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VPS + Server usage (Part 2) (Read 28794 times)
Rad
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #15 - Feb 15th, 2008 at 10:52pm
 
The above trace appeared as straight line on map-view. Sometimes traces bounce all around country .. b4 finding their destination. Not this one. So I'm guessing 90 is good as it's gonna get.

I have DSL here. Tech just came out yesterday .. to replace section of line that was corroded. Said he wants to come back and replace another section from pole to house, which "has interference". Tho I must say, being my first time on DSL, I'm impressed. (Normally I use cable.)

Cable, if I'm not mistaken, excels on the DOWNload speeds, where DSL has solid UP speeds (depending on which plan you have). Running a site involves lots of uploading.

 
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #16 - Feb 15th, 2008 at 11:00pm
 
I found it interesting that they close their forums to non-ServInt ccustomers. Not sure what I think of that. First impression is it strikes me as odd.

http://forums.servint.net/

Quote:
Current forum post count:: 39,956
Current registered users:: 3674

They have ~ the same post count as Radifed, and same # of users b4 I deleted a few thousand prior to the upgrade to Y2.2.

Wonder what forum software they use.  Questioning

I'd also like to check out some sites they host .. to check response times for myself.
 
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #17 - Feb 15th, 2008 at 11:27pm
 
I reduced my cell-phone plan from 900 mins/month to 450 (notta big talker), and my 24 Hour Fitness plan .. from all clubs/any time to 1 club, 4-days/week (since I don't even go 4 times a week) .. to help pay for VPS.

Each of those saves me $20/month (painlessly) .. or $40 total, which is the difference between current Shared plan ($10/month) and VPS ($50).

Throttle back on a few triple espresso's each week, and I'll come out ahead. =)
 
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #18 - Feb 16th, 2008 at 1:50am
 
Here's another trace, taken shortly b4 midnight .. so it's probably as good as I'm gonna see, while most of the country is asleep. Still 85ms.

Quote:
NeoTrace Trace  Version 3.25  Results
Target: www.servint.net
Date: 2/15/2008 (Friday), 11:47:02 PM
Nodes: 9

Node Data
Node Net Reg IP Address      Location            Node Name
  1   -   -                         Anaheim
  2   1   - 172.16.0.1      Unknown            
  3   2   1 75.31.75.254    Irvine              
  4   3   1 67.114.50.1     Irvine              
  5   4   1 151.164.43.141  Irvine              bb1-g4-0.irvnca.sbcglobal.net
  6   4   1 151.164.191.75  Los Angeles         ex2-p14-0.eqlaca.sbcglobal.net
  7   4   1 151.164.249.18  Los Angeles         asn3491-pccwbtn.eqlaca.sbcglobal.net
  8   5   2 63.218.83.2     WASHINGTON D.C.     servint.ge5-7.br01.wdc02.pccwbtn.net
  9   6   3 209.50.226.164  Arlington           sm-www.servint.net

Packet Data
Node High Low  Avg  Tot  Lost
  1    0    0    0    1    0
  2    4    4    4    1    0
  3   15   15   15    1    0
  4   17   17   17    1    0
  5   17   17   17    1    0
  6   19   19   19    1    0
  7   17   17   17    1    0
  8   85   85   85    1    0
  9   85   85   85    1    0

Network Data
Network id#: 6

OrgName:    ServInt Corp.
OrgID:      SRVN
Address:    6861 Elm Street
Address:    Suite 4-E
City:       McLean
StateProv:  VA
PostalCode: 22101
Country:    US

Registrant Data
Registrant id#: 1
Registrant:
SBC Internet Services, Inc
  1701 Alma dr
  Plano, TX 75075
  US

Registrant id#: 2
Registrant:
PCCW-HKT DataCom Services Limited
  39/F PCCW Tower, Taikoo Place
  979 King's Rd
  Quarry Bay, Hong Kong 0
  HK

Registrant id#: 3
Registrant:
ServInt Corporation
  6861 Elm Street
  Suite 4B
  McLean, VA 22101
  US
_____
NeoTrace Copyright ©1997-2001 NeoWorx Inc
 
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MrMagoo
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #19 - Feb 16th, 2008 at 3:22am
 
Rad wrote on Feb 15th, 2008 at 10:52pm:
Cable, if I'm not mistaken, excels on the DOWNload speeds, where DSL has solid UP speeds (depending on which plan you have). Running a site involves lots of uploading.

Cable has a lot more download bandwidth available in the downstream due to RF interference in the upstream direction.  The advantage of cable is that it is capable of much higher speeds and longer distances.  DSL isn't subject to the same upstream interference, so they can easily sell more symmetrical speeds. 

Cable's speeds are faster overall, but DSL does often have slightly faster uploads.  Cable usually has around 512kb/s upload on faster residential plans, while DSL has 768kb/s or even 1.5mb/s.  Cable download is the fun part - often 10mb or more in larger cities, while DSL usually provides around 1.5mb/s of download.  Since most people do far more downloading than uploading, it doesn't hurt that the upload is smaller with cable.  As you mention, web site administration is one instance where DSL might have an advantage with it's faster upload.

There have been tests of a system to eliminate cross-talk the twisted pair cables that DSL runs on, which could increase its speeds significantly.  In the cable world, DOCSIS 3.0 promises multiple channels bundled together to allow over 100mb/s download.

^^^^^Magoo's micro-guide to residential internet service^^^^^^
 
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #20 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 1:06pm
 
Two questions:

1. Where do I begin on the road to learning how to admin my own VPS server? I don't even know where to start. (But *you* do.)

2. What do you think of this VPS host?

http://vpslink.com/vps-hosting/

They have several plans that are less expensive than ServInt's $50 minimum.

My last complete site back-up was 1.15 gigs .. compressed *.tar.gz. Add reporting stats to that and I'd guess 2.5 gigs would do us fine .. for a while, anyway.

I noticed they don't mention CPU usage either. I'll try to find out what our memory req'ments are right now. I'd guess 1% of say, 8 gigs .. would be somewhere around 80 MBs. If we're using up to 1.6% (as they claim) .. that would be 128 MBs. But this is merely a guesstimate. If it had 12 gigs RAM, our number would be 192 MB.
 
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #21 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 2:11pm
 
I like that host.  They give you a lot for the price - looks like you can get the same size VPS as the last company you showed me for almost $20 cheaper if you sign up for a year.  Looks like one of the cheaper hosts you have considered.  They seem like they know what they are doing, and give you a lot of control over the server.  It's neat that they let you pick you OS.  It's fun to see Slackware listed - that's an interesting option.  Also, I've never seen a host allow the customer to choose between OpenVZ and Xen - usually the host just picks one and that's what all customers get.

The only thing is that it is completely unmanaged, which is probably why it is so cheap.  You (or I) would have to do the monitoring and all troubleshooting.  They don't even mention doing any kind of backup for you, so we'd have to do it ourselves (although they do have protections against drive failures.)  It's not a problem, I can do the monitoring and the backup - but I do like the idea that the other host you were considering would do a full daily backup.

The best way I can think of to get ready to admin your own VPS would be to do a trial run at home.  Take an old computer laying around.  Pretty much anything you have laying around should do - like 500MHz proc, 256 RAM, 20GB HD or better.  If you don't have anything, you could ask around.  Something like that won't run widows very well anymore, so its probably collecting dust at a friends house and I find they are often glad to give it to you to have it off their hands.  Otherwise you can sometimes find one cheap at a pawn shop.  Dual-booting your regular computer is an option, but not the best option since you are going to want to be able to research and test while working on the server and honing your skills.

Once you have a computer to use as a server, install Linux but don't install a GUI desktop.  I find that a lot of people who install the GUI find it too tempting to use, so they never really learn their way around the command line, which is important for admining a server.  Installing a control panel is allowed since many hosts provide them, but there aren't very many that are open source (RaqDevil is the only one I know of.)  Then, take one of your backup copies of your web site and try to get it running.  Configure Apache and Perl and see if you can pull up in your guides and forum in a web browser.  You'll need MySQL to get the blog to work.  If you can get it working at home, you shouldn't have any issues doing it on someone else's server.

My guide is the best I know of to learn Linux generally.  Many other much better guides have more detailed information for specific tasks on specific distributions.  I purposely avoided being too specific because I wanted to enable the reader to make their own choices about how to do things, although I admit I am still trying to balance that with providing enough information to get them off the ground.  Now that I think about it, I think I'll add a page to my guide listing essential skills for Linux users with links to tutorials on each skill.

I would suggest CentOS if you specifically want to learn how to admin a web server.  Lots of hosts use either CentOS, RedHat, or Fedora, and its a great system for a server.  It will also include options to install Apache, Perl, and MySQL during the system installation, saving you the trouble of learning how to install them afterward (at least right away.)

Be prepared that learning Linux is a little frustrating for experinced Windows users because you will have to work at doing things that should be very simple for a while.  For example, editing a text file in Windows probably takes you 2 seconds with Notepad, while in Linux you will have to find a text editor and learn how to use it, so it could take more like 30 mins.  It feels very frustrating (I think) to take 30 minutes on something you feel like should take you 2 seconds (although less proficient Windows users seem less frustrated because they don't know it should be such an easy task.)  After you do it a few times in Linux, you'll be able to do it just as fast as in Windows and the frustration will pass.  You just have to get over the hump.
 
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #22 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 4:31pm
 
Got yer email. Thanks for offering to hold my hand.

So you indicate the best place to start learning VPS admin is by learning Linux. That makes sense. And practicing at home, where you can't hurt anything .. that makes sense, too.

The reason I inquired was cuz I read a post at YaBB forums and didn't understand what the guy was saying.

http://www.yabbforum.com/community/YaBB.pl?num=1200435453/5#5

Notta good feeling. Hence my query.
 
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #23 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 10:18pm
 
Still learning about VPS. Seems there are both Managed and unManaged VPS accts:

http://forums.spry.com/showthread.php?t=1312

For 1st-timers like me, they recommend a managed acct, tho they tend to be significantly more expensive:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpost.php?p=4645612&postcount=2

One guide I read listed "same geographical area" as user base as #1 host selection criteria.

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=621002

VPSlink is located up in Seattle. They are unmanaged. Their parent co. is Spry:

http://www.spry.com/ which has mangaged VPS:

http://www.spry.com/vps-hosting/ Spry ranks 7 in Google's page rank, so they are serious player. ServInt ranks 6, as does VPSlink. Spry has datacenter operations in LA also (I think, not positive):

http://www.spry.com/network-datacenter/

This just in from LP

Quote:
Hello
On stabilization server arneb (you are right now on this server) we have : Mem: 4Gb

On production server kwan: 8Gb of memory

This would suggest we're using 4 x 1.6 = 64 MB RAM. Certainly no more than 128.

Lots of learning going on. Great post on moving the site here:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpost.php?p=4878176&postcount=18
 
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #24 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 10:36pm
 
Here is Spry cPanel-based Managed VPS:

http://www.spry.com/cpanel-vps/

Same price as ServInt. (Actually, $45 if I pay for 3 months). What do you think? I have experience with cPanel, so am comfortable.

They have CentOS 5, but only PHP 4.x and MySQL 4.x which I heard support for v4.x is being dropped, now that v6 is coming .. I would prefer PHP 5.x and especially MySQL 5.x

Quote:
Backups.

Full nightly backups are included with all VPS plans. Not only do we backup your website, we backup your entire operating system.

Quote:
Instant-on setup!

Need your account setup immediately? Spry's instant-on provisioning system will have your account up within an hour in most cases. Please be sure to fill out all billing information correctly to ensure rapid processing.

Quote:
Upgradeability.

All of Spry's plans can grow with you. Whether you're ready for the next size of VPS or ready for Managed Dedicated hosting, upgrades are quick and easy. No more waiting days for DNS to propogate, Spry can upgrade your account and move all your IPs in a matter of minutes.

A similar UNmanaged plan at VPSlink would cost $25, and I couldprobably get by with their $15 Plan #2, which offers 5 gigs of disk space + 128 MB RAM .. but cPanel/WHM is not supported in any plan under/below their Link-4 ($40/mo), which has way more than I need. (And cPanel license may be extra here, not sure.)

http://vpslink.com/vps-hosting/

For bandwidth, we use ~ a gig a day. Roughly. Easily less than 2.
 
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #25 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 11:23pm
 
Then, for UNmanaged, they have this LAMP option:

http://vpslink.com/lamp-vps/

So many options. My dang head is spinning.
 
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #26 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 11:40pm
 
Here's another which seems interesting, fully managed, $50/month, located in Chicago:

http://www.wiredtree.com/managedvps/features.php

http://www.wiredtree.com/ournetwork/datacenter.php

They have both PHP 5 and MySQL 5. I'm interested.
 
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #27 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 4:32am
 
Rad wrote on Feb 17th, 2008 at 10:18pm:
This would suggest we're using 4 x 1.6 = 64 MB RAM. Certainly no more than 128.

Correct, but on a VPS plan I think you also have to include the applications you are running.  On a shared server, they don't count Apache and Perl and MySQL against  your memory limits since everyone is using the same one.

I could set up a test server to see how much memory we would need.  You might be ok with 128, but 256 might be better.

As far as MySQL and PHP versions, I'm assuming we could install any version we want.  Based on what LP said, they will give you full access to the command line, so I could install any version of any software.  Some hosts have restrictions, and others install a basic version for you and you can do what you want with it (like upgrade.)
 
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #28 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 9:50am
 
MrMagoo wrote on Feb 18th, 2008 at 4:32am:
so I could install any version of any software.

This made me smile out loud. Smiley
 
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Re: VPS + Server usage (Part 2)
Reply #29 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 10:37am
 
Here's an article I found particularly interesting:

http://asymptomatic.net/2008/02/01/2699/how-to-choose-a-good-web-host

..especially these quotes:

Quote:
Beware when choosing a control panel. Some panels lock you in to certain configurations of software. For example, updating PHP on a server that runs Plesk can be tricky and often ends in violence. CPanel servers often run old versions of Apache, and can't support subversion hosting. Be aware that using a control panel may limit your ability to configure your server manually later.

I think you were alluding to this earlier.

Quote:
As far as shared hosting, I've come to the conclusion that the big guys are the love/hate of the hosting world. They work great up until they don't. When they stop working great, it's time to move up to a VPS.

My experience, precisely.

Quote:
If everyone on the server used their full allotment of space, the hosting company would go under trying to buy adequate storage to keep up. More likely, they'd just shut your site down citing an ambiguous violation of their terms of service. Happens all the time. Beware!

Might be worth mentioning that I have *tons* of Webalizer stats on the server .. which consume far more disk space than the site itself. Add to that a few back-ups, each 1-gig, and it makes you wonder.

Just deleted the Webalizer stats and the back-ups, after downloading.

But if they just wanted me off Shared cuz I was using too much SPACE (supposed to get 1,500 Gigs), I don't think they'd press for a DEDICATED server. That doesn't make sense.

But it would be funny if our "resource usage" suddenly (magically) dropped back below the "allowable" levels .. after I delete all those files.
 
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