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What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs? (Read 18650 times)
voximan
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What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Sep 26th, 2010 at 7:09am
 
A search by me on these forums for anything relating to this enquiry produced a thread which dates back some two years, so I'm now hoping for some info from contributors that's up-to-date.

First of all, am I correct in assuming that Ghost 2003 Build 793 as of today supports all SATA hard-disc drives?

Second, and perhaps more importantly, is the Symantec 'update to v.793' still available from their archive server? I thought I read somewhere that the update files were getting pirated and so Symantec decided in the end to stop making them available.

I've been using Build 793 for a few years now, having updated from that archive server, and have therefore been using Ghost 2003 (in PC-DOS mode) to image the contents of my HDD partitions to both within the same HDD and externally to a USB HDD. The HDD on the computer is an IDE drive, and it's running on WinXP SP3 32-bit.

I'm now planning to build a new computer, as my current machine is nearly 10 years old now and some of my apps run too slow. On the new machine I'll still be using WinXP 32-bit, but of course with a SATA HDD rather than an IDE HDD.

Because the new mobo (from Gigabyte) requires a SATA Controller driver to be installed at the same time as the operating system (at the very start of the Windows Setup in fact), I'll have no option but to rebuild all my software from scratch on the SATA HDD, and therefore I'll need to use that archived Build 793 if I actually want to still have the Ghost 2003 app on the computer and to continue to make floppy Ghost bootdisks from it (though I suppose if I make several copy floppies right now, I could in theory not require the Ghost app itself and just rely on a floppy from hereon). You see, in a few years time I might want to change my OS from WinXP to Win7, in which case I think I'd definitely then need Build 793 in order to make a revised Ghost bootdisk.

Is there any limit on SATA disk or partition sizes, under WinXP 32-bit, with Build 793?

So, what's the current status with these things? Anyone know?

It'd be pretty devastating if were unable to have Ghost 2003 Build 793 at the end of building my new machine, as over the years it's been like an old friend; it's saved my bacon so many times. I do mostly partition to-partition imaging and restoring (Local>Partition>To Image, and Local>Partition>From Image). 

 
 
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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #1 - Sep 26th, 2010 at 10:28am
 
Quote:
Because the new mobo (from Gigabyte) requires a SATA Controller driver to be installed at the same time as the operating system (at the very start of the Windows Setup in fact), ...

Which motherboard?

I have built two computers during the last two months based on GA-P55A-UD4 and GA-870A-UD3. Neither required the "F6 routine" but the BIOS told the installer what it was dealing with. If you're setting up in RAID, the "F6 routine" is reqiured.

... Undecided ...
 

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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #2 - Sep 26th, 2010 at 11:17am
 
Ah well, Christer, you might well be right about that. I have to confess that my knowledge of SATA drivers and when they're needed and when they're not is very limited.

The mobo will probably (but not definitely, as I'm still looking around for something similar) be a GA-P55-US3L. I've already downloaded its user manual and, for using SATA, it APPEARS to say that you need to make a floppy with the SATA driver on it. I must admit I thought this was a bit excessive just to fit and run a straightforward SATA HDD. I'm not needing any RAID. Here's what it says; see what you think:-

5-1 Configuring SATA Hard Drive(s)

To configure SATA hard drive(s), follow the steps below:
A. Install SATA hard drive(s) in your computer.
B. Configure SATA controller mode in BIOS Setup.
C. Configure a RAID array in RAID BIOS. (Note 1)
D. Make a floppy disk containing the SATA RAID/AHCI driver for Windows XP. (Note 2)
E. Install the SATA RAID/AHCI driver and operating system. (Note 2).

Before you begin please prepare:
• At least two SATA hard drives (to ensure optimal performance, it is recommended that you use two hard drives with identical model and capacity). If you do not want to create RAID, you may prepare only one hard drive.
• An empty formatted floppy disk.
• Windows Vista/XP setup disk.
• Motherboard driver disk.
(Note 1) Skip this step if you do not want to create RAID array.
(Note 2) Required when the SATA controller is set to AHCI or RAID mode.


I've assumed that, though I don't need RAID, I'll be using AHCI. Is that the case or am I confusing AHCI with something else?

It goes on to say:

Turn on your computer and press <Delete> to enter BIOS Setup during the POST. In BIOS Setup, go to Integrated Peripherals, ensure that Onboard SATA/IDE Device is enabled. Then set Onboard SATA/IDE Ctrl Mode to RAID/IDE (Figure 1). If you do not want to create RAID, set this item to IDE or AHCI.

Is this just a misunderstanding on my part due to ignorance of the issue, or would you say that Gigabyte's instructions are misleading? I could sure do with some guidance on it.
 
 
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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #3 - Sep 26th, 2010 at 2:46pm
 
Quote:
Is this just a misunderstanding on my part due to ignorance of the issue, or would you say that Gigabyte's instructions are misleading? I could sure do with some guidance on it.

I took a short cut by NOT reading the manual ... Shocked ... but I checked the one for GA-870A-UD3 and it has the same reading.

When I enter the BIOS setup > Integrated Peripherals, for "OnChip SATA Type" I can select "Native IDE" (which I have), RAID or AHCI. As I understand it, AHCI is only necessary if you want hot-swap capability but ... Undecided ... I may be wrong.
 

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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #4 - Sep 26th, 2010 at 3:42pm
 
@
voximan

Just a few comments without any details.

If you want to try, I think you should be able to restore an image of your current OS to the new computer's HD and get it working. You can install controller drivers before attempting to boot WinXP by using TBOSDT.

When installing WinXP with the BIOS in Native IDE or ATA mode, you don't need to install controller drivers from a floppy.

Win7 has native AHCI support and controller drivers don't need to be installed from a floppy during the OS install.

 
 
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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #5 - Sep 27th, 2010 at 5:19am
 
Christer and Brian,

Being new to SATA drives, perhaps I've misunderstood the name of the default operating mode for the bog-standard use of a SATA HDD. From what I read in the user manual for the mobo that I have in mind (but have not yet got), there are three modes - RAID, AHCI and IDE. I won't be using a RAID configuration so, of the other two, I naturally assumed that I'd select (in the BIOS and elsewhere) AHCI, since IDE suggests a Parallel ATA drive arrangement. But maybe I'm wrong about that, as googling for AHCI I've discovered that AHCI mode gives you better queueing of the data on the drive and an ability to hot-swap. But apparently the advantages of this are questionable. The reason I didn't think IDE would be the mode to choose is because this mobo does include a legacy IDE connector on it, for using a couple of P-ATA drives if you wish. But maybe with mobos these days you select IDE even if you're using a SATA HDD? If this is the case (and putting aside that it's a bit of a misnomer), then it'd appear that I wouldn't need to prepare a floppy with the SATA driver on it. And perhaps all I'd need do when reinstalling WinXP would be to ensure that the correct HDD mode is selected in the BIOS.

Brian, yes I've wondered if it'd be possible to transfer my working partitions from my current P-ATA drive on this machine (the machine I'm using right now) on to the SATA HDD on the proposed new machine. But the idea pre-supposes so many things and, under the circumstances, it'd be very risky. I'd want to partition the new HDD differently to my existing HDD, anyway. But yes, if that were possible, I could then fold back to the appropriate partition image. I reckon, though, that for myriad reasons it'd be better for me to reinstall WinXP and my software from scratch, on the SATA HDD.
 
 
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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #6 - Sep 27th, 2010 at 7:52am
 
A few years ago, when SATA was new, I built a system and choose AHCI. The hot swap capability renders an icon, just like an USB-drive, in the system tray for each hard disk with the exception of the one with the operating system (which is not considered to be hot swap). That fact alone is enough for me to run them in "Native IDE" mode.

As I understand the BIOS setup, each controller can be configured separately as AHCI. My "solution" if/when I get a hard disk that I want to hot swap, will be to configure the eSATA controller as AHCI.
 

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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #7 - Sep 27th, 2010 at 10:42am
 
What you say seems to make sense, Christer. It looks as though I really HAVE misunderstood the setting of the mode for just a single, straightforward SATA HDD. It should be set up as IDE and, as such, no prepared floppy-with-a-driver will be required when installing the OS. In other words, IDE means "native SATA mode". Right?

Getting back to my original question, do you happen to know if Ghost 2003 Build 793 definitely supports all SATA HDDs? And do you know if the Build 793 update is still available from that Symantec legacy server?
 
 
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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #8 - Sep 27th, 2010 at 11:27am
 
Quote:
IDE means "native SATA mode". Right?

On my GA-870A-UD3;

- for the SATA 3 controller, they label the mode "Native IDE"
- for the SATA 2 controller, they label the mode "IDE"
- for the eSATA controller, they label the mode "IDE" (assumably since it basically conforms to SATA 2 standard)

So, it's "Native IDE or just "IDE".

Quote:
Getting back to my original question, do you happen to know if Ghost 2003 Build 793 definitely supports all SATA HDDs?

I have only worked with Hitachi hard disks. The most recent ones 500 GB and 1 TB 7K1000.C. As I understand it, the devices and host adapters should conform to specifications issued by The Serial ATA International Organisation. How well they do it ... Lips Sealed ... may be open for debate but I assume that if the motherboard (BIOS) detects the hard disks, Ghost 2003 build 793 should run.

Quote:
And do you know if the Build 793 update is still available from that Symantec legacy server?

It was back in 2008 that I last updated a Ghost 2003 installation from the Symantec Archive Server. I'm not there yet with this build but in a week or so ... Cool ... I'll hopefully know.
 

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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #9 - Sep 28th, 2010 at 5:36am
 
I'm new to SATA HDDs but do the vast majority of them now come as SATA 2? As far as I can determine, SATA 2 and 3 differ principally in their transfer speeds.

Hmm, the mobo I have in mind doesn't have an eSATA facility. That's got me thinking. Beside imaging the partition to a reserved one on my system HDD, I backup also to a USB-connected HDD at present, which after all, is serial. So, would I be any better off with a mobo with eSATA as well as SATA 2? Does anyone use SATA 3 these days?

I'll look forward to hearing how you get on with the 793 update in a few weeks time. I certainly hope it's still available.
 
 
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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #10 - Sep 28th, 2010 at 12:36pm
 
Quote:
I'm new to SATA HDDs but do the vast majority of them now come as SATA 2?

Yes, I have not yet seen any SATA 3 hard disks and SATA 1 have vanished from the market.

Quote:
Does anyone use SATA 3 these days?

I believe Gigabyte was the first to implement a SATA 3 controller, possibly indicating that SATA 3 hard disks aren't far behind.

Quote:
Beside imaging the partition to a reserved one on my system HDD, I backup also to a USB-connected HDD at present, which after all, is serial.

I have always used a mobile rack in which I can use different hard disks, e.g. one for data backup and a second for ghost images. In the last two builds (one for a friend and another for myself) I have built in a RaidSonic Icy Box.
 

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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #11 - Sep 28th, 2010 at 1:45pm
 
Quote:
I'll look forward to hearing how you get on with the 793 update in a few weeks time. I certainly hope it's still available.

Well, my friend, for your convenience (and a wee bit to satisfy my own curiosity) I did a test.

I started with nothing Symantec installed.

Download LiveUpdate v.3.5.0.64, the most recent LiveUpdate version and Settings.Hosts.LiveUpdate.

Install LiveUpdate and copy Settings.Hosts.LiveUpdate to "C:\Program\Symantec\LiveUpdate" (or to which folder LiveUpdate has been installed).

ControlPanel > Symantec LiveUpdate:
General > Interactive Mode
Automatic LiveUpdate > Uncheck the box for "Use Automatic LiveUpdate"

On the Desktop, create a shortcut to C:\Program\Symantec\LiveUpdate\LUALL.EXE

Install Norton Ghost 2003.

Run LiveUpdate from the shortcut > Use location profile: "SYMANTEC ARCHIVE"

It didn't work ... Huh ... Lips Sealed ... just kidding ... Grin ... !

Prior to running Live Update, at a cmd prompt, typing "C:\Program\Symantec\Norton Ghost 2003\ghost.exe -ver" revealed build=775

The first LU session updated Ghost to build=789

The second LU session updated Ghost to build=793

Quote:
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corporation

C:\Documents and Settings\MyName>cd\

C:\>cd program

C:\Program>cd symantec

C:\Program\Symantec>cd norton ghost 2003

C:\Program\Symantec\Norton Ghost 2003>ghost.exe -ver
Norton Ghost 2003 (build=775, cdrlib=3.1.24)
Copyright (C) 1998-2002 Symantec Corp. All rights reserved.

C:\Program\Symantec\NORTON~1>ghost.exe -ver
Norton Ghost 2003 (build=789, cdrlib=3.1.25)
Copyright (C) 1998-2003 Symantec Corp. All rights reserved.

C:\Program\Symantec\NORTON~1>ghost.exe -ver
Norton Ghost 2003 (build=793, cdrlib=3.1.25)
Copyright (C) 1998-2003 Symantec Corp. All rights reserved.

C:\Program\Symantec\NORTON~1>
 

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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #12 - Sep 29th, 2010 at 5:25am
 
So, that's a workaround, then, of some sort, that either you or others have devised? (Since you started the procedure with no Ghost 2003 Windows program installed). I was under the impression that, in order to make a Build 793 bootdisk with all the necessary files on it, it had to be done using the wizard in the genuine Ghost 2003 program. Seems that's not the case. Or have I misunderstood again?

So, having gone through that procedure and verified that you've now got Build 793, what are you actually left with, as a means for making a bootable Ghost 2003 floppy or a CD? You say you started off with no Symantec program on your hard drive at all.

Are you sufficiently confident of the means you've now derived to immediately make an image of a partition or a complete drive and then restore it? Obviously, that'll be the acid test to find out if there are any bugs in it.

BTW, do you recall the business of Ghost 2003 marking the drive(s) prior to running? An advisory Symantec 'pop-up' occurs when you first run Ghost in either Windows or PC-DOS mode on a new machine. In response to the Symantec pop-up, I've always agreed to the drive(s) being marked. It's just that I've been wondering whether agreeing to that might possibly prevent operation on a later, different HDD. Must say, I wouldn't have thought so, as it'd be a daft strategy to prevent further usage in that way when people so often have to replace faulty HDDs or wish to upgrade their computers.
 
 
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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #13 - Sep 29th, 2010 at 5:50am
 
Quote:
Or have I misunderstood again?

I don't know if it's repetitive ... Wink ... but yes, you have misunderstood.

I'm under the impression that you, like myself, will take the installation of the new system from square one, a fresh installation.

The first Symantec application to be installed will install its bundled version of Live Update. The next Symantec application will possibly update to a more recent version but if you start by installing the most recent version of Live Update, that will not happen. Also, I'm not 100% certain that the version of Live Update bundled with Norton Ghost 2003 will work with the archive server.

After Live Update has been installed and configured, you install Norton Ghost 2003. How else would you be able to update it?
 

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Re: What's current status of Build 793 and use with SATA HDDs?
Reply #14 - Sep 29th, 2010 at 5:56am
 
Quote:
BTW, do you recall the business of Ghost 2003 marking the drive(s) prior to running? An advisory Symantec 'pop-up' occurs when you first run Ghost in either Windows or PC-DOS mode on a new machine. In response to the Symantec pop-up, I've always agreed to the drive(s) being marked. It's just that I've been wondering whether agreeing to that might possibly prevent operation on a later, different HDD. Must say, I wouldn't have thought so, as it'd be a daft strategy to prevent further usage in that way when people so often have to replace faulty HDDs or wish to upgrade their computers.

I have always let Ghost mark my drives. I don't know what the significance might be but I believe that the main objective is to make you feel bad if you use Ghost from a floppy "outside" the terms of the license.
 

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