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Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone? (Read 17673 times)
Pleonasm
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Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:29am
 
With the recent release of new versions of several of the Norton products by Symantec, it now appears that Ghost 2003 is absent from Norton Save and Restore 2.0, Norton Ghost 12.0 and Norton SystemWorks Premier.  Stated differently, new copies of Ghost 2003 are not available for purchase at retail.

As a consequence, the sad day has arrived in which Ghost 2003 is no longer a backup option for consumers who are presently lacking a license.  This application has served many users well over the years, and it is disappointing to witness the beginning of its demise and eventual disappearance from the PC consumer landscape.

On the bright side, Symantec Sales (800-441-7234) has indicated that Ghost 8.2 (the Windows PE version of Ghost 2003 in DOS) will continue to be included with Norton SystemWorks Premier as part of the Norton Save and Restore 1.0 component through September, 2007.

The corporate version of Ghost 2003 (i.e., Ghost Solution Suite) continues to be sold, of course.

A description of the history of Ghost may be found in this article.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
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NightOwl
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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #1 - May 3rd, 2007 at 10:22am
 
Pleonasm

There continues to be sources for Ghost 2003 if you look for older products still available to purchase:

Ghost 2003 & Live Update???

FREE: Norton Ghost 10 w/v2003 CD / PM8 / NIS2007

Isn't it interesting that DOS based Ghost is still *compatible* with Windows Vista if you use it correctly for the changes that have been introduced to the Master Boot Record!!!--while Ghost 9/10, and Save and Restore--Windows dependent programs--are *history* as far as Vista is concerned:

Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
 

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Pleonasm
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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #2 - May 3rd, 2007 at 12:04pm
 
NightOwl, there are certainly residual copies of Ghost 2003 available through some sources – but, the key point is that no new inventory will now be forthcoming.  So, as the existing supply is exhausted, Ghost 2003 will (unfortunately) be going, going … gone.

For the historians of Ghost, the milestone marking the “end” of Ghost 2003 should read:  “May 1st, 2007” (i.e., the date that Norton Ghost 12 appeared and Norton Ghost 10 – which included Ghost 2003 – disappeared).  Out of respect, this event does deserve to be noted.
    Ode to the Ghost

    In city of Auckland,
    With cash in hand,
    Binary Research in 1996 made the plan:
    To create and restore,
    Images and clones galore,
    To ensure backup came to the fore.

    General Hardware-Oriented Software Transfer,
    Or, G.H.O.S.T. – should we prefer?
    Spread well beyond the Tasman Sea,
    Achieving accolades and glee,
    Among all it saved and set free.

    In the year two-thousand and seven,
    On the day of May first it was given,
    The Ghost of 2003, sadly, moved onto heaven.
Requiescat in pace
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
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NightOwl
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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #3 - May 3rd, 2007 at 1:54pm
 
Pleonasm

I love it  Grin great post!
 

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Rama
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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #4 - May 4th, 2007 at 6:50am
 
Wonderful. I did not realize we have a resident Poet!

Rama
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #5 - May 5th, 2007 at 12:43am
 
Ghost 2003 has been a godsend for me.  I came to know of it back when I discovered Rad's site in my search for instructions on how to partition a drive.

I do NOT look forward to the day I have to move on to something else.  In what I've used it for, it's been flawless.
 
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Pleonasm
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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #6 - May 5th, 2007 at 10:23am
 
NightOwl and Rama, thank you for your kind comments on my attempt to author an "Ode to the Ghost."

Sumrica, I believe that history will record Ghost 2003 as one of those rare and elite applications that has had a lasting and significant impact upon the PC landscape.  It spearheaded the concept of image backup and in the process created an entirely new "industry" of such tools.

Evolution and progress has occurred, though.  Today, individual PC users are fortunate to have the ability to choose among a number of equally reliable products, the core essence of which are all quite similar.  Thus, although Ghost 2003 is "deceased," it has succeeded in leaving behind a lasting legacy of successors for consumers.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
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John.
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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #7 - May 7th, 2007 at 9:01am
 
NightOwl wrote on May 3rd, 2007 at 10:22am:
Isn't it interesting that DOS based Ghost is still *compatible* with Windows Vista if you use it correctly for the changes that have been introduced to the Master Boot Record!!!--while Ghost 9/10, and Save and Restore--Windows dependent programs--are *history* as far as Vista is concerned:
Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista


I have been following an interesting thread on the True Image forum entitled Vista: Are there issues with the disk ID?.  On the second page (posts #35 and 36) of the thread there is an informative comment about Vista changes that are implemented in preparation for newer large-sector hard drives, not Vista itself.

Quote:
It’s only ever the first partition on a drive that Vista will change the traditional starting sector. It’s all to do with future large-sector hard drive support.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/923332


From the Microsoft KB article, I gather that the 512 bytes/sector will change on these new drives.

So the question will become, "Will Ghost 2003 handle the new hardware correctly with the new offset and new sector sizes?"

It will also be interesting to see if Norton Save & Restore 2.0 and Ghost 12 will handle this?

From this and other threads I have been following, I have just about concluded that when restoring a hard drive image with one or more Vista partitions, you should either write zeros to the target hard drive first (or use a new one) before restoring for the most trouble-free experience.
 

Ghost4me  Ghost 9, 10, 12, 14, 15.  Windows XP, Vista, Windows 7
 
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El_Pescador
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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #8 - May 7th, 2007 at 11:05am
 
John. wrote on May 7th, 2007 at 9:01am:
"... From this and other threads I have been following, I have just about concluded that when restoring a hard drive image with one or more Vista partitions, you should either write zeros to the target hard drive first (or use a new one) before restoring for the most trouble-free experience..."

I was homebuilding a desktop PC the other day with the intention of installing an early OEM edition of Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 (using the flaky two-disk set), and I encountered a crippled system over a half-dozen times in two days.  To make a long story very short, I have since adopted these two rules: (1) I must be absolutely sure that I am starting with RAM that is totally compatible with the motherboard/processor/OS combination; and (2) I will use
GDisk
n
/diskwipe
beforehand to perform a low-level format (actually a zero-fill operation) on the target HDD so as to let the Windows installation CD perform its default initialization and file system formatting without prior intervention or prepation of any kind (partitioning will only take place later after a stable system has been thoroughly vetted).

EP
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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #9 - May 7th, 2007 at 12:03pm
 
Some of the utilities from the drive manufacturers write zeros to just the first and last 100 mb of the drive, which is quick.  And, as I understand it, works just as well because it erases the MBR etc and all traces of anything previously on the drive.  (Of course that isn't a secure wipe, but that's another subject.)
 

Ghost4me  Ghost 9, 10, 12, 14, 15.  Windows XP, Vista, Windows 7
 
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Richard K
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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #10 - May 7th, 2007 at 6:16pm
 
Ghost.exe is readily available, as others have pointed out.  I don't understand the license issue- am I too naive or ignorant?  Can't anybody download ghost.exe from some place and just use it?  I thought there was a link in the Ghost guide- of course I could be imagining that.

I bought NSW something back when it was new and have been using ghost 2003 since then.  Do I have a permanent license to use it or do I need to watch my back when I do a backup image?

Richard
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #11 - May 8th, 2007 at 3:53am
 
Richard K wrote on May 7th, 2007 at 6:16pm:
Can't anybody download ghost.exe from some place and just use it?

Not legally, no. Although in the very early days Ghost was downloadable with a fairly generous 30-day shareware-type evaluation license for single-computer use, it has always been licensed and it has always been completely clear that it's necessary to pay for individual licenses when regularly used with more than one PC.

[ Now, I'm no particular fan of the BSA and some of their wildly exaggerated claims with respect to the economic cost of piracy, but I have to say that being on my side of the fence I've seen some pretty blatant abuses. I've got a fairly generous view of human nature, and I think that most people are honest, but the exceptions are pretty eyebrow-raising. ]

Quote:
Do I have a permanent license to use it or do I need to watch my back when I do a backup image?

It's a perpetual license, and you can continue to use the version you've purchased as long as you want. The same applies to the corporate edition - we don't expire the licenses for it either.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #12 - May 8th, 2007 at 12:28pm
 
Quote:
"... (Ghost is) a perpetual license, and you can continue to use the version you've purchased as long as you want. The same applies to the corporate edition - we don't expire the licenses for it either..."

A few years back, I purchased literally dozens of Norton SystemWorks 2003 Professional OEM CDs for a pittance (http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1104074901/2#2) primarily for the Norton Ghost 2003 aspect of the suite.  Between those copies still onhand and the 'lagniappe' Norton Ghost 2003 CDs derived from the retail boxed copies of Norton Ghost Versions 9.0 and 10.0 included in Symantec bundles, I have amassed at minimal cost a considerable surplus of Symantec products still sealed in their original sleeves that far outstrip the needs of family and friends.  As an aside, let me say that just about every PC currently in my extended circle has Norton Ghost 2003 installed plus v2003 on bootable media in addition to a Reatogo-X-PE CD bearing Norton Ghost Ver 8.2 with either an accompanying Ghost 10.0 or Norton Save & Restore installation CD close at hand to validate the WIN PE.

So, is it both ethical and proper for me to offer to sell or swap a 'virgin' Norton item to any member or viewer of these boards under such conditions of scarcity?  My motivation is now realizing that Norton Ghost 2003 will eventually fade away plus the immediate realization that new copies of the Norton SystemWorks 2003 Professional OEM CD are just about gone.  An earnest online search turned up the single website (http://www.zipstorage.com/norsys20prof.html) illustrated below that reflected a reasonable price without an 'Out-of-Stock' notation:

...

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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #13 - May 9th, 2007 at 5:36am
 
El_Pescador wrote on May 8th, 2007 at 12:28pm:
So, is it both ethical and proper for me to offer to sell or swap a 'virgin' Norton item to any member or viewer of these boards under such conditions of scarcity?

Excellent question. Mind you, as part of the background for my views, I live in a country that has a Common Law legal tradition and has the Fair Trading Act and the Consumer Guarantees Act as the law of the land. Requirements of "Fairness" and "Reasonable" set a bar that many if not most software EULAs don't pass.

Personally, I would consider it ethical to transfer a license like that in a secondary-market transaction, provided that the seller really does transfer all the physical materials and proof of purchase (and doesn't retain any copies). If those simple rules are followed, I don't see any harm in license transfers, and companies that do try and forbid such transfers outright really aren't showing a lot of respect for their customers.

To me, the gold standard in license agreements is still the classic Borland "no-nonsense" one. Now, it's hard to apply that to a download-only product (one of the things we expect as part of download-only product is that we can't transfer it like a physical product), but I still think that in the history of the computer industry it's one of the finer examples of a company that tended to treat their customers with respect (at least from about 1983 through 96 - I'll always fondly remember the original Turbo Pascal on CP/M).
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003:  Going, Going, … Gone?
Reply #14 - May 9th, 2007 at 8:15am
 
Quote:
El_Pescador wrote on May 8th, 2007 at 12:28pm:
So, is it both ethical and proper for me to offer to sell or swap a 'virgin' Norton item to any member or viewer of these boards under such conditions of scarcity?


To me, the gold standard in license agreements is still the classic Borland "no-nonsense" one. Now, it's hard to apply that to a download-only product (one of the things we expect as part of download-only product is that we can't transfer it like a physical product), but I still think that in the history of the computer industry it's one of the finer examples of a company that tended to treat their customers with respect (at least from about 1983 through 96 - I'll always fondly remember the original Turbo Pascal on CP/M).


Let me add. Two other examples stand out in the Industry. One is the attempt by Arthur Osborne to sell programs at inexpensive price and sell them in huge quantities. The other is the success of Intuit when they first introduced Quicken. It was inexpensive, when it was expensive even to copy the CD, there was no registration of any kind and they sold in huge quantities and made a lot of money. Later on when they became large, they got greedy and some of you recall they unannounced included tracking program which was installed in user computers and sending back customer info to Intuit servers and user community was mad. Personally, I do not register any product - computer or otherwise I buy off the shelf unless activation is needed to use it.

Once you make the software expensive, individual users tend to find work arounds and use pirated copies. Considering the number of computers in use in homes, making software accessible at a reasonable price (with downloads, reported 300MBS on the way, cuts down all the overhead costs to a minimum) is a win-win for all. Hopefully, some software company may lead the way in the future.

Rama
 
 
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