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Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7 (Read 51352 times)
Christer
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Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Feb 11th, 2010 at 3:34pm
 
Hello all!

A friend (not the proverbial one, a real one), who also uses Ghost 2003, has asked me to build a new BOAC (Box Of Assembled Components) for him and it will run Windows 7. It will have a floppy drive and at least one PS/2 port to connect a keyboard. With that hardware, I can run Ghost 2003 from a set of floppies.

I've been trying to catch up on the discussions on Ghost 2003 compatibility with Windows 7 and believe that I can create images the same way that I've been creating them of Windows XP. This is how I do it (on XP):

I start with a new HDD [0] and install the OS. During the installation I create the primary partition [C:] and format it NTFS. When the installation is complete, I create an extended partition with a single logical drive [D:] and format it NTFS.

I also connect a backup HDD [1], create an extended partition with two logical drives [E: and F:] and format NTFS.

After completing the initial setup, including moving all user folders from C: to D:, I defragment both C: and D:.

Next, I create a Disk-To-Image of HDD0, the image file goes to F: on HDD1. With XP, that catches everything.

All subsequent images are Partition-To-Image of C: only and those image files go to F:.

User data is backed up from D: to E: using Karens Replicator.

With Windows XP, if HDD0 breaks, I can get a new one, restore the first image Disk-From-Image, restore the most current image Partition-From-Image and finally copy the user data back from E: to D:.

Am I living in a fantasy, believing that this would work with Windows 7 as well?
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
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Brian
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #1 - Feb 11th, 2010 at 4:03pm
 
@
Christer

Christer wrote on Feb 11th, 2010 at 3:34pm:
Am I living in a fantasy, believing that this would work with Windows 7 as well? 

I think it will work just fine. With a few small changes.

Christer wrote on Feb 11th, 2010 at 3:34pm:
I start with a new HDD [0] and install the OS. During the installation I create the primary partition [C:] and format it NTFS.

Don't do this or Win7 will create a 100 MB System Reserved Partition which you don't need and is a pain. Create all your partitions before you let the Win7 DVD near your computer. This way the partitions will be cylinder aligned and compatible with Ghost 2003. When you install Win7 to your chosen partition, click Advanced and click Format. Sometimes Win7 won't install unless you do this Format.

I've created and restored Ghost 2003 partition images of Win7. I can't recall if Win7 needed a Repair after the restore but that is no big deal.

I still recommend your tutorial on moving Data folders out of WinXP. I haven't looked at a similar Win7 process yet as I still use WinXP as my main OS. New project for you???

 
 
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Brian
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #2 - Feb 11th, 2010 at 6:01pm
 
I just did a Win7, Ghost 2003 image/restore. Win7 failed to boot and showed a Windows Boot Manager error.
A Startup Repair from the Win7 DVD and Win7 booted.
 
 
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Dan Goodell
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #3 - Feb 11th, 2010 at 7:49pm
 
Brian wrote on Feb 11th, 2010 at 4:03pm:
...moving Data folders out of WinXP. I haven't looked at a similar Win7 process yet ...

It's even easier in Win7, Brian.  Click the Start button and select the username link at the top of the right column.  Links to all your user folders are there in one place.  Right-click on any one of them, select 'Properties', select the 'Location' tab, and move it to a new location.  You don't even need to pre-create the folder structure on the destination partition.  Most of the time I just change the "C:" in the 'Location' tab to "D:" and let Win7 create the same subfolder structure and move all the files at the same time.


 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #4 - Feb 11th, 2010 at 8:42pm
 
So easy. Thanks. Can you move the AppData folder?

It's a pleasure not having the Desktop in the C: drive!
 
 
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Christer
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #5 - Feb 12th, 2010 at 6:16am
 
Brian,

Quote:
Don't do this or Win7 will create a 100 MB System Reserved Partition which you don't need and is a pain. Create all your partitions before you let the Win7 DVD near your computer. This way the partitions will be cylinder aligned and compatible with Ghost 2003. When you install Win7 to your chosen partition, click Advanced and click Format. Sometimes Win7 won't install unless you do this Format.

Thanks for the heads up. I have been googling in the meantime and found out that there's a way to avoid that partition. My strategy has been amended to hook up all the HDDs to a XP system and create/format all the partitions. Maybe formating in XP is an overkill since I guess that I'll reformat in W7. (Formatting a HDD of 1 TB means "start the formating and go fishing" ... Lips Sealed ... right?)

Quote:
I still recommend your tutorial on moving Data folders out of WinXP. I haven't looked at a similar Win7 process yet as I still use WinXP as my main OS. New project for you???

I'm glad you find it useful ... Smiley ... but a similar one for W7 is some time away. I've just started learning and Dan indicates that such a guide may be unnecessary. (Writing the XP guide was a way to learn and better remember the procedures - not entirely unselfish ... Undecided ...)

Quote:
I just did a Win7, Ghost 2003 image/restore. Win7 failed to boot and showed a Windows Boot Manager error.
A Startup Repair from the Win7 DVD and Win7 booted.

Thanks for testing!

Did you create the image Disk-To-Image or Partition-To-Image? I assume Partition-To-Image and a restore to the same HDD, right? The result indicates that something changes, something that is not included in a Partition-To-Image.

Dan,

Quote:
It's even easier in Win7, Brian.

That's good to hear. Something has become easier ... Kiss ... !
 

Old chinese proverb:
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #6 - Feb 12th, 2010 at 2:07pm
 
@
Christer

I used Partition to Image. Restore to same HD.
The "source" HD had 8 MB of unallocated space preceding the Win7 partition. The "target" HD didn't, so the partition offset of the restored OS was different from the original. This was probably the cause of the Boot Manager error.

Christer wrote on Feb 12th, 2010 at 6:16am:
(Formatting a HDD of 1 TB means "start the formating and go fishing" ... Lips Sealed ... right?)

You don't need to go fishing if you do a quick format.


Dan, you use Ghost 2003 with Win7. I think you once said that a repair from the Win7 DVD doesn't always work. Any comments?

 
 
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Christer
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #7 - Feb 12th, 2010 at 3:29pm
 
Brian,
now you have lost me:

Quote:
I used Partition to Image. Restore to same HD.
The "source" HD had 8 MB of unallocated space preceding the Win7 partition. The "target" HD didn't, so the partition offset of the restored OS was different from the original. This was probably the cause of the Boot Manager error.

You say restore to same HD but there were differences ... Huh ... what happened in between creating and restoring?

Quote:
You don't need to go fishing if you do a quick format.

True but years ago, someone told me to always do a full format because the drive gets checked. In addition to that, it's been a long time since I went fishing ... Wink ... !
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
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Brian
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #8 - Feb 12th, 2010 at 3:42pm
 
@
Christer

I shouldn't have used those terms. Source and Target. I had 2 partitions on the HD. Win7 and a backup partition. The image was written to the backup partition. I deleted the Win7 partition and then found I couldn't restore to unallocated space so I created a partition. But this partition didn't have 8 MB of unallocated space in front of it.

Do you need any more info?

Edit.. I'll do it again with a Win7 partition not preceded by unallocated space and I won't delete the Win7 partition after creating the image.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #9 - Feb 12th, 2010 at 4:32pm
 
No problems with that restore. Win7 booted on the first attempt.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #10 - Feb 12th, 2010 at 4:54pm
 
As I'm already set up, I tried another test. The Win7 partition was deleted. A 2 GB partition was created and then a 10 GB partition for Win7. The same Ghost 2003 image was restored to the Win7 partition. It didn't boot due to "Partition does not contain an OS". My fault, as the 2 GB partition was "Active". So Win7 was set Active and again there was a Windows Boot Manager error presumably due to the different partition offset. A BCD Edit from BING had Win 7 booting within a minute.
 
 
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Dan Goodell
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #11 - Feb 12th, 2010 at 10:29pm
 
Christer wrote:
    Quote: "It's even easier in Win7, Brian."
    That's good to hear. Something has become easier!

Yeah, that's a surprise, isn't it?  Microsoft actually made those changes in Vista, but with the unpopularity of Vista I don't think many people noticed.  With XP (and earlier) I always had the feeling Microsoft really didn't want people changing those locations.  Now it seems like Microsoft is conceding, "Well, if that's what you want, then it's okay."


Brian wrote:
    So easy. Thanks. Can you move the AppData folder?

No, no easy way to move the AppData folder.  It can be done, but not easily.

Frankly, that doesn't bother me, though.  I don't look at that as being my data, anyway.  It's data that is put there by an application, and even though it's associated with a particular user, it's really for the application's use.  It's really just another form of application-specific configuration data--like configuration files or registry entries.  I see that as being quite different from my own data (my documents, my favorites, etc).

Sure, it would be nice to backup your personal preferences for the way applications are configured, but as long as that kind of stuff is spread throughout an assortment of registry entries, ini files, dat files, cfg files, files in 'c:\windows\system32', files in 'c:\program files', files in 'c:\documents and settings' ... well, if there's no easy way to get it all, being able to get just a piece of it is not a big deal.  There's just no consistency--did you ever notice there's 'c:\documents and settings\{user}\application data' and 'c:\documents and settings\{user}\local settings\application data'?  (Those are in XP, but Win7 is just as obfuscated.)

The only practical way to get it all is still a partition image.  So if that's what I've got to do, I don't fret over the location of AppData, just as I don't bother giving applications their own partition.


Brian wrote:
    It's a pleasure not having the Desktop in the C: drive!

I can't remember the last time I've had the Desktop on C: on any of my own computers.  In Win2000 and XP I've always moved the Desktop to another location.

As I recall, one of the reasons I started doing that was so I could share the Desktop across the network.  When left in 'c:\documents and settings', Win2000 and XP made it very difficult to share, but when moved elsewhere it was as easy to share as any other folder.

This enables me to put a shortcut on my Desktop such as, say, "Lucy's Desktop", and then whenever I want to send a document to my wife I can drag and drop the file onto the icon and it instantly pops up on her computer's Desktop.

I also move the Desktop on computers I prep for others.  Some people have a habit of creating folders on their Desktop and storing files there, which compromises the effectiveness of moving 'My Documents'.  Moving the Desktop takes care of that.


Brian wrote:
    Dan, you use Ghost 2003 with Win7. I think you once said that a repair from the Win7 DVD doesn't always work. Any comments?

IMHE, doing a repair from the CD/DVD in XP, Vista, and Win7 hasn't always worked for me.  But I won't say I've got a lot of experience trying because I tend to stay away from fix-it utilities that make changes without me really knowing what they're doing.  I'm always afraid they might make things worse and turn a repairable situation into an unrepairable loss.  I prefer to make changes manually that I know I can reverse if I need to.

What BCD edits do you make from BING, Brian?  I use BING's BCD editor to change the relevant boot settings to "{boot}", and after doing that I've had very little trouble moving a clone of the partition to any other partition or hard disk.


 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #12 - Feb 12th, 2010 at 11:14pm
 
Dan Goodell wrote on Feb 12th, 2010 at 10:29pm:
What BCD edits do you make from BING, Brian?

I just use the suggestions from this page.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=318

How do you move your Desktop in WinXP? I tried drag and drop as well as TweakUI. If I tried to create a new document from the Desktop it would appear in the new folder but it wouldn't be present on the Desktop.

I'm looking forward to sharing desktops. That does sound useful.

Edit... Fixed the Desktop problem. It just needed a restart.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #13 - Feb 13th, 2010 at 6:47am
 
Okay, the Terabyte how-to in your link suggests changing the relevant BCD options to "{boot}".  That's the same thing I do.

Brian wrote on Feb 12th, 2010 at 4:54pm:
As I'm already set up, I tried another test [...] Ghost 2003 image was restored to the Win7 partition [...] Win7 was set Active and again there was a Windows Boot Manager error presumably due to the different partition offset. A BCD Edit from BING had Win 7 booting within a minute. 

When you start the BCD edit, what are the settings before you change them?  If you're following the Terabyte how-to, that implies they must not have been {boot} before.  What were the BCD settings of your source partition before creating the image?

I use BING to BCD-edit my source partition to {boot} before making the image, and upon restore it stays {boot}.

I just tried an experiment, using Ghost 2003 to image a Win7 partition from a CHS-aligned partition #1 on HD-0, and restoring it to a 2048-aligned partition #2 on HD-1.  I added a BING menu boot item for it, and the clone booted right up without a problem.  (FTR, I don't use unlimited primaries, in the new boot item I ticked the "swap" option, hid all primary partitions on HD-0, and hid primary #1 on HD-1.)

(Aside: I think the DiskID and possibly also the LBA starting location of the boot partition may count toward determining whether Win7 thinks you need to reactivate or not, so whenever possible it's probably a good idea to keep one or both the same as the original source was.)

 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #14 - Feb 13th, 2010 at 10:20am
 
Dan, I repeated my first test. I restored the old TeraByte image which restores with an 8 MB offset. The 4 parameters mentioned in the TeraByte how-to were all HD 0, Partition name. I checked all Win7 partitions on my main computer and they are the same so that's how Win7 must install.

All 4 parameters were changed to {boot} in BING's BCD Edit. The partition was imaged by Ghost2003, the partition was then deleted and a new partition created with a "zero" offset. The image was restored to this partition and Win7 booted. Yesterday when Win7 didn't boot the 4 BCD parameters were HD 0, empty.

I was using BING from a CD. It was not installed on the HD. Your test was more aggressive than mine so {boot} must be the answer for successful Ghost2003 restores. Christer, take note.
 
 
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