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Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run. (Read 24840 times)
Richard K
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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #15 - Jul 15th, 2009 at 9:10pm
 
NightOwl,

These are tonight's results:

Starting the PM boot CD normally I get what I have reported earlier.
Selecting 3  DOS I get the command prompt A:\
I never was that good at DOS but typing A:\ cd X:   left me at A:\   so did A:\chdir X:
Am I missing the right command?





Starting the PM boot CD in step mode:

Going down to Device A:\ highmem.sys   yes
     Himem.sys 2.30
Device HIGH = A:\ATAPI_CD.SYS  / D:MSCDOO1 /V   yes
     Sony ATAPI CDROM DEVICE DRIVE ver 2.18B
     No drives are attached.  The device driver is not installed
LASTDRIVE =Z   yes
     Executing AUTOEXEC.BAT
     Caldera DDR-DOS 7.03
Echo off   yes      
Prompt $p$g   yes
PATH = A  yes
Loadhigh A:\MSCDEX.EXE  /D:MSCDOO1 /V /L:Y  yes
No valid CDROM device drivers are selected
Load high A:\SMARTDRIVE.EXE   yes
Echo ********************************  yes
Echo  yes
Echo You booted from a PowerQuest bootable CD   yes
     You booted from a PowerQuest CD
Echo   yes
Echo  The A drive is the bootable portion of the CD  You can access some DOS  yes
The A drive is the bootable portion of the CD  You can access some DOS
Echo  and PowerQuest troubleshooting utilizes  from the A: drive  yes
Echo  The main PowerQuest utilities and programs are located in the Y:drive  yes

From here on the responses are those I saw previously on bootup attempts.



Starting the NightOwl Ghost boot CD

It loads too fast to press F8 when MS Dos starts.
Ghost starts normally and works.

Richard
 
 
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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #16 - Jul 16th, 2009 at 12:44am
 
@
Richard K

Quote:
Starting the NightOwl Ghost boot CD

It loads too fast to press F8 when MS Dos starts.

Try to start pressing F8 just before you see the *Starting Windows 98.....* message--it's okay to press it sooner--I often times press it repeatedly just to make sure the system responds.

Quote:
For some reason, your optical drive is not being recognized!  But, you have said you have previously been able to boot successfully from your PM installation disc!  Has anything changed as far as your optical drive is concerned since the last time you were successful in booting your PM disc?  Did you replace the drive with a new one?  Did you move it from a previous location as far as what communication cable was connected to it?  Anything you can think of?

Any comments?

Quote:
Device HIGH = A:\ATAPI_CD.SYS  / D:MSCDOO1 /V   yes
     Sony ATAPI CDROM DEVICE DRIVE ver 2.18B
     No drives are attached.  The device driver is not installed

Well...this indicates that the DOS optical driver does not detect the presence of the optical drive.  Obviously you are booting from the optical drive--but it is a different function--one is being controlled by the BIOS--the bootability--and the other is accessing the drive in DOS.

Quote:
I never was that good at DOS but typing A:\ cd X:   left me at A:\   so did A:\chdir X:
Am I missing the right command?

Sort of!  What you type is x:, and then press *Enter* to change to a different drive. But, you simply do not have an X: drive.  Actually, the PM boot disc forces your optical drive to be *Y:*, and not X:.  But, the error indicated above says there is no optical drive in DOS--so no drive letter is assigned--so neither X: or Y: will have any effect!.

Quote:
Starting the NightOwl Ghost boot CD

It loads too fast to press F8 when MS Dos starts.
Ghost starts normally and works.

My boot CD only depends on the bootability access part of the equation (i.e. the BIOS)--but, it also loads a DOS optical drive driver--we need to see if that is being successful!  So, try using F8 sooner so you can see the individual steps for the boot files.

Results?
 

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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #17 - Jul 16th, 2009 at 9:23pm
 
I have done nothing I am aware of that could have caused changes in the hard disk.

I got your boot disk to run step-by-step.

It got to
This device is provided by Oak Technology......

Device Name   :  NightOwl
No drivers found, aborting installation
Last derive = Z
Than the remaining steps were done down to

A:\> ghost.exe
ghost.exe  Y/N    yes

and than Ghost started

I closed Ghost and got to

A:\>
Neither X: or Y: produced results.

Richard
 
 
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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #18 - Jul 17th, 2009 at 12:04am
 
@
Richard K

Quote:
I have done nothing I am aware of that could have caused changes in the hard disk.

Read carefully--I asked about your optical drive!

Quote:
Has anything changed as far as your optical drive is concerned since the last time you were successful in booting your PM disc?  Did you replace the drive with a new one?  Did you move it from a previous location as far as what communication cable was connected to it?  Anything you can think of?


Quote:
Device Name   :  NightOwl
No drivers found, aborting installation

Looks like there is something amiss with your optical drive.  I think you said you have no problem using the drive when booted to Windows.  And the BIOS sees it long enough to read and boot from the hidden boot sector on your PM installation disc, my Ghost boot disc, and the Windows installation disc--but *it is not there* when it's time to read from the data portion of the various discs.

Lets try a couple more things:

1.  Loosen the communication cable to the optical drive--you don't have to completely disconnect it--just loosen--and then re-set it.  Do the same where the communication cable for the optical drive is connected to the motherboard.

Now try booting the PM disc or my boot disc--use the F8 key again and see if your drive now shows up when the DOS optical drive driver loads--or is it still *not found*?

2.  When you do your test booting using a bootable optical disc--are you shutting down the system, or are you starting from Windows and then choosing to *Restart* without the power going off?  If that's what you are currently doing--try this after #1 above if it does not work:

Shut the system down--i.e. power off.  Then, after 10-15 second--power on and boot from one of the optical boot discs--use F8 again and see if your optical drive is now seen--is it?

**********************************************************

Do you have just the one optical drive?
 

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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #19 - Jul 17th, 2009 at 8:12am
 
Sorry about the optical/hard drive screw up.  Its my ADD again.  Sometimes I just don't see what I see.  You would be amazed at some of the problems it has caused over the years.

The Plextor CDROM hasn't been touched since I installed it years ago to replace the original.  There was never a problem I was aware with using that Plextor although I had never tried to boot from the Partition Magic CD with either of these devices.

Shutting the computer down and reseating the communication cable did not resolve the problem.
Neither did downloading the current driver from Plextor.
Neither did replacing the Plextor with the original Samsung CDROM.  That is the only other optical drive I have.

I wonder if this boot disk issue is a result of the hard drive configuration problem I first asked about?  If so is that fixable?  I downloaded the Recovery Console from MS and it will not start- I got the BSOD when I chose that option during reboot.

Richard
 
 
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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #20 - Jul 17th, 2009 at 9:08am
 
@
Richard K

Quote:
I wonder if this boot disk issue is a result of the hard drive configuration problem I first asked about?

Not likely--we did the test where that HDD was removed--and the same problem still existed, but....

Quote:
is that fixable?

Yes--and it should be fairly easy--but let's finish testing your optical drive first--the HDD partition errors appear to only be effecting using the PM program--it appears to be a *safety* feature of PM so as not to loose data.

Quote:
I downloaded the Recovery Console from MS and it will not start- I got the BSOD when I chose that option during reboot

I saw that you mentioned that in a previous post.  I was going to come back to that and ask questions once we finished troubleshooting the optical drive issue--but, being as you mentioned it again--could you provide a source for that download.  I did a Goggle search and found nothing that looked like a download from MS for the Recovery Console.  You said you *installed* that downloaded Recovery Console--what exactly does that mean--that's why I want the link to where the download came from to see if there's installation instructions, etc. ?

Quote:
The Plextor CDROM hasn't been touched since I installed it years ago to replace the original.  There was never a problem I was aware with using that Plextor although I had never tried to boot from the Partition Magic CD with either of these devices.

This statement seems to contradict this statement here:

Anybody Familiar with Partition Magic?

Quote:
The thing is, PM used to work just fine and it booted correctly from the CD

Could you clarify?  You said that you could boot from the PM CD correctly.  Was that a misstatement--meaning really you could successfully access it and *install* it when in Windows--not *boot from it*?

You also made this statement in the above mentioned link:

Quote:
I did make a clean install of WinXP around the end of 2008

How did you do that?  Were you able to successfully boot from the WinXP installation CD and perform the install from it without getting that *TXTSETUP.sif is missing or corrupt* error?

Quote:
Neither did replacing the Plextor with the original Samsung CDROM.

You've already done the next troubleshooting step that I was going to recommend!  This shows that the problem is probably not the Plextor optical drive--because the problem exists on both drives!

The evidence is now pointing at the motherboard's controller, the communication cable, or the jumper settings on both optical drives.

Let's figure out how your system is set up for your HDDs and optical drives:

Are your HDDs PATA or SATA type?

If your system is PATA based controllers--how are your HDDs and optical drive hooked up to the controllers--what's hooked up to the *primary controller* as master and/or slave--and what's hooked up to the *secondary controller* as master and/or slave?

Are you using *Cable Select* (CS or CSEL) jumper settings on the HDDs and optical drives--or specifying the *master* and *slave* with the jumpers?
 

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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #21 - Jul 17th, 2009 at 9:52pm
 
Here's something:
Interestingly I just looked at Device Manager and it  says the computer has a SATA RAID controller. Maybe this is related to my problem. 

When the computer starts it displays a page of information on the disk drives, etc.  After I installed the second hard disk that display page began showing  both disks again on separate lines below the regular info.  Here it said in green type NON RAID DISKS (not an exact quote) and below that I think something to the effect that the disk(s) are not controlled by the Raid controller.  Than there is a line with press control-I to enter the RAID BIOS but that does not do anything.  And it takes a looong time to get past that section of bootup.  Since the computer seemed to work no differently than before I just figured that was part of the deal.

It has been going on since I installed that second hard disk and it became sort of like Muzak, it just faded into the background and tonight it became the itch I had to scratch by checking Device Manager out of curiosity.

Tomorrow I will restart the computer and attempt to photograph that screen for you.



I downloaded the Recovery Console from a link given in the second page of this article from the online edition of the Washington Post.  The link asked me where I wanted to save the file rc.iso so I saved it to my downloads folder and than I ran it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/06/AR2009070602049....

Since I couldn't boot from the XP install disk it looked like the only alternative.  I did have a Ghost image of the C: drive so what the heck!

Well I hadn't attempted to boot from the PM disk until I started looking at why PM kept telling me I had a bad hard drive.

I did install PM from the PowerQuest installation CD I bought.

After I had a series of computer problems a couple of years ago I did a clean install from my XP installation CD.  There were no issues.  A couple of days ago I loaded that XP CD again with the computer running and it started up and offered to install WinXP for me.

I am using SATA hard disks.  The Dell manual for this PC did not mention the master/slave issue in the chapters on installing hard drives and optical drives. I have two hard disks because I added a second one.  I did not do anything to the original jumpers on the Dell-installed first hard drive or the second one.


Richard


 
 
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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #22 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 12:21am
 
@
Richard K

Quote:
I am using SATA hard disks.  The Dell manual for this PC did not mention the master/slave issue in the chapters on installing hard drives and optical drives.

Correct--SATA drives do not have *master/slave* settings.

Are your two optical drives also SATA
--use the same type of communication connector as the HDDs?

Quote:
it  says the computer has a SATA RAID controller. Maybe this is related to my problem.

Nope!

Quote:
Than there is a line with press control-I to enter the RAID BIOS but that does not do anything.

Maybe the RAID controller has to be *enabled* in the system's BIOS before the RAID BIOS will become active and respond to that key-stroke combination.

Quote:
I downloaded the Recovery Console from a link given in the second page of this article from the online edition of the Washington Post.  The link asked me where I wanted to save the file rc.iso so I saved it to my downloads folder and than I ran it.

That's an *iso* file--when you click on it, it should bring up your default burning program and offer to burn the iso file to an optical disc--but, you said previously that you got a BSOD--is that correct?  Do you have a burning program installed?

Quote:
After I had a series of computer problems a couple of years ago I did a clean install from my XP installation CD.  There were no issues.  A couple of days ago I loaded that XP CD again with the computer running and it started up and offered to install WinXP for me.

You're doing that from within the WinXP interface--not booting from the WinXP CD--correct?
 

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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #23 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 3:25pm
 
NightOwl,
My optical disks are SATA.  I only use one in the PC.  I changed out the one I normally use for the other to determine if the optical drive is involved in these problems.

NightOwl wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 12:21am:
That's an *iso* file--when you click on it, it should bring up your default burning program and offer to burn the iso file to an optical disc--but, you said previously that you got a BSOD--is that correct?Do you have a burning program installed?

I actually have two and my wife doesn't like either.
When I ran the iso file it executed and installed Recovery Console as a boot option that now I have in addition to WinXP.  When I chose Recovery Console it appears to start normally (I guess, who knows?).  It says starting Recovery Console  (In a white bar at the bottom of the monitor screen) for some time than produces the BSOD.

Is it reasonable to assume the writer from the Washington Post "Security Fix" column is a trusted source?

NightOwl wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 12:21am:
You're doing that from within the WinXP interface--not booting from the WinXP CD--correct? 

Yes, I just restarted Windows to get to that boot screen.

As an aside, I first installed WinXP from the program CD.  It was a  clean install. Here my memory becomes fuzzy.  I think I formatted the hard disk first, I may have just formatted the C: directory as I was changing from XP Home to XP Professional.  Doesn't the installation program format the directory before installation anyway?

The second time I did a clean install was when I had a big problem.  I believe I formatted that directory and the next one where I keep most every application that gives me a choice of destination. I installed those programs again and restored all my data files from a backup.

I must have used Partition Magic from the CD to format or recreate those two directory's, or maybe all directories (fuzzy memory).  I don't think I wold have used PM  from the application that was installed in the E: directory.

Otherwise I would have had to format from the Windows installation CD. Would it have been possible to format the C: directory using Windows Disk Management from an active Windows environment? 

Richard
 
 
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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #24 - Jul 18th, 2009 at 6:57pm
 
Wow, 22 posts before "My optical disks are SATA."

Take it away, NightOwl!   Roll Eyes

 
 
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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #25 - Jul 19th, 2009 at 10:08am
 
@
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Quote:
Take it away, NightOwl!

Thanks! 

*And back to you, Dan!*

Dan--if you happen to look at this thread again--I do have a question--it appears that Richard K is able to access the WinXP installation CD to install Windows--but, not able to access the Recovery Console--although I'm no longer sure if that information is being reported accurately!  Do you have any ideas how that might be happening when booting from the WinXP installation CD?

Quote:
Wow, 22 posts before "My optical disks are SATA."

Well, that's partially my fault!  Richard K 's report of his problems with booting to the PM disc lead me astray!  He incorrectly indicated that he had been able to boot in the past to that disc--when what he really meant was he could access the disc in Windows!

 

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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #26 - Jul 19th, 2009 at 11:11am
 
@
Richard K

Quote:
My optical disks are SATA.

Well, that explains at least 2 out of the 3 boot problems--and I maybe we can solve that 3rd problem as well!

The PartitionMagic (PM) installation disc loads a DOS optical driver that understands PATA controllers (Parallel ATA)--it does not *speak* SATA (Serial ATA)--so, it boots fine, but fails to detect your optical drive because it's on a SATA controller!  Remember, the BIOS is providing access to the *hidden boot sector* of the optical disc--so there is *access* to the optical disc for booting.  But, to assign a DOS drive letter and access *data* on the optical disc (not the hidden boot sector), you have to have a driver that can speak to a SATA controller!

Same thing for my boot disc!  I'm loading a PATA based DOS optical drive driver--so it will not find a SATA controller based optical drive!

There is a DOS based SATA optical drive driver available--but it would have to be substituted on those boot discs for the PATA drivers in order for you to have DOS drive letters assigned to your SATA optical drives so you can access the data portion of you optical discs in DOS.  (Easy to do with my boot disc--complicated to do on the PM disc!)

Where I'm confused still is your WinXP installation disc!  It sounds like you can use it to install WinXP successfully--but, you get a data read error when you try to access the Recovery Console--I'm not sure why one aspect works and not the other--I could speculate a convoluted reason, but......

The WinXP installation disc has built-in drivers for many different devices, including SATA controllers and optical drives.  But, since the WinXP disc was created, newer systems have been manufactured and correct drivers for that newer hardware may not be included.  So, when you initially boot the WinXP installation disc, down at the bottom left corner there's a line showing loading information.  For a brief moment during initial loading there is a message that says *Press F6 to load additional drivers* (or something to that effect).  If you press F6 (I usually press it several times to make sure the installation procedure catches my action!), the installation procedure *seems* to ignore you and does a few more housekeeping chores--but finally presents you with a screen that allows you to put a floppy disk in the floppy drive that has the needed driver software that's missing from the WinXP disc.

You said you have a Dell system.  You should have received a CD or floppy disk that has additional drivers and maybe other software on it.  You will have to read the manual, etc. to figure it out.  There should be a sub-directory that is probably labeled *Drivers*.  If you do not already have a floppy disk with those drivers on it, you would place the needed SATA controller driver from that CD to a floppy disk so you can load it after you press that F6.

And, maybe you have to load drivers for your SATA optical drives--I don't know about that--again you would need to read the manuals for your optical drives to possibly determine that.  Your Plextor optical drive should have a CD with additional utilities and any drivers similar to the Dell system disc.

So, if you supply those driver(s) after pressing F6, are you now able to reach the Recovery Console on the WinXP installation CD.  You have to provide the original Admin password to actually gain access the the Recovery Console.  You type *exit* and press enter to leave the Recovery Console.

Quote:
When I ran the iso file it executed and installed Recovery Console as a boot option that now I have in addition to WinXP.  When I chose Recovery Console it appears to start normally (I guess, who knows?).  It says starting Recovery Console  (In a white bar at the bottom of the monitor screen) for some time than produces the BSOD.

What do you mean by *I ran the iso file*?  The only thing I'm aware of that you can do with an *.iso* file, is burn it to an optical disc!

Here's the quote from the Washington Post's article you referenced:

Quote:
Luckily, there are free, alternative, downloadable versions: the XP Recovery Console CD and the Vista Recovery Disc. These are both .iso files (like Puppy Linux) that you can burn to bootable CDs. When you boot them, they look and behave exactly like the XP and Vista installation discs, except that when you attempt to install Windows, you get an error message. Only their repair tools work.

That says nothing about being able to *execute and install the Recovery Console*!  Now, you can in fact *install* the Recovery Console to your HDD and have a new entry added to your *boot.ini* file so that you can choose to boot to the Recovery Console during the boot process--instead of booting from the WinXP installation CD.  But, there's a very specific procedure and command line that you use to do that--and to my knowledge an *.iso* file should not do that!  So, what's going on with this?

If the Recovery Console that's installed does not have the necessary newer SATA drivers as discussed above, that may be the source of the BSOD problem--but, I'm still unclear how an *.iso* file *installed* the Recovery Console!

Quote:
Is it reasonable to assume the writer from the Washington Post "Security Fix" column is a trusted source?

Well, usually--but the download did not do what it says it's supposed to do--unless you have done something else with it!
 

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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #27 - Jul 19th, 2009 at 10:03pm
 
Thanks,

I will find those SATA drivers and try to get them into the computer.

NightOwl wrote on Jul 19th, 2009 at 11:11am:
That says nothing about being able to *execute and install the Recovery Console*!Now, you can in fact *install* the Recovery Console to your HDD and have a new entry added to your *boot.ini* file so that you can choose to boot to the Recovery Console during the boot process--instead of booting from the WinXP installation CD.But, there's a very specific procedure and command line that you use to do that--and to my knowledge an *.iso* file should not do that!So, what's going on with this?


Well, I downloaded the rc.iso from the linked site and it went to the "downloads" folder as expected.

I pressed START, selected RUN and navigated to the downloads folder.  I selected the file re.iso and than RUN.  Either it rebooted or it told me to reboot.  Anyway now during startup I get a screen where I can select either WinXP or "recovery console" I suppose as a boot option.

  Selecting Recovery Console brings me to the BSOD.  What can I say?

Richard
 
 
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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #28 - Jul 20th, 2009 at 12:40am
 
I have been thinking.  Tomorrow I will burn rc.iso to a CD and try to boot from that.  Probably should have done that in the beginning.  I guess it was pretty dumb to try to run an iso file as if it were an executable file.
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Re: Oh Nooooo! I can't get the MS recovery console to run.
Reply #29 - Jul 20th, 2009 at 8:54am
 
@
Richard K

Quote:
I pressed START, selected RUN and navigated to the downloads folder.  I selected the file re.iso and than RUN.  Either it rebooted or it told me to reboot.  Anyway now during startup I get a screen where I can select either WinXP or "recovery console" I suppose as a boot option.

I downloaded that same file.  Did exactly as you have outlined above using the *Run* command line under *Start*.  When I hit *OK*--it brought up my burning program requesting that I put a blank disc in the optical burner drive.

And, when I click (double-click if that's how you're set up), it too brings up my burning program.  So as you said:

Quote:
What can I say?


Quote:
I have been thinking.  Tomorrow I will burn rc.iso to a CD and try to boot from that.

Most likely--that Recovery Console is the exact same program as on you WinXP installation CD--just without the Windows installation files--so if you try to select one of the *Install WinXP...* options it will not respond or give you an error message.

Also, if you need to use that F6 to add your particular SATA controller drivers during the first part of the boot/loading process on your WinXP installation CD--then it will probably require the same with this Recovery Console CD!

But, it's a good exercise to test.  If using the F6 routine and adding your SATA drivers solves the access to the Recovery Console, we will have solved *all* the optical drive boot issues you have discovered recently.

Just so you know, there doesn't appear to be any problem with your actual Master Boot Record (MBR)--based on your previous PartitionMagic (PM) *PartInfo* report, the problem is with where the data begins on each partition on that HDD where you have your OS installed.  So using the Recovery Console to mess with the MBR would not be recommended/necessary--why tempt the fates if it ain't broke!!!

We will use other tools to fix that problem!
 

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