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Ghost 11/Ghost Solution Suite 2.0 and Dell GX240... Machines Freezing Up (Read 6298 times)
Matthew Reed
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Ghost 11/Ghost Solution Suite 2.0 and Dell GX240... Machines Freezing Up
Jun 16th, 2008 at 2:10pm
 
Hi,
   This is my first post... I just wanted to run this by you guys. I'm a lab manager and we've been toying with GSS for a while and just started to run across this error.

   We've got four different labs and three vintages of machines, the 240s are our oldest and make up two of our labs. In one of the labs, I am able to Ghost fine, locally with a boot CD and multicast with boost a CD. Then, last Thursday setting up for a class in the other 240 lab, we ran across this problem of machines in there locking up when trying to Ghost. I noticed before the error file message came up, we'd lose USB power. We switched to PS2 keyboards, same thing. Then, testing out other machines, they'd freeze shortly after booting, not even getting into actually Ghosting the discs.

   Now, the kicker is, the machines run Windows fine... so, they're functional... as long as we're not booting into Ghost. I'm guessing some DOS-based driver is choking, but as to what, I've got no clue right now.

   We've got removable HDDs, so I can take the drives to the other lab and Ghost them fine, but when I come back down to this one, no dice. We're going to be able to inch along for a while Ghosting after hours, but I'd definitely like to get to the bottom of what's going on.

   Any help, hints, or clues would be greatly appreciated... I know I probably left out important information that I missed, if so, please let me know and I'll get it.

Thanks for your time.


 
 
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Nigel Bree
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Re: Ghost 11/Ghost Solution Suite 2.0 and Dell GX240... Machines Freezing Up
Reply #1 - Jun 16th, 2008 at 2:59pm
 
I don't think anything like that has been reported to us formally with the GX240  but one of the things to watch out for with the Optiplex line is that their primary design goal, right from the ground up, is to meet a manufacturing cost limit. So, there are two probable causes.

One possibility is that there's a problem in the system BIOS which is affecting things when you CD boot; it's hard to prove, and if that is the case it's not really fixable easily unless there happens to be a firmware update.  The other common problem which many of the Optiplex models have is that to save a cent or two in manufacture, they don't have controllable IRQ assignments.

The GX270's, for instance (more of which exist than probably any other model) have the IRQ lines for the SATA controller and the Network Interface card literally physically wired together. In most PCs, manufacturers have several programmable arrangements which map the PCI-bus IRQ lines down into the legacy PC-AT PICs, because classic DOS drivers have always assumed that one IRQ = one device (IBM designed a system for breaking this assumption with in the Micro Channel design for the PS/2, years before PCI took the possibility mainstream, but it wasn't for many years later that this IRQ sharing became important in the DOS world). The GX270 doesn't.

The problem here is that the initial reference drivers for the hardware Dell integrated (the SATA host adapter and a Broadcom NIC) were written by the device manufacturers without contemplating the need for IRQ sharing; Dell then made the two devices incompatible when used with the manufacturer drivers simultaneous by just wiring them together and not making them able to be programmably revectored (manufacturing cost limit).

Resolving this was not fun. GX270's with SATA drives would run like molasses when GhostCasting, because of the IRQ conflict, and for a long time no drivers were available for the NIC with the necessary magic to work around this problem, which was basically unique to the Dells and not any other chipset licensee (Broadcom's standard drivers now do, and I have to give Broadcom props generally for their driver availability).

GX745s manufactured in the US region had a similar problem (the motherboard sound shared a hardwired IRQ and the BIOS left the motherboard sound generating IRQs constantly on some GX745s), and it's possible that the GX240 has yet another instance of this style of defect.

Now, in general for PXE-bootable machines the UNDI network driver built into the BIOS tends to be a motherboard-specific driver rather than a generic one for the NIC chipset, and so if you're using an NDIS or packet driver switching to UNDI (or vice versa, in some cases) is one thing to try, and in one of the UNDI templates you have the option of using a tool called IRQCFG.EXE

This little doodad (which you can find in the Ghost Boot Wizard driver library) can as discussed here report on some of these conflicts, and if the hardware doesn't support unsticking them it'll say so.

[ If the IRQ conflict can be resolved by reprogramming the IRQ mapping from the BIOS default, then it can be loaded as a device driver instead of run as an app and it'll replumb things, which is what the UNDI (irqcfg) choice of template does. ]

The other thing you can also try if you really want to use a boot CD is to create a WinPE environment with the WAIK and use the Windows PE version of Ghost, Ghost32.exe; it's not ideal but when you have hardware that isn't really DOS-compatible it's the last resort.
 
 
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El_Pescador
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Re: Ghost 11/Ghost Solution Suite 2.0 and Dell GX240... Machines Freezing Up
Reply #2 - Jun 16th, 2008 at 6:47pm
 
When trying to replace an IDE 40GB Seagate HDD in a Dell Optiplex GX270 Small Desktop PC with a SATA II 200GB Seagate HDD, I was thoroughly stymied until I upgraded the proprietary Dell BIOS from Version 4 to Version 6.  Once done, no more problems.

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Nigel Bree
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Re: Ghost 11/Ghost Solution Suite 2.0 and Dell GX240... Machines Freezing Up
Reply #3 - Jun 16th, 2008 at 8:39pm
 
El_Pescador wrote on Jun 16th, 2008 at 6:47pm:
Once done, no more problems

Heh. Considering the number of problems that particular model has, consider yourself lucky.

To give Dell their due though, their Precision-branded gear really is the mirror image of the Optiplex line - the (early build, still on BIOS rev A01) Precision M90 I use is, aside from weighing a shoulder-wrenching amount for a notebook, absolutely a mighty piece of gear. It's got every bell and whistle and every one of them works, and works well; no BIOS problems, zero incompatibilities with Ghost in DOS, the BIOS boots from all manner of devices at full USB 2.0 speed, it does everything and does it fast and does it well.

Of course it cost an eye-watering amount (my manager at the time had brought it for himself, but then IT told him it wasn't on the approved list and he wasn't allowed to use it on their network so ... hello, developer machine) but I have no hesitation in saying that those extra dollars really were buying gear of a matching level of quality.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 11/Ghost Solution Suite 2.0 and Dell GX240... Machines Freezing Up
Reply #4 - Jun 26th, 2008 at 1:40pm
 
I have a major problem when ghosting labs of GX 270's, my method is an boot cd to ghost 11.0.1 and dump the image from or to an external usb HD. I get speeds of 80-100 MB/min and it takes hours to make or dump an image. I have updated the bios to A07 and can not find a new NIC driver as suggested....any ideas?



Resolving this was not fun. GX270's with SATA drives would run like molasses when GhostCasting, because of the IRQ conflict, and for a long time no drivers were available for the NIC with the necessary magic to work around this problem, which was basically unique to the Dells and not any other chipset licensee (Broadcom's standard drivers now do, and I have to give Broadcom props generally for their driver availability).
 
 
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Re: Ghost 11/Ghost Solution Suite 2.0 and Dell GX240... Machines Freezing Up
Reply #5 - Jun 26th, 2008 at 3:20pm
 
I have had ten or twelve off-lease Dell Optiplex GX270's (a mix of Small Mini-Tower, Small Desktop, and Small Form Factor) pass through here so far this year.  Uniformly, they all have been been outfitted with the Socket 478 Pentium 2.80GHz processor, albeit some are Northwoods and others are Prescotts.

I routinely employ the 250GB Seagate FreeAgent Desktop USB external HDD on each and every GX270.  Whenever I set out to make "disk-to-image" files, I enjoy 400-700 MB/min speeds in USB2 whether using Norton Ghost Version 8.2 on a Reatogo-X-PE CD or Norton Ghost 2003 running in MS-DOS on a two-disk set of floppys.

Are you certain you are achieving operations in USB2 mode when employing an USB external HDD?

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Re: Ghost 11/Ghost Solution Suite 2.0 and Dell GX240... Machines Freezing Up
Reply #6 - Jun 26th, 2008 at 3:50pm
 
how can i check to see if USB2 mode is in operations? I have successfully created images from dell towers gx 620, gx 745, 720, and two D-620 and D-830 laptops with speeds of 400-700 MB/min on all. The 270 seems to be the only "slow" one.
 
 
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