Rad wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2009 at 11:11pm:

I've mentioned it before - I like Ruby.  As a language it seems to me to get out of your way and just provide tools for you to program.  It seems simple and expressive - the code is easy to write, easy to read, and a little bit of code can do a lot.

Rad wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2009 at 11:11pm:

I'm not sure about that book.  I like this one:

http://www.pragprog.com/titles/ruby/programming-ruby

There is a slightly older version available online (free as in beer):

http://whytheluckystiff.net/ruby/pickaxe/

Rad wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2009 at 11:11pm:

With so little experience, your biggest concern should be learning the fundamentals of how to program.  Those fundamentals change very little over time.  The SICP course I worked through online was filmed in the 80's and was still 100% relevant.  So, the most recent book may not be the best.


Rad wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2009 at 11:11pm:

You have to know at least some basic Ruby or there isn't much point.  If you are going to write pure html anyway, Rails will just slow you down.  Now, some people can learn the little bit of Ruby they need while they are learning Rails (and you don't need Ruby to learn Rails, just to use it,) but those people are generally experienced (professional) web developers.

For you, having very little programing experience, I highly recommend you learn Ruby before Rails.  The experience will be less stressful, more enlightening, and more beneficial in the long term.  Ruby is a language, and the things you learn will translate to almost any language.  Rails is just a web framework - its very useful, but what you learn won't be nearly as universally applicable.

The only catch about learning Ruby is that it is dogmatically object-oriented.  Being object-oriented provides a lot of convenience, but you have to understand objects.  I never understood objects until I learned Ruby.  So, while I think Ruby is a great way to learn objects, I'm not sure if it will click for you as quickly as it did for me (since I'd seen them once or twice before.)

I'd say give Ruby a shot.  If you don't feel things clicking right away, you can easily learn some Perl instead.  Perl and Ruby are syntactically similar, but Perl is more of a functional language than object-orientated (although it is capable of both.)  Once you get a little comfortable, it'll be easy to go back to Ruby.  Hopefully, things will click and you'll enjoy Ruby.

MrMagoo wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2009 at 11:59pm:

yeah.

MrMagoo wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2009 at 11:59pm:

remarkable if you think about it, considering how quickly things change in the world of digital technology.

MrMagoo wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2009 at 11:59pm:

the pickaxe book was the first english book on ruby, i think.

MrMagoo wrote on Aug 4^th, 2009 at 12:05am:

i'm surprised you're so up on ruby, being a linux guy.

I've gone back to looking at HtDP.

Already introduced my brain to the course, months ago, so everything I still remember must be stored in long-term memory.

I was thinking of doing the same with Ruby .. introducing myself, and then putting it aside for a season .. to let it 'gel' so to speak. That seeems to be the way I learn best.

Once the foundation is set, I can move thru it much more quickly, and enjoyably.

The problem I'm finding with HtDP .. is that it doesn't seem to be written cleanly . or maybe it's just not tuned to the way my brain works. Or maybe I need to adapt.

But it feels like I have to wade thru the swamps in order to get to the orchids. (if you've ever seen the movie 'the orchid thief').

maybe this is just the way the first few pages start out and things will get cleaner as i progress.

but you know how sometimes techies don't always make the best instructors.

Feels like I have to interpret most of the things they're saying. Lots of words that say nothing.

I like what they're doing . with the Dr. Scheme programming environment. Maybe they just need to invest in a good technical-writing editor.

Repeatedly choosing big, multi-syllabic terms over their shorter, simple cousins seems to go against the very thing they profess to despise (unnecessary complexity).

Seems like I'm frequently asking myself, "Okay, what are they trying to say here?" Gets tiring after a while. As if the text were written for an academic rather than some poor sap trying to learn programming.

It's not that I don't/can't understand what they're trying to say, but rather the 'flow' is .. isn't there   .. even when the text isn't saying anything particularly technical. Probably need to just put my head down and plow.