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Ghost 12 problems (Read 50172 times)
Brian
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #30 - Aug 14th, 2007 at 4:08pm
 
NightOwl wrote on Aug 14th, 2007 at 3:57pm:
I wonder if Ghost 9 and 10 have this ability as well!!!?

NightOwl,

I'll try it when I have time. In my previous tests I only used a drive letter of "None".




rleescott,

We now have a copy of your boot.ini so it's safe to do the edit. Delete that second line. It should now be.

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

Reboot and make sure you aren't seeing the boot menu.

Shutdown, connect the new HD as a slave, startup. From Disk Management, delete the partition on the new HD. Do the clone procedure. When Ghost has finished, shutdown. Remove the new HD. Boot to the old HD and make sure it looks OK. Shutdown and replace the old HD with the new HD. Adjust jumpers. Boot to the new HD. Everything OK?
 
 
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rleescott
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #31 - Aug 15th, 2007 at 2:39pm
 
Brian ,Nightowl and others:
If you wondered what has happened, here it is. I deleted the winxp/2003 line in the boot log of both the original drive and the copy, and both booted properly as you expected. I then followed the instructions given for copy, being careful to label clone drive as none, which is the default. Of course I deleted the slave C: drive in disk man. leaving all unallocated space.
Just so you will know, when doing this on an existing bootable system, I receive the warning "cannot proceed, volume in use, close all applic, etc. This may be do to bootable system on disk, but I was allowed to force the deletion, risking that some applications may not work that are related to the receiving disk. Since I was copying to it, who cares, right? Otherwise, I couldn't proceed anyway. The copy fininshed successfully. I checked each drive as a single after shutdown, I did not reboot with master/slave arrangement intact.
The dual boot returned to both the original drive and the copy. I am shocked, aren't you? Yes, I can delete the line again for each drive, but I shouldn't have to.
Now what is with this program?
 
 
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Brian
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #32 - Aug 15th, 2007 at 2:59pm
 
rleescott,

Quote:
Now what is with this program?

It could be my fault. I have not done this test but I've wondered whether a reboot is needed after deleting a partition from Windows so that Windows forgets there was a partition in that place. I've always deleted partitions from DOS so I didn't encounter your situation. Where I said...

Quote:
From Disk Management, delete the partition on the new HD. Do the clone procedure.

I probably should have said, "From Disk Management, delete the partition on the new HD. Reboot. Do the clone procedure."

If WinXP sees two active OS it will setup a dual boot menu. A reboot is probably necessary to remove the entry of the second OS from MountedDevices in the registry.

Are you strong enough for another clone. I realize it's working properly now but do you have time?

NightOwl, what do you think about the reboot?
 
 
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rleescott
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #33 - Aug 15th, 2007 at 3:50pm
 
Please don't apologize. If not for your help and nightowl's I would have given up long ago. I'm more than willing to try again. Do you think that someone besides me would be using a used drive for backup copy and therefore would also have encountered this? Futhermore, the user guide instructions are become more and more deficient for copying. What about all the other features of the program as they relate to the guide accuracy? Also, if you recall, I formatted the second drive before my first clone attempt, even though I did go to unallocated space. Did the format prevent this dual boot issue? If so, the user guide is even more flawed, because it says format isn't necessary, as if, no one ever makes a copy unless they go out and by a virgin drive.
Anyway, I will get back after the new test.
 
 
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Brian
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #34 - Aug 15th, 2007 at 4:06pm
 
rleescott,

These are my comments on the Ghost 10 userguide entry for "Copy my Hard Drive".

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=11482...

The Ghost 12 userguide is even worse. There are no instructions about what to do when the clone has completed.

Quote:
Do you think that someone besides me would be using a used drive for backup copy and therefore would also have encountered this?

I'm sure you aren't alone.

Quote:
Did the format prevent this dual boot issue?

Remember, you didn't have two active OS at this stage.
 
 
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Brian
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #35 - Aug 15th, 2007 at 4:35pm
 
The Ghost userguides remind me of Clint Eastwood's approach to instruction manuals in Space Cowboys.

Quote:
Let me tell you something, my dear. Those instructions were written by a fellow in Japan when they made this damn thing. They were probably translated by some gringo who was an expatriate American that couldn't get a job in this country. And then the Japanese guy probably translated him just to double check on him. You don't need these instructions. Not at all. Tear them up.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #36 - Aug 15th, 2007 at 5:13pm
 
I am redoing the copy as i write. For my better understanding of the dual os issue, let me rehash. When I first used ghost to copy, I took and old spare drive to test with, just in case there were problems. It had an os on it, don't recall what, but w 2000 is a possibility. I formatted to provide my idea of a clean slate. When I copied, because it was to allocated space , the disk wouldn't boot until you provided the fdisk trick. Then it booted normally. From then on, anytime I tried to make a new copy over the existing copy, there was the copied os in place,and although i deleted it in disk management to create unallocated space, is it possible that the memopry of the os remained to be recalled in the second copied drive? If so, could formatting make that memory unavailable, as could have happened with my first attempt? Never mind how it gets transferred back to the original drive, which is not supposed to be affected. Also, never mind that the second os is listed as winxp/2003, which I don't think is even a valid os anyway.
By the way, assuming we finally get correct reproducable results, is there a way to copy a laptop hard drive as we are trying to copy the desktop drive. Of course, there is only one drive bay in the laptop. Both my hard drive as well as my cdrom drive are removable in my laptop. I was thinking of using the cdrom slot for the slave, but don't know if the bios would work for this. Iwas also wondering if there is a docking staion to insert where the hard drive goes that would have 2 slots, one for master and one for slave.
Why all this trouble you ask?
The norton recovery disk boots to loading files, but then can't proceed due to bios incompatibilty. so I can't access the recovery environment to use the restore point on a new drive if the old drive fails. That's why I am so intent on getting the copy function to work.

Well I just completed the new copy, following your latest instruction to reboot after deleting the drive. I have check both drives as single masters, and the dual boot scenario is back.
Give me a break. This is almost funny now.
 
 
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Brian
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #37 - Aug 15th, 2007 at 5:28pm
 
Quote:
I have check both drives as single masters, and the dual boot scenario is back.

Well I'm stumped. I'll try it on my test computer.

Quote:
is there a way to copy a laptop hard drive as we are trying to copy the desktop drive. Of course, there is only one drive bay in the laptop.

You can clone your internal HD to a HD in an external USB enclosure. But I'm afraid it doesn't always work. Seems to be hardware dependent but it's worth a try.
 
 
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Brian
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #38 - Aug 15th, 2007 at 10:20pm
 
rleescott,

It's a Ghost 12 bug. I just performed a Copy my Hard Drive and saw the same boot menu as you saw. On both HDs.

It didn't happen with Ghost 9/10 and shouldn't happen with Ghost 12.
 
 
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John.
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #39 - Aug 15th, 2007 at 10:27pm
 
Brian wrote on Aug 15th, 2007 at 5:28pm:
You can clone your internal HD to a HD in an external USB enclosure. But I'm afraid it doesn't always work. Seems to be hardware dependent but it's worth a try.


Here is how I have successfully upgraded laptop harddrives myself using an 2.5 inch ide adapter and putting the laptop drive temporarily in a desktop:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1172172404/20#20
 

Ghost4me  Ghost 9, 10, 12, 14, 15.  Windows XP, Vista, Windows 7
 
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #40 - Aug 15th, 2007 at 10:36pm
 
Thanks John. I have one of those adaptors but I haven't tried the procedure.

Here's another thread about IBM laptop geometry.

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=182787
 
 
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #41 - Aug 15th, 2007 at 10:39pm
 
NightOwl wrote on Aug 14th, 2007 at 3:57pm:
Looks like Ghost 12 will allow you to create multiple instances of your OS, probably either on a second HDD like rleescott has done, or I'm betting you can do it on the same HDD if it's restored to unallocated space--just have to assign it a new independent drive letter and you have a duplicate OS that you can choose from during the opening boot!!!!

NightOwl,

That may be Symantec's reason.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #42 - Aug 15th, 2007 at 10:47pm
 
Brian wrote on Aug 15th, 2007 at 10:39pm:
NightOwl wrote on Aug 14th, 2007 at 3:57pm:
Looks like Ghost 12 will allow you to create multiple instances of your OS, probably either on a second HDD like rleescott has done, or I'm betting you can do it on the same HDD if it's restored to unallocated space--just have to assign it a new independent drive letter and you have a duplicate OS that you can choose from during the opening boot!!!!

NightOwl,
That may be Symantec's reason.


Ghost 12 (or any Ghost version) can be restored into as many partitions as you have room for. 

This is similar to leaving both drives connected after cloning, and then booting into XP.  The result in both cases tends to be corrupted XP registries, so I personally don't advise either approaches ever.
 

Ghost4me  Ghost 9, 10, 12, 14, 15.  Windows XP, Vista, Windows 7
 
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #43 - Aug 16th, 2007 at 9:04am
 
Thanks to all for the input. Let me summarize, and correct me if I'm wrong.
1)The reason the regular users of g12 have not commented on this bug before me is that everyone that tested the copy function used a brand new drive with no os in place?
2)Symantec thinks no one would ever copy to a used drive, so there would be no problem to address in the user guide.
3)Because the guide doesn't say copy to unallocated space, many are copying to allocated space, which won't boot until they discover the fdisk trick, and they stop exploring at that point. Perhaps they are formatting, or perhaps they are using a used drive that has been formatted and is now used for data storage, so no os is present. The few that remain become frustrated and try another program.
4)Since I formatted the slave drive before my first copy, and, if you recall, didn't have the dual boot problem, it is now time to repeat the copy process on the same drive after reformatting.
5)If this doesn't work, our revised user guide will include instuctions how to delete the 2nd os boot option in both drives, as if this is the way g12 is "supposed" to work. If this does work, and that's a big "if", it then becomes necessary to reformat before copying to anything but a new fresh drive.
What do you think?
 
 
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Re: Ghost 12 problems
Reply #44 - Aug 16th, 2007 at 9:33am
 
There is a lot to comment on regarding your last post, but first let me say that even though in your specific scenario there have been multiple problems, some of the issues are not technically Ghost problems but really Windows XP issues.  For example, when you first use a usb2 device (like a hard drive) or an ide device, XP "wants" to remember what drive letter it assigns to it.  That's for your benefit.  So that the next time you connect it, XP doesn't get confused and assign j: for something that was d: the last time.  That's where the clearing of the DiskID using the DOS fdisk or disk-wipe comes to play.

If you use a disk-wipe function from your hard drive manufacturer (or these other methods) then the signature of the disk drive is zeroed out.  Now XP thinks it is a brand new never used hard drive, and treats it as such.

If you format the drive yourself, then obviously XP now remembers that drive letter; remembers that you formatted it in a sense, which defeats what anyone thinks they wanted.  The unobvious fact is that by formatting a drive, you are causing XP to actually REMEMBER, which is the exact opposite effect that you would think you want.

Secondly, if you have a "data" partition Ghost backup (one that contains your documents, pictures, databases etc.) and not the operating system, a lot of the problems you faced would not apply.  You can copy into allocated space or unallocated space etc etc because of course you can fix up the drive letters later.  And none of it is affecting the integrity of XP operating system remembrances or registry.

Quote:
1)The reason the regular users of g12 have not commented on this bug before me is that everyone that tested the copy function used a brand new drive with no os in place?  

Many have commented on it before.  The usual fix is to wipe the disk first (or buy a new unused one).

Quote:
2)Symantec thinks no one would ever copy to a used drive, so there would be no problem to address in the user guide.

The Symantec user guide is woefully lacking.  A 10 page real world scenarios chapter would be a big help.  Symantec doesn't seem to ever discuss effects of partitions on the operating system.

Quote:
3)Because the guide doesn't say copy to unallocated space, many are copying to allocated space, which won't boot until they discover the fdisk trick, and they stop exploring at that point. Perhaps they are formatting, or perhaps they are using a used drive that has been formatted and is now used for data storage, so no os is present. The few that remain become frustrated and try another program.

I've seen that also.  However, same problem happens with any imaging program that doesn't clear the DiskID/signature field of the target disk.

Quote:
4)Since I formatted the slave drive before my first copy, and, if you recall, didn't have the dual boot problem, it is now time to repeat the copy process on the same drive after reformatting.

No.  You do NOT want to reformat, certainly not with XP.  Use DOS/Win98 fdisk or boot cd that Brian mentioned.  Or look for wipe-disk function from WD, Seagate, etc., or whichever applies to your brand.

Quote:
5)If this doesn't work, our revised user guide will include instructions how to delete the 2nd os boot option in both drives, as if this is the way g12 is "supposed" to work. If this does work, and that's a big "if", it then becomes necessary to reformat before copying to anything but a new fresh drive.


I'm not sure why you triggered the 2nd boot.ini options.  Did you use the XP Recovery Console to run commands such as fixboot, fixmbr, or bootcfg /rebuild?  Those commands scan the partitions and automatically modify your boot.ini.

Again, you do NOT want to reformat yourself using XP.  You can have XP delete the partitions of the new previously-used drive.  But then you still have to wipe it.
 

Ghost4me  Ghost 9, 10, 12, 14, 15.  Windows XP, Vista, Windows 7
 
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