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FAT32 not visible in DOS (Read 23274 times)
Brian
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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #30 - Feb 13th, 2011 at 12:31am
 
Brandon,

You have cloned MO1 to MO2. When you try to boot MO2 it is probably MO1 that is booting.

That's explained in Dan's web site.
 
 
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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #31 - Feb 13th, 2011 at 1:11am
 
That is a great nudge in the right direction. I am becoming aware of a certain gap in my awareness of what it takes to get a multi boot up and running. I edit my boot.ini manually but really, that's as far I see. I know that c:(system) means somehow all the windows installs are tied to that drive so DO NOT format it. Thank you so much for your suggestion. I do want to get on top of this and know it cant be
that
complicated but where to start... where to start.

I will gladly look in to your links above. At a more relaxed pace though. When it comes time to replace my current setup I will hopefully know how get the new installations going in a true multiboot fashion.(probly around the same time I buy another 500 GB drive.)

I will also take some time to digest what just happened. That was a lot of stuff I had never seen before. Shocked My system is setting up well now so I better stop tweaking it as spring work is just around the corner. This project has progressed through multiple stages over the last couple weeks and pretty much consumed my time.

I do have a bit of a mystery on my lap right now though. When I cloned MO1 to the MO2 partition I did not at first notice IFD cloned the actual partition and not just the contents like ghost used to. It resized MO2 to 4.11GB and named it MO1, leaving 800MB free. Not exactly what I was aiming for. These tools are a lot more powerful than my old set and that is not surprising for my first step up to bat. I am hoping it was the result of a setting I chose. Not too worried about it though, that's what the extra boots are for, messing them up! Poke poke, aww it broke. Reset!

 

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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #32 - Feb 13th, 2011 at 1:26am
 
Brandon,

When you are ready I'd follow Dan's advice. Delete both Windows partitions and install a new WinXP into a primary partition. You can keep your DOS partition and most of your extended partition.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/index.htm

See.... Installing Windows XP to its Own Primary Partition and

Creating and Booting a second copy of Windows XP

We didn't discuss cloning from BING. It is so easy.

schmirk wrote on Feb 13th, 2011 at 1:11am:
It resized MO2 to 4.11GB

That is done by default as MO1 was 4.11 GB but you can change the size in the last IFD window. I guess you wanted it to be 4.89 GB. You can resize it in BootIt BM if you would like it to be 4.89 GB.
 
 
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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #33 - Feb 13th, 2011 at 1:36pm
 
I have the luxury of a laptop for regular use if things go sideways. I am set up well for experimentation and learning. Thank you for all the great links. Time to dig in for a while. Hey, I will post back some time with the new developments/questions when I start to implement. Perhaps glean some more wisdom from a Rad critique or two.

But first I'd like to absorb some of the info you have headed me towards. If you have any more links for general info that would fill out my upcoming study I am all eyes. Seems you guys have a good perspective now of where I'm heading.

...adding a linux boot is on my must do list but I am sure I will come across that in the reading I am heading in to.
 

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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #34 - Feb 13th, 2011 at 1:47pm
 
Most of us cut our teeth on Dan's website. Understand that information before you start.

schmirk wrote on Feb 13th, 2011 at 1:36pm:
..adding a linux boot is on my must do list

For an Ubuntu install...

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=279


 
 
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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #35 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 9:43am
 
@
schmirk

Well, looks like you have *moved on* to different software while I was away--but, this thread still contains *issues* that I wish to comment on--maybe the other *players* will come back and respond.

From you reply #2:

Quote:
DOS is Win98 4.10.2222. In the past I did a similar layout on a smaller/older drive which worked no prob.

What size HDD was that?

From your reply #6:

Quote:
Edit:RE the PARTINFO someone mentioned the GH1 partition is formatted DOS 5 yet I am running DOS 7 on C:...

Maybe I'm missing the post with that comment....but I can't find where that was mentioned. I suspect there must have been some behind the scene PM (private messaging) going on. (As an editorial note--I dislike PMs when it comes to ongoing thread discussions--it often creates disjointed thread comments, and one can not follow very well what's going on--off my soap box!)

Quote:
DiskCheckup shows no errors in the SMART attributes but thought Id throw this on in case there is any usefull info. Drive letters have changed since this reading.

Device ID: 1
Device Capacity: 16889331826771721 MB
Serial Number: WD-WCASY9555336
Model Number: WDC WD5000AAKB-00H8A0
Firmware Revision: 05.04E05

What program is that?! Is it running from DOS or from inside Windows? Those kinds of results should make one pause and wonder why this is being reported for your HDD on this system!

From you reply #9:

Quote:
Ghost 2002 (not sure why I thought it was Ghost 4)

Okay. Ghost 2002 should be able to see your NTFS partitions as *sources* for creating a Ghost backup image--but it was not until Ghost 2003 that NTFS partitions could be used as a *destination* for saving a Ghost backup image to.

So, my question is....did the NTFS partitions show up in DOS Ghost 2002 as possible *sources* (did you even look?--I know you where attempting to use the DOS partition on the 500 GB HDD as a *destination*--so maybe you didn't)--most likely they should have been listed as 2:1 and 2:2?

I have some more comments to make on other various replies, but time will not permit for the moment......

But, as a general comment--I know you have moved on to using other software that apparently *works around* whatever basic problem you have been experiencing with your 500 GB HDD--but, I would be constantly *looking over my shoulder* going forward. Especially when using any type of HDD utility, who knows when a non-compatible interaction is going to suddenly occur!

To be continued.....
 

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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #36 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 3:14pm
 
@
NightOwl

Just to summarize...

PartInfo from DOS
Partition Magic from a boot disk
BootIt NG

Saw no partitions on that HD.
I assume Ghost saw no partitions either but Brandon will know.

I wonder whether a different 500 GB HD would behave the same way if it was substituted.
 
 
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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #37 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 10:07pm
 
NightOwl. Hey man wheredya go?
Quote:
What size HDD was that?
That setup was 250GB disk 0 and 160 GB disk 1 with the ghost logical partition at the back of it.

Quote:
Maybe I'm missing the post with that comment....but I can't find where that was mentioned.
No PMing. I started this quest on other threads. Was not getting much response but as things started here one other thread piped up with that point. As both threads were young I relayed info to help the people who were thinking. Wasn't long 'til the Rad crew stole the show and I bowed out elsewhere.

Quote:
What program is that?!
DiskCheckup. Found it in my archives and decided to play with it. That is a weird read. It runs in XP. Maybe I will follow Dan's suggestion and use WDs diagnostics on the drive as XP has a proper read on the drive's capacity. I also wouldn't doubt DiskCheckup may be tweaky or out of date.

Quote:
did the NTFS partitions show up in DOS Ghost 2002 as possible *sources*
Ya, I have been imaging my MO1... 2..3 partitions for some time with G2002 on the old smaller drives. More recently imaging to the GH2 partition on the same drive with a laborious front of drive to back process. When I put the 500g in last year and tried drive0 to drive1 I could no longer see GH1. It payed off to have a back up, back up partition!

Quote:
I know you have moved on to using other software that apparently *works around* whatever basic problem you have been experiencing with your 500 GB HDD--but, I would be constantly *looking over my shoulder* going forward.
Looking at where I am coming from, it is like I've been keeping the blinders on as everything else moved forward. I set up this system near 10 years ago(900mhz, 256MB RAM, 20GB HDD) following the Rad guides and it was THAT stable that I did not need any changes, just upgrade the hardware and beef up the capacity occasionally. I 'am' over my shoulder, time to move forward. But I heed your words, I am stepping out of something that has worked without any debilitating hangups(til now), without requiring a masters degree in HDD technology, for near a decade.

I am the type to fiddle with things until I find their limit rather than dump it for new expensive stuff. The only thing left for this system to upgrade is the storage capacity. And of course, there is always OS optimization. Still plenty of work to be done on this rig.

I appreciate ghost2002 for working so well over the years and this is the first time it has not worked. Not even ghost's fault, ( ? ) either the DOS I am running it on or the BIOS itself has an invisible drive size barrier or ... the HDD is to blame.

Now curiosity is getting the better of me. I will do the WD diag and post the results.

Presently I am experimenting with IFD and preparing for a study of the info on Dan's site. Then Terabyte's.

Brian
Quote:
I wonder whether a different 500 GB HD would behave the same way if it was substituted.
I'm sure we will know by mid summer Wink
 

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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #38 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 10:19pm
 
schmirk wrote on Feb 10th, 2011 at 12:56am:
the PARTINFO someone mentioned the GH1 partition is formatted DOS 5 yet I am running DOS 7 on C:...

NightOwl, this is in Reply #6.

Edit... I think the "someone" was on another forum.
 
 
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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #39 - Feb 16th, 2011 at 10:52am
 
@
schmirk

Quote:
No PMing. I started this quest on other threads. Was not getting much response but as things started here one other thread piped up with that point.

*Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea mxima culpa*--my bad Embarrassed ! Thanks for the clarification.

Quote:
I am the type to fiddle with things until I find their limit rather than dump it for new expensive stuff.

Ah, a person after my own heart! I tend to do the same thing--I have a 2002 system that I have nursed along for years. I have the same WinXP install running since about 2003 without re-formatting and re-installing the OS--which so many seem to recommend every year or two to do--I loath that idea. But, that system became *flaky* and essentially *died* last April, 2010--turned out to be bad capacitors which were failing. I just recently had the motherboard repaired and it's up and running again. I've had to do some repairs to the WinXP registry and other software fixes because the bad capacitors caused random Blue Screens of Death (BSOD) with corruption of the software on the HDDs as a result (I plan on starting a new thread about my experiences with this process--some might find it interesting!).

Quote:
I appreciate ghost2002 for working so well over the years and this is the first time it has not worked. Not even ghost's fault, ( ? ) either the DOS I am running it on or the BIOS itself has an invisible drive size barrier or ... the HDD is to blame.

I bet the HDD is fine and not to blame! And, because all the other DOS programs are having problems--again I'm betting that Ghost 2002 is also not to blame! I think, given that your system dates to 2002, even though in theory the BIOS may be able to work with HDDs greater than 250 GB in Windows--somewhere in the inner workings, the motherboard engineers *missed* something when it comes to booting to DOS and using larger HDDs. You have *found a bug* in your motherboard's implementation to use larger HDDs--and it will never be addressed and fixed at this point!

Quote:
The only thing left for this system to upgrade is the storage capacity.

Well, you know that a 250 GB HDD works. You could try a 320 GB HDD for a reasonable price. Or just stick with 250 GB HDDs. If you have 4-250 GB HDDs on your system--that's a lot of capacity for a system that started back in 2002!

Quote:
Quote:

did the NTFS partitions show up in DOS Ghost 2002 as possible *sources*

Ya, I have been imaging my MO1... 2..3 partitions for some time with G2002 on the old smaller drives. More recently imaging to the GH2 partition on the same drive with a laborious front of drive to back process. When I put the 500g in last year and tried drive0 to drive1 I could no longer see GH1.

Not sure I have an answer here to my question--with the new 500 GB HDD installed, and booted to 2002 Ghost--did the first two partitions (the NTFS partitions) on the 500 GB HDD show up in Ghost as 2:1 and 2:2 ? You have always stated that the *DOS partition at the end of the 500 GB HDD did not show*--but how about the two NTFS partitions at the beginning of the HDD?

Quote:
Brian
Quote:

I wonder whether a different 500 GB HD would behave the same way if it was substituted.

I'm sure we will know by mid summer

You're planning on getting another 500 GB HDD? Same brand? My *gut feeling* is a different 500 GB HDD of the same or different brand will behave the same! I just don't see the HDD as being *at fault* here! But, you never know until you try!

Quote:
The only thing left for this system to upgrade is the storage capacity.

Actually, you could possibly move forward by adding a SATA II RAID PCI Card . I did something like this for my first PC--an IBM PS/1 back in the mid-1990's. The PCI card's BIOS inserts itself and *works around* the motherboard's BIOS and any limitations that might be there (there can be *compatibility issues to deal with--and may have to *disable* one or both motherboard HDD controllers--I had to fiddle until it all worked!)! Or Ultra U12-40626 PCI Expansion Card - 2 Internal IDE/PATA Ports . They don't say what the HDD capacity that is supported--might have to contact the company and ask.

You mentioned in your reply #6:

Quote:
USB 1.0 Tongue Slow...

You could add something like a IOGEAR GIC250U 5-Port USB 2.0 PCI Card (USB 2.0) to improve you USB use!

Just *food for thought*--I'm not recommending these particular items--I have no personal experience with these--just examples of what you could consider!

I have more to come later....!


 

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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #40 - Feb 16th, 2011 at 3:01pm
 
Quote:
I bet the HDD is fine and not to blame!
WD Diagnostics reports no errors. It happily churned away for 2hrs on that drive from within the 'no drive access' DOS boot. Assumption that it used its own BIOS(direct) type access.

Quote:
You have always stated that the *DOS partition at the end of the 500 GB HDD did not show*--but how about the two NTFS partitions at the beginning of the HDD?
I thought I covered that but ya, with no intention of using those large partitions with ghost I might not have specified. The entire 500g drive is declared 'unallocated' with no trace of any partitions by DOS programs that do not have their own disk access technology.

So far, I am quite happy with the trials I have done using Terabyte's products. At present the only one I 'require' is IFD doing imaging/cloning to the large drive via BIOS(direct) but in future will probly be partitioning another drive via BootIt BM to follow Dan's advice not to use PM8 from within XP.

Also, for now I will keep things simple and not take on new technology with Sata Raid or xtraIDE PCI cards. Great idea on the USB 2.0 PCI card NightOwl. That would be awesome.

In IFD I still did not learn how to clone/image data only without cloning partition size(Reply #31) but that is just me poking around, haven't read the guides yet. If I am cloning into unallocated space then I get to choose the new partition's size. But every time I need to regress to the 'mother' image the same issue will arise. So I have made all OS partitions the same size.

Packaging this project up as my tech time is drawing to a close. I now have a three XP system with one original install. Each OS is its own entity without cross boot config issues.

Now to read Dan's guides and learn the weaknesses in this setup.
 

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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #41 - Feb 16th, 2011 at 3:49pm
 
schmirk wrote on Feb 16th, 2011 at 3:01pm:
n IFD I still did not learn how to clone/image data only without cloning partition size

Brandon,

On the Options window (second last window in the IFD sequence) there is a Resize Partition field. This is present and usable whether you restore into a partition or into unallocated space. If you don't use this field the image restores to the same size as the source partition.

If you restore a Whole Drive image you don't get the Resize option but I don't think you are using Whole Drive images.

Any questions?
 
 
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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #42 - Feb 18th, 2011 at 8:01pm
 
Thanks Brian, I see it now. The blank field with the min and max sizes on either side. Probly would have noticed if IFD pre-filled in the default value but I was assuming the receiving partition would be left alone by default.

Had a good read over at Dan's site. It is good to know more about the steps of the boot process, like exactly what MS is doing with the PBR on that c: drive. I like my setup for now but will be looking forward to a more robust multiboot with linux and other experimental technologies I might learn about while I wait.

Also, that is a pretty specific and involved guide for installing Ubuntu over on the Terabyte site. Will be sure to re-read that as part of my prep materials for my next tech season. As for now its time to get outside and get the garden tuned up before spring business sets in.

You all have been a great help and I really appreciate it.

Rad on!
 

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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #43 - Feb 20th, 2011 at 9:11am
 
@
schmirk

Quote:
for now I will keep things simple and not take on new technology with Sata Raid or xtraIDE PCI cards

Just to be clear--you can add HDDs to those cards as simple single HDDs--you do not have to create a RAID array--it's just an option.

Quote:
Packaging this project up as my tech time is drawing to a close.

Sorry if we are going to *loose* you--be sure to come back any time to visit and share!

I am going to post one or more posts regarding some of yours and other's previous information that I did not understand. If you happen to have the time to contribute or clarify--please do.

Quote:
You all have been a great help and I really appreciate it.

It's been a pleasure!
 

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Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #44 - Feb 20th, 2011 at 10:07am
 
@
Dan Goodell

Quote:
Just to add my two cents to the discussion . . .

You're too modest! I think you're probably adding *16 billion terabytes* worth of *sense* to the discussion!

Quote:
Device ID: 1
Device Capacity: 16889331826771721 MB
Serial Number: WD-WCASY9555336
Model Number: WDC WD5000AAKB-00H8A0
Firmware Revision: 05.04E05
Partitions:
J: 213998 MB
Q: 244998 MB
R: 17924 MB

etc.


I can't speak for others, but with many of these HDD reports showing the details--my mind turns to *mush* and I just fail to focus on the meaning of the numbers! But when you point out the details--of course, it's so *obvious*--but, I sure couldn't *see* it!

Quote:
Reply #9: "Ghost 2002"
Just as an aside, in other threads we've determined Ghost 2003 had a disk size limit around 1TB, so does anyone know what Ghost 2002's limit is? schmirk's problem occurs irrespective of Ghost, so there's obviously something else going on, but I wonder if the Ghost version will also ultimately be a factor.

I can not recall ever seeing any reports regarding Ghost 2002 and its HDD size limit.

Quote:
Reply #9: "I am aware of the process and would use PM8 in XP..."
Yikes!! Never use PM8 from Windows! That's asking for trouble. It's a great utility when used from DOS, but never use it from Windows.

Hmmmm....I've used PM8 regularly in Windows....knowing that there were possible issues--but, I have to say in its defense--I've never had a bad result!!! I always create a Ghost backup image before doing anything significant! And, I've never done anything to my active OS HDD--it's always been HDDs that are secondary or on other secondary controllers. Have always booted to DOS PM8 (and earlier versions) for anything to do with the active OS HDD--but still make backup images before using it, even in DOS!

Quote:
After all, the BIOS is using 240 heads, so we know it's not a standard BIOS.

I have questions regarding this statement--but, in another post that's forthcoming!

Quote:
It might also be helpful to know exactly how (what tools) you created and formatted the partitions on the 500GB disk. You mentioned "the reformat is still young", which I assume means the exact procedure will still be fresh in your mind.

Did we get an answer to this? I'll have to continue reading the replies to see--was it PM8?! And, was the same tool used for all formatting and partitioning--there seems to be reports of different *head* counts depending on the HDD--how is that possible on the same system--if using the same tools.........?????? More on that in that forthcoming post!



 

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