 2007 at 1:48pm
 
An excellent article describing the ReadyBoost, ReadyDrive and ReadyBoot features of Windows Vista is:  Goosing Windows Vista.
 

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nbree
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Re: Hybrid Hard Drive
Reply #4 - Apr 5th, 2007 at 6:04pm
 
Another interesting article from Lenovo to add to the mix.

Some points I'd add:
- You don't want writes buffered in a removable cache, so hybrids get half a tick for write buffering. Having the solid-state memory integrated elsewhere in the system where it's non-removable is a different matter, as noted in Lenovo's article.
- Integrated caches fill themselves parasitically; external caches need to be filled separately, which incurs a cost. The cost may be small, but it needs to be close to zero for the cache to be worth filling speculatively.
- Existing hybrid drives get pretty small caches; this is for low-cost applications. For performance applications, you want to be using a quality RAID controller anyway, and that's a much more intelligent place to put some solid-state storage than on the drives, because it can be a lot bigger.

One of the developers here at work recently build himself a new home gaming system and dropped a hefty chunk of change on a 4-port 3Ware PCIe RAID controller. Yesterday his opinion was that the 3Ware was well worth every dollar, and made more difference than any other component.

It's early days, though. I can see some species of flash cache becoming effectively universal in notebooks for the power-management benefits alone, and that means that the long-run manufacturing costs of each type are going to end up playing a big part; Microsoft pushing hybrids as part of co-marketing with Vista probably means that they'll get to enjoy real enconomies of scale sooner than other approaches, which could seal the deal.
 
 
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Rad
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Re: Hybrid Hard Drive
Reply #5 - Apr 5th, 2007 at 10:19pm
 
interesting choice of terminolgy: hybrid.

cuz that's the word i chose to describe a combination of a (small, fast, reliable) 15K-rpm scsi boot/system drive (to run o/s & programs) and a big ide/sata drive for lots of cheap mass storage. best of both worlds (performance & value).

http://scsi.radified.com/

i still think my method is the *real* hybrid disk storage system.  Cool
 
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nbree
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Re: Hybrid Hard Drive
Reply #6 - Apr 6th, 2007 at 2:54am
 
Heh, good point there Rad. Mind you, it's interesting to see how SCSI and IDE have evolved into SAS and SATA; it's particularly interesting that they engineered SAS to be able to host SATA drives as well.

We have a few xSeries 226 IBM boxen downstairs in the QA lab, and they are pretty nice machines (especially for the price), loaded up with a couple SAS drives they crank pretty well - and they throw some SATA connectors into the mix as well so you can add boatloads of commodity storage as well.

I think they took your guide to heart Smiley. In terms of sheer flexibility in storage choices from fast to cheap they are really impressive.
 
 
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Pleonasm
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Re: Hybrid Hard Drive
Reply #7 - Apr 7th, 2007 at 2:40pm
 
Do the ReadyBoost, ReadyDrive and ReadyBoot features of Windows Vista only cache executable application files – or, might they also store frequently used data files (e.g., a Microsoft Word document)?  If the latter, there may exist a security issue in so far as an unencrypted copy of an encrypted disk data file could be present in the flash memory.
 

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Rad
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Re: Hybrid Hard Drive
Reply #8 - Apr 9th, 2007 at 9:52am
 
Quote:
it's particularly interesting that they engineered SAS to be able to host SATA drives


I didn't know you could run SATA drives off a SAS controller. Guess the operative word is "serial".

Any particular controllers/adapters or brands you like?
 
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Pleonasm
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Re: Hybrid Hard Drive
Reply #9 - Apr 9th, 2007 at 10:05am
 
Rad, yes – independently of Nbree’s comments, I too have read that SAS controllers can be used to support SATA hard disk drives.  However, since I do not now have a SAS controller, I can’t offer any brand recommendations.

One interesting question is whether the use of a SAS controller in conjunction with SATA hard disk drives yields any performance benefit (e.g., via the use of an onboad processor versus sharing the main processor).  Any insight on this point?
 

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nbree
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Re: Hybrid Hard Drive
Reply #10 - Apr 9th, 2007 at 10:49pm
 
Rad wrote on Apr 9th, 2007 at 9:52am:
Any particular controllers/adapters or brands you like?

I only know about what we see come through QA's hardware purchases, and they are more about general compatibility testing rather than performance benchmarking. The xSeries 226's were bought last year specifically to test SAS (a few being kitted with dual EMT64 Xeons as platform tests for x64 Server 2003, which did incidentally reveal a difference for our code compared to the multicore Athlons). So far I don't believe we've looked at separate SAS controllers or other SAS server models; we've got various other lower-end server hardware mostly from Dell and HP, but as lower-end models they tend to have onboard SATA-based RAID.

As to performance, the SATA-to-SAS process is just a tunneling of the SATA command set (much the same as ATAPI was just a tunneling of the original SCSI command set over an ATA command), so not much difference there. However, the host controllers in the 226's are quite different from each other (a RAID controller versus a low-overhead Intel AHCI SATA host adapter) making it not entirely apples-to-apples.

Still, my gut feeling is that SAS and SATA are pretty close to parity right now; SAS has been planned with a lot more headroom, but right now today both interfaces deliver plenty of bandwidth relative to the sustained drive throughputs - the change to PCIe has also levelled things out a bit (compared to recent years with the server-only halfway-house of PCI-X for add-on host controllers).

Basically, you can build some serious storage arrays out of either. A 3Ware or Areca (check out this review) RAID controller with dedicated hardware XOR and those 750Gb Seagates is going to have terrifyingly high throughput and terrifyingly huge capacity for surprisingly little outlay, while an array of 15,000RPM SAS drives will be smaller and much more expensive but will still naturally win on seek-intensive workloads (manufacturers will probably keep drives in that category SAS much as they did in past generations, as a useful way to distinguish them and thus preserve a price premium from commodity drives).

It's not really an either-or question, but more one of designing storage to match a workload and a budget. There are corners of the price/latency/capacity/throughput space where each technology still has a unique place, and a huge middle where either can deliver well, and where the distinctions come down more to how individual products in the lineup perform than technologies.
 
 
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Pleonasm
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Re: Hybrid Hard Drive
Reply #11 - Apr 11th, 2007 at 12:49pm
 
For more good information on ReadyBoost, see:

    Tom Archer's Blog
    Inside the Windows Vista Kernel:  Part 2
 

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Re: Hybrid Hard Drive
Reply #12 - Apr 19th, 2007 at 4:11pm
 
A good article on the subject of SuperFetch and ReadyBoost:  Windows Vista's SuperFetch and ReadyBoost Analyzed
 

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