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Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7 (Read 53442 times)
Christer
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #15 - Feb 13th, 2010 at 10:46am
 
Brian,

Quote:
Do you need any more info?

You provided more info in your next posts which cover most of my questions.

Quote:
unallocated space

In Win XP, when you create partitions to the full capacity of the HDD, there are a few MB of space that cannot be allocated. That space does not show in Disk Manager. Is it different in Win 7?

Quote:
I'll do it again with a Win7 partition not preceded by unallocated space and I won't delete the Win7 partition after creating the image.

No problems with that restore. Win7 booted on the first attempt.

This indicates that my strategy will work as long as I restore to the original source partition. I also think that the presence of unallocated space has no impact on success or failure as long as there is no change.

Quote:
So Win7 was set Active and again there was a Windows Boot Manager error presumably due to the different partition offset.

This indicates that the problems arise if I restore to a partition other than the original source partition.

This is a rhetorical thought, I don't expect you to get a new hard disk to test ... Wink ... but: I wonder if my first image, Disk-To-Image, can be restored to a new hard disk and the result is a system booting without any further fiddling? If the hard disks are identical, my guess is YES but if not, my guess is NO.

Quote:
BCD Edit from BING

I'll have to read up on that ... Embarrassed ... I have no idea what you're discussing.

Dan,

Quote:
Yeah, that's a surprise, isn't it?  >>> Now it seems like Microsoft is conceding, "Well, if that's what you want, then it's okay."

Maybe they have read my guide ... Cool ... ?
 

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If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
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Christer
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #16 - Feb 13th, 2010 at 11:00am
 
Brian,

Quote:
Christer, take note.

I have noticed what you have found out but I have to read up on "BCD Edit from BING " and also the TeraByte article to better understand what happens and why.

As a side note, I downloaded the Ghost 15 manual. The new version is not only compatible with Win 7, it also supports cold imaging, booted from the DVD. Is it possible that Symantec have listened to the customers who wants to do cold imaging?
 

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Brian
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #17 - Feb 13th, 2010 at 11:02am
 
@
Christer

Christer wrote on Feb 13th, 2010 at 10:46am:
In Win XP, when you create partitions to the full capacity of the HDD, there are a few MB of space that cannot be allocated. That space does not show in Disk Manager. Is it different in Win 7?

I only saw that space in BING. I'm not sure why it's there. Something I did.

Dan's method of 4 {boot} entries should allay all your concerns. You can restore the Ghost2003 image to "anywhere" and it will boot.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=318

This how-to only recommends 2 {boot} entries but 4 are needed for a successful Ghost2003 restore to "anywhere".
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #18 - Feb 13th, 2010 at 11:14am
 
Christer wrote on Feb 13th, 2010 at 11:00am:
Is it possible that Symantec have listened to the customers who wants to do cold imaging? 

Yes. But they haven't listened about re-writing the section on Copy Drive, cloning one HD to another. It is basically the same guide written by PowerQuest and leads to so many clone failures.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #19 - Feb 13th, 2010 at 12:29pm
 
Brian,

Now, I at least know what BING and BCD stands for ... Cool ... but I have not yet understood which {boot} entries you refer to. I have to read up a bit more on the 2 (TeraByte) and 4 (Dan) {boot} entries.
 

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Dan Goodell
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #20 - Feb 13th, 2010 at 7:21pm
 
Christer,

The BCD store (Boot Configuration Data) is the Vista/Win7 alternative to the boot.ini file used by NT/2K/XP.  In typical Microsoft fashion, though, they've turned what used to be a simple text file (boot.ini) into a non-human readable binary file (the BCD store), so you need some kind of translator or editor to read it.  There are a few BCD editors around, but the one I'm most familiar with is the one built into the BootIt-NG (BING) partition manager.

In the past we've discussed how Ghost (by default) automatically adjusts the boot.ini file on the copy if Ghost believes that is necessary to make the copy bootable.  The boot.ini file has been around since NT, so Ghost 2003 was aware of its existence and purpose, and could make the adjustment to it.  Without that adjustment--or if Ghost did it wrong--you might have to manually edit boot.ini so Windows NT/2K/XP will boot.  That's become familiar territory.

Similarly, one might need to edit the BCD store on a Vista/Win7 copy to make it boot.  However, Ghost 2003 predated the introduction of BCD, so it has no facility to automatically adjust it for you.  Consequently, there would be more circumstances in which you would have to do it yourself.  Newer Ghost versions that claim Vista compatibility presumably make the BCD edits automatically, just as Ghost 2003 did with boot.ini files.

The easiest way to familiarize yourself with BCD is to download BING and use it to start snooping around a Vista or Win7 partition's BCD.  You'll probably be able to get a fair idea of what many of the settings are for.  You'll notice there are several places where a specific HD or partition is referenced.  Those are the settings Brian and I are zeroing in on.

The edits I make are to go down the list and, anywhere I see a reference to "HD-0" or "HD-1", I change it to "{boot}".  That seems to be a shortcut way of referring to, "whatever partition you booted from."  If I make those changes and then use Ghost 2003 to clone or image the partition, all I need to do when I restore is set the partition active, and the fact Ghost 2003 didn't change anything isn't a liability.

 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #21 - Feb 13th, 2010 at 10:08pm
 
A little off topic. There is a problem with Ghost 15 Copy Drive and Win7. After cloning the Win7 partition from old to new HD, neither OS will boot. A BING BCD Edit on the old HD fixes it. A BING BCD Edit and changing the Disk ID on the new HD to match the Disk ID of the old HD fixes it.

I tried BING's  4 {boot} edits prior to a Copy Drive. It works. Both HDs boot into Win7. This is a first time success for Ghost 15. And the Disk ID on the old HD isn't being copied to the new HD.

Dan, is there a Win7 command line equivalent to what BING is doing?
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #22 - Feb 13th, 2010 at 11:27pm
 
A complication. If you have Win7 with a SRP and edit the 4 parameters to {boot}, Win 7 won't boot. There is a Windows Boot Manager error. If the first two parameters are changed to HD 0, Win7 partition, the OS boots.

Edit.... I removed the SRP after copying the booting files to Win7. Now 4 {boot} entries can be used and Win7 boots.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #23 - Feb 14th, 2010 at 1:16am
 
Brian wrote on Feb 13th, 2010 at 11:27pm:
If you have Win7 with a SRP and edit the 4 parameters to {boot}, Win 7 won't boot.

That doesn't necessarily surprise me.  I don't know what {boot} specifically refers to, so when you've got the boot process split between separate boot and system partitions, I don't know enough to predict how it will behave.

When you've got the active partition, the boot partition, and the system partition all as one and the same, understanding precisely what {boot} refers to is not so crucial... and a good argument for keeping things simple!



Brian wrote on Feb 13th, 2010 at 10:08pm:
Dan, is there a Win7 command line equivalent to what BING is doing? 

I'm sure there is, somewhere ... boot into Win7, open an elevated command prompt, and type "bcdedit /?" or "bcdedit /set /?" and you'll get some info.

Editing with BING is so much easier that I haven't been interested in taking the time to explore alternate methods.



 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #24 - Feb 14th, 2010 at 11:03am
 
Dan,

Quote:
The easiest way to familiarize yourself with BCD is to download BING and use it to start snooping around a Vista or Win7 partition's BCD.

I think that's what I have to do. Thanks for your time ... Smiley ... !

Brian,

Quote:
There is a problem with Ghost 15 Copy Drive and Win7.

Was the operation run from within Win 7 or booted from the Ghost 15 DVD?

(Maybe we should start a new topic on Ghost 15 in the appropriate forum? Silly me bringing it into this discussion ... Embarrassed ... )
 

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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #25 - Feb 14th, 2010 at 12:22pm
 
@
Christer

Christer wrote on Feb 14th, 2010 at 11:03am:
Was the operation run from within Win 7 or booted from the Ghost 15 DVD?

Unlike hot and cold imaging, Ghost 15 Copy Drive can only be run from Windows.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #26 - Feb 15th, 2010 at 3:49am
 
Okey Brian,
I'll stop asking stupid questions and thank you for your time!
 

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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #27 - Feb 15th, 2010 at 1:26pm
 
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Christer

Quoting NightOwl, "No question is stupid". Keep them coming.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #28 - Feb 20th, 2010 at 12:59pm
 
@
Christer and
@
Brian

I've been reading this and similar thread with great interest--I hope to be upgrading to Win7 in the future and this info will be very helpful:

Quote from Brian's reply #1:

Quote:
I still recommend your (Christer's) tutorial on moving Data folders out of WinXP.

Help me out here!  I recall Christer posting a thread on the forums here a long time ago (several years), and I somehow did not include that in my file of *important* threads to remember  Embarrassed .  It talked about moving data files (Favorites, My Documents, email storage folders, etc.) to a separate partition from the OS (which I have done!) so one could restore the OS partition from an image file without loosing any data files that had accumulated since the OS image file was created!

Can't find it--do you remember the link to that posting? 

And, is there a Christer Tutorial on some other forum that you are referring to?  Links?

 

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Re: Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7
Reply #29 - Feb 20th, 2010 at 3:04pm
 
 
 
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