Radified Community Forums - VPS + Server usage (Part 2)

Rad

Radministrator

Offline

Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California

Back to top

VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Feb 12^th, 2008 at 1:49pm

This thread is a continuation of this thread:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1201321547

MrMagoo wrote on Feb 11^th, 2008 at 10:54pm:

This thread has over 700 views already. Maybe all the extra CPU usage is coming from this thread about how to deal with the CPU usage. That would be great.

Kinda funny .. uh, but maybe not.

Started new thread .. to continue the discussion here.

IP Logged

Rad

Radministrator

Offline

Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California

Back to top

Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #1 - Feb 12^th, 2008 at 1:51pm

Here's what I wrote to LP sppt today:

Quote:

Hi.

Few days ago, I was told account usage had returned to normal (<1% CPU), and LP was looking to move me back to the production server. Now I'm being told my usage doesn't even qualify for VPS .. that I need to upgrade to a dedicated server.

While increased traffic is always good, I can see no evidence of such a dramatic increase (more than 10-fold) in traffic on my end.

On the contrary, traffic has continued to DEcrease .. since the highs we saw back in June (when server usage was not a problem) .. when we had TRIPLE the forum traffic we do now.

As you also know, I do not have access to your reporting module, so I cannot verify your numbers for myself.

And the fact that money is involved means LP is not without incentive to pad the numbers (and claim I need more robust hosting, which means more money for LP).

Add to this that a recent message saw a sppt person making deals that involve offering pricing deals (see msg from feb 12, at 0423 AM), and you can see why I'm suspicious. Normally, sppt ppl take care of technical support, while Sales/Billing ppl deal with the financial aspect.

Again, I am looking for *any* sign of increase traffic, but can find none.

Can you explain why your numbers indicate a 10-fold increase of resource usage from just a few days ago? .. when my observed traffic numbers here remain relatively constant, and are actually *down* (dramatically) from their highs seen back in June?

I really like Lunarpages, and have been pimping your services since signing on 2 years ago .. including lots of affilate links into my pags .. but now it seems as if you're telling me I need to find hosting elsewhere.

I've moved the site before .. to a new host .. so I know the drill .. but would rather stay with LP .. if possible. It just seems like you're telling me this is not possible.

I'm hoping there is some mix up. Reviewing this ticket, you can see I was told earlier that PHP was my top process, when I don't use PHP. Then I was told an ICON (tiny graphic) was also one of top processes .. which made no sense.

I am consulting with friends, who (like you) administrate Linux servers as part of their day job. They tell me something doesn't add up.

Do you have any explanations?

IP Logged

Rad

Radministrator

Offline

Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California

Back to top

Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #2 - Feb 12^th, 2008 at 2:18pm

Here's another oddity. This is the most recent usage report, received with-in the hour.

Quote:

Please note that the acceptable usage range for shuttle and voyager plans is 1.0% average %CPU or less, 1.0% average %Memory or less, .5% mysql or less and Top Processes below 20%.

radified.com
cpu% 9.05
mem% 1.58
sql processes 0.0
Top Process %CPU 141 /usr/bin/peArl -- YaBB.pl
Top Process %CPU 99.5 /usr/bin/peArl -- YaBB.pl
Top Process %CPU 82.8 /usr/bin/peArl -- YaBB.pl

Notice anything odd? Take a look at the first "Top Process %CPU" listed. It says "141". But you can't have more than "100" percent of anything. That's mathematically impossible.

The second "Top Process" listed only confirms this, as it's listed as "99.5" (%). So you can see why I continue to be suspicious of the numbers they give me.

IP Logged

MrMagoo

Übermensch

Offline

Resident Linux Guru

Posts: 1026
Phoenix, AZ (USA)

Back to top

Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #3 - Feb 12^th, 2008 at 4:02pm

I'm not sure where they are getting their numbers for top processes, so I'm not sure how it can be over 100. Even 99.5 sounds high because that would mean you are monopolizing this server. So, I doubt it is a true percent, and they seem to indicate that it is not in their earlier response to you:

Quote:

As for the Top Process list showing the same process 3 times... WHM simply shows the 3 most active processes on your account. They are the same because in 3 separate instances the YaBB.pl script was the most active process for your account.

These wouldn't have been the same process (same PID) but rather multiple instances of the script being run, though not necessarily at the same time. The "Top Process" area is less important in determining the resource usage of your account though they can help point you in the direction of what may be consuming the most resources on your account.

They are probably using at least a dual core server, if not a dual core dual processor (4 total cores), so that may explan it somewhat, but one process still shouldn't be able to go over 100% of one processor. I would like to hear their explanation as to how you went from under 1% to over 10% with no obvious jump in visitors to your site... That's odd for sure.

Could the backups you did have anything to do with it?

IP Logged

Rad

Radministrator

Offline

Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California

Back to top

	Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2) Reply #4 - Feb 12^th, 2008 at 4:07pm Haven't done any back-up since the upgrade to Y2.2
	IP Logged

Rad

Radministrator

Offline

Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California

Back to top

Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #5 - Feb 12^th, 2008 at 5:49pm

Regarding VPS .. I found these guys:

http://www.servint.net/index.php

found them here: http://whreviews.com/honest-hosts.htm

VPS is all they do. Just starting to research, but so far I like what I see, especially:

• $0 Setup
• founded in 1995
• won't "nickel and dime" you on support services
• FREE - Full daily backup, even if you are over your disk allowance
• 4 IP Addresses
• U320 SCSI HD in Hardware RAID 10

More:
• $49 Monthly
• located in Virgina
• 1 GB Burst RAM
• 256 MB Guaranteed RAM
• Unlimited Domains
• CentOS 4 Operating System

IP Logged

MrMagoo

Übermensch

Offline

Resident Linux Guru

Posts: 1026
Phoenix, AZ (USA)

Back to top

Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #6 - Feb 12^th, 2008 at 7:03pm

Wow, I like them a lot better than LP for VPS. Managed Hosting takes care of the monitoring aspects I was worried about. They are also serious about protecting your data - "Full daily backups" and RAID10. RAID10 (or RAID 1+0) uses RAID 1 for redundancy and then stripes (RAID 0) across multiple RAID 1 arrays for better performance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

You don't really need 4 IP's at this point, but it might come in handy some day. These guys look like they are worth the $4 difference between them and LP.

IP Logged

Rad

Radministrator

Offline

Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California

Back to top

	Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2) Reply #7 - Feb 12^th, 2008 at 7:32pm Yeah, even the overages they change for bandwidth and extra IPs are roughly a third of that I've seen at other hosts. (Hate being nickel-n-dimed.) They just have a good 'feel' to them. And I like that VPS/dedicated is all they do. Anytime you specialize, you're bound to excel in that area.
	IP Logged

Rad.Test

Technoluster

Offline

Rad's non-Admin test-profile
in Firefox

Posts: 108

Back to top

	Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2) Reply #8 - Feb 12^th, 2008 at 9:53pm And did you notice NOWHERE do they even mention CPU usage?
	IP Logged

NightOwl

Radministrator

Offline

"I tought I saw a puddy
tat..."

Posts: 5826
Olympia, WA--Puget Sound--USA

Back to top

Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #9 - Feb 13^th, 2008 at 12:09am

Rad

Before you jump to more expensive VPS--maybe you should make sure that Lunarpages isn't jerking you around. You might do fine on a different host with a shared server as you have done for a long time up to now.

Seems strange though--you'd think Lunarpages would want to host a successful site--gives them exposure to other potential clients.

Ghost4me has noted that the forum has been slow recently--I've been noting that also--I suspect you are now on a server that is being over-loaded with more *bad-boys* so your performance is taking a hit from the other over-usage that Lunarpages is not controlling!

Have you posted anything at the YaBB forum asking where folks who are using that forum software are being hosted--they must be finding hosting sites that allow the use of the *flat text based* forum software--what are their experiences?!

____________________________________________________________________________________________

No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are Wink

!

IP Logged

Rad

Radministrator

Offline

Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California

Back to top

	Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2) Reply #10 - Feb 13^th, 2008 at 2:12am Hmmm. I could check out Dreamhost first, or one of the others .. to see if we raise flags with them. DH touts themselves as the best in Shared hosting. I am downloading a back-up copy of the site right now, just in case.
	IP Logged

Rad

Radministrator

Offline

Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California

Back to top

Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #11 - Feb 15^th, 2008 at 4:46pm

As you may know, I have contacted Lunarpages regarding an upgrade to VPS, but they inform me our server usage EXCEEDS their criteria for VPS, and that I would need to upgrade to a DEDICATED server.

So .. I have been contacting other hosts, to inquire about their VPS accounts. Here is the response from ServInt, which I really like, especially cuz VPS is all they do, and they've been hosting VPS accts for a long time. They seem very professional. You may find their response interesting. (I did.) See here (Q&A format):

Q1. Do you recommend cPanel or Plesk? And why? Have you heard of stability problems with cPanel? I am familiar with cPanel but other VPS's seem to prefer Plesk.

Quote:

A1. Our engineers strongly encourage clients to use cPanel/WHM. The first reason is that cPanel/WHM is updated more frequently than Plesk. This is due partly to the fact that cPanel/WHM has a LARGER USER BASE. Bugs and exploits are therefore identified and resolved more quickly.

The core packages for Plesk (PHP, MySQL, etc.) are not easily upgradeable. In fact, upgrading Plesk's add-on software tends to break things. Whereas, cPanel/WHM has an automated update tool that allows you to select your updates from a variety of update trees. This allows you to handle your updates manually, or automatically as new updates become available.

Reality of the situation is that no control panel software is perfect. In fact, most control panel software is relatively buggy and poorly programmed. Of the available control panel platforms on the market today, we feel the cPanel/WHM is the most complete, well written and supported.

I should also mention that end users, hosting companies, and cPanel's Support Staff use cPanel's forums heavily. There is a wealth of information that can be found there, whereas Plesk's forums are not nearly as populated or verbose. Having complete and updated information about bugs, exploits, and third-party software issues can be very helpful for administrating your VPS Account.

Q2. My current host focuses on CPU usage, but you don't even mention it in your description of account allocation. (You mention RAM instead). Can you explain?

Quote:

A2. Guaranteed and burstable CPU resources are allocated to every VPS Account. However, publishing the actual amount of resources is difficult because they vary from server to server. We dynamically balance CPU resources for optimal performance. So, a VPS Host Server with 25 Virtual Environments (VEs), would have different guarantees than one with 20.

However, I should mention that Virtuozzo-based VPS Packages do not place a cap on maximum CPU usage, which might explain why your current host seems to be fixating on your processor usage. Overloading the CPU resource can have a negative impact on every account on a VPS server. So, it is likely that you current host is trying to safeguard against that.

For the most part, we find that it is typically not a problem because we do not over-saturate our VPS Host Servers, but you could potentially be asked to consider an upgrade if you processor usage is excessive for your specific VPS package.

Q3. Do you limit the number of accounts on each VPS? If so, what are the limits?

Quote:

A3. You are welcome to create as many accounts as you desire on your VPS. Of course, there is a logical level of available resources. So, if you get to a point where you have hundreds of sites on your account and it starts causing RAM/CPU failures, that is an indicator you may have too many sites on your account for your package. At which point, upgrading to a higher package would be in order.

Q4. Are you saying I can *call* someone there 24/7 .. a real/live sppt person?

Quote:

A4. Yes! Our Network Operations Center (NOC) staff is on-site 24x7 and available via phone, support ticket, or E-mail. I think you will be very pleased with their responsiveness and the quality of the support they provide. If there is one thing ServInt is well known for, it's the support we provide.

Q5. What do you need, money-wise, to get the ball rolling?

Quote:

A5. All that's required to get a VPS setup is an order form submission and an initial payment for the first month of service. The order form can be accessed by clicking the "order" link below the package description on our VPS product page. At which point, you will have the option of paying by Credit Card, PayPal, Check, Money Order, Check, etc. Credit Card tends to be that method that gets the account setup the fastest, since payment is able to be processed immediately. PayPal is also relatively quick, whereas, checks take a while to clear the bank.

Q6. Do you have a guide on converting a site to another host? I've done it before, but not frequently enough to have a good grasp on it. In other words, would I need to re-config all email accts, MySQL databases, and my subdomains at your server?

Quote:

A6. Once your account is setup, you will be granted access to our Customer VPS Forums. In there you will find a number of "how to's" with step-by-step instructions on how to accomplish server-to-server transfers using cPanel/WHM or Plesk. Additionally, if you have any questions about the process, you are always welcome to contact our support team. They will be more than happy to walk you through the process.

Hope this helps with your upcoming hosting decision. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance. Otherwise, you are welcome to proceed with your order whenever you like.

Best Regards,
Devon

Any other questions you can think of? The only negative I can think of is that they are not here on the West coast .. but that is minor.

IP Logged

MrMagoo

Übermensch

Offline

Resident Linux Guru

Posts: 1026
Phoenix, AZ (USA)

Back to top

Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #12 - Feb 15^th, 2008 at 5:32pm

Rad wrote on Feb 15^th, 2008 at 4:46pm:

Any other questions you can think of? The only negative I can think of is that they are not here on the West coast .. but that is minor.

LOL. Some would see that as a positive. The only possible negative I can think of is response time for you and others on the west coast. Even that might not be as much of an issue as you think. Most of the bigger ISP's (like Cox and Comcast) have their own backbone these days and traffic moves around the country fairly quickly before getting dropped onto the Internet. The only other issue would be the time difference, but I don't see that as a problem since they are staffed 24x7.

I can't think of any other concerns right now.

IP Logged

Rad

Radministrator

Offline

Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California

Back to top

Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #13 - Feb 15^th, 2008 at 7:48pm

Most of the tim, for me, response times up to LA seem instaneous. I've seen teen-pings.

What is typical coast-to-route trace time? I'm guessing 60. Got curious. Here's a trace to their home site.

Quote:

NeoTrace Version 3.25 Trace Results
Target: www.servint.net
Date: 2/15/2008 (Friday), 5:39:04 PM
Nodes: 9

Node Data
Node Net Reg IP Address Location Node Name
1 Anaheim
2 1 - Unknown
3 2 1 Irvine
4 3 1 67.114.50.1 Irvine
5 4 1 151.164.43.141 Irvine bb1-g4-0.irvnca.sbcglobal.net
6 4 1 151.164.191.75 Los Angeles ex2-p14-0.eqlaca.sbcglobal.net
7 4 1 151.164.249.18 Los Angeles asn3491-pccwbtn.eqlaca.sbcglobal.net
8 5 2 63.218.83.2 WASHINGTON D.C. servint.ge5-7.br01.wdc02.pccwbtn.net
9 6 3 209.50.226.164 Arlington sm-www.servint.net

Packet Data
Node High Low Avg Tot Lost
1 0 0 0 1 0
2 8 8 8 1 0
3 16 16 16 1 0
4 16 16 16 1 0
5 35 35 35 1 0
6 16 16 16 1 0
7 16 16 16 1 0
8 89 89 89 1 0
9 88 88 88 1 0

Network Data
Network id#: 5

OrgName: Beyond The Network America, Inc.
OrgID: BNA-42
Address: 450 Springpark PL
Address: Suite 100
City: Herdon
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20170
Country: US

Network id#: 6

OrgName: ServInt Corp.
OrgID: SRVN
Address: 6861 Elm Street
Address: Suite 4-E
City: McLean
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 22101
Country: US

Registrant Data
Registrant id#: 2
Registrant:
PCCW-HKT DataCom Services Limited
39/F PCCW Tower, Taikoo Place
979 King's Rd
Quarry Bay, Hong Kong 0
HK

Registrant id#: 3
Registrant:
ServInt Corporation
6861 Elm Street
Suite 4B
McLean, VA 22101
US
_____
NeoTrace Copyright ©1997-2001 NeoWorkz

IP Logged

MrMagoo

Übermensch

Offline

Resident Linux Guru

Posts: 1026
Phoenix, AZ (USA)

Back to top

Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #14 - Feb 15^th, 2008 at 8:36pm

Anything under 200 is good enough to run any protocol under the sun (including voice applications.) You should be able to get coast to coast in under 120 most days. It jumps to 300+ once you go trans-oceanic usually.

Of course it depends heavily on your ISP's architecture. My numbers are based on cable, cuz that's what I know best. FIOS, Cable, and DSL are the fastest (in that order, but the differences are small.) Then dial-up and cellular. The worst satellite. Network latency of 500ms or more is not uncommon for users on satellite, even for domestic sites.

IP Logged

	Welcome, Guest. Please Login